March 21, 2013

Learning from NYC: Only frisk "the right people"

As part of an ongoing series at iSteve trying to explain to clueless flyover folk how their moral betters in New York actually manage things, here's a funny news story out of New York about the class action discrimination lawsuit against the NYPD's highly effective policy of stopping and frisking huge numbers of shifty-looking young black and Hispanic males. An underperforming, malcontent Hispanic cop secretly taped his Irish sergeant trying to explain to him that he needed to make more stops on his South Bronx beat, and make them of "the right people." Officer Serrano succeeded once in goading Sergeant McCormack into spelling out who "the right people" are:
The commanding officer, Deputy Inspector Christopher McCormack, urged the officer to be more active, emphasizing the need to conduct more street stops. “We go out there and we summons people,” Inspector McCormack said. The way to suppress violent crime, he said, was for officers to stop, question and, if necessary, frisk “the right people at the right time, the right location.”
The officer, who surreptitiously recorded the conversation last month, began pressing Inspector McCormack about who he meant by the “right people.” The conversation grew heated.
After an exchange about Mott Haven, a particularly crime-prone neighborhood, the inspector suggested that the police needed to conduct street stops of the people creating “the most problems” there.
“The problem was, what, male blacks,” Inspector McCormack said. “And I told you at roll call, and I have no problem telling you this, male blacks 14 to 20, 21.”

But that's the only time:
... The question of what commanders mean by “the right people” is central to the trial. 
Civil rights lawyers have long maintained that the term “right people” is police code for young black and Hispanic men, who make up an overwhelming share of those stopped. But the police, on the other hand, say that they use this phrase to describe habitual lawbreakers, and that by focusing on the “right people,” they are trying to avoid giving tickets to the construction worker drinking a beer on his way home or the couple strolling through a park that is closed for the night. 
The officer who made the recording, Pedro Serrano, 43, testified on Thursday that he believed his supervisors used the expression to pressure officers to stop blacks and Hispanics without reasonable suspicion. 
... When he went to Inspector McCormack’s office last month to complain about his work evaluation, he immediately came under criticism for having reported only a couple of street stops for all of 2012. 
“It seems like you are purposely not doing anything to help prevent the shootings, the robberies and the grand larcenies,” Inspector McCormack said. To conduct so few stops in a year, amid so much crime, he said, was “not fair to the public.” 
“I could see in Central Park maybe that would be fine, but this ain’t Central Park,” Inspector McCormack said. 
Officer Serrano explained that his interactions with the public did not always rise to stops, as a matter of law, and so he rarely filled out the UF-250 form, which officers are supposed to fill out each time they conduct a stop. 
At first, Inspector McCormack can be heard lecturing Officer Serrano about how “99 percent of these people in this community are great, hardworking people” who deserve to go about their days in peace. But the citizens, he said, were troubled by crime, and he went on to describe how a woman in her 60s was shot coming out of an elevator at 10 a.m. 
The ambiguity in how the phrase “stopping the right people” is used by police commanders, and how it may be interpreted by patrol officers, was evident in the recordings played in court. 
Pressed by the officer on what he meant, Inspector McCormack offered examples of people who should not be stopped, like an elderly person violating a parks rule by playing chess. He also cited the stop of a 48-year-old woman who was intercepted on her way to work as she took a shortcut through a park that was closed for the night. 
“You think that’s the right people?” Inspector McCormack asked the officer skeptically. 
But with Officer Serrano challenging him, the inspector never offered a clear answer. 
“So what am I supposed to do?” Officer Serrano asked, after Inspector McCormack used that expression again. “Is it stop every black and Hispanic?” 
The exchange continues until the inspector brings the conversation to a close, telling the officer, “You’re very close to having a problem here.” 
The inspector continued, “The problem is that you don’t know who to stop and how to stop.” 
In a later passage of the recording, which was not played in court, Inspector McCormack seemed to suggest to others there that Officer Serrano was trying to put words in his mouth. “He’s adding on that I wanted him to stop every black and Hispanic.” 

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

At first, Inspector McCormack can be heard lecturing Officer Serrano about how “99 percent of these people in this community are great, hardworking people” who deserve to go about their days in peace.

