July 3, 2010

A World Cup prediction

Ah, the irony. In the U.S., followers of overseas soccer tend to believe themselves to be diversiphiles, unlike those boorish fans of American football, who are, no doubt, racist under the skin for not liking soccer.

Here are the upcoming World Cup soccer semifinals:

Uruguayvs.Netherlands-Jul 6 11:30am (PT) on ESPN
Germanyvs.Spain-Jul 7 11:30am (PT) on ESPN

Let me make a prediction: somehow, some way, some American soccerati pundits are going to cite this as Another Triumph of Diversity for soccer in contrast to xenophobic, nativist, redneck, racist American sports like football, where NFL rosters average only 31% white (but every single one of the NFL's soccer-style placekickers is a non-Hispanic white guy, which tells you a lot about how soccer in the U.S. is largely White Flight in Short Pants). I don't know how they will do it, but they'll do it.

(And if the Final turns out to be Netherlands v. Germany, then they'll just redouble their efforts! Or, if it's Uruguay v. Spain, the whitest teams of the final four, then that will serve to, uh ... prove immigration skeptics wrong!)

Seriously, in today's mental climate, it's very hard for American soccer fans to express the thought, even in the privacy of their own minds, that soccer is, by the standards of big American teams sports, a white-dominated game.

At the highest levels of global soccer, about 75 percent or slightly more of the top players are white. Soccer in 2010 is like basketball in 1959. But, most Americans commentators are too mentally disabled these days to notice what's in front of their noses.

Let’s look at ESPN’s list from earlier this year of the “Top 50 players of the World Cup.” The five best players in the world -- Lionel Messi of Argentina (who is of Italian descent), Christiano Ronaldo of Portugal (a Tim Tebow-lookalike), Wayne Rooney of England, Kaka of Brazil (who is from an upper middle-class family), and Xavi of Spain --are white.

Out of the top 10, eight are white and two from West Africa. Out of the top 50, the proportions look similar. Judging from their pictures, I would say 10 are black, one is mostly white but clearly part black, and the other 39 look more or less white. None of the top 50 are East Asian or South Asian, and I don’t see any that are as part-Amerindian-looking as, say, Diego Maradona, the star of the 1986 World Cup.

In contrast, only one American-born white guy has been selected to the NBA All Star game in the last half dozen years. Most of the prestige positions in the NFL other than quarterback are dominated by blacks. 

Of the soccer top 50, 24 are white guys from the six sunny powers of Spain (9 of the top 50), Italy, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay. In other words, almost half of the global soccer superstars are Southern Europeans. As baseball discovered back in the days of Joe DiMaggio, it doesn’t really hurt your sport’s popularity to have stylish Mediterranean guys as stars.

The World Cup is a paradox: the results of individual games seem pretty random but the results always come out about the same: traditional soccer powers get to the finals.

When people go on about how much they love diversity, what they mean is that they want about an 80% white majority and 20% colorful minorities to spice things up, roughly what high level soccer delivers -- not the opposite. (But the opposite is what everybody will eventually get.)

Much of the glamor of the World Cup stems from it being a mostly white sport. Do you think up-and-comers like the South Koreans would be fascinated by the World Cup if it were traditionally dominated by, say, Indonesia, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Pakistan, and Bolivia? Would SWPLs in the U.S. love soccer if it were associated in their minds with "Kinshasa" rather than with "Barcelona"?

Look at what's happened to interest in track & field over the decades as East Africans have come to dominate the endurance races and the West African diaspora the sprints. (People don't believe me these days when I say that the Olympic running races used to be a really big deal. Who'd ever be interested in people running?)

The rules of soccer could either be more favorable to men of West African descent who are great at sprinting but lack endurance, the way the NFL and the NBA are, by making the game more amenable to sprinters by having more times outs (great for TV commercials) and substitutions. Or soccer could be made more amenable to highlanders with less speed but great endurance such as East Africans, Mexicans, Bolivians, Rif Mountain Northwest Africans and the like by preventing players from wasting time whenever play stops. But the rules are set in such a way that whites predominate in soccer.

236 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Williams Sisters? I thought they were renamed as "Steroids Brothers" already.

Blacks don't need steroids. Their body produces afroids.

kaka said...

Typo: Jumping: W.African

Everyone has their own subjective hierarchy for which sports should be considered the most athletic or most interesting to watch.
A lot of this has to due with cultural conditioning and personal experience. Sports that I aggressively played still give an adrenaline rush when I watch a good match years later.

If there is an objective standard, it should be those sports that emphasize our most primitive survival instincts: fighting. By this standard, UFC, wrestling and even the pretty artificial sport of boxing represent the peak of athleticism. All other sports consist of varying degrees of artifice and special effects entertainment.

Next on the objective hierarchy would be sports that demand a wide range of generalized skills like the soccer, triathelons and the decathalon that enhance human fitness for survival.

Next would be narrow athletic skills like running (long and short distances), throwing and swimming which could help in certain survival situations.

Next would be specific advanced skill that could be generalized into valuable survival skills like rugby union, O/D-line NFL, racquet/sword, and rollerball.

