January 10, 2011

A certain lack of self-awareness

It was only natural during the early hours of Saturday for liberals to hope that the Arizona shooter would turn out to be their Marinus van der Lubbe. Yet, within a few hours, it was obvious that the killer was a long-term loon who didn't fit into the usual political categories. (VDARE has the facts. Link fixed.)

Those facts dissuaded quite a number of commentators, who have since moved on to gun control as their salient for squeezing some advantage out of the massacre. (Of course, in a country with 200,000,000 or so existing guns, gun control is hardly much of a deterrent to this kind of -- fortunately, quite rare -- homicidal maniac. Gun control can play a role in dissuading criminals who don't want to get caught, but not much of one in slowing down the few who have thought things through and don't care about consequences.) 

But, the editorial board of the New York Times, which led a campaign of opprobrium against the voters of Arizona for most of 2010 over SB1070, is trying to rewrite history through sheer control of the bullhorn. From the Monday edition, long after the facts were out:
Shooting in Arizona
Editorial: Bloodshed and Invective

Arizona should take the lead in quieting the voices of intolerance and imposing sensible gun control laws.

In  other words, No Tolerance for anybody we can't tolerate.
... It is facile and mistaken to attribute this particular madman’s act directly to Republicans or Tea Party members. 

But ... we don't care, so we're going to do it anyway:
But it is legitimate to hold Republicans and particularly their most virulent supporters in the media responsible for the gale of anger that has produced the vast majority of these threats, setting the nation on edge. Many on the right have exploited the arguments of division, reaping political power by demonizing immigrants, or welfare recipients, or bureaucrats.

Meanwhile, Paul Krugman is, not surprisingly, enraged about what he sees as a climate of hate.
Climate of Hate
By PAUL KRUGMAN

When you heard the terrible news from Arizona, were you completely surprised? Or were you, at some level, expecting something like this atrocity to happen?

Who cares about facts? What is important is how Paul feels about things. Because Paul is such an even-tempered individual who always has a kind word for everybody, Paul is just furious -- furious -- about hate. Paul hates hate. Paul smash hate!

(By the way, it's instructive to compare press coverage of this massacre to that of the Omar Thornton massacre last August.)

113 comments:

John Craig said...

Turns out that one of Jared Loughner's favorite books was The Communist Manifesto by old Karl himself.

And anytime you hear someone complain that his thoughts are being controlled by another entity, you can be pretty sure that the speaker is schizophrenic.

TH said...

The VDARE link doesn't work.

Peter A said...

Partisans spinning current events for partisan gain! Shocking!

Anonymous said...

Mein Kampf was also on Loughner's list of favorites..

just say'n.

Anonymous said...

Omar Thornton? Who’s that, never heard of him. Oh, yea, the black guy who killed whites cause they were racists. Well, that is OK then, or at least we have to understand his righteous anger.

There is a major distinction between the motives that the media are attributing to the shooters and that makes all the difference. In the Arizona case, the shooter is a pot head lefty but WHITE so the “media” can get away with painting him as a hate filled white gentile that they can hate away at.

Huge difference between the coverage of the Arizona shooter and the mass murder by the Palestinian affirmative action Army officer at Fort Hood Texas. Even the Neocon Network is more worked up about a half Jewish woman congress person getting shot then over a dozen low level Army grunts being killed. Recall that the head of the Army said that if we had to end “diversity” to avoid Fort Hood shootings he would rather live with the shootings. Not so with the mythical view of the Arizona shooter. If the powers that be don’t like the motives they falsely attribute to him, that is something that we can’t tolerate because it represents intolerance.

Carol said...

The Communist Manifesto isn't a bad read..polemics from that era are quite entertaining. It's Marx's predictions that were a tad off.

Shouting Thomas said...

Talk about total lack of self-awareness.

During the Bush administration, my little (but important) hometown of Woodstock, NY held a sort of semi-official Hate Bush weekend organized around a showing of Loose Change.

Loose Change was the YouTube sensation that built a case that Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks. In other words, the peaceful little town of Woodstock positively reveled for a weekend in accusing a sitting president of murdering 3,000 Americans!

No hate there! Certainly no wild, inappropriate rhetoric.

The town newspaper, the Woodstock Times, ran a multiple page spread and announced that the orgy of hatred was just "good fun."

When you're a leftist, it's "righteous anger." When you're not, it's "hate."

Sylvia said...

While I agree that assigning political motives to a schizo serves no purpose, it's been much more prevalent on the Right in recent days. The gun-smoke had barely cleared when blogs like Atlas Shrugs began describing him as a leftist.

With his desire to return to the gold standard and abolish the federal government, he seems more libertarian than leftist, at least as far as these things can discerned in a damaged mind.

Harry Baldwin said...

Years ago I had a friend who was black and very conservative. I recall watching the local news with him when the teaser came on: "Next--the shocking story of a mugger who killed an 80-year-old woman, pushing her down a flight of stairs because she had only $3 in her purse."

My friend start praying, "Oh god, don't let him be black, don't let him be black . . ."

When the first reports came out about the Arizona massacre, I imagine the editorial staff of the NY Times praying, "Oh metaphorical god, don't let him be an illegal alien, don't let him be an illegal alien . . ."

And then, when he turned out to be an Anglo, an exultant sigh of relief followed by a rush to bang out the 837th editorial excoriating right-wing hate.

Anonymous said...

I am truly stunned by their hypocrisy.. if they knew it was hypocrisy, I would be worried, but knowing they don't even realize it's hypocrisy, I think I need a change of underwear.

Anonymous said...

Yes.
The predominant narrative from the MSM about the Omar Thornton massacre was that the victims 'were racists and therefore deserved to die'.Thornton was painted as a tortured, abused, put-upon meek lamb of a victim (the fact he stole a truckload of beer the day before was cheerfully ignored by the MSM.
Very little symapthy, but a great deal of contempt and loathing was heaped upon the heads of Thornton's victims.They, to coin Steve's phrase wre 'beefy, windbreaker wearing, blue-collar types'as such they can be slaughtered at will according to the MSM.No candle-lit vigils made for TV movies or much wailing and gnashing of teeth for them.

rightsaidfred said...

I would put this event in the category of "celebrity shooting", akin to the shooting of John Lennon or Rebecca Schaeffer. Congressmen are celebrities today because their role in doling out the lucre of the welfare state is evidently an ever more important and salient task.

Anonymous said...

I am also waiting for some analogy of how the gunman was a white male, shooting a jewish woman, a hispanic female and hispanic officer saved her etc...

Mel Torme said...

"Gun control can play a role in dissuading criminals who don't want to get caught, but not much of one in slowing down the few who have thought things through and don't care about consequences."

That doesn't make too much sense to me, Steve. Anyone can get a gun, same as a big knife or a baseball bat. Only the law-abiding are hurt by gun-control, as the criminals will not obey the new laws, being, criminals and all.

How 'bout: Concealed-carry can play a role is dissuading criminals who don't want to get shot, but only a partial one in slowing down the few who have thought things through and don't care about consequences.
FIFY, as they say.

