July 15, 2012

You were lied to by your Penthouse magazines

In the Huffington Post, a lesbian sex counselor, Glenda Corwin, explains that the lesbian long-term monogamous sex glass is, when you stop and think about it the right way, not just 80% empty, but also 20% full!
When I first heard about "lesbian bed death" I was puzzled. What's the point in coming out if you're not going to have sex? Because let's face it -- being lesbian isn't just about having wonderful emotional connections with other women. It's about having sex with them. That's what gets us in trouble with the rest of the world. So how could we walk away from something we fought so hard to have? 
At first I was overwhelmed, and a little depressed, about how many of my lesbian clients and friends were rarely -- if ever -- having sex with their partners. But when I started doing research on this subject, I found reason to hope. There's some evidence that a minority (maybe 20 percent) of long-term lesbian partners sustain sexual intimacy after 10 or 20 or more years together. 

67 comments:

Anonymous said...

"At first I was overwhelmed, and a little depressed, about how many of my lesbian clients and friends were rarely -- if ever -- having sex with their partners."

And this is why talking numbers of "same-sex attracted" females is so difficult.

The "attraction" is for obviously many, that of companionship, friendship.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, right after I read your "Lesbian Bed Death" post, I ran into this on Drudge:

'Monica, Monica' chants taunt Clinton in Egypt:

"US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was taunted by chants of "Monica, Monica" by tomato-throwing demonstrators as she visited the Egyptian port city of Alexandria on Sunday."

I shouldn't laugh, being a good American and all, but...I did.

walter condley said...

That's what gets us in trouble with the rest of the world.

Typical, her whole premise is wrong. What str8's don't like about lesbians is that they're (a) mostly eyesores, and (b) hostile to everyone. Nobody cares who you sleep with, moron.

a very knowing American said...

A problem for a lot of lesbians is that they are trapped in an essentialist construction that says that lesbians have to be female. If they were more open to relationships with members of the male lesbian community they might find their sex lives getting more active. The activist group Dykes With Dicks has been working on these issues for some time now.

SFG said...

Eh, whatever. If they're happy together, who cares? Men always wanted sex more than women did.

PA said...

Having known and partied with young lesbians in my twenties, one thing is clear to me: the only real, congenital lesbians are ones who look butch. They really are born that way.

Pretty, femme lesbians? Not real. They are otherwise-straight women who were derailed toward lesbianism either by traumatic formative sexual experiences, or by falling in with a crowd of lezzies where "alpha" dykes seduced them similar to how a man would. Those are typically girls who are weak-willed, and often a mess of psychological problems. In their case, going gay indeed is a social construct.

One outlier among femme "lesbians" is the hot young woman whose alpha threshold for men is so high, she prefers to hold out by having sexual relations with other women. Catherine Trammel from "Basic Instinct" is an archetype of that type of girl.

Anonymous said...

Strapon rights, now!

Kylie said...

"What's the point in coming out if you're not going to have sex?"

For some, the point is the shock value and attention garnered; that is, being "lipstick lesbians" in the UK sense of the phrase.

"Because let's face it -- being lesbian isn't just about having wonderful emotional connections with other women."

Right. It's also about an excess of plaid flannel and brutally unattractive haircuts and eyewear.

"It's about having sex with them. That's what gets us in trouble with the rest of the world."

No, what gets you in trouble with the rest of the world is the unrelenting and unearned hostility toward men and the women who don't hate them.

"So how could we walk away from something we fought so hard to have?"

Because when all is said and done, you're still female, which generally means you want to eat your cake and have it too.

What a dumb broad.

JayMan said...

Not surprised at all. As I said elsewhere, if when sex took place was left to the whims of *only* women, in many cases it would just never happen. Lesbians typically have a female attitude towards sex, just as gay men typically have a male attitude towards sex. And just as gay men have *more* sex than their straight counterparts, it would stand to reason that lesbians have less.

Women have, on average, lower sex drives than men. It then follows that those on the extremes of the distribution are found mainly in one gender, asexuals in the case of women, "hypersexuals" in the case of men.

The Penthouse bit is interesting. Many, if not most true lesbians are probably not the most attractive to most men. What most men are interested in are *bisexual* women. Bisexual women for the most part do not have the problem of "bed death", as bisexual women have higher sex drives on average than straight women do. Of course, most bisexuals end up in relationships with men, as that seems to be point of female bisexuality.

JayMan said...

