April 24, 2009

Last go-round at Talking Points Memo

I've got one last post up at Talking Points Memo Cafe, on how McCain's lack of sophisticated understanding of the Hispanic vote betrayed him. You can follow the discussion here.

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

37 comments:

Anonymous said...

Steve Sailer, you are a vile racist, homophobe, eugenicist, Nazi and anti-Semite and I can't believe it's still legal for you to walk around in your jackboots and SS uniform. Why do you like Hitler so much?

--Senor Doug

Anonymous said...

Apparently, those commenting at TPM and accusing you of being a crazed racist Nazi believe that you are posing as a "sock" and leaving comments defending you against them.

My Pseudonym said...

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner."

Oh come on, Steve - please tell me that you're not gonna institute the same censorship nonsense over there that you force on us over here.

G*d d*mn it.

steve burton said...

The really appalling thread over there is this one:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/jade7243/2009/04/steve-sailer-a-contemporary-ra.php

Aggressive ignorance, parading in all its glory.

What's the point in even pretending that meaningful intellectual engagement is even possible, there?

Lover of Wisdom said...

I for one, Steve, appreciate your efforts at TPM. I'm actually getting a better handle on Affordable Family Formation because of those posts.

Anonymous said...

As a liberal who enjoys your writing even while taking strong exception to some of your racial views, I was pleasantly surprised by the largely respectful reception you got at TPM-- it was really only a handful of people who got bent out of shape. And it speaks well of Josh Marshall's fair-mindedness that he gave you a forum there, even knowing how radioactive you are in liberal circles (though one suspects a lot more read you than will admit it.)

rob said...

Steve, you should look for an "enemy" crazier than you and further to the right, whom you can condemn for mainstream acceptance. I suggest Chris Brand.

Then you can be all like 'I recognize some of the same things as being true, but I'm not a crazy nutjob. So you can accept that true things are true and not be a nutjob too.'

You already have the 'I make better predictions' thing going on. But that doesn't seem to give lots of political street cred on its own.

I'm very surprised you got a TPM gig. I wonder if the left is getting scared of tea partiers being the tip of productive class revolt.

One can find Pandagon threads condemning white flight for both being racist and depriving African-Americans of jobs, leading to decaying infrastructure in black areas. One can also find Pandagon threads deriding people for talking about "going Galt." They never connect the dots, at least in public.

White flight is going Galt. Of course no one calls it going Galt, cuz Randroids are retards, and by and large aren't the productive, make things work class.

The Wobbly Guy said...

Before we start solving problems, we have to know what the problem is. Too much PC stands in the way of identifying problems accurately.

The easiest example is education. How the heck can we address the achievement gap between the different races if we didn't acknowledge the existence of a gap in the first place?!?

Thank you so much, Steve, for telling the situation as it is.

Cody said...

The most humorous aspect of this exchange is the commenters that would post comments in each thread reminding the readers just how much of an evil racist Sailer is.

Totally hysterical.

Roger Chaillet said...

Anonymous forgot xenophobic.

Let's give credit where credit is due.

Nice to be mau maued, eh, Steve?

rob said...

I'm gonna try my testing99 magic.

Testy, have you ever, even just once, posted under the handle 'evil neocon'? Do you think speedboat invasions are plausible?

Since Gays, Women, The Pill, Condoms, and Arabs are responsible for most of what's wrong with the world, would the most dangerous thing imaginable be a Gay, Arab Woman who uses The Pill and hands out Condoms?

Sideways said...

Oh come on, Steve - please tell me that you're not gonna institute the same censorship nonsense over there that you force on us over here.To humor an idiot, Steve's comment moderating policy was enacted to block the comments of a WHITE CHRISTIAN MALE nationalist [ok, I'm speculating, but he's the only poster ever banned from what I can tell. Capitalization his.)

Soul Searcher said...

When I was a kid, I used to sincerely believe that "racism" was a term used to censure incorrect racial stereotypes. It wasn't so much about exactly what you said, but more about the truth of that content, with appropriate statistical caveats if need be.

Boy, have I learned a thing or too.

It is also revealing to note that Jade whats-her-face appears to be a blogger "of color". Par for the course, she will receive no rebuke from the complicit despite her obvious ad-hominem comments. Ironically, those very same hysterics might actually be helpful in the long run!

The tenor of TPM discussion caters well to haughty intellectualism that elite liberals love to style. I'm sure there are plenty of authentically progressive readers of TPM who could smear Sailer in their far more sophisticated way, offhandedly referring to biased proxies like Media Matters or pulling out irrelevant statistics, but the bald weakness and neo-Stalinism of her wailing has got to bother those proudly held intellectual sensibilities - like, "gosh, does she have to be so obvious?"