Also, I thought I read that someone at the Safeway there took a shot back at this guy but missed (I know the guy was tackled to the ground at some point). Talking about gun control - hit what your aiming at - keep those groupings small.

Mel Torme said...

On another topic, I don't know why Krugman is so worried about this Climate of Hate. What, with this whole Climate Change (TM) thing going on, it'll change to something else real quick-like.

Keep on driving those SUV's people, and breathing and plugging in space heaters and shit - don't complain to me when the Climate of Hate has changed completely to Climate of Insensitivity, Climate of The Blues, Climate of Encryptical Envelopment, or even get totally reversed by Climate Disruption (TM) into Climate of LUV!

The way the Western World peoples are emitting these huge quantities of N2, non-stoichiometric O2, Argon, etc, straight out of their mouths, I will forecast this my friend (mark my words): In ten years time*, not only will snow be a rare and exciting event, but hate also will be rare (as most of the lefties will have died off from brain-swellage and abortion).

* Ten years from Wednesday morning, once the snow clears here in the Deep South (3 - 5 inches even in the low country of the Carolinas!) Wheee!

ironrailsironweights said...

Although I support responsible gun ownership, I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a 30-round magazine should be legal for civilian use.

Peter

Laban said...

a/c/t the UK Daily Mail, the killer has 'links' to American Renaissance. I don't think they mean blog links.

Amren say they don't know him and he's not on their mailing list.

Laban said...

vdare link is u/s

Truth said...

"(By the way, it's instructive to compare press coverage of this massacre to that of the Omar Thornton massacre last August.)"

Where's the comparison, Steven? I'm waiting with bated breath!

No what will be MUCH more interesting (trust me on this one folks) is the comparison between comments on the two stories here at isteve. Just two violent low-IQ, low impulse-control loons who hate white people, right?

Kylie said...

From Krugman's article in the NYT:
"It’s true that the shooter in Arizona appears to have been mentally troubled. But that doesn’t mean that his act can or should be treated as an isolated event, having nothing to do with the national climate."

Funny, I don't recall a similar assertion from just over a year ago, such as:

"It's true that the shooter in Fort Hood appears to have been mentally troubled. But that doesn't mean that his act can or should be treated as an isolated event, having nothing to do with his religion."

Or:
"It's true that the shooter in Manchester, Connecticut appears to have been mentally troubled. But that doesn't mean that his act can or should be treated as an isolated event, having nothing to do with the national statistics on black on white crime."

Or:
"It's true that the shooter in Kirkwood, Missouri appears to have been mentally troubled. But that doesn't mean that his act can or should be treated as an isolated even, having nothing to do with the national statistics on black on white crime."

Etc.

The bright spot in all this is that the public isn't passively accepting the MSM's attempt to spin this as the inevitable bloodbath resulting from right-wing hatred and bigotry. The MSM has had to backpedal and retract assertions to a degree I don't recall seeing in recent years.

As for gun control, one could argue that with millions of guns in the hands of millions of white US citizens, it's a testament to their self-restraint that such events are comparatively rare. (I'm not including non-whites in this because the leftist myth is that they have a valid reason for the massacres they commit.)

Anonymous said...

VDARE link is invalid, Steve.

SGOTI said...

The instant level of absolute vitriol on most lefty blogs and newspapers (but I repeat myself) was absolutely unbelievable.

It was akin to "Islam is a religion of peace- kill all unbelievers!"

I seriously wonder about living with either of the above parties anymore. . . .

adsfasdfasdf said...

I fault the Right for not doing with the Thorton case what the Left is doing with the Gifford case. The Right should have blamed rap music, NAACP, Democratic Party, etc for instilling rage in the hearts of all blacks.

asdfasdfasdfa said...

"And anytime you hear someone complain that his thoughts are being controlled by another entity, you can be pretty sure that the speaker is schizophrenic."

If he says 'controlled DIRECTLY', yes you're right. But only a madman would say that our minds are NOT being controlled INDIRECTLY by MSM, schooling, Hollywood, etc.

Anonymous said...

"When you heard the terrible news from Arizona, were you completely surprised? Or were you, at some level, expecting something like this atrocity to happen?"

I've been expecting Palin or an Arizona politician who supported SB1070 to be shot at sooner or later because of the incendiary partisan rhetoric of the MSM.

WWKD (What would Krugman Do) said...

Goddamnit! My washer just broke down again.

If those hateful immigration restrictionist, rule of law idiots and selfish jerks who think a country exists for the benefit citizens would just sit down, shut up, stop voting and enslave themselves to the ruling globalist oligarchy I'd be wearing clean clothes today.

This tangential reasoning is more coherent than the inverted MSM narrative of the left-leaning crazy Lougher murdering a centralist Democrat.

Camlost said...

Some other blogs are claiming that he listed himself as Jewish on his (now removed) MySpace page.

Anonymous said...

Why can't law enforcement do a better job of monitoring lone wackos like Jared Lee Loughner? They leave ample evidence of mental imbalance on the internet, and they tend to have multiple contacts with local law enforcement for bizarre behavior before fatally acting out. Perhaps police should use MMPI like questions to set up flags in the system which would be detected during background checks for a firearms purchase. Such flags might have prevented Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, from buying his piece.

Big Bill said...

It is an interesting point. Given their month-long navel gazing about Evil White Racism when Omar Butchered his coworkers, why isn't the MSM devoting this month to examining all of Obama's and Gifford's federal mind-control initiatives. Clearly we need a National Conversation on Mind Control.

But don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Judge Roles and Rep. Gifford deserved to die because they were mixed up in mind control, only that we clearly have Unresolved National Issues regarding mind control and sweeping them under the table is no way to solve them ... as this recent shooting makes painfully obvious.

Maybe we could send some National Reporters around Arizona asking Regular Everyday Americans what they think of mind control and whether they can relate to the shooter's lashing out like he did, and whether there is anything Giffords could have done were she sensitive to the concerns of Mind Control Victims like the shooter.

Zed is Dead said...

What's the story on this kid's background? In his high school he looked like Howard Stern or one of the Coen brothers. Jared is a name of Hebrew origin.

JeremiahJohnbalaya said...

described by classmates as "left-wing pothead", "quite liberal" and "political radical"

Anonymous said...

If anybody is to blame for this shooting it is the left-wing fascist Democrats (and RINOs), and they will use this shooting to advance their evil tyranny. For decades the Democrats have been preaching the gospel of the "empowered" victim (read "loser"). This is straight out of Lenin's book of tactics. Victimhood has been defined as sainthood by the leftists and anyone who feels left out or marginalized now has a reason to feel that they are morally superior. They have learned this in government schools and from popular culture. Many of these “victims” will also feel entitled to violently lash out. We see it all the time now and it’s always those who feel that the world owes them an apology, a living, recognition, etc. The shooters at Columbine definitely fit the leftists’ paragon of self-proclaimed, self-righteous “victims/beautiful losers” and I'll bet you this latest shooter does too. Even though he appears to be insane on some level, in a healthy society and culture he would not feel so entitled to act out his resentment.

