August 20, 2009

NYT Mag Ethicist: OK to cheat goyim to punish lack of diversity awareness

Randy Cohen, who writes "The Ethicist" column for the New York Times Sunday Magazine is the gift that keeps on giving. C. Van Carter of Across Difficult Country points in a comment to Cohen's April 13, 2008 entry:

Years ago in Seattle I worked for an insurance company with just one Jewish employee, a good friend. He invented Jewish holidays, taking days off several times a year. As the only other employee at all familiar with Judaism, I could have finked on him or kept silent and been disloyal to my employer. I kept silent. Was that the right choice? — WALTER HENRY, DOWNEY, CALIF.

It was an acceptable choice. ... This is not to justify your friend’s actions. He lied to his boss and burdened his co-workers, who presumably filled in for him while he was out cavorting.

So says my head . . . but my heart says mazel tov! This imaginative scheme imposed a tax on ignorance, penalizing an employer for lacking even a cursory grasp of a world religion’s holidays. Such a plan could encourage all of us in our diverse, immigrant nation to learn more about our neighbors, or reward them with extra vacation time if we cling to our provincialism. Diwali — real or imaginary?

I do have some sympathy for your boss. When I was growing up, autumn’s Jewish holidays seemed to occur in such rapid succession that I half suspected our rabbi of inventing them to qualify for some kind of bonus.

Send your queries to ethicist@nytimes.com or The Ethicist, The New York Times Magazine, 620 Eighth Avenue, 6th Floor, New York, NY 10018, and include a daytime phone number.

Something that has changed over my lifetime is the decline of "Is it bad for the Jews" thinking on the part of Jews about the behavior of other Jews. While "Is it good for the Jews" thinking by Jews about the behavior of non-Jews is going strong, the urge among Jews to chastise other Jews for bad behavior that might offend non-Jews has gotten rarer and rarer. (You can occasionally find manifestations in Jewish publications such as The Forward.)

You might think that Randy Cohen would have written something like, "To my fellow Jews: please do not cheat non-Jews (or Jews, either); especially, do not play tricks that call attention to your Jewishness. It's bad for the Jews." But, fewer and fewer Jews worry about other Jews making a bad impression anymore.

Here's an exception that validates the tendency: I vaguely recall a minor incident from early in this decade in which some British journalist (perhaps Toby Young?) was complaining because the New York Times had censored some phrase of his, such as "for Christ's sake" or something like that. The NYT copyeditor explained to him, roughly, "The New York Times is a Jewish-owned newspaper in a mostly Christian country. Thus, the copyediting policy of the New York Times is to not treat the name of Jesus Christ with casual disrespect."

I thought to myself, "Wow, that's really old-fashioned. You don't see much of that kind of thinking anymore." Of course, copyediting is a bastion of traditionalism.

That kind of prudence-based respect is largely gone. What you see now is a fair amount of public expression of Jewish anxiety about right-wing Christians coming after them with pitchforks and torches and such, but, the psychology is 180 degrees different from the copyeditor's. The people claiming to be terrified of being oppressed by Christians aren't acting like they are. Indeed, they act as if they hold their putative oppressors in contempt for being weak.

The simplest explanation for this sizable change is that Jews in America have gone from being the underdogs to the overdogs. But nobody is supposed to mention this historic shift in public.

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

115 comments:

Anonymous said...

I remember working in Montreal where my Jewish co-workers assiduously took off on Jewish holidays. Of course, the ALSO took all other (Catholic) holidays, even those that were not statutory (legal) holidays.
I jokingly inquired about this to management, and was my met with shrugs and upturned palms, and a 'you KNOW we can't do anything about it'.

Udolpho.com said...

I've oftened wondered why certain Jews seem to bear such overwhelming hostility for a country and its people that have been far more hospitable to them than any other place on Earth. It's almost as if they hold us in contempt for not hating them.

SFG said...

I have to say, if I had Jewish employees pulling this crap I'd probably crack down on them...

SFG said...

"I've oftened wondered why certain Jews seem to bear such overwhelming hostility for a country and its people that have been far more hospitable to them than any other place on Earth."

Overwhelming hostility? He's stealing extra vacation days. There are mortal sins (Rosenbergs), and there are venial sins.

As for Jewish anti-Americanism: it's more that they're afraid of nationalism because of what happened in (you guessed it) Germany.

Anonymous said...

As for Jewish anti-Americanism: it's more that they're afraid of nationalism because of what happened in (you guessed it) Germany.




Perhaps that is the case. If so it just shows what I've long said - that Jews are not really all that bright.

Simon said...

I find American Jewish anti-Americanism pretty weird. British Jews show no more anti-Britishness than non-Jews do - less, if anything, they tend to be genuinely conservative and patriotic.

Jon Stewart and his writers came to London once for a one-off performance. They hadn't bothered to prepare properly and were very bad. The audience was mostly expat Americans, minor celebrities, and some ordinary Brits. A Brit in the audience gave them some friendly ribbing, very mild.

The look on Stewart's face was priceless, he looked like he thought we were about to come after him with torches and pitchforks.

I felt that whole experience gave me some insight into the mindset of the New York Jewish elite.

Anonymous said...

Overwhelming hostility? He's stealing extra vacation days.




I think the reaction was to the contempt expressed by Cohen for non-Jews, rather than the stealing of the holidays. A stealing of which Cohen approved, in case you missed it. And these are the people who presume to give moral instruction to the world.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if Muslims, Christians, and other religions get away with stuff like this in Israel and if Christian newspaper columnists in Israel advise religious minorities to stick it to the man in the same type of way. I mean a country like Israel made up mostly of Jewish people has got to be BY FAR the most liberal country in the world, especially when it comes to its minorities. Right??? The rest of us with our out-dated desires to retain our culture, customs, and holidays in a safe demographic majority are just provincial clowns, backward hicks, and downright evil racists.

Anonymous said...

Were they paid holidays?

Disposable Identity said...

"Overwhelming hostility? He's stealing extra vacation days. There are mortal sins (Rosenbergs), and there are venial sins."

And the so called Ethicist is rubber stamping this kind of theft with a line of reasoning that is equal parts smug and clueless. If you can explain this away, based on anything other than hostility and contempt, please do. Until then I'm inclined to favor Udolpho's point of view.

Chris said...

Are there any professional ethicists that are not Jewish?

Anonymous said...

Overwhelming hostility? He's stealing extra vacation days.

The "He" in question is not the Jewish worker but rather the Jewish social theorist who is trying to lay the "ethical" foundation for sanctioning [and encouraging] the behavior.

