August 13, 2011

"Career-ending moment"

A popular historian in England named David Starkey, who is a kind of David McCullough-type who makes television series about the Tudors, was on a British TV talk show last night (see video here), and now he's in trouble for saying out loud what everybody realizes is true, and therefore all sorts of tension builds up over whom will be the first to say it on TV. Nothing makes people madder than saying what's obviously true.

These are Ali G Riots, with blacks in the cultural vanguard and idiots of other races following their example of what's cool. (Here's the classic interview with Andy Rooney, who along with Donald Trump was just about the only celebrity in America who didn't try to help Ali G along.) The riots are a triumph of multiculturalism over white racism, something that Enoch Powell never foresaw.

From the Guardian:
David Starkey claims "the whites have become black" 
Historian provokes storm of criticism after remarks during a televised discussion about the riots on BBC2's Newsnight 
The historian and broadcaster David Starkey has provoked a storm of criticism after claiming during a televised discussion about the riots that "the problem is that the whites have become black". 
In an appearance on BBC2's Newsnight, Starkey spoke of "a profound cultural change" and said he had been re-reading Enoch Powell's rivers of blood speech. 
"His prophesy was absolutely right in one sense. The Tiber did not foam with blood but flames lambent, they wrapped around Tottenham and wrapped around Clapham," he said. "But it wasn't inter-community violence. This is where he was absolutely wrong." Gesturing towards one of the other guests, Owen Jones, who wrote Chavs: the Demonisation of the Working Classes, Starkey said: "What has happened is that a substantial section of the chavs that you wrote about have become black." 
An outcry on Twitter began with the Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn asking the BBC: "Why was racist analysis of Starkey unchallenged? What exactly are you trying to prove?" A spokesman for Newsnight said: "I think that [presenter] Emily Maitlis very robustly challenged David Starkey. 
Jones told the Guardian he believed Starkey's comments were "a career-ending moment". He said: "He tapped into racial prejudice at a time of national crisis. At other times, those comments would be inflammatory but they are downright dangerous in the current climate. "I fear that some people will now say that David Starkey is right, and you could already see some of them on Twitter. I am worried about a backlash from the right and he will give legitimacy to those views in the minds of some." 

Don't you love how nakedly careerist young journos are these days? And how they don't even pretend that jobs in the media are about free expression, but instead admit that they are about controlling speech?
On the programme, Starkey said: "The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent destructive, nihilistic gangster culture has become the fashion and black and white boys and girls operate in this language together. 
"This language which is wholly false, which is this Jamaican patois that has been intruded in England and that is why so many of us have this sense of literally of a foreign country." 
The historian and broadcaster, whose historical documentaries on Channel 4 about the Tudors established him as a household name, went on to name-check Tottenham's Labour MP: "Listen to David Lammy, an archetypal successful black man. If you turn the screen off so that you are listening to him on radio you would think he was white." 
He was challenged by Mitchell, who ridiculed his theories about the speech patterns of young people. "You keep talking David about black culture. Black communities are not homogenous. So there are black cultures. Lots of different black cultures. What we need to be doing is ... thinking about ourselves not as individual communities ... as one community. We need to stop talking about them and us.

Don't you love how to the Guardian this ineffectual sputtering of cliches is conclusive demolition?

148 comments:

Simon in London said...

The anger of the law-abiding majority should be directed at the Guardian-BBC axis. Only when they're broken can we rebuild our society.

Anonymous said...

"over who will be the first..."

jgress said...

My impression of the "Ali G" dialect is that it does represent an authentic spoken dialect mixture of Black Caribbean (particularly Jamaican) and Cockney (or rather Cockney's contemporary descendant, Estuary English). The very existence of this mixed dialect corroborates the theory that working class white and black cultures have been blending.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003013.html

An interesting parallel is the speech of Puerto Ricans in Philadelphia. They more or less completely assimilated to the black, rather than the white community, and now speak a dialect mostly indistinguishable from black Philadelphian dialect. More recently arrived Hispanics, e.g. Mexicans, did not follow this pattern, but Hispanic native English speakers now speak a regional dialect of the Hispanic English you can hear across the South West and California.

Anonymous said...

Guardian-BBC-Labor-Lib Dem.

Anonymous said...

On a positive note, at least David Cameron is trying to bring down immigration substanially and cut back on welfare benefits. His hope is that this will get more unemployed British into the workforce.

In the United States, hardly any politician thinks like this. It'd be a breakthrough if someone like David Cameron became president here.

Our own country has the equivalent of the Guardian-BBC in the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC. No matter how bad your media outlets tend to be, I guarantee you we're no better. Maybe even worse, as hard as it may seem.

spandrell said...

How did he think he would get away with it? With a black woman at his side??

Anonymous said...

"It'd be a breakthrough if someone like David Cameron became president here."

Lefty pretend conservatives? Think the field is crowded, champ.

Anonymous said...

Blacks and Puerto Ricans get along really well on the east coast. Probably there's a parallel between black-PR relations in America and chav-AfroCarribean relations in Britain.

Anonymous said...

I don't know if it's a career-ending moment or a career-building moment for Starkey.
Certaintly he was very popular with the viewing public previously with his idiosyncratic ways, and perhaps his forthright honesty has bolstered his reputation with 'middle England'.But then again the lefties are the gatekeepers of TV personality, but I'm sure he'll make a good living as a Daily Mail contributor and columnist after this.
Perhaps he has found Britain's voice (absent entirely amongst 650 odd cushy jobbed pampered scaredy-cat MPs), and will be lionized like Powell as a result.
I don't know.

Anonymous said...

To me, the authentic voice of the riot aftermath was that nice, middle-class blonde lady, Liz Pilgrim, whose baby clothes shop in Ealing (suspiciouly close to BBC television centre), west London was looted, (looting a baby shop????).
There were 'feral rats' she said angrily.Somehow the term 'feral rat' (actually a contradiction in terms as there are no domestic rats) has stuck and his become the desription de jour, also the image of Liz Pilgrim expounding has become iconic.
You'll hear a lot more of 'feral rats'.

Anonymous said...

Lefty pretend conservatives? Think the field is crowded, champ

How many American politicians are talking about cutting legal immigration?

David Cameron's superiority to our politicians isn't so much a reflection of his virtues, but the immense vices of our current political class. In comparison to them, any sane person would look like an amazing leader.

Marlowe said...

So let me get this straight: the only man likely to lose his job as a consequence of the riots will be a historian who gave his opinion on the cause when asked to do so on a late night TV discussion program watched by a tiny part of the British population (mainly comprised of upper middle class graduate professionals)?

Anonymous said...

Why are TPTB so worried about white backlash?

Brian P said...

The C Everett Koop interview was pretty good.

Sarah U. said...

Its interesting how a white man giving a vague cause of black behavior as a reason for looting when about 3/4 of the looters were black, is in a 'career ending moment', but a black mayor of Philadelphia getting downright belligerent towards black youths of all manner of their behaviors because they are perpetrators of flash mobs, is praised. Hmmm equal standards for all anyone?

Laban said...

"On a positive note, at least David Cameron is trying to bring down immigration substantially"

Don't believe it.

"Net migration in to the UK soared by almost half last year (2010) and is now close to the record levels of 2005. It is the fifth quarter in a row that net immigration has risen signalling a worrying upward trend. And two of the main drivers were a slump in emigration and a sharp rise in Eastern Europeans coming to the UK for work – two areas that will not be affected by the Government’s annual cap or other immigration measures."

