April 17, 2011

Why so few immigrants from Brazil?

Tyler Cowen wants to know. I offer some answers.

86 comments:

Anonymous said...

I don't know about this one Steve.
London, England is lutted with illegal Brazilian immigrants.They mostly appear to have come via Portugal from some rather shady EU 'Portuguese ancestry' con -yet another reason why the UK must leave the EU forthwith.There must be something in the region of 100,000 Brazilians in london alone, although the 'community' (for obvious reasons), likes to keep quiet with its head down, they all seem to cram into cheap privately rented accmodation in London's less salubrios districts.
That said, they are largely an invisible minority, they rarely commit crime or cause trouble for Britons.The bulk of the diaspore appears to be female, and they have come to dominate two 'professions' in the multi-culti ant-hill that is New Labour's London.
1/. House cleaners - for rich 'feminist' type professional women who don't want to break their nails.
2/. Postitution - a glut of exotic, enthuisiastic, attractive and sweet natured women from Brazil has transformed London's prostitution market from the depths of 20 years ago ( a lot of surly, horrible, unattractive druggie lower class Brit women)into something of a buyer's market - never before has sex from atractive women been so cheap or readily available (thanks New Labour with your feminist ideology combined with neo-liberalism, you've made many a sexist old goat very happy!).Lond Brothels offer special offers with a vaiety of eager Brazilian women for remarkably low prices.Just another job 'native Brits won't do'.
Ahem.Ahem. Sorry for the Benny Hill style perve out.
There do seem to be a few brazilain males about, like Jean-Charles De Menezes, who worked illegally as a builder, that is before the 'Met's finest' remarably confused him 'with a paki' (as they put it), and pumped him full several Magnum cylinders.
Anyhow, I guess most Brazilians would rather trot off to the god ol' USA than down-at-heel, cold, damp, dirty, foggy, sub-con dominated London.
My conjecture is that apart from the Mexes snaeaking across the border, Americans are actually much better at enforcing immigration/visa restrictions at the point of entry.
In fact, Britain (by a seceret Labour Party policy), effectively abandoned all immigration controls of any type during the Blair reign of error, but as I've said mass immigration favors some and disfavors others, and in this case the raincoat brigade, generally the most despised and put-upon members of any community, were favored.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it Harriet Harman.*


Hard left, hatchet-faced, feminista (though daughter of a countess), Labour MP who attempted, last your to make 'paying for sex' illegal in the UK.

Anonymous said...

NYC is full of Brazilians, documented or not. Every dog-walker is Brazilian. They are everywhere.

Big Bill said...

They "live better because they have more land per person"? One wonders why the American aboriginals didn't live better, then. Perhaps one must also have social systems and knowledge bases in place to exploit those resources and a weak enough central government that it cannot keep up with and throttle the development in its infancy, and a pool of willing exploiters just across the ocean who can see the advantages.

Oddly enough all those advantages existed for Mexicans, too, but they couldn't be persuaded to live in Texas, California or points north. So few Spanish-speakers wanted to settle North America that the Spanish king invited my English-speaking forbearers to settle the wilds of New Spain -- about 15 miles north of Vicksburg, Mississippi. I guess that makes me a Hispanic. And if it doesn't, why not?

Anonymous said...

You explained it better than anyone else. It seems to me that the places in the U.S where Brazilian immigrants settle are also areas where many Portuguese immigrants have settled over the past several decades, especially the Brazilian enclaves in New England.

Brazilians and Portuguese people are often confused with hispanics in the U.S since Portuguese is so similar to Spanish.

Even I have fallen victim to this ignorance a couple of times in the Brazilian-Portuguese neighborhoods in New England. I remember seeing some signs in Portuguese in what I thought was the Spanish neighborhood and I was thinking to myself "wow! these hispanics are so stupid they can't even spell Spanish words correctly!". Of course, I was the stupid one.

These neighborhoods also have many hispanics and sometimes blacks.

Anonymous said...

Brazil is so huge that they have no need to emigrate since they can "light out for the territory" in their own country.

James N.S.W Australia said...

Don't start asking, some people in the government might copy you and begin initiating some efforts to import a bit of favela enrichment.

Interestingly enough, I went to apply for a job in Inverell at a meat-packing plant a few months ago. Inverell is a town up north New South Wales from where I live. I didn't receive the job but I eavedropped on the conversation my interviewer was having on the telephone and she was talking about how they have a few dozen Brazillian migrant workers coming in to work at the plant.

klaos said...

there is a brazilian community in atlanta. i've met alot of brazilians here, by circumstance. the vast majority of them are ethnically european. years ago i went to a few 'brazilian parties' with friends. hundreds of brazilian immigrants. one or two with a significant amount of african blood. the crowds had less melanin than an average collection of spaniards or portuguese.

i think that nobody pays attention the brazilian immigrants because they look and act like native whites.

Anonymous said...

A disproportionate number of cab/car service drivers in San Francisco are Brazilian. Not sure why that is.

Anonymous said...

"Why so few immigrants from Brazil?"

Hmmm...this is a hard one. Let me think...maybe because the U.S.A is broke(public debt approaching 100% of GDP, fiscal deficits of 1.5 trillion Dollars a year, trade deficits of 850 billions Dollars a year, every year for the past 30 years, GDP mostly composed of financial services and consumption with little production), whilst Brazil's economy has been booming for the past 15 years and is already the World's 6th largest and bound to surpass Britain's and become the World's 5th largest, with very little public debt, trade superavits, and a GDP that is 80% production?

