March 7, 2012

Mr. and Mrs. Kucinich

Long-time Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich has lost in the Democratic primary. I never quite got his appeal, but the old dog must have had something going for him, as judging by Mrs. Kucinich, who now has time to fulfill her rightful destiny of starring in a syndicated TV show entitled "Boadicea, Warrior Queen."

120 comments:

The Grim Peeper said...

A little wikipediaing [Dennis, Elizabeth Harper Kucinich] seems to indicate a total fertility rate of zero.

She's pushing 35, so they really need to get work on preserving those genes of hers.

BTW, does anyone know whether Marcy Kaptur is Scots-Irish?

She seems to have gone to great lengths to identify herself in every biographical snippet as simply "Polish American" - not Catholic, not Scots-Irish, and not even Lutheran or Huguenot.

IHTG said...

Yeah, Roissy had a post about this already, years ago.

andres said...

The photo looks like a Celtic queen being introduced to the press by his elf spokesman

Ian said...

What can she possibly see in the short, old, balding millionaire?

Anonymous said...

Kucinich is one of those people you see in various fields who was full of promise, destined for Great Things, but somehow peaked a bit early and has spent the rest of his life in a sort of slow glide path of non-accomplishment. It was easy to think that a guy who got elected mayor of what was still a major American city at the age of 31 was a probable future President. Things just didn't pan out.

At least with child stars you don't really expect them to grow up into matinee idols, you are just pleasantly surprised if one or two of them (e.g. Kurt Russell, Christian Bale) actually does.

I was thinking about this when Matt Yglesias' new e-book came out yesterday. A e-book. Back around the 2004 election you'd look at him and think: wow! The amazing prodigy child blogger--I *need* to read this guy to get a look into the mind of the New Generation. Eight years later, instead of the 21st century Walter Lippman, he's just another thirtysomething, paunchy DC blogger churning out the conventional wisdom with a side of snark. Like a thousand other guys in Washington.

Jeff W. said...

Dennis Kucinich is a man who has two distinctions. He is the looniest of all 435 members of Congress, and he is also the congressman whose height is most exceeded by that of his wife.

Anonymous said...

Paging Roissy and Whiskey.

Harry Baldwin said...

She's six feet tall, 31 years his junior, and has a tongue stud.

Dennis Kucinich: alpha gnome.

Sgt. Joe Friday said...

I'm sure Roissy has some insight on this.

jm said...

As the English would say, Mr. Kucinich is a LAD.

H. Kissingirls said...

He was briefly a haute-media sensation in the 70s after being elected boy mayor of Cleveland

Anonymous said...

She will leave him now that he has lost political power.

Kylie said...

The magnificently columnar Mrs. Kucinich has only one balcony but she reminds me of some of the houses in UPH.

Mrs. Kucinich

dogzma said...

Do you think Mrs. K is a nerd girl? Despite her statuesque beauty, I seem to remember it being obvious she wasn't merely a trophy wife for Kucinich as she seemed perhaps more knowledgeable about his political agenda than he did.

Camlost said...

Queen Boadicea marries the troll king. Sounds like a great episode.

Doug1 said...

She even appears to be wearing a collar. Umm, I mean choker.

Awful said...

Kucinich was defeated by a more old-fashioned dem, Marcy Kaptur, who has been congressperson for my district for as long as I can remember. The media framed the primary election as being a race between two liberal-progressives with no differences between them. But Marcy is actually a pro-life, pro-Keystone XL, anti-NAFTA, rust-belt type. Kucinich is a more nationally famous lefty who got millions from his Hollywood liberal friends.

Geoff Matthews said...

Nice.

Anonymous said...

She's 34 and he's 65, so it's not just in the looks and height departments that they're an odd couple.

But they seem to love each other so more power to them. I respected Kucinich because he seems to honestly believe what he says, even it what he says is sometimes crazy. Most Dem's are utterly cynical and dishonest and would sell their own mothers into prostitution in exchange for political power.


A little wikipediaing [Dennis, Elizabeth Harper Kucinich] seems to indicate a total fertility rate of zero.


He does have a child from a previous marriage though.

I need a haircut said...

Dennis Kucinich as you've probably read from the pieces about him, stands on principle. He's a Ralph Nader, Ron Paul-like fighter for what's right, fighting for old school America (sans Paul's kookiness). It's a real shame he lost, people like him are so rare. I know I read something about what his wife found attractive about him, but, I don't remember. It might have been they were fighting together for some cause.

As for not being Great, his directness (he tried to get Bush impeached I think) and integrity were just so out of synch with the rest of our world that he got marginalized.

Anonymous said...

Why, oh why, did people have to mention Roissy?

What on earth does he have to do with this hot women? A hot chick's pic gets posted and you guys immediately think of a dude. I think perhaps "betaness" is not your problem.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

DOM Dirty Old Man said...