Last on the hierarchy would be freakish hyper-specialized sports with complex rules/equipment as well as entirely artificial playing field requirements such as our modern megasports in America. Basketball players, baseball players and wide receivers would be especially useless in a primative society unless they were good at some of the other sports mentioned.

In other words sprinting, jumping and catching (the domain of W.African athletic dominance) would be pretty useless in and of them selves in a outside our modern world that isolates us from demands of nature and competition from our fellow man. This is probably just one of the reasons soldiers from W.Africa, Indonesia and India didn't conquer and colonize as much as European, Middle Eastern and NE Asian societies did.

As a disclaimer, the media folks for American major sports do a great job within the US of packaging and marketing their product. The NFL has fallen flat abroad but basketball has had success abroad. Of the two, I don't really get the excitement of largely meaningless high-scoring ball in hoop games so much as the war analogy of the NFL (or it's forebearer Rugby).

As an increasing number of modern American men are jock-sniffing coddled wussies who never experienced a real fight or know the salty taste of blood, perhaps it's easier to sell these mega-sports that are so far removed from our base sense of reality, survival and true athleticism.

Anonymous said...

"What seems unique about soccer is that it is the only popular athletic team sport that can be played competitively by so many different ethnic phenotypes because the rules don't favor just one aspect like sprinting, endurance, physicality or skilled ball control. Even on the individual level, it even selects against extreme genetic freaks favored by other sports like American football or basketball becoming more than just a spectator sport."

The popularity of football naturally stems from the fact that the demands in this game are extremely variable. Almost everybody can compete - both 165 cm tall Maradona or 202 cm tall Koller.

Other team sports like basketball, volleyball, rugby, handball or water polo place premium on extremely tall physiques, because the ball is either handled in the air or you are exposed to close body contacts.

I really don't understand, how a whole nation can be so delusional and believe that the excellence in basketball or American rugby (pardon, football) is some proof of "athleticism". The same can be said about other sports I mentioned above. These are sports for huge clumsy guys - or, better said, "for the most athletic among clumsy monsters".

Outside USA, the popularity of these sports is roughly proportional to the proportion of these monsters in the population, i.e. moderate at best. Only certain countries, like e.g. small Lithuania, can be called "basketball-crazy" nations, because the relatively low international competition in basketball can bring them some global success that they couldn't enjoy in such a highly competetive game like football.

If there is any "tall" sport with high demands on overall athletic abilities, then I would name volleyball, because the lean, agile physiques in this game stand closest to the widest range of athletic events.

Anonymous said...

"Stats don't lie" - or how did "the greatest athletes in the world" in the World Cup. Stats of activity during the game: totals+ averages per player in bars.

Judge by yourself.

Argentina-Nigeria 1:0
Low activity time spent (%) 87% -87%
Medium activity time spent (%) 6% - 6%
High activity time spent (%) 7% - 7%
Distance covered (metres) 95,427 (8,675) – 93 549 (8533)
Top speed (km/h) 30.93 (22.66) – 31.10 (22.29)
Sprints 851 (97) – 737 (86)

Greece-Nigeria 2:1 (Nigeria red card 16 min.)
Low activity time spent (%) 86 - 87
Medium activity time spent (%) 7-7
High activity time spent (%) 7-6
Distance covered (metres) 96 792 (8779) – 85 795 (8259)
Top speed (km/h) 31.57 (24.70) – 26.03 (21.96)
Sprints 782 (100) – 573 (65)

Nigeria-Korea 2:2
Low activity time spent (%) 85 - 83
Medium activity time spent (%) 7 - 8
High activity time spent (%) 8 - 9
Distance covered (metres) 99 304 (9028) – 107 515 (9766)
Top speed (km/h) 28.51 (21.15) – 30.02 (22.27)
Sprints 843 (99) – 1041 (117)

Cote d’Ivoire-Portugal 0:0
Low activity time spent (%) 84 - 81
Medium activity time spent (%) 8 - 9
High activity time spent (%) 8 - 10
Distance covered (metres) 105 125 (9565) – 109 763 (9979)
Top speed (km/h) 26.02 (20.65) – 23.63 (20.93)
Sprints 1036 (118) – 970 (112)

Brazil – Cote d’Ivoire 3:1
Low activity time spent (%) 86 - 87
Medium activity time spent (%) 7 - 6
High activity time spent (%) 7 - 7
Distance covered (metres) 97 670 (8930) – 95 748 (8706)
Top speed (km/h) 30.75 (24.94) – 28.51 (23.25)
Sprints 765 (96) – 834 (97)

KLDR-Cote d’Ivoire 0:3
Low activity time spent (%) 83 - 83
Medium activity time spent (%) 8 - 8
High activity time spent (%) 9 - 9
Distance covered (metres) 104 897 (9528) – 105 466 (9580)
Top speed (km/h) 25.87 (21.73) – 24.59 (22.20)
Sprints 963 (139) – 941 (109)

Japan-Cameroon 1:0
Low activity time spent (%) 83 - 85
Medium activity time spent (%) 8 -7
High activity time spent (%) 9 - 8
Distance covered (metres) 109 940 (10 584) – 102 958 (9841)
Top speed (km/h) 30.13 (25.15) – 30.13 (23.33)
Sprints 971 (116) – 782 (92)