Not surprised at all. As I said elsewhere, if when sex took place was left to the whims of *only* women, in many cases it would just never happen. Lesbians typically have a female attitude towards sex, just as gay men typically have a male attitude towards sex. And just as gay men have *more* sex than their straight counterparts, it would stand to reason that lesbians have less.

Women have, on average, lower sex drives than men. It then follows that those on the extremes of the distribution are found mainly in one gender, asexuals in the case of women, "hypersexuals" in the case of men.

The Penthouse bit is interesting. Many, if not most true lesbians are probably not the most attractive to most men. What most men are interested in are *bisexual* women. Bisexual women for the most part do not have the problem of "bed death", as bisexual women have higher sex drives on average than straight women do. Of course, most bisexuals end up in relationships with men, as that seems to be point of female bisexuality.

Anonymous said...

"20%...long-term lesbian partners sustain sexual intimacy after 10 or 20 or more years together."

This indicates lesbian women hitting 'the wall' just like their heterosexual sisters.

Hahahahahaha!

Anonymous said...

The same problem exists in heterosexual marriage. There was a time when I thought my lust for my wife could never be satisfied. But after years of marriage and 3 kids, I can promise everyone that it will never work the way it used to no matter what the couple. We're both in our 30s, exceptionally fit, and could easily attract partners if we were so inclined. So it's not a matter of declining appearance. There is data to back up this trend, too.

Anonymous said...

Gays are boring. Spread the word.

Anonymous said...

Hilarious!!!! Does each of the women complain that the other is not interested? In a regular couple the guy complains the woman is not interested enough, but with lesbians, they are both women. So, they both have to play the same role. Synergism!!

Anonymous said...

"Typical, her whole premise is wrong. What str8's don't like about lesbians is that they're (a) mostly eyesores, and (b) hostile to everyone. Nobody cares who you sleep with, moron."

YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!

I laughed at this till I cried!!!

YESSS!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"A problem for a lot of lesbians is that they are trapped in an essentialist construction that says that lesbians have to be female. If they were more open to relationships with members of the male lesbian community they might find their sex lives getting more active. The activist group Dykes With Dicks has been working on these issues for some time now."

Sam Peckinpah once described himself as a male lesbian.

Sideways said...

20% on the high end after 10+ years? Are heterosexual women that terrible and is it a to women thing, or is it a lesbian thing?

Anonymous said...

Lesbianism wasn't sexual, it wasn't even lesbianism a hundred years ago. They called it a Boston marriage.

Then as now, it was rumored some of them would rub each other's muffins on occasion, but that wasn't even considered sex: it was what legitimate doctors charged women for to "relieve hysteria". Doctors used hand vibrators and what we would now call dildos as part of perfectly accepted therapy. My grandfather (a pharmacist) knew Red Krohn-gyno to the stars in LA-and he told him that when he was a resident the old docs would talk about those days.

Gays-male homosexuals-are obsessed with sex. Lesbians don't care about sex once teenage horniness wears off. That is one reason lesbians aren't gay.

in Columbus said...

Lesbians also aren't a major disease vector in this country. Trade-offs, you know.

Anonymous said...

GOOGLE IMAGES: Glenda Corwin

On Behalf of Albertosaurus said...

The activist group Dykes With Dicks has been working on these issues for some time now.

What's y'alls' position on corporal punishment?

Big Bill said...

To all you femmes out there, I think I can help.

You see, I am a pre-conversion transsexual lesbian bull dyke and I am open to changing the bed death situation.

I am a genetic male, with your traditional erect, throbbing male member, a crew cut, deep voice, the whole schmear.

But since I am a woman deep down inside (a really, really butch womon-lovin' bull dyke woman) You can rest assured that you are safe with me.

I admit, it might SEEM like a man is bedding you, but I am really, REALLY a woman.

As a member of the male lesbian community, you have to trust me on this. Sex with me is about as Progressive and transgressive as you can get!

peterike said...

So apparently the reality that's going unsaid here is that fat, bull dyke, manly lesbians also think fat, bull dyke, manly lesbians are unattractive.

Jason said...

Actually, in all seriousness, I think the Huff. columnist inadvertently deals with the critical issue as far as the gay and lesbian marriage issue is concerned: How many gays and lesbians are actually interested in marriage (a LTR relationship par excellence?) For if only a tiny minority of them are interested in marriage, then that suggests that legalized gay/lesbian marriage is probably not a great idea, especially considering the potential negative effects of it.

Isabel said...

"Sorry, right after I read your "Lesbian Bed Death" post, I ran into this on Drudge:

'Monica, Monica' chants taunt Clinton in Egypt:"

And the connection is...?