Cameron is also cutting 5,000 jobs at the UK Border Agency - the people who are supposed to control immigration.

Chicago said...

I'd like to see more evidence of the actual extent of white participation in these riots, if it's more than a microscopic number of opportunists.
It could be that the numbers are being exaggerated for the purpose of presenting it as a non-racial event.

Anonymous said...

You'd never have that happen here. The US media/press runs a much tighter ship when it comes of opinion and information control.

Inkraven said...

I'm a little confused. Are they upset with him because he said it out loud, or upset with him because he said it and it happens to be correct?

NOTA said...

Chicago:

That highlights the real problem with media that are committed to avoiding some dangerous ideas and discussions, and are committed to practicing "responsible" journalism: Most of the media won't give us straight information about the racial composition of the rioters. So we are left speculating in our ignorance. When the news operations are acting like propaganda outlets, everyone assumes that what's being reported is only part of the story, and fills in the gaps as best they can. To fill in those gaps, they rely on their background assumptions and external information from other sources and model of the biases of the media and native intelligence.

With honest reporting, we would have a better picture of reality, less of which was made up in our ow heads to fill in what was too offensive to be said in print. And we'd make better decisions and follow fewer silly conspiracy theories as a result.

What's worse, the big media sources can't continue editing out inconvenient reality anymore, Cellphone videos and blogs and net access to foreign media means that making sure some facts are never mentioned and some discussions never take place is becoming unworkable. But it's really hard to change a pattern of behavior that's as old and consistent as that, so the respectabtle media keep doing it, even knowing it won't work and is contributing to their demise.

A reporter is like an accountant or structural engineer or scientist or detective--what we need from them is competence and scrupulous honesty, so that other people can trust their statements and make decisions on their basis. When you assume the reporter is suppressing facts that hurt his political party, or the engineer has signed off on the structural integrity of the building due to a bribe, or the detective is planting evidence to meet his arrest quota, all kinds of parts of larger society just stop working.

anony-mouse said...

Let's see if I've got this HBD-stuff down pat:

1/ Blacks are always Blacks. Being Black is immutable. Nothing can be done, its biology

2/ Whites are Whites except when they do bad things in which case they mutate into something completely different called 'chavs', 'proles' (Half-Sigma), or 'Blacks' (David Starkey). Biology? What's that?

(As an aside, I believe there was once a White, yes White, Englishman who had 6 wives, I kid you not. And two of them he killed. You must ask David Starkey what was his name-I believe he's written a book about him.)

Rohan Swee said...

How many American politicians are talking about cutting legal immigration? [emp. added]

And he's doing f***-all about it, as Laban Tall points out. Last I looked, Cameron had already backed down completely on curtailing non-EU immigration, after a hissy-fit from India and a word with the usual suspects.

Chicago: It could be that the numbers are being exaggerated for the purpose of presenting it as a non-racial event.

From here it looks as if they're trying very hard to avoid addressing the black/Afro-Caribbean "communities" roots of the problem, and there are enough whites misbehaving to make their job easy.

Also, even the "conservative" papers and tabs are using it as an opportunity to double-down on their "dissolute, cowardly native English vs. noble immigrants" propaganda. (Here's a particularly egregious example. English barbarians have a lot to learn from virtuous Somalis, dontcha know.)

Anonymous said...

"David Cameron's superiority to our politicians"

[citation needed] but whatever. Internet arguments don't need to have any basis in reality, right, cochise?

Aaron in Israel said...

This guy could have saved a lot of counterproductive arguing if instead of saying "black culture" he'd said "black underclass culture," and then emphasized that that's not the only black culture in Britain. In America, Amy Wax got stuck in the same dead end when she was arguing with Glenn Loury. The "there are many black cultures/no such thing as black culture" riposte seems pretty standard, and it's true, but it's not all that relevant. Realists, like this historian guy and Amy Wax, just hand the whole argument over to their opponents when they talk like that.

Old Man McGregor said...

I think my old friend Oswald said it best:


"Jazz music and black dancing are the death knell of civilization" --Oswald Spengler, The Hour of Decision, 1932.

-----

Old Man McGregor



Pakistanis and Indians Jailed for Starting Birmingham Riots

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2011/08/11/saltley-man-first-to-be-jailed-for-birmingham-riots-full-court-report-from-first-day-of-prosecutions-97319-29216078/


John Derbyshire estimates that blacks comprise about 2% of the British population but 60 - 70% of the rioters.



http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274226/epitaph-britain-john-derbyshire#

Nigel said...

"chav-AfroCarribean relations in Britain."


This has really been overstated. Most of the East End Chavs I know constantly fight and quarrel with blacks. There is a very strong racial animus between the two groups. Just because they put aside their differences for 3 days to focus on looting rather than fighting each other doesn't mean they love each other.

Anonymous said...

Inkraven,

It's not enough that you say 2 + 2 = 5, you have to believe it.

Anonymous said...

Watch Guy Ritchie's Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels.

The chavs and the blacks might do business together and may even put aside differences to loot together, but they fundamentally do not like each other.

Nanonymous said...

How did he think he would get away with it?

Maybe he didn't. Maybe he is simply tired of the lies. Maybe it is time for more people to stop being cowards and exercise their right for a free speech.

Anonymous said...

Let's think practically for a minute. Who is a plausible Republican candidate, that can actually get elected, that is a true conservative, or at least can "grow in office" in our direction?

Let's! said...

Is "Don't you love" Steve's new catchphrase?

Anonymous said...

Where's British Foreign Secretary William Hague (and his ugly deformed head), in all this?
What's happened to him, has he run to ground?
Remember he was the unspeakable jerk he embroiled Briatin into a futile stalemate in Libya.
His justification was that Gaddafi was 'killing his own people' ie actually daring to use armed force against a violent uprising.
Many Britons can only wish that the British government had half the ruthlessness and determination in dealing violent thugs as Gaddafi had.

Anonymous said...

"Net migration in to the UK soared by almost half last year (2010) and is now close to the record levels of 2005"

The data is for the 12 months ending September 2010. The elections ending Labour's 13 year reign only happened in May.

No, I don't trust that many Tories in Britain or that many Republicans here are serious about getting our immigration under control, but it's hardly fair to blame them for what happened before they arrived.

Starkey is a 66-year-old gay man raised in a Quaker household. If he's capable of saying these things perhaps it bodes well for the rest of society.

Thrasymachus said...

A great example of white people acting black- or engaging in ghetto behavior, to be a little more fair- is "All Souls- A Family Story from Southie" by Michael Patrick McDonald, about all the horrible stuff his white, Irish-American welfare family and their neighbors did while living in the Colony housing project.

Kylie said...

"Somehow the term 'feral rat' (actually a contradiction in terms as there are no domestic rats)"

There are indeed domestic rats aka "fancy rats". Apparently they are as different physically and temperamentally from their wild kin as domesticated dogs are from wild dogs.

Strictly speaking, the word "feral" doesn't just mean wild but refers to an organisim which was domesticated but has reverted to being wild.

Liz Pilgrim was spot on in her description, judging from the video I saw, except that some of the young people seem never to have been fully domesticated to start with.

Anonymous said...

@Chicago

In Manchester, Liverpool, Wolverhampton and Nottingham the mobs were almost entirely white.

Laban said...

"Learn Jafaican in two minutes" - in the Guardian of all places. Also known as twatois.

