April 28, 2010

Harvard Law student crimethinks

A woman who is a third year Harvard Law School student and in line for federal clerkships, is in trouble for sending out the following email (From "Harvard Law School 3L's Racist Email Goes National" on Above the Law:
… I just hate leaving things where I feel I misstated my position.

I absolutely do not rule out the possibility that African Americans are, on average, genetically predisposed to be less intelligent. I could also obviously be convinced that by controlling for the right variables, we would see that they are, in fact, as intelligent as white people under the same circumstances. The fact is, some things are genetic. African Americans tend to have darker skin. Irish people are more likely to have red hair. (Now on to the more controversial:)

Women tend to perform less well in math due at least in part to prenatal levels of testosterone, which also account for variations in mathematics performance within genders. This suggests to me that some part of intelligence is genetic, just like identical twins raised apart tend to have very similar IQs and just like I think my babies will be geniuses and beautiful individuals whether I raise them or give them to an orphanage in Nigeria. I don’t think it is that controversial of an opinion to say I think it is at least possible that African Americans are less intelligent on a genetic level, and I didn’t mean to shy away from that opinion at dinner.

I also don’t think that there are no cultural differences or that cultural differences are not likely the most important sources of disparate test scores (statistically, the measurable ones like income do account for some raw differences). I would just like some scientific data to disprove the genetic position, and it is often hard given difficult to quantify cultural aspects. One example (courtesy of Randall Kennedy) is that some people, based on crime statistics, might think African Americans are genetically more likely to be violent, since income and other statistics cannot close the racial gap. In the slavery era, however, the stereotype was of a docile, childlike, African American, and they were, in fact, responsible for very little violence (which was why the handful of rebellions seriously shook white people up). Obviously group wide rates of violence could not fluctuate so dramatically in ten generations if the cause was genetic, and so although there are no quantifiable data currently available to “explain” away the racial discrepancy in violent crimes, it must be some nongenetic cultural shift. Of course, there are pro-genetic counterarguments, but if we assume we can control for all variables in the given time periods, the form of the argument is compelling.

In conclusion, I think it is bad science to disagree with a conclusion in your heart, and then try (unsuccessfully, so far at least) to find data that will confirm what you want to be true. Everyone wants someone to take 100 white infants and 100 African American ones and raise them in Disney utopia and prove once and for all that we are all equal on every dimension, or at least the really important ones like intelligence. I am merely not 100% convinced that this is the case.

Please don’t pull a Larry Summers on me,

Of course, the Black Law Students Associations are attempting to pull a Larry Summers on her and deny her a clerkship.

127 comments:

Eric said...

Well, if nothing else she's going to learn a valuable lesson about how people react when you force them to confront their own logical inconsistencies.

Anonymous said...

>>"In the slavery era, however, the stereotype was of a docile, childlike, African American, and they were, in fact, responsible for very little violence . . . Obviously group wide rates of violence could not fluctuate so dramatically in ten generations if the cause was genetic, and so although there are no quantifiable data currently available to “explain” away the racial discrepancy in violent crimes, it must be some nongenetic cultural shift"

Well, is it that hard to imagine that a lack of cleverness might lead to docility when totally under the control and provision of others, but frustration and resultant acting out when left to fend for oneself in a social meritocracy?

Anonymous said...

Wow. Just wow. Somebody informally posits that the black-white achievement gap might be genetic, *in an e-mail,* and the black student's association tries to get her fired?

I can only speak from experience (what choice do I have?), but I think this latest generation--i.e. Generation Y--is in some ways more conservative, and perhaps more race-realistic, than the previous one. I base my assertion on having grown up in a SWPL neighborhood and having attended UC Berkeley in the mid-00s (not, I know, a representative sample).

The only UC students who parroted the party line were the same ones who didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of passing Intro to Calculus. I'm talking about students from all ethnic groups here; there were a fair number of dumb whites and even asians at Cal. Of course, mentioning this could get you Larry Summers-ed, so nobody talked about it in public. That doesn't mean they didn't talk about it.

kudzu bob said...

The pressure builds up every day. The HBD denialists won't be able to keep the lid on for much longer.

Whiskey said...

She's toast. Meanwhile the advancing contradictions -- see Gordon Brown in the UK calling his supporter a bigot (a nice old lady) are bringing everything to a head.

No, middle class people don't riot in the streets. They do vote, and expose open secrets though.

adfasfsadfaf said...

>>"In the slavery era, however, the stereotype was of a docile, childlike, African American, and they were, in fact, responsible for very little violence . . . Obviously group wide rates of violence could not fluctuate so dramatically in ten generations if the cause was genetic, and so although there are no quantifiable data currently available to “explain” away the racial discrepancy in violent crimes, it must be some nongenetic cultural shift"

Well, is it that hard to imagine that a lack of cleverness might lead to docility when totally under the control and provision of others, but frustration and resultant acting out when left to fend for oneself in a social meritocracy?


Even violent people will be docile and gentle if forced to be so. During the slave era, blacks knew they'd get in BIG TROUBLE if they got out of line, thus their natural instincts were suppressed. This is also true of dogs. Even mean dogs will act nice if they fear the stick.

Today, we are all free, and it seems like freedom for blacks leads to more trouble than freedom for other folks.

At any rate, I hope this woman doesn NOT apologize, does NOT cower, does NOT backpeddle.
I'm sick of white cowardice. Be like Rosa Parks who remained in her seat. Be like Mandela who chose prison for decades for his convictions.
I'm sick of whites giving up their seats and moving to to the back of the bus whenever they are called 'racist'.
I hope she doesn't do a Larry Summers or James Watson. Have some guts, sister.

Svigor said...

First, you can bet your sweet ass this gal was only showing the tip of the iceberg. She was generating cognitive dissonance, not wondering aloud about the facts. Nobody wonders things like that aloud in polite company unless they're dragging around a big ole iceberg; too much risk, no reward.

Second, it's nice to see some evidence that SWPLs have a bit of spine left.

Third, she's finished. She'll be pilloried. Conversations like that between Harvard Law students are absolutely not to be allowed.

The Anti-Gnostic said...

She is forgetting the one law that trumps all others: equality of inputs must yield equality of outcomes.

Off with her head.

OneSTDV said...

"Please don’t pull a Larry Summers on me,"

I don't think groveling is going to work.

I wholeheartedly applaud this courageous (and highly intelligent) woman.

Anonymous said...

They cannot handle the truth. Truth is too painful to accept, run against the American belief that everybody can achieve their dream if they work hard enough. For those who deny the existence of IQ difference, just ask them to develop a IQ test that black can consistently outscore white/asian. They cannot do it for all the money in the world.

Svigor said...

Don't get too attached to any comments you post at abovethelaw. I just had mine excised. The first was just two short paragraphs based on two arguments:

1) Liberals made the "offensive conversation" inevitable when they started blaming "black failure" on whites.

2) There's a universe of data and argument on the questions of nature-nurture and racial cognitive equality, or lack thereof.

I was pretty polite about it.

Anonymous said...

Is the email author Asian?

Svigor said...

In the slavery era, however, the stereotype was of a docile, childlike, African American, and they were, in fact, responsible for very little violence . . . Obviously group wide rates of violence could not fluctuate so dramatically in ten generations if the cause was genetic, and so although there are no quantifiable data currently available to “explain” away the racial discrepancy in violent crimes, it must be some nongenetic cultural shift

Great, so slavery's the only thing that can contain black violence?

jody said...

"Obviously group wide rates of violence could not fluctuate so dramatically in ten generations if the cause was genetic"

why not? the english are going through this process right now. in britain, the most recent generation appears to be slightly less intelligent and moderately more violent. they even have a name. chavs.

dysgenic trends can take effect in only 3 generations. indeed, we already have lots of evidence on mestizos in the US which suggest this very process is occurring.

keypusher said...

this is as scary as hell.

dearieme said...