There are poor Brazilians who immigrate to the U.S,, but they are mostly living in Miami and their employers are not Anglos but rich Latin Americans. The reason why Brazilians rarely immigrate, besides the economic growth of Brazil, is that Brazilians, like Chinese and Americans themselves, are very insular and don't really care about anything that happens outside their country and don't see going to other countries as an opportunity. That is what happens when your country is larger than most continents. Then, there is the cultural shock. Brazilians find the coldness, sterness and rigidness of Anglo-Saxons unbearable. Unlike Mexicans, who put up with it because they don't have a choice("poor Mexico, so far away from God and so close to the United States of America.") Brazilians prefer to leave.

Most Brazilians you see in the U.S are blond-haired boys from the upper class either on school vacation or touring with their mommies and daddies looking to get into a top American university. Only recently has the top American universities become popular with Brazil's European upper class. Brazilians love French culture and language, and even though the U.S has ruled the World of academics since the late 1940s, only in the last two decades have top American universities become popular with Brazil's rich. Lots of rich Brazilians buy apartments in Boston in the hopes that their kids will one day get into an Ivy League university and they will come visit them.

As for Steve's comments that Brazilians don't like to work, and that the prospect of working 1 hours a day doesen'r appeal to them, you are delusional. Crazy. Most Brazilians work 18 hours a day, or they starve. They work that to make U.S$500.00 a month. Do you have anuy idea how happy they would be to work only 14 hours a day in a liquor store they own to make at least ten times this amount? Steve is an ignorant who doesen't know anything outside of his own country because he is a nationalist who is not really interested in any country besides his own.

As for Brazilians not having na interest in education, what makes an AMERICAN believe he can criticize others for this? I am sorry, buddy, but you don't have a reputation for being a very intellectual culture throughout the World. The stereotype of the American is that of an uncultured man who can't even locate American on a World atlas. Is the typical American, who insults intellectuals with pejorative terms like "geek" and "nerd" and who prefers to spend his Sundays watching football and eating pork rinds and drinking beer more intersted in education than Brazilians?

Anonymous said...

There are quite a few au pairs from Brazil here in Northern Virginia.

Joe

RWF said...

It could just be that there are usually pioneer immigrants who settle first and then more and more people with connections to the pioneers join them.

Most Mexican, Korean or Indian immigrants don't settle randomly within the USA but go where existing Mexican, Korean and Indian communities already exist.

And they don't come from random parts of Mexico, Korea or India but from parts where locals have already emigrated from.

So maybe Brazil simply hasn't had a suitable pioneer community set up yet and if they did then soon there would be millions of Brazilians in the USA.

RWF said...

Anon 9:41- "The reason why Brazilians rarely immigrate, besides the economic growth of Brazil, is that Brazilians, like Chinese and Americans themselves, are very insular and don't really care about anything that happens outside their country and don't see going to other countries as an opportunity. That is what happens when your country is larger than most continents."

Your notion that large countries don't do emigration is nonsense; India and China have produced vast amounts of emigrants iver the last 200 years, not to mention Mexico & the Philippines which whilst smaller than Brazil are still very large.

Kylie said...

"Brazilians and Portuguese people are often confused with hispanics in the U.S since Portuguese is so similar to Spanish.

Even I have fallen victim to this ignorance a couple of times in the Brazilian-Portuguese neighborhoods in New England. I remember seeing some signs in Portuguese in what I thought was the Spanish neighborhood and I was thinking to myself "wow! these hispanics are so stupid they can't even spell Spanish words correctly!". Of course, I was the stupid one."


I'd agree that you were the stupid one--but not for the same reason.

The US was founded by English-speaking people for the benefit of English-speaking people.

If people coming to America can't be bothered to learn English, which is not only the first language of the majority of American citizens but used throughout the world, then why should Americans bother much about whether those foreigners' neighborhood signs are in Spanish or Portuguese?

My grandparents' native tongue was Serbian. Having studied both Spanish (which enables me to read bits of Portuguese) and Serbian, I can tell you that Spanish and Portuguese are far closer to English than Serbian is. Therefore, English is much easier for Spanish or Portuguese speakers to learn than it is for Serbian speakers. Yet both my grandparents spoke English well, though with heavy accents. And my grandmother had only a sixth grade education.

My grandparents seldom spoke English to one another (so I'll die never knowing what they argued about all the time). But they never spoke any language but English to everyone else. Their home was obviously "foreign" but they were proud Americans who did their best to assimilate. My grandmother's standard for whether or not my mother could do something was whether or not "American girls" did it.

I have no patience with or tolerance for any other attitude regarding language and immigrants to America.

Tino said...

In 2009 the Census estimated there were only 359,000 people born in Brazil (population 194 million) in the United States.

15% lacked a High School or Higher, and 35% had a college degree. Per capita income was almost exactly the average of the U.S.

By contrast, there were 1,2 million born in from El Salvador (population 7 million). 57% lacked a high school degree or higher, and only 6% had a college degree, which is still higher than Mexico.

Per capita income was a quarter below the mean, again better than Mexico.

Anonymous said...

There is more than one Brazil. Rich white Brazilians stay put cuz they have lots of money. Poor indigenous and black Brazilians generally stay put cuz they can't afford to bet visas or airplane tickets. And neighboring countries are generally no better off than Brazil or even worse off. Also, it must difficult to trek though all them jungles with snakes and piranhas.