One can only marvel at the awesome talismanic power of the word when she asks Gelman in a pointed sentence, whether or not he is aware of "Sailer's racist views". That's the only adjective present, but it's expectantly invoked to immediately end all discussion right there and then.

Indeed, I hope that some of what of Sailer and other evo-conservatives are doing becomes a mainstream movement within conservatism itself. You can no longer engage the left in general with the old emotional appeals, using familiar words like "patriotism", "duty", and importantly, "citizen". No, instead, they consider their primitive emotionalism a badge of honor, self-evidently superior to any sort of rational thinking. If you aren't feeling, then you aren't living, never mind worth listening to. And then there's the added sweetener that this debasement of reasoned debate only increases their electoral success, given their prominent role in the Dumbo-fication via immigration of the American population.

HateFacts, HateGraphs and HateStatistics are alot harder for the left to tangle with though. The teeming proles amongst them care little for such nonsense, but confronted with the reams of Sailer's resolute data those same elites are forced to reconcile their competing self-images of being both discerning yet compassionate. The unassuming correlations of the IQ debate and the neat clustering of racial allele frequencies could do more for our politics than continuing to futilely dash our heads against the rock in assuming their penchant for the ritual Oprahfication of discourse (e.g., compassionate conservatism). These facts also have a nasty habit of continuously and inconveniently reasserting themselves. Conservatives, at least at the moment, have the better weapon available on their side.

Anonymous said...

Steve,
Please ask Cochran or Ewald about this swine/human/bird flu and see if it is much ado about nothing.

DO NOT READ THIS said...

Look. If you really want to spoil the fun of the "anti-racists" over at TPM, go and click on the ads. (Only one! If you click on more than one, the ad algorithm may notice that something fishy is going on and block payment). TPM will find it hard not to notice the spike in revenue after hosting Sailer. You can even add an additional layer of subversion to the fun by clicking on the ads of companies you don’t like.

Anti-anti-racism can be such a hoot!

Mencius Moldbug said...

Steve,

Please consider denouncing me instead of Chris Brand. If needed, I can provide my own juicy out-of-context quotes. It shouldn't be hard, though.

In case an conflict is needed: your views on the Jews are totally wrong. Would it be possible to provide an alternate interface to iSteve, which would display only neutral and pro-Jew posts? Or how about an iSteve profile of the world's greatest Jew politician (but I repeat myself) - Moshe Feiglin, the thinking man's Avigdor Lieberman?

Also, please don't apply CamelCase to hatefacts, hategraphs, etc. It was Carter van Carter who deleted Guzzardi's space, creating this glorious neologism - an achievement not to be toyed with.

Anonymous said...

So now when are you going to get into the debate over student admissions to UC? The press has it that Asians in California are screaming bloody murder.

An article I read provided this interesting data:

Asian-Americans...accounted for 40 percent at UCLA and 43 percent at UC Berkeley — the two most selective campuses in the UC system — as well as 50 percent at UC San Diego and 54 percent at UC Irvine.


So at one UC campus Asians were 4.5 times their share of California's population. At Berkeley they were 3.5 times their share.

Meanwhile, a retired Berkeley professor had this to say:

"I like to call it affirmative action for whites," said Ling-chi Wang, a retired professor at UC Berkeley. "I think it's extremely unfair to Asian-Americans on the one hand and underrepresented minorities on the other."


One notes his complete lack of concern for whites. Whites are irrelevant. Whites have nothing to do with this country's very existence.

So I Googled "Ling-chi Wang" and discovered this: he immigrated here in 1957, and was so oppressed that he decided to stay. He founded the Asian Studies Department at Berkeley. He fought for the "civil rights" of accused Chinese spies.

But the real kicker: in the late 1960s he founded a group called "Chinese for Affirmative Action."

Yep, affirmative action must piss him off.

sj071 said...

Your initials are an affront to humanity.

rob said...

Mencius, do you think condemning an anonymous blogger would have as much oomph as someone who uses his real name?

OTOH, the left has made hay of "no enemies to my left." But we don't seem able to do that.

Big Bill said...

@anon: "...though one suspects a lot more [liberals] read you than will admit it."

They are having a harder and harder time avoiding the elephant in front of them. This growing awareness is reflected in the McKinsey report in the NYT which said that "the gap" [in education between whites and blacks/hispanics] causes America to have a much, much lower GNP.

This clearly breaks with the liberal Orthodoxy that peasant immigrants are going to take care of us in our old age and support SS, yet there seemed to be resigned acceptance to that idea in the Replies.

McKinsey did try to sweeten things a bit by blaming the problems on an education "gap" that is "America's" duty to solve.

It would have been more honest to say that blacks and Mexicans are a net dead loss to white America, but McKinsey and the NYT are not there yet.