As for Jewish anti-Americanism: it's more that they're afraid of nationalism because of what happened in (you guessed it) Germany.

Name me a single Jew who opposed Marxism ["Socialism", "Anarchism", "Nihilism", whatever you wanna call it] in the critical period of 1848 [Communist Party Manifesto] to 1917 [October Revolution].

Spengler [Asia Times/First Things] believes that Heine's Atta Troll was an anti-Marxist allegory.

And recently I discovered that Edward Teller's mother might have been something of an anti-Marxist [although that was probably after 1917].

Other than that, I know of none [and I've been asking this question for years now].

Heck, I don't even know that D'Israeli [who lived until 1881] spoke out against Marx.

For that matter, name a single prominent Jewish anti-Marxist in the time period 1917-1945.

[The Fountainhead was published in 1943, but Atlas Shrugged was not published until 1951.]

Confucius Silverdog said...

Steve, you got it all wrong.

Randy Cohen isn't Jewish - not at all.

He's a Unitarian-crypto-Calvinist-Universalist-super-duper-Protestant-uber-Puritan-Quaker Shaker.

testing99 said...

You're missing the ethicists point.

Which is that a "proper" SWPL yuppie would be so consumed by other cultures that they would "know" what is a holiday and what is Festivus.

It's all about SWPL yuppiedom as usual.

As far as Jewish anti-Americanism goes, that's just part of SWPL Yuppie absorption. Brit nutcase and exile Alan Moore is beloved by that crowd (V for Vendetta, etc) and he's about as Jewish as Charles Manson.

Most first/second generation Jews were deeply assimilated and patriotic: Siegel and Schuster, Louis B. Mayer, etc. They loved America and waved the flag every second they could. But the very assimilation led third/fourth generation Jews to adopt the SWPL yuppie attitudes you see all around you.

Jim O said...

"...lacking even a cursory grasp of a world religion’s holidays."
There are more Sikhs than Jews. How may Sikh holidays can Mr. Cohen identify?

Anonymous said...

I felt that whole experience gave me some insight into the mindset of the New York Jewish elite.



Yup. Anything other than unconditionsl approval is regarded as the beginnings of the next holocaust.

Try pointing out, on neocon websites, the simple fact that American Jews overwhelmingly support the far left, and in many cases ARE the far left. You instantly get called a Nazi.

Those who make civil dialogue impossible make uncivil dialogue inevitable.

Anonymous said...

Testing99, interesting point about first/second generation Jews, but you leave out Simon and Kirby (Timely/Marvel Comics), and Al Harvey (Harvey Comics. All served their country in uniform in WWII, and all were patriots (Simon, at 95still is).
Re the Ethicist, his blatherings (smug and generally free of actual ethical analysis) were one of the reasons I finally cancelled my subsription to the NY Times.

Anonymous said...

What are you guys talking about? He says you shouldn't do it.

Anonymous said...

Which is that a "proper" SWPL yuppie would be so consumed by other cultures that they would "know" what is a holiday and what is Festivus.



No, this is not a SWPL attitude. Stop trying to hammer the entire world into your limited selecton of holes.

Melykin said...

You can order an interfaith calendar that has holy days listed for many different faiths.

http://www.multifaithaction.org/calendar.htm

This calendar is produced in Vancouver. Someone who goes to my church (not in Vancouver) has been involved with producing it, so every year they have some for sale at my church.

Here is an online version of a different interfaith calander.

http://www.multifaithaction.org/calendar.htm

These might be handy to have. If a multifaith calendar is displayed prominantly in the workplace or school it might deter people from making up bogus religious holy days.

Anonymous said...

1917-1948:
Do remember that Irgun and the Stern Gang, though they may have been nasty terrorists, were staunch commie-haters.

James Kabala said...

Wikipedia claims (with no note, of course) that Cohen self-describes as not having attended synaogogue in thirty-plus years (save for weddings and bar mitzvahs, but apparently not even for Yom Kippur - again, if Wikipedia can be believed).

As noted by someone in the previous thread, Cohen's most famous column is one in which he advised a woman to tear up her contract with an Orthodox Jewish real estate broker because of his (negative) views on handshakes with the opposite sex. See
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/27/magazine/27ETHICIST.html

Testing is right for once: This guy is a deracinated multiculturalist before he is a Jew. Notice how even in the linked column, he immediately abandons Judaism and starts talking about Diwali - unless you think that is just a smokescreen.

Leonis said...

"As for Jewish anti-Americanism: it's more that they're afraid of nationalism because of what happened in (you guessed it) Germany."

"Perhaps that is the case. If so it just shows what I've long said - that Jews are not really all that bright."



I'm not so sure that the Jews can be sanguine about their situation in the U.S. While our post-War behavior would indicate that Jews have nothing to fear, times change.

To the extent that Jewish exceptionalism is the result of HBD, times should be expected to change. A lie can only be perpetuated so long... The question is what the change will render. That is subject to uncertainty.

Paul Mendez said...

All this angst could be resolved by simple, common-sense HR policies.

1) Use federal holidays as the baseline for paid holidays.

2) Give everyone a fixed amount of leave days per annum that can be used for sick days, vacation days, or personal religous holidays.

That's what I did when I ran a company. As an added bonus, Columbus Day was a federal holiday (is it still?) so I was able to make everyone celebrate the deadest, whitest, male of all with a totally straight face!

l said...

Boils down to one Jew getting a chuckle out of another Jew's suckering well-meaning gentiles. Nothing new.
I searched Cohen's archive to see if he had anything to say about Bernie Madoff ripping off other Jews. Not really. I'm sure he's torn between admiration and outrage.
FWIW: Cohen's bio says he's a comedy writer. We're not supposed to take his schtick seriously. (Wink)
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/features/magazine/columns/the_ethicist/index.html

SFG said...

Was Rathenau pro-Marxist? As I recall he just wanted the Jews to assimilate, and negotiated secret treaties with the Russians to help Germany rearm. He was a liberal nationalist up until they shot him in '22.

Fritz Haber was a scientist who made poison gas for the Germans (very peaceniky) and developed a process to produce ammonia during WWI, which meant the Germans didn't have to import saltpeter from Chile anymore.

And Disraeli was a pro-rural pro-imperialist conservative prime minister.

And I know you guys are anti-Israel, but Revisionist Zionists were nationalistic and anti-socialist. Some were even pro-Fascist until Mussolini turned on 'em. (Remember Mussolini's Jewish mistress, Margherita Sarfatti?) Even then, there was one group that tried to cut a deal with Hitler..."you don't want Jews? send 'em here!" Seems like a win-win to me, too bad Adolf was such a jerk.