Anonymous said...

"NYC is full of Brazilians, documented or not. Every dog-walker is Brazilian. They are everywhere."

Let's just say NYC is full of everyone.

Anonymous said...

"Your notion that large countries don't do emigration is nonsense"

China and India are densely populated large countries. And though China looks large, only around 25% of it is suitable for large populations. Brazil, on the other hand, could still be said to be underpopulated and possessed of rich lands.

Anonymous said...

"Brazilians and Portuguese people are often confused with hispanics in the U.S since Portuguese is so similar to Spanish."

Though Portuguese is the language of Brazil, I heard that Italians are the major white ethnic group in Brazil.

Anonymous said...

There are plenty of Brazilians everywhere. They fly under the radar. They tend to put Brazil completely out of their thoughts and lives.

Anonymous said...

"Brazilians, like Chinese and Americans themselves, are very insular and don't really care about anything that happens outside their country and don't see going to other countries as an opportunity. "

The Chinese are culturally insular but they certainly like going to other countries if there is the opportunity.

Lots of Chinese people are going to Africa.

AmericanGoy said...

More's the pity.

As the Eastern European women leave due to lack of work, I am stuck here in (ugh) beautiful (ugh) Midwest with American land whales and Mexican moustach-ed teddy bears.

Ugh.

Dutch Boy said...

Pioneer community? New Jersey was lousy with 'em when I visited in 1998!

the typical American said...

Is the typical American, who insults intellectuals with pejorative terms like "geek" and "nerd" and who prefers to spend his Sundays watching football and eating pork rinds and drinking beer more intersted in education than Brazilians?

Oh God, not YOU again. I'm sorry the jocks stuffed you in your locker and the pretty girls ignored you in high school but the iSteve comment section is not the place to work out your boyhood issues. Believe it or not the world doesn't revolve around your brillance. I'm not kidding. It really doesn't.

Anonymous said...

The most common nationality among the workforce in NYC's strip clubs are Russians, but I would say that Brazilians are second. Americans would probably come after that, then either Romanians or Spanish speakers.

The most typical Brazilian woman in that trade is more than half white. Some are fully white though.

Anonymous said...

Steve, I absolutely refuse to comment on your comment.

Dan in DC

Anonymous said...

"but the iSteve comment section is not the place to work out your (childhood)issues."

Really? There goes the comment section.

The young fogey said...

I heard that Italians are the major white ethnic group in Brazil.

That's Argentina, and if they're not the majority they're at least a big minority.

Anonymous said...

"There are plenty of Brazilians everywhere. They fly under the radar. They tend to put Brazil completely out of their thoughts and lives."

They seem to be more like tourist-migrants than worker-migrANTS.

We Don't Need No Stinkin Education said...

Tino

By contrast, there were 1,2 million born in from El Salvador (population 7 million). 57% lacked a high school degree or higher, and only 6% had a college degree, which is still higher than Mexico.


What source did find these stats in?

Anonymous said...

I sometimes think that most of the Brazilians in America must be in mixed martial arts cage fighting.

Somehow the Gracie's version of jiu-jitsu is the most effective style extant. In the movies it's always a little Japanese or Chinese guy who wipes the floor with the big White or Black bruisers. In real life such things do happen except the little guy with the deadly skills is a Brazilian.

Albertosaurus

Proud2BAmerican said...

I agree that the average American joe sixpack isn't especially bookish. Not like East Asians/Chinese and Indians, who see a degree as their middle class meal ticket and are good at grinding it out. However, you will find that many Americans aren't as inept as you think. They're reasonably informed on many different subjects, well rounded, mechanically gifted, and have quite a lot of ingenuity.

I recall one blogger (maybe Michael Blowhard) went to China and spent a lot of time talking to people on the street, conversing on topics ranging from political ideology to door repair. One observation he made was that the Chinese generally tended to be much less informed and inquisitive than Americans.

Americans don't come across as super intellectual because we tend to glorify the common man on the street and style our nation as an egalitarian society. If you stack the average American against foreign elites, maybe we look like buffoons. If you stack us against English yobs and French soccer fans, not so much. If you stack us against the Chinese, we're actually smarter (IQ data showing China>US is wrong). If you stack us against Mexico, let me remind you that there are only 500 bookstores in the entire country.

Americans built an industrial and military superpower out of a remote and lightly populated foreign land. We don't like to brag and rub it in your faces, but we are the best. Give credit where it's due buddy.

Not all that bad said...

As for Brazilians not having na interest in education, what makes an AMERICAN believe he can criticize others for this? I am sorry, buddy, but you don't have a reputation for being a very intellectual culture throughout the World. The stereotype of the American is that of an uncultured man who can't even locate American on a World atlas. Is the typical American, who insults intellectuals with pejorative terms like "geek" and "nerd" and who prefers to spend his Sundays watching football and eating pork rinds and drinking beer more intersted in education than Brazilians?

The masses are ignorant everywhere and the stupider the population the stupider the culture. If you think Xuxa in Brasil or Sabado Gigante in Mexico are intellectually superior to the equivalent US crap you are wrong.

I've been to Brazil and other Latin American countries a number times. Generally good people but the intellectual elite in the US is miles ahead of anything in part of the world as are most of the educated middle class (which is a far higher % of the pop in the US). I can't accurately make an estimation about how the underclass compare, but the data suggests the same gap holds.