"I don’t think it is that controversial of an opinion": I don't think we want federal clerkships going to people who intrude an unnecessary "of" into their written English, do we?

Anonymous said...

Her fate depends on how she handles this. If she claims a misunderstanding and apologizes, she is toast. Her only chance is to counterattack, demanding that someone censure the BLSA for its efforts to quash intellectual exploration by thuggish threats. Her role model should be the cop who arrested Gates -- though she obviously has a much tougher challenge.

Roach said...

These people--the BLSA--are monsters for trying to hurt this girl's career for having "incorrect thoughts."

Average Joe said...

In the slavery era, however, the stereotype was of a docile, childlike, African American, and they were, in fact, responsible for very little violence (which was why the handful of rebellions seriously shook white people up).

If the blacks were really considered to be docile then why did they spend so much time in chains? I also think that the reason blacks committed so little violence during the slave era is that any black that did engage in violence would have been killed right away and so most slaves learned very quickly that it was better to be docile and alive than violent and dead.

RandyB said...

I know some people here are Christians and are going to disagree with me from the other direction, but I think genetic racial equality (in intelligence) is the liberal's version of Creationism. Creationists take a morals-based view of why their beliefs should be taught in school ("teach kids they're apes and they'll act like apes") and aren't really interested in contrary facts. They dismiss radiocarbon dating for fanciful reasons and think it a sheer coincidence that dinosaur fossils are from a completely different era than humans. But they can't produce one example of a trilobite coincident with a mammal.

IQ egalitarians explain away obvious differences with legacies, stereotypes and barriers, and the fact that there are ZERO contrary indicators bothers them not a bit.

l said...

Leftist witch hunt. At least she didn't say something about the Israel lobby, or Shoah-business. She'd really be skrooed then.

couchscientist said...

Eric Holder told us that we shouldnt be cowards about talking about race, and here you have why we are cowards. This is exhibit A for why intelligent people don't state the obvious about race. This will not go away for this girl, who otherwise was probably going to have shining career. I'm sure she does well in the long run, but professorships, a shot at being a judge herself one day, etc. just got quite a bit further out of reach. How many smart people don't say anything, but just let the crap go on? I know that a lot of average to slightly above average IQ people have honestly bitten into the liberal racial babble, but smart people must see the truth for what it is and just not say anything about.

Anonymous said...

the young clerk is about to learn the truth is not a defense.

NWO is treason said...

Sorry but she gets no sympathy from me. Leftists eating one of their own? Boo frickin hoo.

Hard science majors (math, physics, chemistry etc) possibly excluded, all of the rest of the cool aid drinkers at the America-hating anti-white anti-Christian Marxist reeducation camp known as Harvard can drop dead. They are trying to create another Bolshevik Revolution in this country. They are absolutely traitors.

Grumpy Old Man said...

Eppure, si muove.

Chief Seattle said...

Anyone who wants to be a top lawyer should know better than to speak her mind that way. She should have kept her mouth shut, gotten the clerkship, and posted to her hearts content on isteve through an IP anonymizer.

"Is the email author Asian?" - LOL, great point. Asians just aren't picking up white guilt fast enough. Maybe some re-education is in order.

Jehu said...

Anyone know what the black homocide rates relative to the white homocide rates in the US were from 1865 to 1960? Is the 9 to 1 per capita ratio a constant over time, or did blacks used to be more law abiding? I know 75% of them were born in wedlock as recently as the early 1960s.

Anonymous said...

"At least she didn't say something about the Israel lobby"

Right, because the Left never has anything negative to say about Israel.

Dog of Justice said...

"Is the email author Asian?" - LOL, great point. Asians just aren't picking up white guilt fast enough. Maybe some re-education is in order.

I'm guessing no, because of the BLSA response. For better or worse, black organizations practically never target Asians. They want as many naive Asians as possible as allies against whitey, and a high-profile unfair character assassination could really get in the way of that.

Dalrock said...

Is it time for another Two Minutes Hate already? How time flies!

BamaGirl said...

I read about this on huffingtonpost. You guys should check out the ridiculous comments regarding the matter.
Sucks that her idiot friends had to forward the e-mail to everyone and their mother. Otherwise her speculation wouldn't be an issue.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't it be the absolute pinnacle of awesomeness if Clarence Thomas were to offer her a clerkship?

Contemplationist said...

Steve
Some commenter in the thread claimed that in Finland or somewhere, men and women score equally well in Math. Is that so?

Truth said...

"I'm talking about students from all ethnic groups here; there were a fair number of dumb whites and even asians at Cal."

How exactly does a "dumb Asian" get to Cal? Does he play on the football team, or does he attend on his grand-daddy's legacy?

Truth said...

"Today, we are all free, and it seems like freedom for blacks leads to more trouble than freedom for other folks. "

Well, that depends on where you live, Afghani dirt-farmers might disagree with you.

Truth said...

"They cannot handle the truth. Truth is too painful to accept, run against the American belief that everybody can achieve their dream if they work hard enough."

Everyone can. Stupid people don't aspire to spend 20 years in school learning to build jet engines. Unathletic nerds don't aspire to get tackled 40 times a day.

"2) There's a universe of data and argument on the questions of nature-nurture and racial cognitive equality, or lack thereof."

And where do you feel you fit in on the intellect scale, Sviggy?

"Her role model should be the cop who arrested Gates -- though she obviously has a much tougher challenge."

Hey a Harvard Law Student idolizing a beat cop who made a bad arrest; I don't know if she should set her sights to that lofty a level, do you?

AmericanGoy said...

"Wow. Just wow. Somebody informally posits that the black-white achievement gap might be genetic, *in an e-mail,* and the black student's association tries to get her fired?"

That's nothing.

Write an email critical of Israel and watch the results in awe.

Bonus points if you have a government position of any kind.

Truth said...

" and the fact that there are ZERO contrary indicators bothers them not a bit."

Actually, that's Not true

"If the blacks were really considered to be docile then why did they spend so much time in chains?"

Oh I don't know, I have an 85 IQ and all, but it might be because it makes it HARDER TO RUN AWAY.

Anonymous said...

"Is the email author Asian?"

No.

"If the blacks were really considered to be docile then why did they spend so much time in chains?"

They didn't.

Whiskey said...

Speaking of cognitive dissonance:

A woman (hard left) is in Haiti, is regrettably raped at knifepoint by one of the natives, and blames ...

White Men!

A lot (well almost all) of White female hatred of "White guys" is really the hatred of beta males. No one but White guys does the beta male thing to the extreme: supplicating, being "nice" and polite, pedastalizing, and so on.

There's a line in Ferris Bueller's Day Off where Bueller notes pal Cameron will marry the first girl who has sex with him, and she in turn will despise him, because no one likes someone who is nice to you all the time, kisses ass, and is grateful for even a smidgen of affection returned.

You have to ask yourself, "How does PC get sustained, along with Multiculturalims, and Diversity, when it often hurts White women?" Given White women's dominance in many areas: Law, now medicine, and so on. The answer is: White women find Beta White guys (the 99% who are NOT Brad Pitt nor Charlie Sheen) disgusting.

Anti-Racism is merely White women totally disgusted by most White Men not being Charlie Sheen or Brad Pitt.

rob said...

I wonder if there's value in distinguishing biological environment from culture-environment. The m/f difference in spatial ability is caused by hormones: transwomen who start estrogen get worse at it. People with PKU used become retarded over time. Now, if they minimize the phenylaline they eat, they don't. That's an environmental change, but it is not what people usually mean.

