April 21, 2012

The rules don't apply in NYC

Much of the fury directed by the national press at George Zimmerman has been over the allegation that he "profiled" Trayvon Martin. How dare there be some backward corner of the Confederacy where people are more suspicious of blacks than of everybody else!

And, yet, like IQ tests for 4-year olds, Things Are Different in New York City. For example, NYC elected a black mayor ... once, and ever since the Democrats have gone 0 for 5 in mayoral elections there.

Crime is hugely down in New York City, in sizable part because the NYPD targets NAMs for stop-and-frisks. Profiling? Well, of course. But, it's not really a big issue because, well, because it's made life in New York City a lot better for everybody who is anybody.

Michael Powell writes in the NYT:
In that year [2002], the police stopped and questioned 97,296 New Yorkers; 82 percent of them walked away without so much as a ticket. Nine years later, in 2011, his officers stopped 685,724 New Yorkers; 88 percent of them were also completely innocent. A vast majority were black or Latino men. … 
Less than 2 percent of police stops led to the recovery of a weapon. ...

If you do the math, that's about 10,000 guns per year being taken off of people who don't have permits, which is ... a lot. But, still, if those Ku Klux Klanners in Sanford, Florida were doing it, it would be different.
I tried this around my dining room table this weekend. I am white and my sons — Aidan, 19, and Nick, 24 — travel to many corners of a city that they love. Has a cop, I asked, ever stopped you? 
Both shook their heads no. 
On Monday morning, I put that question to eight black male students who attend the Borough of Manhattan Community College. Cumulatively, they said they had been stopped 92 times. They spoke with surprisingly little rancor. 
But they wonder at the casual humiliations. The police stopped Mario Brown, who dreams of a career in theater arts, and forced him to take off his sneakers in the subway. (“It’s kind of ridiculous; I don’t see any Caucasian kids doing this.”) They forced Jamel Gordon-Mayfield, 18, the son of a police detective and a doctor, out of his parents’ S.U.V. one afternoon and demanded he take a Breathalyzer. (He passed.) Then they searched him and the car. 
Jasheem Smiley, 19, sweet and soft-spoken with a neat goatee, lives in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, with his uncle. Two months ago, he says, a van drove up on the sidewalk and a man jumped out. “I’m a cop!” the man yelled. “Get down on the sidewalk!” Mr. Smiley complied but feared he was being robbed and asked to see a badge. The officer, he said, responded by putting his shoe to his face and pressing it to the pavement.

Has the American-born black male population of New York City been dropping for years, in part because of police harassment?

Sure. But, it's different because this is New York we're talking about, not some racist backwater.

74 comments:

Svigor said...

Maybe he should've asked a couple of White shitkickers if they'd been stopped and frisked. They've got to have some in NYC.

Oh, wait, his hidden White privilege and biases prevented that.

Anonymous said...

New York exceptionalism is nothing new to those of us who have to deal with New Yorkers.

OTOH, liberals always have had two sets of rules. Remember the Boston bussing meltdowns after the North was so busy going down South to help commit voter fraud er "help blacks register to vote"?

Anonymous said...

Near as I can tell, blacks are fleeing New York as dominicans dominate on the west side, and mexicans on the east side, push blacks out.

After the hispanics "settle" the areas, adventurous white yuppies start showing up into THOSE areas.

Since hispanics still in those areas dominate the drug trade, they won't allow blacks to participate in any meaningful way. Hispanics are also artful in stacking three families in a two-bedroom rent-controlled apartment to deal with the rent. Blacks don't tend to stack up family members that well, so they're not competitive in that game.

So, unless you're a black yuppy, the isle of Manhattan is shrinking exponentially.

Might as well live the life in Chicago or Detroit, where poor blacks can still dominate certain areas that hispanics and whites aren't interested in.

Anonymous said...

NYPD seems to have become much NAM-ier over the years. I'd say it's less than half white now.