How come leftist don't decry the disgusting abuse of patriarchal power by this DOM (dirty old man) in exploiting the relative naive innocence of a woman half his age?

What about the snarky comments by older women saying Kucinich must be emotionally stunted and not man enough to handle a *mature* woman his own age?

Henry Canaday said...

I guess Yasser Arafat was taken.

Elsewhere in mating news, it is now official. Forty-one percent of American kids are born bastards, but we have no sluts in America. It is the liberal version of the Virgin Birth.

And have you see recent pictures of Ringo Starr? He looks 20 years younger than his age. How did Ringo Starr, of all people, wind up taking such good care of himself? Right, he avoided knighthood and married a Jewish girl.

As Ronald Reagan said, there are simple answers. They are just not easy answers.

What Next said...

Sad to see Dennis go. He seems like yet another domino to fall in our sterilization of public opinion (a la Buchanan, Paul, etc)

He may have held faulty models of reality that other leftist use to sell inane policy decision, but at least he was a rare leftist who believed in his convictions.

His wiki page cites these unusual positions for any pol, pseudo-left or pseudo-right:

* Wanted the private Fed Reserved to be brought under control of the US Gov't via the Treasury Dept

* Critic of US interference in Venezuela

* Critic of Iraq and Afgan wars

* Critic of Presidential power overreach (eg undeclared and secret wars in Libya, etc).

Truth said...

"What can she possibly see in the short, old, balding millionaire?"

Kucinich isn't rich.

"She will leave him now that he has lost political power."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB40YZkCHhE

Anonymous said...

I suspect Denny will get a gig on some cable show, maybe MSNBC, maybe even become a leftie FoxNews "contributor." As long as he's invited to all kinds of Hollywood and DC gigs, she'll be likely to stay with him awhile, but if those things don't happen, he'll be looking for wife #4.

You know, just as men are grossed out by thoughts of male homosexual activity ( we straight women are too--we're just not as vocal about it), we are similarly grossed out by a normally sized woman and, well, a midget. Forget whether the word is accurate or inaccurate, you know what I mean. When we see a woman who towers over a little man, it conjures up some really unpleasant images. In fact, it's not uncommon for women to share that a recurring nightmare is to be chased by a midget. No lie. It comes up in conversation and most of us trace it back to visits to the circus.

I recall seeing a tv shot of the actor from "Fantasy Island," Herve Villechaize," posing with his normal-sized wife, and a group of us "ewwing" in revulsion. Okay, so Kucinich isn't as short as Villechaize, but his wife is a tower and the same images come to mind. Same response: Ewwwww.

Anonymous said...

Wiki says the mafia put out a hit on him when he was mayor, but he was hospitalized and missed being hit.

Anyone know if that's true?

Anonymous said...

"She's six feet tall, 31 years his junior, and has a tongue stud."

Think she ties him up? (Thoughts of the Seinfeld episode with George tied to the bed while the hottie steals his wallet from his pants are flitting through my mind.)

Anonymous said...

According to Democratic mouthpiece Larry O'Donnell of MSNBC, there weren't issue differences--glad to know there are.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV?id={B94439FF-7689-4B43-9CD1-C8E5685210B8}&title=Kucinich%20Loses%20MSNBC%20Distraught

BTW, what is causing Rachel Maddow's mouth to grow more and more crooked? (And hey, do I spy eye shadow on her?)

idealart said...

"She will leave him now that he has lost political power."

No she won't. He'll stay in Washington as a lobbyist and really rake it in.

Marlowe said...

She has the cool gaze & poised demeanor of a high class dominatrix. Kucinich's posterior likely resembles a plan of the Swiss railway system.

dogzma said...

Is Mrs. K celtic? I thought she was good slavic stock.

The Anti-Gnostic said...

Eight years later, instead of the 21st century Walter Lippman, he's just another thirtysomething, paunchy DC blogger churning out the conventional wisdom with a side of snark. Like a thousand other guys in Washington.

There won't be any more Walter Lippman's. The media cartel is being smashed, and the process isn't even close to done.

If you want to see how prole media jobs are getting, look at those pathetic specimens reading the teleprompter on local news. Broadcasters are still hiring based on "communication skills" for old time's sake, but it's only a matter of time before American broadcasters finally figure things out and dish up Mexican weathergirls.

Speaking of Matt's new book, it's another hilarious example of a leftist doing backflips to avoid saying what he really means: "Rents Are Too Damn Expensive For Journalists Who Want To Live In Hip White Urban Neighborhoods!"

Crawfurdmuir said...

Boadicea? Really? Will she paint herself with woad? Blue might go well with her silver tongue stud.

Will she sing Beaumont and Fletcher's lyrics?

"O lead me to some peaceful gloom,
Where none but sighing lovers come,
Where the shrill trumpets never sound,
But one eternal hush goes round.

