April 22, 2012

Talk Left on Zimmerman bail hearing

For addicts, here's an intelligent legal analysis of the Zimmerman bail hearing on the Talk Left website, plus some above-average comments.

Meanwhile, Your Lying Eyes points out that the prosecution's strong suit is that the police apparently didn't interview the girl on the phone with Trayvon before Lawyer Crump got to her, so in a trial her testimony will be well coached, with little in the way of a pre-Crump record of statements to contradict the talking points Crump wants her to emphasize. For all the media fantasizing about "sloppy police work," that might be the cops' biggest failing, which could well  redound to the detriment of Zimmerman.

As I've mentioned several times before, it's hardly impossible that Dee Dee heard Martin refer to the unknown man using a racist or homophobic slur, and that, therefore, by current law, the physical encounter may have begun as a hate crime on the part of Martin. If so, Lawyer Crump, I would imagine, would have made sure to have had a talk or two with Dee Dee about how not to mention any of that under oath.

Some sci-fi questions on my part: How closely would cell phone records be able to determine the whereabouts of Zimmerman and Martin in the minutes leading up to the shooting? Cell phone systems keep track of which cell a phone is in, so would that be precise enough to evaluate the "stalk" versus "double-back" narratives? What about GPS options on phones?

How do we know the National Security Administration doesn't have a recording of the Trayvon-Dee Dee phone calls? Back in the 1990s, I used to occasionally read of French government and corporate officials complaining that the "Anglo-Saxons" were listening in on their calls as part of "Echelon." Being young and naive, I dismissed such allegations, but, evidently, I was wrong. How do we know the NSA doesn't have a record of most cell phone conversations? I've never heard that they do, but nobody seems terribly interested in the question.

88 comments:

Anonymous said...

Marine Le Pen got 20% of the votes in the French Presidential Election.

It had a turnout of more than 80%, puts America to shame.

sideways said...

Cell phone triangulation locations are accurate to 50 or 100 feet or so, but we're only dealing with Martin traveling a couple of hundred feet, so that doesn't sound useful.

Georgia Resident said...

Zimmerman was WAY too trusting of the cops. From what I understand, they were in the tank for charging him, until the state prosecutors who originally looked into the case said they didn't have probable cause.

pat said...

Tom Maguire says he doesn't approve of citizen's watch groups. Well la-dee-dah! How sensitive of him.

I live in the Oakland hills. The neighborhood is almost all white and moderately affluent. Lately there have been groups of black teens coming up the hill from the crime ridden flat lands to break into houses and steal what ever they can.

This is particularly troubling because Oakland suspended their 911 police responses because of budget problems. They say they will still respond to real emergencies like home invasions - but who knows?

This isn't an urban legend. The house across the street was broken into.My neighbor told me the story. However the real spate of break ins is a little further down the hill.

These black kids observe the neighborhoods first and try to locate the houses that are empty during the day. If they make a mistake and someone is home there could be a real nasty incident. Most people I suspect don't care all that much if their TV and computer are taken, but they care a lot about a live confrontation.

I have offered some of the ladies in the neighborhood to shoot the bad guys if they like. But they have assured me that they are all packing heat. They also have a citizen's watch group that looks for intruders.

Do I like this situation? Not much. But what does Mr. Maguire expect, no police and organized burglar gangs.

You might say that the Martin-Zimmerman case resonates with me.

Joe said...

Even if the government has an Echelon recording of the cell phone communications, there's no way they'd reveal the existence of such a program for a case like this.

Steve Sailer said...

But it's Obama's hypothetical son we're talking about! Surely that's more important than keeping secret that the victors in WWII are still spying on everybody?

Anonymous said...

You should be aware that there seems to be evidence that the so-called calls from DeeDee were at the wrong time (some chump forgot about the different between PST/PDT and EST/EDT.)

Is it possible that it was Trayvon's ghost that was talking to DeeDee?

Some Oakland guy said...

I have offered some of the ladies in the neighborhood to shoot the bad guys if they like. But they have assured me that they are all packing heat.

pat, can you say anything about the legality of their possession of pistols? As a fellow Californian who would like to be able to defend himself I would like to know. From what I understand legally owning a pistol in the Bay Area is basically impossible.

Anonymous said...

A worthwhile read about the validity of the "phone call".

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#more-37932

Anonymous said...

I've always wonder why the more criminally-inclined don't go to neighboring upscale areas to rob. They are usually only a few miles away and one can always steal a car to get there.

For example, I live in a ritzy little town full of tourists and old white people (Carmel, CA). Pebble Beach is a couple of miles down the road. The local crime register is full of missing poodle reports.

Yet, five miles away are gritty towns with plenty of gang low-lives. Twenty miles away, Salinas is Gang-town, with the highest per-capita homicide rate in CA recently.

For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary.

Anonymous said...


For example, I live in a ritzy little town full of tourists and old white people (Carmel, CA). Pebble Beach is a couple of miles down the road. The local crime register is full of missing poodle reports.

Yet, five miles away are gritty towns with plenty of gang low-lives. Twenty miles away, Salinas is Gang-town, with the highest per-capita homicide rate in CA recently.

For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary.


Give me your address and I will make sure they look you up.

Z said...