A lot of Jews found Marxism very attractive because it was going to do away with all of their hereditary legal disabilities, but the old german DDP, which was basically as far right as you could go without being anti-semitic, had quite a bit of Jewish support.

As for the New York Jewish elite being smug and paranoid, well, won't argue with you guys there. Yes, they are. I don't have much regard for most elites, to be quite frank.

Cohen's argument is more diversicrat than Jewish-exceptionalist, and I disagree with him anyway. :)

Skeptic Hank said...

Randy Cohen being an apparently unethical schmuck aside...It is quite possible that the original letter writer is an average non-observant Jewish-American, and may well be ignorant of actual Jewish holidays.

M said...

Steve, this new scientist article seems consistent with Richard Lynn's exlanation for group differences?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327194.000-did-an-ice-age-boost-human-brain-size.html

rich szudzinski said...

My favorite Cohenism is when he'd use his NPR perch to counsel those who'd heard friends and family make an insensitive remark. The guilty were to be rebuked with bared teeth.
You wouldn't think this would be such an ongoing problem out there, but I heard this addressed twice in two months and he was only on bi-weekly.

Black Sea said...

Now, if the guy invented those bogus Jewish holidays to squeeze in a few illicit rounds of golf . . .

BigWaveDave said...

There are lots of bright people in this world, some of whom pride themselves on their ability to take advantage of others, some of whom try to do what is right despite possessing the cunning to do otherwise, and some of whom chose to have faith in their employees and accept that advantage will sometimes be taken of their trust. Of the three groups the last two are representative of what it takes to build a great product, a great company, a great county; the people in first group, smart though they may be, are lowlife scumbags who will eventually run out of values and people to disrespect and will be left with only their disrespect and themselves. As an example in business, think David Packard and Bernie Madoff; in academia, Edward O. Wilson and Alan Dershowitz; in entertainment, Carole Burnett and Roseanne Barr.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

anonymous about neocon websites. I go to lots of 'em and I've never seen that. I have seen your exact sentiment expressed many times. And Jewish websites such as Commentary say it all the time. Maybe it's your presentation.

Anonymous said...

"But the very assimilation led third/fourth generation Jews to adopt the SWPL yuppie attitudes you see all around you."

If new incomers have anti-American attitudes (as so many do) and deep ASSIMILATION leads to anti-American swpl yuppie attitudes, then the only solution is to boot 'em and keep 'em ALL out.

Luke Lea said...

Prominent Anti-Marxist Jews? How about Samuel Gompers? Isaac Bashevis Singer was certainly no friend. I bet there are more.

Anonymous said...

My Heart says Mazel Tov? Whoa. That is bad. So our immigrant nation isn't *friendly* enough cause people don't generally know every religious holiday in the world?

What if everyone did this? Let's say I have my own religion. Maybe you've never heard of it. Maybe you'll get busted if I call you out when I can't get my days off. Let's say everyone does this. At that point, society ceases to function cause no work will ever get done. But, Mr. Cohen will have been able to stick it to people he seems to imply are bigots (but doesn't have the guts to say that straight out).

Shameful. There is no other word.

Anonymous said...

Samuel Gompers

Are you out of your mind?!?

Sorry, you can't offer up labor agitators as anti-Marxists.

We paleocons are ruled by this thing called "reality".

Richard Hoste said...

"I've oftened wondered why certain Jews seem to bear such overwhelming hostility for a country and its people that have been far more hospitable to them than any other place on Earth. It's almost as if they hold us in contempt for not hating them."

Why did blacks turn anti-American after desegregation and affirmative action?

Human nature.

Melykin said...

BigWaveDave, why is Edward O. Wilson a scumbag? I don't get it.

Last Christmas day I was dozing in my chair in the living room. The rest of my family, including my four grown children, were also present. I awoke suddenly to a loud argument. My two sons were arguing with my youngest daughter. It was an angry and passionate argument, and my daughter still claims that she has never felt the same about her brothers since that day. I have never been able to figure out exactly what the argument was about, but I know it was something to do with Edward O. Wilson, who my sons apparently admired (one had stood in line to get tickets to attend one of his lectures). My daughter seemed to think he was evil.

Denny said...

"As an example in business, think David Packard and Bernie Madoff; in academia, Edward O. Wilson and Alan Dershowitz; in entertainment, Carole Burnett and Roseanne Barr."

Maybe we can add Joe Scarborough and Ben Dreyfuss (son of actor Richard) to this list.

Anonymous said...

re: "Name me a single Jew who opposed Marxism ["Socialism", "Anarchism", "Nihilism", whatever you wanna call it] in the critical period of 1848 [Communist Party Manifesto] to 1917 [October Revolution].

There were hundred of thousands of regular Jews, living a focused religious and family life in small towns. They studied the religious text and either didn’t care or were vehemently opposed to Marxists’ views. Silent subgroup doesn’t leave as resonant a record as a vocal subgroup.

As for Jews taking extra holidays, I have had a different experience, the one that The New Yorker is unlikely to talk about. All Jewish employers I’ve ever worked for never gave Jewish employees off on Jewish holidays. If you wanted to celebrate, you had to take a vacation or a sick day. And who are you going to complain about that? SPLC?

David Cohen said...

"the urge among Jews to chastise other Jews for bad behavior that might offend non-Jews has gotten rarer and rarer."

There are still Jews who have the urge to chastise other Jews for this sort of nonsense. I just left a comment on Randy Cohen's blog post linking to this site. I would have explicitly chastised him in my comment, but I'd like the moderator to approve my comment there.

This is really depressing. Randy Cohen is obviously a liberal elitist a**hole, and I'm happy to call him one. I'm also grateful to live in this country and consider myself a patriot. I even served an unremarkable stint in the U.S. Army. But then I read some of these comments and I feel like I should just put a gun in my mouth. It all seems so freaking pointless.

Yes, we all dislike Randy Cohen. But because he and I share the same ethnicity (and, unfortunately in my case, the same last name), my whole ethnic group is essentially getting tarred here because of him.

We're all human beings. I probably have the same hopes and fears you do. I'm not Randy Cohen. Please try to resist the urge to extrapolate from him to every other American Jew. Thanks.

cable guy said...

"Maybe we can add Joe Scarborough and Ben Dreyfuss (son of actor Richard) to this list."

