November 26, 2012

Dogwhistling and the Asian vote

David Weigel writes in Slate:
Charles Murray Whiffs on Asians 
The grand master of the Bell Curve is used to liberals pointing and sputtering at his conclusions. He typically pre-empts this by burying them with research -- research they, the sort of people who believe that human evolution happened but that human biodiversity is a myth, sure have not done. 
So this piece on why Asian voters went so heavily for the Democrats is a head-scratcher. Where's the data?

Murray's essay concludes:
And yet something has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive, despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth. I propose that the explanation is simple. Those are not the themes that define the Republican Party in the public mind. Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate. In the public mind, except among Republicans, that image is taken for reality.

Meanwhile, Judge Richard A. Posner writes on why Asians vote Democratic:
Jews are an even wealthier American ethnic group than Asian Americans, and they also have strong family values and are highly educated, are they are more prominent in business and government than Asian Americans even though they are an even smaller percentage of the American population (2 percent versus 6 percent). No longer are they newcomers. They have arrived! (Milton Friedman couldn’t understand why they weren’t all Republicans.) Yet Jews gave 69 percent of their votes to Obama in this past election, not far short of the Asian-American percentage, and this despite the fact that the Republican Party is more supportive of the current Israeli government than the Democratic Party is. 
Jewish voting behavior is further evidence for the expressive theory of voting. For obvious reasons, Jews have an acute sensitivity to discrimination; this may explain their continuing affinity for liberal policies, which does not seem to be in their economic self-interest. Furthermore, historically anti-Semitism in the United States was private rather than governmental; for example, government agencies employed Jewish lawyers in great number at a time when Jews found it hard to get jobs in leading law firms. Big government was a friend, and apparently the friendship is still reciprocated. And this may be a factor in Asian-American voting as well, for it is the government that decides whom to allow to immigrate, and although until a few decades ago our immigration laws discriminated strongly against Asians, they no longer do.

My theory is that voting Republican expresses an aspiration to belong to the core of America, while voting Democrat expresses either that you are in the fringe or so well ensconced in the core that you think it's cool and edgy to vote like you are in the fringe.

Obama basically ran a campaign of anti-white male dogwhistling. Immediately after the election was over, the stone got flipped over in all the touchdown dances in the press and the ugliness lying beneath exposed itself.

106 comments:

Anonymous said...

The answer is close to what you said.

The democrats are the "Anti-White-Guy" party. This attracts an overwhelming majoirity of people who are not white guys (i.e., non-whites of all kinds, and white women who are not married to a white guy). It also attracts a certain percentage of liberal white guys who are embarassed that they are, in fact, white guys (call them SWPLs for lack of a better term).

Asians are overwhelmingly economically conservative and personally socially conservative. They are keenly aware that they are not white guys, however. So they vote "anti-white-guy".

It really is as simple as this.

Prophet said...

I see a lot of puzzlement on the Right as to why the Asian vote was even more lopsidely democratic than even the Latino vote.

Honestly, I think Charles Murray is onto something but he didn't quite flush out his ideas. Republicans are the de facto Southern white Christian party. Plain and simple. Sure, Republicans can complain that they are shown in a negative light in the MSM, but Republicans are pretty much a southern white Christian party. In fact, the Republican party panders to southern white Christians like nothing else.

As such, minorities (including Jews) feel unwelcome in the party regardless of how much Republicans try protest that they are a "big tent party." Sorry, but it just ain't so.

Anonymous said...

"pointing and sputtering"

Used against liberals, by a Slate writer.

Where did Weigle get that? I've only seen it in places like Sailer and VDare.

Are our memes leaking out? Will they have an effect?

Robert Hume

Steve Sailer said...

Shhhhhhhh ...

Whiskey said...

Steve -- This is so wrong:

"My theory is that voting Republican expresses an aspiration to belong to the core of America, while voting Democrat expresses either that you are in the fringe or so well ensconced in the core that you think it's cool and edgy to vote like you are in the fringe.

Obama basically ran a campaign of anti-white male dogwhistling. Immediately after the election was over, the stone got flipped over and the ugliness lying beneath exposed itself."
----------------
Nope. WRONG WRONG WRONG. I can see why you made your error. You belong to the dead past (to be fair so do I). You think that America's center, the core, the arrived part, belongs to straight White married people. Wrong, wrong... WRONG!

The center, the core of America, belongs to Black people. To Lesbians. To what Roissy/Heartiste have called "manboobs." To Hispanics, and single White women riding the carousel of sex with Alphas. THAT is the center, the core, the establishment.

Who is worth over $1 billion not despite but BECAUSE she's a poorly closeted lesbian of color? Who has her own daytime talk show BECAUSE not despite being some blonde Lesbian. Who is more core, more central, more important: Rush Limbaugh or Rachel Maddux? Who matters more, open Lesbian Jillian Michaels, who adopted a Black baby boy with her "partner" or some married White guy like Mitt Romney?

Which is an insult, and which a compliment? White guy or Lesbian? Who does SNL mock, or Jay Leno, or Conan O'Brien, or Jimmy Kimmel, or David Letterman? Rush or Rachel Maddux?

Anti-White-Male stuff goes over like GANGBUSTERS. Manboob White guys and most White women can't get enough of it. Most White women would prefer an actual Alpha male vs. the White guys they're stuck with. So that's part of it. Another is the natural testosterone/darkness/dominance advantage that Black guys have, see all those White women fantasizing about him. [Satoshi Kanazawa's work establishing that Black women are the least desirable, and Black men the most desirable, of all the races by all races, is key here.]

Straight White Married guys are the weirdos. The atavistic, primitive, and fringe relics of the past. The present and future belong to Single Mother White women, gays, lesbians, Blacks (particularly magical ones like "Our Lord and Savior" Obama) and Hispanics. That's the center of America.

You see it on TV every night. Go ahead, watch. You'll see.

Anonymous said...

Prophet...

http://twitter.com/heartiste/statuses/266291262380974081

"The day will soon come when the ruling class won't have white, married churchgoers to kick around anymore... and they'll regret it."

Sorry Prophet, "southernism" has absolutely nothing to do with it... it's anti-Whites not anti-Southerners.

Anonymous said...

Well, actually the Orange County Register admitted that none of the exile polls on asians were in Orange County or San Diego mainly from Los Angeles and the Bay area so no wonder asians supported Obama 79 percent since white vote in LA and the Bay Area also supported Obama more than the other part of the state. The REgister shown in cities with a lot of asians like Garden Grove or Irvine Obama won was 53 percent. Garden Grove asians might have voted less for Obama than that figure since the town has a lot of hispanics and GG has Vietnamise and Koreans. In Irvine the white vote might have brought down the obama percent of 53 since they are more chinese but a Korean Conservative Republican won over a liberal Dem white in Irvine. Westminster mainly Vietnamise Obama won 49 to 48 for Romney very close.

Hunsdon said...

Prophet said: "flush out"

Hunsdon corrected: "Flesh out."

Anonymous said...

"Another is the natural testosterone/darkness/dominance advantage that Black guys have, see all those White women fantasizing about him. "

Go go match.com... and on every profile you will see every women's racial preference. At least when it comes to marriage, white chicks do not want black guys at all.

I hate to break it to you Whiskey, but white women know they're princesses and they want to have little princess babies.

beowulf said...

Wasn't Murray's first wife Asian?
I imagine he has more firsthand knowledge of Asian-American community than, say, the African-American one.

Although I like the stone metaphor (in a 1956 Stevenson speech that JK Galbraith wrote, "You roll back the stones, and you find slithering things. That is the world of Richard Nixon"), I think the wonder of it is not that so many affluent Asians vote against their economic interest, its that so many working class Southern whites vote against theirs.
http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/blog_obama_white_vote.jpg

That 12% to 22% gap between how Southern whites vote and how NE, Midwest, Western and Northeastern whites vote--- whatever Republican message it is that gains excess Southern votes is likely the same message that loses excess Asian and Jewish votes.