"There let me soothe my pleasing pain,
And never think of war again.
What glory can a lover have,
To conquer, yet be still a slave?"

Her husband, however, would be better suited for a role in a different Beaumont & Fletcher play - that of the grocer in "The Knight of the Burning Pestle."

Anonymous said...

"What can she possibly see in the short, old, balding millionaire?"

To ask the question is to answer it.

Anonymous said...

You'd tap it, I'd tap it...

Anonymous said...

Tom Cruise for president?

Ray Sawhill said...

Wow, what a babe Mrs. K is.

I liked Kucinich's support for the American Monetary Act.

LINK

Anonymous said...

Women like that should only be allowed to breed with special forces.

Anonymous said...

it's only a matter of time before American broadcasters finally figure things out and dish up Mexican weathergirls.


The poor dumb feminists are still under the impression that it's American men who are the biggest chauvinists in the world. They're gonna HATE the new latin America we are becoming. Much like the Jews and their idiotic project of importing brown-skinned people from around the world to replace all those philo-semetic whites ..

Anonymous said...

have you see recent pictures of Ringo Starr? He looks 20 years younger than his age. How did Ringo Starr, of all people, wind up taking such good care of himself? Right, he avoided knighthood and married a Jewish girl.



So now Barbara Bach is a "Jewish girl"! I guess I can be one too.

Ringo's had a couple of wives - maybe that's his secret?

Glaivester said...

He's a Ralph Nader, Ron Paul-like fighter for what's right, fighting for old school America (sans Paul's kookiness).

OF course, he has enough of his own kookiness to make up for whatever of Ron's he is lacking.

Anonymous said...

I actually like Dennis and Elizabeth Kucinich.

However, Elizabeth Kucinich as Boudicca is pretty hilarious.

Let's get real.

How about Katy Storie as Boudicca?

http://livingforsport.skysports.com/mentors/katy-storie

not a macher said...

Thoughts of the Seinfeld episode with George tied to the bed while the hottie steals his wallet from his pants are flitting through my mind

You thought the thief who tied George up was hot? Jeez.

Anonymous said...

He does have a child from a previous marriage though.

But "total fertility rate" is calculated for FEMALES [rather than for males] precisely so as to take into account the phenomenon of the alpha male and his many bastard children by his greater harem.

In other words, while Dennis Kucinich himself might have a "male" fertility rate of 1.0, if, over the course of her fertile lifetime, the first Mrs Kucinich had only that one child, then the true ["female"] TOTAL fertility rate chez Kucinich would be:


[1 child for Wife #1 + 0 children for Wife #2] / [2 Wives] = 0.5 TFR.


And 0.5 is simply disastrous - it indicates [absolute] extinction within a generation or so.

Anonymous said...

"his many bastard children by his greater harem" = "his many [possibly bastard] children by his greater harem"

Marlowe said...

In fact, it's not uncommon for women to share that a recurring nightmare is to be chased by a midget. No lie. It comes up in conversation and most of us trace it back to visits to the circus.

Parisian whores nicknamed Toulouse-Lautrec the 'cock on wheels'.

Anonymous said...

Since Whiskey is indisposed, allow me to stand in: the redhead is getting plenty on the side, and will soon dump DK in any case.
Gilbert Pinfold.

Anonymous said...

But "total fertility rate" is calculated for FEMALES [rather than for males] precisely so as to take into account the phenomenon of the alpha male and his many bastard children by his greater harem.


Does this every actually happen, outside of some peoples fevered imaginations? Can you cite for me some of these "alpha males" who have large numbers of children via their "harem"?

And you're wrong - total fertility rate is calculated for females, but not because of "alpha males". It's because female fertility is the limiting factor in the reproductive process.

Anonymous said...

"total fertility rate" is calculated for FEMALES [rather than for males] precisely so as to take into account the phenomenon of the alpha male and his many bastard children by his greater harem.



In that case the "total fertility rate" for Kuninich's "harem" is one child, not zero.

Anonymous said...

"Does this every actually happen, outside of some peoples fevered imaginations?"

Nope.

Just look at the people touting it. Losers all. Roissy is and over-the-hill DC drone with no kids and no prospects.

It's all quite silly.

Anonymous said...

I suspect Denny will get a gig on some cable show, maybe MSNBC, maybe even become a leftie FoxNews "contributor
nope 'wrong' kind of lefty on Israel, the fed, etc.

Anonymous said...

@Henry Canaday
a 'civilization' such as that can't last long.

Thanks liberals.

Anonymous said...

"He is the looniest of all 435 members of Congress, and he is also the congressman whose height is most exceeded by that of his wife."

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz could wear the crown of the "looniest," and before he lost re-eletion, Alan Grayson from Florida was the King of Loonies.

Anonymous said...

Kucinich looks like the little waxed figure you put on top of a wedding cake to represent the groom.