Checking out Denny's link above, I find that Ben Dreyfuss tweets at Joe Scarborough the following: "American Conservatism isn't a coherent ideology so much as it is a mental state of clinical paranoia, you fucking twat"

Ah yes, looks like the ol' "Western Civ/Christianity/traditional culture&values is a mental/psychological/clinical disease/disorder/paranoia" idea is alive and well. You just gotta love the Frankfurt School and Critical Theory. You have to admire the staying power and resilience of such memes.

Steve in Greensboro said...

If American Jews really cared at all about their co-religionists, they certainly would not have voted overwhelmingly for Obama who seems committed to destroying Israel.

Mr. Anon said...

"Chris said...

Are there any professional ethicists that are not Jewish?"

More importantly, are there any "professional ethicists" who are ethical?

Mr. Anon said...

I've known plenty of jews who - when shift work on holidays was required - would happily volunteer to take the Christmas and Easter shifts, so that their christian collegues could take the day off.

Svigor said...

Cohen's bio says he's a comedy writer.

So am I. In fact, we got a lot of comedians right here at Steve's blog, amiright?

Kijkfaas McGee said...

So-and-so wrote: Name me a single Jew who opposed Marxism ["Socialism", "Anarchism", "Nihilism", whatever you wanna call it] in the critical period of 1848 [Communist Party Manifesto] to 1917 [October Revolution].

A rather ridiculous comment, but bearing upon a more serious point. If you want to read hardcore anti-communist vitriol, look no further than any orthodox rabbi from Poland up until the Holocaust. The vast majority of East European Jews, who were the vast majority of European Jews, were religious-traditional, and some of their rabbis even sent cautious letters of conciliation to Hitler in the early part of his dictatorship due to their hatred of the Jewish and European left. See Marc Shapiro's biography of Rabbi Jehiel Jacob Weinberg. It should be noted that the East European orthodox world was so insular and so utterly destroyed during World War Two that most people, even scholars, often forget or ignore that world and its extremely conservative, even profoundly anti-modern, ethos. These orthodox Jews constituted the great mass of Jewry before the Holocaust, and in due time they will reconstitute the great mass as the secular hedonist left-wing Jews die out from their secular hedonist left-wing bullshit (so much for Kevin MacDonald).

Anonymous said...

Does this mean I should get offended when people tell me I need to wash the dirt off my head on Ash Wednesday?

SFG said...

Please try to resist the urge to extrapolate from him to every other American Jew. Thanks.
To quote the slashdot boys, you must be new here.

Anonymous said...

It's a side point, but I worked at a Wall St law firm where the work was nonstop (when I was sick in bed they sent a Lincoln Towncar to my apartment with documents to review - pre remote access to word processing - with one Partner saying to the other, "he can sit up, can't he?"). Many times Jewish Associates took the Christmas Eve and Christmas Day shift so I could have off, if they could possibly swing into the work.

It was a phenominal experience. I once went a month without using a single roll of toliet paper in my apartment because I lived at the firm and they had booked regular rooms at the Novetel for when you worked until 4 AM and a drive home would be pointless. The good ol days.

Anonymous said...

For that matter, name a single prominent Jewish anti-Marxist in the time period 1917-1945

Ludwig von Mises

Anonymous said...

BigWaveDave said

"lowlife scumbags ... As an example in business, think David Packard and Bernie Madoff; in academia, Edward O. Wilson and Alan Dershowitz; in entertainment, Carole Burnett and Roseanne Barr."

Fill me in, please. I've always been a fan of Carole Burnett.

Why do you put her in this category? What'd she do?

Anonymous said...

Yes, we all dislike Randy Cohen. But because he and I share the same ethnicity (and, unfortunately in my case, the same last name), my whole ethnic group is essentially getting tarred here because of him.





The thing is that Randy Cohen is more representative of American Jews than you are. Which sucks, for you, just as it sucks to be one the good guys happen to be black. And there are some out there I know.

BigWaveDave said...

Re: Carole Burnett, E O Wilson, et all

My fault for not being clearer in my post... those pairings are of people who did things right (Burnett, Wilson, Packard) versus the disrespectful lowlifes in their fields (Barr, Dershowitz, Madoff).

DK said...

Steve in Greensboro wrote,

If American Jews really cared at all about their co-religionists, they certainly would not have voted overwhelmingly for Obama who seems committed to destroying Israel.

Not accurate, because you are assuming that most American Jews believe that the Neocon approach will help Israel. But they are not so sure that it is.

If I am correct -- that most Jews are not sure what policy is best for Israel -- then even if this is an important issue for many Jews, it will not be a deciding issue.

So they possibly voted on other issues where they have more decisive opinions. But that doesn't mean they don't care.

The Benny Hinn Headsmack said...

Jews threatened by dopey goy Americans? Take a drive across this country, and truly, truly examine the white proles that inhabit this rotted land, the obese monstrosities, the drunks, the whores, the screeching feminists, the moronic students, the sissy males, the hoops fanatics, the hicks, the meterosexuals, the barren hags, the epic fails. Not even the Hindoo fears this pathetic rabble.

I'm surprised 100% of Jewish males aren't wearing "shiksas are for practice" teeshirts, instead of the measly 46% who do currently.

Plymouth said...

"If American Jews really cared at all about their co-religionists, they certainly would not have voted overwhelmingly for Obama who seems committed to destroying Israel."

I guess giving empty speeches to naive Arab rubes and having Predator drones bomb Afghan peasant goat herders to oblivion counts as "destroying Israel" these days. I'll have to remember that next time. Thanks for the update.

Mohammed/Moses for Moi said...

"You can order an interfaith calendar that has holy days listed for many different faiths."

It doesn't have my faith listed on it, bro. It's still being born.

Community Kwallege Prof said...

"David Packard and Bernie Madoff, Edward O. Wilson and Alan Dershowitz, Carole Burnett and Roseanne Barr."

Ugh - they're compare and contrast examples, numbskulls. See, Squeaky clean American goyim Packard, Wilson, and Burnett = good. Dastardly Jews Madoff, Dershowitz, and Barr = bad. It's like a Brothers Grimm setup.

Issac Bickerstaff said...

Anyone have a take on our new dating system: B.C.E?

amir said...

As a teen, I used to work in a donut shop in LA that was open 24/7. I would work on Christmas and get 300% pay. I always assumed that was why Jews are so rich.

amir said...

Is it ethical to receive extra pay for working on a day which you do no consider a holy day?

Jun said...

Anonymous said: "What are you guys talking about? He says you shouldn't do it."

Huh? His first line is:

"It was an acceptable choice."

Sounds like the action falls under his approval.

tommy said...

While "Is it good for the Jews" thinking by Jews about the behavior of non-Jews is going strong, the urge among Jews to chastise other Jews for bad behavior that might offend non-Jews has gotten rarer and rarer.