SF said...

I went to the funeral of a married lesbian who died an early death of cancer last year. One of her friends bragged about how they had had good sex, then gone back to their wives (who were both present). I'm not sure gay marriage really emphasizes commitment. It's not like they have to worry about who the kid's father is.

Anonymous said...

"'Monica, Monica' chants taunt Clinton in Egypt:"

And the connection is...? "

Bill beat her to her.

Anonymous said...

And the connection is...?

Hillary Clinton is rumored to be lesbian.

Anonymous said...

'Lesbian bed death' - Definitely nothing to with bieng found pink and stiff in the morning.

(Sorry, but seing that you mentioned Hustler in an earlier post...).

Steve Sailer said...

Is somebody implying that Ann Heche has "a mess of psychological problems?"

Paul said...

"Because let's face it -- being lesbian isn't just about having wonderful emotional connections with other women."

Evidently, if they are together for 10, 20 years or longer, as the article suggests, and they aren't having sex, then it is about the emotional connections, because the physical ones aren't there.

Carlos said...

"You were lied to by your Penthouse magazines"

Wait, does this mean that the two gorgeous chicks making out inside aren't representative of lesbians?

Anonymous said...

Into the distance, a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast,
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?

Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I

Anonymous said...

"Sorry, right after I read your "Lesbian Bed Death" post, I ran into this on Drudge: 'Monica, Monica' chants taunt Clinton in Egypt:" And the connection is...?

HUMA ABEDIN FTW!!!

Harrison said...

""Because let's face it -- being lesbian isn't just about having wonderful emotional connections with other women."

Right. It's also about an excess of plaid flannel and brutally unattractive haircuts and eyewear."


There's definite truth to that. One of my female friends who is a happily married attractive straight woman, was one of those rare cases of someone getting cancer in her late 20s. She had cancer treatments and lost her hair. She opted not to get a wig. When it started growing back she had a short butch thing going on for a while, and she complained that dykes were eyeing her, and hitting on her left and right. Several of us went to a bar to celebrate her coming back to work, and yep, she was right. The haircut itself is a significant marker of sexual preference.

Anonymous said...

Is somebody implying that Ann Heche has "a mess of psychological problems?"

I believe that the term of art is hot mess.

As in:

DUDE #1: "Wow, that Lindsay Lohan is one hot mess!"

DUDE #2: "Word."

DUDE #1: "But you know that you'd, ah, inflict corporal punishment on her anyways."

DUDE #2: "Word."

sabril said...

I agree, the main problem with lesbians is that they are so angry and unpleasant. (Interestingly, gay men tend to be a lot more likable as people.)

It's interesting that gay men are able to have platonic girlfriend type relationships with straight girls while at the same time lesbians are not able to have platonic best buddies type relationships with straight men.

We've all met girls who are "one of the guys," i.e. they tend to have male friends. But these girls are usually straight girls who prefer to do without all the backstabbing, cattiness, flakiness and drama that goes with female friendships.

Anonymous said...

Two of the last three girls I dated had a lesbian GF at one point. I find it hilarious how both said the same thing, "dating women is terrible and bitches be crazy." They were also really pissed that they didn't want sex when they wanted it and made sex so damn complicated.

Anonymous said...

I agree that the only true lesbians are the masculine butch ones. The others are just playing until they end up with a man and children.

josh said...

I have a theory about this which is as follows:Lesbians dont have sex with each other because they are not attracted to each other.Lesbians are attracted to women,not ugly,nasty,freakish proto-women who look like ugly men.In most cases women are NOT attracted to lesbians,so theyre stuck with one another.Occasionally an attractive woman will hook up with a lesbian,and you wil get a jealous controlling '"man" in love with a put upon and not quite trusted woman" relationship. (NOTE:I had my chance to, you might say,"poach" a pretty,sweet girl form the nest of a hardworking,severe-faced lesbian. But alas I was still mulling this over when the two moved away.)Lesbian-woman relationships are fraught with violence. Guess who's the attacker? The same loudmouth who will excoriate beta male husbands for their "culture of rape" etc! But in the more typical 2 lesbian affair,after a few cursory probes down south--usually when drunk or high on God knows what,(huffing gasoline,meth?)--they give up the comedy and settle down to their lives of domestic bliss and "political activism",and writing garbage like the piece in question, and watching womens sports and writing articles about Title IX and how we still have so much farther to go and also expressing outrage about the Talibans treatment of women,we really need to get on that and fix it,and what a staggering job Hillary Clinton is doing as Secretary of Whatever.Uhm...have I made myself clear?

