February 28, 2013

Should the GOP be more beta?

Bryan Caplan articulates the conventional wisdom: the GOP doesn't win South Asian voters because it doesn't bow down enough to South Asians. For example, Republican leaders should put the kibosh on anybody associated with the Republican Party who doesn't feel fully respectful toward "arranged marriages."

I suggest the opposite is more true. As Ben Franklin pointed out, the way to get people to like you more is not to do them favors (which just makes them resent your ability to do them favors), but to get them to do you favors. Bryan, however, assumes that self-assertion in politics to be a risky strategy, and that it's better for political parties to try to get what they want by being nice.

50 comments:

Anonymous said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Soldiers_(book)

Anonymous said...

Steve, you know that the GOP is dead, how about a honest analysis of America's future?

john marzan said...

you certainly won't get anybody's vote if you disrespect them.

but asian muslims are a lost cause for the GOP in the immediate future.

Cail Corishev said...

Good grief. Republicans are far more respectful toward traditions like "arranged marriage" than Democrats, but that doesn't seem to be hurting the Dems any with these voters.

When did it become acceptable for politicians to openly pander to groups of voters anyway? Didn't we used to claim that we wanted them to care about the nation, or at least pretend to have that as their focus, even if they pandered to some lobbying groups in the background? When did it become okay for them to say, "We're going to do X for group A and Y for group B and so on until we count 51% of the votes"?

My guess is that's still not okay, and most voters still want a party that tries to work for the good of the whole, and this is just another naked attempt to sucker the GOP.

SFG said...

The candidate's supposed to act alpha. (That's what did Al Gore in.) The party's supposed to offer people stuff. But for the GOP to really attract nonwhites, it'd lose too many white votes. Waste of time. Wait for Obama to screw up, and cut immigration so you have a future. Oh wait, the rich people wouldn't like that.

DCThrowback said...

This goes along with my internal hypothesis that a hypothetical GOP "re-branding" would be one that is aspirational and exclusive, not "big-tent" and "beta".

Successful, respected people are those who are GOP. The free sh*t party, the party who stands for nothing except taking from the successful and respected, them's the other guys.

Anonymous said...

The GOP already use the Franklin effect to great er, effect. It's how they get white voters to turn out.

Malcolm P. said...

Who gives a f**k about the Indian vote? They make up 1% of the US and like other Asians, will vote Dem regardless of whether or not it is against their interests because they think that is how all the 'cool' white people vote. Far wiser to return to traditional conservative policies and consolidate your white base as in the Sailer strategy.

That being said, of course the GOP will bend over for them...

TGGP said...

Razib already explained asian voting patterns as being driven by religion, with immigration decreasing the percentage of the asian population which is Christian. Your suggestions are helpful though as they would decrease the salience of race & hispanic ethnicity.

You also should have pointed out that the gender gap just isn't that large, with the marriage gap far exceeding it. I think it's much more plausible that the GOP has a respect gap on the married-unmarried axis (with all the talk about families) than male-female. On the other hand, the Democrats also outwardly treat the nuclear family as normative.

nb said...

Yes Steve, but how do you get Indians to respect the Republican Party? I just posted this comment over at Caplan's blog:

" No Bryan, speaking as a S Asian Indian, I think you have it exactly backwards. Indians vote democrat not because democrats respect them, but because they respect democrats. The reason is that the democrats have successfully branded themselves as the party of high education, intelligence and status, while equally successfully branding the Republicans as the party of dumb-ass white trash. The Indian community in the US is heavily biased towards an upper-caste Brahmin background, people whose ancestors were the traditional clerical intelligentsia, which in modernity translates into a fanatical respect for education and IQ. These are people who would rather die than be identified with the Stupid Party."

To get respect from this lot Republicans would need to re-establish themselves as also a party of the high IQ and highly educated elites. I think that would be something highly useful for the Republicans to do anyway. Because even white proles secretly hanker to be ruled by their betters.