On second thought, maybe he *is* that little waxed miniature you put atop the cake.

Grover Cleveland said...

I don't get all this praise here for Kucinich because he was an "honest" lunatic rather than a "cynical" one. Who cares what Democrats' motives are in promoting destructive policies? And for that matter, surely it's worse if you really believe their nonsense.

Anonymous said...

"I guess Yassar Arafat was taken."

One of the ugliest men ever born.
He was gay, too, right?

Anonymous said...

Samantha Power is another tall, redheaded, Celtic, liberal, crusading type married to a liberal, physically unimpressive, political type.

Dysgenics at work.

In the past they probably would have paired with physically strong, robust, courageous, honorable, Celtic warrior types.

Anonymous said...

"You thought the thief who tied George up was hot? Jeez"

That was my memory of the episode. You know what they say about memory.

Anyway, upon reflection, I should have remembered that on only one occasion did George Costanza attract attractive women, and that was when he acted as if he were a "bad boy."

Anonymous said...

"Does this every actually happen, outside of some peoples fevered imaginations? Can you cite for me some of these "alpha males" who have large numbers of children via their "harem"?"

The Wikipedia mentions 9 kids from 4 women for Fidel Castro, though there may be more. Mick Jagger has 7 children by 4 women. It seems that Clint Eastwood has 8 children by 6 women. Kevin Costner has 7 kids with 3 women. Roger Daltrey has 8 kids with at least 4 women (the Wikipedia article is unclear on the exact number of mothers). Brian Jones of the Stones had 6 kids by 6 women before dying at the age of 27. And those are just some of the white alphas. My impression has always been that black alpha celebrities, star athletes especially, have more kids on average than white alpha celebrities.

Tony said...

What he lacks in vertical size, he probably makes up for in horizontal size.

Anonymous said...

In that case the "total fertility rate" for Kuninich's "harem" is one child, not zero.

It's not the "total fertility" [1 child], it's the "total fertility RATE":

[1 child] DIVIDED BY [2 wives] = 0.5


Does this every actually happen, outside of some peoples fevered imaginations? Can you cite for me some of these "alpha males" who have large numbers of children via their "harem"?

A fantastic example [alluded to last week here at iSteve] was Anthony Quinn, who was born in 1915, and who had children as follows.

With Katherine DeMille:
Christopher, born 1939
Christina, born 1941
Catalina, born 1942
Duncan, born 1945
Valentina, born 1952

With Jolanda Addolori:
Francesco, born 1963
Danny, born 1964
Lorenzo, born 1966

With Friedel Dunbar:
Sean Quinn, born 1973
Alexander Anthony Quinn, born 1976

With Katherine Benvin:
Antonia, born 1993
Ryan Nicholas, born 1996

Now from [the alpha-male] Quinn's perspective, that's a "total fertility" of

5 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 12 children

But from the point of view of the species, Homo sapiens, that's a "total fertility RATE" of only

[12 children] / [4 mothers] = 3.0

Anonymous said...

I don't live in DC. It's possible that all the nookie in DC is being taken by a handful of "alpha male" Congress critters.

Given the frailty of middle-aged and late-middle-aged male flesh, I find it highly unlikely. But I suppose it is remotely possible.

It's not happening in the country at large though. If it were to happen, it would be something to get pissed off about. But it's not happening a present.

Anonymous said...

Both these Congresscritters, Kaptur & Kucinich, are ancient. Is Census redistricting the only way to get rid of a Representative-for-Life now? I remember Kaptur complaining about the Grenada adventure. Actually I think both of them are/were relatively anti-abortion and also anti-NAFTA (Lake Erie manufacturing cities, duh)

Anon87 said...

OT: Another reason to cut defense spending.

Anonymous said...

Kucinich was always an easy target with some of his statements, but to his credit he was never afraid to exercise some independent thought. I think that's an important safety in any institution or movement.

Ultimately, I'll take "kooky UFO guy" over the "pass the bill so we can find out what's in it/vote for me if you love Jesus" zombies.

Anonymous said...

But from the point of view of the species, Homo sapiens, that's a "total fertility RATE" of only

[12 children] / [4 mothers] = 3.0


Right. The statistic of TFR doesn't capture the centralization of male fertility.

Anonymous said...

Dennis must toss salad really, really well.

Anonymous said...

"Ultimately, I'll take 'kooky UFO guy' over the "pass the bill so we can find out what's in it/vote for me if you love Jesus" zombies."

"Kooky UFO guy" wants me to pay for every damn person who is too lazy to get off his or her butt and wash cars or windows for a living if that's what it takes. And sometimes, dammit, that IS what it takes. I know several people who've made nice businesses for themselves simply because they were willing to work.

Kucinich made excuses for slackards and sluggos.

Truth said...

