July 28, 2010

More Oliver Stone

From the LA Times:
Oliver Stone has apologized for his anti-Semitic rant, but is the damage already done?

Patrick Goldstein
The Big Picture

It's such a quintessentially American thing to do that I'm surprised that someone hasn't already engraved it on our $20 bills: If you shoot off your mouth and hurl stupid insults at innocent people, the best thing to do is to apologize as quickly as possible. It's why Oliver Stone isn't going to become Mel Gibson, even though Stone's crackpot remarks about the "Jewish domination of the media" and the Holocaust sounded just as bad as anything Gibson said in his infamous drunken rant about the Jews after he was picked up by Malibu police for drunken driving.

Stone's offending interview with the Sunday Times of London promoting "South of the Border" doesn't appear to be online, but here is the summary from Haaretz of Israel:
Jewish control of the media is preventing an open discussion of the Holocaust, prominent Hollywood director Oliver Stone told the Sunday Times, adding that the U.S. Jewish lobby was controlling Washington's foreign policy for years.

In the Sunday interview, Stone reportedly said U.S. public opinion was focused on the Holocaust as a result of the "Jewish domination of the media," adding that an upcoming film of him aims to put Adolf Hitler and Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin "in context."

"There's a major lobby in the United States," Stone said, adding that "they are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington."

The famed Hollywood director of such films as Platoon and JFK, also said that while "Hitler was a Frankenstein," there was also a "Dr Frankenstein."

"German industrialists, the Americans and the British. He had a lot of support," Stone told the Sunday Times, adding that "Hitler did far more damage to the Russians than the Jewish people, 25 or 30 [million killed]."

So, what Stone said appears to be just the standard line of leftists outside the U.S. We just don't hear it much here.

Something that makes Stone sound exotic to Americans is that his mother was French (his father was a Gordon Gekko-like Jewish-American Wall Streeter), so he's more in touch with Continental conventional wisdom, which chiefly differs from American conventional wisdom in that it's not as neo.

Goldstein goes on:
I know this is going to be portrayed as yet another example of the terrible double standard in Hollywood, where lefties can say whatever they want and get away with it while conservatives are pilloried and symbolically burned at the stake. Or as Big Hollywood's John Nolte so succinctly put it: "Don't expect Oliver Stone to get the Mel Gibson treatment. Gibson's sin against Hollywood was producing 'The Passion of the Christ,' not the vile things that came out of his mouth. After all, this is the same industry that honors, continues to work with, and defends fugitive child rapist Roman Polanski. As long as your politics are in order, no 'Jewish domination of the media' comments can hurt you."

Nolte's last sentence is silly. Marlon Brando, whose leftist politics were of the purest Sacheen Littlefeather varietal, had to publicly grovel for most of a week after telling Larry King that Jewish studio bosses had helped the Civil Rights movement by casting black actors, so Jewish executives should similarly cast Latino actors now. Greg Easterbrook got fired by Michael Eisner's ESPN for blogging on The New Republic that Jewish studio executives shouldn't make gratuitously violent films.

Goldstein writes:
So where does this leave Oliver Stone? First off, unlike Gibson, who took forever to issue a weak apology for his anti-Semitic rant -- and still hasn't apologized for more recent racist, misogynistic ravings reported to have been made to the mother of his young child -- Stone issued a quick, forceful apology. He said very clearly that "Jews obviously do not control media or any other industry..."

The most exquisitely fun part of controlling media is the sheer self-contradictory absurdity of what you can force people to squeal in apology for mentioning your control of media. This kind of intimidating is to schoolyard bullying as Chateau Lafite Rothschild is to grape-flavored Sunny Delight.
Of course, for a filmmaker to make dark insinuations about a Jewish media cabal is sort of like a Republican officeholder advocating tax increases -- it can get you into a whale of trouble, even if, as this wry Jewish Journal post points out, it's not considered out of bounds for Jewish filmmakers to josh among themselves about the decline in Jewish domination of the film industry. If Stone were a comedian, he'd be able to push the envelope oh, so much further, since comics can get away with all sorts of outlandish, politically incorrect remarks without provoking a hailstorm of criticism.

In other words, who cares about factuality? All that matters anymore is "Whose side are you on?"
I guess if there is any lesson here, it's that Stone is a lot better off in American than in his beloved Venezuela, Cuba or Iran, where artists have languished in prison for years for making remarks far less rude than what Stone had to say about the Jews.

By the way, what's the deal with Chavez? Why is there so much Jewish animus toward him? I've read about a dozen articles accusing Chavez of anti-Semitism, but I can never find much meat in them. Is it just the dreaded Venezuela-Iran Axis of Doom? Or is it also that Chavez plays the role of the jester who calls attention to the fact of American domination of the world, and always seems on the verge of joking about Jewish domination of America?

69 comments:

CK said...

Anymore?

Anonymous said...

Steve, this was also covered by the Hollywood Reporter.

Anonymous said...

The sentence, "The Jews control the media" is misleading. Jewish persons are obviously very prominent in upper-level media jobs, but they don't all work in tandem or think alike, nor are such jobs the exclusive province of Jews.

l said...

Seems like if a newspaper wanted its readers to think that it wasn't controlled by Jews, it would assign someone other than a guy named 'Goldstein' to smack down Stone.

Now that questionning of the US's 'special relationship' with Israel, and dual-citizen control of US foreign policy is becoming more common, we can expect more such trials of Galileo.

As for your question about Hugo Chavez, I think the accusation of 'anti-semitism' is thrown at him because, by Latin American dictator standards, he's not really that bad. Political prisoners are not being shot en masse in sports stadiums. When the facts aren't particularly damning, call 'em 'anti-semites'.

Mr Lomez said...

Articles like this are why I love you, Mr. Sailer. Am I correctly inferring a certain, if tempered, reverence for Chavez? How beautifully unexpected.

Peter A said...

Stone's remarks about the Holocaust don't seem very controversial to me. It's quite true that the American and British elite had very little interest in offering asylum to German Jews. Hitler would have happily shipped all the German Jews to the US if we had offered to take them (and pay their way) in 1938. It's also no secret that people like Prescott Bush were fond of Hitler. It's also at least debatable that the Russians suffered more from World War II than the Jews - at least, 70 years later who is better off? However Stone seems to be ignoring the fact that a lot of the damage Russia suffered was self-inflicted. Still, if Stone's remarks are considered "hate speech" than God save us.

eh said...