Anonymous said...

>>For example, Republican leaders should put the kibosh on anybody associated with the Republican Party who doesn't feel fully respectful toward "arranged marriages."

If Republicans really wanted to oppose gay marriage, they ought to valorise arranged marriages a little more, since they represent, culturally, pretty much the opposite pole to gay marriage. Once you give in to notions about marriage being principally a vehicle for the expression of individual romantic love, gay marriage becomes the obvious next step. It's only when your reference point is arranged marriage (or similar customs) that gay marriage becomes ludicrous.

Anonymous said...

As one British tabloid newspaper famously put it (after former Labour Party leader, Neil Kninnock, was photographed donning a Sikh turban at an ill-advised photo shoot), Bryan Caplan wants the Republicans to 'curry favor' with subcons by being obsequieos to them.
Caplan writes an awful lot of shit, and his inane idioicies always seem to surpass themselves, but the notion of the 'party of America' bowing, scraping and ass-licking to pick up a few piss poor votes from what is an alien and exotic ethny to most Americans really makes the skin creep.
Perhaps the word 'manliness' doesn't exist in Caplan's vocabulary.

Anonymous said...

What you Americans really need is a UKIP type political party.
Today is the day of the Eastleigh by-election in Britain (caused by the filanderings and duplicity of a LibDem MP, but that's another story), in which the expectation is that UKIP will do well.
Possibly, just possibly, UKIP might just replace the Tories as the right-wing party in British politics, and actually save the ethnic English from extinction (something the Tories have signally failed - or refused - to do). It is, llikely, therefore that the future bifurcation in British poltics will be between the immigrationist party (Labour) and the English nationalists (UKIP).
Tories must be secretly wetting their panties at the prospect of a UKIP roll.
Americans haven't seen the name of the game yet, and prbably never will.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

More beta?!

Is that even possible?

Thursday said...

Demanding respect doesn't mean being an egotistical dick. Caplan can't seem to tell the difference.

DYork said...

If you expect the single White ladies to vote for you you sure as hell better be more Beta.

Whats the alternative, "frankly my dear I don't give a dam"? Oh, swoon Alpha man is here. Goofy White guys might think that will work but the 2012 election was a beta male contest and Obama won it.

What have you done for me lately? What are you willing to give me? The voters asked and the Republicans said - we'll cut your taxes if you make over $200,000 a year and we'll cut government benefits for everybody else.

How about that?

And you wonder why so many people either didn't vote or voted Democrat.

Obviously, many voters are looking to the government to be their provider beta daddy/husband. And that number will increase as the country continues to vibrate with diversity.

Veracitor said...

Everybody wants the Repubs to pander to more pressure groups (or even pressure-less groups beloved of another pressure group, like illegal infiltrators) other than the actual voting majority of (despicable) "traditional Americans." None of that advice is friendly-- most of it is given in the spirit of sabotage by people who want the R's to lose.

The self-identified Asians, as people with great survival skills who find themselves a minority in America, purely and simply want to ingratiate themselves with the most powerful faction among the majority. Think of it as Stockholm Syndrome writ large. So long as the Dems rule the roost (as they pretty-well have since 1932) they can count on the Asians kissing up to them.

It may sound paradoxical (though it isn't), but the fastest way for the Repubs to pick up the Asians is to win the majority of the White vote and use that to obtain power.

However, the Republican Establishment will not do that-- see Codevilla's recent essay (he's not right about everything, but he's right about that).

Anonymous said...

Caplan is spectacularly obtuse as usual, but there are some excellent comments there, especially Doug's Hutu-Tutsi parable and Secret Asian Man's argument that the Dems represent traditionalism in the non-American sense.

Bostonian said...