Of course it’s usually lively, vibrant diverses who feel justified about acting out violently–especially against Whites, and the leftists will bend over backwards to excuse those outrages, but at this point anyone who feels they are a victim has been empowered by left-wing fascists to take revenge any way they see fit. This is just one more disgusting facet of the evil left-wing narrative espoused by the Democrats and they will use it to whip up the Godless mob that is their natural constituency. Because the shooter was White we will hear about this endlessly while all the diverse shooters are soon forgotten.

And of course the leftists can’t blame themselves. They have no morals or ethics and don’t really care who gets killed as long as they can blame somebody besides themselves. Just look at the deadly nature of ObamaCare and so much other leftist legislation. This shooting is also consistent with the leftists' plan to make it illegal to defend ourselves against violent attack. Leftists would much rather we be killed by self-proclaimed "victims" or common criminals (also the darlings of the left). Leftists are all liars, cheats and thieves and they are proving it by their response to this shooting.

Anonymous said...

Hate better watch out, then. Paul Krugman is a badass who lives in the last house on Badass Avenue, which just gets more badass the further you go down.

Maciano said...

Krugman is really losing it.

I mean, sure, disagree with Republicans and dislike them all you want, but this guy treats them like the second coming of.. (you know who). Some of his friends should try to talk some sense into him; real friends try to prevent you from mistakes like this. "Hey Paul, remember how Bobby Fischer turned out? The poor guy fell from chess genius to raving wacko." Someone should suggest to him to neglect the Republican issue for a while until he can treat it with the same dispassion he feels for dog training and pottery. His current pieces read like a George Costanza meltdown.

A man of his esteem, a Nobel winner, shouldn't behave this erratic. I wouldn't be surprised if the NYT will remove him from their pages in the near future if he keeps this up. It must be embarassing for them to defend him to their often thoughtful serious base.

Whiskey said...

The guy is a 9/11 Truther, had a Satanic altar in his home, was described as a Leftwing pothead by classmates, loved "Anti-Flag" the band, burned American Flags in the desert in his videos.

But, he's defined as a Tea Partier. Because the Media has the bullhorn and they will create another McVeigh.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

It reminded me of the old saying that so long as rape is inevitable you might as well lay back and enjoy it.

Apparently we're supposed to lay back and enjoy it as our politicians tear apart this country, because it might occasionally lead to a shooting.

The great thing about the Tea Party was that all of its "anger" was directed towards a peaceful purpose - replacing bad politicians with good ones via the electoral process. If you want things to get really violent, bar the door to peaceful change.

C. Van Carter said...

Also see Christopher Monfort.

jody said...

the instantaneous claim that loughner was associated with american renaissance is really all we need to know about who the authorities consider to be the enemy.

no word on DHS and their "investigation" into an actual situation, the death threats made against american renaissance and any hotel who offered to host their conference in 2009.

Kiwiguy said...

Good op-ed at WSJ:

"Shortly after November’s electoral defeat for the Democrats, pollster Mark Penn appeared on Chris Matthews’s TV show and remarked that what President Obama needed to reconnect with the American people was another Oklahoma City bombing. To judge from the reaction to Saturday’s tragic shootings in Arizona, many on the left (and in the press) agree, and for a while hoped that Jared Lee Loughner’s killing spree might fill the bill. …

There’s a climate of hate out there, all right, but it doesn’t derive from the innocuous use of political clich├ęs. And former Gov. Palin and the tea party movement are more the targets than the source.

American journalists know how to be exquisitely sensitive when they want to be. As the Washington Examiner’s Byron York pointed out on Sunday, after Major Nidal Hasan shot up Fort Hood while shouting “Allahu Akhbar!” the press was full of cautions about not drawing premature conclusions about a connection to Islamist terrorism. “Where,” asked Mr. York, “was that caution after the shootings in Arizona?”

Set aside as inconvenient, apparently. There was no waiting for the facts on Saturday. Likewise, last May New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and CBS anchor Katie Couric speculated, without any evidence, that the Times Square bomber might be a tea partier upset with the ObamaCare bill. …

So as the usual talking heads begin their “have you no decency?” routine aimed at talk radio and Republican politicians, perhaps we should turn the question around. Where is the decency in blood libel?"

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel

Mr. Anon said...

"ironrailsironweights said...

Although I support responsible gun ownership, I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a 30-round magazine should be legal for civilian use.

Peter"

I don't believe that either Seung-Hui Cho or Dr. "Jihad" Hassan used extended magazines during thier shooting rampages, and they both managed to kill more people than Loughner did. Does that mean that normal magazines should also be banned? Maybe responsible gun-owners should be limited to having only revolvers. Or only muzzle-loading pistols. Would that suit you?

Why is it that no one ever said - after Waco or Ruby Ridge, for example - that perhaps law enforcement agents shouldn't be permitted to have semi-automatic weapons with high capacity magazines or sniper rifles?

jody said...

also i wanted to say, that while we don't know enough about the case yet, judging from what we have seen of loughner's writings, videos, and how his friends describe his speech patterns, this guy might have schizophrenia. it's one of the most common serious mental health conditions and affects like 1% of people. the way he writes, those long and rambling and non-sensical sentences, and the way his friends recall his obsession with the meaning of words and the relationship between words, is all very similar to the way diagnosed schizophrenics write.

off the top of my head, i recall that mental health disorders were major factors in 2 other shootings, those of john hinckley and seung-hui cho, and may have been a factor in the shooting case of francisco duran.

Anonymous said...

"Although I support responsible gun ownership, I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a 30-round magazine should be legal for civilian use."

You will if the welfare checks stop.

Mac said...

"Why can't law enforcement do a better job of monitoring lone wackos like Jared Lee Loughner? "

Try checking out Karl Denninger's blog, The Market Ticker. If his postings over there are accurate, either the Tucson PD or Pima County Sheriff's Department dropped the ball big time with this wacko. He has a history of death threats.

One more thing. His family is blocking FBI access to their home:
http://tinyurl.com/4s277fy
I don't think anyone is questioning his guilt....what are they trying to hide?

Whiskey said...

Moe Lane is reporting that Loughner's mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors, and pulled strings with the Sheriff (Dupner) to keep her son out of jail and a mental institution after he made numerous death threats to people at the Community College, local radio personalities, and local bloggers.

Two guesses as the political affiliation and patronage of Momma Loughner. And the second one doesn't count.

jody said...

nathan gale, a diagnosed schizophrenic and a former US marine, is the guy who killed pantera guitar player darrell abbott.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_gale

note the similarities between loughner and gale. interest in military service, strange writing patterns, and how they had previously attempted to confront the person who they later shot.

they seem a lot more similar to each other than they do to jared taylor. i doubt the mainstream media will show any actual investigative acumen here though, and explore another potential angle on the situation.

Truth said...