American asians, whites, blacks and hispanics outperform their counter parts in virtually every country in the world according to international PISA exams.

John said...

Brazil is at least 45% black / mulatto.

Although about 50% of Brazilians identify as "white," most are not white in any European sense of the word. Most "whites" are probably mestizo.

Like Mexico (which is 91%+ Amerindian/Mestizo), Brazil has only a very small white minority.

Also, the Brazilian ghettos outside Boston are just as bad as the Mexican ghettos -- drugs, gangs, etc.

ATBOTL said...

There are tons of them on the East Coast. They may show up as "non-Hispanic whites" on the Census and many are illegal and thus uncounted. Newark, New York, Boston and Philadelphia all have them. They are scattered in smaller cities too. Remember, we have a totally different immigration dynamic here/; Way fewer Mexicans, fewer Asians, more Caribbeans, South Americans, Portuguese and African immigrants.

Anonymous said...

Lots of Brazilians, legal and illegal, north of Boston, and NOT in cities, like Cambridge, with a history of Portuguese immigrants.

My gym is about 50% minority, and a good number are from Brazil. The Brazilians are taller, whiter and more atractive than their South/Central American cousins. As my girlfrind says, the Brazilian women and the Hispanic chicas both wear size 4 gym outfits, but it fits the Brazilians!

Brutus

Anonymous said...


2/. Postitution - a glut of exotic, enthuisiastic, attractive and sweet natured women from Brazil has transformed London's prostitution market from the depths of 20 years ago ( a lot of surly, horrible, unattractive druggie lower class Brit women)into something of a buyer's market - never before has sex from atractive women been so cheap or readily available (thanks New Labour with your feminist ideology combined with neo-liberalism, you've made many a sexist old goat very happy!).Lond Brothels offer special offers with a vaiety of eager Brazilian women for remarkably low prices.Just another job 'native Brits won't do'.


Shhhh, don't make so much noise about it, otherwise the raging vaginas in the government will stamp it out. Can't have vaginas and their accompanying women being exploited, you know.

Anonymous said...

Whether the immigrants are Brazilian or Mexican, I look upon them differently than other groups. Brazilians, Mexicans, and the rest of those vibrant folks from Latin America are New World immigrants. Wasn't the New World supposed to be cherry-new for country creation only about 300 years ago? The whole point about the New World was that settlers could start from scratch and avoid the pitfalls of the Old World.

For example, many settlers in British North America found they could actually own land and hunt game which, unless they were nobles, they could not do in the Old World.

This flood of immigrants from the New World is basically an admission from the Latin nations that they have utterly failed to create stable, prosperous societies. This despite the fact that many Latin nations have as good if not better natural resources, land and climate than Canada and the USA.

Given the length of human civilization, three hundred years seems a remarkably small amount of time to screw up a brand new, made from scratch nation.

GuyInIllinois said...

As for why there doesn't seem to be much Brazilian emigration, I tend to agree with those who said it's because there isn't much desire or need. The Brazilian economy does have vibrant sectors for those seeking work, and more opportunities arising in the interior.

A farmer I'm somewhat acquainted with had a daughter spend some time in Brazil when she was studying Ag in college. She was in one of the areas of the interior where the land is being cleared/developed for new farms or cattle ranches. She told her Dad it was Old West atmosphere..... cruddy roads that weren't yet paved and private citizens routinely carrying guns. If you got a country to settle, why go to another one?

Not to Brazilian-bash, but something else I'll bring up: That Fabio Franco guy in the comment section of Cowen's blog who said Americans "lack a certain humanity" or something to that effect.
I've never known a Brazilian in real life but I was acquainted with a couple via the internet, and this guy's attitude reminded me of them: friendly and bubbly on the surface, but with an appalling condescension or arrogance not far beneath the surface.
I'm not saying they're representative of a whole country by any means, but I had some deja vu reading that Franco's comment.

Jeff said...

Both Sailer and Cowen agree that southern Brazil (Sao Paulo and Rio) are wealthy enough to attract the poor of northern Brazil south instead of north to the US.

I'm sure there's some truth to that. But both Sao Paulo and Rio have massive slums. Life is slowly getting better in the slums, but they still have shockingly awful living conditions.

I would think that if the inhabitants of the slums had a way out to the US or Europe, many would take it. But geographically, that's a long journey for an impoverished groups of people.

Anonymous said...

Tino said, "By contrast, there were 1,2 million born in from El Salvador (population 7 million). 57% lacked a high school degree or higher, and only 6% had a college degree, which is still higher than Mexico."

This is an amazing statistic. There are 1.2 million US residents who were BORN in El Salvador, not just people of Salvadoran descent which is obviously much higher.

In Pat Buchanan's State of Emergency, page 243, he cites JFK's book on immigration stating, that in the first 350 years of American history from colonial Jamestown to 1958, 500,000 Greeks and 500,000 Poles emigrated to the US. In other words, there are more people alive today in the US who were born in El Salvador, than all the Greeks and Poles combined who ever came to this nation.

That in a nutshell is the problem with today's immigration. The numbers are just too large.

Anonymous said...

They don't really have a social network yet to allow for large scale immigration here, and they might be late to the game regardless. The feminist industrial complex here in America would absolutely go apeshit over brothels filled with hordes of very attractive Brazilians.