Kylie said...

"The anger of the law-abiding majority should be directed at the Guardian-BBC axis. Only when they're broken can we rebuild our society."

Good luck with that.

If the past week brought only the muted response from the law-abiding majority that I've seen reported over here, that axis of evil has nothing to worry about.

Your government, having forced its law-abiding citizens to give up their arms and their right to defend themselves and their property, outright refused to intervene and restore order when thousands of thugs rioted, looted, burned and rampaged across your major cities for several days. There were numerous injuries of innocent people and a few were murdered. The majority were essentially held hostage with no recourse whatsoever. The savagery finally ended not by the police doing their duty and restoring order but because the rioters decided they'd got enough loot and had enough fun.

I never thought such a thing could happen in England, certainly not in my lifetime, maybe in some post-apocalyptic nightmare. But then, that's what the English are living in--a post-apocalyptic nightmare caused not by a nuclear or pathogenic catastrophe but by a cultural disaster forced on them by their own government.

Anonymous said...

The PTB are upset with Stark because he violated a taboo.  Anything which contradicts the doctrine of multiculturalism is suppressed, especially if it is obviously true.

Anonymous said...


Guardian-BBC-Labor-Lib Dem.


Guardian-BBC-Labor-Lib Dim.

There. Fixed it for you.

Kylie said...

"Don't you love how to the Guardian this ineffectual sputtering of cliches is conclusive demolition?"

I don't love anything about The Guardian which I read online daily, for my sins.

I am grateful to it, though, because it led me here. It was when I read this editorial in it that I finally and forever broke with modern liberalism:

The fight against AIDS demands more than a goat at Christmas

It was this sentence that tore it: "Think of it as the first global tax: each of us pays for one person's drugs."

They won't ever stop of their own accord, they will have to be stopped.

Anonymous said...

I guess the cultural establishment doesn't like to be stripped starkey naked.

Anonymous said...

Starkey is half-right. The other problem is blacks have been half-white. Black Africans lived in some kind of balance--brutal but functional--with nature and with tribes. But once white man arrived with guns, machetes, medicine, modern ideas, and etc, it led to huge population boom, centralized tyranny, massive wars all over the continent, breakdown of village authority and rampaging youths with ak-47 and machetes, and etc.

Anonymous said...

"I'm a little confused. Are they upset with him because he said it out loud, or upset with him because he said it and it happens to be correct?"

Because he meant it negatively. If Starkey had said whites are turning black but meant it in a positive way--whites are becoming cooler, sexier, more fun, more hip, etc--, liberals would have showered him with praise. After all, leftist Swedish government made the BLANDA HO BLANA HO VIDEO

The problem was his critical tone. While there is a certain gain in acting black in some facets--more colorful, expressive, musical, etc--, there are major downsides, but we are not supposed to notice the Tragic Negro, just the Magic Negro. If we do notice the Tragic Negro, we are supposed to blame the ruinousness of blacks on white evil which made blacks crazy in the first place.

I suppose white have been becoming more 'black' since they took musical ideas/styles from blues, jazz, soul, and etc. But previous black styles had some artistic and soulful substance. And whites took it and made it their own.
But with rap culture, we have shitty black culture, and we have idiots like eminem just aping it and we have white girls 'dancing' by sticking out their butts to be groin-rubbed by both white and black males. That's where black culture is at.. and where 'white culture' is at too.

And our consumer culture emphasizes the 'here and now', and so there is no sense of heritage or continuity. For many rapper kids, even the 60s is ancient history that never existed. They only know NOW NOW NOW, ME ME ME.

Anonymous said...

I just hope he doesn't apologize.

MQ said...

This post points to a frequent contradiction in Steve's thinking. He's ideologically dug in on a basically shallow and unscientific committment to genetic differences (particularly in the relatively unimportant psychological construct of 'IQ') being all-important. But he's a smart observer and whenever he relaxes his ideology and observes the world around him he can see that cultural factors are incredibly important in determining social outcomes. So here he talks about "the whites becoming black" -- a very clear and obvious cultural shift, but one that makes no sense whatsoever if one holds to the genetic determinism/'IQ' orthodoxy.

Anonymous said...

I can't think of any place on earth that is IMPROVED by the arrival of large numbers of blacks.

Anonymous said...

To be fair to Ali G, I think he's mocking the whole white-do-black thing. It's a joke, like Beavis and Butthead are a joke on dumb white trash kids by Mike Judge.

I like B and B cuz trashy as they are, they are too stupid to do any harm. Tney might look at a riot and say 'cool', but it would never occur to them to join in.

josh said...

Somewhere Rupert Murdoch is giggling...

Anonymous said...

Donald Trump has been trashy in his own way.

Anonymous said...

Say.. blacks burn down a city. A white liberal says nothing to the blacks but goes to other whites and preaches them a sermon as if it's the whites' fault.
And if a white person blames it on blacks, the white liberal fumes and rants. He or she would never go to the black community and call out the criminals and scream at them, but he or she would scream at a white guy telling the truth.
The liberal will say it's because he or she knows the deeper truth--poverty and past history--led to black violence, but it could well be he or she's simply afraid of blacks and black violence. Frustrated by social mayhem, he or she needs someone to blame, and it's easier to blame civilized whites because they won't beat up the white liberal.

It's like in school with kids. If a big bully kid beats a kid up, the kid will take out his frustration on weaker kids than on the bully.
Though 'white man' is said to have all the power, white liberals nag on him because he's the easy target that doesn't fight back but only apologizes all the time.

Same thing at home. If a kid comes home after a bad day at school, he may take it out on his or her doting parents. Or parent, after a bad day at work, may take it out on his/her kids. A dog attacked by bigger dog will take it out on a little dog.

Frustrated by recent riots and knowing full well that it has blown a hole in liberalism, liberals are fuming at a mild-mannered white guy telling the truth. So childish.
It's like a white kid who acts black and messes up. Her parent tells her that she's been acting like a fool ever since she acted black. So, the kid screams and accuses her parents of 'racism'.

'Racism' now means disbelieving the notion that everything about black culture is wonderful. Same with 'anti-semitism'. Any criticism of Jewish power is 'antisemimtic'.
Since blacks and Jews are perfect, the fault must always lie with us. It's like since God is perfect, whatever goes wrong must be the fault of man.
Modern liberalism worships negroes and Jews, not least because Jews control the media. But if you say that, you get rick-sanchezed.

What's so crazy about white liberal infatuation with Jews/blacks is it's premised on both condescension and worship. On the one hand, Jews are saintly and helpless victims of Holocaust and blacks are the eternal slave victims who are down on their luck and need our loving affection informed with patronizing 'white guilt'.
On the other hand, blacks and Jews are superior races cuz blacks are so strong, charimatic, and colorful and Jews are so smart, brilliant, and witty.
Look down on them as a parent upon a child AND look up to them as people worshiping the messiah(Obama) and godpeople(Jews).

Anonymous said...

"The historian and broadcaster David Starkey has provoked a storm of criticism after claiming during a televised discussion about the riots that "the problem is that the whites have become black". '

The trouble with statements like this is that it further demoralizes those whites who have been marginalized enough that they start assimilating to the maladaptive norms of the minorities they live among. Also, since the UK is even more obsessed with eradicating any hint of white racism than we are, it's painfully unfair to point it out. It's essentially kicking the chavs/yobs when they are down.