OT, when the only tool you have is a hammer...

"Collins and Representative Carolyn Maloney, a Democrat from New York, said the prostitution scandal may speak to the need for more women in the Secret Service. She said 11 percent of its agents are women.

“I can’t help but keep asking this question, where are the women?” Maloney said during on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” program. “We probably need to diversify the Secret Service and have more minorities and more women.”"

I'm not even saying she's wrong in this case, a more diverse group would lead to less trust and therefor less propensity toward coordinated lying. However, a more diverse group has its own problems...

By the way maybe she knows something I don't about the race/ethnicity of the guy who burned the house down trying to pay an $800 hooker $30...how is this guy's mug not plastered on the NYT?

Peter said...

I have offered some of the ladies in the neighborhood to shoot the bad guys if they like. But they have assured me that they are all packing heat.

pat, can you say anything about the legality of their possession of pistols? As a fellow Californian who would like to be able to defend himself I would like to know. From what I understand legally owning a pistol in the Bay Area is basically impossible.

Shotguns are a better choice than handguns for defending your house. As they have a much more intimidating appearance, criminals are more likely to flee without any shots being fired. If worst comes to worst and you do have to shoot, it's easier to hit the target with a shotgun (though you still have to aim), and especially if the shotgun is loaded with buckshot it will have FAR greater "stopping power" than any handgun. Finally, while it may seem counterintuitive, it is easier for a criminal to wrestle a handgun away from a homeowner than it is for a shotgun.

Peter said...

I live in a ritzy little town full of tourists and old white people (Carmel, CA). Pebble Beach is a couple of miles down the road. The local crime register is full of missing poodle reports.
Yet, five miles away are gritty towns with plenty of gang low-lives. Twenty miles away, Salinas is Gang-town, with the highest per-capita homicide rate in CA recently.
For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary.


I'll bet that the cops in Carmel and Pebble Beach are very watchful and will be on any Salinas gangbangers in a flash.

Anonymous said...

For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary.

They don't stick out like sore thumbs in their own hoods. Blending in is a big part of not being caught. High-crime neighborhoods probably also have fewer cops per capita and per square mile because their tax bases are inadequate. The average criminal likely doesn't know these stats but probably has seen with his own eyes that wealthy areas have more cops who are invariably on his tail every time he passes through town.

Anonymous said...

Anon @6:32 I've always wonder why the more criminally-inclined don't go to neighboring upscale areas to rob ... For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary.

Welcome to the world of low future time orientation that makes sensible planning impossible. Same example in Chicago: Hyde park/UC campus is a very affluent patch (Obama is among famous residents) basically in the middle of the ghetto. And yet, it is a reasonably safe place with probably close to 90% of the muggings, robberies and burglaries concentrated on the perimeter of the area.

Steve Sailer said...

In Britain, white criminals from urban council flats are likely to drive 50 or 100 miles out into the countryside to home invade rural dwellers. Racial profiling doesn't work well when you have a lot of white criminals.

Steve Sailer said...

The neighborhood where Obama, Farrakhan, and Ayers live is policed by the U. of Chicago police force. Note: don't mess around with them.

beowulf said...

"But it's Obama's hypothetical son we're talking about! Surely that's more important than keeping secret that the victors in WWII are still spying on everybody?"

Ha, like they'd tell him. NSA probably does collect every cell phone call (and email too) but since its illegal, a judge will never hear it.

Anonymous said...

"They don't stick out like sore thumbs in their own hoods. Blending in is a big part of not being caught.... The average criminal probably has seen with his own eyes that wealthy areas have more cops who are invariably on his tail every time he passes through town."

What racial profiling. Surely not?

Gilbert Pinfold.

AMac said...

Anonymous noted upthread (5:45 PM) that "there seems to be evidence that the so-called calls from DeeDee were at the wrong time (some chump forgot about the difference between PST/PDT and EST/EDT.)"

That is not the case. For instance, the record shows Trayvon receiving his final call at 7:12 PM; it lasted for 4 minutes. If this T-Mobile bill was using PST, he'd be chatting post-shooting.

Tom Maguire discussed the issue earlier today, here.

Anonymous said...

Crumped up charges by a chump

Anonymous said...

In Carmel and Pebble Beach (and prob. most upscale CA communities), 95%+ of all manual labor is done by Latinos. They don't live here, but a Latino in a truck would be a common sight.

It just seems to me that an entrepreneurial burglar would be better off hitting rich neighborhoods.

Years ago, as a naive 20-something, I interviewed at University of Chicago Hospital. Having never seen an American ghetto before, I was still struck by the surrounding poverty and danger. I was shown around Hyde Park, and was assured that it was a perfectly nice area to rent a place.

TontoBubbaGoldstein said...

From my observation, "high crime areas" are crawling with cops. I don't think the ratio of police to citizens is positively related to low crime rates. In fact I'd wager the opposite.

Dr Cattle said...

Steve Sailer said..."In Britain, white criminals from urban council flats are likely to drive 50 or 100 miles out into the countryside to home invade rural dwellers. Racial profiling doesn't work well when you have a lot of white criminals."

What a Hell happened to the White British working class in the last 30 years? They're in a worst state than the American one.

It's like the Government made them second-class citzens so the Blacks and Muslims can look better.