The old "chillul Hashem" concept has declined along with shtetls and old-fashioned religious control over the lives of Jews.

Jews used to condemn the abuses of individuals because they could have seriously negative ramifications for the entire community. That risk is now nonexistent, but the Jewish ethnocentrism that motivated self-policing remains as strong as ever.

Jews don't need to monitor the behavior of other Jews because they have made any criticism of their ethnicity so unacceptable that they face no risk of being called out for bad behavior any longer.

The major foci for criticism of other Jews these days has become lack of ethnocentrism and lack of Zionist zealotry.

Tanstaafl said...

Jews have such a rich and useful vocabulary.

chillul hashem:

In the vernacular, the term "Chillul Hashem" is understood to refer to public or conspicuous misbehavior on the part of Jews. When a Jew, especially a visibly Orthodox one, publicly sins or otherwise creates a scene, the image of the Jew and Judaism is lowered in the eyes of the onlookers -- both Jew and Gentile. When an observant Jew (in dress, if not in behavior) is caught in a money-laundering or insider-trading scheme (and the press is always gleefully there to report it), or if Israel is condemned for human-rights abuses, it not only reflects on the Jews (and certainly not only on the individual sinner). Tragically, it casts a negative light on the very Torah the Jew supposedly upholds and ultimately, on G-d Himself.

It has been wisely pointed out that Gentiles who are constantly seeking out and noticing the bad in Jews -- even if in very minor and nonreligious matters such as annoying personal habits -- are truly seeking to invalidate G-d Himself.


Hmmm. The "misbehavior" seems to have gotten wisely shifted from money-laundering, insider-trading, etc. to seeking out or noticing such crimes.

wake up said...

this thread is just another riff on the greatest maxim of human relations which is: "give them an inch and they will take a mile".......

the tribes who refuse to give the first inch simply do not have to contend with giving up the mile......

see japan and saudi arabia.......also the han chinese and jews in israel are examples of groups who recognize the dynamic.....

Simon said...

IB:
"Anyone have a take on our new dating system: B.C.E?"

Well, I refuse to use it, which isn't too hard as it's not widely used in the UK yet.

You must admit, the ability to eliminate "Anno Domini" is pretty darn impressive, in a Dr Evil sort of way.

I dunno, I consider myself philo-Semitic, I get warm fuzzy feelings when I go out of my way to help Jews. Having a rabbi say 'Bless You' after I had notified the synagogue that a disused east-end Jewish cemetery wasn't being maintained by the body supposed to do so, so the synagogue could restore the graves (there were bones scattered across the ground, not nice) was one of the highlights of my life. Which is irrational, but there you go.

But taking away my dating system? That's really annoying!

Anonymous said...

He invented Jewish holidays, taking days off several times a year.

Why didn't the boss just check up? Surely its not hard to get a Jewish calender?

Anonymous said...

I've oftened wondered why certain Jews seem to bear such overwhelming hostility for a country and its people that have been far more hospitable to them than any other place on Earth. It's almost as if they hold us in contempt for not hating them.


If you read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's 200 years together its clear that this same contempt for the local culture existed in Russian Jewry.

Anonymous said...

Name me a single Jew who opposed Marxism ["Socialism", "Anarchism", "Nihilism", whatever you wanna call it] in the critical period of 1848 [Communist Party Manifesto] to 1917 [October Revolution].


According to Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in 200 Years Together, during the prelude to the revolution the older religious Jews would often beat their young revolutionary offspring because they could see where their behavior was leading to. They were especially worried that their offspring would leave behind the religious ways.

Anonymous said...

this is one topic where I don't have to bother reading t99's comments

Anonymous said...

"Anyone have a take on our new dating system: B.C.E?"

Yeah, this popped out of nowhere. Given the stupid Gentile mentality everyone will use it in 5 years & consider anyone who uses BC/AD a "racist". Look for the Catholic Church to start using it in 10 years.

Anonymous said...

Anyone have a take on our new dating system: B.C.E?
probably no suprise but it has its roots in orthodoxt judism - and their refusal and revulsion in the idea of "Before Christ" - and, of course jewish 'liberals' have spun it as some sort of progressive idea.

as for people saying cohen is not ethnocentric because he condems the orthodox guy who won't shake hands with a woman....well...
Alan Dershowitz is also anti-orthodox, but I don't think anyone would mistake him for being anti jewish (ethnic)

Anonymous said...

I've oftened wondered why certain Jews seem to bear such overwhelming hostility for a country and its people that have been far more hospitable to them than any other place on Earth. It's almost as if they hold us in contempt for not hating them.
And actually the more we become philosematic the worse they become.
Here in NYC I have noticed their behavior has gotten more brazen and more hostile towards even upper class gentiles. They won't stop, they don't know how, they almost totally lack self reflection.

tvoh said...

Cohen made a mistake reading the job add. He thought it said ethnicist, not ethicist.

NYT mag thought him a perfect fit.

l said...

As I recall, when a lot of Jews were freaking out over Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of the Christ', Michael Medved told his fellow Jews to calm down: The gentiles who are going to this movie are on our side -- they're Bush voters and overwhelmingly pro-Israel/ pro-war-on-terror. Don't alienate them now. We'll need them later.
In other words ... but my head says mazel tov!

David said...

>Obama who seems committed to destroying Israel.<

Freeper alert.

Does "who seems committed to destroy Israel" have its own key on your keyboard?

I cheated my goy employer.

Mazel tov, kvell I. He deserved it anyway, for not knowing as much about our holidays as we do.

Ethics from the New York Times: Who-Whom in small.

Svigor said...

My fault for not being clearer in my post

It was clear the first time 'round.

njartist said...

Ethics today is the field for the morally bankrupt. Ethics are demographics as ethics arise from the ethos of a community: two communities can exist; each possessing its own ethos; thereby each has its own ethos: ethical behavior in one could be unethical in the other.

For a thief in a den of thieves to decry theft would be unethical. A socialist calling for respect of property rights would be unethical.

One would think that a conscientious ethicist resist condemning a group other than his own for behavior that the other considers ethical. In fact, there can be no agreed upon ethical behavior unless there is an overlapping ethos.

Anonymous said...

Jews used to condemn the abuses of individuals because they could have seriously negative ramifications for the entire community.