Anonymous said...

I don't think of the GOP as WHite Southern but as rural. If you look at counties rural counties even in Blue states went for ROmeny and Urban areas even in the South somtimes went for Obama because of minorities.

Anonymous said...

So Jews voted 69% for Obama. Big deal, as if the percentage of Jews voting one way or another had any influence on the percentage of politicians who support Israel. That one would be closer to 100%.

Gilbert Ratchet said...

"the stone got flipped over in all the touchdown dances"

mix that metaphor!!

a very knowing American said...

There is some evidence that guys with more upper body strength take more pugnacious/hawkish positions on various public issues. (Evolutionary psychologist Aaron Sell has done a lot of this research.) Could something as simple as physical differences be influential in Asian and Jewish political stances? Do East Asian and Jewish guys get tired and resentful of constantly being around bigger white gentiles? Are (say) John Milius or David Mamet more physically imposing and more likely to throw a punch than most left-wrong Jews? Does some of the appeal of Mexican immigration in particular to Jews and Asians boil down simply to making Americans smaller on average?

Call it the David versus Goliath theory of ethnic politics. It can't be the whole story. Is it part of the story?

Steve Sailer said...

"Does some of the appeal of Mexican immigration in particular to Jews and Asians boil down simply to making Americans smaller on average?"

That's so crazy it just might be true ...

Dahlia said...

Steve,

I'd love for you to address Ron Unz's "The Myth of American Meritocracy". It's about Ivy League selections and what they mean for the elites and America. Ron Unz even believes that stagnating middle-class wages going back to the early 70s have much to do with this new elite.

There is a lot of data looked at in a novel way.

One finding that is novel is that Jewish high achievement at the high-school level has cratered from the heyday of the 70s and 80s and has fallen off the cliff since 2000. Yet, Jewish enrollment into the Ivy League has gone up. Unz deals with the Half-Sigma type arguments about "leadership qualities".
High ability high school student breakdown for 2011:
Jewish: 6%
Non-Jewish White: 66.5%
Asian: 26.5%
His case for what constitutes high ability is profoundly strong looking at
U.S. Math Olympiad teams; College Putnam Math winners; U.S. Physics Olympiad winners; Science Olympiad winners, Siemens Science AP winners; Science Talent Search finalists (Westinghouse)

What does it have to do with the subject at hand? The tenor of all these articles and ruminations seems to mirror exactly the ethos of the elites at these Ivy League institutions according to Unz: non-Jewish white and Christian is bad, very bad. Asian isn't so hot, either.

The ideal society, I suspect, is most fully realized at Harvard (Avg 2007-2011): 26% Jewish, 18% Non-Jewish White, 16% Asian, 12% unknown, with Hispanics and Blacks making up the rest.
***
Everyone will love that he revisits his theory of IQ malleability, but I swear it's brief :)


JI said...

Was talking with a Chinese acquaintance after the election, and he said he wishes Obama could have as much power as Mao because then he could get things done. I don't think most cultures have an appreciation for the idea of limited government. At least, they have no history of anything like it, so it seems alien to them.

Reptilicus said...

Razib answered this question pretty authoritatively a few weeks back:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/11/religion-determines-politics-for-asian-americans/

It turns out that Asian evangelicals and Catholics are actually more conservative than their white counterparts, but because Asians are so irreligious as a whole they skew Democratic.

Orthodox said...

It's the urban/rural split. What's the Obama/Romney geographic win %, by county?

This battle is as old as American politics. Urban vs rural. That's why the secession movement can have real power, even supposedly blue states like Illinois and New York might see 80% of their territory break off and join a secession movement. In fact, there is a small secession movement in NY, to have the upstate portion breakaway from NYC and call itself West New York.

Anonymous said...

" the GOP is in trouble across the electoral board because it has become identified in the public mind with social conservatism"

Actually the GOP is becoming identified with the military police state, endless wars, inflation, extremely old people, corruption, destroying America's position in the world, ...

Maybe a discussion of the Bush Jr presidency is a good starting point as to what the problem the Rs have.

So why are White people supporting the Republicans? That might be a better question.

Remnant said...

Even before I got to Steve's last paragraph, what came to mind on reading this was Joe Sobran's distinction between Nativism and Alienism.

Regardless of how much of the slapdash Democratic coalition does not (theoretically) share common interests with Asians, the fact is that Asians will as a default choose the party of Alienism.

Sobran on Alienism: "Alienism: a prejudice in favor of the alien, the marginal, the dispossesed, the eccentric, reaching an extreme in the attempt to "build a new society" by destroying the basic institutions of the native."

Read that and then look at Steve's chart from the other day about the Romney's vote percentages from various niche groups.

That Asians in America are urban dwellers seals the deal. Look at the county-by-county election map: tiny urban dots are blue; everywhere else is red.

How could Asians possibly identify with and vote for the party of the countryside?

Randy's Karate Show said...

"Obama basically ran a campaign of anti-white male dogwhistling. Immediately after the election was over, the stone got flipped over in all the touchdown dances in the press and the ugliness lying beneath exposed itself."

Correction- he ran an anti-white male Presidency.

Truth said...

Oh, Shit! Why hasn't anyone mentioned the huge news? You guys got what you wanted; Barak stepped down today!

Anonymous said...

America is a carcass. American politics today is predators fighting to feed on what's left.

Anonymous said...

The term Asian is kind of meaningless if you look at all the different cultures. Actually Hispanic is also overly broad.

Why do Jews have their own demographic slice, there are not that many? They are also getting more culturally diverse with the huge growth of Orthodox Jews.

Here in Brooklyn many of the Eastern Europeans have the Benefit Card so I assume they get food stamps. I suspect they vote like similar Mexicans, although many are distantly Jewish so they might vote R due to some kind of Israel related logic. On the other hand many Eastern European white guys are actually Muslim, so watch your mouth if you are in Brooklyn.

Jakob Cole said...

""pointing and sputtering"

Used against liberals, by a Slate writer.

Where did Weigle get that? I've only seen it in places like Sailer and VDare.

Are our memes leaking out? Will they have an effect?"

- Exactly. I thought Weigel's article, especially the first half, read like a Sailer column.

I guess if Sailer is banished from polite society by the elites, then the columnists within polite society are free to plagarize ideas to their heart's content, knowing fully well that their liberal comrades and bosses won't dare admit to having read Sailer- thus their actions go unpunished. Willful blindness is one of the core traits of liberals.

Steve Sailer said...

It's not plagiarism.

DYork said...

...Obama basically ran a campaign of anti-white male dogwhistling.

Kind of explains the liberal media/Obama administration/Congressional black caucus response to Benghazi.

Four White men butchered, not a single Trayvon Martin among them.

And two were Navy SEALs, now the iconic symbol of White Masculinity.

It was almost a human sacrifice to the Gods of the new age.

Maguro said...

Asians tend to live in liberal areas and like to fit in. That probably explains most of it.

Thomas V. said...

We know why the Scots-Irish hate Republicans- because their first and strongest hatred is of Christianity, and the Republicans are the party of Christians.


Blacks first and strongest hatred is of Whites. And Republicans are the Party of Whites, despite how much posturing and screwing over their base is done.

Asians go along with the dominant cultural leadership- a trait that protects them in their home countries. When in Rome (or Modern day America...)

What needs to be done is to re-assert the natural white male dominance in the world, let the minorities fight amongst themselves over table scraps of what's leftover- their natural place in the world.







peterike said...

Voting Democrat is NOT against Asian economic interests. Far from it.

The obsessive focus on college admissions (which, by the way, Asians continue to do spectacularly well at) hides the huge benefits Asians get from Affirmative Action hiring, small business loans and so on.