Kylie said...

"'Lesbian bed death' - Definitely nothing to with bieng found pink and stiff in the morning."

Right. Being found pink and stiff in the morning is another condition altogether, affecting only the male anatomy, as far as I know.

"Lesbianism wasn't sexual, it wasn't even lesbianism a hundred years ago. They called it a Boston marriage."

Not exactly. It was two women living together and pooling financial resources; it may or may not have included sexual relations between them. A hundred years ago, women's opportunities to manage their own money o9r even to appear in public without a male to protect them were very circumscribed. Two women together, though, could establish a household and travel together without exciting the same degree of societal disapproval that a lone woman doing those things would.

If you read contemporaneous accounts of women's lives in the 19th century, you find women who were related or close friends often shared beds when traveling or visiting. I gather there was a fair amount of cuddling and embracing. Given the level of ignorance about sexual relations between men and women as well as women's lower sex drives, it's not surprising that some women preferred same-sex cuddling to marital relations.

Kylie said...

"Is somebody implying that Ann Heche has 'a mess of psychological problems?'"

Not "has", "is".

I'll never forget her promoting that turkey of a movie she made with Harrison Ford. She gushed that "What woman wouldn't want to be stranded on an island with Harrison Ford?" and I thought, "Your former sex partner, for one".

What an idiot wind.

irishman said...

I am a fanny bandit myself perhaps this is the best way to explain it.

Sex is multiplication. Men are whole numbers. Women are fractions. Multiply a whole number by a fraction and you get a smaller number than the man's but larger than the women's. Sound familiar breeders?

Multiply fractions and you'll get an infintisimal number. This is why the dykes run out of steam.

Multiply whole numbers and you get an even bigger number.

I'm 25. I'm no Bel Ami model nut let me tell you folks...

the way I'm going it's going to fall off by the time I'm 30.

Anonymous said...

So is Lesbianism now the modern 'nunnery'? And what is the male equivalent?

Paul Mendez said...

How many gays and lesbians are actually interested in marriage (a LTR relationship par excellence?)

IMHO, essentially none. The current push for homosexual marriage is driven by 2 goals:

1) To make homosexuality more acceptable by re-branding it from a perversion to just another option in a wide spectrum of "lifestyles."

2) To gain access to the same legal and financial benefits society offers to married couples.

Not long ago, homosexual leaders denied they wanted to marry or adopt children:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Qs24_eEug

Paul Mendez said...

Right after college, I worked with a lesbian. She and some of her 20-something, unattached lesbian friends rented a beach house for the week.

One of the beach house guests was new to the group and had only recently decided she was a lesbian. She spent the whole week topless and joking about orgies.

Not only did nobody take her up on her offer, but they all decided she was a disgusting sex-freak, that she had ruined their vacation, and that they never wanted to socialize with her again.

Anonymous said...

Makes sense. Carpet gets musty and old after awhile. Malodorous too.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...

And the connection is...?

Hillary Clinton is rumored to be lesbian."

Based on what?

Yeah, it's women who are catty bitches. Yep, sure it is.

Truth said...

Uh oh, Part XIII

(You know you wanna copy and paste; you just KNOW you do!)

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/zimmerman-witness-sexual-molestation-160900334.html

Anonymous said...

I like this emphasis on lesbians, Steve. Keep it up.

More Steve on lesbians:

Susan Sontag's Fame: Why?

On the Internet, Everyone Knows You're A Lesbian

Hot lesbian Syrian martyr blogger turns out to be 40-year-old white American guy

josh said...

Re irishman and "the way I am going its going to fall off by...30." And the OTHER end? Whats going to happen there,lol?

Anonymous said...

As soon as they are married, lickity split, they give up sex. Funny.

Mathematician said...

Sex is multiplication. Men are whole numbers. Women are fractions. Multiply a whole number by a fraction and you get a smaller number than the man's but larger than the women's. Sound familiar breeders?

Men are real numbers; women are imaginary numbers. The product, not surprisingly, is complex.

Anonymous said...

"Lesbians typically have a female attitude towards sex, just as gay men typically have a male attitude towards sex."

which contradicts Steve's "why lesbians aren't gay" list.

"And what is the male equivalent?"

gaming nerds, MLP bronies(the ones who don't have sex with their playthings)?

"Based on what?"

Ms. Portman's testimony

"bisexual women have higher sex drives on average than straight women do."