Anonymous said...

"For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary."

I'm familiar with the area. There are very few roads in and out of Carmel, or between the Monterey area and Salinas. A few CHP troopers at strategic locations can probably easily put the kibosh on trouble. One of the advantages of living on the rugged central coast... There's a lot of talk of microclimates in California, it seems that sort of applies to people as well...

AllanF said...

Echelon is so 1990's. Last month Wired reported on the NSA's new data center in Orin Hatch's district ;-)

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1

Doesn't seem to be online yet, so it's not a given Trayvon's last call has been played back for Mr. President. In any case, as another has said national security would trump any subpoena power whatsoever. You wouldn't even get a no comment from them. You'd have more of a chance of a response with a message in a bottle thrown overboard 1000 miles due south of Midway Island.

Sideways said...

" They don't stick out like sore thumbs in their own hoods. Blending in is a big part of not being caught"

It makes sense, but ive lived in a town that was mostly middle class or wealthy with a few mostly poor NAM areas and on the border of a not -so -nice part of a major city, and they generally weren't even going 2 blocks over to where property values were 10 times higher on a per-family basis to commit their crimes

The only crime within a few blocks of us in the 5 years we were there was a car taken and dumped a few blocks away, undamaged.

On the other hand, living in one of Murray's super-zips now, the rate of NAMs pulled over is. .. suspicious.

Anonymous said...

"How closely would cell phone records be able to determine the whereabouts of Zimmerman and Martin in the minutes leading up to the shooting? Cell phone systems keep track of which cell a phone is in, so would that be precise enough to evaluate the 'stalk' versus 'double-back' narratives? What about GPS options on phones?"


Steve, the blogger on The Last Refuge has been way ahead of everyone on the Crump-DeeDee coalition. He claims Team Trayvon carefully manufactured the leaks and "evidence" for media consumption, including the DeeDee thing.

He has screen captures of DeeDee's Twitter account (under two handles) that show that what Crump said about her ...that she was Trayvon's girlfriend, that she was devastated by his death, that she had to spend time in the hospital so devastated was she...are all concoctions, as none of that jives with her conversations on Twitter.

Great investigative work there by all, and now, he's done some great work on the complicit Crump-Matt Gutman of ABC combo. Gutman has acted as the agent of Crump's leaks, all of which, of course, were intended to force special prosecutor, Angela Corey, to arrest GZ even though she has collected no evidence beyond what the Sanford PD had collected and even though the Sanford police chief said he and the prosecutor there found no evidence that contradicted GZ's account of the incident.

The blogger and his posters have done extensive work on phone records and what they might mean. Anyone interested go to http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

Anonymous said...

"For example, I live in a ritzy little town full of tourists and old white people (Carmel, CA). Pebble Beach is a couple of miles down the road."

Hmm. Carmel. Are you single?

Anonymous said...

Cell phone location tracking involves many factors.

Proximity to towers, number of nearby towers (Urban areas have more. More is better.), were they smartphones, was wifi, gps, or assisted gps enabled?

Example 1: If both phones were non smart phones, then accuracy to 50 feet is likely. That's a huge distance, but it may be possible to tease out direction of travel.

Example 2: If both phones were smart phones, then tracking them to within a few feet is possible. (by piecing together tower signal strength, gps, wifi signals, application files, even hidden files from manufacturers and app developers...)
IMO this is very unlikely.

Anonymous said...

"High-crime neighborhoods probably also have fewer cops per capita and per square mile because their tax bases are inadequate."

I'm in the burglar alarm business and know the numbers. In cities where I work, high crime neighborhoods have far more cops. But, these neighborhoods have far, Far, FAR more crime.
(syntax trademark Whiskey)

Auntie Analogue said...

Another reason low rent burglars shy from theft in an affluent area is that they don't know the location of bolt holes, quickly accessible hideouts in a place where they otherwise stick out like sore thumbs; and they also lack familiar accomplices-of-opportunity, or even fellow gang members, to give them cover on their getaway. They may also not know the road net - and the street layout in a lot of suburban housing tracts can be bewildering to anyone who's actually quite literate and able to read street signs (Im the days before cell phone Google maps I temped for a fortnight as a courier, and several delivery addresses in a particular subdivision vexed me, since every one of them bore the same first name of the developer's daughter, each street distinguished from the others only by its designtion as street, court, way, place, alley, close, avenue, lane, parkway, boulevard, esplanade, drive, &c. - there were over twenty streets distinguished solely by those suffixes!). Moreover, in affluent areas, blacks and hispanics aren't under protection of their own neighborhood denizens "no-snitch" information blackout to the police, while on the other hand affluent victims eagerly tell all to law enforcement and to their insuror's claims investigator. But, above all, most low rent criminals are simply lazy - why should they expend the extra effort to shift themselves out to more affluent areas when they can take advantage of easier, nearer pickings? - and then fence or spend their loot directly to their neighborhood drug dealer for their particular addictive substance?


On the Martin-Zimmerman case: cell phone triangulation would likely prove moot, as either prosecution or defense could mount a wide assortment of objections to its accuracy, methodology, and so on - and likely produce any number of experts to testify to either accuracy, or to inaccuracy of triangulation. If in court one or the other side drew a map of triangulated movement, expert testimony would soon turn the map into something resembling a confusing diagram of a Marx Brothers' football play.