Off-topic, but related to a previous Steve post about the declining number of whites in medical schools:

http://chronicle.com/article/In-Medical-Schools-New/137605
February 28, 2013
In Medical School's New Admissions Program, Mandarin Counts More Than MCAT Score
By Katherine Mangan
A sophomore English major who plans to study Mandarin but skip organic chemistry might seem an unlikely medical-school candidate, but next year, she could have a good shot at getting into the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai.

The New York school is introducing a flexible admissions program for half its incoming students, who will be able to skip the Medical College Admission Test, forgo traditional premed requirements, and be accepted in their sophomore year in college, as long as they maintain a 3.5 grade-point average through their senior year.

Proficiency in Mandarin or Spanish will be big pluses as the school seeks well-rounded students who can communicate with an ethnically diverse mix of patients. Traditional prerequisites like organic chemistry and physics will be replaced with courses like health-care policy and ethics, as well as clinical experience. Admitted students will also be encouraged to wait a year or two after college before enrolling at Mount Sinai, to work or pursue their academic interests.

Socially Extinct said...

The Republicans should consider adding canine stew to the White House's cafeteria menu as well. Kowtowing knows no limits!

Anonymous said...

Somehow I knew that was going to be Steve's response.

Anonymous said...

Compared to black people, white people are beta.

Anonymous said...

Handing over your territory to other men = beta

Open borders = beta said...

American men paying for Israeli men = beta

Anonymous said...

"As Ben Franklin pointed out, the way to get people to like you more is not to do them favors (which just makes them resent your ability to do them favors), but to get them to do you favors."

How true.

Risto

el supremo said...

Bryan Caplan and his fellow Asperger-y libertarian open border economists should remember how people like him get treated in the countries he wants to flood the US with migrants from.

You don't get to be a prominent economist in China, India, or Mexico by being compentent at your work but socially awkward and fond of irritating people with confrontational positions expressed without social tact. You rise to the top in economics by being a member of good standing of the right faction - competence is necessary but not sufficient.

Caplan's positions might destroy the traditonal US, but he doesn't realzie they also would kill off the professional prospects of people like him.

Anonymous said...

Bryan Caplan articulates the conventional wisdom: the GOP doesn't win South Asian voters because it doesn't bow down enough to South Asians.

The GOP should focus on winning American voters. How many ethnic Americans simply stayed home or voted third party because the GOP doesn't represent them?

You could galvanize the ethnic American voting block defending their interests:

(1) Oppose the immigrant invasion of their country.

(2) Prioritize American interests before those of the Zionist regime.

(3) Keep their boys and girls and elderly out of harm's way in the Middle East (rather than cleaning up after Israel) and at home (rather than sustaining blowback retaliation due to our complicity with Israel's supremacist agenda).

(4) Spending their tax dollars on Americans rather than on Israelis.

The above, done directly and unabashedly, would win elections.

Anonymous said...

the GOP doesn't win South Asian voters because it doesn't bow down enough to South Asians.

Why do South Asians get a vote in American elections? Isn't that what South Asian countries are for?

normann said...

I think the reason that people don't like unsolicited or unneeded favors is not so much that they resent the favor-doer's ability as the fact that the favor-doer has just forced them to recognize a liability (which is the favor-doer's asset) on their personal tit-for-tat balance sheet, an obligation that they might or might not feel like honoring. It's bad enough having to be "much obliged" when you need help, but it's simply galling when you don't. The exception - "favor banks" - proves the rule, since they arise among equals (like police officers) and depend on gossip to prevent cheating.

Anonymous said...

but asian muslims are a lost cause for the GOP in the immediate future.

Not if the GOP makes an about face from its pandering to the Zionist entity.

"Israel" aside, the GOP has a lot in common with Muslims: social conservatism, importance of family and children, gender roles. Muslims aren't even all that strident about opening America's borders. Those are a lot of core values to build an alliance around.

Anonymous said...

Interestingly, South Asians seem to be doing pretty good at reaching influential positions in Republican politics e.g. Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, Ramesh Ponnuru, Reihan Salam, etc., despite their general low support for Republicans.