We'd be harder to attack as bio-conservatives than as hbders. Hell, we can claim some things as a tradition: vitamin D fortification. Once upon a time, there was a racial disparity in rickets. Modern "progressives" transported back in time would ignore it, or claim that there was no benefit to having "normal" bones, and normal is just institutional racism anyway. Or that blacks got rickets because you're a racist. Instead, people figured out the biological cause and fixed it. We could be the movement of "hey, let's effing fix things." Or at least the movement of let's look at things and see if they can be fixed.

I think this woman reads Sailer. She's pretty up on the field for an amateur, and she sounds more like an hbder than a stormfronter.

There's more to this story: why the eff would she put this in writing? She might be able to save her ass by claiming she was making a purely hypothetical argument. It isn't hard to construct a population that anyone would believe is smarter than black (or white) Americans: Ramanujan, Einstein, Maxwell, and Gauss. Why are these 4 dudes smarter? If it is genetic, then... That might save her.

Arguing that blacks are genetically more crime-prone in the current environment wouldn't help her. What kind of fitness advantage does an allele need to go from 1 to 50% prevelence in 10 generations, 3-4 percent? The frequency of the sickle cell anemia allele is lower in black Americans that white admixture would predict: they've been under some selection in the New World. An allele wouldn't have to climb that much in frequency to up the serious crime rate considerably.

La Griffe did criminality gaussians for whites and blacks, If someone were interested, it wouldn't be too hard to show that a small change in the mean would up murder quite a bit. Murderers are what, 1 in 1000 people, that's a few sigma out there.

Anyone want to bet a dollar that incoming law students will have either 1)write an essay about how the IQ gap is either meaningless or caused by white racism, or sign a statement that to that effect? Clearly the current filters to keep out crimethink need revision.

Harry Baldwin said...

Jehu said...Anyone know what the black homocide rates relative to the white homocide rates in the US were from 1865 to 1960?

According to some post-Civil War accounts, blacks committed crime at a rate about five times that of whites. The following references can be found through Google Books:

Public opinion: a comprehensive summary of the press throughout ..., 1898, Volume 24, p. 45
But a much greater cause of homicide in the United States is the vast number of colored people in that country. The colored race furnishes to the statistics of this crime, proportionately, more than five times as many cases as the whites. It should not be forgotten, however, that the proportion of colored criminals, according to population, is apparently always greater because the average term of imprisonment is frequently longer than for the white criminal. Moreover, such is the prejudice against the Negro, especially in the southern states, that it is reflected even in the administration of justice, with the result that the colored offender against the law is judged and condemned with greater severity than the white offender.

Race problems of the South (1900), pp. 29-33
Professor Willcox states facts showing idleness to a degree that is startling, and he gives census figures to show that in the South the crimes of Negroes as compared with whites were, in 1890, in populations of say 10,000 each, as a little less than 5 to 1, and in the North considerably over 5 to 1, and that Negro criminals were increasing faster in the North than in the South.

Racial integrity and other features of the Negro problem (1907)- Page 137
While conditions in Denver bear a strong resemblance to those in some of the Southern cities, there is a marked difference in the grade of crimes committed. From the first of May to the first of September, 1906, there were ten killings in Denver. Five of these, including the murder in cold blood of two police officers killed in the discharge of their duty, were the work of negroes. One negro was killed by a white man—-who was acquitted because he acted in self-defense—-so that we have four per cent of the population committing fifty per cent and involved in sixty per cent of all killings during this period. Ten negroes and eleven whites were involved.

This record is not sustained through any long period, but the negro commits vastly more than four per cent of the murders done in Denver. Of other crimes, he is credited with vastly more than four per cent, but he seems to become relatively less conspicuous upon the police records as we pass from murder, burglary, assault, etc., to the milder crimes and misdemeanors.

Average Joe said...

Oh I don't know, I have an 85 IQ and all, but it might be because it makes it HARDER TO RUN AWAY.

Docile people don't run away. Docile people just do as they are told. The reason blacks were in chains was because the slave masters were afraid of them.

Anonymous said...

Contemplationist said...

Steve
Some commenter in the thread claimed that in Finland or somewhere, men and women score equally well in Math. Is that so?


Yeah, they probably published a paper about it, but then they lost the floppy that the data was on, so no one can check their results.

Trust us, it's only true in Finland or somewhere.

Average Joe said...

Hey a Harvard Law Student idolizing a beat cop who made a bad arrest

What was so bad about the arrest? Gates was acting like a nut job which was why he got arrested. If Gates had known how to act like a civilized human being he never would have been arrested.

Tom V said...

Truth,

And the Chinese in NBA are taller than the league average at about 7'0".

Chinese people of the world rejoice. We're not short after all. Au contraire!

Felix said...

I agree with Chief Seattle. A basic lesson for lawyers to be circumspect in putting things in writing.

And the more so for emails, given the ease in on-sending copies and the seductive informality.

BTW, Contemplationist asked about the claim that "in Finland or somewhere", men and women score equally well in Math.

Don’t know about high school maths etc. But, not surprisingly, all the Finnish contestants in the 2007-09 Maths Olympiads were males. See:
http://www.imo-official.org/country_individual_r.aspx?code=FIN

Further BTW, I'm intrigued that no-one seems to have done any stats analysis of the Olympiad results.

Kylie said...

I think we can rule out the writer being a wise Latina who, with the richness of her experiences, reached a better conclusion than a white male who has not lived that life.

gdfafsadfdas said...

She said "don't to a Larry Summers on me", to which I reply, "don't act like Larry Summers under the heat."

afasdfasfsda said...

Speaking of Harvard, I have a tremendous idear. Most Harvies are liberal and for illegal immigration, right?

Okay, how about we form a flash mob--around 5,000 people--and swam Harvard, attend all the classes, force ourselves into the library and dorms.
If Harvard administration asks what the hell we're doing, we'll say we are 'illegal students' and Harvard should admit and acknowledge us. They should give us free cafeteria food, free college health care, free books, and free access to dorm and gym facilities. Sure, we didn't follow the proper procedure, but why should that matter? Illegal aliens didn't stand in line and do the proper paperwork either. Since Harvard is for illegal aliens, they should not object to illegal students either. Let's crash Harvard. Imagine classes being swamped by illegal students. Maybe we can call it affirmative admission.

And we should do this on Bill Gates's private property too. And the property of the Kennedy, Bush, and McCain families. Have 1000s of people illegally break into their huge yards, set up tents, and take up residence. If the big business and political bigshots say illegal aliens are okay, illegal residents are okay too.

And we can youtube it all. Sure beats Tea Parties. It'll be a riot. Just imagine a 1000 good ole boys from the South going to Harvard as illegal students. All in the name of 'inclusiviness' and 'social justice'. We should all wear t-shirts with stars on bars on front and Che Guevara on the back. EQUALITY!! Hehe.

liberalbiorealist said...

What's interesting about the email is how it seems entirely to lack any "gotchas" that could really be used to good effect against its author.

Had she positively asserted that she thought that the black-white IQ gap was substantially based in genetics, that might have been a gotcha. It would be her claim of confidence in the assertion that would be deemed deeply objectionable -- how (and why!) dare she pretend to know something that is so controversial? (This is what doomed Watson -- along with the crudeness with which he made his claims.)

But virtually everyone who styles him- or her- self as an intellectual -- even the worst of the worst liberal dogmatists among scientists and humanists -- understands that they must pay lip service to the possibility that blacks and whites might, due significantly to genetics, diverge in average intelligence. Even in the eyes of the dogmatists, it is simply too crass scientifically to assert otherwise. This crops up in virtually all discussions they undertake. Almost always, they commence by mentioning the possibility that, of course, there might exist such a genetically based gap. Naturally, they then go on to "prove" that there's no evidence that the gap is importantly genetic -- but that's another point.