"Debbie Wasserman-Schultz could wear the crown of the "looniest," and before he lost re-eletion, Alan Grayson from Florida was the King of Loonies."

Alan Grayson was probably the smartest man in congress.

Baloo said...

Great post and great comments. Linked with speculation, on Ex-Army HERE.

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

Alan Grayson was probably the smartest man in congress."

This statement says more about you than does about him.

hbd chick said...

from elizabeth kucinich's wikipedia page:

"In the course of her work with Zarlenga, she met Dennis Kucinich, who proposed to her during their second meeting...."

i bet he did! (^_^)

Mr. Anon said...

"I need a haircut said...

He's a Ralph Nader, Ron Paul-like fighter for what's right, fighting for old school America (sans Paul's kookiness)."

Other way round. I liked Kucinich though, as Congressmen go. Despite his lefty policies, some of his libertarian instincts were sound.

Anonymous said...

"Alan Grayson was probably the smartest man in congress."

Truth, "smartest" in what way?

Anonymous said...

"Does this every actually happen, outside of some peoples fevered imaginations? Can you cite for me some of these "alpha males" who have large numbers of children via their "harem"?"

The Wikipedia mentions 9 kids from 4 women for Fidel Castro, though there may be more. Mick Jagger has 7 children by 4 women. It seems that Clint Eastwood has 8 children by 6 women. Kevin Costner has 7 kids with 3 women. Roger Daltrey has 8 kids with at least 4 women (the Wikipedia article is unclear on the exact number of mothers). Brian Jones of the Stones had 6 kids by 6 women before dying at the age of 27. And those are just some of the white alphas. My impression has always been that black alpha celebrities, star athletes especially, have more kids on average than white alpha celebrities.


Yes, and among white professional class people it's a real thing too, although not as extreme as these celebrity examples. The limiting factor is the social acceptability of early parenthood on one end and extreme May-December pairing on the other. But two families for a high-status man are not unusual at all, and you will see three if a man is willing to push one of those taboos.

Anonymous said...

She has the cool gaze & poised demeanor of a high class dominatrix. Kucinich's posterior likely resembles a plan of the Swiss railway system.

His body is a roadmap of pain.

Thats from The Frighteners btw. Couldnt find a relevant clip.

as said...

I searched the comments for "elf" but found only one reference.

Steve Sailer said...

Yes, he looks like the Princess's spokesgnome.

Anonymous said...

Why do people keep listing Hollywood stars as examples of alpha-ness? They are all make believe personalities. Let's not confuse reality with fantasy.
Maybe Kucinich's wife has more than the usual amount of intelligence and wanted to pair up with a guy with some brains and strength of character.

Truth said...

"Truth, "smartest" in what way?"

Well, in the HBD way, of course. When in Rome...

Raised in a housing project in the Bronx, he attended Bronx High School of Science (demands a higher test score than Stuyvesant or Brooklyn Tech) grad. Accepted into Harvard as a Jew, graduated Phi Beta Kappa in Economics in three years, came back to earn a JD, a Masters in Public policy and was ABD for a PHD in Public policy as well.

That's the Bullshit answer to make you guys happy.

Watch his clips on youtube for the real one.

Kylie said...

"Dennis must toss salad really, really well."

That's probably not the only item on the menu that he has mastered.

Anonymous said...

The Wikipedia mentions 9 kids from 4 women for Fidel Castro, though there may be more. Mick Jagger has 7 children by 4 women. It seems that Clint Eastwood has 8 children by 6 women. Kevin Costner has 7 kids with 3 women. Roger Daltrey has 8 kids with at least 4 women (the Wikipedia article is unclear on the exact number of mothers). Brian Jones of the Stones had 6 kids by 6 women before dying at the age of 27. And those are just some of the white alphas.




I'm unimpressed. My parents, married only to each other, had five children. It's news to me that my dad was an "alpha" though.

An "alpha male" with a "harem" should have at least twenty kids.

(Also note that a "harem" does not mean the same thing as having a series of wives - it means having all the wives at the same time. Pretending that words mean what you want them to mean instead of what they do mean is the mark of a leftist)

Anonymous said...

two families for a high-status man are not unusual at all


It's more unusual then two families for a low status man, which invalidates your entire theory.

We just recently discussed Charles Murray's new book "Coming Apart: The State of White America" on this site. You seem to have missed it. What he found was that the upper class whites still stick fairly closely to the old morality, while the lower class whites are mimicking the behavior of poor blacks. Poor whites are poor, in part, because they have sex, and children, with multiple different partners. Wealthier whites are wealthy, at least in part, becaue they are comparatively much more faithful to one another.


The good news (?) for you in all this is that even though you are a low status male, you can still have sex with a lot of different women. And if you can't, the problem is not your lack of "status".

Evil Sandmich said...