I just spent a considerable amount of time looking for an article that I read a few months ago, by an Israeli rabbi [?], in an Israeli paper, who had warned that the shenanigans involving Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Golden West, Madoff, the Obama inner circle [e.g. Emanuel, Axelrod, Sunstein, Pritzker, Soros], etc etc etc, could spark a resurgence of anti-semitism, but I don't seem to have saved the article, and googling the keywords gives me millions of hits, so I'm going to have to call it quits for now.

Anyway, this persistent [and, apparently, very widely-held] sentiment - which holds that "a thing is wrong if and only if it makes us look bad" - isn't a basis for a moral code: It's tribal sociopathy.

Which would be what? Socio-sociopathy?

Anonymous said...

Those who make civil dialogue impossible make uncivil dialogue inevitable.
I usually don't like 'clever' slogans but this succinctly sums up what will happen in America, eventually.

When I was 25 of so (i am 44 now) i thought, eh, MAYBE in a 100 years, not in my lifetime...but now it seems like its just around the corner.

Anonymous said...

Re: "...a thing is wrong if and only if it makes us look bad" - isn't a basis for a moral code: It's tribal sociopathy.

Which would be what? Socio-sociopathy?"

Being afraid is not just a Jewish phenomenon, but human. I honestly do not understand why do you call fright and condemnation of immoral behavior--sociopathy.

Every time we, Jews, see someone Jewish misbehaving, we are not only outraged in general, we are doubly outraged. What would you have us do? Some of us are just regular folks. We complain, we condemn, but...

In addition to inter-group competition, there is something that is much more dangerous to an individual--intra-group competition. A small person gets squeezed on all fronts.

As far as New York Times ethicist is concerned--I've stopped subscribing and reading the paper, along with its ethicist right after the elections. (I should've saved the money earlier).

Anonymous said...

"a thing is wrong if and only if it makes us look bad"

What would you have us do?

A) Oppose wrong stuff because it is wrong, not because the publicization of its wrongness might hinder Jewish tribal advancement.

B) Don't do wrong stuff in the first place.

< C) PRE-CENSORED ON BEHALF OF KOMMENT KONTROL. >

David Cohen said...

It looks like the moderators at the NY Times rejected my comment, but they did post a comment by someone named Scott Thompson who ripped Randy Cohen a new one in the Golf Thread. When I first started reading this guy's comment, I thought Sailer might have written it: See here.

Redmond said...

"And actually the more we become philosematic the worse they become.
Here in NYC I have noticed their behavior has gotten more brazen and more hostile towards even upper class gentiles. They won't stop, they don't know how, they almost totally lack self reflection."

"Goldman Execs Blame Anti-Semitism"

"People inside Goldman tell me that some senior executives say they believe the onslaught of negative stories detailing Goldman's manifold ties to upper levels of government, charges that it somehow fraudulently profited from the subprime crisis, and now the press about the firm's record earnings is so out of proportion to reality that the coverage contains an element of anti-Semitism-subtly playing off the racist myth of a conspiracy of Jewish bankers controlling the world for their own benefit."

Anonymous said...

negative stories detailing Goldman's manifold ties to upper levels of government

Fanny, Freddie, and Obama
By The Prowler
on 9.8.08 @ 12:08AM
spectator.org

When President George W. Bush nominated Henry Paulson to serve as Treasury Secretary, Republicans raised a red flag that Paulson, who, along with his wife, has strong ties to the Democrat party, would not be an honest broker with Republicans.

That seems to have been borne out, with sources inside of Treasury reporting that Paulson briefed Sen. Barack Obama and his campaign advisers on the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bailout plan before offering such a briefing to the McCain campaign...


Paulson and Obama
By The Prowler
on 9.26.08 @ 9:49AM
spectator.org

When Sen. Barack Obama was given the floor to speak during White House negotiations, according to White House aides, he did so raising concerns about a House Republican alternative to the Paulson/Bernanke $700 billion bailout. But those concerns weren't necessarily his, as he was not aware of the GOP plan before reviewing notes provided him by Paulson loyalists in Treasury prior to entering the meeting.

According to an Obama campaign source, the notes were passed to Obama via senior aides traveling with him, who had been emailed the document via a current Goldman Sachs employee and Wall Street fundraiser for the Obama campaign. "It was made clear that the memo was from 'friends' and was reliable," says the campaign source...

Tanstaafl said...

The first version of this comment didn't go through, I assume either because blogger lost it, or Steve didn't appreciate the sarcasm it directed at some of his other commenters.

Here it is again with only a link and snippet demonstrating the importance of "the halachic concept of a moser", which has been invoked in more recent and more serious wrong-doing.

Syrian Community Moving To Limit Damage After Sting:

In all, 15 people were charged in the money-laundering scheme, all but two of them from Jewish communities in Brooklyn. On a Jewish radio program Saturday night a former assemblyman from Borough Park, Sam Hirsch, said Dwek should face stiff retribution because of his role as an informant, the halachic concept of a moser.

“This person should have been killed,” said [former assemblyman from Borough Park, Sam] Hirsch, when asked by “Talkline” host Zev Brenner whether Dwek’s acts were comparable to those of Bar Kamsa, the man related in the Talmud as having incited tensions between the Romans and Jews leading to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. Hirsch then said that Dwek and other informants should be ostracized from the community.

togo said...

I think it's common knowledge for anyone with any knowledge of radical history in the US that the CPUSA was very disproportionately Jewish from the time of its foundation through the point when it ceased to have any political or social relevance.

Not that all or even most Jews were Reds, but neither were more than a small fraction of whites ever slaveholders, and we have seen numerous apologies for slavery by public officials and legislative bodies and Christian organizations over the last ten years. In that spirit here are some acts of CPUSA mob violence in America that the Jewish community should consider apologizing for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor
(…)
The Ukrainian American community in November and December 1933 organized marches in a number of U.S. cities to protest against American recognition of a government which was starving millions of Ukrainians.[41][42] American Communists resorted to violence in an attempt to silence the Ukrainians.[41][42][43] On November 18, 1933, in New York City, 8,000 Ukrainians marched from Washington Square Park to 67th Street, while 500 Communists ran beside the parade and snatched the Ukrainians’ handbills, spat on the marchers and tried to hit them.[41][42] Five persons were injured.[41] Only the presence of 300 policemen on foot and a score on horseback leading the parade and riding along its flanks prevented serious trouble.[41][42]

In Chicago, on December 17, 1933, several hundred Communists mounted a massed attack on the vanguard of 5,000 Ukrainian American marchers, leaving over 100 injured in what The New York Times called “the worst riot in years”:

“Brick, clubs, rotten eggs and other missiles rained on the marchers from the Hermitage Avenue elevated station bridging Madison Street. The street fight which followed saw brass knuckles, blackjacks, fists and rifle butts used until a dozen squads of police restored order.”[18]
(…)