So, the UK did a great job of indoctrinating the white population not to reject immigrants in any way. Inevitably, living "cheek and jowl" with people who are always shown in the best light despite a certain level of criminality will lead to whites identifying with the lower functioning group. If you care enough to reclaim such lower class whites, I'd definitely suggest focusing on positive aspects of their history as working class whites.

Anonymous said...

One thing for sure, white people need to act more black, at least in terms of passion, rage, determination, and righteousness if the West is to survive. Starkey may speak the truth but his style is too much that of a gentleman.
The future will not be a duel between gentlemen.

Anonymous said...

RE: Starkey,

Finally, the media have a White man to focus their collective rage upon;the poor dears must have been in an awful fret whilst waiting for the appropriately complexioned villain to emerge.

D.K. Schwartz said...

The BBC and the Gaurdian really are like an evil empire. And the 2 people with Starkley are so dumb and PC. The black lady says "materialism" caused the looting. Otherwise they wouldn't have looted such posh shops. That makes alot sense. She says it's the bankers fault.

Anonymous said...

The word you're looking for is negrodation.

Anonymous said...

So, I guess BLUE LABOUR is 'racist' while BLACK WELFARE is cool

dearieme said...

Starkey is, in general, a Good Thing. He once explained brilliantly why he chose the Tudor era as his specialisation. It was, he said, the first time in English history that there was enough evidence that you could write good histories, and the last time that there wasn't too much evidence to absorb.

Anonymous said...

The last redoubt of political correctness will be the mass media, particularly television. Once the monopoly of visual media is gone selling liberalism and multiculturalism will be 10 times harder. The reason the left is having such a hard time spinning this is that anybody with eyes can see what was going on. The only thing the left can do is suppression which always takes a few days when the analysis phase sets in. The internet keeps these images alive and motivated people connected but to get into the mainstream you need a mainstream media.

Prof. Woland

Anonymous said...

"He tapped into racial prejudice at a time of national crisis. At other times, those comments would be inflammatory but they are downright dangerous in the current climate. I fear that some people will now say that David Starkey is right, and you could already see some of them on Twitter. I am worried about a backlash from the right and he will give legitimacy to those views in the minds of some."

It's funny... white liberals are always dumping on English manners as uptight, repressive, ultra-correct, all too prim and proper, i.e. obsessed with form over plain truth.
Indeed, Monty Python was essentially a one-joke routine: British stiff upper-lip and maintenance of form no matter how crazy the setting.
Indeed, liberals have been saying blacks are wonderful--and UK needs more of them--precisely because blacks are so natural, expressive, impassioned, uninhibited, candid, and hold-nothing-back, unlike the fuddy duddy, hoity toity, stiffy wiffy, rigid frigid Englishmen. And liberals praised punk culture for its brazenness; its loud and lewd offensiveness was seen as countering the social-form-obsession of Britons. In other words, Brits need to be looser, say what's on their mind, and not be sooooo obsessed and afraid about saying the wrong thing. Be more American, be more black, be more Jewish. Stop being such hoity-toiters. Go for substance than form.

But whenever some British guy speaks his mind and dares to utter some truth that upsets the PC dogma, white liberals act like Victorian ladies who heard someone mention SEX. They huff and puff, they faint left and right. They demand that PROPER FORM be restored even if truth must be repressed. To Victorians, SEX was obscene. To liberals, TRUTH is 'prejudice'. We might as well come up with the word 'Pretrudice', which is truth demeaned as prejudice by the PC fuddy duddies.

Same thing goes with the gay community. Liberals attack and mock conservatives and the 1950s as repressive and bland. They hail gays as leading the movement toward greater sexual freedom and more frank discussion of sexual matters.
BUT, if you try to physically explain why gay male sex is weird or gross--male sexual organ into a defecatory hole leading to large intestine filled with poo--, they all act like you said the most horrible evil thing. So, if gays do it, it's wonderful. If you describe what they do, you are mentally sick.
Also, gays are now presented on TV as the most clean-cut people on Earth. It's like gays are the new 1950s family shows.

Anonymous said...

And same thing with blacks and rap. Via rap, blacks can act like thugs, psychos, and gesture like apes. That's cool. But if you say rappers act more ape-ish than human-like, you are a 'racist' and your career must be destroyed.

Anonymous said...

I think the riots freed up more than just the rioters. Now it is back to suppression.

Prof. Woland

Anonymous said...

"Intellectuals" and media people have their own form of rioting, and they are rioting, attacking, burning, and looting Starkey's store of truth and knowledge.

They scream it's an OUTRAGE.
Punk culture is not an outrage.
Black crime is not an outrage.
Black thuggery is not an outrage.
Out of control immigration is not an outrage.

But a white guy saying that contemporary black culture is crazy and shouldn't be emulated... THAT IS AN OUTRAGE!! Burn the heretic. He's a witch, he's a witch!!

Anonymous said...

Croydon, where the riots that were more of a (still Black dominated) authentic mix of Black and White occured, rather than where mainly Blacks rioted, as in London proper, or where angry deprived White Northerners and other provincial rioted (as in, y'know, the Norf), is rather a weird place to be in.

There is a very noticeably high proportion of WF:BM couples and babys and a lot of copying by White kids of Black boys generally. The degree to which the locals buy into multicult propaganda and Black obsessed yoof culture seems noticeably higher than anywhere else in the South East I have ever visited.

I remember talking to a White guy from Croydon (who was himself pretty amiable about race relations) and him telling me about how this Black kid's White girlfriend called him "You White bastard" and how surreal he found it. Perhaps there's probably a lot more penetration of this outside this suburban town (why assume it's unique), but it has always seemed like an odd place compared to the rest of the country as I've experienced it, in this respect.

Matt said...

The most annoying thing about race discussions is that there's almost never anything new to say. Even the "transgressive" voices seem to be sticking to old scripts, and it's boring.

Mayor Nutter is playing Cosby, this guy is playing Norman Mailer, and I'm reaching for my remote.

Charles Murray was an original, but he won't talk about race anymore.

Anonymous said...

From CHARIOTS OF FIRE to
CHAV-RIOTS OF FIRE.

Anonymous said...

"And two of the main drivers were a slump in emigration and a sharp rise in Eastern Europeans coming to the UK for work"

Not to refute your point Laban, but White British not leaving the UK and White Eastern Europeans coming to the UK are not really huge problems, as such, demographically.

The fact that White British leaving the UK concealed some of the true extent of migration has now ended will hopefully put even more of a screw on Cameron's lot.

Matt said...

I'd like to see more evidence of the actual extent of white participation in these riots, if it's more than a microscopic number of opportunists.
It could be that the numbers are being exaggerated for the purpose of presenting it as a non-racial event.


I'm sure that white participation is being distorted by the media, but I'm almost sure that it isn't so small as to be "microscopic."

If you're looking at something, especially something of a decent size, then you can see a five or ten-percent sliver of it with the naked eye. No microscope needed. No observer even suggests that white participation is lower than that.

Anonymous said...

All those 'thinkers' going after Starkey.

Thought-riots.

Anonymous said...

Wow, an Englishman cannot even speak his mind in his own country.

Anonymous said...

Didn't some TV producer get fired some time ago for making a TV series about English towns with nice white people?

Anonymous said...

Powell to the People!!

Anonymous said...

Blacks: Fight the Power.

White liberals: Fight the Powell.

Anonymous said...

Cameron is also cutting 5,000 jobs at the UK Border Agency - the people who are supposed to control immigration.