Some organizations and individuals may try to raise holy hell over this email. But I just don't see it getting anywhere. The email and the issues it raises promise only to be embarrassing to the dogmatic powers-that-be, both in law school and in the legal system. My guess is that they will do everything they can to quash any fuss over this email.

Remember: even with Larry Summers, his opponents were reduced to bewailing the "outrage" that the President of Harvard, in particular, should be saying things so destructive to the self-esteem of women faculty and students, even if the "possibility", and the intellectual right to entertain it, had to be acknowledged. Pinker, as a scientist, basically argued Summers' point for him, and was pretty much left alone (though it was also the less toxic claim regarding women, not blacks).

The author of this email is just a student. It will likewise be hard to hang this on her, however much many parties may wish to do so.

The only way I can see this getting much traction is if her opponents start to claim she did or said something quite a bit more dramatic.

Svigor said...

And where do you feel you fit in on the intellect scale, Sviggy?

High enough to know what docile means.

Richard Hoste said...

High enough to know what docile means.

HA! Svigor brings it home for the white race!

Anonymous said...

"I agree with Chief Seattle. A basic lesson for lawyers to be circumspect in putting things in writing."

Why are you guys blaming the victim? Nothing in the email was even offensive. These taboos can only survive because people like you have less balls than this chick.

Mr Apostrophe said...

It's gratifying to learn that real Harvard students are making fun of the make-believe ones: The Barrys and Michelles of the world

Bottom line: smart people recognize the mediocrities, and at Harvard they are black and brown

Roger Chaillet said...

Interesting. The First Family chose Sidwell Friends School in affluent, majority white Bethesda, Maryland for the two children. Don't know why this is so, but it might have to do with the fact that Sidwell Friends does not release SATs scores, nor does it rank its students. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidwell_Friends_School

I guess the majority minority D.C. public school system wasn't good enough?

If the author of the email had guts she'd demand that her critics release their scores on standardized entrance exams. No, not class rankings nor grades; otherwise her critics would have the same phony credentials as Sonia Sotomayor. Only standardized test scores will work.

Roger Chaillet said...

BamaGirl doesn't understand.

Only Whitey can be (fill in the blank) "bigoted," "xenophobic," "hateful," "intolerant," "racist," etc., etc.

Only DVGs, or Designated Victim Groups (thanks to John Derbyshire, can dish out the ad hominem. Whitey is supposed to endure it because he has worn the mantle of oppression for (fill in the blank again) decades/centuries/thousands of years.

Carolyn said...

@ Truth - A lot of not so stellar students get into Cal and the Ivy League as TRANSFER STUDENTS. It's much easier to get into Cal as a junior than a freshman.

Melykin said...

Hey afasdfasfsda,

The illegal Harvard students could hold signs saying "We are human".

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/gallery/2010/04/we-are-human-arizona-immigration-bill-sparks-protests.php?img=1

liberalbiorealist said...

"I agree with Chief Seattle. A basic lesson for lawyers to be circumspect in putting things in writing."

Why are you guys blaming the victim? Nothing in the email was even offensive.


Well, I think that there's a good deal in the email to which many will take offense.

Their problem is that they won't be able to locate a "smoking gun" in the email that will serve to punish the author of the email. It's going to be maddeningly frustrating for them. Perhaps so maddening that they'll find (or even make up?) something more, well, actionable.

While the author says all the right things about her merely keeping an open mind on the issue, it's pretty evident from all chooses to mention what she actually believes. Which, again, is going to be exasperating for her opponents.

All in all, the email is a case of pretty good lawyering.

Truth said...

"why not? the english are going through this process right now. in britain, the most recent generation appears to be slightly less intelligent and moderately more violent. they even have a name. chavs."

Well Jody, if white people, black people and Mestizos are all doing it, it's probably not genetic, is it?

Melykin said...

rob wrote:
"Once upon a time, there was a racial disparity in rickets. Modern "progressives" transported back in time would ignore it, or claim that there was no benefit to having "normal" bones, and normal is just institutional racism anyway. Or that blacks got rickets because you're a racist. Instead, people figured out the biological cause and fixed it. We could be the movement of "hey, let's effing fix things." Or at least the movement of let's look at things and see if they can be fixed.
===================================

Exactly! Look at the high prevalence of alcoholism amongst the aboriginal population of Canada. The only "correct" explanation is that it is caused by racism and colonialism. No one even dare suggest that there is a biological cause--so no research is done that might actually lead to a cure! Politically correct madness.

kudzu bob said...

"Well Jody, if white people, black people and Mestizos are all doing it, it's probably not genetic, is it?"

Poor Twoof. Trouble with the word "docile," and now trouble with the word "genetic." Trouble is his bidness, you might say.

Truth said...

"Docile people don't run away."

Oh I don't know Joe, Deer are docile creatures, but they don't exactly stand there and let you shoot them.

"What was so bad about the arrest? Gates was acting like a nut job which was why he got arrested. If Gates had known how to act like a civilized human being he never would have been arrested."

What is so bad is that in this country, police do not prosecute crimes, they do not arrest people to "teach them a lesson" (they do, however in Sub-Saharan Africa.)

The officer went to investigate a crime and was shown ample evidence to suggest that Gates was in his own home, therefore not breaking in. Good policework at this point is simply to leave.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
-Pastor Martin Niemöller

Maybe you would like to live in the 4th Reich, but I can't say that it is a dream of mine

"HA! Svigor brings it home for the white race!"

Hey Svig, I guess you have been nominated the new George Lincoln Rockwell (I guess it doesn't take much.)

"Bottom line: smart people recognize the mediocrities, and at Harvard they are black and brown"

Well, one of the "mediocrities" is the one and only President of the United States; and you sir are... what again?

Truth said...

"@ Truth - A lot of not so stellar students get into Cal and the Ivy League as TRANSFER STUDENTS. It's much easier to get into Cal as a junior than a freshman."

Agreed, instead of being in the top 2%, they are in the top 5%.

Anonymous said...

Off Topic:

Steve, if you haven't seen these posts at Dienekes, they might provide you with an post or two:

"Empathy for one's own race neurally distinct from empathy from mankind"

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/04/empathy-for-ones-own-race-neurally.html

"Human Brain Recognizes Race"

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/04/human-brain-recognizes-race.html

kudzu bob said...

Niemöller. Wow. Bet nobody on this website's ever come across that quote before.

"and you sir are... what again?"

Twoof loves to use that stale bit of passive-aggressive slander, although he is of blithely unaware that a number of top-flight scientists--respectful greetings, Dr. Cochran!--and best-selling authors--love your books, Dr. Murray!--and cartoonists--you're awesome, Baloo!--as well as cowardly, thieving New York Times journalists who steal Steve's ideas--you suck, David Brooks!--read this website every day. Funny that Twoof never actually seems to get around to telling us what awesomely high status job he has, though. Can't imagine why that might be.

Truth(er) said...

"A woman (hard left) is in Haiti, is regrettably raped at knifepoint by one of the natives, and blames ...

White Men!"

The story is a hoax. The woman was never raped. The hatred and sentiment toward white men, however, is real.

Real rapes are determined at autopsy.

Kylie said...

Truth said: "Well, one of the "mediocrities" is the one and only President of the United States; and you sir are... what again?"

My guess is not a beneficiary of affirmative action, as are the current occupants of the White House.

rob said...

If Harvard administration asks what the hell we're doing, we'll say we are 'illegal students' and Harvard should admit and acknowledge us. They should give us free cafeteria food, free college health care, free books, and free access to dorm...