Allan Folz said...

Slight shift in topic, but Steve you ought to check out the Finnish elections. The "True Finns" party, apparently an anti-immigration, anti-Euro and otherwise ramshackle agglomeration of conflicting interests won 19% of the vote, which is third overall, 1.5% behind first place, and a 15% pick-up from their last electoral showing.

I believe you've mentioned before having a surprising number of Finn readers. Perhaps create an open thread for them to weigh-in with a little local color? Well, that is if they're not too shy to post a comment. :-)

Silver said...

Brazilians find the coldness, sterness and rigidness of Anglo-Saxons unbearable. Unlike Mexicans, who put up with it because they don't have a choice("poor Mexico, so far away from God and so close to the United States of America.") Brazilians prefer to leave.

Mexico is about 1.5 times as rich as Brazil and a lot less crime prone. And a good couple of hours of Google street-viewing leads me to believe the poorer parts of Rio and SP (the only Brazilians cities available) are much more run down than any section of any Mexican city I've yet scoured (although I haven't yet checked out Mexico city, which is probably where i should have started).

Kylie,

My grandparents' native tongue was Serbian. Having studied both Spanish (which enables me to read bits of Portuguese) and Serbian,

Pa sto nisi rekla?

Anonymous said...

"Brazilians and Portuguese people are often confused with hispanics in the U.S since Portuguese is so similar to Spanish."

Sorry to nitpick, but if people from Spain and Spanish speaking Latin Americans are Hispanic, than so are Portuguese and Brazilians. Yes in popular usage Hispanic = Spanish, but the original meaning of the word Hispania applied to the entire Iberian peninsula (ie, Spain and Portugal combined), not just to Spain.

Anonymous said...

Brazilian girls rank up there with Scandinavian girls in terms of good looks and easyness. (So I"ve heard about the Brazilian girls. Scandinavian girls I can confirm.)

as said...

Agnostic left a great comment:

agnostic April 17, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Brazilian girls.

"Males are more likely to migrate, since they tend to range over a wider territory normally, are less daunted by trailblazing, and are more likely to find low-skill or semi-skilled hard labor. They’re also going to be younger, since that will make the transition easier — more time to adjust, not so set in their ways, greater ambition, and they have stronger hands and backs.

"Girls weigh heavily on the mind of a young male. So, look at the opportunity cost to young males from different countries, concerning girls. The 20 year-old Brazilian guy is giving up a 17 year-old Brazilian cutie who doesn’t hold back her affection and enjoys pleasing her man. Not that he couldn’t do OK with girls in America, but still not as good as he’d have it back home.

"In contrast, the 20 year-old Mexican guy is giving up a barrel-shaped woman with Amerindian facial features, more designed to be a housewife who runs a tight ship than to be a pleasing lover and a childlike capturer of your heart. By migrating to America, the Mexican guy won’t be able to date white girls, but our Mexicans look better than the ones in Mexico because of better health, etc. So, regarding girls, he enjoys a boost rather than a cost by migrating. Same with Central American males generally."

as said...

What agnostic said about migrating in order to meet better women also applies to Indian men. Indian men are very interested in marrying out.

The young fogey said...

I understand most Portuguese-speakers don't identify as Hispanic.

(To me Portuguese sounds like Spanish that wishes it were French.)

Regarding Scandinavian women, I understand their easiness is a myth from non-Scandinavians. They're very reserved, not friendly to strangers. I understand their approach to sex is matter-of-fact: not much happens but when it does they don't make a big deal out of it.

delilah said...

I think some people here have fantasies about Brazilian looks. While there are certainly some stunners, no less a connoisseur than the young Michael Caine (who married an east Indian beauty), was dissapointed with Brazilian women, considered them over-rated, and observed they tended to be flat-chested. That last startled me to no end, visions of topless carnivale revelers, twirling in my head. While perceptions of facial beauty can be subjective, there's no arguing with flat-chestedness, however, surprising its geographic location.
So before using this highly questionable argument in an immigration discussion, I suggest you vacation there first, and then report back on your impressions.

brazilscape said...

"There must be something in the region of 100,000 Brazilians in london alone, although the 'community' (for obvious reasons),"

Wondered about that...I knew a young Brazilian during the 80s who had lived in London with the diplomatic corps, and LOVED the place. She spoke of its "quaintness" but in a way that was flattering. She said it was like living in an ordered community with a sense of decorum and history, or something to that effect. She was deeply nostalgic for it. She didn't want to go back to Brazil because they had installed a dictator (can't recall the name, but it doesn't matter; they're all the same) who got rid of women in a lot positions and according to her, set back female professional aspirations a whole generation. She longed for London.
Now why did did the ex-Monty Pythoner make a movie called "Brazil?"

Anonymous said...

I live on 36th Ave in Astoria Queens. LOTS of Brazilians. Seems to be a mostly problem-free immigrant community so they make decent neighbors. I don't have any real insights into why the US doesn't have more, but they certainly LOVE their homeland. In terms of flag-waving pride in their native country, I'd put Brazil in the top 5 (based on what I see in and around the NY metro area):

ALL PRIDE FIRST TEAM

1. Puerto Ricans
2. Greeks
3. Dominicans
4. Brazilians
5. Trinidad

SECOND TEAM

6. Columbian
7. Jamaicans
8. Haitians
9. Venezuelans
10. Polish (immigrants)

Chances are, if you're from one of the groups I listed above and you live around NYC, you probably have your flag somewhere displayed. Brazilians have tons of pride.