"The great thing about the Tea Party was that all of its "anger" was directed towards a peaceful purpose - replacing bad politicians with good ones..."

Well, that goal may now be realized.

"off the top of my head, i recall that mental health disorders were major factors in 2 other shootings, those of john hinckley and seung-hui cho, and may have been a factor in the shooting case of francisco duran."

Well let's see, there are two white guys, an Asian, and a Hispanic mentioned here, but Omar Thornton is not given an excu...er...rationale by lower case jody? I guess he was of sound mind when he shot a bunch of (white) folks out of "racial hatred" Do I know how to call em' or what?

Anonymous said...

Why can't law enforcement do a better job of monitoring lone wackos like Jared Lee Loughner? They leave ample evidence of mental imbalance on the internet, and they tend to have multiple contacts with local law enforcement for bizarre behavior before fatally acting out. Perhaps police should use MMPI like questions to set up flags in the system which would be detected during background checks for a firearms purchase. Such flags might have prevented Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, from buying his piece.
=============================

probably because there are millions of these lone wackos who live a life of misery or mediocrity and die an anonymous death.

i suppose we outlaw lone-wacko'ness right?

Truth said...

"You will if the welfare checks stop."

I never read that Loughner was on welfare; where did you get that info.

Anonymous said...

In some ways, both Thronton and Mr. Loughner are Shakespeare's Hamletian heroes.. they both decided to give everything, their lives, to right what they feel is a world of sin.

do you remember Hamlet's To Be or Not To be speech ?

Truth said...

"i doubt the mainstream media will show any actual investigative acumen here though, and explore another potential angle on the situation."

They both hated white people, what other angle could there be?

jody said...

also recall that the hinckley shooting, in which james brady was paralyzed, led directly to gun control specifically designed to stop this kind of thing "from happening again!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violence_Prevention_Act

obviously, it didn't. like most liberal gun grabbing efforts. although in the case the bradys, they probably were making a genuine effort to make america safer from handgun crime, and weren't gun grabbers.

this event, which is INCREDIBLY similar to what just happened in arizona, hasn't been mentioned much, if at all, from what i've seen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_assassination_attempt

adfasdfsa said...

"Jared is a name of Hebrew origin."

So is David but we got David Duke and David Irving.

adsfasfdasf said...

"Why can't law enforcement do a better job of monitoring lone wackos like Jared Lee Loughner?"

What? FACEBOOK alone has at least a million whackos. You'll need a whole new department. The department of homeland protection against loner nutjobs(who number in the millions).

Svigor said...

So that sheriff, right? The one who said Arizona is now the Mecca for bigotry and hate, or whatever? Yeah. He's the one who played it soft on Loughner and all his death threats. And a Democrat. Maybe if he'd gone all fire and brimstone on Loughner's ass when he had the chance... Maybe if the people he'd threatened had insisted on pressing charges...

Svigor said...

Wow, Truth's on overdrive today.

Must be a sports post.

ben tillman said...

Although I support responsible gun ownership, I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a 30-round magazine should be legal for civilian use.

Simple -- the government has them. And if the government has them, the people have every right to have them as well.

Chris said...

I am also waiting for some analogy of how the gunman was a white male, shooting a jewish woman, a hispanic female and hispanic officer saved her etc...

Looks like the "anti-semitism" angle has been eliminated.

Next headline, "Jewish-on-Jewish violence provoked by destructive atmosphere of right-wing hatred. FBI questions Jared Taylor."

HL said...

"Hate better watch out, then. Paul Krugman is a badass who lives in the last house on Badass Avenue, which just gets more badass the further you go down."

Genuine lol. Krugman is one of those rare print writers who will occasionally unleash a LiveJournal-esque, spittle-flecked diatribe that he seems to honestly believe will leave his political opponents trembling with terror. He probably can't even take a laptop on a plane, lest he lay waste to the entire crew with it.

Woe unto those who unleash the vengeance of the KrugMensch. Even the stonecold RINOs in attendance at the biweekly "Destroy Civilization" gala quietly slip out the back when he arrives with his coterie of badass mofos.

jody said...

i meant my posts mainly to support my idea that the story here is mental illness, and perhaps, how to handle access to firearms when it comes to the mentally ill. various mental disorders appear in all human groups, that's what i was trying to show, with cases i had remembered off the top of my head, without researching much. i'm confident several african guy who have killed people were also evaluated and found to have legitimate mental disorders.

i definitely did not mean to imply there was never an african who starting killing people who wasn't of sound mind. i'm sure there were.

i know you hate me Truth, but i'm mostly on your side with respect to black americans. i'd like to see them succeed, and i'd like to feel ok about the (now positively ludicrous) amount of specific help and laws made in their favor. but it gets hard after a while.

i agreed totally with you, for instance, in that post where everybody was trying to pretend that europeans never riot after a major sports victory or loss. that's total baloney. anybody can riot, and they do. i've also pointed out many times, for instance, how retarded our reactions are to basketball players throwing one single punch on the court, versus hockey players, who routinely fight every game but it's "just a part of the sport".

adfasdasdf said...

What's wrong with climate of hate? Are we supposed to love illegal immigration, affirmative action, Obama's policies, Wall Street punks, etc? And how full of love are Jews for Palestinians?

Anonymous said...

While I agree that assigning political motives to a schizo serves no purpose, it's been much more prevalent on the Right in recent days.

No.

Anonymous said...

1. He shot a "blue dog" democrat, if she dies will more than likely be replaced by a lib.
2. He shot dead a conservative judge who will now more than likely be replaced by a lib (due to redistricting)
3. The sheriff tries to shift blame to "political vitriol" instead of admit that he has failed at his job. The gunman had apparently stalked the woman for years.
4. The left now has another "point" at taking away the constitutional guarantee of gun rights.

The fact that the left is pushing so hard to inflame the public with claims that are completely unfounded and the results from this tragedy makes me wonder if this "crazed gunman" who is mentally ill was not put up to this.

Anonymous said...

Off Topic:

Steve, maybe an interesting blog for you:

In Harvard We Trust? A Challenge for Progressives
http://intellectual-detox.com/in-harvard-we-trust-a-challenge-for-progressives/

CJ

Anonymous said...

Oh course this was how the narrative was framed. What is the point of being a member of the establishment if you can't rig the game in your favor and spin the story to fit your world view. It's amazing how unhinged and partisan Krugman has become the last couple of years, so much for his supporters claiming he was some kind of objective social scientist, I have never observed any distinguished social scientist on the right completely give in to partisan rancor like good old Paul has.

Great comparison Steve to the shooting in Connecticut last year, the Mainstream Media were practically falling all over themselves to excuse that shooting but on this particular nut job's act they act like it's the end of civilization.

corvinus said...

Moe Lane is reporting that Loughner's mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors, and pulled strings with the Sheriff (Dupner) to keep her son out of jail and a mental institution after he made numerous death threats to people at the Community College, local radio personalities, and local bloggers.

Two guesses as the political affiliation and patronage of Momma Loughner. And the second one doesn't count.