I find "illegal student" to be insulting and demeaning. I will want to be called an undocumented student. "We have no record of you at this school." I'll say "No duh, records are documents, and I'm undocumented. Gimmmegimmme gimme gimme."

Left hand spasm, I don't like your inability to choose a screen name. Though I suppose adfasdfasdfasdf and dsfasdfasdfsdf could be different people. But I like the way you think.

Anonymous said...

"@ Truth - A lot of not so stellar students get into Cal and the Ivy League as TRANSFER STUDENTS. It's much easier to get into Cal as a junior than a freshman."

Someone responded

"Agreed, instead of being in the top 2%, they are in the top 5%."


I know that Cal Berkeley has an agreement with feeder community colleges to accept a small % of their top grads. I happened to have taught several of them in high school. Responsible, hard-working students? Yes, the kind state colleges were originally intended to serve. However, they all managed to graduate from UC but none were in the hard sciences.

It's not hard to get top grades in our county's community colleges, and Cal is not what it once was.

Juan said...

Gawker is reporting that the student in question is clerking for Judge Kozinkski (a famous Court of Appeals judge who often acts as a feeder to Supreme Court justices). Basically, she had a shot at a Supreme Court clerkship.

Simon said...

Contemplationist:
"Steve
Some commenter in the thread claimed that in Finland or somewhere, men and women score equally well in Math. Is that so?"

Girls did much better than boys at maths in my Northern Ireland high school, a Grammar (selective entry) school. I was in the top Maths class, which AIR had 27 girls and 3 boys, same as the top English class.

Culture is clearly a factor in achievement in any area.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

"Eppur si muove," indeed. It should be our battle cry.

“It’s unfortunate that this person appears to be on paper a highly educated individual, yet her viewpoints prove otherwise"

In other words, "highly educated" = "fully indoctrinated and in complete, unquestioning, absolutely close-minded agreement with the approved dogma of the academy."

You should celebrate diversity. If not we will shove it down your ever-loving throat. Because it's good for you.

As for her chances at a clerkship - one should remember that since federal judgeships (and many state ones) are for life, there is every reasonable chance that a prominent, open-minded, race-realist conservative will gladly accept her application - especially if she's HOT (which she certainly is intellectually, at least).

Perhaps that's wishing too much. Perhaps even judges are afraid to rock the boat. But somehow I don't think so. If anyone hears anything more please keep us posted on the outcome of this kerfuffle.

Simon said...

Truth:
"Well Jody, if white people, black people and Mestizos are all doing it, it's probably not genetic, is it?"

Absolute crime rates seem highly influenced by cultural factors, but relative crime rates between different population groups/races seem much more fixed.

So here in the UK, crime has increased among whites since the 1950s, but the relative rates between whites and blacks are very similar to the US and other countries, with blacks committing around 6-8 times as much violent crime per capita.

Average Joe said...

The officer went to investigate a crime and was shown ample evidence to suggest that Gates was in his own home, therefore not breaking in. Good policework at this point is simply to leave.

You apparently don't understand that people can engage in criminal activity in their own homes. Gates irrational behavior was an indicator that he may have been engaging in criminal activity. Again if Gates knew how to behave in a civilized manner he probably would never have been arrested.

Average Joe said...

Well Jody, if white people, black people and Mestizos are all doing it, it's probably not genetic, is it?

The problem is that the different races have different crime rates with blacks committing the most homicides.

Average Joe said...

Deer are docile creatures, but they don't exactly stand there and let you shoot them.

I don't know where you get the idea that deer are docile. Male deer can get quite violent with each other during mating season.

Steve Johnson said...

whiskey:

"You have to ask yourself, "How does PC get sustained, along with Multiculturalims, and Diversity, when it often hurts White women?" Given White women's dominance in many areas: Law, now medicine, and so on. The answer is: White women find Beta White guys (the 99% who are NOT Brad Pitt nor Charlie Sheen) disgusting."

Or maybe the answer is that society isn't controlled by a secret cabal of women and that admitting women to elite medical schools and law schools has the same effect and is done for the same reason as all limits to admissions of elite institutions: because the men who then actually become members of the professions (rather than joining the mommy track) will face less competition.

Anonymous said...

any black that did engage in violence would have been killed right away and so most slaves learned very quickly that it was better to be docile and alive than violent and dead.

You could see that as a little evolutionary bottleneck. If it had continued for a few hundred years who knows what the effect might have been? But it was only in force for what, about 150 years max?

Anonymous said...

in the UK, crime has increased among whites since the 1950s, but the relative rates between whites and blacks are very similar to the US and other countries, with blacks committing around 6-8 times as much violent crime per capita.

When pointing this out I always ask how the concept of racism applies.

How is that so many different jurisdictions manage to co-ordinate their racism so that conviction rates (and even more impressively crime victimisation surveys) manage to arrive at a pretty robust global black/white violent crime ratio. Its not impossible sure, but it would involve a vast amount of organising, communication etc Police, lawyers, courts and witnesses too! All would have to be working in concert across differing legal systems, time zones, police forces, languages...

Truth said...

"Funny that Twoof never actually seems to get around to telling us what awesomely high status job he has, though. Can't imagine why that might be."

I've written it a few times now, I am a contractor currently consulting the Department of the Interior on ARRA and Partners Projects.

"My guess is not a beneficiary of affirmative action, as are the current occupants of the White House."

There are government set-asides to voting percentages in the electoral college? I was not aware!

"I know that Cal Berkeley has an agreement with feeder community colleges to accept a small % of their top grads."

"Top" being the optimal word there.
And if we hold "having a hard-science major" as the arbiter of intellect, about 90% of white women in America, and about 80% of white men are idiots.

"with blacks committing around 6-8 times as much violent crime per capita."

Well, I know that whites in London are about 6 times more crime prone than whites in New York, so the black folk must REALLY be bad there.

Jim O said...

Note to my fellow iSteve readers: to avoid most of the comments that are not worth your time, skip those containing the word "Truth."

Anonymous said...

I think this woman reads Sailer. She's pretty up on the field for an amateur, and she sounds more like an hbder than a stormfronter.

In which case there would be 500 or 1000 lurkers at iSteve, busting down her door, asking for her hand in marriage.

Kylie said...

Captain Jack Aubrey said: "'Eppur si muove,' indeed. It should be our battle cry."

Yes, we'd be relatively safe in adopting that as our battle cry since the elites need us alive and functioning to fund their whole stinking enterprise. Otherwise, I fear such a cry might well lead to our final words being, "More weight".

Toadal said...

3L writes:
I would just like some scientific data to disprove the genetic position, and it is often hard given difficult to quantify cultural aspects. One example (courtesy of Randall Kennedy) is that some people, based on crime statistics, might think African Americans are genetically more likely to be violent, since income and other statistics cannot close the racial gap.

It appears Asian Americans as well as whites are falling into the 'some people' category. San Francisco African-American males are beginning to realize smaller, older, and lighter Chinese Americans don't take punches very well and are easily injured when thrown off train platforms after robberies. Unfortunately, the foreign born are the most vulnerable since the civil society they came from didn't prepared them for American street thuggery. American political correctness can make you dead as well as uninformed, if out of ignorance, you think you can 'talk some sense' into our underrepresented minority youth.

In SFGate today C.W. Nevius describes San Francisco Asia Americans coming to city hall to speak to the Board of Supervisors regarding blacks behaving badly.

Cheng was just one of the nearly 300 Asian Americans who showed up at City Hall to share story after story about being assaulted, robbed and intimidated. The two hours of testimony were tearful and angry.

Truth asks:
How exactly does a "dumb Asian" get to Cal? Does he play on the football team, or does he attend on his grand-daddy's legacy?