Have you ever been to the IT department of any government agency, Fed, State or Local? It's Asians all the way down (with some Russians tossed in for diversity). How many Asian companies benefit from government contracts?

Asians even make expert use of local level freebies like school lunches and rental subsidies. When you run a mostly cash storefront, your "legal" income is whatever you want it to be. Meaning, you draw from the government teat.

Asians are also quite adept at getting Sainted Grandmother and Grandfather onto Social Security and other programs.

How many Asian doctors and nurses do you think get hired by government? How many Asians work in universities, hot-beds of Affirmative Action? How many Asian scientists are hired to fill diversity goals at large corporations? Asians LOVE affirmative action, as well they should. It opens doors to them everywhere.

How adept are Asians are scamming Medicare and Medicaid? (answer: extremely adept).

Asians are incredibly corrupt in the way that the West traditionally views corruption. Of course Asians themselves don't see it as corrupt or morally wrong, it's just the way you do business. In this way they manage to be prolific at gaming the system at every possible opportunity.

Asians love big government and big government programs because they rip them off with great resourcefulness.

Raoul Z. said...

"Truth said...

Oh, Shit! Why hasn't anyone mentioned the huge news? You guys got what you wanted; Barak stepped down today!"


- Wrong Barack, bro....

DirtyTricks said...

Federal contracting and business development programs favor Asians.
See below.
This is from Wikipedia's entry on SBA's 8(a)Business Development Program.

The 8(a) Business Development Program assists in the development of small businesses owned and operated by individuals who are socially and economically disadvantaged, such as women and minorities. The following ethnic groups are classified as eligible: Black Americans; Hispanic Americans; Native Americans (American Indians, Eskimos, Aleuts, or Native Hawaiians); Asian Pacific Americans (persons with origins from Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, Japan, China (including Hong Kong), Taiwan, Laos, Cambodia (Kampuchea), Vietnam, Korea, The Philippines, U.S. Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (Republic of Palau), Republic of the Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, Samoa, Macao, Fiji, Tonga, Kiribati, Tuvalu, or Nauru); Subcontinent Asian Americans (persons with origins from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, the Maldives Islands or Nepal).

C.B.Liddell said...

The only explanation that makes sense is the one I wrote myself.

http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/district-of-corruption/why-asians-vote-democrat/

Anonymous said...

Very true, East Asians get minority preferences for government contracts. How much sense does that make?

Hunsdon said...

Truth, yes, brother, our secret wish is to see Joe Biden in the White House.

But yeah, otherwise, pretty good.

Arthur A. Chester said...

If I understand him rightly (and I'm willing to grant that I may not), Steve Sailer has advocated the Republican Party becoming the Caucasian Party (and standing up for the interests of Generic White America). To some extent, he's already won in that (as I've mentioned in comments elsewhere on this blog), the RP is considered by non-whites to be exactly that, and this is the reason that people like Jews and Asians vote overwhelmingly Democratic, despite apparent economic reasons to do the oppose. They self-identify as "non-white" (just as blacks and Hispanics do), and so vote for what they take to be the "non-white party" (again, just as the blacks and Hispanics do).

Since SS is also fond of implicit jokes, the irony is that the supposedly White People's Party does not in fact represent the interests of plain old white people. Not only that, but a big chunk of actual whites (hipsters, educated leftists, those who reject "traditional" virtues) self-consciously identify against themselves, and so likewise vote for the "non-white party." This "defection", when combined with the monolithic voting of the actual non-whites for the non-white party, is enough to guarantee the victory of the standard bearer of that party, America's first half-Kenyan president.

To some extent, this is the opposite of the leftist conundrum of why Kansas votes wrong. In that case, lower-class Americans are thought to be acting against their ostensible economic self-interst in voting Republican (and throwing away the goodies that the Democrats supposedly are offering them). One answer might be that they don't view "self-interst" in the same way that the Democrats present it (i.e., "here are the state goodies we' re offering you if you vote for us"). Perhaps they are voting for the Caucasian Party.

With the Jews and Asians, on the other hand, the issue is why don't they go for all the policies advocated by the Republican Party that seemingly are in their interest? Maybe they too "don't see it that way," b/c they view the matter differently (and basically the same way as the folks in Kansas): the RP is for "white people," and they ain't white.

So the joke may be on Sailer. He's got all the disadvantages of his Caucasian Party, and it still can't win an election!

Anonymous said...

The fact that we're even talking about "Asians" - shows how absurd this whole discussion is.

Indians,SE Asians, East Asians, Filipinos are even more different than Turks, Spaniards, Germans and Scotsmen.

And what the hell does "socially conservative" mean? The vast majority of 'Asians' aren't Christians. They see nothing wrong with Abortion or even prostitution. And they don't care about "prayer in school" or "Gay Marriage" or "Gun rights". They think Pat Robertson is a complete weirdo.

And while "Asians" are law-abiding they don't give a damn if some Blacks want to kill some poor white or vice-versa. What does that have to do with THEM?

Asian-Americans, like Mexican-Americans aren't white Americans with a little "ethnic" coloring.

Dahlia said...

"Voting Democrat is NOT against Asian economic interests. Far from it.

The obsessive focus on college admissions (which, by the way, Asians continue to do spectacularly well at) hides the huge benefits Asians get from Affirmative Action hiring, small business loans and so on."

No, they are penalized when it comes to college admissions, though not nearly as much as non-white Jews.

From Unz:
" ...with almost every year from 1995-2011 showing an Asian [Ivy League] enrollment within a single point of the 16.5 percent average, despite huge fluctuations in the number of applications."
He goes on to point out that this is especially strange given that the Asian population has doubled since 1993.
_____________________________

Unz brought up the collapse of the Soviet Union when talking about the state of the United States today.

Something to think about given all the talk about Republicans being too socially conservative...

Quoting Moynihan on the flatness of American incomes(1970-1985), Unz adds that it has "extended nearly three times as long, and has also been combined with numerous social, moral, and foreign policy disasters."

Unz believes this is because the tiny elite is at odds with Americans on culture, religion, ethnicity, and ideology *and its domination has continued despite the collapse of the "supposedly meritocratic justification"*. He believes they are being propped up by the major media, et al., but will come to lose its effectiveness "much as did the similar propaganda organs of the Soviet state."

jody said...

"It's the urban/rural split. What's the Obama/Romney geographic win %, by county?"

i used to think this explained it far better. look at the US election by county. it's a sea of red, punctuated by a few counties where the big cities are. where the democrat machine rules.

now i realize it's just about race. race explains the sea of red. i used to think, get outside the cities and you get outside the democrat machine. but actually it's, you get outside the democrat machine because you got outside the city. drive 10 miles out of any city and it gets white fast.

but once enough non-whites are in a rural county, it flips too. south texas is mostly rural, undeveloped...and blue. and the blue is creeping up north slowly and steadily.

of course the race explanation does not hold for every county but it's reliable in general. there are exceptions but it works for most of them.

Truth said...

"- Wrong Barack, bro...."

You don't say?

Anonymous said...

If you mentioned that a group of non-Christian, highly educated people with liberal views on social issues who heavily concentrated in big urban areas vote Democratic, no one would bat an eyelash.

Republicans chose to be the party of Southern evangelicals. That's cool. There are *a lot* of Southern evangelical voters out there. But if you cater to that demographic, you are obviously not going to appeal to affluent, educated urbanites. At least not without a level of political skill that is lacking from the current Republican crop.

Anonymous said...

Jews don't "feel welcome" anywhere because most of them are neurotic and uncomfortable in their own skin.

White Hispanic Wanker said...

As a White Hispanic I am just glad I can get all that affirmative action.

Its better than being black and almost as good as being Jewish.

Raul Sotomayer.