Anonymous said...

I live near Newark and learned a while ago that Brazilian immigrants in the Ironbound neighborhood are heavily represented in the hardwood floor refinishing trade in northern New Jersey. They did a good job on mine but never returned the spare key I lent them. Haven't been burglarized yet, though, and it's going on 5 years since they did the job.

A little historical perspective said...

Anonymous said...

"Brazilians and Portuguese people are often confused with hispanics in the U.S since Portuguese is so similar to Spanish."

Sorry to nitpick, but if people from Spain and Spanish speaking Latin Americans are Hispanic, than so are Portuguese and Brazilians. Yes in popular usage Hispanic = Spanish, but the original meaning of the word Hispania applied to the entire Iberian peninsula (ie, Spain and Portugal combined), not just to Spain.


Since "Hispanic" is used in the US to primarily to identify an ethnic grievence group that historically experienced oppression, it makes no sense to identify Portuguese as Hispanic. Certainly, using a linguistic and European geographic term to define a New World political term and ethic group has no justification.

The Portuguese had little presence in the US before 1965. They certainly were never oppressed here in anyway much different than other unwashed immigrant groups like the Irish, Italians or Slavs.

On the contrary, one could easily argue that earlier European immigrants faced much more discrimination back when America was much less politcally correct in the 1800s and before. Read Upton Sinclairs' "The Jungle".

Furthermore, the Portuguese (and Brazilians in particular) had just about the worst record along with the Hispanics in Latin America (esp the Carribean) and Arabs for the most massive and brutal treatment of slaves. As oppression goes, the Portuguese and Hispanics have been worse than the Anglos.

Also, it makes little sense to identify "Hispanics" as oppressed in the US. Again, throughout Latin America they were brutal historical oppressors and slavers far beyond anything that Northern Europeans were. Look at the mortality rates on plantations in the Carribean and Brazil compared to pre-1865 America (esp in the North).

The overwhelming majority of Hispanics in the US today voluntarily, at great effort and usually illegally, came to America post 1965. The ethnic discrimination Hispanics was obviously not a barrier today and nothing compared to what other earlier immigrants faced.

Anonymous said...

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/04/15/chinese-girl-in-the-ghetto/

How does this fit into the Amy Chua narrative?

John said...

Brazil is the blackest of the larger countries in the New World.

A little under 50% of Brazilians are black or mulatto.

American blacks are very aware of this fact about Brazil. American rappers talk about how they want to go to Brazil to hook up with black women. I've heard American blacks talk about wanting to move to Brazil permanently.

Anonymous said...

About ten years ago, the K-Mart in Somerville (just north of Boston) was completely overtaken by Brazilians -- mestizo, mulatto and black Brazlians. At times there would be so many Brazilian gang-bangers in the parking lot that white people would be afraid to go inside.

Anonymous said...

"Brazilian girls rank up there with Scandinavian girls in terms of good looks and easyness."

Scan girls look pale and lifeless.

Truth said...

"Regarding Scandinavian women, I understand their easiness is a myth from non-Scandinavians."

No, I don't think it's a myth. Sexual attitudes in Sweden are much different than they are here. They are colder and more reserved...until they start drinking, and there are probably more alcoholics in Sweden than anywhere else, even Ireland.

Kylie said...

"Pa sto nisi rekla?

Nada. No lo recuerdo.

This was nearly 40 years ago and all I remember is the Cyrillic alphabet and the fact, unlike Spanish, Portuguese, French, German and even Swedish, there were few, if any, cognates with English.

I studied Spanish around the same time and still remember enough to read bits of it and understand it in movies. Not so Serbian. It was hard, no doubt about it.

Then again, that was my point.

Silver said...



A little under 50% of Brazilians are black or mulatto.


That's misleading. About 10% of Brazilians are "black" in the way that American blacks are. The mulattos are very, very mixed and don't really look "black" at all. (Not saying they look white, not by a long shot. But they definitely don't look "black.")

You're right that American blacks are often keenly aware of and interested in Brazil's black community. Many of them go to Brazil and attempt to rile up the local blacks American-style.

Others talk about how delighted they were to journey to that country and encounter so many "beautiful black people" just like themselves. This of course gets a free pass from liberal
"antiracist" society in a way that Germans visiting certain parts of Brazil and remarking on all the "beautiful white people" just like themselves they were delighted to encounter never would (because that's "racist").

Svigor said...

Somehow the Gracie's version of jiu-jitsu is the most effective style extant. In the movies it's always a little Japanese or Chinese guy who wipes the floor with the big White or Black bruisers. In real life such things do happen except the little guy with the deadly skills is a Brazilian.

Last I heard Gracie jiu-jitsu was old news (as in, years and years ago). They dominated for a while, then the sport adjusted, and the result was a new generation of strikers who could handle gjj grapplers.

Did they mount a resurgence or something? I don't follow MMA, just stop in once in a while. Brazilian fighter != gjj practitioner btw.

Svigor said...

I think some people here have fantasies about Brazilian looks.

Yeah I think Brazilian gals are overrated, and it's snowballed into an urban legend. Tourists hit the beaches and think they're representative. That's like visiting south Florida and thinking it's representative of the USA. And a lot of guys seem quick to confuse low barriers to entry with physical attractiveness. I bet tons of guys think Jenna Jameson was more attractive than Diane Lane.