Cal Berkeley administrators worship at the feet of 'Diversity' like other university administrators and Asia is a big place. Thailand, Cambodia, Burma, Laos, as well as the Philippines, are located in Southeast Asia. I've met a Philippine-American Cal freshman who is struggling with her studies. My daughter tells me the girl was shocked to be accepted since her SAT scores were so low.

Whiskey pontificates:
The answer is: White women find Beta White guys (the 99% who are NOT Brad Pitt nor Charlie Sheen) disgusting.

That's truly a twisted perception you have about white women, Whiskey.
BTW, I appreciated your reference to Amanda Kijera's 'We are not your weapons – we are women'. Priceless!

ben tillman said...

In the slavery era, however, the stereotype was of a docile, childlike, African American, and they were, in fact, responsible for very little violence ....

Wrong on both counts. This was neither the stereotype nor the truth. Blacks engaged in plenty of violence; it's just that it was mostly directed at other blacks.

Anonymous said...

Simon said...

Truth:
"Well Jody, if white people, black people and Mestizos are all doing it, it's probably not genetic, is it?"

Absolute crime rates seem highly influenced by cultural factors, but relative crime rates between different population groups/races seem much more fixed.


So, the problem here is that Truth is not very bright and does not understand Genetics.

Some populations (you guess which) have genes that lead to violence and lawlessness at a higher frequency than others (who have, over time, and due to their longer exposure to civilization, pushed the frequency of such genes way down.)

Kate Coe said...

It's very difficult to get into the top tier UC schools from community colleges because the CCs simply don't offer enough of the required classes. You can wait for years trying to get the right combo of credits.

And even if this law student can back up all her suppositions, she's too foolish about the cultural climate to go on. Her only hope is to ditch law and take up honest work, like selling drugs or being a call girl.

Anonymous said...

Simon said:

Contemplationist:
"Steve
Some commenter in the thread claimed that in Finland or somewhere, men and women score equally well in Math. Is that so?"

Girls did much better than boys at maths in my Northern Ireland high school, a Grammar (selective entry) school. I was in the top Maths class, which AIR had 27 girls and 3 boys, same as the top English class.


You are confusing quantity with quality.


Culture is clearly a factor in achievement in any area.


I think you have it the wrong way around. Achievement is clearly a factor in culture ... and genes affect culture, not the other way around.

Anonymous said...

"How exactly does a "dumb Asian" get to Cal? Does he play on the football team, or does he attend on his grand-daddy's legacy?"

No, s/he gets great grades at a mediocre public school, does well enough on the SATs and has parents who can pay the full tuition. Remember that at Berkeley, a 120 IQ is dumb.

Melykin said...

Simon wrote:
"Girls did much better than boys at maths in my Northern Ireland high school, a Grammar (selective entry) school. I was in the top Maths class, which AIR had 27 girls and 3 boys, same as the top English class.

Culture is clearly a factor in achievement in any area."
================================


The gap between males and females in math is really only noticeable out on the fringes of the distribution--for example people who do well on the Putnam Mathematical exam are overwhelmingly (but not all) male. In an average first-year calculus class you won't see any difference between genders--well--females might do slightly better because they tend to have better work habits, at least at the university I teach at.

By the way I am female and I teach math. I've also got a brain and can understand that there must be a biological difference in math ability at the very highest levels, because the evidence is very clear. Even 20 or 30 years ago the scarcity of women with high scores on the Putnam could be blamed on culture. But not today, when we see women getting about half the spots in medical schools, etc.

The gender difference in math doesn't bother me. Even most university math profs (of any gender) do not do well on the Putnam. I know I am good enough at math to do my job, and as good as my colleagues. And I am certainly much better at math than the vast majority of males in the general population.

I won't say, however, that this gives me insight into how black people feel about the racial IQ gap. I think that gap is probably somewhat more noticeable , and not just out in the upper tail of the distribution. Which is not to say there isn't a lot of overlap. Certainly there are black people who are smarter than most white people. And there are lots of stupid white people. Lots.

ben tillman said...

Hey Svig, I guess you have been nominated the new George Lincoln Rockwell (I guess it doesn't take much.)

Well, Rockwell did have a degree from an Ivy League university.

keypusher said...

The law student has already apologized, which is unfortunate, but I can't blame her.

Baloo said...

Great idea about illegal students and I agree that undocumented student is even better. But why stop there? How about undocumented bank tellers, undocumented husbands, etc.?

And thanks for the good words, Kudzu Bob:)

OhioStater said...

Well Steve, being openly bigoted is low class, low rent. It's not SWPL. Now, quiet bigotry requires more class, taste and restraint.

josh said...

Blacks arent inherently violent because they didnt revolt too much during slavery? This chicks a lawyer??? Did she ever hear of a place called Haiti? The experience of slaves in Latin America differs dramatically as they were extremely violent and could often be unpleasant! Some possible reasons may be A)Slaves down there worked on vast plantations as opposed to smaller ones here? B)The Spanish showed no compunction whatsoever about sex with the black females. The Anglos up here abhorred it,tho the custom was not always followed. The vast reserve of mulattoes,the endless supply of new slaves brought in,the unabashed cruelty of the Spanish masters...it seems Muhammed Ali was right when he said,"I'm glad my grandaddy got on that boat."yeah,THAT boat,not the South American one!! The girl:She must be a very SWPL girl,tho I admire her courage;the belief in the violence of blacks is apparent by having any somewhat prolonged contact with them,and by paying a bit of attention to them. Story:On the train,idly watching two young black brothers playfully battle. They were loud and rough. A young average white boy walked by with his parents,waiting to get off. the older black boy weirdly reached out and touched the white boy. If this kid was in a school with black kids like these he'd be eaten alive. I admire the Jews to no end for their dedication to integration,as Jewish kids have the highest integration with black kids in school. Thats why I---OOPS!Wait,i had the graph upside down...

catperson said...

"Remember that at Berkeley, a 120 IQ is dumb."

Actually the average IQ at Berkeley is 120. See Jensen's "The g Factor", page 265.

BamaGirl said...

"Only Whitey can be (fill in the blank) "bigoted," "xenophobic," "hateful," "intolerant," "racist," etc., etc.

Only DVGs, or Designated Victim Groups (thanks to John Derbyshire, can dish out the ad hominem. Whitey is supposed to endure it because he has worn the mantle of oppression for (fill in the blank again) decades/centuries/thousands of years."

Nah, Roger, I have sadly gotten it by now. It always irked me a little bit but definitely came to a boiling point last semester when I had to take a BS women's studies class to fulfill a humanities requirement for my core classes. The very first day was a lesson in "white privilege" and how apparently band-aids were racist and whatnot...There was little studying of actual women's issues, just a bunch of whining "oppressive beauty standards" and about how apparently it is the white man's fault that men in post-colonial societies treat their women like crap. I found all this pretty ironic since all this justification of backwards behavior in the name of "culture" was far more sexist than what most hardcore evangelicals think! Anywho, the scary part is I attend the University of Alabama....if I have to hear this kind of crap in required classes here (my English class was pretty much all about post-colonialism too btw)....imagine the indoctrination that kids in more liberal states face!

catperson said...

"In the slavery era, however, the stereotype was of a docile, childlike, African American, and they were, in fact, responsible for very little violence (which was why the handful of rebellions seriously shook white people up)."

The reason African Americans today are violent is because they have an average IQ of 85, and Jensen asserts that IQ 80-90 is the peak IQ range for violent crime. Meanwhile whites have an average IQ of 100, a level where the crime rate goes way down.