Dahlia said...

"My theory is that voting Republican expresses an aspiration to belong to the core of America, while voting Democrat expresses either that you are in the fringe or so well ensconced in the core that you think it's cool and edgy to vote like you are in the fringe."

I do think this is mostly true.

Don't forget Agnostic's findings about cycles, though.

We've forgotten, but a nickname for the GOP is the "law and order" party. In addition, people turn more to the transcendental, to each other, getting right with God, wanting tougher crime measures, etc. during rising crime times.

In other words, rising crime times are when we elect Republicans as presidents.

jody said...

the fact remains that if the republicans dropped every issue except the economy, and ruthlessly, vigorously punished their own politicians in a draconian manner, in the same vicious way in which the RNC pulverized ron paul for taking the wrong (not neocon approved) position on some issues,

all the people who didn't vote for the republicans before, still wouldn't vote for them now. roissy is 100% correct about this.

most of the people voting democrat are voting AGAINST european men. period. it's not issue based. they hate european men. end of discussion.

the only people who vote democrat who don't hate european men are about half of the euro american voters who vote democrat. so 40% of the euro american vote goes to the democrat, and half of it, 20%, is out of pure self interest.

they aren't voting FOR whoever the democrat candidate is. they are voting for their benefits, salaries, wages, vacation days, voting to keep the easy money and above market wage compensation going. union members, single women, single mothers, government employees, teachers, and various adjuncts and wards and flunkies of the increasing socialist state. these people straight up vote democrat today, yesterday, tomorrow, forever, and that's the extent of their thought process on the matter.

everybody else who votes democrat votes that way because they hate european men. liberal euro americans constitute the other 20% of the 40%. these people experience visceral disdain for conservative european men.

and of course all non-european groups vote against european men. mestizos, africans, the various asians, jews, and muslims vote overwhelmingly against them.

Anonymous said...

America is a carcass. American politics today is predators fighting to feed on what's left.

Not predators, parasites and scavengers.

Benjamin Espen said...

Is voting Republican an aspiration to belong to the core of America or a statement that you belong to the core of America? Here I'm thinking of guys like my brother, a Bud-drinking Teamster who votes Republican precisely because it is the party of guys like him, who drink beer, shoot guns, and hate NAFTA [that last part doesn't fit the Republican party, but what can you do?].

I've never met an Asian who identified with guys like my brother. Culturally, they just seem to prefer the SWPLs. Maybe it's geography. Maybe it is that liberalism is a status marker now. Whatever it is, the Republican party is deeply unattractive.

Dahlia said...

My apologies,
The Unz article, "The Myth of American Meritocracy" doesn't appear to be available on TAC nor Unz's site. It's in the new December issue of the print edition of TAC.

jody said...

hatred is a lot stronger motivation than maybe sorta kinda voting in your own self interest. if you vote republican in hopes you might get something good to happen like striking down affirmative action, don't hold your breath. you can pretty much assume affirmative action is here for good.

but, if you vote democrat in hopes they'll continue smashing white guys over the head, bashing their brains in, and moving the united states strongly towards a brazilian demographic with south african politics, well then, voting democrat really pays off. that's something which democrats actually get done. they actually enact that policy.

you can bring in all your friends and set up a little mini united nations and run all your scams and demographically take over a town or even a city. that's a better end result than a moderate incovenience like high taxes on your productive business, or affirmative action against your academic acumen.

"Oh, well, yeah it's true, I might have to pay higher taxes, and I might get discriminated against and have my kids discriminated against by various government agencies and universities, but there's almost zero chance of any action really happening on that front. On the other hand, god, do I hate white men. I so badly want them gone."

and that's it. the decision on how to vote is easy. it's been easy to understand this stuff for a while. it's what drives africans, who are voting against their own self interests economically by going so hard for obama. they hate white men so much they'd rather have nothing than have mitt romney guide them to moderate success and wealth.

jody said...

sorry, it just plain has nothing to do with the republican platform. they can change it anyway they want, the new, year 2012 television media will steer things back to the narrative. "Republicans are poo poo dum dum heads and racists. DON'T vote for them."

we already saw some of this in 2012. the media was defining the republicans (inaccurately) instead of just covering them, reporting the news. whenever the media wanted to portray the republicans in a certain way they just did, they would simply make up stuff via confederates, cronies, or quacks. or they would take a single sentence one minor guy somewhere said, and repeat it daily for months, and project it onto romney.

it didn't matter how far away romney ran away from an issue, they'd follow him and corner him and get him to utter a single sound byte and then it would be "See, we told you so!" any moronic stuff any democrat ever said is never projected on obama, but romney has to be the goal tender for every republican in the US. if a random guy anywhere said something dumb, that's it, that would be portrayed as the republican's NATIONAL platform on the matter.

Anonymous said...

I basically agree with Half Sigma on this. What we are seeing is wedge issue politics.

Gay marriage, abortion and religion were all used to drive a wedge between the republicans and voters. Not to mention the overall theme that all these wedge issues paint the republicans as the party of white religous types.

If I were to choose a path forward for the repubs I think they should drive all the wedge issues back to state politics. Policies on abortion, recreational drugs, blah blah will all be decided at a state level. Whats my opinion on abortion, my position is it should be decided on a state by state basis - my focus is more on the economy.

People love the idea that they can decide these policies at a state level. Look how excited all the smokers were about Washington and Colorado re marijuana.

Anonymous said...

"peterike said...

Voting Democrat is NOT against Asian economic interests. Far from it.

Asians love big government and big government programs because they rip them off with great resourcefulness."

I worked in a Chinese-American community for thirty years...most of the small businesses have two sets of books for the IRS... they are not into paying taxes.

Everything else you said in your comment is spot and comports with my personal experience.

I have stories that would shock you ...corruption is a way of life and they see nothing wrong with it.

Everybody should read your comment twice in order to get a clue.

People on this blog are totally clueless about Asians and the Asian communities.

Udolpho.com said...

The answer to Murray's riddle is that these are all outgroups, and the Republican party is (sort of) an ingroup party. Conservative vs. liberal doesn't have much to do with it. Minority groups experience anxiety over their minority status, and vote for the party that offers to protect them. It's not very complicated. Sailer more or less concludes this.

Anonymous said...

Enough with the supposed anti white rhetoric.

Firstly there are a huge number of reasons to vote for Obama over Romney no matter what race you are just based on choosing the lesser of two evils.

Second. There are other reasons to vote or Obama even if it is against your economic interest. Like to keep the white isteve crowd in check.

Anonymous said...

White men historically have controlled, or are seen as controlling, the land and resources that others (Mongolians, Indians, Jews, Hispanics, etc.) wish to take for themselves.

It really is as simple as that.

Anonymous said...

Does some of the appeal of Mexican immigration in particular to Jews and Asians boil down simply to making Americans smaller on average?

No, not simply. It is about making Europeans Americans smaller on average and to diluting the unique genius of the European people in other ways as well.

Anonymous said...

What is being played out is no more and no less than tribal warfare for control of the resources of North America. Whites have stood in the way of access to North America by other groups. So other groups have banded together to pry the continent away from Whites using all manner of strategies, some subtle, some blatantly obvious.

TGGP said...

Razib already explained this. Asians are less Christian than they used to be (this is a result of more recent immigration, to a certain extent). Hence, they are less Republican. Nikki Haley, Bobby Jindal and that Vietnamese congressman from Louisiana (I don't remember his name of if he's still in office, I think it was a rather blue district that flipped in 2010) are all Christians so it's not so weird for them to be Republicans.

Anonymous said...

"Unz brought up the collapse of the Soviet Union when talking about the state of the United States today.

...