In fairness, however, McKinsey did say that we p!ss away more money educating minorities than any other country in the world. That is a surprising admission.

The liberal readers of the NYT are getting closer and closer to the painful realities (as are the Europeans) that no one knows how to westernize Third Worlders.

God bless 'em, they are learning, albeit slowly and painfully.

Jade7243 said...

there's a saying out there that "the first person to make a hitler parallel in an argument loses."

i think there is a parallel: "the first person to call another a racist in an argument loses."

Lord Byron said...

I enjoy reading Mencius Moldbug and find much of his writing to be entertaining and insightful.

But it seems that no small part of his energy is devoted to getting paleocons to alter their positions on Israel, American Jewry, etc., to purging Kevin MacDonald once and for all, and to fixing the "views on the Jews" which (apparently) "are totally wrong."

clem said...

Please ask Cochran or Ewald about this swine/human/bird flu and see if it is much ado about nothing."This flu" being the following: Mexico fights swine flu with 'pandemic potential'.

Lucius Vorenus said...

rob: Since Gays, Women, The Pill, Condoms, and Arabs are responsible for most of what's wrong with the world, would the most dangerous thing imaginable be a Gay, Arab Woman who uses The Pill and hands out Condoms?You meant to say "Muslim".

There are plenty of Arab Jews, Arab Christians, Arab Animists, Arab Zoroastrians, Arab Atheists, Arab Agnostics, etc etc etc who don't need to have their names dragged through the mud here.

togo said...

What looks like a promising new race-realist blog:
http://accidentaldissent.wordpress.com/2009/04/23/the-stages-of-racial-realization/

Ronduck said...

The question of why Ted Kennedy would help improve GOP electoral prospects does not appear to have come up much in high GOP deliberations.

You assume that there are even high GOP deliberations, which I don't. The GOP is as about well run as General Motors, and unlike GM there is no Obama to fire the chief executive. Market Research? Yeah Right!

Hispanics tend to be old-fashioned tax and spend Democrats for straightforward economic reasons that Harry Hopkins would have immediately understood. They just don't earn that much money on average. And their elites benefit from affirmative action. So, they are natural Democrats. (Cubans, born-again Protestants, and the affluent are the main exceptions).

Harry Hopkins was appealing to an earlier generation of Catholic Ethnics who also felt alienated and voted Democratic. We haven't assimilated this previous wave of CE's as well as is commonly reported, with the most famous example being the Boston Irish. What are the odds that the Hispanics will follow the same path of alienation, being bought off with welfare/handouts, and finally using the Democratic Party as a vehicle to overturn the previous Republican social order?

In fact, if history is a guide, the remaining natives in an area overwhelmed by Catholic immigration eventually assimilate to the new majority culture, instead of maintaining their own. Howard Dean is a good example of this process of reverse assimilation, having become a rabid Democrat.

josh said...

In case you haven't noticed, Mencius thinks practically everybody's views are wrong. And I don't think he has spent a disproportionate amount of time on the Jewish question, especially considering his commenters and audience.

Ronduck said...

In fact, born-again Mestizos did not vote for McCain. See page four of this PDF to see a chart showing that prior to the election "Latino Protestants" had the following election preferences:

Obama 50.4%
McCain 33.6%
undecided 10.4%

In 2000 Mestizo Protestants voted Democratic too. The fluke year was 2004 when they voted for Dubya. So just like with Blacks, for Mestizos race comes before religion.

Anonymous said...

They are having a harder and harder time avoiding the elephant in front of them. This growing awareness is reflected in the McKinsey report in the NYT which said that "the gap" [in education between whites and blacks/hispanics] causes America to have a much, much lower GNP.

This clearly breaks with the liberal Orthodoxy that peasant immigrants are going to take care of us in our old age and support SS, yet there seemed to be resigned acceptance to that idea in the Replies.

McKinsey did try to sweeten things a bit by blaming the problems on an education "gap" that is "America's" duty to solve.

It would have been more honest to say that blacks and Mexicans are a net dead loss to white America, but McKinsey and the NYT are not there yet.

In fairness, however, McKinsey did say that we p!ss away more money educating minorities than any other country in the world. That is a surprising admission.

The liberal readers of the NYT are getting closer and closer to the painful realities (as are the Europeans) that no one knows how to westernize Third Worlders.

God bless 'em, they are learning, albeit slowly and painfully.
I wonder what the left will do if they ever give up on NAMs.

The left's whole reason for existence is social engineering, but as Derbyshire points out at Secular Right, the evidence coming from the biological sciences confirms social engineering is largely futile.

If social engineering goes the way of flat earth theory, what will the left do to keep itself busy?

Can there even be a "left" in the current sense of the word without social engineering as the reigning orthodoxy?