LMAO

Mathematician said...

I meant to say "sum" not "product".

Anonymous said...

No more than 10% of gays and lesbians want to marry, based on cohabiting and marriage rates where gay marriage is legal (the 10% is a ceiling, many countries have rates more like 3-5% of all gays marrying or cohabiting, appears to be higher mostly in American states with legal gay marriage.)

Anonymous said...

This gay guy is getting "married" (well, civil partner'd) in the next few months. Admittedly, he's only doing it to get his boyfriend a visa. And despite being pretty well behaved, we aren't fully committed to monogamy either. 'Phobes, feel free to leave congratulations.

pat said...

Someone asked my opinion about lesbians. I spend all my time reading and writing about homosexuality in men but I know very little about lesbians.

I once hired a Data Base Administrator who was attractive woman but who turned out to be a lesbian with an agenda. I came to hate her. That's about it for personal experience. Sorry.

My impression is that there is a spectrum of female capacity for sexual enjoyment. Normal vanilla women are in the middle. Lesbians seem to have less sex joy and submissive women have much, much more.

Typically a submissive woman with the right dominant man will have twenty orgasms and ejaculate. If you entertain submissive women you have to change the sheets a lot.

Albertosaurus

Anonymous said...

'This gay guy is getting 'married' (well, civil partner'd) in the next few months. Admittedly, he's only doing it to get his boyfriend a visa. And despite being pretty well behaved, we aren't fully committed to monogamy either."

Is this your coy way of saying you'll spend a belated honeymoon at next year's Folsom Street Fair?

Kylie said...

I was the anonymous who made the comment at 7/17/2012 2:17 PM.
Google has me signed in and I forgot to sign out of that and sign in as "Kylie".

Anonymous said...

Is this your coy way of saying you'll spend a belated honeymoon at next year's Folsom Street Fair?

Thanks for the suggestion. When I lived in San Francisco, the only people I knew who went to Folsom were straight and into bondage.

Anonymous said...

"You were lied to by your Penthouse magazines"

I'm not so sure. My limited personal experience is that bisexual women are the female equivalent of homosexual men in terms of promiscuity.

The interesting bit is how this ties into Cochran's germ theory. Unless i'm missing something for it to make sense the germ must lead to promiscuity and/or sexual practises conducive to transmission.

If so then lesbians, for the reasons you describe, wouldn't fit the bill, although in my (limited) experience bisexual women would.

So i'm thinking if the germ theory has any truth to it there'd have to a chimera type element too - not neccessarily exactly so but related to testosterone in the womb or something - with the germ theory as a second element.

This would tie into another possible aspect - also based purely on limited and anecdotal evidence - which is that while most gay men seem to be attracted to other gay men there seems to be a segment who are only really attracted to straight men. If that's not just a product of my imagination they would be the male chimera version.

If the above is correct then female bisexuality and promiscuity will rise dramatically as a result of the mainstreaming of **** sex through porn.

Anonymous said...

Also, just thought, that might mean sleeping with bisexual women could make you gay - which is kind of funny.

Anonymous said...

If so then lesbians, for the reasons you describe, wouldn't fit the bill, although in my (limited) experience bisexual women would.

My gut feeling: Lesbianism is the result of sexual abuse, especially at the hands of fathers, uncles, and other older male relatives.

That would explain the hatred that nearly all lesbians / feminists have towards men, especially powerful "patrarchical" men. And their general resentful "non-gay" nature. Lesbians also make a big thing about being lesbian, and being women, and base their tribal attachments on that rather than nation or religion. It seems like they can trust only other lesbians and other man-hating women.

I'm not quite sure why abuse doesn't product woman-hating gay men in the same way. Perhaps because male-on-male or even female-on-male childhood sexual abuse is rarer? Or maybe the victims become communists or other political extremists instead.

Eric said...

For if only a tiny minority of them are interested in marriage, then that suggests that legalized gay/lesbian marriage is probably not a great idea, especially considering the potential negative effects of it.

Actually what it suggests to me is if only a tiny number are interested, whether or not they can legally get married is irrelevant to society at large.

ben tillman said...

It suggests nothing of the sort. The number of couples that take advantage of the law is of little importance. The problem is the message that same-sex "marriage" is somehow equal to real marriage.

Anonymous said...

for a lot of girls, it's just about doing something taboo and "naughty".

i think the novelty has simply worn off. being a lesbian no longer automatically makes you "cool" or "unique", and that of course was always the main appeal.