Non-New Yorkers will not know the reason why stop-and-frisks have suddenly attracted the media's attention. Ray Kelly, the police commissioner, is leading in the polls to replace Bloomberg. It's unclear if he wants the job. If he runs, it will be on the Republican line. I would expect him to be more like Giuliani than like Bloomberg as mayor. The local media hated Giuliani very, very much. They're looking for stuff that could put Kelly in a negative light.

Dahinda said...

I am white and back when I was a teenager, the cops would always stop my friends and I, frisk us, and search our car (if we were in one). It happened a lot. I grew up outside Chicago and the cops probably thought that we were up to no good or were underage drinking.

TGGP said...

"Less than 2 percent of police stops led to the recovery of a weapon"
"If you do the math, that's about 10,000 guns per year"
Note he said "weapon", not "gun" or even "firearm".

I'm white and was stopped some months back by Chicago cops. But they had reasonable cause for it. I acted drunk (which I was) so I wouldn't have to be cooperative, but not hostile. They seemed annoyed but eventually let me continue home.

Brazilian said...

The Crown Heights riot showed the anti-semitism of the Black community, this has sealed their faith in NY. Dinkins was the first and probably the last Black Mayor of NYC.

So Giuliani came into the scene and NY avoided the same faith of Philadelphia, Detroit, Cleveland and other big cities by the way of 'Zero Tolerance' policy towards crime.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Powell concedes no relationship between the stops and the drop in crime.

Anonymous said...

"If Zimmerman had had a gun, he'd be alive today."

Anonymous said...

Its also why New Yorker's love immigration - legal or otherwise - the blacks are getting ethnically cleansed and replaced by Asians and Hispanics. Too bad it sucks for the rest of the USA.

But its why NYC is a better place. Brutal but true.

Steve Sailer said...

Note he said "weapon", not "gun" or even "firearm".

What are the cops counting? Swiss army knives? Keys?

Anonymous said...

OTOH, liberals always have had two sets of rules. Remember the Boston bussing meltdowns after the North was so busy going down South to help commit voter fraud er "help blacks register to vote"?

Why is it so difficult for southerners to grasp that not all white northerners are exactly alike? The blue-collar whites who fought against busing were not the same group as the (disproportionately Scots-Irish) white elites who were so concerned with helping southern blacks.

Anonymous said...

My friend and I - lily white caucasian kids of the nicest sort - were stopped when we were 16 driving a toyota camry, which the cops said was a commonly stolen car. They let us go after a quick registration check, but still.

As an adult, I was selected and waved over at a checkpoint. I had a suspended drivers license and was put in a police van with about 4 other guys - all white and one Korean, all in for a suspended license. Back at the preceint, the cell starts filling up with more guys with suspended licenses caught in other parts of town - all nice, middle class whites.

Were we the victims of profiling? Did the city just want some cash from people who could pay? I noticed them waving lots of NAMS through, and did not meet a single NAM in the cell who was in for a suspended license.

I suppose racial profiling could be used for all sorts of purposes.

BTW, NYC cops rarely stick to any official rules. They are a pretty easy going and decent bunch, but they do what they want. I was shocked at the threats, bullying and generally abusive atmosphere (from the cops) at downtown booking where they had the general criminal population. Probably violated every single rule in the book, but it was police turf and they did what they wanted.

formerly no name said...

Its also why New Yorker's love immigration - legal or otherwise - the blacks are getting ethnically cleansed and replaced by Asians and Hispanics. Too bad it sucks for the rest of the USA.

But its why NYC is a better place. Brutal but true.


It's also obviously why Mayor Daley II of Chicago was such an embarrassingly enthusiastic supporter of illegal (mostly Mexican, of course) immigration.

Anonymous said...

I really hate New Yorkers, and I say that as someone who lived there for many years.

Anonymous said...

I am a frequent isteve reader who has lived in New York City almost all my life. I currently live a few miles outside of the city. The "stop and frisk" policy is big news in the local New York City press. The NY Daily News covers it on a regular basis, with both pro and anti editorials. It is considered a very controversial issue these days. I think the complacency caused by violent crime being near historic lows is helping to make this more controversial than it deserves to be. The ACLU is making a lot of noise over this like they always do.