Will the libs go nuts like pro-HBD lefty Robert Lindsay?

Will they embrace eugenics again like the pre-WWII, social engineering progressives did?

John Seiler said...

In your statement, "McCain's lack of sophisticated understanding of the Hispanic vote betrayed him," the words "of the Hispanic vote" are superfluous.

Anonymous said...

"The liberal readers of the NYT are getting closer and closer to the painful realities (as are the Europeans) that no one knows how to westernize Third Worlders.

God bless 'em, they are learning, albeit slowly and painfully."

They recognize the painful realities and have for years. You'll notice that the SWPL NYT readers very carefully protect their neighborhoods, their childrens' schools, their quality of life, etc.

They like social experiments if and only if they are disrupting and destroying OTHER peoples' lives. Needless to say these other people are usually middle/working class people without the resources to avoid the consequences of these social experiments.

Remember court-ordered bussing? Name one instance in which the friends and family of the "court" that "ordered" the bussing were affected.

Back during that time Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall was asked how he justified placing his children in private school. He replied that he refused to apologize for looking out for the best interests of his children. Period.

Nobody is justified in stoning a bus full of frightened children, but for every person who got famous during the six o'clock news by being an idiot, thousands simply "voted with their feet" by moving away from the affected area. It was called white flight and those who did it were called racists.

How was what they did any different from what SCJ Marshall did? Weren't they looking out for the best interests of their children?

When you hear racist, xenophobe, etc emanating from the SWPL MSM what you are actually hearing is "Shut up and let us conduct our experiments on you. And SMILE while we're doing it."

rob said...

Lucius,

Don't be so critical. It's only testing99 repellent. And it works.

If you like t99, well perhaps we can force him to have a new idea, rather than repeating the old one ad infinitum.

Anonymous said...

The tenor of TPM discussion caters well to haughty intellectualism that elite liberals love to style.

I often visualize these types reclining on a couch wearing a silk smoking jacket dismissing inconvenient arguments & facts in the manner of Noel Coward dismissing a tiresome bore with a flick of his cigarette holder.

The impression they work at is that all the debates over HBD, nationality, immigration etc have all been had and won comprehensively (by them).

"Go over those trivial debates now? Far too tiresome old boy, another G&T?"

Its essential that these victories remain tantalizingly just off-stage in darkness. Every good liberal just knows they are there somewhere, how could any rational person disagree? Paradoxically this only makes their belief in these battles fought and won all the stronger.

Anonymous said...

If you like t99, well perhaps we can force him to have a new idea, rather than repeating the old one ad infinitum.The poor guy's already experienced one such paradigm shift. While John McCain was in South Carolina pissing off white working class voters, t99 paused long enough from telling us what a sharp guy McCain was and poring over satellite photos of Iran to exclaim, "Jee-hosophat, somebody let a bunch of HISPANICS in here! And they're NOT VOTING FOR JOHN MCCAIN!"

Maybe, like Susan Crain Bakos, he just needs to get mugged by a black guy. Then he'll rush to the computer and start typing, "I have just found out that virtually all major urban areas of the US have large contingents of low IQ, high-T ethno-nationalists whose only occupation is parasitism and criminal activity! Something must be done soon or white people of a contemplative nature will be unable to take midnight walks in downtown areas!"

--Senor Doug

Anonymous said...

Ive been to TPM. Its grim.

The commenters there seem to think that the nano-talented Jade is some kind of top notch crusading journalist.

Talk about poverty of imagination.

Many of them praise her for her ferreting out the news that Steve is a 'racist'. They dont seem to have noticed that Steve has his own site and they could just read for themselves. Apparently its necessary of various 3rd party organisations to decide whether Steve is an unperson or not and then Jade posts these findings and her followers then have their opinion handed to them.

Laughable.

My Pseudonym said...

Senor Doug: Maybe, like Susan Crain Bakos, he just needs to get mugged by a black guy. Then he'll rush to the computer and start typing, "I have just found out that virtually all major urban areas of the US have large contingents of low IQ, high-T ethno-nationalists whose only occupation is parasitism and criminal activity! Something must be done soon or white people of a contemplative nature will be unable to take midnight walks in downtown areas!"

And yet you censor my stuff?

Jesus T-F'ing Christ there is no justice.

Truth said...

"There are plenty of Arab Jews, Arab Christians, Arab Animists, Arab Zoroastrians, Arab Atheists, Arab Agnostics, etc etc etc who don't need to have their names dragged through the mud here."

Appreciate the political correctness there, Gloria Allred.

"I have just found out that virtually all major urban areas of the US have large contingents of low IQ, high-T ethno-nationalists whose only occupation is parasitism and criminal activity!"

She wasn't mugged on Wall Street.