Unz believes this is because the tiny elite is at odds with Americans on culture, religion, ethnicity, and ideology *and its domination has continued despite the collapse of the "supposedly meritocratic justification""



I think the radical-led 60s generation (along with significant numbers from earlier generations) simply got a lot of things flat-out wrong, so wrong they can never recover, they can only be replaced.

If they hadn't rapidly taken over a few key institutions, in particular the judiciary, but also the media and academia, (later the bowls of government) they would have just been your average lets-impress-the-girls-and-take-over-the-tribe 20-young-somethings.

They pulled it off not because they were right or particularly skilled, but because of special circumstances: the Cold War (nuclear armageddon, we're all going to die!), including Korean and Vietnam; history's most rapid and large expansion of near-universal co-ed university education, with many inexperienced young people thrown together in high-pressure circumstances in which they found themselves stressed and coping poorly; an elite upper class that was willing to abandon average Americans to position itself as the morally superior world-elite facing down communism; and lack of coherent alternatives. Just "conserving" was so... boring.

Whitey on the March said...

"Second. There are other reasons to vote or Obama even if it is against your economic interest. Like to keep the white isteve crowd in check."

lawl

Anonymous said...

"""""
If I understand him rightly (and I'm willing to grant that I may not), Steve Sailer has advocated the Republican Party becoming the Caucasian Party (and standing up for the interests of Generic White America).
....
So the joke may be on Sailer. He's got all the disadvantages of his Caucasian Party, and it still can't win an election!

"""""

I completely agree... though I sympathize with him.

Steve, please give up on trying to influence the GOP. It's too late for the Sailer Strategy and it's too late for "Citizenism".

Steve, your enemy is party-based representative democracy itself. The Sailer strategy can't work as long as people put their identities with political parties and if political parties benefit from certain immigration strategies. You shouldn't be trying to win in this system, you should work to refute it and undermine it.

So what is the way forward?

The only way forward is a transnational MacIntyrian(as in Alasdair) and Gramscian European Right. We need to at once pull away from to undermine the current system and infiltrate the system to control what happens during the various crises. Considering the "convergence of catastrophes" we're on, they'd be plenty of times to act.

Citizenism isn't the answer... Anti-Citizenism is the answer.

Anonymous said...

@9:15 Anon

Yes but why was the elite so willing to throw us under the bus? The radical 60s generation had a lot of help from the progressives who came before them on the inside as professors, lawyers, judges, bureaucrats, etc.

@9:34 Anon

Yes, exactly. We have to recognize the situation we are in and act accordingly. Traditional political means may buy us a little time, but not much. In the medium to long term, working within the system is simply not an option due to "demographics".

I bet there is a Chinese or German word for "plugging in while also unplugging". That's what we need to do.

Jack said...

"Gay marriage, abortion and religion were all used to drive a wedge between the republicans and voters. Not to mention the overall theme that all these wedge issues paint the republicans as the party of white religous types."

Wedge social issues help Republicans, not Democrats. The reason they helped Obama is because Romney refused to take the fight to Obama on these issues. 75% of Americans support the Arizona immigration law but Romney backed away from it. Obama's abortion position, the most leftwing position imaginable on the issue, is not anywhere close to majority support. Yet Romney allowed Obama to put him on the defensive. Gay marriage, while becoming more popular, barely passed in very liberal states. Romney refused to take the fight to Obama on these issues, allowing Obama to fire up his leftist base.

Republicans win when they clearly and intelligently articulate our principles and when they drive wedges within the Democratic groups, especially on cultural issues.

ben tillman said...

Sure, Republicans can complain that they are shown in a negative light in the MSM, but Republicans are pretty much a southern white Christian party. In fact, the Republican party panders to southern white Christians like nothing else.

As such, minorities (including Jews) feel unwelcome in the party regardless of how much Republicans try protest that they are a "big tent party." Sorry, but it just ain't so.


In other words, these people know that they are incompatible with Republicans and should not be living in the same country with them, but instead of returning to the countries they came from or forming their own countries, they prefer to use the political process to oppress Republicans.

In other words, your theory is that 80% of Asians are bad people.

Anonymous said...

Maybe part of the reason is Asian respect for authority. My main hands-on education of the Asian way comes from the carry out place where I get my chop suey.

The guy there--who was in his early 70s and came to America via Canada in the 70s--said he voted Republican all his life but after Bush II, it was no more Republican for him. He said he never saw any leader as foolish, stupid, and pathetic as Bush II, and it was all the more shocking since he was leader of the most powerful nation on Earth. If that was the best GOP could give the nation, I mean what the hell..
He said he especially liked Obama's image as a leader.

If Asians are natural followers, then they despise pathetic leaders and admire powerful leaders--and Obama knew how to exude power. Bush II looked so wimpy and weak, so pathetic. But what made it so comical was he pretended to be a tough-talking cowboy, but the darn fool could barely speak. I mean imagine Bush II in a western where he had to talk tough to some varmints.

Maybe all these Asian folks grew up seeing America as the Land of the Great White Man. But when they saw what has become of the white man in Bush II--and then the silly antics of Palin--, maybe Asian folks lost all respect in the white man.

And I don't think Chinese not much like Romney bash China. If Romney did it from a position of power, maybe Asian folks at least respect that. But it looked like Romney picked on China from the position of weakness, i.e. since he couldn't rag on Jews, blacks, gays, and Mexicans, he chose the easy target of the Chinese. He acted tough but only to hide his cowardice.

as said...

My theory is that voting Republican expresses an aspiration to belong to the core of America...

Great point.

Something else is Asian-Ams who vote Democrat say stuff like the Republican is a white, Christian party. It is, and the question is, are you at peace with that fact? And are you comfortable with the fact that America is a white, Christian country and not whatever it is that we are?

Asian-Ams also say things like, "Republicans don't like people like us..." Again the question is, do you find something like that normal and understandable or unconscionable?

as said...

My theory is that voting Republican expresses an aspiration to belong to the core of America...

Another question for Asian-Ams is, is it okay for Americans/Republicans to limit immigration of people like us or does you think it's unconscionable.


DaveinHackensack said...

"Actually the GOP is becoming identified with the military police state, endless wars, inflation, extremely old people, corruption, destroying America's position in the world..."

Nah. If that stuff were really important to voters, they wouldn't have reelected Obama. Obama kept the TSA groping grannies, kept Guantanamo open, expanded drone assassinations, tripled the number of troops in Afghanistan (and tripled the number of US KIA there), und so weiter. Most of the left didn't care about any of that. They just used it as a cudgel against "Bush Jr.".

Ex Submarine Officer said...

hatred is a lot stronger motivation than maybe sorta kinda voting in your own self interest. if you vote republican in hopes you might get something good to happen like striking down affirmative action, don't hold your breath. you can pretty much assume affirmative action is here for good.

but, if you vote democrat in hopes they'll continue smashing white guys over the head, bashing their brains in, and moving the united states strongly towards a brazilian demographic with south african politics, well then, voting democrat really pays off. that's something which democrats actually get done. they actually enact that policy.


This is what I tell all my friends and is why, despite being conservative, bristle at being described as a Republican.

Thirty or so years ago, homosexual marriage, PC tyranny, and so forth would have been considered far more radical by mainstream America than rolling back Roe, cutting welfare, abolishing Dept. of Ed, all of which were national and accepted Republican policies for years and years.

But the Democrats got, and continue to get, their job done.

The Republican party, despite decades of sending huge numbers of them to Washington, hasn't gotten anything done.

The only possible bright spot is gun laws, but that wasn't the willing doing of the Republicans, they had this shoved down their throats by focused single interest groups that weren't scared to get the job done.

There is no hope for the Republicans or even conservative politics any longer in the USA. All that remains is to see what comes next on the collectivist express and perhaps moderate it a bit.

At best, that is the pinnacle of Republican/conservative accomplishment over the past 3 decades and they are never going to be as strong as they were in those years because of the demographic changes in the US.