Of course there are some stunners, it's a big country. And diverse, and that = hot to diversity fetishists. If you have a mulatta fetish, Brazil's your place.

observed they tended to be flat-chested.

True of Argentinians and Brazilians (and probably "Latinas" in general), who tend to be short on T and long on A.

Anonymous said...

Scandinavian women are like goddesses from Valinor.

Anonymous said...

Argentina is largely white.

Brazil not so much. Almost 50% of of Brazilians are mulatto or black.

Anonymous said...

The word "Brazil" is almost synonymous with miscegenation. Brazil has perhaps the largest mulatto population in the world.

We Don't Need No Socialization said...

Not all that bad:

I am sorry, buddy, but you don't have a reputation for being a very intellectual culture throughout the World. The stereotype of the American is that of an uncultured man who can't even locate American on a World atlas. Is the typical American, who insults intellectuals with pejorative terms like "geek" and "nerd" and who prefers to spend his Sundays watching football and eating pork rinds and drinking beer more intersted in education than Brazilians?

I think the point is that while America does have an intellectual class with glorious achievements, America (especially its lower middle class) also has little respect for intellectuals.

America especially has little respect for "nerds" and old-style dilletantes unless they strike it rich. Even the college crowd values only moderate intellect subordinate to street/office and gym/gridiron smarts.

The masses are ignorant everywhere and the stupider the population the stupider the culture.

But in Brazil, China, India, and even Europe, the ignorant masses respect their mental superiors. Not so for Dummerica.

If you think Xuxa in Brasil or Sabado Gigante in Mexico are intellectually superior to the equivalent US crap you are wrong.

Nobody ever said that.

Anonymous said...

"Scandinavian women are like goddesses from Valinor."

They are colorless PC twits.

Truth said...

"This of course gets a free pass from liberal
"antiracist" society in a way that Germans visiting certain parts of Brazil and remarking on all the "beautiful white people" just like themselves they were delighted to encounter never would (because that's "racist")."

Why would a German take an 18 hour flight from Germany to see "beautiul white people just like themselves?"

Spike said...

Brazilians have no reason to immigrate to Mexamerica.

Stocks sink after S&P warns on U.S. debt
Agency might cut rating on government debt because of budget deficits


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42641750/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/

helene edwards said...

I object to the description of Harriet Harman as "hatchet-faced." In her late '40's (or whatever), her looks are actually somewhat softer than those of your average 20-something California dog-walker or cubicle drone. She looks English is all.

Anonymous said...

"Regarding Scandinavian women, I understand their easiness is a myth from non-Scandinavians. They're very reserved, not friendly to strangers"

Truth is spot on about the drinking. There were a lot of Norwegian exchange students at my undergrad. They drank a lot. You could always count on them to go out-Sunday, Tuesday, whenever. The prices were probably amazingly cheap for them too. And there definitely were a lot of hook up stories.

Silver said...

Why would a German take an 18 hour flight from Germany to see "beautiul white people just like themselves?"

Do you seriously mean to say that that is the meaning you took from my post? Come off it.

Just as a black American might (totally accurately) believe he's traveling to a foreign country and then be delighted to learn that there are people there who look just like himself and describe the experience with effusive language so might, say, a German. One gets a free pass or isn't even noticed; the other is "creepy" and all but certain to be a sign of underlying "racism." That, my friend, is a screaming double standard.

Silver said...

Yeah I think Brazilian gals are overrated, and it's snowballed into an urban legend. Tourists hit the beaches and think they're representative.

The beaches effect has more to do with the willingness to show flesh than it does in it being a concentration of beautiful people. People see the flesh or the curves and they get excited and call girls beautiful they probably wouldn't look twice at if they were fully clothed at the mall. I first noticed this about six, seven years ago when "babes threads" first started hitting internet forums. Posters would pour out praise for decidedly average women who had obviously good bodies and were willing to show them off in suggestive poses.

I bet tons of guys think Jenna Jameson was more attractive than Diane Lane.

Well, she is. Total whore, of course; but much prettier, imho.

Svigor said...

Why would a German take an 18 hour flight from Germany to see "beautiul white people just like themselves?"

To see beautiful white people like themselves, on beautiful white beaches?

WTF?

Svigor said...

Well, she is. Total whore, of course; but much prettier, imho.

Lol. Check the profile (and teeth) and get back to me.

Anonymous said...

Brazilians dominate the stripping profession on the East Coast.

Silver said...

Brazilians have no reason to immigrate to Mexamerica.

Stocks sink after S&P warns on U.S. debt
Agency might cut rating on government debt because of budget deficits


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42641750/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/


I'm sure the first thing prospective emigrants do is check out the bond rating agencies for the latest.

Kylie,

Nada. No lo recuerdo.

Muy interesante. Yo te pregunte en serbio <> y tu me contestaste en espanol, dando una respuesta mas bien incomprensible. Entonces claro que no lo recuerdas, supongo. :) Pero como sabias que entendaba espanol?

Mac said...

"Well, she is. Total whore, of course; but much prettier, imho."

Maybe... just maybe. Before she got all tattooed up.

Dave said...

"Yeah I think Brazilian gals are overrated, and it's snowballed into an urban legend. Tourists hit the beaches and think they're representative. That's like visiting south Florida and thinking it's representative of the USA."