Cameroon-Denmark 1:2
Low activity time spent (%) 85 - 83
Medium activity time spent (%) 7 - 8
High activity time spent (%) 8 - 9
Distance covered (metres) 99 675 (8821) - 106 780 (9457)
Top speed (km/h) 26.72 (22.31) - 27.11 (21.88)
Sprints 1005 (117) - 1054 (123)

Cameroon-Netherlands 1:2
Low activity time spent (%) 84 - 84
Medium activity time spent (%) 8 - 8
High activity time spent (%) 8 - 8
Distance covered (metres) 102 386 (9302) – 104 397 (9489)
Top speed (km/h) 22.85 (19.98) – 25.94 (21.00)
Sprints 977 (113) – 956 (110)

Serbia-Ghana 0:1 (Serbia red card 74 min.)
Low activity time spent (%) 86 - 86
Medium activity time spent (%) 7 - 7
High activity time spent (%) 7 - 7
Distance covered (metres) 94 150 (8740) – 97 692 (8881)
Top speed (km/h) 23.14 (21.02) – 29.03 (21.52)
Sprints 764 (88) – 937 (105)

Ghana-Australia 1:1 (Australia red card 24. min.)
Low activity time spent (%) 85 - 82
Medium activity time spent (%) 7 - 8
High activity time spent (%) 8 - 10
Distance covered (metres) 101 776 (9251) – 102 695 (10 001)
Top speed (km/h) 24.71 (21.64) – 29.36 (22.36)
Sprints 966 (111) – 1090 (121)

Ghana-Germany 0:1
Low activity time spent (%) 83 - 82
Medium activity time spent (%) 8 - 9
High activity time spent (%) 9 -9
Distance covered (metres) 106 051 (9640) – 108 940 (9903)
Top speed (km/h) 30.13 (22.24) – 28.39 (22.33)
Sprints 1037 (118) – 1098 (125)

Anonymous said...

Just a point about terminology: I think when people say "Nordic", they really mean Germanic (or should). The Nordic countries include Scandinavia plus Finland, Iceland, Greenland, and a few small islands. That's only about 25 million people in total. There's certainly more Germans with stereotypically Nordic features than in all the Nordic countries combined. Germanic means those descended from the Germanic tribes: the Nordics, Germans, Dutch, English, and Flemish. Unlike the fiction of Nordic particularism, the Germanic non-Germanic divide is a relevant one in Europe today (see Belgium).

P.S. Yes this doesn't account for the Scottish and Irish, but they've been thoroughly Anglicized by the English over the centuries that any differences are insignificant.

Randy Paul said...

I didn't think to notice the racial makeup of the Uruguayan squad, but some Mayan features were detectable in the faces of the Paraguayans.

Try Guarani. For the Chilenos try Mapuche.

Anonymous said...

Someone who knows I follow soccer sent me a link to this post, and I've been reading the comments thread in awe. It's dumbfounding that this many people would expend all of this energy having what they think is a serious intellectual debate focused on a sport that they clearly know nothing about.

Seriously, I have read all 206 comments and have not seen a single one from an author who understands what makes a great soccer player or how a successful national soccer team is built. As far as I can tell, this is little more than a right-wing circle jerk whose participants are unfazed by their own cluelessness.

Wanna know why Germany's doing so well? Ain't got nothing to do with race. From an article in the Guardian:

"[A]fter his country's early exit from Euro 2000 'the German FA has invested an annual €20m [£16.5m] earmarked for talent promotion in the widest sense of the word. At grassroots level, a nationwide network of 366 training centres has been set up, mostly using the infrastructure of local clubs with above-average facilities, where 14,000 youngsters aged 11-14 receive extra tuition by way of a weekly two-hour training session imparted by a DFB-appointed coach. This is in addition to the training they do with their respective clubs. It is more than likely that some of them will feature in the German national team eight years from now.'"

Do you think many African nations have that kind of money to throw around? You set up a system like Germany's in Ghana, and you'd see a huge dividend on the field.

A successful World Cup team is the result of financial investment, a high level of cultural interest, and myriad other factors that include strategy, team chemistry, timing of peak performance, etc. Trying to tease out some lessons about race is a fool's errand.

Shut up and watch the games...or not. Those of us who love the game couldn't care less.

Anonymous said...

adfasfasdfa, Mr pitiful sport scientist, you have no idea about sports physiology. lol

The truth is that the body build of West African blacks is generally moderate and - from the sports view - balanced, but this is nothing extraordinary. The same body build can be found in Central/Northern Europeans or East Asians (who are smaller than US blacks, but not Caribbean or West African blacks!).

The range of body types that can be found in Europe is much larger than among West Africans and much larger than a layman could think. There are slender West Europeans, robust East Europeans, tall and quite robust Dinarics, small Iberians. That's the reason, why whites (Europeans) are by far the most successful human group on Earth, when it concerns sports.

The delusional people in USA were brainwashed to believe that when blacks beat whites in certain sports events, for which their body type is highly specialized (West Africans in sprints, East Africans in long distances), they must beat them in every other sport anyhow - or at least in those that appear superficially similar. The truth is that it is just their extreme specialization that LIMITS their sports potential in other activities. That's the reason, why they pick up by far the least number of Olympic medals out of all races.