I've heard similar things about Dylan Klebold's mom (of the Columbine school massacre)... that she was a member of some influential family in the area... Yassenoff or something like that.

sj071 said...

Violence in the USA, nation stunned. Is Mr Shooter of Scottish Irish origin as well? Why did the victim linked Jared's Youtube account to hers? Is it true that they were family friends? Most interestingly, where is her* hubby in this story? And some other unanswered questions... Jared seemed to be interested in both National and International Socialism, a rare bird these days.

*Assume, but verify!

Anonymous said...

Why can't law enforcement do a better job of monitoring lone wackos like Jared Lee Loughner?
anarcho tyranny. THe purpose of all those organizations is to monitor and given the first chance, suppress, people of your political ilk (assuming you're an isteve reader) just look at muslim extremism - we don't even PROFILE! we're still letting in record numbers of muslims, including 'diversity visas' from Yemen, every time a muslim incident happens, we're reminded to not be bigots...

Don't you get it by now??

Anonymous said...

Maybe we'll start to hear, "Death to All Radicals" soon.

Mr. Anon said...

"Whiskey said...

Moe Lane is reporting that Loughner's mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors, and pulled strings with the Sheriff (Dupner) to keep her son out of jail and a mental institution after he made numerous death threats to people at the Community College, local radio personalities, and local bloggers.

Two guesses as the political affiliation and patronage of Momma Loughner. And the second one doesn't count."

Interesting, if true. And reminiscent of the Amy Bishop case - her mother worked for the local government in massachusetts and reportedly helped quash the murder investigation after she had killed her brother.

sabril said...

"I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a 30-round magazine should be legal for civilian use."

Here's a reason: There's no evidence that any jurisdiction which limited magazine size experienced a significant drop in unlawful gun homicides.

Here's another reason: In a free society, peoples' liberty should not be curtailed in the absence of a solid basis to believe that doing so would have a large benefit.

Here's another reason: A civilian might need a large capacity magazine to lawfully defend himself and his family. Granted, this would be an unlikely event. However mass shootings such as the one in Arizona are also pretty rare.

Here's another reason: Hundreds of thousands of people enjoy possessing large capacity magazines just like hundreds of thousands of people enjoy recreational boating, even though it results in innocent deaths on occasion.

Hope you see some reasons now.

The Gimp said...

Zed is Dead said... What's the story on this kid's background? In his high school he looked like Howard Stern or one of the Coen brothers.

~~

A friend of Loughner's says Loughner's mom is Jewish.

Anonymous said...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0111/JTA_Is_Loughners_mother_Jewish_.html?showall

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=2

His mother may be of Jewish descent.

Mr. Anon said...

"jody said...

obviously, it didn't. like most liberal gun grabbing efforts. although in the case the bradys, they probably were making a genuine effort to make america safer from handgun crime, and weren't gun grabbers."

A gun grabber is one who grabs guns. The Bradys are gun grabbers.

I can't stand these people (usually women) who have suffered some sad and regrettable loss who say "I want to make sure that no mother/wife/sister ever has to go through such a thing again...." as a prelude to banning something which ought not to be banned or somehow restricting our liberties. I feel sympathy for thier loss, but we need to tell these ladies "Hey lady. Bad things happen. They always have, they always will. Deal with it, but leave the rest of us alone."

Anonymous said...

" 'When the first reports came out about the Arizona massacre, I imagine the editorial staff of the NY Times praying, "Oh metaphorical god, don't let him be an illegal alien, don't let him be an illegal alien . . .'"

I'm sure you're right about this.

The thing is illegal aliens commit murder and mayhem all the time, at least here in CA, but only the local news outlets carry the stories. Many illegal minors are released back into the general public in the sanctuary cities like SF.

Of course, the Times wouldn't think of covering their crimes. I suppose if one of them murdered or attempted murder of a member of Congress, they might....might, I say, cover it, but they'd probably bury the name or nationality of the perp.

asdfasdfasdf said...

Most political murders seem to the work of lone nutjobs. Was there an ordered hitjob on a politician in American history--like gangsters order their henchmen to take out rivals? There was a conspiracy against Lincoln but I'm not sure that would count as an ordered hit.
Maybe Malcolm X, but he wasn't a politician though certainly a political leader.

Udolpho.com said...

One of Loughner's classmates says his mother was Jewish...that would make Loughner Jewish according to the rules of the tribe. I expect that Jewish groups will be walking back their initial assertions that this was just more proof of virulent anti-Semitism, although you can never be too sure.

More to the point, while these sorts of shootings will probably always be rare, unpatterned events instigated by the demented, the partisan raging is undiagnosed.

My view is that diversity has so decimated trust and cooperation in our society that the hostility is now totally unconstrained, which means that when these events do happen the conversation goes straight to crazy and stays there.

The most foolish sentiment expressed is that this hostility caused the shooting, as opposed to the much more sensible view that the shooting is an anomoly and the crazy discourse is the actual symptom of a larger problem (it seems quite weird to say that political rhetoric is a cause of anything). I am not holding my breath for any of our pundits to go this deep, however. These are men who think to order, the only thing they worry about is their schedule.

Anonymous said...

"I never read that Loughner was on welfare; where did you get that info."

Nothing to do with Loughner. It was a joke based on the US government being bankrupt and buying their own treasury bonds with fairy dust.

none of the above said...

Gee, what a surprise, people who were mad at talk radio, Sarah Palin, and the tea partiers before the mass shooting are now convinced by the tragedy that talk radio, Sarah Palin, and the tea partiers are all jointly to blame.

The parallel with the Ft Hood shooting is spot on. Deluded whacko murders a bunch of people. This tragedy convinces millions of people that their prior beliefs were correct, regardless of what their prior beliefs were. Politicians jump to use the tragedy to argue for whatever they were already arguing for. Talking heads on TV use it to provide a week or two of filler between commercials.

Anonymous said...

Let's be fair. When I first heard of this, I didn't know the identity of the shooter or shootee, and my first thought was to hope that some militant illegal immigrant had shot some "racist" congressman because he had opposed the DREAM Act. If that had been the case, the New York Times would have done its best to bury the fact, and our side would have played it for all it was worth.

Frankly though, I've wondered for a long time why this sort of thing didn't happen more often. The president is carefully shielded, but security for congressmen isn't worth crap. I can think of quite a few occasions where I have been close to or spoken with congressmen without passing through any sort of security at all. What is amazing is that in a country this size there are so few losers willing to take the opportunity to go out in a blaze of glory! (But keep an eye out now for copycats. I'll bet that's got all the security people shitting bricks!)

Anonymous said...

According to the Mother Jones interview with his childhood friend, Loughner's mother is Jewish, which kind of puts a dent in the anti-Semitic angle. The again, Klebold was half-Jewish as well, and picked Hitler's birthday to shoot up Columbine, so who knows what goes on in the minds of these psychos.

adafasdf said...