Written by "Patrick Goldstein". Cool.

...but is the damage already done?

Gee, I dunno. Let's ask Mel Gibson.

jimbo said...

Anonymous,

I agree. Jerry Ford was right, too - there was no "Soviet domination" of eastern europe. After all, the Soviets often disagreed among themselves.

catperson said...

Jewish persons are obviously very prominent in upper-level media jobs, but they don't all work in tandem or think alike

All ethnicities work in tandem and think alike (i.e. Obama got record voter turn out from African Americans). Evolution has predisposed people to behave in ways that benefit their gene pool, as it's the most efficient way to replicate copies of your genes.

Jews aren't any different from any other ethnicity, except that they have an especially high (verbal) IQ which allows them to acquire the wealth, influence and verbal skills to do this on a far more powerful scale. They deserve to be admired for this and the root of much anti-semitism is simple jealousy.

Stone's point however is that Jewish overrepresentation in media (and other spheres of influence) combined with their passionate commitment to a single issue (Israel) has distorted U.S. foreign policy to Israel's benefit at the expense of American interests.

When members of the media use their high verbal IQ's to convince Americans that Sadam Hussein and Iran are threats to America when in actuality they were threats to Israel, Americans become embroiled in conflicts that drain her resources and damage her global prestigue. America's one sided support of Israel in the Israel/Palestinian conflict combined with its sanctions against Iraq in the 1990s are probably two of the main reasons Muslim extremists view America as a puppet for Israel and target regions of America with higher Jewish population (i.e. New York city).

Shawn said...

"This kind of intimidating is to schoolyard bullying as Chateau Lafite Rothschild is to grape-flavored Sunny Delight."

Please translate for the less worldly and less well-read.

Udolpho.com said...

Here's how it works. Notice that Japanese are a big presence in the auto industry? Fine. That blacks dominate the NBA? Sure. That men are the mainstay of engineering ranks? Well, yeah. That the French are chauvinists? Who would deny it.

But that Jews basically run Hollywood?

YOU RACIST MONSTER, APOLOGIZE OR YOUR CAREER IS OVER!!!

Meanwhile someone explain to me the career of Shia LaBeouf, because unless Jews promote their own it makes no sense.

Francois Lemoyne said...

Chavez has expropriated a bunch of assets in VZ, and driven the entrepreneurial and finance class out of the country. Subtlety in the free press and court of public opinion is lost on him as well - he has an uneducated mass to appeal to in the most simple terms. Sophisticated manipulation is not necessary in VZ. He is a case study on what efforts to counter the Jews influence look like in that culture and with that level of average IQ.

BTW, they do work in tandem and multiples of tandem and they do think alike almost across the board when it comes to immigration, race, israel, the holocaust/their own history and gentile white America as a culture and race.

It is the prohibitions that they enforce, that are becoming painful to watch, that lead to the obvious conclusion that they are in control. Criminalizing speech and thought in most of the west while remaining the most powerful and wealthy group will tend to do that.

John said...

"By the way, what's the deal with Chavez? Why is there so much Jewish animus toward him?"

If they attack Iran, he'll shut the oil off. Gotta demonise him to justify a simultaneous attack and takeover of Venezuela's oil fields.

Similar reason for the interest in Somalia, as the Gulf of Aden is an alternative for oil shipments that they would need when the Persian Gulf is shut down.

Anonymous said...

Steve, have you ever reviewed Wall Street by Oliver Stone? Awesome movie, by the way, for anyone that's interested in seeing what the street was like, sort of, back in the 1980s. There's a Wall Street 2: Money Never Sleeps coming out in late September, with Shia LaBeouf and Michael Douglas.

Another movie that'd I reccomend you reviewing: Do the Right Thing by Spike Lee.

Anonymous said...

"Please translate for the less worldly and less well-read."

You are sitting at a computer with web access.  You can plug "Chateau Lafite Rothschild" into any of a half-dozen search engines and answer your own question in seconds.  Yet despite this wealth at your fingertips, you are too lazy or clueless to use it.  If you think you have what it takes to govern yourself, you are wrong.

"If they attack Iran, he'll shut the oil off. Gotta demonise him to justify a simultaneous attack and takeover of Venezuela's oil fields."

Chavez is driving Venezuela's production downward steadily by destroying every company foolish enough to do business with him.  There is already a lot less oil to cut off, and over time VZ's gasoline and other subsidies will make it a net debtor.  At that time the gravy train collapses and Chavez is dead.

Whiskey said...

Chavez jails Jews, closed Synagoges, rails publicly against Jews as "racists" and calls for their "cleansing" and has hosted Iran, terrorist-Jew killer #1 (Buenos Aires anyone) including elements of the IRGC which also blew up the Beirut Embassy and Khobar Towers, the latter being convicted in a civil trial in the US during Clinton's administration.

So yes, Jews have serious issues with Chavez.

Goldstein DEFENDED Stone.

Stone's words were odious. America and Britain created Hitler? Please. They were the only two nations that in the West, stood up to them. Neither signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

From Commentary Magazine:

:Government-owned media outlets have published anti-Semitic tracts with increasing frequency. Pro-Chávez groups have publicly disseminated copies of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the early-20th-century czarist forgery outlining an alleged worldwide Jewish conspiracy to seize control of the world. Prominent Jewish figures have been publicly denounced for supposed disloyalty to the “Bolívarian” cause, and “Semitic banks” have been accused of plotting against the regime. Citing suspicions of such plots, Chávez’s government has gone so far as to stage raids on Jewish elementary schools and other places of meeting. The anti-Zionism expressed by the government is steadily spilling over into street-level anti-Semitism, in which synagogues are vandalized with a frequency and viciousness never before seen in the country.

Whiskey said...

More:

Graffiti, often bearing the signature of the Venezuelan Communist party and its youth organization, have appeared on synagogues and Jewish buildings, with messages like “mata niños” (“child killers”), “judios afuera” (“Jews get out”), “judios perros” (“Jews are dogs”), and swastikas linked to stars of David by an equals sign.