Would you want to see some black track cyclists? Well, they have better genes for speed, but track cycling is a strength-speed discipline, the guys must have short thighs for quick acceleration (which Africans don't have), and the long, thin calves that save energy during sprinting play no role.

"Strongman competition. I dunno." Yes, You "dunno". The average height in Nigeria is ca. 170 cm. How many of those huge and powerful Nigerians would you find? The truth is that blacks have never played any fundamental role in heavier classes of weightlifting or powerlifting. And why should they, after all? Their physique is only moderate (don't be fooled by the "nice" appearance, as I noted above) and the long levers of their limbs make their muscles very inefficient. The rumours about huge blacks that can't lift anything are based on real-life experience. Naturally, all those heavily juiced guys from NFL or IFBB, as well as the great tennis Williams Bros are excluded.

"If blacks entered swimming in a big way, they would win the short sprints."

Maybe. Since the role of buoyancy in short sprints is lower than in longer distances, the racial differences in this regard may not be large. But it would mean equal chances at best. Further factors would be a matter of debate, because even at the African swimming championships, the medal winners are mostly Tunisians and members of white African minorities.

Anonymous said...

adfasfasdfa, your adventure into the world of sports physiology is admirable, but as for me, I would rate your nice try with "F".

Anonymous said...

"Do you think many African nations have that kind of money to throw around? You set up a system like Germany's in Ghana, and you'd see a huge dividend on the field."

They don't have to have so much money. The money go from European (well, I mean mainly French) managers, who import young Africans to Europe. And whole families in Africa also collect money to get their darlings to Europe.

I wanted to say: Even the best system means nothing, when you don't have kids interested in the sport. Why do you think that the performance of the German team declined and you see more and more immigrants in their team? Because German kids play football on Play Station.

asdfasdfasdf said...

adfasfasdfa, your adventure into the world of sports physiology is admirable, but as for me, I would rate your nice try with "F".

I know it's Fantastic.

asdfasfasdf said...

"Strongman competition. I dunno." Yes, You "dunno". The average height in Nigeria is ca. 170 cm. How many of those huge and powerful Nigerians would you find?

Most Nigerians are poor and don't eat so good. Even so, for a poor people, they look mean and scary. Compare a famished Nigerian with a famished Vietnamese or Pole. The Nigerian is meaner and stronger.

In the US, blacks eat pretty good and tend to be taller than whites. And they outperform whites in most of the highest paying and prestigious sports.

Lee Haney was one tough looking mofo. And Apollo Creed and Mr T. would have whupped Stallone in a real fight.

And decathalon winners have been blacks or black-gened folks. The British guy in the 1980s was half-African. The American winner in the 90s had some black genes. And the recent winner was something like half-Japanese, half black, and half something else.

Truth said...

"If it's dumb to draw a line between Nordics and non-Nordic whites, why isn't it dumb to draw one between whites and non-whites?"

That's a good question. I have a proposal, why don't we just pass a rule that decrees every blonde-haired / blue-eyed, Nordic lass to a swarthy, horny Greek-Sicilian type? They're all white, right? That way you good folks could kill that pesky recessive trait thing once and for all within a couple of generations and you could get back to what's important...HATING THE MUDS!

(The fact that you will look just like half of them is insignificant.)

Truth said...

"P.S. Yes this doesn't account for the Scottish and Irish, but they've been thoroughly Anglicized by the English over the centuries that any differences are insignificant."

You might want to try telling that to the liver specialists in Belfast.

"And the recent winner was something like half-Japanese, half black, and half something else."

No wonder he was such a baddasss.

kaka said...

asdfasdfasdfad said...

You appear to neither know about soccer nor have watched any of these games. Again, which game did you see where the clearly more athletic and better performing team lost?

The talent of a team is measured by their performance on the pitch and the score, not by reputation, height or your perceptive concept of geekiness.

RE: Japan vs Denmark

Height in and of itself has little to do with soccer skills except for goalies. Your comment that the Japanese players are small and "geeky" is too ignorant to even address.

Japan fielded a decent team this year. They defeated Cameroon 1-0 (#19 world) and held the Dutch (#4) to 0-1 so it wasn't surprising they beat the Danish (#36) 3-1 who had a slightly worse record.

RE: Italy, France and England

They all put in terrible performances compared to their reputations and potential. All deserved to tie or lose the games they did if you watched them.

The wealthy, spoiled and ever distracted Brits called in their performace per usual, didn't win a match and were crushed by Germany 4-1. The French publically self-destructed. The Italians showed nothing special that warranted anything other than the early exit they got.

RE: Brasil vs NED

Again, if you watched the game, Brasil(#1 world) in no way played a considerably better game than NED (#4 world). The 2-1 result was reflective of the talent each team put on display.

RE: Portugal vs Ivory Coast

Outside their drubbing of N.Korea, Portugal didn't score a single goal against their other 3 opponents during this WC (BRA, Spain, Ivory Coast). They pretty much sucked - just not nearly as much as N.Korea in their own epic failure against Portugal.