Since I moved into his district more than a decade ago, I wondered about his appeal as well until I came across this bit in the Cleveland Scene describing his early career:He accused them of being corrupt, lazy, and unsympathetic to the city's white working class — his largest sect of voters. If council was for tax abatements, Kucinich accused them of being in the pocket of business. If they wanted housing for the East Side's black poor, he castigated them for ignoring the West Side's ethnic whites.

Evil Sandmich said...

Since I moved into his district more than a decade ago, I wondered about his appeal as well until I came across this bit in the Cleveland Scene describing his early career:He accused them of being corrupt, lazy, and unsympathetic to the city's white working class — his largest sect of voters. If council was for tax abatements, Kucinich accused them of being in the pocket of business. If they wanted housing for the East Side's black poor, he castigated them for ignoring the West Side's ethnic whites.

Anonymous said...

All I know is that Elizabeth chopped off her beautiful red hair, and I am totally bummed. What was she thinking? Or did some daft style guru convince that a drastic haircut would make her look like a PROFESSIONAL? Bah. If so, he should be drawn and quartered. LOL

SFG said...

"She has the cool gaze & poised demeanor of a high class dominatrix. Kucinich's posterior likely resembles a plan of the Swiss railway system."

Ah, Republicans...always assuming the man is the sub... ;)

Anonymous said...

kucinich can play a vampire.

Anonymous said...

The notion that super-tall and super skinny women are the essence of feminine beauty is a downright peculiar one, since women are not naturally tall and skinny at all. They tend to be short and round.

My sense is that this idea is one created quite recently by the modern television and movie industry. Prior to that, when men wrote poems and songs about how attracted they were to their lovers, tallness and skinniness did not feature in the list of highly praised female attributes.

Actresses who are 5'8" (four inches above the female norm) are so common as be unexceptional. A five four four inch actress usually looks downright short, compared to the other people around her on screen. By contrast it's extremely rare to see male actors who are four inches above the male norm, which would make them about 6'2".

Dennis Dale said...

Why do I always think of the marquee poster for Tod Browning's Freaks when I see those two together?

Anonymous said...

I'm unimpressed. My parents, married only to each other, had five children. It's news to me that my dad was an "alpha" though.

5 is less than all those mentioned in the quote.

If your dad had those 5 children with more than one woman, he would have likely reduced the mating opportunities for other men, hence leading to greater centralization of male fertility.

An "alpha male" with a "harem" should have at least twenty kids.

You should learn math. I realize your innumerate mind can only make sense of big, round numbers, but you really need to understand that small differentials make large impacts over time.

Also note that a "harem" does not mean the same thing as having a series of wives - it means having all the wives at the same time.

My priest declares that all the women in the world are married to me.

Over the course of my life, I meet and have relationships with a series of different women, and take up many of their fertile years, which aren't available to other men as a result.

I had all these wives at the same time since my priest declared that all these women were already married to me.

Hans said...

"The notion that super-tall and super skinny women are the essence of feminine beauty is a downright peculiar one, since women are not naturally tall and skinny at all. They tend to be short and round."

Mrs. Kucinich is not super skinny (or masculine); I suspect your comment really has the queerification of the modeling industry in mind, but that doesn't have much to do with Elizabeth.

Height and figure vary by ethnicity and class. Those at the top are the tallest and most lithe.

Anonymous said...

5 is less than all those mentioned in the quote.


Five is one less than six, this is true.


If your dad had those 5 children with more than one woman, he would have likely reduced the mating opportunities for other men, hence leading to greater centralization of male fertility


Assuming that all those other women had sex with only one man, true. That's a big assumption though.


My priest declares that all the women in the world are married to me.


Your priest must really hate you.


Over the course of my life, I meet and have relationships with a series of different women, and take up many of their fertile years, which aren't available to other men as a result.


And other men do the same with other women, and other women do the same with other men. Welcome to the real world, junior.

Svigor said...

Something about that photo tells me Mrs. Kucinich is a very practical woman.

Anonymous said...

Mrs. Kucinich is not super skinny (or masculine); I suspect your comment really has the queerification of the modeling industry in mind, but that doesn't have much to do with Elizabeth



She could work as a model. She's six feet tall - eight inches above the female norm. I don't know her weight, but she's skinny for her height.

Height and figure vary by ethnicity and class. Those at the top are the tallest and most lithe.


Better not tell Queen Elizabeth that.

Anonymous said...

"Watch his clips on youtube for the real one."

I asked because my cousin knows the guy. Says he's every bit the a-hole he appears to be on one's tv screen.

Anonymous said...

"All I know is that Elizabeth chopped off her beautiful red hair, and I am totally bummed. What was she thinking? Or did some daft style guru convince that a drastic haircut would make her look like a PROFESSIONAL?"

Damn those gay stylists!

Anonymous said...

She's got 5 inches on him.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

""Alan Grayson was probably the smartest man in congress.""