This is similar to how the neocons hold prominent influence in Republican politics despite low support for Republicans from Jews in general.

Anonymous said...

Anyone with any idealism left should travel down to Eastleigh and campaign for UKIP.

Anonymous said...

Well, Republicans have a chance with Steve Choi in Irivne not South Asian but East Asian-Korean. Steve wants to built a library instead of wasting the money so much on the Great Park which Larry Agrian the Dmeocratic pin king did. If Steve does well, then the Republicans could pick up again with the Asian vote in OC.

Anonymous said...

Well, Laguna Beach Fogey lives in the OC where the wealthy still vote republican as a whole, granted LB is more liberal since there gays there. The Indians that buy property in Newport Coast or Newport Beach are surrounded by republicans granted some wealthy are Democratics. In the OC the poorer you are the more likely you will vote Dem except for the Westminster area which has a lot of anti-communists Vietnamise.

C. Van Carter said...

Libertarians know a lot about minority outreach.

RonMexico said...

The Rs could do as the Dems did post 1873 and deploy a secretive terrorist wing of their party to scare the bejesus out of all dark skinned folks and then have another wing of their party play the savior of those dark skinned folks. After 100 years everyone will have forgotten who the terrorist party was. Worked for Demoncrats.

Anonymous said...

"Bryan Caplan articulates the conventional wisdom: the GOP doesn't win South Asian voters because it doesn't bow down enough to South Asians."

Never mind south Asians. How come Jews don't go Republican though just about every Republican politician gets on his knees and prays for the Jews 24/7?

The fact is most non-whites respect powerful whites with pride and dignity. Every non-white person can see today that white conservatives are ignorant Creation-believing eggsuckers who play fetch for their Jewish masters.

Anonymous said...

"Israel" aside, the GOP has a lot in common with Muslims: social conservatism, importance of family and children, gender roles. Muslims aren't even all that strident about opening America's borders. Those are a lot of core values to build an alliance around.

It already happened, in the Cold War.

Anonymous said...

"Israel" aside, the GOP has a lot in common with Muslims: social conservatism, importance of family and children, gender roles. Muslims aren't even all that strident about opening America's borders. Those are a lot of core values to build an alliance around.

It already happened, in the Cold War.


Zionist Jews work very hard to make the West and Muslims enemies.

Reg Cæsar said...

Zionist Jews work very hard to make the West and Muslims enemies.

Not as hard as Mohammed did.

unassailerable logic said...

I wouldn't even know about this mousy academic Caplan, whom you seem to delight in using for a punching bag, but for seeing your comments on his last book--complimentary, IIRC--and having followed his occasional sad-sack appearances on your blog. However when he writes, "If someone like Steve ever becomes the most prominent Republican in the country, it would make Republicans far less popular with Democratic-leaning groups" it sounds both obviously correct and effectively understated, if a bit lacking the prevalent blogger spirit of fair play/backscratching. The GOP titans supposedly furtively reading your updates, Steve, must thank God every day for having nothing to do with you otherwise.

rec1man said...

50% of the Republican vote bank is Christian evangelical like Pat Robertson -

Indians vote per religion, not race. And among upper castes, conversion to Abrahamic religion, is grounds for outcasting

Pat Robertson attacks Hindus as 'demonic'

Hinduism Today July 1995

Evangelist Opposes Freedom of Religion, Says It's Time To Convert India and Wants to Keep Hinduism Out of US

By Valli J. Rajan, Pennsylvania

It's not that unusual for Pat Robertson's daily Christian TV show, the "700 Club," to portray other religions in less than a complimentary light. Still, I was shocked to see Robertson on his March 23th show label Hinduism as "demonic" and advocate keeping Hindus out of America.