You are a moron for suggesting that no country can be that good at soccer unless they are also good at American football or basketball. They are entirely different sports that demand different skills and phenotypes. It's as stupid as claiming Americans could never create good films or music because they don't do good Kubuki theater.

kaka said...

asdfasdfasdfad said...

Gay or not, Asians are better at table tennis and badmitten because they reportedly have faster reaction times than your "proud Negro". There is a physiological basis and blacks wouldn't dominate if they tried.

Just as many boxers of yore were black, many of the great basketball players were Jewish and the top sprinters were ye olde British. Today is a very different world that is far more competitive in finding, developing and promoting global talent - much of it based on genetics.

These days Hispanics dominate the lightweights just as Caucasians dominate the heavier weights. Like white sprinters and Jewish basketball players, black boxers of yore have been displaced by better talent. After all, boxing doesn't have overlap with any more lucrative sports that are siphoning off any of the present black boxing talent you wish existed.

Strongman, powerlifting, hammer throw, shotput, etc are all dominated by Euros. Even the position for the strongest guys in the very black NFL tends to an island of whiteness (O-line). You have no argument here with your mythical Nigerians.

The word "sprint" in an athletic competition doesn't necessarily mean that blacks will dominate. Swimming favors Euros from a wide variety of perspectives: boyancy, bone density, limb/torso ratios, etc. Vertical land sprints that favor W.African longer legs/shorter torsos, bigger thighs/butts, fast twich muscles may generalize to short track speed skating but much less so for swimming sprints.

Cycling, like swimming, is a highly technical sport that requires a obsessive internal loner mental state in the longer distances. It doesn't seem to appeal to blacks in enough numbers for any meaningful sample. All things being equal, physics and physiology favor the shorter legs and longer torsos (lung capacities) of Euros.

Wrestling has nothing to do with football - there is no ball and no running, jumping, throwing, catching. The closest it comes is the O-line which again is an island of whiteness in the largely black NFL. Although black participation is low, there is no reason to believe blacks would dominate wrestling anymore than a mean of powerlifting and UFC results today.

UFC is what it is today despite your what-if scenarios, exceptions to the rule. Tyson and esp. Foreman are old men and it would be elder abuse to pit them against Brock. You meant to say that the top heavyweight boxer in the world today (Vitali Klitschko) would prolly beat the top UFC fighter today (Brock Lesnar). But only if Vitali landed a solid/lucky punch as Brock was passing inside the power zone of Vitali's striking range.

kaka said...



And decathalon winners have been blacks or black-gened folks. The British guy in the 1980s was half-African. The American winner in the 90s had some black genes. And the recent winner was something like half-Japanese, half black, and half something else.


This is as bad as your black actors playing boxers would beat a white actor playing a boxer claim to racial superiority.

Via Wikipedia on best scores by year for the last two decades (1990-2009):

11 titles won by Euros

6 titles won by Dan O'Brian who is primarily white. He is described as half-AfAm but his picture shows he is about 80% white with thin straight brown hair, pencil thin lips, prominent nose and yellowish skin standing next to Jessie Tompkins, a typical AfAm (80%Af/20%Euro).

3 titles won by Bryan Clay who is 50% Japanese and possibly 40% 10% Euro going by US averages of white ad-mixture in AfAms. His kids by his white wife look 100% non-Mediterrian European so he likely has more Euro and less Afro genes than the averages would predict.

0 titles won by pure Africans or even typical African Americans (80%Af/20%Euro genes).

Keep in mind that American blacks might have a proportionally higher exposure to high-level track and field training than whites these days so the talent pool the decathalon draws from is very much non-white.

Maybe the optimal athlete for this sport is a a lucky hybrid between largely Euro and some W.African genes. Still, the evidence shows that the composite nature of all 10 events strongly favors Euro phenotypes in stark contrast to straight sprinting (W.Africans) or long distance running (E.Africans).

Maasai said...

headache said...

Fred sed:What I found to be funny Friday was that they had these pronouncements and banners about saying no to racism before the game, and then when it came down to a penalty kick shootout at the end, the South African crowd loudly booed the white Uruguayans when it was their turn to kick and cheered the blacks from Ghana when it was their turn.

Yeah, that was a howler. Soccer is just so nationalistic and as Steve shows, nationalism is mostly race-driven. So soccer is basically a race-driven event. Yet Blatter and the other FIFA scoundrels/money-makers/SWPL's make these teams read out these annoying untruths against "racism". What hypocrisy!


Well, I was at that game and heard the booing. F'r'instance the people behind me were doing it - but they were white. It was nationalism, certainly, but not race-based. Just about every South African of any ethnicity supported the South African team, and then we supported the other African teams once SA was knocked out. We held SA flags in the first round, Ghana flags in the later ones. Regardless of our individual ethnicities. So the "Sailer analysis" is just wrong here.

Gotta love prejudice. When the facts fail you, just go ahead and make up your own.

Anonymous said...

"In the US, blacks eat pretty good and tend to be taller than whites. And they outperform whites in most of the highest paying and prestigious sports."

At least you can write without spelling errors. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to reply to your insightful comments.

Anonymous said...

"Cycling, like swimming, is a highly technical sport that requires a obsessive internal loner mental state in the longer distances. It doesn't seem to appeal to blacks in enough numbers for any meaningful sample."