However prior to the 20th century, the IQ's of both races were 20 points lower because of malnutrition (see the Flynn Effect), so whites had an average IQ of 80 and thus it was whites who were in the volent crime range which explains why they lynched black men and raped black women. Meanwhile black Americans prior to the 20th century had an average IQ of only 65, and thus were docile.

It was only when better nutrition increased the height and IQ of both races by 1.3 SD did blacks become smart enough to be violent and whites became too smart to be violent.

Saint Louis said...

Go to the LSAC (the people who run the LSAT) website and look at the stats they release. They provide us with the number of negro students who took the LSAT last year, their mean score, and the size of their standard deviation. From these numbers of course, you can simply do the math and figure out almost exactly exactly how many got certain scores.

In case you were curious, it turns out 16 negro students in the entire country got a 168 or higher (3 standard deviations above their mean) on the LSAT. Now that's not a bad score by any means (it's about 96-97th percentile), but at Harvard Law the 25th percentile is a 170, meaning 168 is probably about the 15th percentile (it's nowhere near a perfect distribution since the bottom 25% is filled with much lower scores by NAMs because law schools only report their 25th and 75th percentiles.

Therefore, we can see that only 16 negro students in the entire country would avoid being in the bottom 15% at Harvard Law. I'm sure there are at least that many in each class at Harvard and certainly most of those 16 go to other top schools like Yale, Stanford, or Chicago on huge scholarships.

Taking the numbers further, there are only about 280 negro students in the country who managed a 160 or higher on the LSAT (2 standard deviations above their mean). A 160 is, again, not a bad score, but it's only around the 70th percentile for all LSAT takers.

There are almost 200 accredited law schools in the US. 280 negro students in the country scored 160 or higher on the LSAT. There are certainly more than 1.4 negroes per class at US law schools. The standards for a negro to get into law school must be incredibly low compared to white students.

adfsdfadf said...

"The reason African Americans today are violent is because they have an average IQ of 85, and Jensen asserts that IQ 80-90 is the peak IQ range for violent crime. Meanwhile whites have an average IQ of 100, a level where the crime rate goes way down."

This is ridiculous. Most dumb people are like Forrest Gump. Harmless. The problem with blacks is not low IQ but stronger muscles and more aggressive temperament.
How many dumb white women are into violent crime?
If blacks with 85 IQ were geeks with low levels of testasterone, they would not be violent, and even if they were, we'd be able to kick their ass and make them behave.

asffasdfasfd said...

It appears Asian Americans as well as whites are falling into the 'some people' category. San Francisco African-American males are beginning to realize smaller, older, and lighter Chinese Americans don't take punches very well and are easily injured when thrown off train platforms after robberies. Unfortunately, the foreign born are the most vulnerable since the civil society they came from didn't prepared them for American street thuggery. American political correctness can make you dead as well as uninformed, if out of ignorance, you think you can 'talk some sense' into our underrepresented minority youth.

If white kids did this to old blacks, it would be national news 24/7.
If white kids did this to old Hispanics, it'd be national news during prime time.
If white kids did this to old Asians, it would be major regional news.
But when black kids do this to old Asians, it's just local news reported 'objectively' without moral judgment.

Why?
(1) Liberal Jews control the media and they wanna maintain the Jewish-black alliance.
(2) Asians nationwide are a silent minority.
(3) Whites feel no guilt about Asians, thus no great sympathy.
(4) Jewish media have spread anti-Chinese paranoia so as to divert American rage and fear away from Jewish power. Hollywood is even gonna release the remake of Red Dawn with Chinese invading the US.

PS. This story should make it clear that the NUMBER ONE problem with blacks is not low IQ but stronger muscles and more aggressive nature. Suppose blacks had IQ of 100 and Asians had IQ of 85. Would dumb geeky Asians be a threat to smarter/richer blacks or to most whites? NO!!

Too much of 'race realism' on the white right is selective race realism which only focuses on differences where blacks are inferior. No, the real problem is that blacks are SUPERIOR when it comes to muscle power.

ATBOTL said...

"While conditions in Denver bear a strong resemblance to those in some of the Southern cities, there is a marked difference in the grade of crimes committed. From the first of May to the first of September, 1906, there were ten killings in Denver. Five of these, including the murder in cold blood of two police officers killed in the discharge of their duty, were the work of negroes. One negro was killed by a white man—-who was acquitted because he acted in self-defense—-so that we have four per cent of the population committing fifty per cent and involved in sixty per cent of all killings during this period. Ten negroes and eleven whites were involved.

This record is not sustained through any long period, but the negro commits vastly more than four per cent of the murders done in Denver. Of other crimes, he is credited with vastly more than four per cent, but he seems to become relatively less conspicuous upon the police records as we pass from murder, burglary, assault, etc., to the milder crimes and misdemeanors."

You can find a lot of other accounts of high black crime rates well before the 60's if you look for them. The idea that black crime only got bad because of welfare is one of the most ridiculous myths among conservatives.

Another thing to remember is that the "black family" was never as stable the statistics would have you believe. Blacks always had very high rates of separation, "outside" children and other marital dysfunction.

Svigor said...

Oh I don't know Joe, Deer are docile creatures, but they don't exactly stand there and let you shoot them.

Still haven't looked up "docile" yet, T? You're battin' a thousand.

Svigor said...

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
-Pastor Martin Niemöller


I've paraphrased that quote for my own purposes ("first they came for the nazis," etc.). But whenever someone uses it in the usual manner I'm always tempted to rewrite the end:

THEN THEY CAME for me,
and we all had a beer and a laugh.


Hey Svig, I guess you have been nominated the new George Lincoln Rockwell (I guess it doesn't take much.)

Don't be a spoilsport, sport! You know better than anyone the sweetness of low-hanging fruit.

chicagopeasant said...

"TRUTH"
What kind of crack have you been smoking? It is mathematically and biologically impossible for two population groups that have been separated for 50,000 years to score the same average on any measurement or test given to them at this time. If you were to measure the height of these two groups, measure bone density, measure their speed, measure their IQ etc., they would never average the same.

Svigor said...

When pointing this out I always ask how the concept of racism applies.

How is that so many different jurisdictions manage to co-ordinate their racism so that conviction rates (and even more impressively crime victimisation surveys) manage to arrive at a pretty robust global black/white violent crime ratio. Its not impossible sure, but it would involve a vast amount of organising, communication etc Police, lawyers, courts and witnesses too! All would have to be working in concert across differing legal systems, time zones, police forces, languages...


Uhm, white racism is genetic? DUH!

Svigor said...

It was only when better nutrition increased the height and IQ of both races by 1.3 SD did blacks become smart enough to be violent and whites became too smart to be violent.

Isn't this the numerical equivalent of semantics? Psychometricians would have normed the whites at 100, and the blacks would be at 80 again.

Svigor said...

genes affect culture, not the other way around.

No, they affect one another. I'm sure a math or science type can give you a better term, like "feedback loop," only apropos.

BamaGirl said...

"Taking the numbers further, there are only about 280 negro students in the country who managed a 160 or higher on the LSAT (2 standard deviations above their mean). A 160 is, again, not a bad score, but it's only around the 70th percentile for all LSAT takers.

There are almost 200 accredited law schools in the US. 280 negro students in the country scored 160 or higher on the LSAT. There are certainly more than 1.4 negroes per class at US law schools. The standards for a negro to get into law school must be incredibly low compared to white students."

Quite true, and most law schools like to keep 15 percent quotas for minorities. Some law schools get around the issue of them performing poorly on the LSAT by not requiring the test in certain conditions. At my school they just implemented a new policy where if a student is in the honors program (diversity quotas in that program too) and maintains a 3.75 or higher, they automatically get admitted without having to take the LSAT...
This is definitely a ploy to increase diversity since it isn't exactly difficult to get a 3.75 GPA in history, ethnic-studies, sociology, etc.

catperson said...