On television, Mario Silva, the host of a popular pro-Chávez show called La Hojilla (“The Razor Blade”), has repeatedly named prominent Venezuelan Jews as anti-government conspirators and called on other Jews to denounce them. “Rabbi Jacobo Benzaquén and Rabbi Pynchas Brener are actively participating in the conspiracy in conjunction with the media,” Silva has said. “So as not to be called an anti-Semite,” he added, “I repeat that those Jewish businessmen not involved in the conspiracy should say so.”

Armed government agents have conducted two unannounced raids on the Hebraica club during the past five years. The first occurred during the early morning hours of November 29, 2004, when two dozen men wearing masks invaded the elementary school just as pupils were arriving for class. In the second, which came shortly after midnight on December 2, 2007, government agents broke through the front gate and disrupted hundreds of celebrants at a wedding party in the nearby synagogue. In each case, allegedly, the agents were looking for weapons and other evidence of “subversive activity.”

The last few years have seen the creation of a terrorist group in Venezuela calling itself Hizballah in Latin America. The group has already claimed responsibility for placing two small bombs outside the American embassy in Caracas in October 2006—one of them, it is thought, intended for the embassy of Israel. Although neither of the two bombs detonated, the group’s website hailed the man who planted them as a “brother mujahedin” and has urged other, simultaneous attacks throughout Venezuela in solidarity with Hizballah in Lebanon.
------------------
From Huffington Post:

* "To publicly challenge every Jew that you find in the street, shopping center or park to take a stand shouting at them slogans in favor of Palestine and against that abortion: Israel."
* "Denounce publicly, with names and last names the members of powerful Jewish groups present in Venezuela"
* "...capitalist agents as these Zionist Hebrews are the thing that hurts them most is the pocket (including Jehovah) it is inappropriate to buy their products and go to their stores and to the stores, supermarkets, restaurants, etc., that have relations with them or are owned by them"
* "...question the existence in Venezuela of educational institutions for Jews only"
* "...Public, massive, periodic concentrations not only in front of the Israeli embassy but also in front of all Jewish institutions"
* "Detect and watch, by the intelligence entities of the State and by the social comptroller of the organized peoples, the undercover agents of Mossad and NGOs and other groups of the so called civil society (including the filthy ("escuálidos") students of the private and autonomous universities) that have received advise and financing from the artificial state of israel,"
* "Purge the government institutions of those filthy officials, that with or without the red beret act in favor of the interests of Zionist groups located in our country."
* "Nationalization of the companies and confiscation of the assets of the Zionist jews that support the excesses of the nazi fascist state of israel and the immediate donation of said assets to the Palestinians, victims of the present holocaust."

Whiskey said...

From Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-debow/venezuelan-kristallnacht_b_163202.html

* "To publicly challenge every Jew that you find in the street, shopping center or park to take a stand shouting at them slogans in favor of Palestine and against that abortion: Israel."
* "Denounce publicly, with names and last names the members of powerful Jewish groups present in Venezuela"
* "...capitalist agents as these Zionist Hebrews are the thing that hurts them most is the pocket (including Jehovah) it is inappropriate to buy their products and go to their stores and to the stores, supermarkets, restaurants, etc., that have relations with them or are owned by them"
* "...question the existence in Venezuela of educational institutions for Jews only"
* "...Public, massive, periodic concentrations not only in front of the Israeli embassy but also in front of all Jewish institutions"
* "Detect and watch, by the intelligence entities of the State and by the social comptroller of the organized peoples, the undercover agents of Mossad and NGOs and other groups of the so called civil society (including the filthy ("escuálidos") students of the private and autonomous universities) that have received advise and financing from the artificial state of israel,"
* "Purge the government institutions of those filthy officials, that with or without the red beret act in favor of the interests of Zionist groups located in our country."
* "Nationalization of the companies and confiscation of the assets of the Zionist jews that support the excesses of the nazi fascist state of israel and the immediate donation of said assets to the Palestinians, victims of the present holocaust."

Whiskey said...

So yes, I think Jews, who are LESS than 1% of Venezuela, and are absent from much of the economic life, have a point. Chavez IS persecuting them, for nothing else to scapegoat and appeal to Catholic anti-Semitism and get in good with his Iranian buddies.

That latter is a violation of the Monroe Doctrine, Chavez should be removed because weakness by the US invites attack.

Anti-Jewish Sentiment in the US is a function of lots and lots of Mexicans, who being devout Catholics hate Jews a lot.

The original article in the Times Online is behind Murdoch's new paywall, that's why you can't find the original.

Leftists are covering for Stone because they share his values: America "created" Hitler (along with England), "put Hitler and Stalin in Context" and so on.

Stone is un-American. As Un-American as Obama. He's not had a hit or even MADE MONEY since Wall Street. Alexander? Lost a couple of hundred of millions of dollars. Why is he working, being a reputed coke-head and all, alienating huge swaths of the audience (with anti-Americanism) and such?

Because Hollywood hates the audience too. See my latest post --

Stone's continued presence in Hollywood is Exhibit A that Hollywood is uninterested in making money and is so debauched and weird that absent a few non-Hollywood guys like Lasseter, their connection to ordinary Americans is about that of the sex-change Wachowski to digging women.

Whiskey said...

Oh, and the latest Stone stuff? He thinks America's enemy Ahmadinejad is just peachy. The guy who wants to jack up oil prices to $300 a barrel (try driving your car then) and conduct nuclear terrorism against the US. Heck the UAE Foreign minister while in Aspen begged the US or Israel to bomb Iran. Saying if they are as bad as they are now, imagine them with nukes. This from a country who has 70% of their business with Iran.
--------------------------------
The central problem with Stone (and guys like many of the commenters here AND STEVE) is that they cannot see that Human nature is violent and depressing and the oasis of stability in the West has to be defended ruthlessly. Chavez, Stalin, Ahmadinejad are thugs. They take what they want until they find fear: of retaliation.

Technology spreading gives them the equalizer.

Consider the Taliban. Had the US been unluckier, the evacuations in the WTC less self-organized, the US could have lost 10,000 or even 20,000 dead that day. Had Zacharais Moussaioue not been arrested, the jihadis would have had an extra man aboard Flight 93 and would have likely confiscated the cell phones. So no fight-back among the passengers, and the White House or Capitol would have been destroyed, decapitating most of the Executive or Legislative branch.

An act of War, OK'd by the Taliban. Who HAD NO FEAR OF THE US. NO FEAR.