Propeller Island said...

There are something like 3 billion mobile phone calls being made every day. I highly doubt they are being recorded; how would they even store those records?

Propeller Island said...

"Carolyn Maloney, a Democrat from New York, said the prostitution scandal may speak to the need for more women in the Secret Service."


Yes, our Presidents need more female body guards. Insert your own Qattafey joke here.

Truth said...

"Marine Le Pen got 20% of the votes in the French Presidential Election."

FIFY:

"Marine Le Pen lost."

Anonymous said...

"Shotguns are a better choice than handguns for defending your house. As they have a much more intimidating appearance, criminals are more likely to flee without any shots being fired. If worst comes to worst and you do have to shoot, it's easier to hit the target with a shotgun (though you still have to aim), and especially if the shotgun is loaded with buckshot it will have FAR greater "stopping power" than any handgun. Finally, while it may seem counterintuitive, it is easier for a criminal to wrestle a handgun away from a homeowner than it is for a shotgun."

I've been given the same advice by my nephew--get a shotgun.

Truth said...

A couple more "neighborhood watch captains."


http://news.yahoo.com/md-neighborhood-watch-trial-set-against-fla-fury-140920015.html

Truth said...

The weekly "great white defendant" that people are supposedly searching for so hard has turned up (again).

Oh, wait, you never heard about this case in the midst of the whole "media crush", never-mind.

Anonymous said...

I'm in the burglar alarm business and know the numbers. In cities where I work, high crime neighborhoods have far more cops. But, these neighborhoods have far, Far, FAR more crime.

Obviously every locality is different, but it might surprise you to hear that Beverly Hills PD has 4.7 cops per 1000 people, whereas LAPD has 3.5 cops per 1000 people.

Anonymous said...

Sure, the NSA has a recording of the call. Unfortunately, like some of the calls in their possession which foretold 9/11, they have yet to find a translator to decode Trayvon and DeeDee's conversation.

Seriously, though, I like the idea of Obama getting the NSA to play the call back for his own personal delectation, all the while knowing that the call is inadmissible as evidence - and that it's very existence is a state secret.

E HENRY THRIPSHAW

Anonymous said...

Marine Le Pen got 20% of the votes in the French Presidential Election.

It had a turnout of more than 80%, puts America to shame.


France's far right are browns, socialists who have more in common with Hollande than Sarkozy, who's a free enterprise kind of guy. My bet is that the lure of freebies and an easy life will lead the far right to vote for Hollande. Free stuff will trump nationalism.

eh said...

What a Hell happened to the White British working class in the last 30 years?

Instead of asking this question, you ought to ask Mr Sailer to present some evidence for his assertion. Which you seem to accept as fact. I'm not saying it isn't. Just that there is no evidence presented here to support it.

Anonymous said...

The neighborhood where Obama, Farrakhan, and Ayers live is policed by the U. of Chicago police force. Note: don't mess around with them.


Is "the U. of Chicago" an incorporated town in the state of Illinois?

If not, then how does this private-sector "police force" differ from, say, oh, gosh, let's just throw a name out there, like, uh, oh, maybe, ah, how about, "BLACKWATER"!?!

Anonymous said...

http://youtu.be/uDSvvb7tLJE

Anonymous said...

Truth says:

The weekly "great white defendant" that people are supposedly searching for so hard has turned up (again).

Oh, wait, you never heard about this case in the midst of the whole "media crush", never-mind.


Unfortunately, that super genius African American called Truth couldn't get the URL correct: That is not the URL you are looking for Truth, this one might be

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

A couple more "neighborhood watch captains."

http://news.yahoo.com/md-neighborhood-watch-trial-set-against-fla-fury-140920015.html"

Your "case" against George Zimmerman has broken down, so you change the subject. Anyway, I have no reason to suspect that those two were not everybit as justified as Zimmerman was. And anyway, they didn't shoot the guy. They duked it out - isn't that what you said that whites should do?

"Truth said...

The weekly "great white defendant" that people are supposedly searching for so hard has turned up (again).

Oh, wait, you never heard about this case in the midst of the whole "media crush", never-mind."

That's because it was an accidental shooting, asshat. It sounds like the perpetrator was grossly negligent, perhaps criminally so, and he certainly needs to answer for taking the life of that poor young girl.

But ultimately, it is comparable to a traffic fatality.

pat said...

I'm flattered that people might think I'm some kind of firearms expert. I've acquire most of my expertise lately from watching Top Guns on TV. I'm a sort of couch potato expert.

However I do have opinions if not any real expertise. Qualities that are well suited for the role of blog commenter.

I don't own a shot gun because I can't hit anything with one. Those skeets are safe around me. OTOH I learned in the army that any boob can be dangerous with a rifle. That's the great lesson of the military. with my M-1, I and every other man in my regiment could hit every target well enough to qualify. About half the guys I met in the army would be challenged if they had to spell "CAT" but they could all shoot. The M-1 can easily hit a man size target at 600 yards. But I can only see such a target at maybe 200 yards.