In Rio, at least, everyone goes to the beach, so the people you see there are a cross-section of Brazilian society: young, old, fat, skinny, rich, poor, and everything in between. So the average Brazilian beach goer is probably less attractive than the average American beach goer in places like Miami where people go to be seen. The difference, I guess, is that the sort of young women you'd see out in the night spots in Brazil will be healthier looking and more sensual looking than their typical American peer.

Anonymous said...

"London, England is lutted with illegal Brazilian immigrants.They mostly appear to have come via Portugal from some rather shady EU 'Portuguese ancestry' con -yet another reason why the UK must leave the EU forthwith.There must be something in the region of 100,000 Brazilians in london alone, although the 'community' (for obvious reasons), likes to keep quiet with its head down, they all seem to cram into cheap privately rented accmodation in London's less salubrios districts.
That said, they are largely an invisible minority, they rarely commit crime or cause trouble for Britons.The bulk of the diaspore appears to be female, and they have come to dominate two 'professions' in the multi-culti ant-hill that is New Labour's London."

They tend to be beautiful girls too, one worked at a shop with my a couple of Christmasses ago, lovely girl.

"True of Argentinians and Brazilians (and probably "Latinas" in general), who tend to be short on T and long on A."

Argentines? In my experience the Brazilians have big arses and the Argies have big(ish) tits (and in the case of the chaps they ARE big tits).

Painlord2k said...

Writing that Brazil is half black or half mulatto is really wrong.
For example, 25% (conservative) population of Brazil is descendant from Italians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Brazilian
The Italian versions have other data.
The larger part of the people come from the North of Italy (Veneto, Friuli, Lombardy)
Espiritos Santos and Santa Catarina have 60% of their populations descending from Italian settlers.

An example is Morena Baccarin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morena_Baccarin
The family name give it away her roots from Veneto or Friuli.

Anonymous said...

It is amazing the arrogance and stupidity of Sailer's American readers. They truly are a good representation of American Society. I mean, 60% of Americans believe that Noah's Arc was real and that dinossaurs roamed the Earth 4,500 years ago. What more needs to be said about the intellectual level of Americans? This, combined with the fact that over half of American adults cannot locate the U.S on a World atlas and that they refer to intellectuals as "geeks" and "nerds" and other pejorative adjectives tells you everything you need to know about how cultured and intellectual Americans are. Lol.

As for the "glorious achievements" of the American intellectual elite, a lot of America's greatest scientific accomplishments were done by Europeans who became naturalized American citizens. America has actually produced very, very few geniuses. The greatest American genius was Edison, a practical inventor who cared mostly about becoming rich, which is in keeping with the mercenary, burgeois, crassly materialistic and profiteering nature of American Society. Everything to Americans revolve around money-making. Science is a business. Medicine is a business. Hell, even murdering people is a business to Americans(Blackwater).

And you don't like to brag about being the greatest? Please...you love to brag. All you do is brag. Even though the U.S is not below 50th in many markers of Human development, you still brag nevertheless. You have to ask yourselves why the entire World hates you. It can't be because you are rich - putting apart the fact that America is actually broke. I mean, Norway has a higher GDP per capita and they are not hated. It can't be because you are the most powerful country. Russia has enough nukes to turn the Earth into a smoky ball of glass, and they are not hated. The French, who you think are snotty, are not as hated as you are. I will tell you the reason. The French are arrogant in a "we are culturally superior than you, but if you learn French and adpat to French culture, you can be as good as we are." Conversely, Americans are arrogant in a "we are vastly more powerful than you are, and we could wipe you from off the face of the Earth if we wanted to, and the only reason why you keep living is because we allow you to, and you will never be as good as we are because we are Americans and you are not." Obviously, the Aemrican kind of arrogance is a lot more detestable and odious than the French kind of arrogance.

And I find it funny that you Americans, who are the most classist, capitalistic and materialistic society in all of Human history, considers yourself to be a "classless" society. That is cute and endearing.

www.muebles-en-lleida.com said...

Quite effective material, lots of thanks for the article.

Fabricio Azevedo said...

I am Brazilian and never lived in USA... And don´t wish to. I would like to say that I saw quite a lot of misinformation and prejudice. Let´s began from begining.
1) Black X mulato; We have other six words to describe interratial children. But mostly are european, native and black. I have at least black, native and arabic ancestors... But many think I'm jew. No big deal.
2) Brazilian girls - Ugly and beautiful mixed in many proportions. I would say that the average Brazilian girl looks better than the average american. And Brazilian women tend to care more about her beauty.
3) Brazilians don´t work hard. LIE - We have a reputation of parting a lot. The fact is that the average Brazilian like to enjoy the life with family and friends. When they have to work, however, Brazilians work as hard as an american or a chinese.

Anonymous said...

i think you must mean "why so few DOCUMENTED immigrants from brazil."

Anonymous said...

the problem here the brasilians used to say(I AM FROM BRASIL BUT I AM PORTUGUESE OR FROM SUISSE.. MY NUN WAS PORTUGUESE... AND YOU ASK WERE ABOUT PORTUGAL... AND THEY SAY SOMEWERE IN LISBON!!!!AND THEY HAVE FALSE PORTUGUESE PASSPORT AND THEY LOOK FOR A MILIONAIRES MANS,I F THE POLICE BORDER CAME TO DORSET WAS MANY ILLEGAL BRASILIANS LIVE HERE.