Like most New Yorkers, I have no problem with profiling, racial or otherwise, even though I believe I have been profiled and questioned several times over the past 10 years. My problem though is with cops being over-zealous and overly-suspicious of innocent people(like me). And that some cops are just plain stupid. Their time would be better spent hunting down real criminals than harassing me.

I have been stopped, frisked, questioned and even accused of committing some serious crimes by over-zealous NYPD cops(all of them white) over the years. Now I am as white as they come. I don't know this for a fact, but I think they profile young white men with beards and/or long hair. This may be why they claim I look "suspicious". I have no record whatsoever, I never carry firearms legal or have anything to do with drugs. The cops who harass me often seem disappointed with how clean my record is. I may look somewhat "bohemian", but I don't think I look sinister or thuggish.

Here's a thought! I imagine they may be sick of dealing with almost nothing but black and mixed race hispanic low-lives day in, day out. So even some of the cops are hoping to nab the next "great white defendant". Perhaps this is an example of "reverse profiling" - stop and frisk people who do not fit any profile(like harassing old ladies at airports as if they are potential terrorists), just so you don't get accused of "profiling". So a few innocent whites get harassed as a result of this(indeed, statistics reveal that relative to the amount of crime they commit, blacks are under-frisked in NYC).

As far as comparing NYC with Florida, we do have a case that is vaguely similar, but hasn't sparked national outrage - the recent shooting of a black, unarmed teen in the Bronx by a white cop - http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02-07/news/31035715_1_fatal-shooting-diallo-case-police-officers

Information on this case comes out very slowly, if at all. The protests over this are relatively small and local. Maybe it would be bigger news if it happened outside NY. The area this shooting happened in is plagued by drugs and gang violence. In other words, it has a large poor black population. I really have no strong opinion on this case since it's hard to get any facts about it, and then there's always media distortion.

Ed said...

"For example, NYC elected a black mayor ... once, and ever since the Democrats have gone 0 for 5 in mayoral elections there."

I'll only comment on the politics aspect of this, since I am a politics geek. On the other stuff, I was born in New York and have lived here for over forty years and I don't understand this place. But I appreciate the attempts of a Chicago -LA based blogger to explain it to me.

Its true that New York voted only voted in an African American as Mayor only once, but you have to understand that African American politicians here tend to be Democrats and the Democrats are at an inherent disadvantage in elections for Mayor. To get elected Mayor in New York, you have to run as a Republican. Since 1933, politicians on running mainly on the Republican line have one 9 out of the 18 Mayorial elections since that date. That's only 50%, but of the other nine cases, in one case the winning candidate had both the Democratic and Republican lines, and in one case the winning candidate ran on a minor party line. So that is a 9-7 record for the Republicans in Mayorial elections, going back almost eighty years, and two of the Democratic victories, excluding the time the Republicans have nominated him too, was for a guy that usually endorses Republicans in other contests.

So if you want to be Mayor in New York, you run as a Republican, though I understand people in the rest of the country will be confused since this is one of those places where the national party labels don't match up with the local party labels. People who are paid to comment on politics here are confused (or dishonest).

Now if you look at African-American candidates, its not bad. Any serious African American candidate is a Democrat, and the county machines tend to avoid nominating African Americans for Mayor. They have run for Mayor on the Democratic line exactly three times, winning once by a narrow margin and losing twice by a narrow margin, in one case where the guy was outspent by something like a gazillion dollars. I think Steve's point was really about Chicago or LA, but as regard to NY I don't think the data really supports what he is trying to claim.

Anonymous said...

In the unlikely event I were elected President, at the end of my first term Manhattan would be fit only for artsy fartsy types and people with a predilection for tall buildings. I'd systematically drive the financial sector out and make the UN WANT to move to a neutral country. I'd wreck its financial base and devalue its real estate.

Not out of spite, but because the survival of the country depends on breaking the back and the spirit of New Yorkism.

9/11 would have been the perfect pretext to do it, but a good sunspot cycle or a volcanic eruption or any of many events would work.