More “civil rights” supporters “protest” a rally of genuine anti-Semites (followers of Gerald L.K. Smith) in Chicago in 1946:
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/free_speech/terminiello.html
(…)
...the crowd reached an estimated number of 1,500. Picket lines obstructed and interfered with access to the building. The crowd constituted “a surging, howling mob hurling epithets” at those who would enter and “tried to tear their clothes off.” One young woman’s coat was torn off and she had to be assisted into the meeting by policemen. Those inside the hall could hear the loud noises and hear those on the outside yell, “Fascists,” “Hitlers” and curse words like “damn Fascists.” Bricks were thrown through the windowpanes before and during the speaking. About 28 windows were broken. The street was black with people on both sides for at least a block either way; bottles, stink bombs and brickbats were thrown. Police were unable to control the mob, which kept breaking the windows at the meeting hall, drowning out the speaker’s voice at times and breaking in through the back door of the auditorium. About 17 of the group outside were arrested by the police.
(…)

THere was certainly no fascist threat in Chicago or anywhere in the US in 1946. This was just the CPUSA showing its muscle.

Shawn said...

Interesting read. I suspect that like Drudge your influence is not so much as a result of the individual readers of your blog, but more because of who other bloggers who pick up your ideas and write about it. For example, say you get 6,000 visitors a month, but 10 blogs pick up your post. Now each of those blogs get 3,000 readers, etc.

Roach said...

Jews are almost universally liberal in the United States. This is likely a heritage of their minority status, their penchant for the "scientific" pretensions of ideology, their historical perception of nationalism in their former environs of Russia, and the hostility of some Jews to America's former and somewhat discriminatory tradition of WASP elitism.

(This occasionally makes an appearance in the still resentful ritual condemnation of "Jewish quotas" in the Ivies, even though many of these same Jews (including neoconservatives) support anti-white (as in white Christian) affirmative action policies and are even now writing books defending nepotism--Posner--that they are in power).

Russian Jews romanticized America as the free and equal land of opportunity only to be surprised and disappointed by its similarity in some respects to the Old World. From Hollywood movies (Salt of the Earth, for example) and the tensions with the Legion of Decency, to their fanatical defenses of the Rosenbergs, to their opposition to school prayer, to their leadership in the New Left, and other countercultural institution, American Jews of all stripes, including the neoconservatives, had little use for an ethno-religious conception of America as a land defined as one chiefly of European Christians, mostly Engish in their folkways, in a land where their old, inherited, and somewhat contradictory rights and practices could be enjoyed in peace, insulated from the rest of the world and its problems (and massacres, Holocausts, border wars, etc.)

DK said...

Roach wrote,

to their fanatical defenses of the Rosenbergs

Since you claimed this in the name of "almost universal" American Jewry, I am interested in understanding precisely what you mean.

Certainly, there was some concern over the death penalty at that time, particularly for Ethel. But are you speaking of defense for their innocence?

are even now writing books defending nepotism--Posner-

If you could supply a link or book for this, this would be helpful to me, if you don't mind. Thanks.

Steve Sailer said...

"to their fanatical defenses of the Rosenbergs,"


Roy Cohn? Judge Rosenberg?

Anonymous said...

***"What would you have us do?"***

How about "don't do it because it is wrong"? That seems to work for most people without having to work in some kind of ethnic utilitarian argument.

By only having the "good for Jews"/"bad for Jews" sort of "ethics" you send the clear message that Jewish ethics are simply about what is in Jewish interests and nothing else.

Which might be acceptable if Jews were not also so adamant in preventing others from taking a similar line of reasoning with regard to their own ethnic interests.

It's this double standard that will inevitably provoke some nasty reactions: "utilitarian self-interested ethics for us Jews; but only universalist non-utilitarian, non-self-interested ethics for you gentiles".

Why would anyone put up with this sort of double-standard if it does not benefit them, for one instant longer than they have to?

Anonymous said...

Steve should check out Jeffrey Goldberg's piece in The Atlantic ("Hollywood's Jewish Avenger") on Tarantino's new Jewish revenge fantasy flick that features a baseball-bat wielding Eli Roth (director of Hostel) smashing in the skulls of Nazi prisoners, scalping them, carving Swastikas on foreheads, etc.

jack strocchi said...

Steve Sailer says:

The people claiming to be terrified of being oppressed by Christians aren't acting like they are. Indeed, they act as if they hold their putative oppressors in contempt for being weak. The simplest explanation for this sizable change is that Jews in America have gone from being the underdogs to the overdogs. But nobody is supposed to mention this historic shift in public.

The situation is not helped because native born American ideological attitudes towards the Jews are hopelessly schizophrenic.

The US Left tend to be supportive of liberal Jewish culture but opposed to Israel.

The US Right tends to be opposed to liberal Jewish culture but supportive of Israel.

Consequently the Jewish Lobby is always tying itself up into knots, policing both conservative anti-antisemitism (eg in the Passion) on the Right and liberal anti-Zionism on the Left.

This probably exacerbates the race paranoia which is instinctive to Jews in any case.

For the most part I quite like Jews and wish them all the best. But I dont think they always handle the politics of their adoptive nation in a way thats good for Jews or Americans in general. Maybe they should take a leaf out of the Asian book and just concentrate on becoming doctors and lawyers, like they did in the good old days after WWII.

Billare said...

HBD could also imply moral differences between ethnic groups. I wonder how many people realize this. Not all of what we discover is going to be nice and divisible like IQ, something that one might see as separate from the "soul" or "self". After all, the optimal game theoretic strategy is "friendly tit-for-tat"; we can't all be wholly altruistic in every environment, or else there would be an incentive for some conspecific to evolve cheating behavior. As we know, human beings faced quite different ecological environments as they evolved.

I have increasingly come to believe that full appreciation of such knowledge will certainly destroy us.

stari_momak said...

There is an unmistakable current of hostility towards gentiles among a large part of the Jewish intelligentsia. Take a gander at this bit of Jewish triumphalism, from the Jewish Journal of LA, on Sam Zell's "buying" the Times. (Those who know how that deal turned out know why the scare quotes are there.) The author is apparently glad that Zell "bought" the Times because he (the author) couldn't talk loudly or gesticulate wildly when he had meetings with the Chandlers (he's a former editor or some such).

Likewise reading Jewcy.com or Heeb magazine will reveal a streak of nastiness towards the other 94 or whatever percent are not jewish, particularly the 60 plus percent that are non-jewish whites.