I met another programmer from Texas who introduced me to pistols. He actually left San Francisco to return to Texas over the concealed carry laws in California. Anyway over the course of a couple months I tried every revolver and pistol at a local gun range. I found that if you have arthritis in your thumb you will not enjoy shooting a .44 Magnum. I finally bought a full sized Sig Sauer in .40 S&W. Nice gun.

I had been advised to get a chrome plated revolver on the theory that the malefactor will see it gleam in the dim light conditions and vacate your premises post haste. This is sort of like the "chink-chink" sound of a shot gun theory. Don't shoot and end up like Zimmerman in the docket. Just intimidate.

That actually works. When I lived in San Francisco near Chinatown we had a Ninja try to come though our bedroom window. I ran out back with my little thirty two revolver and screamed at him that I was coming around the corner with my .38.

It's probably illegal in SF to lie to a Ninja. In any case I thought it best to move up in firepower when we moved to Oakland.

Kylie said...

"...I live in a ritzy little town full of tourists and old white people (Carmel, CA). Pebble Beach is a couple of miles down the road. The local crime register is full of missing poodle reports.

Yet, five miles away are gritty towns with plenty of gang low-lives. Twenty miles away, Salinas is Gang-town, with the highest per-capita homicide rate in CA recently.

For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary."


Apparently all their energies are taken up with poodle-snatching.

formerly no name said...

France's far right are browns, socialists who have more in common with Hollande than Sarkozy, who's a free enterprise kind of guy. My bet is that the lure of freebies and an easy life will lead the far right to vote for Hollande. Free stuff will trump nationalism.

There will be plenty of "free stuff" no matter who is elected. Just like there was plenty of "free stuff" (including bailouts for the bankers) under Bush and plenty of the same "free stuff" under BHO. If you think that Sarkozy is going to try to abolish the French welfare state you are seriously deranged.

TontoBubbaGoldstein said...

If only Barbara Billingsly hadn't passed on in 2010.

Matt said...

"There are something like 3 billion mobile phone calls being made every day. I highly doubt they are being recorded; how would they even store those records?"

Cell phone audio quality is quite low - maybe a few dozen kbps. You could comfortably fit a day's worth of US calls on a few terabytes. Wouldn't be difficult at all for Uncle Sam. Even Google handles much more data every day.

That said, any such logs would be useless in a case like this because (as some have mentioned) 1: any judge would throw out the evidence, and 2: the NSA would certainly never blow their own sweet setup by revealing to all and sundry that they were listening, especially not for a picayune case like this.

Anonymous said...

KKK wore white hoods. Black thugs wear hoodies.

TontoBubbaGoldstein said...

Too bad Barbara Billingsly passed away a couple years ago. (She spoke jive.)

Farang said...

Anonymous wrote:
France's far right are browns, socialists who have more in common with Hollande than Sarkozy, who's a free enterprise kind of guy. My bet is that the lure of freebies and an easy life will lead the far right to vote for Hollande. Free stuff will trump nationalism.

According to opinion polls, about 19% of Le Pen voters will vote for Hollande. Between 40% and 50% will vote for Sarkozy. The rest (30% or 40% of Le Pen voters) will not vote at all in the runoff.

Sarkozy was educated by his Greek-Jewish grandfather. His record is appalling: immigration and crime exploded under his watch, unemployment doubled, the number of police officer was severely reduced, police budgets were cut. Several years ago Sarkozy said in a public speech that miscegenation is a must for France. He supports positive discrimination, etc. He's no better than Hollande, maybe even worse. Why any nationalist with a three digit IQ vote for him?

Sarkozy is a pathological liar, a psychopath who always said, and did, anything to become president. It worked fine until now. The real Sarkozy is a neoconservative with a French passport. He is fascinated by the rich, like Tony Blair was, and his obsession is to become rich by making paid lectures like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton, when he's a former president. He said so during a luncheon with journalists intellectuals, who reported what he had said. And that was in 2008.

He fooled us all French nationalists and working-class patriots in 2007. Fool me once...

Melykin said...

I live in British Columbia, and I am amazed the the description of one town as being prosperous and mostly white, and another town a few miles down the road as being a slum. The only thing in BC that is at all like this is Indian Reserves. They are always (in my experience) shabby and slum-like, with uncared for houses and yards. Most other towns are a sort of mixed bag, with some nice houses, some not-so nice houses. Most larger towns have an area of older houses (maybe in a down town area), and sometimes these get run down and attract drug addicts and natives off the reserves. But in my town the downtown area is being gentrified and the seedy inhabitants dispersed. I wouldn't say you could point to one area of town and say--that is the bad , high crime area. The towns in BC seem to be somewhat more homogeneous than in Californina.

It is probably down to having very few NAMS in BC. There are a lot of Chinese and Sikhs, and in a big city such as Vancouver there are certain areas that are mostly Chinese, or mostly Sikh, but I don't think those areas are particularly high crime. There are some Sikh gangs, but I don't think they effect a whole neighbourhood. There are a few Chinese gangsters, but you don't hear much about them. I remember reading about a software company in Richmond that got busted for writing software that allowed restaurants to cheat on their tax. And a Richmond driving school was busted because they were bribing one of the government examiners to pass people. I would say the Chinese and Sikhs tend to be a lot more corrupt than white people, but not into street crime.