And first of all, the physical demands in road cycling are the exact opposite of long distance running. Since your body is supported by the bike, it is the absolute mechanical power and absolute values of aerobic power that matter. East Africans with their small and skinny bodies could perhaps make some solid mountain specialists, but they would be crushed on flat terrain.

Anonymous said...

Good grief, does soccer really have to bear all this sociological BS here in the 21st century? By now, haven't exceptions to generalizations about racial superiority made the subject essentially useless? Isn't American resistance to soccer a tired cliche that's not even really true any more? It isn't really possible for someone to just like or dislike soccer, basketball or bloody curling without having to analyze it on a grid of political preconceptions? Guess what, y'all. This stuff is old. The world has passed you by.

Anonymous said...

Heavyweight boxing needs a new "Great Black Hope."

asdfasdfasf said...

The talent of a team is measured by their performance on the pitch and the score, not by reputation, height or your perceptive concept of geekiness.

RE: Japan vs Denmark

Height in and of itself has little to do with soccer skills except for goalies. Your comment that the Japanese players are small and "geeky" is too ignorant to even address.

Japan fielded a decent team this year. They defeated Cameroon 1-0 (#19 world) and held the Dutch (#4) to 0-1 so it wasn't surprising they beat the Danish (#36) 3-1 who had a slightly worse record.


But suppose a decently talented Japanese team met a decently talented Danish or Cameroonian team in American-style football or basketball? What would have been their chance of winning?

There is greater element of chance in soccer because even the dominant team has a heck of a hard time putting in the goal.

Heck, if we reduced the size of goal by 50%, men vs women would be competitive.

asdfasdfasdf said...

Gay or not, Asians are better at table tennis and badmitten because they reportedly have faster reaction times than your "proud Negro". There is a physiological basis and blacks wouldn't dominate if they tried.

Not while they are driving.
And what is boxing but about reaction time? In black-asian fights, black boxers do more punching and dodging while Asian boxers do less of both; they hit less and get hit more.

Just as many boxers of yore were black, many of the great basketball players were Jewish and the top sprinters were ye olde British.

That was the case when blacks weren't allowed equal access in those sports.
Most top speed skaters are white. It doesn't mean whites are better skaters but few blacks have access to the sport. There are very very few blacks in speed skating but one managed to win gold in two olympics, and he's most certainly not the best black athletes. If the best black athletes entered speed skating, the records would be changed overnight. Your castefootball desperation is pitiful.

black boxers of yore have been displaced by better talent.

Today's boxers are better than black boxers of yore? What is yore problem?

Swimming favors Euros from a wide variety of perspectives: boyancy, bone density, limb/torso ratios, etc.

This may be true in swimming, one sport where having some fat and lighter bones may be an advantage.
And I suppose fatsos would win in belly flop contests.

Wrestling has nothing to do with football - there is no ball and no running, jumping, throwing, catching.

Yes, there is no ball and touchdown in wrestling. But it calls for similar kind of talent and strength, at least for some positions. The ability to push, pull, grab, take down. Defensive linemen guys in football are built for wrestling.

Your tomfoolery--trying to convince yourself that blacks are NOT better at sports--is just too laughable. Actually, it's a riot, given you are not only trying to argue that whites are as good as whites but even better.

Gc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
asasdfsadf said...

6 titles won by Dan O'Brian who is primarily white. He is described as half-AfAm but his picture shows he is about 80% white with thin straight brown hair, pencil thin lips, prominent nose and yellowish skin standing next to Jessie Tompkins, a typical AfAm (80%Af/20%Euro).

3 titles won by Bryan Clay who is 50% Japanese and possibly 40% 10% Euro going by US averages of white ad-mixture in AfAms. His kids by his white wife look 100% non-Mediterrian European so he likely has more Euro and less Afro genes than the averages would predict.

0 titles won by pure Africans or even typical African Americans (80%Af/20%Euro genes).


For one thing, most blacks don't enter into decathalon. They aint into javelin, hammer throw, and that stuff. So, BEST black talent stay away from decathalon.

Most decathletes are white, but isn't it funny that those with some black genes tend to win over those who are purely white?
Could Clay have won if he were purely Japanese?

The dominant guy in the 50s was some black dude(who lit the torch in the 84 Olympics). In 1980 and 1984, some half-black British guy won. He may have won again in 1988 or he would have won if his pole vault didn't break.

It doesn't matter if Dan O'Brien is 80% white. His EDGE came from blackness. (Funny how white nationalists socially reject people who are 20% black as non-white but then count them as 'white' in sports. I suppose Joe Louis was white too since he was light skinned. And OJ Simpson was white too since his nose wasn't broad.)

Black success in decathlon and penthlon(or whatever it's called) is all the more amazing since few blacks participate in them. Take Jackie Kersie Joyner who went up against the best white atletes and beat them all like 2 or 3 times.
Black participation in something like decath and penth is like 1 to 20(vis-a-vis whites), but many of the top athletes have been black.

How is it that many blacks dominate sports--like tennis--where so few blacks play while only rarely does a white guy dominate in a sport where most are black? Larry Bird was one. The guy who won the 400 m sprint in Athnes was another, but he lost to blacks in Beijing.