Mansizedtarget.com said...

In fairness to the Jews, the Jewish ethical tradition is not solely "Good for the Jews, Bad for the Jews." There is a sense among genuinely religiously Jews that the Jews are called to be a "Light unto Nations" and live in accordance with ethical principles to demonstrate the truth and power of the Lord. One can believe in genuinely ethical behavior and, in addition (and not in substitution of) this also believe one shouldn't do certain ethically permissible things because they are imprudent and may bring shame and scandal to the community, i.e., making a lot of money and showing off or living extravagently.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous who said...
"***"What would you have us do?"***

How about "don't do it because it is wrong"? That seems to work for most people without having to work in some kind of ethnic utilitarian argument."

I fail to see how I can change every wrong in the world or, even, just around me. I am an atomous individual who tries to live a moral life. You are preaching to the choir. When I find myself around people without scruples--of any ethnicity--I give them a piece of my mind.

ben tillman said...

So says my head . . . but my heart says mazel tov! This imaginative scheme imposed a tax on ignorance, penalizing an employer for lacking even a cursory grasp of a world religion’s holidays.

Cheating, lying, fraud -- the victims DESERVE IT!

James Kabala said...

Of course, the dominant moral atittude of much of the Old Testament is a third attitude, namely "Do right so that God's wrath will not descend on you."

In the later books, "Do right because it is right for its own sake, even if you have to suffer," desired by so many posters here, comes to the fore.

"Do right because it is 'good for the Jews'" must be a product of the diaspora period, when Jews are living among non-Jews rather than as a separate nation. I don't think this ever replaced the two older views, however.

Svigor said...

Cheating, lying, fraud -- the victims DESERVE IT!

Over the long term, this is the only way a people with a mean IQ over (whatever - 100?) screw people over as a way of life.

Anonymous said...

This thread just passed 100 comments, and if everyone else's rejection rate was anything like mine, then I bet there were 300 or 400 submissions to it.

I'm curious, Steve: Do you [at all] enjoy reading the posts that you choose to censor?

Do they ever make you smile, or chuckle, or break out in a little laughter, even though you realize that they're just a little too incendiary for prime time?

Or is it just sheer drudgery to try to force yourself to work your way through them?

Anonymous said...

Billare: HBD could also imply moral differences between ethnic groups... I have increasingly come to believe that full appreciation of such knowledge will certainly destroy us.

Yeah, I've started to wonder about this sort of thing - whether there might be hard-wired predispositions that we bring with us when we enter this world.

I am very much committed to the idea of freedom of the will, and, quite frankly, have no desire to live a life within a framework which does not admit freedom of the will, but some of these behaviors are so dadgum consistent that you have to scratch your head and wonder just what it is that's going on inside the minds of the people who seem so determined to engage in the behaviors.

Anonymous said...

Randy Cohen is an ass. Jewish law (halacha) is very strict about business ethics and this sort of thing is just not "kosher". But why would anybody consider the views of a secular leftist New York Times writer to be in any way connected to true Jewish values?

DK said...

stari_momak wrote,

Likewise reading Jewcy.com or Heeb magazine will reveal a streak of nastiness towards the other 94 or whatever percent are not jewish, particularly the 60 plus percent that are non-jewish whites.

You are reading quite selectively, apparently. And Jewcy's current editor is herself half-Jewish, and quite proud of her souther belle half.

http://www.jewcy.com/tags/immigration

http://www.jewcy.com/dialogue/02-28/be_nice_or_well_crush_you

Heeb spends most of its time mocking (or challenging?) the Jewish community.

http://www.heebmagazine.com/blog/view/1391/1

El Caudillo said...

"It's almost as if they hold us in contempt for not hating them."

THANK YOU SO MUCH for helping me to discover the 'missing piece' to this jigsaw puzzle!!!!!

Simon said...

anon:
"Randy Cohen is an ass. Jewish law (halacha) is very strict about business ethics and this sort of thing is just not "kosher". But why would anybody consider the views of a secular leftist New York Times writer to be in any way connected to true Jewish values?"

It definitely seems to me that the secularism of many New York elite Jews that helps them act scuzzy. My experience of dealings with long-established British Jews, who are far more religious than most US Jews (often shockingly so to US Jews who visit here) is that they give us goyim exactly what we bargained for, not a penny more or less. They drive a hard bargain, they don't 'give a sucker an even break', but they never cheat. To me that makes them much easier to deal with than the 'men with gold chains' crowd.

Simon said...

anon:
"Steve should check out Jeffrey Goldberg's piece in The Atlantic ("Hollywood's Jewish Avenger") on Tarantino's new Jewish revenge fantasy flick that features a baseball-bat wielding Eli Roth (director of Hostel) smashing in the skulls of Nazi prisoners, scalping them, carving Swastikas on foreheads, etc."

Hmm, I was going to see that movie next week. Now I'm reconsidering! I hate torture porn.

Svigor said...

But why would anybody consider the views of a secular leftist New York Times writer to be in any way connected to true Jewish values?

Because they know Jewry's an ethnicity, not a religion, and you're using Judaism as a fig leaf? I mean really, how many religious Jews don't claim all those famous secular Jews who came up with those nice inventions or whatever?

Anonymous said...

To Jewish commenters:

I live in Atlanta, GA - home to lots of conservative Christians. All my Jewish friends use "Jesus Christ" as a swear. Do they realize how offensive this is to the majority of the population? Do they care? How do you suppose they'd react if I told them that I disapproved? Or, that it is the equvialent of me saying "Jewing them down" or some such.

Anonymous said...

But why would anybody consider the views of a secular leftist New York Times writer to be in any way connected to true Jewish values?


ummm, because it's the default j. attitude?

Dutch Boy said...

The Benny Hinn Headsmack said...
Jews threatened by dopey goy Americans? Take a drive across this country, and truly, truly examine the white proles that inhabit this rotted land, the obese monstrosities, the drunks, the whores, the screeching feminists, the moronic students, the sissy males, the hoops fanatics, the hicks, the meterosexuals, the barren hags, the epic fails. Not even the Hindoo fears this pathetic rabble.

- Ouch - it's too true!!

Anonymous said...

To annonymous who doesn't tell his Jewish friends that he is offended when they say "Jesus Christ"

I don't think we can change the whole world, but maybe we can start with ourselves, and be honest with one another whenever possible. I'm a Jew, and I'm surprised to learn that exclaiming "Jesus Christ" is offensive to a Christian. Thank you for letting me know.

Anonymous said...

Don't look now, but Cohen is being called out for his hypocrisy in another recent column.