Fun fact: most of the UKBA staff are based in Croydon, where the worst Black-White joint rioting happened and where the only really major rioting in a more or less suburban area happened. A lot of the immigrants and their kids live relatively local, relative to the economic importance of the area, maybe kind of as a result of this.

In my experience, it sometimes seems like the UK Border Agency (and a lot of the lower level government in the UK) simply exists to give lower-middle class women somewhere to work and diversity figures to look.

Don't get me wrong, even though they're nice people who are generally fairly interested in the work (even the very large number of recent and second generation immigrant origins [UK government loves to look "diverse"] tend to have a reasonably serious attitude to the job), I can't see this having that much effect, except maybe in the minds of the potential immigrants. The UK Border Agency have little discretion and have build large cases of a fairly substantial weight and tightness to refuse entry or leave (before removing anyone from the country), based on rafts of continual legal challenges reshaping the law more or less to suit an open border and the EU Human Rights law, which basically does it openly. It's impractical to expect them to have that much of an impact. Look at how well they're "controlling" things at the moment!

crimethink said...

"Jones told the Guardian he believed Starkey's comments were "a career-ending moment". He said: "He tapped into racial prejudice at a time of national crisis. At other times, those comments would be inflammatory but they are downright dangerous in the current climate. "I fear that some people will now say that David Starkey is right, and you could already see some of them on Twitter. I am worried about a backlash from the right and he will give legitimacy to those views in the minds of some.""

So the worry is that people agree with him, sounds like a good reason to make an example of him. There are some things that you can't think, let alone say, especially if they are true.

irishman said...

It was pretty gosh darn racist.

He basically said black was bad and whites were good and that all blacks who are good are white and all whites who are bad are black.

British blacks are "better" than US blacks and British whites can be worse than American ones so he really is talking nonsense.

I saw it live last night. I really did have to pick my jaw off the floor. It was astonishing stuff.

Juan Jamal Arafat said...

Here are the CCTV photos of various looters. I would say it is 50/50 white/black. Hard to tell but I don't see many West Asians in there. The neocons who hoped this could be painted as a muslim riot are soarly mistaken.
http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/majoroperations/operationview/

Anonymous said...

"Blacks and Puerto Ricans get along really well on the east coast. Probably there's a parallel between black-PR relations in America and chav-AfroCarribean relations in Britain."

Dominicans generally look down on blacks on the east coast, and they aren't particular fans of puerto ricans.

Anonymous said...

So let me get this straight: the only man likely to lose his job as a consequence of the riots will be a historian who gave his opinion on the cause when asked to do so on a late night TV discussion program watched by a tiny part of the British population (mainly comprised of upper middle class graduate professionals)?

Yes.

Anonymous said...

One problem for Cameron is that his Tories are in a coalition with Lib Dem. Lib Dem are about as bad as the American Democrats. Or, to put it another way, Lib Dem are utterly insane and treasonous. So Cameron's efforts to cut migration run into all sorts of crap from the junior coalition partner.

For all the flaws of the Tories, at least they kept a tight lid on immigration. It was Blair-Brown that opened the floodgates in the 1997-2010 era. In that time, Tories have been loudly asking for more restrictive rules.

The problem is Labor-Lib Dem. Shake them off and Britain can start to rebuild.

Anonymous said...

It is amazing that nothing has arisen within sociology and political science that is roughly analogous to Freudianism vis a vis Viotorian era sexual repression. The distortions in media-driven mass conscousness regarding race are more dramatic, not less dramatic, than the demonstrated effects of mental repression vis a vis sexuality. That Freud's work conformed only partly to scientific standards is a sidebar issue. The profound role of unconcious mental processes is unquestioned in contemporary psychology and psychiatry, even if many remediations sidestep these processes via "medication" or seek to temper them from mere cognitive overrides. It is even more astounding that there is little regard in the arts--among playwrights, poets, filmmakers--for the mental terror and repression that is evident everywhere concerning the observed and felt (if unvoiced) realities of race (and gender) differences.
Macro-Madness!!

Anonymous said...

Rather than imprisoning rioters, we should imprison him. The charge: Thoughtcrime against humanity.

It'll stick.

Anonymous said...

Inkraven , it's both.

Anon.

Anonymous said...

8/13/11 5:09 AM

Anon...

Lab Rats are domesticated -- in the extreme.

Jack Aubrey said...

"Career-ending moment"?

One wonders if enough prominent members of society came out at once and told the truth, how much more honest our political discussion would be, and how much more effective the solutions to our problems. You sure as hell can't ruin that many careers.

Riot tactics are the belief that if enough people are breaking the rules at once that they'll get away with it. Time for us to start an intellectual riot.

europeasant said...

They should all adopt Anglo-Saxon names in order to integrate into the main stream.Yes,including the middle easterns.We could all become one family if only we would change our first and last names.Then there would be no reason for having video to expose the nonsense.

Anonymous said...

I wonder to what extent online publishing will undermine the liberal media's stranglehold on free expression.

Anonymous said...

This guy doesn't mention race but it's a damn good rant

beowulf said...

"The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent destructive, nihilistic gangster culture has become the fashion and black and white boys and girls operate in this language together."
Ha ha, gives me an excuse to link this UK movie trailer again (and yes the aliens should've nuked them orbit, its the only way to be sure):
ATTACK THE BLOCK, a fast funny, frightening action adventure movie that pits a teen gang against an invasion of savage alien monsters. It turns a London housing estate into a sci-fi playground. A tower block into a fortress under siege. And teenage street kids into heroes. It's inner city versus outer space.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD0gm7dHKKc

Anonymous said...

They're upset with him because it's physically painful to perform the mental gyrations and evasions required to pretend you believe the kind of crap the Guardianistas dribble into their MacBooks about community etc. So they quite rationally lash out at anyone who makes them hurt in this way.

Anonymous said...

Won't Starkey's unabashed homosexuality confer him with a measure of immunity? Or is that a trump card that only gets one out of jail on this side of the pond?

Anonymous said...

There is a kind of
'play-okay/say-nokay' rule.

You can be a black hoodlum playing at flashmobbing and rioting.
But it's not okay to say that black hoodlums are doing that stuff.

You can be a Jew playing at Wall Street theft and opening the borders for massive immigration.
But it's not okay to say many Jews are doing that sort of thing.

You can be gay and play at anal sex and spread disease and etc.
But it's not okay to say gays are indulging in behavior that is gross and disease-ridden.

You can do the poo, but you can't say it's gay.

travis said...

I doubt Starkey seldom associates with blacks. If he did, then he would understand that it is more likely that blacks are imitating Chavs than Chavs are imitating blacks.

Emma LeConte, a young woman of the Southern aristocracy, made a an observation in her diary, When the World Ended, in 1864 about blacks that still applies today:

"The negros throng around them (Yankee soldiers) and they affiliate pleasantly with their colored brethen -- even affectionately. They lie beside them on the grass and walk the streets with the negro girls, calling them "young ladies" -- and why not? Doubtless they recognize in them not only their equals, but their superiors. Perhaps negroes may come in contact with them without being degraded, but I doubt it, for the negro is an imitative race. He has been elevated to some extent but will quickly retrograde in associating with such white people as these."

Nearly 150 years later her words ring more true than Starkey's. He is wrong to attribute "Gangster culture" to Blacks. Blacks picked up the culture from White ethnic gangs in the urban industralized cities of the Midwest and Northeast after the Great Migration.