UFC, for instance, is mostly white, but the top athletes are disproportionately black. Anderson Silva didn't just beat Rich Franklin. It was man-rape. It was like a man beating up a little boy.

Silver said...

Fred

For all the patina of science and objectivity, most HBDers just want to belong to the most exclusive definition of "white" that will have them. If they're Nordic, than limiting "white" to Nordic makes perfect sense; if they're not, then limiting the white club to Nordic's is "dumb" or evil.

Haha, Fred shoots and he scores. Swish.

I'd bet good money I grew up around a higher proportion of nordics (~98%) than, well, 98% of posters here. (I was watching a rerun of a major sporting final from the 80s a couple months back and the crowd was a sea of nordic blondness.) It took me the longest time to figure just how the hell some considered s. europeans "the same race" as nords. It makes sense now: as nords dilute and as the number of non-Europeans rises the differences are perceived as less significant. The thing about trying to get "accepted" into the most exclusive definition of whiteness is this: say you are, so what? Race is about feeling. I simply cannot believe most s. europeans, and particularly most s.e. europeans, could feel anything in the way of actual racial/ethnic closeness with nordics that would approach what they feel around their own type -- unless they're the most miserably insecure creatures on earth and do such a good job faking it that they eventually "make it."

Anonymous said...

So a European Spanish team (Spain has been in disrepute lately because of ‘racism’) beats the multiracial, multicultural 'German' team. I am sure the liberals will not be happy about that. The media was priming up for a German victory which would have been taken as a chance to beat home the multiracial multicultural societies are better non-sense just like when the 'French' team won the world cup in 92. Of how turks and moroccans and mulatoes are responsible for giving the Germans the World cup. Some one must point them out about how the ‘hideously German’ the World champion West German teams of 1954, 1974 and 1990 were.

The final will be between a homogenous Spanish team and a Dutch team which has become Whiter compared to what it was in the last 4-5 decades (a reverse trend).

Anonymous said...

"Your tomfoolery--trying to convince yourself that blacks are NOT better at sports--is just too laughable. Actually, it's a riot, given you are not only trying to argue that whites are as good as whites but even better."

No actually they really are better, check out which race wins the most medals in the Olympics. Whites are quite generalised unlike the more specialised Blacks and even East Asians but not as generalised as Arabs, Indians and Malays. They are so generalised that it hurts their chances of getting Olympic medals.

kaka said...

adsadsadsdsa....

For one thing, most blacks don't enter into decathalon. They aint into javelin, hammer throw, and that stuff. So, BEST black talent stay away from decathalon.


Nobody grows up being "into" things like the javelin, hammer throw or discus, black or white. They wind up in those events because they are just not good enough at the main track events everyone starts out on, the running events.

Where do the huge numbers of blacks that don't make the cut at all the various distances running events go? They generally don't have the skills and phenotypes for big money sports (don't confuse wide receivers who dabble in track with true track stars). For these guys, it's either track or anonymously scratching out an existence somewhere.

Club and national teams sift through these all these failed black speedsters looking for anyone with more generalized talents since the specialized W.African phenotypes gives them an an unparalleled advantage in 40% of the decathalon events:

Day 1
* 100 meters (W.African)
* Long Jump (W.African)
* Shot Put (Euro)
* High Jump (Euro)
* 400 meters (W.African)

Day 2

* 110 meter hurdles (W.African)
* Discus (Euro)
* Pole Vault (Euro)
* Javelin (Euro)
* 1500 meters (E&N.African/White and Black)

What is surprising is how Euro the decathlon is given how clearly disadvantaged they are in 40% of the events vis-a-vis W.Africans. In otherwords, the highly specialized pure W.African phenotype must be absolutely terrible at the other strength and highly technical events to never win the "the world's greatest athlete" competition (I don't understand the high jump enough to understand why Euros dominate it).

I'm sure that phrase sticks in your craw and you'll just fall back on that old chestnut that anything your master race isn't the best at is because they are not interested or that the potential best black athletes decided to become theoretical physicists or brain surgeons.

What a frail, frail ego you must have to insist against all the evidence presented that the W.African phenotype is the best one over all others in every category and every sport.

You've been fooled by American big-money sports which hugely favors specialized W.African advantages in sprinting and jumping into making unwarranted generalizations.

kaka said...

asdfasfasdf said...

It doesn't matter if Dan O'Brien is 80% white. His EDGE came from blackness.


By your logic, it doesn't matter if AfAm athletes who average about 14-20% Euro genes are black. They all get their EDGE from whiteness.

You are such a self-delusional race supremists.

adsfsdfasdfasdf said...

asdfasfasdf said...

"It doesn't matter if Dan O'Brien is 80% white. His EDGE came from blackness."

By your logic, it doesn't matter if AfAm athletes who average about 14-20% Euro genes are black. They all get their EDGE from whiteness.

You are such a self-delusional race supremists.


No, fool. It's widely understood that blacks are stronger, faster, and more athletic. So, if a mixed-race person does well in sports, it prolly owes more to the genes of the athletically gifted race.