Truth, "smartest" in what way?"

In the way of being smarter than "Truth" - a singularly unimpressive accomplishment.

AmericanGoy said...

The envy of the obese, failed at life 101st keyboard brigade is fantastic fun to read ;)

Want a sexy woman to be into you?

Go out and get one.

The way things work in the game of life, you can either be attractive, or you can be rich.

Of course, some of us are blessed with both attributes...

Anonymous said...

Prior to that, when men wrote poems and songs about how attracted they were to their lovers, tallness and skinniness did not feature in the list of highly praised female attributes.

Let me guess: You're female, right?

Shawn said...

Let's face it, we are all just jealous of Kucinich.

Hans said...

"Height and figure vary by ethnicity and class. Those at the top are the tallest and most lithe.


Better not tell Queen Elizabeth that."

Exceptions do not disprove the rule.

Try this exercise (based in central Florida), but amend it to the realities for where you live:

Go to the poor, established grocery store in your neighborhood and walk around noting how your height and girth compares to everyone else's.
Next, go the highest-end grocery store and do the same.

And if you really want to see the differences exaggerated, go to Neiman Marcus or Saks Fifth avenue.

Anonymous said...

It's more unusual then two families for a low status man, which invalidates your entire theory.

You're confusing baby mamas with wives, and you're confusing the matriarchal and matrilineal lower orders with the patriarchy and patrilineality of the upper classes. Just because the law no longer works to support and further the interests of patriarchy doesn't mean patriarchy has disappeared.

Anonymous said...

"Prior to that, when men wrote poems and songs about how attracted they were to their lovers, tallness and skinniness did not feature in the list of highly praised female attributes."

Let me guess: You're female, right?


I didn't make that first comment, but as an American male I've always been perplexed by our culture's obsession with tall, thin, small-breasted women. I prefer women who are medium-height to short and have a pleasing roundness and softness that includes sizable breasts.

Anonymous said...

The Wikipedia mentions 9 kids from 4 women for Fidel Castro, though there may be more. Mick Jagger has 7 children by 4 women. It seems that Clint Eastwood has 8 children by 6 women. Kevin Costner has 7 kids with 3 women. Roger Daltrey has 8 kids with at least 4 women (the Wikipedia article is unclear on the exact number of mothers). Brian Jones of the Stones had 6 kids by 6 women before dying at the age of 27.

Again, at the risk of beating a dead horse:


9 / 4 = 2.25 TFR
7 / 4 = 1.75 TFR
8 / 6 = 1.33 TFR
7 / 3 = 2.33 TFR
8 / 4 = 2.00 TFR
6 / 6 = 1.00 TFR

CUMULATIVE: 45 / 27 = 1.67 TFR


Now the numerators of those fractions are just wonderful for the particular Alphas in question, but, by and large, the final ratios are simply disastrous for society at large.


I'm unimpressed. My parents, married only to each other, had five children. It's news to me that my dad was an "alpha" though.

Actually, from the Roissy/Whiskey point of view, in classically liberal & monogamous Western Civilization, all men were "Alphas" - the absolute kings of their own little households.

It is only the very recent development* of neo-pagan female "hypergamy" and the return to de facto polygamy which has led to the resurgence of the darwinian "Alpha".





*A development spurred on in no small part by the dogged efforts of that determined band of Scots-Irish Presbyterians in the MacFrankfurt School.

Anonymous said...

"Better not tell Queen Elizabeth that."


Exceptions do not disprove the rule


You have not established any "rule". You made an unsubstantiated claim, that's all.



Go to the poor, established grocery store in your neighborhood and walk around noting how your height and girth compares to everyone else's.



All that this will establish is what we already know .. that "Hispanics" , or American aboriginals to give them a more accurate name, are shorter than Europeans. If I lived in a neighborhood with a lot of blacks, that same encounter with poor people would not be an encounter with short people.

Anonymous said...

It is only the very recent development* of neo-pagan female "hypergamy" and the return to de facto polygamy which has led to the resurgence of the darwinian "Alpha"




We don't have "alphas", we don't have "de factor polygamy", and we don't have "neo-pagan female hypergamy".

If you're having trouble getting laid you have my condolences. But your problems reside between your own ears and not in vast societal trends involving a handful of "alphas" banging their "neo-pagan female hypergamous harems".

You sound like a nut on your own blog, and your don't sound any better over here.

Anonymous said...

You're confusing baby mamas with wives


You're the one who said that "wives" is a meaningless concept and that all that matters is who a woman bears children for. Obviously Mick Jagger and company did not have all* their children just with wives.

*When I say "all" above I'm playing along with the fiction that 6, 7 or 8 children is a big number. But it's not, really. Historically speaking it was not unusual for a single woman to have as many as fifteen children. So having seven children by five women is not really monopolizing the reproductive abilities of several women for one man.