I wouldn't get re-elected, but that's a price I'd pay.

Anonymous said...

Blacks are leaving New York City because they are being squeezed out of the economy by Hispanics and Asians.

Anonymous said...

Before I ever worked there, I remember NYC as Sodom and Gomorrah. Every transit hub was inhabited by homeless of both kinds, drug addicted and certifiably insane. It was unthinkable to use a bathroom in Penn Station, Grand Central or the Port Authority Bus Terminal. I remember there was a child prostitution ring discovered operating out of a restaurant in the Port Authority. Times Square was a stretch of Porn, Peeps and Karate movies. At one time, the corner of 42nd and 8th had the highest murder rate of any single location in the United States. On Long Island at that time, DWI was perhaps the most common cause for arrest - my friend asked a midtown cop how many DWI busts they made that year, he answered,"two.". Once on a weekday, in broad daylight, i was walking behind two construction workers while they shared a joint.

Giuliani, neocon personified, really changed the place. I know it has been said that New York's crime rate really didn't decrease more than the national average, but the little microcosm of Times Square must have changed more than any same sized area in the nation.

I have to stop reminiscing, or I might start thinking the neocon agenda isn't so bad after all.

Anonymous said...

As a conservative, I don't like random stop-and-frisk tactics, even if they do keep crime down and disproportionately affect people of another race.

Anonymous said...

No doubt most people in NY, including a big chunk of the black population, follow the general point of what John Derbyshire was saying a fews weeks back.

Good idea too. It works. Poor John got whumped for saying it though.

He was pretty much the definition of a scapegoat.

On the plus side, as someone who last went to NY in the mid 80's, taking the train from Connecticut in through the bombed out Bronx (no exaggeration btw, look it up), I'm surprised NY cleaned itself up like it did. It certainly got low enough though.

Off topic - internet porn probably did alot to clean up America's inner cities. I recall peep show era Times Square. Now - all Disney.

Steve Sailer said...

" internet porn probably did alot to clean up America's inner cities. I recall peep show era Times Square. Now - all Disney."

There's a new idea. Makes some sense, too.

Anonymous said...

I think a kid who "dreams of a career in theater arts" *should* be given a dose of real life, maybe even an overnight in jail.

Shawn said...

Blacks get arrested more than Whites in large part because they don't know how to act around cops. Staying silent, not acting aggressive, etc.--it seems to be that non-NAMs are much more in the know about this.

Anonymous said...

Steve Sailer said...
" internet porn probably did alot to clean up America's inner cities. I recall peep show era Times Square. Now - all Disney."

There's a new idea. Makes some sense, too."

Makes perfect sense as a business model, but remember "posh, upscale" sports oriented strip clubs(Scores) were just beginning to become the rage at that time, when video porn stars were becoming as famous as movie stars (Amber Lynn, Ginger Lynn). In retrospect, the decline was inevitable, but certainly not at that time. Giuliani did in one feel swoop what might have taken decades to wither. Rudy made strip clubs as welcome as child molesters after Meghan's law. They were banished to 10th Ave.-like areas. I'm sure they would have preferred to be lined up like restaurants or casinos, profiting from each other's overflow.

Anonymous said...

Joel Kotkin: The Great California Exodus

Not fishtown, not belmont. Here comes tacotown.

Mexers leave Mexico and whites leave Ca.

Anonymous said...

People of color are such saints! For example, one of them is "sweet and soft-spoken with a neat goatee" and another "dreams of a career in theater arts".

What the New York Times style book instructs reporters to write about NAM's (er, sorry - innocent lambs) must be one hell of a funny read.

-THRIPSHAW

Anonymous said...

"Blacks get arrested more than Whites in large part because they don't know how to act around cops. Staying silent, not acting aggressive, etc.--it seems to be that non-NAMs are much more in the know about this."

It's more a question of impulse-control than of awareness of any info. Also, blacks, women included, are in love with dominance. I haven't seen very much evidence of complicated emotions among them. The feeling of dominance is very simple.