The Sikhs, frankly, I would avoid doing business with because I would probably get cheated. Both the Sikhs and Chinese are expert at avoiding tax and taking advantage of government programs. However, they generally don't rob you directly or mug you. I once went into a Sikh area near Vancouver to shop at one of their fabric stores. I got some funny looks but I never felt unsafe.

It is probably different in Toronto where they have a lot of black people from Jamaica and Somalia. Some geniuses in the government decided it was a good idea to let them immigrate to Canada.

Anonymous said...

"nobody seems terribly interested in the question"--is that a weak attempt at humor using your most strained rhetorical trope, or are you seriously unaware of domestic flood-the-zone media going back to at least the Carnivore/Triggerfish era? If it's the latter you could start with the recent Wired magazine cover story about the new NSA compound outside Sandy, Utah

Anonymous said...

From Wikipedia:

"The 1965 Immigration Act did change America's demographics, opening the doors to immigrants from Mediterranean Europe, Latin America and Asia. By the 1990s, America's population growth was more than one-third driven by legal immigration, as opposed to one-tenth before the act. The act increased illegal immigration from Latin America, especially Mexico, since the unlimited legal 'bracero' system previously in-place was cut...

As a result of these changes in legal immigration among other factors, America is expected to become minority European by the year 2040."

It's going to happen a lot sooner than that.

Anonymous said...

"As a result of these changes in legal immigration among other factors, America is expected to become minority European by the year 2040.

"It's going to happen a lot sooner than that."

********************************
Whether it does or doesn't happen sooner than that, those on the gravy train seem happy to know whites will no longer be the majority, but they've given no thought to who will be the worker bees to supply taxes for their goodies?

Whites ought to start putting up billboards: "When there aren't many of us, who will pay for your stuff?"

Anonymous said...

Breaking rumor from Free Republic:

I have just learned from a friend in Seminole County law enforcement, who is very close to Zimmermann case, that the case against Mr. Zimmerman is even weaker than originally thought.

It seems that the police officer/technician who collected the evidence at the scene and signed the evidence report was not in any way qualified to do so.

He was much more of a breathalyzer technician and someone who would do field drug testing and initial toxicology reports at the scenes of suspected crimes. It is believed that the shooting was his first ever full crime scene investigation and he had not been trained to the standard levels of competency. The Sanford PD did not think the case against Zimmerman had nearly enough merit to bother doing a thorough investigation.

In addition, when the drug screens come back from Martin, they will show a host of recreational drugs. All of this is further circumstantial evidence of potential irrational activity on the part of Mr. Martin, and remember, the State has already admitted that they have no evidence as to who started the fight.

There's more: There is another very interesting point of law coming to the forefront. It may easily be held that regardless of who started the fight, when Martin slammed Zimmerman's head onto the concrete with the force that he did, that act became Assault With A Deadly Weapon, (the concrete,) and at that point Zimmerman had the right to defend himself, with deadly force if necessary, regardless of what had happened up to that point.

We shall see.


Corey may need to find a line of work outside of the legal arena, when she is disbarred like Nifong.

GPSGuy said...

When a 911 call is made with a cell phone the PSAP's (Public Service Answering Point) system will begin generating a position fix within a few seconds of the call starting. These position fixes are generated once per second as long as the call is open so emergency responders will know where to go. Outdoors in a suburban environment like Sanford those fixes will be accurate to about 15 feet for a phone equipped with modern GPS (most phones now), and 50-100 feet with non GPS phones that use cell tower trilateration. Cell phones do not usually generate precision fixes except during 911 calls or if the user turns on the navigation function.
When the phones were not in use or were being used for non 911 calls
there were probably no other position records except for the very rough estimates based on which tower was being used for service.
Best case for Zimmerman would be that he had a GPS phone, and he made multiple 911 calls, or stayed on the 911 call while moving so that positions stored at the PSAP would show him moving away from Martin.

Paul Mendez said...

For some strange reason, the homeboys just don't have the initiative to drive 1/2 an hour to commit burglary.

Most of these thugs' whole world consists of the few blocks where they grew up. They don't leave the hood, and are often scared to.

During the Crack Wars of the early 1990's, I would read stories in the Washington Post about some gangbanger with a price on his head hiding out at his girlfriend's or aunt's house -- THREE BLOCKS AWAY.

Truth said...

"Anyway, I have no reason to suspect that those two were not everybit as justified as Zimmerman was."

Well knock me over with a feather.

"That's because it was an accidental shooting, asshat."

Sure it was, until they found Nazi, Confederate, and KKK memorabilia in his house.

Truth said...

"That actually works. When I lived in San Francisco near Chinatown we had a Ninja try to come though our bedroom window...."

LMAO, I thought only black people on the radio used "ninja."

S.Anonyia said...

"It makes sense, but ive lived in a town that was mostly middle class or wealthy with a few mostly poor NAM areas and on the border of a not -so -nice part of a major city, and they generally weren't even going 2 blocks over to where property values were 10 times higher on a per-family basis to commit their crimes"

This is not true in the South. Car theft, home invasions, robberies, and muggings are all not uncommon in the affluent pockets of big cities...usually will be a semi-historical "midtown" sort of area, filled mostly with elderly whites or childless couples.