"According to the Mother Jones interview with his childhood friend, Loughner's mother is Jewish, which kind of puts a dent in the anti-Semitic angle."

Maybe he's like Bobby Fisher.

Anonymous said...

1. He shot a "blue dog" democrat, if she dies will more than likely be replaced by a lib.
2. He shot dead a conservative judge who will now more than likely be replaced by a lib (due to redistricting)
3. The sheriff tries to shift blame to "political vitriol" instead of admit that he has failed at his job. The gunman had apparently stalked the woman for years.
4. The left now has another "point" at taking away the constitutional guarantee of gun rights.

----------------

I don't know if Obama has gone beyond race but this guy certainly went beyond ideologies. Into Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto, To Kill a Mocking Bird and Ayn Rand books. Pomo murderer.

Anonymous said...

"Moe Lane is reporting that Loughner's mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors, and pulled strings with the Sheriff (Dupner) to keep her son out of jail and a mental institution after he made numerous death threats to people at the Community College, local radio personalities, and local bloggers."

I haven't read Moe today on Red State. If what he says is true, watch all hell break loose since the Sheriff has been taking his lumps all day for his politically charged remarks. Meghan Kelly ate his lunch.

Anonymous said...

Oh geez, have you read this? A chancellor of the UC system sent this email to his colleagues. There's so much wrong with it I won't even comment:

From the Daily Caller blog, this is his email:

Dear members of our campus community:

This weekend’s shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and the deaths and injuries of many others in the horrific event at Tucson, Arizona have shocked our nation. We here at UC Berkeley offer our sincere condolences to everyone who has been personally affected by this tragedy.

Such a brutal and violent attack on an individual who has devoted herself to public service is deeply regrettable. It calls upon us as an academic community to stop and ponder the climate in which such an act can be contemplated, even by a mind that is profoundly disturbed. A climate in which demonization of others goes unchallenged and hateful speech is tolerated can lead to such a tragedy. I believe that it is not a coincidence that this calamity has occurred in a state which has legislated discrimination against undocumented persons. This same mean-spirited xenophobia played a major role in the defeat of the Dream Act by legislators in Washington, leaving many exceptionally talented and deserving young people, including our own undocumented students, painfully in limbo with regard to their futures in this country.

On our own campus, and throughout all the campuses of the University of California, we must continue to work toward a climate of equity and inclusion for all. We must be vigilant to condemn hate speech and acts of vandalism on our campuses by those wanting to promote enmity. We must work to support dialogue about our differences and eschew expressions of demonization of others, including virulent attacks on Israel, anti-Muslim graffiti, racism towards African-Americans, Chicano/Latinos and other underrepresented minority groups, and homophobic acts. Continuing to support our principles of community will ensure a better and safer campus. We must do this now so that our students, as future leaders of this great country, will continue to set the standard for a better and safer nation.

Robert J. Birgeneau
Chancellor, UC Berkeley



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/10/uc-berkeley-chancellor-ties-az-immigration-law-to-giffords-shooting/#ixzz1AhfQxZcV

Truth said...

"i know you hate me Truth, but i'm mostly on your side with respect to black americans."

I don't hate you, Jody, or anyone else for that matter. I simply:

A) Love to ridicule

B) Look to find logic and truth in every scenario

C) Would like to see the same standard fairly applied.

Steve wrote in his story something to the effect of "wait and see just how different the media coverage is...

To which I responded "wait and see how much different the tenor of the replies is. Well look at it. After all of these posts on the Omar Thornton story saying "All the media does is make excuses for him!" (they weren't they were simply providing the 5 "w"s and one "h" of journalism.) What do we have here? 80 posts of excues (he must have had a mental problem), obfuscations (oh, they were just hoping it was a white guy) (he was reading mein kampf he's LEFT wing), deflections (should we have gun control?)(If anybody is to blame for this shooting it is the left-wing fascist Democrats) and straw-man building (You will if the welfare checks stop.)

In short, anything to obscure the basic point of the story: A (white) MAN (like the lot of you) MURDERED A BUNCH OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Now Jody, the point to this is that It was assumed that Thornton murdered a bunch of people BECAUSE he was black (that's what blacks do), or had "low IQ" (distinction without a difference?) Loughtner did not murder people because he was white, he did it for other ancillary reasons. See the difference?

And for the record, if I had to guess, I would say that you are probably a relatively smart guy, young, but smart. Your problem, in my humble opinion is the same as the problem from Compton to East Burlington, VT; you sense of cognition has been dumbed down by a 16 year intentional and systematic effort, from the age of 5, to rob you of your logical, dialectic skills. You can get them back, but you have to put in the effort.

Truth said...

By the way, you should all research MK-Ultra when you get a chance.

The Wobbly Guy said...

"In short, anything to obscure the basic point of the story: A (white) MAN (like the lot of you) MURDERED A BUNCH OF INNOCENT PEOPLE."

Interesting. From the perspective of a non-American chinese living in Asia, I do find a great deal of truth to Steve's assertions of unequal treatment by the MSM.

One's a white guy - he gets treatment A. His motives are clear! He's a right supremecist! Tea Party at fault!

The other's a black or Muslim guy - he gets treatment B. Let's not jump to conclusions, okay?

Of course, this ignores even more, shall we say, nuanced, cases like Pim's killer. White guy, believed in all the right (or wrong, depending on who you ask) ideologies. Did he get treatment A, or treatment B?

I think the current confusion the MSM is in is due to the clear fact that Loughner is just plain crazy - if he was a readily identifiable leftoid like say... Bill Ayers, the media would have thought twice about trying to smear him with right-wing ideology because it makes them even more stupid than they already are.

They would have sought to give him treatment B - all the doubt in the world. But he wasn't all that clear, so they jumped to conclusions, and hoped it would pan out.

Oops.

Anonymous said...

"After all of these posts on the Omar Thornton story saying "All the media does is make excuses for him!" (they weren't they were simply providing the 5 "w"s and one "h" of journalism.) What do we have here? 80 posts of excues..."

No excuses here, because the ties between Loughner and conservatives are tenuous at best, and probably non-existent.

How are we making excuses? If I give a valid alibi for why I could not have committed a crime it's not an "excuse" - it's an explanation.

HL said...

"A) Love to ridicule

B) Look to find logic and truth in every scenario

C) Would like to see the same standard fairly applied."

Well, 1 out of 3 ain't ba. . . no, wait, it kinda sucks actually.

We aren't defending Loughner because he's white, indeed, we aren't defending him at all. His being legitimately insane is not presented as a moral excuse, it's merely an alternate explanation to the claims that this attack is rooted in conservative "extremism." The MSM made the accusations with no compelling evidence and continued reinforcing the story even after its falsity had become obvious. (See B from your list.) Conversely, when a couple of killers from protected groups decided to gun down some innocents, the MSM used a totally different approach, one with much more caution where the potential political overtones were ignored, though this approach is too intended to reinforce liberal narratives. (See C from your list.) This is pretty much the short and long of the issue. We don't need to prove that blacks kill more than whites cause, well, this has been verified endlessly.