Blacks are not the problem. The White working class is not the problem. Their cultures only reflect the "violent destructive, nihilistic culture" of the Anglo-American elite. What have they conserved over the last couple of hundred years besides their own status?

Anonymous said...

"Why are TPTB so worried about white backlash?"

Probably they are all living in the past, just as Abortion and Gun Control are Big Issues for decades, distractions.

Or because their university educations made Race Relations seem like a big deal.

Nigel said...

Jamal: "I would say it is 50/50 white/black. Hard to tell but I don't see many Asians in there."

Check these articles out. They were posted on a previous thread.


Pakistanis and Indians Jailed for Starting Birmingham Riots

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2011/08/11/saltley-man-first-to-be-jailed-for-birmingham-riots-full-court-report-from-first-day-of-prosecutions-97319-29216078/


John Derbyshire estimates that blacks comprise about 2% of the British population but 60 - 70% of the rioters.



http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274226/epitaph-britain-john-derbyshire#

eh said...

"the whites have become black"

He sould've really thrown caution to the wind and called 'em wiggers.

"Career-ending moment"

Per his bio he's 66 y/o. So if he has his pile then maybe he'll decide he doesn't need to put up with all the crap anymore, and this will turn out to be a little push.

Kylie said...

"Didn't some TV producer get fired some time ago for making a TV series about English towns with nice white people?"

Yes, the wonderful series, Midsomer Murders, although it should be noted that a more than a few of those nice white people are homicidal maniacs.

Midsomer Murders Producer Suspended Over Race Row

It's about as non-PC as a TV detective series can be these days (unlike the execrable Inspector George Gently) and I'm enjoying the heck out of it on Netflix Instant Streaming.

Kylie said...

"(As an aside, I believe there was once a White, yes White, Englishman who had 6 wives, I kid you not. And two of them he killed. You must ask David Starkey what was his name-I believe he's written a book about him.)"

Yes, the black-hearted Henry VIII.

Anonymous said...

If Starkey is accused of speaking the truth to inflame 'racism', then his critics can be accused of banning the truth to suppress reality.

When leftists cannot deny a certain fact, they seek to discredit it by association. So, even if something is true, it's 'evil' because certain 'wrong' elements might approve of it. Using this logic, all liberal views are evil since radical leftists might approve of some of those views.
Associative discrediting is an act of desperation.
It's practiced by the Right too. I cringe when I read Buchanan discredit Darwin because Nazis and secular commies accepted evolution.

Ron Potato said...

"I cringe when I read Buchanan discredit Darwin because Nazis and secular commies accepted evolution."

To be fair, Atheist Darwinism is plainly incompatible with Egalitarianism, and indeed the pre-War Atheist Progressives were eugenicists and Social Darwinists.

Anonymous said...

Their cultures only reflect the "violent destructive, nihilistic culture" of the Anglo-American elite.

What "Anglo-American elite"? This statement demonstrates you are out of touch with how the United States works.

Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny and Saddam's weapons of mass destruction?

Anonymous said...

Lefty Jewish presenter Emily Maitlis can't stomach what Starkey is saying..Sky New's Kay Burley should be asked to step down for her repulsive reporting of the riots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s_JQsOECyc

Anonymous said...


He was challenged by Mitchell, who ridiculed his theories about the speech patterns of young people. "You keep talking David about black culture. Black communities are not homogenous. So there are black cultures. Lots of different black cultures. What we need to be doing is ... thinking about ourselves not as individual communities ... as one community. We need to stop talking about them and us.


Heh, very coherent thoughts coming from a black female author there. Clearly the UK equivalent of an affirmative action recipient.

Anonymous said...

The problem is violent Britons emulate blacks while peaceful Britons emulate gays.
Even non-gay British men act and talk like fairies. Just look at Tony Blair and David Cameron. Not gay but so gay-ish. Such gayishness is useless against thugs.

I think the original warrior elites of Europe were manly and not gayish. One had to be brash and tough to win respect and prove you're stronger.

But once the aristocrats were firmly entrenched in power and the masses were securely put in their place, the elites could take things more easily and go for the 'finer things in life'. They got more into art, high culture, fashion and dress, refined manners, etc. And people who were influential in such matters were gays(or closet gays). So, over time, the British elites came to talk gay-ish, dress gay-ish, and become ooh-lala or hoity-toity or whoopsy-doopsy. They could put on such airs cuz they felt secure in their upper stations. And lower classes were taught and reminded that the well-dressed hoity-toiters were superior, had the power and culture, and should be feared, admired, and emulated. For centuries, the gayish elites had the power while the lower classes looked up to the 'gentleman' class.

This gayishness among European elites has remained. They seem to believe in maintaining certain standards in behavior, attitudes, and styles. They try to be 'above it all', which may be why many European elites found Obama so endearing. Though supposedly 'for the people', Obama has that air of aristocratic privilege with upturned nose and gentle restraint.

So, as Europe becomes more violent, riotous, wild, and nuts on the bottom, the gayish elites will be more irrelevant, despised, and mocked by the masses.
Euro elites forgot that the masses had been tamed and put in their place long long ago by violence. It was only after the order was founded and established that elites could put on fancy airs.
But, today's elites seem to think it is fancy-pants airs that restores order. They fail to realize that fancy-pantsery is product of order founded by violence(in the name of law and order) than a tool for creating order in the first place.

Anonymous said...

So... there is more than one black culture. There are lots of them. True enough. There's Detroit, Philadelphia, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Somilia, Atlanta, Watts, Jamaica, Haiti, Paris suburbs, London Afro-Carib community, etc. But they all seem to have something in common, something none too pleasant.

At any rate, there are lots of white/western nationalist cultures too, but the left is eager to bunch them altogether as 'nazi'. Breivik was a lone terrorist, but leftists said everyone-opposed-to-immmigration is a terrorist just like Breivik.

Anonymous said...

JJ Arafat - "http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/majoroperations/operationview/"

Looking at those pics of rioters and toting them up in a spreadsheet - the demography is 60% Black, 35% White, 5% South Asian.

Demography of the city of Birmingham (where the shots are sourced from) is - " 70.4% of the population was White (including 3.22% Irish & 1.49% Other White), 19.5% British Asian, 6.1% Black or Black British, 0.52% Chinese, 2.9% of mixed race and 0.63% of other ethnic heritage."

So merging mixed race and Black, we have a per capita representation level of White - 0.5, Black (amalgamating Black and Mixed race in the American fashion) - 6.7 and South Asian - 0.25 (assuming they are all Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, those would have a rep of around 0.35).

Now since the demographics are younger around ethnic minorities and older among Whites, I'd say that it probably normalizes to age around 6-8x White representation level among Blacks and a 1/4x White representation level among South Asians (and you could take it as 1/2 White representation level among Muslims, if you assume they're all Muslims, and correspondingly assume 0 Hindu representation).

Of course, the totals as a whole might be Blacker or Whiter depending on how the other areas work out - I'd guess them to wash out at least somewhat Blacker and less White and South Asian, considering London is where the main action is at.

Anonymous said...

Black mentality:

"We blacks need to stick together, but if whites talk about a 'black culture', we need to tell them it's not about 'us and them'."

Jews pull the same thing.
Jews emphasize Jewish unity, Jewish networking, Jewish interests.
But if non-Jews taken notice, Jews say there is no such thing as a 'Jewish power network'.
Yeah, tell the Pallies that.
Tell American Renaissance that.