In regards to the Trayvon case:

As a youth I had a job putting ad flyers on cars' windshields for a couple of summers. I remember at least two times when I was told by non-uniformed authority figures who might easily have been playing the same role as George Zimmerman to move on, quit hanging around, do that stuff elsewhere, etc. So I moved on. Even the idea of talking back would have seemed bizarre to me.

Anonymous said...

Rudy started the modern trend of NYC exceptionalism. Michael Bloomberg followed suit. It must really irk the rest of the country. My suggestion: declare yourselves exceptional too!!

Anonymous said...

NYC acted exceptionally also in the way that New Yorkers were able to openly oppose the mosque at Ground Zero.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think a kid who "dreams of a career in theater arts" *should* be given a dose of real life, maybe even an overnight in jail."

For "kid who dreams of a career in theater arts" read "gay". He probably isn't a threat to anyone. Sounds like the cops in New York are a bunch of jerks. I know that blacks commit crimes at a much higher rate than whites. That doesn't mean that cops should be empowered to stop and harass people just because they are black. The law is supposed to be neutral; I think it should be so. Individual citizens are not held to those standards - we are (or should be) allowed to profile as much as we want to in our dealings with other people.

as said...

I've lived in the Upper West Side in Harlem for the past several months. I see a lot of cops around. They're often pretty cute, and they look clean cut. Almost all the ones I've seen are white though there are some black ones as well.

On the other hand, a lot of the blacks on the street are extremely scruffy looking.

Steve Sailer said...

Another example is the Vulcan Society disparate impact discrimination case against the Fire Department of New York for using a hiring exam made up by the city department that makes up exams. Sure, what NYC did in making up their own fire department test was efficient and sensible, but every other city in the country knows You Can't Do That. You have to hire a consulting firm and spend a fortune on it. This is a case where eventually, the Rules did apply to NYC, but a place like Chicago learned that lesson about fire hiring many years before.

Truth said...

"Like most New Yorkers, I have no problem with profiling, racial or otherwise, even though I believe I have been profiled and questioned several times over the past 10 years. My problem though is with cops being over-zealous and overly-suspicious of innocent people(like me)."

And they're supposed to know you are innocent, how?

Anonymous said...

This is interesting. I had not been aware that New York City seeks this preferential treatment until this series of posts.

It reminds me a little bit of Israel and its demands to be exempt from rules that would apply to other peoples. For example, it wants to possess nuclear weapons but deny them to other states. It runs a segregated school system and a racist immigration policy but cries bloody murder whenever other peoples do the same. Etc., etc.

I wonder if there are any other commonalities between the two places.

pat said...

The whole incident and controversy around the Martin-Zimmerman incident is the direct result of rising black teen crime.

The black populations rises. Black crime rises. Whites, Asians and Hispanics begin to defend themselves and then bad stuff happens.

In all of the media output on this I have yet to hear a black leader ask black teens in the area to stop committing burglaries lest something like this happens. Indeed Sharpton seems to arguing for the right of black predators to be free to commit crime without their victims fighting back.

I'm sure that that is unfair but the impression remains.

It really doesn't matter if Martin was a gang connected thug or a sweet innocent child. None of this would have happened except that black teens in the area were breaking into houses.

If Zimmerman had replied to the 911 dispatcher, "She seems to be an elderly Chinese woman". Would any of this have happened? Would Zimmerman even be out there on patrol? Black teens are dangerous. We need Obama or Sharpton or someone to plead with the local black teen population to stop the rapes, murders and robberies.

Blacks need to take responsibility for their bad behavior. Here in Oakland we too have neigborhood watches, but we are not very worried about intruders from our local Chinatown.

Anonymous said...

Steve read fellow v-dare columnist nicholas styx - he has the real scoop on crime stats - they are under-reported.

Though I definately see a change in the section 8 housing many more Orientals- and i have heard some black activist say they are being edged out.

I grew up in queens and brooklyn in the 70s and i get a sense that Styx went through similar experiences.

rob said...