Stone's solution to everything is the Euro solution to everything which is the Buchanon paleo solution to everything which is far too often, Steve's solution to everything: moralizing about who is most muy moral. To quote SNL.

Instead of reasonable, judicious, and repeated doses of FEAR onto America's enemies, in quantities to deter them but not drive them to despairing suicide-murder.

Indeed with nuclear proliferation a Democracy has to be more RUTHLESS than a dictatorship. No one doubts Kim Jong Il's, or Ahmadinejad's, or Pakistan's ISI ability to use nukes to kill people. Most everyone doubts that the US or Britain would retaliate in any meaningful way if we were nuked. So some "auto-policy" outside any stoppage must be constructed and publicized.

cherub's revenge said...

I said -

Seems like if a newspaper wanted its readers to think that it wasn't controlled by Jews, it would assign someone other than a guy named 'Goldstein' to smack down Stone.

I believe the word you are looking for is "chutzpah".

Anonymous said...

Those dastardly Jews! Things were so much better in the olden time, when the WASPs controlled Hollywood.

Anonymous said...

and the White House or Capitol would have been destroyed, decapitating most of the Executive or Legislative branch.

Would have been tragic, to be sure. But hard to see how it wouldn't improve our situation to have most of these cretins disappear.

MQ said...

Things were so much better in the olden time, when the WASPs controlled Hollywood.

LOL. I always wonder why none of our resident anti-semites ever talks about how evil MGM was in the 1940s and 50s.

Classic Whiskey post, it was only lacking the connection to how women will only respect alpha males who inspire FEAR.

Steve Sailer said...

Whiskey,

I've read all those talking points, too, but if you read them closely, there's not much there at all. They sound like the SPLC going after John Tanton.

Moreover, when you read less tendentious sources, even these talking points turn out to be way overblown.


they all tend to vanish when you read more from less tendentious sources, such as, say, Jewish groups in Venezuela.

John Craig said...

"The most exquisitely fun part of controlling media is the sheer self-contradictory absurdity of what you can force people to squeal in apology for mentioning your control of media."

Perfect.

John Craig said...

Steve --
You don't have to post this comment but it's a related matter which should be brought to you attention:

http://justnotsaid.blogspot.com/2010/07/rape.html

Matra said...

Patrick Goldstein has responded with another blog entry that contains the following:

I know that some people are outraged by Stone's remarks, which included the nutty charge that America's support for Israel was the result of Jewish domination of the media. For one thing, it's pretty lame on Stone's part to ignore the fact that the U.S. is a natural ally for Israel on its own merits, since it's the only true democracy in the Middle East. On the other hand, I was surprised to discover that many of the people who left comments on my original blog post about Stone seemed convinced that the Jews actually do control both the media and the entertainment business, apparently because a lot of Jews work in media and showbiz. I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but that is transparently dumb on every level.

Goldstein is another one of those liberals who is 'progressive' on everything...except Israel. No one can figure it out!

jody said...

udolpho posted before me, but i make this counterargument every time, and i've never seen it refuted:

blacks are not good at basketball. not only is the average black person not in the NBA, but the average person of any race has not even met a single black person who ever played in the NBA for even one game.

where are all these black men who are good at basketball? i just don't see them. all i see is poor, down of their luck black americans, chubby and getting chubbier, slowly eating and drinking themselves to death, waiting for diabetes to come while watching MTV and BET.

where are all these great black basketball players? i don't see them anywhere that hundreds of black americans congregate. loitering at the mall, filling up the movie theater parking lot after sundown, walking around downtown, where are all the 6 foot 9 hoopsters? what a total myth that blacks are good at basketball.

likewise with this patrick goldstein person. what a total myth that jews have actively tried to take control of television news and newspaper publishing. who has ever personally met this patrick goldstein guy? that's one single guy, out of millions! what a total crock this "jewish" thing is. i've met dozens of jews who did not write for a newspaper, so there!

Anonymous said...

Can we just agree that Jews are a media market-dominant minority?

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/19/opinion/oe-stein19

Who runs Hollywood? C'mon

December 19, 2008|JOEL STEIN

I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe "the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews," down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.

Anonymous said...

Steve asks: By the way, what's the deal with Chavez? Why is there so much Jewish animus toward him? I've read about a dozen articles accusing Chavez of anti-Semitism, but I can never find much meat in them. Is it just the dreaded Venezuela-Iran Axis of Doom? Or is it also that Chavez plays the role of the jester who calls attention to the fact of American domination of the world, and always seems on the verge of joking about Jewish domination of America?

From Larry King's interview with Vicente Fox back in October 2007:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVe_sZkvRY8

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0710/08/lkl.01.html

KING: E-mail from Mrs. Gonzalez in Elizabeth, New Jersey. "Mr. Fox, I would like to know how you feel about the possibility of having a Latin America united with one currency?"

FOX: Long term, very long term. What we propose together, President Bush and myself, it's ALCA, which is a trade union for all of the Americas. And everything was running fluently until Hugo Chavez came. He decided to isolate himself. He decided to combat the idea and destroy the idea...

KING: It's going to be like the euro dollar, you mean?

FOX: Well, that would be long, long term. I think the processes to go, first step into is trading agreement. And then further on, a new vision, like we are trying to do with NAFTA.

IHTG said...

It is possible that certain political elements are spreading the meme that Chavez is a major-league antisemite in order to co-opt powerful Jews against Chavez's regime.
Using the antisemitism meme for their own benefit.

Anonymous said...

The sentence, "The Jews control the media" is misleading. Jewish persons are obviously very prominent in upper-level media jobs, but they don't all work in tandem or think alike, nor are such jobs the exclusive province of Jews.

I guess you must have missed all the JournoList stories.

And that book by the Rooskie - what was his name? Solzh-a-something-or-other?

And that Swedish banker, WHOSE NAME IS STILL BEING CENSORED BY GOOGLE.



PS: When you have some spare time, check out Gareth Jones's interview with Meir Wallach-Finkelstein.

Or read Chang and Halliday on the work of Grigori Voitinsky and Mikhail Gruzenberg in teaching Marxist theory [and funnelling Soviet weaponry] to Sun Yat-sen and Mao Tse-tung.

Learn names like Gesya Gelfman and Leon Czolgosz and Dmitry Bogrov.

I could go on and on and on all night.