Anonymous said...

Is he related to Ringo?

Anonymous said...

Starkey is a 66-year-old gay man raised in a Quaker household. If he's capable of saying these things perhaps it bodes well for the rest of society.

He's also a historian and has some sense of the scale and sweep and diversity of human societies, unlike the narrow minded masses who have no contemplation that anyone anywhere can ever have an utterly different society and have a logical fug that, yes, other societies can be very different while having some people in it, most people, who are recognisable characters, are recognisably human and have not incomprehensible motives. So I don't know there's much hope.

peace frog said...

Reached for comment in Washington, Joe Biden and Harry Reid commended Lammy for being clean and articulate and having no Negro dialect...

When I moved to New England I was struck by the uncontroversial caricature of the 1992 LA riots as an "uprising" or ideological statement of some kind. I recall the Koreatown ambience of that weekend, as well as the nightly news footage of people ransacking electronics stores--really no point explaining to a Vermonter. The best rejoinder is the subsequent Sublime song, preserving the alternative history complete with inaccurate date.

I enjoyed the HBD-mocking remarks above too ("black is biological, white is socially constructed") though they seem only to reinforce the principle that politicization of riots is an idiot's game. Which side do you honestly think is sweating it now? Yes there are limits to racial analysis of the universe but I can't see how the establishment will score points off this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oixzxxaMtQ0

Even Sailer was able to demonstrate some self-awareness writing about the "Tel Aviv Spring" which seems like a tetchier version of Bonnaroo, whereas white-collar reporters are thinking about careers, in Owen Jones's revealing line. They say all this for each other and their friends and try to do the perennial smoothing-over routine so as to impress something upon lumpen whites and black underclass. The audience will sense they are being conned (cf. Walter Russell Mead on Philadelphia).

gordon-bennett said...

The bbc does all it can to suppress the truth about who is looting. For example, by showing only those looter videos/stills showing white perps and concentrating on blacks when reporting on the cleanup volunteers.

But all their panel discussions feature more black contributors than is usual.

They won't say it out loud (God forbid) but we know what they're thinking.

Anonymous said...

at least David Cameron is trying to bring down immigration substanially and cut back on welfare benefits. His hope is that this will get more unemployed British into the workforce.

Thats news to me. My understanding is he wants to have limits on net immigration.

If 1 million white Brits leave but are replaced with 1 million Somalis, thats OK, net immigration zero.

Anonymous said...

In Manchester, Liverpool, Wolverhampton and Nottingham the mobs were almost entirely white.

But there was less violence, less damage and less looting and numbers were lower.

Anonymous said...

If you were here in the last week you will staggered by the contortions of the MSM. You could go hours and never hear any description of the demographics, none at all.

Its quite staggering.

The newspapers come in with the followups of arrests, even the supposed right wing Daily Mail managed to have a feature showing a majority of looters as white.

Like I said, staggering.

Anonymous said...

Their cultures only reflect the "violent destructive, nihilistic culture" of the Anglo-American elite.

Guess that explains all those law abiding black folks in Brazil and France dominated by those Anglo-Americans.

Jack Aubrey said...

"Whites are Whites except when they do bad things in which case they mutate into something completely different called 'chavs'

Blacks are about 2% of the population but were about 67% of the rioters. Whites are over 90% of the population but less than 33% of the rioters. That means blacks were about 90 times more likely to participate in the riots than whites. No explanation for the "chavs" is needed. The white underclass is no doubt a problem, but the rate of bad behavior isn't very comparable. Great Britain has imported itself a race problem, and for no reason other than the fact that the elite hate the native British.

James Kabala said...

Midsomer Murders and Law & Order have similar white murder rates, but the producers have different motives.

Anonymous said...

If Britain were a sane country, the riots would be a "career-ending moment" for the political-media class.

ben tillman said...

As an aside, I believe there was once a White, yes White, Englishman who had 6 wives, I kid you not. And two of them he killed. You must ask David Starkey what was his name-I believe he's written a book about him.

If that's the worst you can say about Henry, you don't know much about history.

Anonymous said...

Make no mistake, taking place right now is a concerted effort by the left to destroy this man's career--as a warning to anyone else who might think to make similar observations. And the point is not only to ruin your reputation but to ruin your bank account. When it comes to the race game, for the left it's war and they don't take prisoners.

Sean68

Cameron said...

Fuck Americans are wankers. They only offer Ali G two responses, it's either the overly polite smug type or the tough guy 'my times valuable' one. No fucking sense of humour.

Anonymous said...

Also, gays are now presented on TV as the most clean-cut people on Earth. It's like gays are the new 1950s family shows.

Exactly. You could read 10 million words about gay culture in the mainstream media without ever encountering the words "top", "bottom", or "rimming".

Cennbeorc

Truth said...

"In Manchester, Liverpool, Wolverhampton and Nottingham the mobs were almost entirely white.

But there was less violence, less damage and less looting and numbers were lower."

And that makes them a good thing!

"Blacks are about 2% of the population but were about 67% of the rioters. Whites are over 90% of the population but less than 33% of the rioters."

And you and you came to this reliable conclusion by flying to England, interviewing hundreds of citizens in all of the riot spots, speaking to the local police and press, and pouring over thousands of hours of video and pictures -- of course.

Kylie said...

"When it comes to the race game, for the left it's war and they don't take prisoners."

Yes, we all saw the evidence of that last week.

My favorite photo was of a line of English police in full riot gear, standing sternly amid broken glass in front of a store, Debenham's, that had obviously already been looted.

Riot Police Caught Loitering

Anonymous said...

maybe we all should get on the site of the rioter, the winning side

Grumpy Old Man said...

Interestingly, Jamaicans and Barbadians in the US, along with Africans, tend to be upwardly mobile to a much greater extent than African-Americans. In fact, West Indians are sometimes called "Black Jews," on the assumption that they are more entrepreneurial than their fellows. Perhaps immigration is more selective than it was in the UK.

Scratch a Colin Powell or Eric Holder and you'll find West Indian roots.

Anonymous said...

Thats news to me. My understanding is he wants to have limits on net immigration.

If 1 million white Brits leave but are replaced with 1 million Somalis, thats OK, net immigration zero.


Good point. Never though about it that way. Granted that's still a lot beter than what we've got in the U.S. I'd also guess that it'd be mostly Poles that would be coming in with such a system, as they're not restricted by the new immigration rules.

I think one issue that Cameron faces is that Lib Dem don't want any limits on immigration. If he had a majority in parliament, it'd be different.

Donna said...

Whites cannot "become black". They can only give in to their essential nature of violence and mayhem , which may become exacted through a need to see what they believe to be social justice. And when that happens they simply look "black" because in the last 200 years, those are the people who had to battle for justice.

London's Burning said...

Seeing a lot of confusion in the UK right wing about whether to acknowledge the racial character of the riots, and can't tell if it's tactical or reflective of their educated mentality. If you campaign on law-and-order you'll inevitably be accused of racism anyway; perhaps they figure there's no point in engaging the parlor pinks?

However I had thought the Brit media supposedly to be the "brutally honest" ones compared to U.S., if so it's amazing how whipped they've become. BTW that Swedish show "Grotesco" that somebody linked above is hilarious... The amount of blackface alone must be enough to support a healthy cosmetics industry (their John Grisham parody was insanely brilliant)

Anonymous said...