Jasheem Smiley, 19, sweet and soft-spoken with a neat goatee, lives in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, with his uncle. Two months ago, he says, a van drove up on the sidewalk and a man jumped out. “I’m a cop!” the man yelled. “Get down on the sidewalk!” Mr. Smiley complied but feared he was being robbed and asked to see a badge. The officer, he said, responded by putting his shoe to his face and pressing it to the pavement.

A "man" jumped out, and dude thought he was being mugged? The cop was black. If a white man had jumped out, the New Yorker would have said that. BonB violence isn't much of an issue for me.

Anonymous said...

internet porn probably did alot to clean up America's inner cities. I recall peep show era Times Square
internet porn is actually making pornography addiction and useage worse- pornography is one of the most damaging vices a society can have.

Here's a scots irish professor with an essay on how porn was 'liberating'
http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38

"’ Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream


but as many know it's always gone hand in hand with decaying societies.

Rev. Right said...

Perhaps this is an example of "reverse profiling" - stop and frisk people who do not fit any profile(like harassing old ladies at airports as if they are potential terrorists), just so you don't get accused of "profiling".

I am sure these kind of metrics are kept, and that there is pressure to keep that black/white ratio from getting too high, although it appears they are getting away with a pretty high ratio now.

This parallels the national educational system goal of reducing the "Discipline Gap", which certainly results in more white kids receiving suspensions/detentions to get that ratio down.

slumber_j said...

Another area of exceptionalism: in light of recent rulings by the Supreme Court, NYC's gun laws would seem to be plainly unconstitutional. I don't expect that to change any time soon, though.

Anonymous said...

New York isn't really much different than anywhere else, it's a matter of class, not geography (economic class, that is - there's nothing classy about our elites). This is the same deal pretty much everywhere - join the Liberal establishment in destroying the politically dangerous white middle class and below and we'll let you live a largely segregated SWPL lifestyle, exempt you from the assault we are waging on THEM, all you have to do is mouth a few trite slogans. I mean you don't really think any of them anywhere actually believe in the hogwash of diversity, particularly when it comes to blacks, do you? THE DEAL is extended to wealthy upper middle class and above conservatives, too, as we've just seen in the lamentable Derbyshire episode. He didn't mouth the appropriate shibboleths. You notice that neither side brought up to what degree the other actually lives by the rules laid down by Derbyshire. They didn't debate the substance at all, only the airing of it. The only thing that makes New York different is density, the wealthy in typical American suburban cities have physical distance and sometimes walls between themselves and black and brown predators.

Anonymous said...

Truth said...

"Like most New Yorkers, I have no problem with profiling, racial or otherwise, even though I believe I have been profiled and questioned several times over the past 10 years. My problem though is with cops being over-zealous and overly-suspicious of innocent people(like me)."

And they're supposed to know you are innocent, how?


Statistics!

We have very clear statistics about which groups are more likely to commit crimes ...

It's the same technique we use in engineering. We concentrate on the problem areas.

Anonymous said...

What I find most interesting is that Michael Powell's 24 year old son is still sitting at his dining table. He could just be visiting at the weekend, but still...it's getting harder and harder to get rid of them.

Anonymous said...

Because the power of your post relied on anecdote I'll unashamedly add my own that plenty of white New Yorkers of my acquaintance (at least a couple of whom are Jewish) have been stopped and frisked in the city. In fact looking hipsterish or in any other way likely to boost the racial stats for people caught carrying pot or something else illegal is pretty dangerous whilst being white in new york. By contrast, acting black in black neighborhoods is about as safe as can be. The popo *need* to catch blacks acting black in non-black hoods and also need (for statistical reasons) to apprehend as many whites as possible.

map said...

This is nothing new.

The most strident liberals are those who do not apply it to themselves.

I always say: diversity starts at home.

Anonymous said...

"Sure. But, it's different because this is New York we're talking about, not some racist backwater."

Jim Crow had as one of its side effects the effect of pushing a lot of blacks north, and this is the converse to push them all down south. Unfortunately for the anti-racists there will be unintended consequences involved in pushing blacks out of swing states.