PRCalDude said...

Whiskey,

Sorry, too long, didn't read.

-------------

Won't Twoof come to the defense of his benefactors?

Anonymous said...

I am absolutely certain Steve Sailer is Whiskey. He has created this crackpot person so everyone looks good attacking him.

I am sorry but I simply refuse to believe Whiskey is a real person, no way. Steve stop the pretending.

Anonymous said...

Peter A. said, "It's also at least debatable that the Russians suffered more from World War II than the Jews"

I think it is more than 'at least' debatable. Russia, not the entire USSR, probably lost 13 million from 1941 to 1945.

Also, I would throw the Ukrainians into the mix. Combine their losses in the Holodomor with another 6 million killed in WW2 and they lost about 12 million in under 15 years.

l said...

It's 'kristallnacht' in Caracas? Ha ha ha.

l said...

Haim Saban proceeds to prove Stone's point:

http://michaelsantomauro.blogspot.com/2010/07/jewish-media-power-in-motion-this-time.html

Francois Lemoyne said...

"Meanwhile someone explain to me the career of Shia LaBeouf, because unless Jews promote their own it makes no sense."

On target. That was my first thought on seeing that clown. Second thought was maybe there is hope after all if they are that self-absorbed/self-indulgent/stupid. As Kmac's recent Madoff piece suggests, high IQ selectively applied can lead to lethal stupidity.

Anonymous said...

Corrected link to Grigori Voitinsky.

TGGP said...

There's a lefty blog called Three Way Fight which, to its credit, notes that fascism is another radical alternative to the status quo rather than some distilled essence of it. They're anti-Chavez as well as anti-Islamist because they see such varieties of anti-American populism as being quasi-fascistic. James Petras takes the opposite view, finding such non-American radical movements to be the only alternative to capitalism since the proletariat has been fully co-opted (the Black Panthers/Maoists used the term "labor aristocracy" to refer to the first-world working class). He also writes a lot about Jews.

asdfasdfasdfs said...

This is funny as hell. But if Oliver Stone really had guts, he would have said (1) German bankers supported the Nazis ONLY BECAUSE of the communist threat. German conservatives didn't like nor want the Nazis. They only hoped to use Nazis against the commies, among whom Jews were prominent. (2) While it's true that the Liberal Jewish media don't much talk about 20 million Soviet people killed in WWII, it says NEXT to the nothing about the fact that Stalin killed around 20 million people WITH CRUCIAL HELP FROM JEWISH COMMUNISTS.

Will Stone have the guts to say something like WE KNOW ALMOST NOTHING ABOUT JEWISH COMMUNIST VILLAINS WHO KILLED MILLIONS IN THE 20TH CENTURY BECAUSE OF LIBERAL-LEFTIST JEWISH CONTROL OF THE MEDIA?

That would be really courageous. As vile as Nazism was, it never would have risen to such heights in Germany if not for the rise of communism led by Jews. It was fear of communism that persuaded German conservatives to RELUCTANTLY support Nazism as the lesser evil. As it turned out, Nazism proved to be an even greater evil, but who was to know back in 1933?

asdfasdfasdf said...

Was Stone's father like Gordon Gekko? I recall Stone saying his father was old school, the very opposite of Gekko. Gekko was supposed to represent 80s Reaganite GREED.

I recall Stone saying in an interview that his father was like the Hal Holbrook character in the movie. A honorable man. Of course, he could be shitting us.

asdfasdfasdf said...

<>

Of course, you're right. After all, there are Jewish cabbies and plumbers. But when we say 'Jews control the media', we are talking of prominent Jews and pointing out the fact that lots of top journalists and pundits are Jewish--and also the fact that most Jews agree with powerful Jews on most issues.

When we say Germans killed 5-6 million Jews, we don't every German was involved. Heck, some Germans risked their own lives to save Jews. Others resisted the Nazis in their own personal ways. And not everyone in the Wehrmacht took part in killing of Jews. However, the fact remains that the German leadership carried out the genocide with the help of many Germans. Also, majority of Germans supported the Nazis.

So, to the extent that the Jewish elite does control the media and most Jews in America more or less agree and support the positions and policies of the Jewish-dominated media, we can speak of Jewish control of the media. After all, suppose the top media guys were to die suddenly and be replaced randomly by other Jews. Given that Jews are 85% liberal, the chances are the media will go on being what it is: Jewish-oriented, Jewish-biased, and Zionist.
The Jewish elite members are liberal and leftist because they arose from the Jewish community which is mostly liberal and leftist.

asfasdfasdf said...

"Articles like this are why I love you, Mr. Sailer. Am I correctly inferring a certain, if tempered, reverence for Chavez? How beautifully unexpected."

Chavez is a stupid clown, an egomaniac, an economic retard, and a thug. But he's a genuine nationalist, which is good.
And given that US is run by the likes of NY TIMES, WAll STREET, and Obama(puppet of Jewish power), I don't feel must hostility toward Venezuela.
Though a 'leftist', Chavez is actually closer to Mussolini in terms of personality and style. He's very latin, and maybe a little bit of negro blood made him kinda funkyass too. But he's one ugly mofo. He looks like a cross between Mussolini, a mule, and Curly. He's no Che Guevara, a scumbag but a beautiful scumbag. If Chavez had the looks of Che or even the young Castro, he'd be a lot popular.. which goes to show the so-called 'rationalist' left is really into worship of 'great men'.

But the best leader of Latin America was Pinochet.

asdfasasdf said...

"Nolte's last sentence is silly. Marlon Brando, whose leftist politics were of the purest Sacheen Littlefeather varietal, had to publicly grovel for most of a week after telling Larry King that Jewish studio bosses had helped the Civil Rights movement by casting black actors, so Jewish executives should similarly cast Latino actors now. Greg Easterbrook got fired by Michael Eisner's ESPN for blogging on The New Republic that Jewish studio executives shouldn't make gratuitously violent films."

It depends on the context and situation. Stone is half-Jewish but Brando was not. Also, Brando was all washed-up by then and may have groveled because he needed special help from Hollywood bosses. (I think he was especially broke after spending a fortune to defend his son in court.)
Easterbrook, like Brando, is not Jewish.