If a mixed black-asian guy does well in football, do you think it's the black or asian genes which did the trick? Lots of pure blacks in NFL but how many pure Asians?

It's possible that in some cases, a mix of blackness and whiteness can lead to something even better. Maybe Ali was so great because he wasn't all black but had some white-ish genes, which filled in certain genetic gaps.
Even so, given the fact that dark blacks have been better at boxing than pale whites, I'd say black genes had more to do with his success.

There have been many great mixed race athletes, but most of them tended to have black genes.
Compare people of white/asian mix, white/mexican mix, white/arab mix, and white/indian mix WITH people of white/black mix. Why is it that people of white/black mix tend to be better at sports than people of other racial blends? It must be the BLACK thing that must be crucial to the mix, doncha think?

Besides, plenty of pure blacks are superb at sports... such as Michael Jordan, Rafer Johnson, Joe Frazier, Pele, Miljain Lopez, etc.
Blacks haven't had access to all forms of sport, but in ones in which they participate in big numbers, they generally dominate.

Given that blacks are only 15% of the US population, isn't that all the more amazing?

It isn't supremacism, it is factualism. It is a fact that blacks are athletically superior to whites in most events.
Sure, there are events where non-blacks dominate.
Men's field hockey is dominated by Hindus. Women's team handball is dominated by South Korea. But those are games which the best athletes around the world show NO interest. Only a fool would say hindus are naturally better at field hockey or South Korean women have a special genetic talent for handball.

All things being equal, with people of all races having the same access to the sport, blacks are, in most cases, better than other races. Enough already. Live with it. Stop licking your wounded pride. Be a man.

Anonymous said...

Kaka, I have been reading the comments on this topic. I think blacks are very sensitive towards any challenge to their 'blacks are physically superior' myth because they pretty much suck at everything else (entertainment being an exception). Being at the bottom of the human totem pole in things that really matter like (IQ for example) and being the ultimate loser in human history, they have few other avenues of genuine pride. You need to be more sensitive.

kaka said...

adsadsasdmbas

No, fool. It's widely understood that blacks are stronger, faster, and more athletic. So, if a mixed-race person does well in sports, it prolly owes more to the genes of the athletically gifted race.


Maybe this "fact" is widely misunderstood among insecure, ill-informed and desperately-need-to-believe in myths of racial supremacy fanatics like yourself. Again, just a few facts for you:

* No African or even typical 80% African-American has won the "world's greatest athlete" in living memory if ever despite the vast over representation of blacks in track and field feeder events and their clear advantage in 40% of the events.

Euro do the best with several exceptional performances by Euros or NE Asians with a small W.African admixture. Other comprehensive athletic events like Triathelons or Ironman competitions also strongly favor the more generalized Euro phenotype (swimming, cycling and running).

* Several of the most European 4 soccer teams are contending to be the World Cup champion. A game which anyone can play with just a ball and is the most popular game for over a billion blacks in Africa and the many more millions outside Africa. All but one African team eliminated in the first round and most probably wouldn't have even been in the tournament if not for slots reserved by region.

* Euros dominate all strength sports like powerlifting, strongman, shotput, hammer, discus, etc. Since you particularly like to disparage "geeky" Japanese, note that there have been 10 Japanese and Chinese world champions powerlifters in the past 20yrs but not a single African or Carribean (perhaps the highest W.African genetic concentration outside Africa).

* Euros dominate nearly all fighting sports like boxing, wrestling, and UFC (less). Your lame excuse that imaginary great black boxers with no major crossover sport opportunity would rather drive taxis or sling hash than deign to whip Euros is a joke. Again, since you hold Asians up as the lamest of athletes, note that there are 4 current Japanese world boxing champions and 0 from the entire continent of Africa and 0 from high W.African genetic Carribean nations. Although again, a W.African/Euro (esp Hispanic) mix seems to be a good mix in the lighter divisions.

* Euro/N.African whites and E.African blacks dominate all endurance sports. Your superman W.African athletes are invisible in these types of long distance events.

W.Africans are unparalleled athletes when it comes to their niche in sprinting, jumping and short burst activities. To say, as you do, this means they also have the best endurance, are the strongest, best all around, etc when they demonstratively are not is willful ignorance.

American mega-sports, their rules and their selective enforcement of them have evolved to favor W.African phenotypes over all others.

For example, your beloved NFL has very short burst of activity between many long rests micromanaged by an army of smart guys controlling every aspect of the players. There are unlimited subsitutions, long commercial breaks, extremely granular roles and even then players rest on the sidelines half of the actual clock time.

These elaborate well-staged plays with so many specialized roles result in very marketable highlight reels for the culturally initiated. However, this extreme complexity is a measure of its artificiality and limits it's innate appeal for non-Americans.



hardly the measure of true overall athleticism.



Some lucky combination of W.African and Euro genes results in some supreme athletes in sports that are not like Ali and Jordan (who looks like your average AfAm carrying 14-20% Euro genes).

Anonymous said...

"I don't understand the high jump enough to understand why Euros dominate it."

Blacks are not as tall as whites. High jumpers are one of the tallest athletes. The higher the demands for height, the more the jumping ability of blacks becomes a compensatory factor, rather than a straightforward advantage.

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