We are in the brave new future now. Me, I think this secession stuff has legs. It is still just a ripple in the pond, but each successive occurence of this subject is going to get stronger and stronger in the coming years.

It takes a lot less folks to secede than it does to gain national power. Heck, plenty of people are already effectively seceding to the extent they can on an individual basis (e.g, Bowling Alone trend, death of civic/community life, etc)

Anonymous said...

"Yes but why was the elite so willing to throw us under the bus?"

Post-colonalism wasn't post-colonalism... the western elite started colonizing their own countries as a way to fool everyone while they conquered the world.

Anonymous said...

"In other words, rising crime times are when we elect Republicans as presidents"

This is true, and with CA scheduled to drop thousands off the probation rolls and let thousands more out of prison, expect the crime rate to skyrocket here. It'll be interesting to see if the media can cover up the mayhem. They'll surely try.

ben tillman said...

To some extent, this is the opposite of the leftist conundrum of why Kansas votes wrong. In that case, lower-class Americans are thought to be acting against their ostensible economic self-interst in voting Republican....

Frank obviously doesn't know what a "self" is. Hint: "self" and "person" are not synonyms. If you know what a "self" is, you know that you can vote against your personal economic interest while voting for your self-interest.

If that's too oblique, I'll state it more plainly: biology tells us that a human "self" may consist of more than one person.

Simon in London said...

"research they, the sort of people who believe that human evolution happened but that human biodiversity is a myth, sure have not done."

Wow - Mr Weigel is a brave fellow!

Just because something is a logical contradiction does not mean it's not taboo to say it!

DaveinHackensack said...

"There is some evidence that guys with more upper body strength take more pugnacious/hawkish positions on various public issues. (Evolutionary psychologist Aaron Sell has done a lot of this research.) Could something as simple as physical differences be influential in Asian and Jewish political stances? Do East Asian and Jewish guys get tired and resentful of constantly being around bigger white gentiles?"

There's a fitness social network based out of New York called Fitocracy, which was founded by two Asian guys. I've met the CEO, and we follow each other on Twitter. Judging by the iron he lifts, he's got plenty of upper body (and lower body) strength. From his Twitter feed, I know he's an Obama fan. But he's also a Schwarzenegger fan -- he and some of his team lined up to get Arnold's autograph and buy a bunch of copies of his autobiography when Arnold did a book signing at a store in SoHo.

Small sample size there, to be sure, but I think it raises an interesting question: why would an Obama-loving Asian American also be a fan of Arnold? I don't think it's because he resents white gentiles, since Arnold is of course one (and a Republican, to boot). I think it's because Arnold is cool, smart, funny, successful, and he's also socially liberal. He's not associated with any of the bible-thumping stuff Charles Murray mentioned.

ben tillman said...

Asian-Ams also say things like, "Republicans don't like people like us..." Again the question is, do you find something like that normal and understandable or unconscionable?

It's unconscionable. They picked a fight by entering our territory without our permission. They may have done so under a misapprehension, but upon learning that they had not in fact received a legitimate invitation, what is their response? Are they conciliatory? No, they vote 80% for Obama, which is just another way of saying, "All your base are belong to us!!!"

ben tillman said...

Furthermore, historically anti-Semitism in the United States was private rather than governmental; for example, government agencies employed Jewish lawyers in great number at a time when Jews found it hard to get jobs in leading law firms. Big government was a friend, and apparently the friendship is still reciprocated. And this may be a factor in Asian-American voting as well, for it is the government that decides whom to allow to immigrate, and although until a few decades ago our immigration laws discriminated strongly against Asians, they no longer do.

In other words, non-Whites are recruited to become part of the governing coalition.

Anonymous said...

It's far, far simpler than that.

Basically it's all down to tribalism.
Deep down, Asians still see their residence on US soil precarious, they are still plagued with fear and self-doubt about their very safety and integrity on US soil, their position as 'outsiders', and they see white Americans somehow as the 'owners' of the soil, the power people upon whose suffereance they depend and they are group which they fully don't trust, having a lurking fear that whites might just turn nasty one day and make life difficult for them.
Somehow, they see the Republican Party being the political wing of white America (which is rather ironic, since they've done f*ck all for white Americans).
At the same time they see the Democrats as 'their people' - a party that is ideologically committed to defend them to the hilt come waht may, hardcore reliable defenders of their interests (ie the unmolested right to live on US soil).
This is a common pattern with left parties and immigrants throughout the western world.
The notion of defending non-white immigrants far, far trumps anything to do with money or 'conservative values'.

Anonymous said...

Everyone should copy and paste peterike's brief summary of the schemes East and South Asians perpetuate. Few people look into these schemes and how they undermine society.

Anonymous said...

DaveinHackensack said...

""""""

There's a fitness social network based out of New York called Fitocracy, which was founded by two Asian guys. I've met the CEO, and we follow each other on Twitter. Judging by the iron he lifts, he's got plenty of upper body (and lower body) strength. From his Twitter feed, I know he's an Obama fan. But he's also a Schwarzenegger fan -- he and some of his team lined up to get Arnold's autograph and buy a bunch of copies of his autobiography when Arnold did a book signing at a store in SoHo.

Small sample size there, to be sure, but I think it raises an interesting question: why would an Obama-loving Asian American also be a fan of Arnold? I don't think it's because he resents white gentiles, since Arnold is of course one (and a Republican, to boot). I think it's because Arnold is cool, smart, funny, successful, and he's also socially liberal. He's not associated with any of the bible-thumping stuff Charles Murray mentioned.
"""""

Dude, you seriously have the worst gaydar ever.

DaveinHackensack said...

"Dude, you seriously have the worst gaydar ever."

LOL.

Anonymous said...

On the other hand many Eastern European white guys are actually Muslim, so watch your mouth if you are in Brooklyn.

Other than Albanians/Bosnians who would that be?

Anonymous said...

Gay marriage, abortion and religion were all used to drive a wedge between the republicans and voters. Not to mention the overall theme that all these wedge issues paint the republicans as the party of white religous types.

These are only a wedge to white voters. Non-whites vote Dem anyway and will largely swallow these policies.

There was a lot of talk here the other day about how hispanic voters support gay marriage (59%?). I think that only means they are prepared to accept it. They certainly dont care about it and they know implicitly it doesnt affect them, they arent going to be seeing many of their own getting into gay marriages, its those crazy white folks playing silly games amongst themselves.

If the Dems suddenly dropped support for gay marriage then surely they would alienate those 59% of hispanics who support it? Of course we know thats not what would happen at all,they would still vote Dem and we would never hear the issue discussed again.

Londoner said...

Weigel 'went there' wrt liberals believing in evolution but not human biodiversity? Isn't that kind of notable? Isn't the mere mention of HBD notable? Sounds like Weigel reads this blog so he can report back to Journolist (2.0) about what the enemy is saying, but has found himself agreeing with what he reads here. Search your feelings, you know it to be true!

Anonymous said...

Mr. Sailer, because of comment threads like this one you are my favourite blogger. A heartfelt thank you for all your work from freedom-loving Switzerland.

Anonymous said...

For all the sperging out on stats here, maybe the fact is simply that Romney was a warmed over version of what Obama was offering.

The Republicans ran a candidate who appealed to some mythic base that only seems to exist in the minds of Republican 'strategists'. A lot of people held their nose and voted for Romney, a lot more stayed home and didn't see a point to having the Republicans go back to sleep for four years while Romney shoved through the same agenda Obama would have done.

Anonymous said...

It's far, far simpler than that.