"This is ridiculous. Most dumb people are like Forrest Gump. Harmless."

You're making my point. Most VERY dumb people are harmless like Forest Gump. Most mildly dumb people however are at risk for being violent.

Prior to the Flynn Effect, blacks were in the Forest Gump range, and thus docile and harmless like Forest Gump, meanwhile whites were in the violent IQ range which made them well suited to being slave masters.

However after the Flynn Effect, blacks progressed to the violent IQ range and whites progressed to the civilized IQ range.

"Isn't this the numerical equivalent of semantics? Psychometricians would have normed the whites at 100, and the blacks would be at 80 again."

True, at any given time, the average intelligence in the white population is by definition 100, and blacks are about 15 points below this. However in 2010 IQ norms, the average white during slavery had an IQ of 80 and the average African American had an IQ of 65.

jody said...

truth:

the point was to show that dysgenic trends can affect any isolated group. yes, it is possible for west africans in the US to, over time 10 generations time, become more violent than africans living anywhere else. just like they could become taller, or shorter, or fatter, or smarter, or dumber. their breeding group is isolated and becomes divergent at generation 2. it is similar to language. english speakers are isolated by oceans and their accents diverge almost immediately.

when did colonists stop speaking like englishmen and start speaking like new yorkers and bostonians? why an additional southern accent? why an australian accent?

i didn't say europeans around the world were getting dumber and more violent. i specifically said it was the english. in direct contrast to the english, the irish are getting smarter and less violent. in the netherlands, germany, and scandinavia, the people seem to slowly keep getting smarter and taller.

nobody is sure why american indians and mestizos who come to the US become less successful and accomplished by generation 2, but the evidence that this is happening is widespread. this doesn't happen to east asians, for instance.

Anonymous said...

@Whiskey

I read the "white woman raped in Haiti" article but didn't see anything about her blaming beta men.

Did we read the same article?
Copy and paste where she says it.

The chick is a former prostitute.

Anonymous said...

"Actually the average IQ at Berkeley is 120. See Jensen's "The g Factor", page 265."

In a hyper-competitive atmosphere, average is dumb. And I would guess that the average IQ at Berkeley has declined by several points since The g factor was published.

It could be interesting to see how the tuition hikes at UC will affect the student body composition. Will they be, on average, more or less intelligent? I'll reserve judgment.

Anonymous said...

"African-American IQ scores have long averaged about 15 points below those of Whites, with correspondingly lower scores on academic achievement tests. ... The cause of that differential is not known; it is apparently not due to any simple form of bias in the content or administration of the tests themselves. The Flynn effect shows that environmental factors can produce differences of at least this magnitude, but that effect is mysterious in its own right. Several culturally based explanations of the Black/ White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available."

Racism!

l said...

On a related note: Why are most Supreme Court clerks Harvard and Yale grads?

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/clarence-thomas-throws-fellow-justices-feeder-judges-and-law-schools-under-the-diversity-bus/

Anonymous said...

Looks like she's decided the Gallileo route is her best way out.

Simon said...

Truth:
"Well, I know that whites in London are about 6 times more crime prone than whites in New York, so the black folk must REALLY be bad there."

I'm not sure about your figure on white crime rates, but it sounds plausible given the very low crime rates for white New Yorkers.

You are basically correct - taking street robbery, our street robbery rates are 5 times New York rates, and robbers are 70-80% black, including mixed-race "Londatto" 'blacks' who are culturally 'white', being raised by their white mothers, often with white siblings. There are also lots of African blacks, my neighbourhood has a Somali gang problem, which is particularly scary because the Somalis are high on qat and are much less predictable than West Indian (Caribbean) blacks, IMO. Also, West Indians don't generally show the racial hatred towards whites that African-Americans often do. I was going to send my son to the local state (public) school, even though whites are a small minority, because I reckoned he'd probably get on ok with the black-Caribbean and South Asian students. Now we know the school has problems with Somalis, though, I'm much more nervous. My son is tough and strong, a bit of boisterous rough-housing and even fist fights won't hurt him, but knives and razors certainly will.

Overall though, it's not so much that blacks in London are particularly bad by global standards, more that New York has very good law enforcement and low crime rates these days.

Anonymous said...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/04/30/e_mail_on_race_sparks_a_furor_at_harvard_law/


She caves in and becomes Larry Summers/James Watson.

David said...

>Okay, how about we form a flash mob--around 5,000 people--and swam Harvard, attend all the classes, force ourselves into the library and dorms.
If Harvard administration asks what the hell we're doing, we'll say we are 'illegal students' [etc.]<

Genuine genius. Let's do it.

rob said...

@Whiskey

I read the "white woman raped in Haiti" article but didn't see anything about her blaming beta men.

Did we read the same article?
Copy and paste where she says it.


Hi anon, you must be new here. Whiskey doesn't do "facts."

Truth said...

"Note to my fellow iSteve readers: to avoid most of the comments that are not worth your time, skip those containing the word "Truth."

Oh, come on Jimboni; we all know that without me this board would disenegrate into 25 enuchs having a circlejerk.

Truth said...

"if blacks with 85 IQ were geeks"

Philosophical question here: Would one with an 85 IQ really be considered a "geek?"

You're the vocabulary Nazi here Svig, I think your expertise is needed!

By the way, while we're on that subject, docile means "obidient" I have yet to find a source that defines it as "having lost the fundamental desire for self-preservation."

"I've met a Philippine-American Cal freshman who is struggling with her studies."

A student a Cal struggling with her studies huh? What are the odds?

"Some populations (you guess which) have genes that lead to violence and lawlessness at a higher frequency than others"

One of the great geneticists of our time has decided to posthumously join the discussion. Really nice to have you, Dr. Crick!

"Wrong on both counts. This was neither the stereotype nor the truth. Blacks engaged in plenty of violence; it's just that it was mostly directed at other blacks."

The inventor of the original movie camera has decided to posthumously join the discussion, really nice to have you, Mr. LePrince!

"I don't know where you get the idea that deer are docile. Male deer can get quite violent with each other during mating season."

Well it just so happens that I am a human being and not a Mule deer...and they tend to run from us.

Truth said...

"Blacks arent inherently violent because they didnt revolt too much during slavery? This chicks a lawyer??? Did she ever hear of a place called Haiti? The experience of slaves in Latin America differs dramatically as they were extremely violent...

Slaves were violent here, if you'll do your research you'll see that there were many slave revolts, starting in the 1600's when blacks and Irish "indentured servants" fought side-t0-side against "the man."

This led to a two-tiered system of Indentured servants on top, blacks on the bottom and, in essence made the Irish "white people." Previous to this there was a law in the original colonies which stated that the wife of any slave automatically became a slave; so the plantation owners arranged many a hastily arranged marriage between big black buck and redheaded lass from Dublin. Shocking, I know, but that's about how much the "real" whites thought of you Irishmen.

Also, there were many slave results in the old south, they simply weren't given press, by gentlemen's agreement amongst newspaper publishers, for fear that word would spread to other slaves and cause panic amongst white people. This lasted until the Nat Turner incident.

Truth said...

"the point was to show that dysgenic trends can affect any isolated group."

Yes Jody, I got it; Your point was that cultural factors having nothing to do with biology can increase or decrease the level of violence in a cohort of people having similar genetic traits...and I agree with you.

Truth said...

"THEN THEY CAME for me,
and we all had a beer and a laugh."

If I May:

THEN THEY CAME for me, but while they were on their way, a B-17 bomber dropped a bomb on my roof blowing off both of my legs, because other people got angry at them for killing too many trade unionists, communists and Jews.