"In fact, West Indians are sometimes called "Black Jews," on the assumption that they are more entrepreneurial than their fellows."

These tend to be really light-skinned West Indians.

Anonymous said...

I think it's odd that most people would describe British Upper Class as having a gay emulating culture, while the same judgement does not fall on the more etiquette and refinement obsessed Japanese.

The reason the Japanese show an interest in proper etiquette is that this is to control violence and protect face. It's not because they're "taking it easy". It's no different for the Europeans. If gays emulate this, then so be it.

Anonymous said...

Great Britain has imported itself a race problem, and for no reason other than the fact that the elite hate the native British.

Part of the importation is that the urban elites, they feel like Britain should be more like America because it is, for them at least, the prestige country, the axis mundi, where the moving and shaking happens (and America is better in lots of senses). And that means having a racially diverse society. Copy them enough and eventually we'll converge with them in wealth and status, right, and the moving and shaking will come here? And (in their minds) we can even be *better* than America by having more racially tolerant society (which we can't do if we don't have any racial minorities).

If China were the prestige country, the importation probably would not have happened. Not that this it is the *fault* of Americans - the Labour Party and governing zeitgeist in Britain in the 1990s made this choice, not Americans (although I daresay the American media establishment progandized for it when it had the chance).

Jack Aubrey said...

"I think it's odd that most people would describe British Upper Class as having a gay emulating culture"

That is complete and utter bullshit (the post you cite, not you). The British elite do not emulate gays. It is gays who emulate the British elite. Whatever else you may think of the current crop of British elite - and I think they've destroyed their country - their mannerisms are just fine; dignified, even.

Anonymous said...

"I think it's odd that most people would describe British Upper Class as having a gay emulating culture, while the same judgement does not fall on the more etiquette and refinement obsessed Japanese."

It's because there's an air of flamboyance about gays, even when they are restrained. You can see it among French aristocrats too.
English aristocrats were finely mannered and controled, but their restraint had an aspect of 'show' about it. It was an exhibition of inhibition.

Japanese, otoh, are not flamboyant, not even subtly. Their manners might be said to be feminine but not ooh lala gay.

Anonymous said...

"And when that happens they simply look "black" because in the last 200 years, those are the people who had to battle for justice."


The supposedly poor and oppressed people committing these technology mediated crimes have access to the latest electronic equipment, transportation to the scene of the crime and the means to afford both.

This behavior is just greed and lawlessness. What society has done for these people already and what will no doubt be done for them in the future is what whites have traditionally known was their own responsibility.

In times past whites would have been both greatly able to benefit from such subsidies as well as grateful for the leg up.

Kylie said...

"Japanese, otoh, are not flamboyant, not even subtly. Their manners might be said to be feminine but not ooh lala gay."

Agreed. The difference between traditional Japanese manners, formality, concern with the arts, etc. vs. that of some Western gays is the difference between the exquisite and the extravagant, the essential and the frivolous, the earnest and the ironic.

Svigor said...

And you and you came to this reliable conclusion by flying to England, interviewing hundreds of citizens in all of the riot spots, speaking to the local police and press, and pouring over thousands of hours of video and pictures -- of course.

Internet amateurs are kicking the snot out of your old coworkers. Why don't you go point the finger at the latter? They're the ones leaving a vacuum for amateurs, rumormongers, and conspiracy theorists to fill. I.e., not doing their GD jobs.

Svigor said...

Blacks are not the problem. The White working class is not the problem. Their cultures only reflect the "violent destructive, nihilistic culture" of the Anglo-American elite. What have they conserved over the last couple of hundred years besides their own status?

Good thing the "Anglo" elite is long gone, replaced by an Ashkenazi elite. The healing began long ago. We only have to wait another 100 years or so and blacks will be "repaired."

Svigor said...

Macro-Madness, if that's your way of saying western society is completely nuts (as in, clinically - if there were clinics operating properly at that level) when it comes to race, ethnicity, and the rest of the identity politics spectrum, then I agree. I've been saying that since 2005 or so.

Svigor said...

Perhaps the problem the "black is racial, white is cultural" folks have is that they don't understand there's a civilizational threshold. I say it's a mix of behavioral genetics (IQ, OCEAN, x factors) and culture raised above a certain point, others say it's IQ. Whatever. Point being, you can push people below it, but you can't raise people above it. Same way you can chop a tree down if you want it gone, but not exceed its growth limits if you want it to flourish.

Anonymous said...

It's because there's an air of flamboyance about gays, even when they are restrained.


You've never met a single gay person in your life, have you?

Truth said...

"Internet amateurs are kicking the snot out of your old coworkers. Why don't you go point the finger at the latter? They're the ones leaving a vacuum for amateurs, rumormongers, and conspiracy theorists to fill. I.e., not doing their GD jobs."

Sure, if they actually do work, and say come to a meaningful conclusion ON THEIR OWN using legitimate methods of research and tabulation, not "well they rioters are 70% black because Jared Taylor told me they were"

Truth said...

"Perhaps the problem the "black is racial, white is cultural" folks have is that they don't understand there's a civilizational threshold...."

There are many black people that I could name that have surpassed the white "civilizational threshold" far beyond anything you've accomplished, so is it really a threshold?

Anonymous said...

You can see it among French aristocrats too. English aristocrats were finely mannered and controled, but their restraint had an aspect of 'show' about it. It was an exhibition of inhibition.

I never knew you knew so many English and French aristocrats, rather than media depictions of them from their Republican offshoots marketed to women and gays.

I'd guess they probably were and are less nerdy and are more expressive and social than their Japanese counterparts, for all that they were probably more interested in sports and imperialism and less interested in poetry and flowers than their Japanese counterparts.

David said...

A career must be (and it increasingly is) a despicable thing, and those who have careers must be (and increasingly they are) despicable people.

Svigor said...

There are many black people that I could name that have surpassed the white "civilizational threshold" far beyond anything you've accomplished, so is it really a threshold?

You still haven't gotten tired of the "yeah but I know a smart black guy" non-answer?

My point was about races, not individuals. It's difficult to impossible for the small black talented class to make any headway on advanced civilization because the large black middle is below the threshold. Without an outside influence (e.g., whites) to create an advanced civilizational milieu for them, your talented blacks wither on the vine. No man is an island.

Obviously there's a case to be made for a ladder of thresholds, a series of civilizational levels. SS Africa could handle a certain level of subsistence farming, social organization, etc. E.g., the Bantus expanded across SSA and pushed aside less capable peoples (hunter-gatherers).

Your argument smacks of innumeracy; we could posit a black Newton and that wouldn't determine whether there is a threshold, or whether enough blacks meet it, just as I could be a media and government breast-feeder like you without determining whether or not most whites meet it.

Sure, if they actually do work, and say come to a meaningful conclusion ON THEIR OWN using legitimate methods of research and tabulation, not "well they rioters are 70% black because Jared Taylor told me they were"

But that's what should be expected. The media abdicates, and the amateurs, speculators, rumor-mongers and conspiracy theorists fill the void. Cause, meet effect. You should be pointing the finger at your old colleagues. Otherwise it's like blaming loan sharks for filling the void when banks stop lending. If TPTB (and their hangers-on) don't like it, they should stop distorting the market for their own ideological ends.

Svigor said...

You've never met a single gay person in your life, have you?

I've met few homosexuals, but IME "effete" is the inherent adjective, not "flamboyant."

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