But it's okay for a Jew to say things about Jews. Joel Stein wrote a column about Jews totally owning Hollywood but no problemo. Jews in the media figure when a Jew says it, he's either showing off or making CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. After all, why would a Jew or half-Jew say stuff for 'neo-nazi' reasons, that is unless one happens to be totally cuckoo like Bobby Fisher?

Same is true with blacks and white liberals. Harry Reid got away with the "Obama talks white than Negro-like" remark because he's a liberal. Since he's a liberal, he couldn't have possibly meant racial malice, right? And when Bill Cosby said harsh words about black urban culture, he didn't get in too much trouble and was even lauded in some liberal circles. The idea was 'since he's a black guy, it must have been concerned and constructive criticism, not a putdown of blacks.'

Brando and Easterbrook didn't happen to have any Jewish genes or credentials. Sure, Brando was a leftist but he was always an eccentric kind of trouble-making leftist who wasn't much liked in Hollywood. Coppola had to struggle and sweat to cast Brando as Vito Corleone.

Besides, Stone said nothing that was really anti-Jewish. He made criticism about Jewish power, and to an extent, Stone may have been breaking the ice. Indeed, what he said might even be good for Jews, as many goyim will now think, "how nice that not all Jews think tribally and some even speak the truth. I'm beginning to like Jews."
There is a perception that all Jews stick together, and Stone, by being the odd-Jew-out, gives the impression that it is not so.

Also, he blamed Hitler's rise on GERMAN bankers and said NOTHING of Jewish bankers' role in the rise of communism. He said nothing about Armand Hammer that pile of ____. And he praised Stalin for defeating Hitler but didn't say anything about Stalin-Jewish collaboration in murdering tens of millions of Slavic Christians.

Anonymous said...

When members of the media use their high verbal IQ's to convince Americans that Sadam Hussein and Iran are threats to America ..


The majority of Jews in the media opposed war with Iraq. At least, they seemed to - perhaps with their "high verbal IQ's" they were able to appear to oppose was while actually encouraging it?

Jews don't dominate the media because of their "high verbal IQ". They do it because they are aggressive about advancing their own interests. They've even described the "JournoList" as having networking and finding positions as its primary purpose. The Old Boys Network is dead and gone, but the Jewish Network operates very efficiently and out in the open.

Big Bill said...

Andrew Wiles is married to Nada Canaan Wiles. Is she, by chance, the grand-daughter of Dr. Tawfik Canaan, one of the Christian intelligentsia in the Holy Land before the recent unpleasantness?

The name seemed odd so I looked it up and ran into Tawfik. The guy's history is interesting, particularly his research into the folk culture of Palestine and Palestinians (which at the time included Christians, Muslims and Jews).

Reading the Wikipedia article, I felt a certain emotional resonance with his growing concerns about open borders, mass immigration, and the blessings the new immigrants supposedly brought to everyone in Palestine, when in fact they were experiencing a Reconquista.

Fred said...

For all the sturm & drang about Patrick Goldstein's protestations about Jews controlling the media, let's note two points about his posts on this issue:

1) He thinks it's wrong for Haim Saban to pressure the network to drop Stone's miniseries.

2) He thinks it would be similarly wrong to censure Mel Gibson.

"Meanwhile someone explain to me the career of Shia LaBeouf, because unless Jews promote their own it makes no sense."

Shia LaBeouf got his breakout role in The Battle of Shaker Heights, which was entered in a contest run by two Jews named Matt Damon and Ben Affleck.

"This is funny as hell. But if Oliver Stone really had guts, he would have said (1) German bankers supported the Nazis ONLY BECAUSE of the communist threat. German conservatives didn't like nor want the Nazis. They only hoped to use Nazis against the commies, among whom Jews were prominent."

Jews were also prominent among German capitalists, who were just as threatened by the Communists. And the Nazis were such a great bullwark against the Communists that Hitler invited them to takeover half of Poland.

"It was fear of communism that persuaded German conservatives to RELUCTANTLY support Nazism as the lesser evil."

False dichotomy. They could have supported the Social Democrats as an alternative to both the Nazis and the Communists. No one forced them to choose between two evils.

"They're anti-Chavez as well as anti-Islamist because they see such varieties of anti-American populism as being quasi-fascistic."

Calling Chavez a fascist is an insult to fascism. Post WWII fascists, for all their faults, at least generally left their countries in better shape economically than when they found them. Someone like Pinochet implemented Milton Friedman-inspired reforms that have given Chile the stablest economy in Latin America since then.

Big Bill said...

Anonymous sez: "The sentence, "The Jews control the media" is misleading. Jewish persons are obviously very prominent in upper-level media jobs, but they don't all work in tandem or think alike, nor are such jobs the exclusive province of Jews."

I think the words you are looking for are "disparate impact" and "hegemony" and "institutional racism".

Intent really doesn't matter. No secret meetings or Protocols of the Elders of Hollywood are needed. Dominance and control can be determined by mere statistics.

As my people move from the majority to the minority, we will inevitably have to use the very tools and logic that our replacements use against us. Pity, that, in our own country.

There is an irony to all this, however.

As Dersh, Gould and Nozick pointed out in their "Thinking about Thinking" course, Affirmative Action, as ratified by Justice Powell in his _Bakke_ decision (aka "the Harvard plan"), was an effort to reach out to other gentiles in order to prevent Harvard from being turned into a predominately Jewish school.

Hence diversity and all the doctrines it has spawned are returning to their origins.

Anonymous said...

I don't get this at all. Why is saying the Jews control Hollywood controversial. If Mel Gibson or Oliver Stone while in their cups blurted out - "The Jews control the diamond trade" - would this be news?

It was about a decade ago that Tom Hanks was on Saturday Night Live and did a quiz show skit called "Jew or Not Jew?". The contestants had to guess which famous Hollywood stars were Jewish. I seem to remember that all of them were Jewish. I was surprised at the time but from then on I assumed most stars who weren't black were Jews.

The public revelation that Hollywood is Jewish is like when Charlton Heston screams "Soylent Green is people". Yeah, well we knew that - so what? It was not much of a secret for anyone with half a brain.

After watching Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Conan O'Brian, and Megyn Kelly on TV I sometimes feel the need to get drunk and reveal that the Irish control the media. At least that would be a refreshing change from all the endless hubbub about the Jews.

Maybe there are some iSteve readers who don't know that the Jews are very influential in Hollywood - but I doubt it. I guess some non-Jews don't like that. But if they are so concerned why don't they just make their own movies?