Anonymous said...

"Prior to that, when men wrote poems and songs about how attracted they were to their lovers, tallness and skinniness did not feature in the list of highly praised female attributes."


Let me guess: You're female, right?




Shakespeare's sonnets either were or were not written in such a way as to praise women for being tall and slender. The answer does not hinge on whether I am male, female, or even human.

Anonymous said...

You sound like a nut on your own blog, and your don't sound any better over here.

I don't have a blog; you must be confusing me with someone else.

If you're having trouble getting laid

Actually, I'm one of the guys who has exactly the opposite problem.

But, at the same time, I'm also one of the guys who actually gives a sh*t about the future of human civilization.

We don't have "alphas", we don't have "de factor polygamy", and we don't have "neo-pagan female hypergamy".

There are pockets of resistance to modernity, but the phenomena being documented by guys like Roissy/Heartiste & Whiskey are both very real and are expanding rapidly throughout society.

We here in the isolated pockets of resistance are doing everything we can to try to outlast modernity [and, who knows, with a little luck, maybe we'll be successful], but to try to pretend that modernity isn't extracting a terrible toll on our civilization is to be dangerously delusional.

Anonymous said...

Shakespeare's sonnets either were or were not written in such a way as to praise women for being tall and slender. The answer does not hinge on whether I am male, female, or even human.

I knew it.

Maya said...

"It is only the very recent development* of neo-pagan female "hypergamy" and the return to de facto polygamy which has led to the resurgence of the darwinian "Alpha"."

Please, don't pretend that you and Roissy use the terms "alpha" and "beta" in line with their biological definitions. Drop the Darwinian modifier, since, I bet, neither of you have actually studied Darwin in any meaningful way.

If you stayed awake in the 9th grade Biology class, you would know that beta males, usually, enjoyed several females of quality each, among most polygamous mammals, including monkeys and early humans.
There is one alpha male to each pack/tribe, and his prolonged dominance relies on the support and loyalty of the beta males. Alpha gets the first pick of females and has several more than any other male. Betas get the second pick, and, disaster or famine aside, each of them gets 2 or more females, on average. Alpha doesn't approach a female who is already claimed by one of his betas, and the betas, not only refrain from approaching the alpha's females, but they tear to shreds any other male who might show interest in any of the alpha's females. They put a lot less energy into helping each other protect their own females, and they are generally on their own for that. However, they guard the new females and pick which new males can stay and become betas, as a team. Basically, an alpha, the acknowledged best among the fit males, doesn't do much once he achieves his status while the betas, the other fit males, keep him in power and benefit from the status they have in his pack/tribe. Once the alpha dies or becomes disabled, one of the beta males takes his place. More females reach reproductive age than males. Then, a number of young males die in fights and from reckless behavior (yes, even adolescent male dogs act out a lot more and have a lot more energy than the adolescent female dogs). Out of those males who are left, about half gets to reproduce, and the rest are chased out. Once the tribe/pack gets too big, pieces of it break off, and a new alpha is established.

That's pretty different from yours and Roissy's portrayal of "betas", for example.

Anonymous said...

You're the one who said that "wives" is a meaningless concept and that all that matters is who a woman bears children for. Obviously Mick Jagger and company did not have all* their children just with wives.

Not the same anon. I don't think "wife" is a meaningless concept at all. It's tough to define right now, as is family, because self-definition is currently where it's at, and the question of whether a man voluntarily supports his multiple families is muddied by contemporary law.

However there is an obvious difference between a man who works under the table to avoid child support liability for his children with one woman while living with another and her children, and a man who maintains multiple decent establishments whose children all consider him their legitimate father and whom he recognizes.

Anonymous said...

For those arguing the alpha/beta line, here is a really good post from Vox Day in which he correctly breaks down males into more than just alpha/beta. The simple a/b breakdown just assumes alphas get women and betas don't. But Vox's post shows a more realistic breakdown into more categories that fit with what we observe in society. It's a short, interesting read.

Anonymous said...

The woman's a vegan. Choosing nutrient deficiency hardly seems a mark of cleverness. The dietary choice is also making her age faster.

Anonymous said...

Vegan diets are problematic for children, people who are still going through puberty, poor people, people with histories of eating disorders, and childbearing women. A vegan diet is not going to cause serious health consequences in a Western non-childbearing woman who adopted the diet well after she reached her full growth and has an entire lifetime's worth of nutrient stores to draw from.

Anyway, most public vegans are cheating. ALL public vegans with children are cheating.

Anonymous said...

Anyway, most public vegans are cheating. ALL public vegans with children are cheating.

Can you elaborate on this?

Anonymous said...

Elaborate on what? A vegan diet is insufficient for a growing child. If a child has good teeth, is gaining weight and getting taller and meeting developmental milestones then he's getting egg yolks or fish or maybe even MEAT.