Anonymous said...

And why would a Japanese Ninja be lurking in Chinatown?

ben tillman said...

I'm familiar with the area. There are very few roads in and out of Carmel, or between the Monterey area and Salinas. A few CHP troopers at strategic locations can probably easily put the kibosh on trouble.

It's a peninsula. You can't get out, and if you don't belong there you can't hide.

ben tillman said...

"There are something like 3 billion mobile phone calls being made every day. I highly doubt they are being recorded; how would they even store those records?"

Cell phone audio quality is quite low - maybe a few dozen kbps. You could comfortably fit a day's worth of US calls on a few terabytes.


Wow -- your arithmetic is horrendous. A few dozen kbps -- say 33 kbps -- times, say, 2 minutes per call yields 4 mb per call. Four million bytes times three billion is 12 quadrillion bytes, or 12,000 terabytes. Per day.

Anonymous said...

This is not true in the South. Car theft, home invasions, robberies, and muggings are all not uncommon in the affluent pockets of big cities...usually will be a semi-historical "midtown" sort of area, filled mostly with elderly whites or childless couples.

This is why people move to the burbs. City cops are overwhelmed and undermanned. Suburban cops are not.

JSM said...

Hey, Troot!

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-condition-ar-3659891/

A few quotes from the story:

"Mobile police need your help to catch a mob [of blacks] that beat Matthew Owens [White American] so badly that he's in critical condition."



"Parker says 20 people, all African American, attacked her brother on the front porch of his home, using "brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on."

"As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now thats justice for Trayvon."

Svigor said...

Marine Le Pen got 20% of the votes in the French Presidential Election.

It had a turnout of more than 80%, puts America to shame.


If Americans could actually vote for someone who represents their interests, maybe 80% of them would show up for elections, too.

“I can’t help but keep asking this question, where are the women?” Maloney said during on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” program. “We probably need to diversify the Secret Service and have more minorities and more women.”"

I can't help but agree with Maloney, but for the fact that she doesn't go far enough. I'd like to see nothing but women, homosexual men, and Blacks protecting the President.

Hell, let's make the military all women, homosexual men, and Black. And the entire federal gov't, and the media, and academia. Oh, and "corporate America," (sorry, that one's got to have scare-quotes; it's right up there with jumbo shrimp) too.

I have only two conditions: first, it must be top-down; start replacing YT (and assorted paleskins) at the top first in all cases, and only then work downward. Second, it must be genuine; no hidden pockets of YTs and assorted paleskins in smoke-filled rooms.

Shotguns are a better choice than handguns for defending your house. As they have a much more intimidating appearance, criminals are more likely to flee without any shots being fired. If worst comes to worst and you do have to shoot, it's easier to hit the target with a shotgun (though you still have to aim), and especially if the shotgun is loaded with buckshot it will have FAR greater "stopping power" than any handgun. Finally, while it may seem counterintuitive, it is easier for a criminal to wrestle a handgun away from a homeowner than it is for a shotgun.

You forgot penetration. Buckshot has very low penetration and is typically stopped by sheetrock and the like. So you can blow your perp away without worrying (too much) about junior in the next room.

I've been given the same advice by my nephew--get a shotgun.

Make sure it's got a real magazine, or whatever you call it; 8 shots, not 5.

The neighborhood where Obama, Farrakhan, and Ayers live is policed by the U. of Chicago police force. Note: don't mess around with them.

LOL! Chicago cops are so famous for their brutality, even the campus cops are famous flatheads.

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

Sure it was, until they found Nazi, Confederate, and KKK memorabilia in his house."

So, klansmen and neo-nazis never have accidents - they're super competent and on the ball? Who know that "Truth" had such a high opinion of them?

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

The weekly "great white defendant" that people are supposedly searching for so hard has turned up (again).

Oh, wait, you never heard about this case in the midst of the whole "media crush", never-mind."

Wow, Mr. Compassion posts again. He always chides us for being heartless, but here he's telling us about a sixteen year old girl who was killed, and it's just snark-fodder for him. Not a word of sympathy for a young woman whose life was snuffed out.

Steve Sailer said...

Actually, from what I've been told by a Hyde Parker, the U of Chicago campus police, who police the surrounding off campus neighborhoods as well, are scarier than Chicago Police Department cops. Twenty years ago, a friend of mine from LA visited Chicago. He said he was impressed by how numerous and how fat Chicago cops were. (It's not uncommon to see four or five police cruisers pulled up together in a Chicago park with the cops gossiping or sleeping.) That shows institutional confidence. Whereas, he said, LAPD cops tend to spend their off hours pumping iron at Gold's Gym getting ready for the Thin Blue Line's next wrestle in the gutter with the bad guys.

Anonymous said...

Whites ought to start putting up billboards: "When there aren't many of us, who will pay for your stuff?"

When we're all forced out of work, who will pay for your welfare checks?

Anonymous said...

Would anyone like to try answering this question posed at

http://intellectualcollectivism.blogspot.com/

Is it my imagination or has it suddenly become more common and acceptable to refer to "non-blacks"? How much is this to do with finding a suitable category for George Zimmerman since "white hispanic" seems somewhat inappropriate for a dark skinned native speaker of English?