Basically it's all down to tribalism.
Deep down, Asians still see their residence on US soil precarious, they are still plagued with fear and self-doubt about their very safety and integrity on US soil, their position as 'outsiders', and they see white Americans somehow as the 'owners' of the soil, the power people upon whose suffereance they depend and they are group which they fully don't trust, having a lurking fear that whites might just turn nasty one day and make life difficult for them.
Somehow, they see the Republican Party being the political wing of white America (which is rather ironic, since they've done f*ck all for white Americans).
At the same time they see the Democrats as 'their people' - a party that is ideologically committed to defend them to the hilt come waht may, hardcore reliable defenders of their interests (ie the unmolested right to live on US soil).


This guy mostly gets it. But the mentality is actually more aggressive than what we normally associate with a mere a desire to "be defended." "Defense" in this circumstance is actually overt and covert tribal warfare and entails measures designed to weaken the perceived enemy.

Anonymous said...

Does some of the appeal of Mexican immigration in particular to Jews and Asians boil down simply to making Americans smaller on average?

The transfers of Mexican and other populations into the United States weakens ethnic Americans in myriad ways, not only by the diminishment of their physical size and strength.

Confuse-us said...

"...as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists."

1. Confucian underpinning of Asian culture. For 1000s of yrs, the people of China--and other Confucian nations--admired and respected the scholar/intellectual above all else. Smart-and-educated was good, dumb-and-uneducated was bad.
This view has survived even in the modern world. Especially as Asians have been deficient in succeeding in sports, music, and etc, they've clung to education and smartiness. So, they are bound to respect and follow the group in society that is most associated with intellectualism, and in America, most intellectuals, universities, media, and etc are liberal, leftist, gay, feminist, and/or Jewish. So, even if though the current liberal intellectual culture has nothing to with the values of Confucianism, the structural mindset of Confucianism still lingers and favors the 'literati' over the dummies. As long as Asians see the world in terms of liberal/Jewish/gay = smart AND conservative/Christian/white = dumb, many Asians--smart/educated ones and those aspiring to be smart/educated--will go with the liberals.
It's like the structuralist mind-set of puritanism still lingers among Northeastern wasps. Though they are into 'diversity' and secular political correctness, they are more puritanically committed to those ideals than other groups. Hispanics and blacks are for 'diversity' for the sake 'gimme what's mine'--for tribal than purist idealist reasons--whereas as neo-puritanical secular wasps of the NE are ideologically committed to 'diversity' just as powerfully as their forebears had been devoted to purity of faith.

Whatever his faults, Bill Buckley did a great service to conservatism by intellectually engaging with the Left. He didn't just rant against them but argued with them, and put forth intelligent/intellectual arguments of his own.
And when the old liberal dogma of the post-war era began to lose its luster, many smart people were won over the neo-conservatism, which in its early days, offered much that was admirable. But something happened to conservative culture. It got Limbaugh-ized, Coulterized, Hannitized, Southparkized, and etc.
If Asians respect 'smart elites', then they couldn't have been too thrilled with Bush II and Palin.

Confuse-us said...

2. Even so, one could argue that Confucianist mind-set should turn Asians to the right for moral reasons. Confucianism, even as it elevated the scholar, was essentially a philosophy of virtue and ethics than of intellectual competition.
Given the Christian Right's devotion to morality and faith, shouldn't Asians with Confucian mind-set prefer the Right as the party of social morality?
Perhaps, and that may explain why Christianity is spreading throughout China and why some Koreans have become major converts to Christianity.

But neo-liberalism has become heavily moralized. To use gays as an example, a lot of gays in the 60s and 70s used to act wild and crazy, and 'gay pride' used to be premised on violating and transgressing against social/moral norms. Back then, many Asians would have been turned off by so much happening on the liberal side.

But that was then and this is now. Today, gays and other such groups have moralized their decadence and freakery. So, the message is no longer, "I'm proud to be gay cuz I'm wild and crazy", but "I'm proud to be gay because we gays are even more clean-cut, dignified, and successful than non-gays, especially those uncouth vulgar fat-assed white conservatives with no taste."
So, if what once seemed like decadent liberalism turned off many moralistic people in the past, the new morality has sanctified people like gays as angels. And so, the Confucian mind-set is likely to support this new morality. It's BS morality, but it has the look and feel of morality, and most people take to stuff for their surface appearance.
Not long ago, an idea such as 'gay marriage' would have been deemed as immoral, as it indeed is. Today, it is part of the new morality.

3. Though Confucianist mind-set may be operative among East Asians, non-East Asians live by what might be called Imelda-ism. Filos are more into pop culture than intellectual/moral culture, and guess what goes by the name of pop culture these days. It's Negroes, gays, and hos romping around, and so that stuff has become 'cool' and 'hip'.
Some Asians have mind-sets whereas Asians like Filos have butt-sets or ass-sets.

Anonymous said...

This battle is as old as American politics. Urban vs rural.

Not only America, it's at the heart of all politics going back to Rome at least. Republicanism is the system a mostly rural population and democracy (or ochlocracy) is urban.

Jack Amok said...

Basically it's all down to tribalism...Somehow, they see the Republican Party being the political wing of white America (which is rather ironic, since they've done f*ck all for white Americans).
At the same time they see the Democrats as 'their people' - a party that is ideologically committed to defend them to the hilt come waht may, hardcore reliable defenders of their interests...


I think this is correct, but it is a huge, disasterous mistake for Asians to make.

Damn fools.

The white's who think most along tribal lines frankly are in the Democrat party. They're the ones most accustomed to thinking in terms of groups. The folks who belong to the GOP are the ones who think about the larger society first. That's why the GOP has had such a hard time actually representing the interests of their constituents, they are the party of The Bigger Picture. But they're being undermined by the party of Thieves Conspiring Together.

So ultimately, the whites that are most likely to be bigotted agaisnt Asians are the ones they are voting for in the Democrat party.

Also, the Democrat looting machine is running out of cash. Their ability to deliver to all their special interest groups is about to go splat. When that happens, they will go about trying to rip each other off. No honor among theives after all.

So, the brilliant Asians have basically thrown in with, and empowered, the folks who will go on the next anti-asian pogrom.

Way to go guys.

Mad Machine said...

"Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists."

But why is Bible-Thumping worse than Rules-for-Radicals-Thumping? And how it it worse than rap culture?
And aren't there lots of Bible thumpers--though one might call them Bible humpers--in the black community? Black preachers talk a lot of crazy shit--Wright for example. So, why is it wrong for whites to thump Bibles but it's okay for wild crazy blacks to hump Bibles? And most blacks and Hispanics are intellectually even lower than most white Bible thumpers. So, if Asians like smartness, why would they side with the party of dumb trashy blacks and moronic brown tomato pickers?
Perhaps, it's because the Democratic Party, even as it panders to blacks and browns, is firmly controlled at the top by secular Jews, gays, and the intellectual class. Since Asians hang around the smart set, they can just rub shoulders with smart liberals and ignore the dummy blacks, browns, and blue collar white trash.
Also, even if blacks and browns are seen as dumb, they have an excuse to be dumb, i.e. the history of oppression has kept them on the bottom, and so, it is the responsibility of smart folks to help them.

In contrast, the GOP leadership seems to have a good number of Bible-thumping dummies. The dummies are not just at the bottom but at the top. Also, there is no historical excuse for white dumminess since whites were not 'oppressed'. White dumminess is therefore willful on the right, and that makes it eeeeeeevil.

As for Asians being off-put by 'anti-gay' position of the GOP, I only wish it were true. GOP has been bending over on this issue all across America. Conservatives oppose the gay agenda but don't really fight back.

But more crucially, why would Asians care about the gay issue? What in Asian culture or background makes Asian-Americans pro-gay? Nothing as far as I'm concerned. All Asian societies are far more 'anti-gay' than any Western nation. So, it appears many Asian-Americans have been made pro-gay because of Western values.