As for the Thornton case, whether or not he was specifically motivated by racial hate, this is certainly a plausible theory. It's also plausible that he's a garden variety spree killer and his justifications and victims were incidental. Yet the former was not entertained by the MSM at all, much less preemptively declared to be obviously true. And after the fact there was a certain amount of investigation into whether or not these allegations had merit, as if racial slurs of false reprimands are a reasonable explanation for mass murder. This is how you downplay mass murder.

That's some nice projection you got going there, Truth. The idea that whites feel a need to downplay white crime . . . oh my.

CC-bLF said...

"In short, anything to obscure the basic point of the story: A (white) MAN (like the lot of you) MURDERED A BUNCH OF INNOCENT PEOPLE."

Why should the fact that a psychotic White guy (as proven by his bizarre, deluded youtube rantings and obsessions with dreaming) mowed down some White people make us mitigate our rage when a Black guy steals beer and kills when caught and fired but WE WHITES GET BLAMED FOR IT ("racism")?

C. Van Carter said...

Note how Krugman sees moderate Republicans:

"I remembered the upsurge in political hatred after Bill Clinton’s election in 1992 — an upsurge that culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing. And you could see, just by watching the crowds at McCain-Palin rallies, that it was ready to happen again."

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

I simply:

B) Look to find logic and truth in every scenario"

Yes, this is from the man who believes that cars can run on water.

"C) Would like to see the same standard fairly applied."

Yeah, the same standard. When blacks do bad things it's the white man's fault. and when white's do bad things, it's the white man's fault.

"Steve wrote in his story something to the effect of "wait and see just how different the media coverage is..."

And, he was right. Omar Thornton himself blamed "Racist whites", Whitey, "The Man", whatever, for his troubles, and went off and killed a bunch of whites. In this case, there is no such racial angle. And nobody here has offered excuses for Loughner's crimes. Explanations, perhaps - like for example the most likely explanations - that he is just evil or that he is full-on bat-shit crazy - but not excuses. I would guess that most people here would be quite happy to see Loughner hanged. I know I would.

"By the way, you should all research MK-Ultra when you get a chance."

Yeah, we've never heard of that. Thanks a lot "Truth". Thanks for helping us stay up-to-date on 1970s revelations from the world of espionage.

Mr. Anon said...

"sabril said...

""I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a 30-round magazine should be legal for civilian use.""

Here's a reason:

..........

Hope you see some reasons now."

Excellent response. Well said, sir.

Paul Mendez said...

Krugman is really losing it...wouldn't be surprised if the NYT will remove him from their pages in the near future if he keeps this up. It must be embarassing for them to defend him to their often thoughtful serious base.

IMHO, Krugman's all-too-apparent crack-up is due to being afflicted by a terminal Cassandra Complex.

He, alone, understands how to prevent the oncoming Global Financial Collapse -- A second stimulus package at least an order of magnitude greater than the first. However, despite his Nobel Prize, nobody will listen to him. Not Obama. Not Congress. Not the Fed. Not Wall Street. Not Main Street."

He is haunted by spectres of a globe in chaos, starvation & pandemic on the giga-death scale, the utter ruin of 10,000 years of civilization, the extinction of humanity itself. Only HE (and the ghost of Keynes) knows the solutions, but

NOBODY!

WILL!

LISTEN!

Mr. Anon said...

"ironrailsironweights said...

Although I support responsible gun ownership, I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a 30-round magazine should be legal for civilian use.

Peter"

Although I support responsible exercise of the 1st amendment, I cannot see any reason whatsoever why it should be legal for you, Peter, to speak your mind freely.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

2. He shot dead a conservative judge who will now more than likely be replaced by a lib (due to redistricting)."

It should be noted that this judge, John Rolls, ruled in favor of a case brought by MALDEF on behalf of illegal aliens (who should have no standing in a US court) against an Arizona rancher. He could have thrown it out. He didn't.

http://www.maldef.org/immigration/litigation/vicente_v_barnett/

Truth said...

"No excuses here,"

No, of couse not...but just look at a few of the above posts.

"I READ SOMEWHERE HIS MOTHER HAD A BOWL OF MATZO BALL SOUP ONCE!"

" If I give a valid alibi for why I could not have committed a crime it's not an "excuse" - it's an explanation."

Yes, but "normal white guys don't commit crimes so he has to be a nutcase or a Jew" doesn't qualify as valid.

"We aren't defending Loughner because he's white, indeed, we aren't defending him at all."

"Defending" is not the key concept here; "distancing", and "binding are. The point is this a black man kills a white person and the generaltone is; "I told you, you have to watch out for blacks!"

Not criminal blacks, not insane blacks, blacks, period.

There is not one "you have to watch out for whites" post here, even though most of you unfortunate to be killed will be by whites.

Truth said...

"His being legitimately insane"

Who makes this distinction? He was not in an insane asylum. I happen to feel that the Knoxville killers were "legitimately insane", you would define them as "black."

"As for the Thornton case, whether or not he was specifically motivated by racial hate, this is certainly a plausible theory."

Why, his girlfriend and BEST FRIEND were both white.

"Yet the former was not entertained by the MSM at all,"

Why would they entertain a theory that had absolutely NO PROOF? White people, male and female claimed that he was a good man in retrospect. Why should the media make things up out of thin air just to make YOU happy?

"And after the fact there was a certain amount of investigation into whether or not these allegations had merit"

Again, why wouldn't they investigate? Leaving a story half told is hack journalsim.

"as if racial slurs of false reprimands are a reasonable explanation for mass murder."

They are a reasonable EXPALANATION. An alien invasion from the planet Mingo is a resonable explanation for murder, provided the perp believes it. They are not a resonable EXCUSE.

Am I starting to sink in here

Truth said...

"This is how you downplay mass murder."

you're the one's downplaying mass murder. There were a hell of a lot more responses (and posts, Steve-O) to some goofy black college professor getting arrested for disorderly conduct then on a post about the murder of a US congresswoman. I see the sole reason for that being the skin color of the accused in each case;

anyone care to disagree?

Truth said...

Come to think of it, I did not read one post on this thread ofering condolences to the victim's families. There were, if my memory serves me correctly, many offered to officer James Crowley.

Udolpho.com said...

Yeah Omar Thornton was a prince of a fellow, I can see why you are still bent out of shape like the humorless, insecure dumbfuck you present yourself as in these comments. Go cry about it somewhere else.

CC-bLF said...

"Am I starting to sink in here?"

"Am I starting to stink in here?"

FTFY

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

Come to think of it, I did not read one post on this thread ofering condolences to the victim's families. There were, if my memory serves me correctly, many offered to officer James Crowley."

Your memory doesn't serve you correctly - it serves you selectively. I don't recall any such condolences. What would they prove anyway? None of the victims families are likely reading this blog anyway. It would only be empty, meaningless posing.

Much like every single thing you write.

CC-bLF said...

"I did not read one post on this thread ofering condolences to the victim's families."