David said...

Profiling for me, but not for thee. Thee should drop dead.

Anonymous said...

I grew up outside Chicago and the cops probably thought that we were up to no good or were underage drinking.

Well were they right?

Because you've just described almost 100% of the kids that I knew in high school & college.

Anonymous said...

It reminds me a little bit of Israel... I wonder if there are any other commonalities between the two places.

Uhh, in both places, pretty much everybody can trace their ancestry to the general vicinity of Belfast, Newtownabbey, or Londonderry?!?

Or is that just too obvious of a commonality?

Anonymous said...

From Unamusementpark:

"Incidentally, while blacks account for 66.0% of violent crime suspects, they are subject to only 54.5% of the NYPD’s “Stop Question and Frisk” activity (17% less than expected). Whites account for only 5.7% of violent crime suspects, but are subject to 9.3% of these stops (63% more than expected). So much for racial profiling!"

http://unamusementpark.com/2011/10/is-racial-diversity-ruining-occupy-wall-street/

Peter said...

Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream


but as many know it's always gone hand in hand with decaying societies.

Or something else in hand.

Anonymous said...

"And they're supposed to know you are innocent, how?"

So you´re guilty until proven innocent?

What happened to Americans that caused them to desire, and enjoy living in a police state?

jody said...

NYPD street officers are often instructed to find and collect knives. NYPD has very particular rules about what kind of knives you are allowed to carry, so individual precincts will from time to time be under orders to find as many knives as possible that week and take them off people. this is no different than state highway patrols being under quotas to stop and ticket X number of speeders during some time period because the department needs the revenue from fines

otherwise innocent euro american men, blue collar types anyway, who sometimes carry knives for work, bear the brunt of this "stop, frisk, collect weapon" tactic. i'm not saying it's some big important injustice, it's not, but it's annoying, and i've definitely seen people on non-political, non-HBD boards talking about how NYPD stopped them in the subway and confiscated their work knives.

it's very, very difficult to legally carry concealed handguns in NYC so i doubt the police actually stop that many people who have a handgun on them and are actually licensed to carry.

jody said...

my brother has been profiled and stopped by the pittsburgh police twice. one time, with guns drawn, they stopped him and 3 of his friends in their car and had them get out and get searched. it turned out the police were looking for guys who matched their description. so maybe that's technically only 1 profiling stop and detainment. the other time they just stopped him randomly on the street and searched him for drugs down by university of pittsburgh.

the truth is, that my brother was a major drug user for 10 years, and regularly had drugs in his apartments. it's a miracle he was never killed, as a few of the people he associated with ended up dead, including a jamaican cocaine dealer.

the pittsburgh police definitely knew what they were doing, and were looking for the right kinds of people. and, i imagine, the police forces of most large cities are doing the same. they do this every day, for years. they know what they're looking for and they're good at finding it.

jody said...

the first time i went to mexico, i was stopped by the army, who correctly profiled me. tall american looking man driving a new, well maintained car with US plates, miles outside the nearest tourist areas, late at night. it could be a drug run.

they stopped me, tapped on the glass with the muzzle of an M-16, and had me roll down the window. they started talking to my LA born, LA raised mexican girlfriend in spanish, of which she knows all of 5 words, so when they got a blank stare from her they looked at me and started asking me something in spanish, which i knew all of 10 words, so when i said no habla, the leader switched into good english and told me to get out, we're searching your car.

we got out, and that's when i realized we were surrounded by 4 or 5 guys with M-16s. i was slightly nervous about having 4 or 5 army regulars with a 10th grade education all carrying rifles around me, aimed mostly towards the ground although vaguely pointed in my direction.

but they were very professional, quickly searched my car and trunk, said i was ok to go, then let us leave.

jody said...

"Off topic - internet porn probably did alot to clean up America's inner cities."

"There's a new idea. Makes some sense, too."

i've been espousing this view on isteve for years.

Anonymous said...

What happened to Americans that caused them to desire, and enjoy living in a police state?


violent crime?