Since people are influenced by what they see and hear in the media and school, Murray should ask the question: WHO CONTROLS THE MEDIA AND WHAT KIND OF GARBAGE ARE THEY SPEWING AND WHY? But then, the answer would be.. Eskimos, and that wouldn't be convenient since AEI is run by Eskimos.

The fact is Asian-Americans think and feel the way they do because they were turned that way, and so, we need to ask, 'who turned them that way?' But Murray will not go there.

If conservatives ran the media, they could caricature liberals and Democrats as decadent, trashy, foul, pampered, obscene, irreverent, resentful, subversive, hateful and contemptuous, and demagogic.
And if such were the pervasive message spread by media, education, and entertainment, I'll bet most Asians would be pro-Republican.

So, it's foolish to just ask why Asians did this or that. We need to ask WHO MADE Asians to do this or that. After all, more than most other peoples, Asians have a herd mentality. If sheep move in one area, it makes more sense to identify the shepherd than wonder why the sheep have thought on their own to move that way.

Anonymous said...

"Gays moralized"

Are you insane? The media just refuses to report on men pissing on other men at venues like the Folsom Street Fair. If anything NAMBLA will start being allowed to march again in the pride parades.

Anonymous said...

Confuse-us said...

Finally, an intelligent post on this topic.

Cail Corishev said...

"Somehow, they see the Republican Party being the political wing of white America (which is rather ironic, since they've done f*ck all for white Americans)."

Exactly. The GOP does everything it can to avoid being the party of whites, especially middle-American, Christian, traditional whites. Immigration amnesties, enterprise zones (remember Jack Kemp?), NCLB, and dozens of other programs they've introduced or jumped on board with, have all been intended to prove that the GOP is not the white party.

When they do stand up for a position that whites agree with, like mild restrictions on abortion, they only do so if they can wrap it in anti-racism -- abortion kills a far higher percentage of black babies than white ones. Affirmative action is bad (or used to be, for a while) because it hurts the beneficiaries in vague ways, not because whites get the shaft. Ditto welfare: it's bad for the recipients; the fact that someone has to pay for it doesn't come up.

And none of this helps one bit. After decades of pandering, more than half the population still sees the GOP as the party of and about white guys, of two types: Rich Uncle Pennybags tycoons who hang out in exclusive country clubs wearing monocles and polishing their stacks of gold, and Southern and rural fundamentalist Bible-thumpers who have a Confederate flag in the garage and probably a swastika on something somewhere.

That's the GOP to most people, and they're not joking. Yeah, if you challenged them on it, most would admit that there are probably Republicans who aren't like that. But that caricature is pretty much how they see the core of the party: a bunch of Nazi robber barons who keep their real intentions under wraps.

That being the case, is there anything the GOP can do about it? If there are people who have watched the GOP pander and amnesty and try to out-Democrat the Democrats for their entire lives, and still think that caricature is the reality, then what are the odds that tweaking or caving in on one more issue is going to reach them? No, as long as the media frames them that way, that's how most people are going to see them, and any new pandering will be fit into that same frame.

So the only hope is to go around the media somehow. Force of personality can do that somewhat, but you can't sit around waiting for another Reagan. They can't get sideways government funding for politicking like the Dems could for ACORN and such. All that's left is volunteer grass-roots efforts at the local level, reaching people one-by-one, and that's hard, expensive work. It also requires that you adopt some positions that appeal to the average voter, like defending American jobs, and it remains to be seen whether the GOP is willing to take that position.

I don't think there's much hope, but if there is any, it won't be found by trying to beat the Democrat/NGO/media/academia behemoth at its own game of bread and circuses, or by shifting a bit left or right on a few issues.

Anonymous said...

If that's too oblique, I'll state it more plainly: biology tells us that a human "self" may consist of more than one person.

In that case, the "persons" aren't actually "persons". They're cells that are part of an actual person that is the "self".

Anonymous said...

How many Asian doctors and nurses do you think get hired by government? How many Asians work in universities, hot-beds of Affirmative Action? How many Asian scientists are hired to fill diversity goals at large corporations? Asians LOVE affirmative action, as well they should. It opens doors to them everywhere.

Is there data on this? Do Asians get counted as diversity hires at corporations?

Anonymous said...

And most blacks and Hispanics are intellectually even lower than most white Bible thumpers.

When some of my rabidly liberal friends start going off about moronic Southerners, lower class whites, etc, I tell them, wow, you must really hate blacks and mexicans, because they are even stupider and more ridden with social pathologies.

Anonymous said...

This quote from the good shepherd crystallizes much of isteve reader sentiments IMO:

" Joseph Palmi (mafia boss): Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?

Edward Wilson (OSS/CIA Counter-intelligence chief): The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting. "

Democrats are the party of those that are made to feel as 'visitors'.

unix said...

"Is there data on this? Do Asians get counted as diversity hires at corporations?"

Is the Pope Catholic?

eli said...

"'ve never met an Asian who identified with guys like my brother. Culturally, they just seem to prefer the SWPLs. Maybe it's geography. Maybe it is that liberalism is a status marker now. Whatever it is, the Republican party is deeply unattractive.":

Really? Your brother, if he exists and is not a generic example, is a type. But Republicans, in my experience (I'm Independent and really loathe pol parties) are actually likely to be far more "attractive", well dressed, poised, confident. Dems (white ones anyway) are more diffident. But what was really interesting was what my "liberal" Jewish-American Indian-government worker in the State Dept. said about the Democratic appointees. They are HORRIBLE. Arrogant, incompetent -- much like the appointer. The Republican appointees in the complex were, by contrast, loveley to work with, according to her, polite and professional. She hates the Democrat appointees so much and so liked the Republicans, that she did not vote for BO this time. I think she voted for the 3rd party.
But Democrat appointees suck big time.
Obama didn't win. The vote was stolen; the puppet masters decided he would be here another 4 yrs. As far as the lunatic Asian who wanted Obama to have as much power as Mao--he doesn't have brains. He is contrived by others. Don't Asians have enough brains to see that? If they don't they are not as smart as people think. One thing I know, if BO had that much power--and only whites could give it--it would be the only thing to bring whites to their senses. The idea of the white race, who invented this country and just about everything that makes it run, being "ruled" by a black puppet is just too bizarre. He "rules" at their pleasure. When they get tired, they can pull down that house of cards,and all the 75-85 IQ blacks and hispanics won't be able to reconstruct it.

Truth said...

" The Republican appointees in the complex were, by contrast, loveley to work with, according to her, polite and professional. She hates the Democrat appointees so much and so liked the Republicans, that she did not vote for BO this time. I think she voted for the 3rd party..."

LOL, still wouldn't vote for Mittens with all of that goodwill, huh? Now that's a mandate! Damn that one had me howling, And hey thanks for being one of the few honest relayers of an anecdote here.

Suerti Sim said...

Once again "Truth" demonstrates that he fails to understand the point of an anecdote.

Skeptical Economist said...

beowulf,

Murray's first wife was Asian and they had two kids together. Here is a quote from Murray

"I was also laughing because the mother of my first two children was half Thai and all Chinese, and it was all so familiar. The subject heading of the email attaching the Chua article to my elder two daughters was “Bring back memories?” My own archetypal memory is when my eldest daughter, then perhaps eight years old, came home with her first Maryland standardized test scores, showing that she was at the 99th percentile in reading and the 93rd percentile in math. Her mother’s first words—the very first—were “What’s wrong with the math?”"

David said...

>[The Dubya Disaster referred to.] So why are White people supporting the Republicans? That might be a better question.<

They aren't. A number of them in the Mid-West were noticeably non est at the voting booths Nov. 6. No one on Fox has satisfactorily explained why. Or will.

Meanwhile, let's bomb Iran, open the borders, bust unions, raise taxes on the middle class ("austerity for thee," said the neocon, "but not for me"), send in the drones, and, above all, maintain our sharp differences from the other party.