I took a film class in college. I don't remember any anti-gentile discrimination. I'm now bombarded with junk mail ads about digital film making. I'm not being excluded from making movies. I'm being harangued and pursued.

The new wave of movie making may very well be on Roku not in Hollywood studios. Jews and Hollywood are yesterday's news. When I was in film class the cost of film stock to shoot a feature was said to be two million dollars. Today the latest Harry Potter feature cost $29.1M for the initial release prints.

These kind of entrance costs tend to entrench the existing players, which means, I guess, the Jews. But the rules are changing quickly. Box office receipts and physical movie theaters are becoming much less important. Distribution of films by Roku is dirt cheap - no film, no theaters, no Jews.

Personally I like Jews but if it bothers you, then stop complaining and just run them out of the movie business. The Jews are being run out of the diamond business by the Russians and the Indians, you know.

The worst thing about antisemitism for me is the self pity.

Albertosaurus

Big Bill said...

My goodness, Whiskey, when are you going to face facts, make Aliyah, and fight for your people in the Jewish army!

Antisemitism is the 2000 year old hate! It is due to the nations resisting leadership by the Jews as Humanity's God-given teachers (aish.org). The goyim are always going to fight God and God's chosen teachers.

What normal, healthy Jew wants to live with such creatures in Exile when Eretz Yisroel awaits? You cannot even follow all of God's commandments in Golus and be a true, Godfearing, Godfollowing Jew!

You live a tortured fearful life in Exile, it is clear from your writing, so why not end it and do as God wants? Make Aliyah, and rise up from the dreck and shmutz of the Nations.

Surely you must realize that we are not worth it and will never start a Venezuelan war over the Monroe Doctrine, don't you?

Anonymous said...

If Stone were a comedian, he'd be able to push the envelope oh, so much further, since comics can get away with all sorts of outlandish, politically incorrect remarks without provoking a hailstorm of criticism.

Please give an example of a famous comedian making "outlandish" comments about Jews (i.e. saying anything even remotely critical of Jews) without suffering consequences.

Anonymous said...

asfasdfasdf said...Will Stone have the guts to say something like WE KNOW ALMOST NOTHING ABOUT JEWISH COMMUNIST VILLAINS WHO KILLED MILLIONS IN THE 20TH CENTURY BECAUSE OF LIBERAL-LEFTIST JEWISH CONTROL OF THE MEDIA?

Ynet news had a decent editorial on this called Stalin's Jews

adsfasfasdfasf said...

asfasdfasdf said..."Will Stone have the guts to say something like WE KNOW ALMOST NOTHING ABOUT JEWISH COMMUNIST VILLAINS WHO KILLED MILLIONS IN THE 20TH CENTURY BECAUSE OF LIBERAL-LEFTIST JEWISH CONTROL OF THE MEDIA?"

Ynet news had a decent editorial on this called Stalin's Jews


It's interesting. Before we could speak of Stalin's Jews, it was Jews' Stalin. Jews who controlled the early yrs of the USSR felt they were too conspicuous and sought to hide behind unimaginative, dimwitted, bureaucratic, paper shuffling, and machine politician Stalin. They thought he'd be a pushover. But Stalin had risen up the ranks as a cutthroat fighter and ruthless operator and knew well how to outmanuever the Jews who sought to use him. So, it went from Jews' Stalin to Stalin's Jews. And then Stalin killed a whole bunch of Jews.

There is a parallel to this in the rise of Hitler. German bankers, industrialists, and remants of the noble class thought he was just a rabble rousing clown who could be appropriated and bought, repackaged to serve their interests. But, Hitler also rose up as a fighter and radical and had the wits, muscle, and will to outmanuever the conservative forces that had sought to use him.
(It's ironic that Jews, who suffered much under Hitler, have pulled the same stunt with Obama. Obama surely knows this and is trying to outmanuever the Jews who bought and sold him, but he's too much of a slick phony to pull off anything spectacular.)

But there's one difference. Stalin later liquidated the very people who helped him to power whereas Hitler, though having outmanuevered his supporters, did not go after their wealth or positions.
This could be due to the nature of the different ideologies. Communism was supposed to be purely revolutionary and rebellious, thus every firebrand or thinking communist could be a potential threat to Stalin. So, Stalin feared other 'Stalins' plotting to overthrow him and take power. So, he had to kill all the little would-be stalins, lenins, and trotskys so that he alone could be the One and Only Big Stalin.

Nazism, on the other hand, developed as an ideology of unity and obedience. It was understood that the people--rich, middle, and poor--should all pledge loyalty to the great fuhrer and that was that. Though Nazism had a revolutionary element, its core emphasis was on national/racial consensus. So, Hitler had less to fear. But when it came to OUTSIDERS like Jews, he got really ruthless.

adsfasdsdf said...

Oliver Stone's Jewish problem...

I think because Oliver Stone was born half-Jewish/half gentile, began on the Right and then moved to the Left, craves fame & fortune but believes in 'social justice', and blabbity and blibbity, there's a one-man civil war raging inside his soul. Even his leftist movies tend to be politically incorrect. Born on 4th has a typical lefty ending, but there is much that defiles PC notions. Blacks at the VA hospital were hideous. And some blacks in Platoon were also pretty brutal and nasty. ANY GIVEN SUNDAY is both sympathetic to black athletes and angrily frustrated with their bulljive.

Anyway, Stone is like John Milius crossed with Gillo Pontecorvo. He grew up a Goldwater all-American conservative, went to Vietnam, got disillusioned and got caught up in 60s upheaval, and he's one messed up guy. But he probably likes being messed up because that's where the action is(as with Woods character in Salvador), creatively speaking. In a way, he probably identified with Nixon and even Dubya cuz they too were conflicted characters. Nixon didn't rise as an establishment conservative and Dubya wanted to reject the whole thing before being dragged back into it.