The March 23rd episode details Robertson's conversion of some Hindu people of Rajahmundry in Andhra Pradesh, India, to the Christian religion. In the course of the show, Robertson makes shameful, unChristian accusations against the Hindu faith, the world's oldest religion. When contacted, Mr. Robertson's office told us he was "unavailable for comment."

To begin, Robertson's experiences in Rajahmundry are described by a narrator. The scene is of a poverty-stricken people, bathing in the river at the head of which rests a statue of Lord Siva. Water is pouring out of Siva's head and a snake is wrapped around his head as well.

Robertson and his son are found in the midst of the scene, observing and mocking the early morning prayers of Hindus. As they witness the scene, they make incorrect reference to the river as "Siva's sperm," and claim that the people "were supposed to wash away their sins in the sperm of the God."

Robertson goes on to characterize Hinduism as having evil tendencies

Anonymous said...

http://siskelandebert.org/video/5H42824U8X11/Sneak-Previews-Going-to-the-Movies

Anonymous said...

"Reg Cæsar said...

Zionist Jews work very hard to make the West and Muslims enemies.

Not as hard as Mohammed did."

Case in point right here fellas. Don't fall for their divide and conquer tricks.

Mr. Anon said...

"rec1man said...

Robertson goes on to characterize Hinduism as having evil tendencies."

I can't imagine where he might have gotten that idea.

Maybe it was the widow-burning and Thugee?

peak feud said...

Here's a novel idea: you're both wrong. Yes, far-fetched as that might seem, could very well be that neither Caplanite effete symposium moderation nor Saileresque chest-puffing plus insult-flinging constitute a workable style of imposing leadership, which normally draws on a combination of hardheadedness with interpersonal discernment (heretical concept), several famous examples with too much of one and not the other.

I've also heard politics called by many seasoned opinionated elders "the art of the possible" so even with that optimal blogger-approved mixture of confidence, realism, force, and opportunism the vaunted blond beast to arrive any day now would still have to know that some things are out of his hands. Of course if the Republican party's fated to keep circling the drain anyway it just makes the online brinkmanship sweeter, right?

Farang said...

Zionist Jews work very hard to make the West and Muslims enemies

Here in France we have a guy named Alain Soral, a former communist, and later pro-Le Pen militant, who is making a living telling second generation Muslim immigrants: You are not the villains, the Jews are. The Jihadis secrectly work for the Zionists, etc. It works pretty well, judging from the number of people who buy his books, watch his videos and flock to his conferences.

Soral says he's an old-style French catholic but on videos he sounds llike a crypto-muslim to me. But after five horrible years of president-from-Mossad Sarkozy, I don't really care, because the White, Christian France of old is dead, and Sarkozy's traitorous policies hastened that death. Soral's message appeals to both old-style White French nationalists and non-religious, or moderately religious, second-generation Muslims.

Maybe there will be an American Soral. Or maybe there are some people like Soral already, but their voices can't be heard because media control is more efficient in the US than in France.

DCThrowback said...

"Saileresque chest-puffing plus insult-flinging"

The strawman logical fallacy is strong w/ this one.

"He's right - maybe we SHOULDN'T insult the electorate...at least on leaked video."

Anonymous said...

"Robertson goes on to characterize Hinduism as having evil tendencies."

I can't imagine where he might have gotten that idea.

Maybe it was the widow-burning and Thugee?


Maybe it's because Hindus are not Christians?

Tony said...

"Israel" aside, the GOP has a lot in common with Muslims: social conservatism, importance of family and children, gender roles. Muslims aren't even all that strident about opening America's borders. Those are a lot of core values to build an alliance around.

Yeah, ok, keep dreaming. How did importing all those muslims into Europe turn out for them. You can't live in most muslim countries unless you're in a segregated compound. Ask some of the Christians in muslim countries how nice it is there. Muslims don't want anyone in their midst who aren't muslim. You are an infidel. Hell, sunnis and shites can't even get along. Natural allies? No way Jose.