What for? MSNBC covered that angle thoroughly. We come to isteve to get perspective you don't get on MSNBC.

So, posts on isteve offering condolences to the family of a left-ish congresswoman, being's how they're exceedingly unlikely to be read by the family, are kinda moot.

Crowley just MIGHT be a closeted isteve reader, though.

But, since it bothers you, okay, here.
Condolences to Congresswoman Giffords' family and to the family members of all the wounded and dead in Saturday's horrific murder spree.
Feel better now? Good.

Now, as far as the 'matzo ball' crack, Loughner's mother's Jewishness is quite plausible, as the friend of Loughner claims it to be true.
Maybe you don't keep up with Fox News? They tried to put spin out there that Loughlin was motivated by anti-Semitism, which he developed from reading American Renaissance (which is ludicrous in itself). Since the evil nutjob's mom was Jewish, it kinda puts a dent in the evil White NAAAAHHHHTTSSSEEEEE anti-semitism motive.

HL said...

"Defending" is not the key concept here; "distancing", and "binding are. The point is this a black man kills a white person and the generaltone is; "I told you, you have to watch out for blacks!""

Black commit murder vastly disproportionate to their numbers a compared to whites, along with other violent crimes. Thus, a black committing murder is more representative of his group than a white. We don't spend a lot of time worrying about Chinese-Americans committing murder either, cause they don't do it much.

"Why would they entertain a theory that had absolutely NO PROOF? White people, male and female claimed that he was a good man in retrospect. Why should the media make things up out of thin air just to make YOU happy?"

Mass murder committed across racial lines is always plausibly rooted in racism. And the point, again, is that the media DO make things up out of thin, yet they always go one direction.

"Who makes this distinction? He was not in an insane asylum. I happen to feel that the Knoxville killers were "legitimately insane", you would define them as 'black'"

I and many others distinguish between being a plain old delusional psychotic and being a sociopath or having an extreme personality disorder. Loughner's incoherent ramblings suggest he's delusional. I've never seen any evidence that the Knoxville killers are delusional. Similarly, Klebold and Harris were probably just sociopaths and Sodini was a twisted misogynist. I want all killers lockup up permanently, regardless of race or their motives, as they simply cannot be trusted anymore. And the issue, once again, is not whether or not his motives are better or worse than the usual, but that they surely *aren't* based in conservative politics.

HL said...

"And after the fact there was a certain amount of investigation into whether or not these allegations had merit"

Repeating the same vague speculations and accusations again and again does not qualify as investigation into whether these allegations are true.

"They are a reasonable EXPALANATION. An alien invasion from the planet Mingo is a resonable explanation for murder, provided the perp believes it. They are not a resonable EXCUSE."

In a world where black failures are inevitably laid at the feet of white racism, yes, emphasizing the purported racism of his victims is indeed intended to mitigate the extremity of his crimes and represent a quasi-reasonable excuse. Perhaps you don't feel this way, but many liberals more or less do, even if they may not say it flat out.

Once again, the media try to downplay the crimes of protected groups while uses the crimes of whites as a way to smear conservatism, even if the crime has nothing to do with conservatism itself.

HL said...

"you're the one's downplaying mass murder. There were a hell of a lot more responses (and posts, Steve-O) to some goofy black college professor getting arrested for disorderly conduct then on a post about the murder of a US congresswoman. I see the sole reason for that being the skin color of the accused in each case;

anyone care to disagree?"

Got some news for you Truth--everyone here already agrees that murder is bad. There's no need for a lot of debate or discussion on this matter. The issue is the media, not crime in and of itself. Thus, the Crowley affair matters because it is another facet of the media's dishonesty regarding race. (The fact that the president himself got drawn into such a piddling affair attests to social importance of the event, even if the confrontation itself was trivial.)

"Am I starting to sink in here."

Yes, it's becoming evident that you are a witless blowhard incapable of even the most rudimentary reasoning. (I've none that for years, but it becomes more and more clear.) I'm reminded of an argument I had in high school another kid who couldn't grasp how to score spares and strikes in bowling. He was white, but he was also a fucking retard, so he predicted the Truth Experience quite well.

Truth said...

"Maybe you don't keep up with Fox News? They tried to put spin out there that Loughlin was motivated by anti-Semitism... Since the evil nutjob's mom was Jewish, it kinda puts a dent in the evil White NAAAAHHHHTTSSSEEEEE anti-semitism motive."

Well, I did read somewhere that Morris Dees and Tim Wise's moms were white. Don't quote me on that one until I do my research, though.

"We don't spend a lot of time worrying about Chinese-Americans committing murder either, cause they don't do it much."

40 million blacks commit roughly 4,000 murders a year.

Truth said...

Whiskey, we need another viewpoint here, tell your boys that Loughner was just a frustrated beta who couldn't get chicks.

Truth said...

"So, posts on isteve offering condolences to the family of a left-ish congresswoman, being's how they're exceedingly unlikely to be read by the family, are kinda moot.

Crowley just MIGHT be a closeted isteve reader, though"

Oh, hey, good one.

"I've never seen any evidence that the Knoxville killers are delusional."

I have; they thought torturing and murdering two innocent people was proper behavior.

"yes, emphasizing the purported racism of his victims is indeed intended to mitigate the extremity of his crimes and represent a quasi-reasonable excuse"

The press did not EMPATHIZE anything, the REPEATED it. He actually said that to the 911 operator 30 seconds before he put a bullet in his temple. If there was any time a man would dispense with political correctness and let a few "honkies" and "crackas" fly, that would probably be it. Of course that's only my humble opinion.

Although I have to said, a lot of black people would probably take the way you hold murder victims of blacks in so much more esteem than murder victims of whites as empowerment.

black/white murder = GRRRRRRRRR!

white/white murder = yawn.

Svigor said...

"As for the Thornton case, whether or not he was specifically motivated by racial hate, this is certainly a plausible theory."

T: Why, his girlfriend and BEST FRIEND were both white.

"Maybe you don't keep up with Fox News? They tried to put spin out there that Loughlin was motivated by anti-Semitism... Since the evil nutjob's mom was Jewish, it kinda puts a dent in the evil White NAAAAHHHHTTSSSEEEEE anti-semitism motive."

T: Well, I did read somewhere that Morris Dees and Tim Wise's moms were white. Don't quote me on that one until I do my research, though.

Gene Berman said...

IronRailsIronWeights:

The Second Amendment is a thinly-veiled enabler/warning against potential usurpation of power by a government grown tyrannical. It's as close as the framers could come in the "Bill" to expressing a "right to revolution" (which is always illegal--at least if it's unsuccessful).

It's overall intent is that Americans never be deprived of the human right of self-defense, whether the threatening force came from abroad or at home.

My own view of what should be permitted unregulated ownership is anything approximating ordinary fighting arms of modern infantry.

Svigor said...

My own view of what should be permitted unregulated ownership is anything approximating ordinary fighting arms of modern infantry.

Same here. I think any arms that can be "borne" definitely qualify.