As a sports and war-and-guns maniac, Stone loves the man of power, the man's man. But he's also an intellectual and avid reader, so he loves ideas too. But the world of ideas is often at odds with world of action. Action often follows ideas, but action also often follows instincts, which are often non- or anti-idealistic. Stone wrote the script for the Scarface remake and it's clear that Stone admires Tony. He's a man of instinct than ideas but he's a man of action. He has big balls. He topples the half-Jewish/half-Cuban car dealer druglord. The Jew may be smarter but Tony has more guts. And though Wall Street is anti-greed, it's obvious Stone admires Gekko as a man of instict and will to power. And Jim Morrison was portrayed the same way in The DOORS. He may have been crazy but he compromised nothing for his art and brand of crazy living. Stone may feel that Jews are too cunning, calculating, shrewd, and manipulative to be REAL MEN. Those are good qualities to gain power and keep it, but they lack the excitement of raw honest power that arises from the gut level. A Jew is more like Hyman Roth. A real man is like Tony Montana. Stone has both Roth and Montana inside of him, and so he struggles but he has fun with it.

catperson said...

The majority of Jews in the media opposed war with Iraq.

I don't know where you get that idea. The media was extremely pro-Iraq war during the early years of the Bush administration. The normally liberal New York Times has been criticized for being especially active in promoting the war ( http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/oct2005/mill-o18.shtml ) and the rest of the media looks to the NY Times to set the agenda. A subset of media figures who are normally liberal were surprising hawkish when it came to war with Iraq such as Peter Beinart (former editor of The New Republic) or NY Times columnist Thomas Friedman or New Yorker editor David Remnick, or Clinton administration CIA analyst and writer Kenneth Pollack (who wrote the Threatening Storm; a book credited with convincing liberals to support the war), film maker Steven Spielberg and even shock jocks like Howard Stern. Indeed the media was so pro-Iraq war that even liberal Hollywood booed film maker Michael Moore when he denounced the war during his Oscar speech.


At least, they seemed to - perhaps with their "high verbal IQ's" they were able to appear to oppose was while actually encouraging it?

Certainly high verbal IQ is helpful when speaking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time. High verbal IQ is also useful in convincing other liberals that the war was motivated by corporate oil greed while concealing the real motive. Also, a lot of the media who supported the war quickly turned against it once Sadam was toppled and no longer a threat.

Jews don't dominate the media because of their "high verbal IQ". They do it because they are aggressive about advancing their own interests.

All ethnic groups are aggressive in promoting their own interests. It seems unfair to single out Jews in this regard, just because they are way better at it than others.

High verbal IQ certainly plays a huge role in virtually all media positions from writing columns to stand up comedy to being a pundit or talk show host to being a popular blogger. Media is extremely competitive and only the fittest tend to survive.

Gc said...

Who others did raise against Hitler than the German christian conservatives? It was not the former social democrats or the communist, who would party with SA after a good street fight. I have an impression that many former hardcore nazis became social democrats after the war. The anticapitalist tendencies of the Nazi movement (e.g socialist Goebbels) were there even after the Night of the Long Knives, which (the stripping of the far left nazis from power) was demanded by the conservatives in exchange for their support.

catperson said...

I don't get this at all. Why is saying the Jews control Hollywood controversial. If Mel Gibson or Oliver Stone while in their cups blurted out - "The Jews control the diamond trade" - would this be news?

Because if people get the impression that Jews control the media, they will begin to question why the media is so biased in its coverage of various issues in the middle east, and then public opinion will be harder to manipulate.

Udolpho.com said...

Fred, you ignorant slut, Shia has never "broken out"...he has sandbagged every movie he has been in, and onscreen reads as flat as a pancake...the guy should be starring in some TBS syndicated series about a nerd detective, not headlining major Hollywood releases next to the likes of Josh Brolin and Michael Douglas. Only a fellow Jew (like Shia's protector, Spielberg) could see any appeal.

Ditto that fat fuck, Jonah Hill. Not even remotely ready for primetime, but in a town run by Jews no one can see that.

Anonymous said...

"Not even remotely ready for primetime, but in a town run by Jews no one can see that."

I think Jonah Hill is a decent comic actor. Did you see 'Cyrus'?

Anyway, are there not a few successful gentile actors around who are "not ready for prime time"?

Sorry to see the Jew bug has bitten Udolpho so hard.

Fred said...

"Only a fellow Jew (like Shia's protector, Spielberg) could see any appeal."

I'm not a fan of Mr. The Beef, but clearly some non-Jews (e.g., Affleck and Damon, among others) have seen an appeal.

As for Jonah Hill, you're on crack. That kid is funny. Go watch Forgetting Sarah Marshall or Superbad.

Victoria said...

"Those dastardly Jews! Things were so much better in the olden time, when the WASPs controlled Hollywood."

If, as Gabler says, the Jews INVENTED Hollywood, when could the WASPs have controlled it? If you're talking about pre-Hollywood movie-making, there wasn't much of that before those Russian Jews invented their California la-la-land of Hollywood.

Fred said...

Victoria meet irony; irony: Victoria.

Anonymous said...

Fanboys just hate Shia because he's a funny looking weirdo who got to kiss Megan Fox onscreen in two movies (don't worry-- in real life she's with a tall, tatttoed bad boy out of Whiskey's worst nightmare). In reality, he actually does have a following among kids and young adults-- his star power made the otherwise forgettable Rear Window knockoff Disturbia into a decent-sized hit. Yes, former wimpy kid Spielberg probably sees a bit of his younger self in the kid, but when is that new among directors? Apparently Scorcese's avatar is the tall, blonde DiCaprio (also used by Spielberg in the excellent Catch Me If You Can.)

Anonymous said...

Both Udolpho for the prosecution and Fred for the defense seem unaware that LeBoeuf actually began his career as a child actor in a Disney Channel show. I don't know whether Jews were involved in the casting thereof.

I personally associate LeBeouf much more with the Transformers series than with his role in Spielberg's Indiana Jones IV. (According to Wikipedia Michael Bay is Jewish; I never knew that before, but make of it what you will.)

ben tillman said...

Patrick Goldstein has responded with another blog entry that contains the following:

If you or I wrote that and signed it "Goldstein", we'd be painted as anti-Semites for portraying Jews as pathological liars. But if a real "Goldstein" writes it, we're anti-Semites for questioning its ludicrous assertions.

Anonymous said...

There isn't enough diversity at the top. Jews dominate the marketplace of ideas and information.

Truth said...

"(don't worry-- in real life she's with a tall, tatttoed bad boy out of Whiskey's worst nightmare)."

Actually, she's with some 40-year-old Vegan dork from Beverly Hills 90210.