Truth said...

"Statistics!

We have very clear statistics about which groups are more likely to commit crimes"

Men commit most crimes, you're a man, right?

Truth said...

"So you´re guilty until proven innocent?

What happened to Americans that caused them to desire, and enjoy living in a police state?"

I have no desire to live in a police state, but I do have a desire to live in a state free of double standards. The original poster wrote the below:


"Like most New Yorkers, I have no problem with profiling, racial or otherwise,"

"My problem though is with cops being over-zealous and overly-suspicious of innocent people(like me)."

"And that some cops are just plain stupid. Their time would be better spent hunting down real criminals than harassing me."



"I don't know this for a fact, but I think they profile young white ming to do with drugs. Ten with beards and/or long hair."

So what this gentleman is saying is, "I think broken-windows policing is wonderful - until it becomes an inconvenience to me"

Sorry, Sport, it doesn't work that way.

ATBOTL said...

Special rules for special people.

Anonymous said...

Men who would be kings.

Anonymous said...

James Cameron Confirms 'Battle Angel' Still In the Works, But 'Avatar' Is Priority

Battle Angel is one of the better anime works(from the 80s)

Silver said...

Sorry, Sport, it doesn't work that way.

For once, Truth, I can say I agree with you unreservedly. (I'm not being sarcastic, either, in case you're thinking that.)

What if the police were to continue stop-and-frisk but paid $10 to the 'suspect' (or whatever) each time the search failed to turn up anything? 685,000 searches adds up to less than $1 per search per New Yorker.

Anonymous said...

How to Make a Hollywood Hit
Charting the new globe-trotting science of moviemaking

Anonymous said...

New York Times staffers, like suffering proles all over the world, belong to a labor union, and over the years the union has negotiated a very comfy defined benefit retirement plan. The staffers love the plan.
But economic reality is intruding. Times management, perhaps reading the coverage in its own pages about the companies and cities going bankrupt due to unsustainable union-bargained pension systems, wants to make a change. It wants to offer a defined contribution plan, instead. Workers and the company pay into a 401(k) plan, workers invest it, and when they retire, that is the amount they have towards their income.

Dahinda said...

"I grew up outside Chicago and the cops probably thought that we were up to no good or were underage drinking.

Well were they right?

Because you've just described almost 100% of the kids that I knew in high school & college."

Many times they were right! I never said that the cops weren't doing their jobs!

Anonymous said...

why sark really wants to win.

David said...

>What I find most interesting is that Michael Powell's 24 year old son is still sitting at his dining table. He could just be visiting at the weekend, but still...it's getting harder and harder to get rid of them.<

The best way is to abort them.

Just as the best way to deal with you in a few years is to dump you in assisted living, where your life savings will be drained in no time flat.

At all costs, whites must avoid being like this.

Svigor said...

i've been espousing this view on isteve for years.

Yeah, I kinda got a blip on the "Steve's been replaced"-o-meter with that one. Definitely been said here several times.

What if the police were to continue stop-and-frisk but paid $10 to the 'suspect' (or whatever) each time the search failed to turn up anything? 685,000 searches adds up to less than $1 per search per New Yorker.

Sounds like a great way to incentivize false positives.

Truth said...

"For once, Truth, I can say I agree with you unreservedly."

Great minds think alike.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @7:25pm

"Why is it so difficult for southerners to grasp that not all white northerners are exactly alike? The blue-collar whites who fought against busing were not the same group as the (disproportionately Scots-Irish) white elites who were so concerned with helping southern blacks."

We fully grasp that you're not all alike. But it wasn't the Scots-Irish pushed for the Civil War nor for Reconstruction. Many blue-collar whites in the North (Irish, etc) are descendants of Union soldiers. You reap what you sow. Enjoy your harvest.

Silver said...

Sounds like a great way to incentivize false positives.

As in what, young blacks running from police on sight just to collect the $10? But then the cops wouldn't be stopping them without any obvious cause.

The plan is meant to address cops stopping people, however necessary it is, who really are "doing nothing."