Truth said...

"So, klansmen and neo-nazis never have accidents"

No, neither do kids who got suspended for marijuana residue.

You're finally getting it Sport!

pat said...

And why would a Japanese Ninja be lurking in Chinatown?

Actually I lived on Russian Hill. There is indeed a Japantown in SF but "Russian Hill" is right next to Chinatown and pretty far from Japantown.

The guy that was testing my bedroom window was wearing a Ninja outfit - all black with only his eyes showing. At night and in the heat of an armed confrontation I couldn't be certain that those eyes had epicanthic folds, much less that they were Japanese versus Chinese.

In point of fact the most renowned Ninja in San Francisco is the red headed Brian Orosco

JSM said...

"So, klansmen and neo-nazis never have accidents"

No, neither do kids who got suspended for marijuana residue.

You're finally getting it Sport!"

Lessee, the supposed Klansman who shot that girl, that wasn't an accident, that was deliberate, you're saying.

And the kid that got suspended for marijuana residue was Trayvon. So you're saying, Troof, that Trayvon beating Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk wasn't an accident; it was deliberate.

Got it.

Anonymous said...

I live in San Jose. It's very easy. Visit your nearest gun range or gun shop-they'll help you get started. Barring a criminal past, the process takes about two weeks.

Tom

NOTA said...

The claim I've read/heard is that some large fraction of all electronic communications is touched by NSA equipment, less is stored, and still less is ever heard/seen by a human. One really big thing now is social network analysis--build a graph of who talks to whom in various ways. This makes it much easier to see who are the critical members of a political movement, and pre-emptively arrest them or blow them up with a missile. It also lets you learn interesting information about who might be interesting to record calls to/from--for example, anyone who talks a lot to someone you're interested in is probably worth keeping a close watch on. All that can be done automatically for a reasonable sized watchlist.

Some discussion of this and related jack booted thuggery by DHS/FBI people is here, with a transcript. (All three interviewees are worth hearing from.).

This article discusses the use of social network analysis for cracking terrorist networks. But the same idea applies to political movements. I think a different set of tools would be useful for looking for scandals--there, you're looking for links between targets (politicians, journalists, activists, high-ranking policemen) and people closely connected to some known or suspected vice--say, finding out if a senator has a lot of contacts with known gays or people associated with drugs or prostitution.

Truth said...

"
Lessee, the supposed Klansman who shot that girl, that wasn't an accident, that was deliberate, you're saying.

And the kid that got suspended for marijuana residue was Trayvon. So you're saying, Troof, that Trayvon beating Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk wasn't an accident; it was deliberate."

My bad, Bro; I didn't translate into Esperanto first.

Anonymous said...

"I live in British Columbia, and I am amazed the the description of one town as being prosperous and mostly white, and another town a few miles down the road as being a slum. ... The towns in BC seem to be somewhat more homogeneous than in Californina."

California population is very non-uniform. Some huge percentage lives within 5 miles of the coast. Ten to twenty miles inland in a lot of places (any place agricultural) it is a whole different world.

The highly agricultural central valley has many old ag towns that are very poor and unemployment at some times is very high (maybe 30-40%?).

Places like Salinas are old ag centers (the vastly productive farm land John Steinbeck wrote about in Grapes of Wrath). This ag land is so good that maybe thirty years ago it had the highest ag wages in the world. For some reasons there was non-stop immigration into these places from south of the border, probably from about the time of the last big mexican revolution (1910-1920) to now.

A few decades ago a lot of the big ag companies in Steinbeck country decided to go to mexico, after it became legal for them to own land there! There are a lot of surplus ag workers, many from very poor places in mexico that don't even speak Spanish.

Give it a hundred years or so, your experience in Canada might not be so different.. Just remember, Canada can support infinite immigration and population growth! It's always good!

JSM said...

"My bad, Bro; I didn't translate into Esperanto first."

I'm not a bro, for like the 88th time, and you don't need to learn Esperanto. You need to learn English comprehension.

I do, so, love it, however, when, despite all your bluster, your low IQ causes you to utterly shoot all your own arguments to hell. For such a day's merriment, in addition to Steve's insightful analysis, is why I come here.
Thanks!

Truth said...

"I'm not a bro, for like the 88th time,"

Oh, my bad, Dawg.

Anonymous said...

"I live in British Columbia, and I am amazed the the description of one town as being prosperous and mostly white, and another town a few miles down the road as being a slum. ... The towns in BC seem to be somewhat more homogeneous than in Californina."

Another way to understand this is to note that the wikipedia page for California has the demographics of California as 40% white, 38% Hispanic, and about 20% everything else. They break out what they call "Mexicans" as 30% of the population, so about 8% of the total population is non-Mexican Hispanic. For what it's worth, Californians with mostly English descent are almost 7% of the population.

There was a time when California was considered perhaps the leading experiment in the society of the future, or somesuch, well, the results have been coming in, with very little fanfare. It looks like cultures aren't something you just put on and off like fashionable clothes.

JSM said...

"Oh, my bad, Dawg."

Not a dawg either.

You may call me "Broad," "Dame," "Gal," or even "Sheila."

Truth said...

Oh; I keep forgetting you're the third Sportette here for some reason.


Got it now.