Someone needs to put this myth to bed. The myth that 99 percent of these people, I suppose blacks, are great.

If one fourth of black men spend some time during their lives in prison or the system, and assuming that black men comprise half the black population, then that means one eighth of the black population are criminals at some time during their lives. And that estimate is low given black women criminals were not factored in.

So by this back of the envelope calculation, only 87.5% of that community is great. That's a lot different than throwing out that mythical 99%.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what the percentage of the male, black population with criminal records is. Is it really 1%?

Anonymous said...

If you want to find white males to stop and frisk in Mott Haven your going to have to look for a really really long time.

Anonymous said...

"Someone needs to put this myth to bed. The myth that 99 percent of these people, I suppose blacks, are great."

For fucks sake. The supervisor was merely attempting to be PC in order to prevent the frisk policy from coming under constitutional scrutiny.

Anonymous said...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/19/usa.garyyounge

More hate facts.

"Black men born in the United States in 2001 will have a one in three chance of going to prison during their lifetime if current trends continue, according to a report by the US justice department. "

"In 2001 a sixth of African-American men were current or former prisoners, compared with one in 13 Latinos and one in 38 whites. The incarceration of women remains lower than of men but has increased at twice the rate since 1980 and shows similar racial disparities."

You can't fault the police for profiling - they are just following "Sutton's Law" - "Because that's where the money is."

Anonymous said...

So, the wrong people are the 'right' people? What happened to 'teens' and 'youths'?

San Fran police also go after the 'right' people.

Anonymous said...

My sister went to a Target this week and was behind a black woman at the register. The black woman paid with various forms of government assistance and shoplifted an iPad cover while she was there.

Anonymous said...

Maybe, some in the HBD community are making the mistake of
IQ-Malthusianism or mentalthusianism or intellthusianism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4_ExHIFEjg

If this guy is right--"we are going from scientific discovery to scientific master"--, we might be able to bio-engineer higher IQ in everyone.

Malthus made the mistake of technology being constant while population grew.
HBD might be mistaking that IQs among races will remain constant. But new technology might allow us to bio-engineer higher IQ all over the world.

Reg Cæsar said...

Simple workaround:

1) Assume everyone is carrying a firearm. This is the Bronx, after all.

2) Now ask yourself, would the city give this person a concealed-carry permit?

3) If anyone complains, demand the city compare photographs of the frisked to those of permit holders.

4) Then say you're just following city policy. Gee, Rev., does this mean city permit policy has to be changed, too?

Anonymous said...

If one fourth of black men spend some time during their lives in prison or the system, and assuming that black men comprise half the black population, then that means one eighth of the black population are criminals at some time during their lives. And that estimate is low given black women criminals were not factored in.

Wrong. There are two big assumptions in your reasoning. One, that all criminals are actually caught, convicted, and sent to prison. Two, that not going to prison somehow makes someone great and hardworking. If we can factor in unsolved and unreported crimes, I'm sure the percentage of law abiding blacks would drop to less than 60%. And, of the less than 60%, probably very few great, hardworking people.

Dennis Dale said...

So the elites' injunction for the rest of us--if they didn't view the rest of us as unworthy and suspect--would be an inversion of the old parent's ironic saw: "do as I do, not as as I say."

Anonymous said...

Micro-AGGRAVATIONS. ROTFL.

http://skift.com/2013/02/05/russia-is-trying-to-do-something-about-its-rash-of-airborne-drunken-fights/

http://windowstorussia.com/russia-and-that-drunk-drivingduma-issue.html

http://www.maydaily.com/2013/03/21/hong-kongers-pissed-at-chinese/

http://www.maydaily.com/2010/07/29/pan-mei-chen-cruises-for-gals-in-bookstore/

Anononymous said...

"99 percent of these people in this community are great"

20% of people are OK. 80% are people of walmart.

But if your standard is 'never stabbed anyone', then you can use 99%.

Anonymous said...

This study found that NYPD officers are not biased against blacks because whites who are stopped are slightly less likely to be arrested than blacks. You could argue that this is because arrests are influenced by racial bias, but they dispute this by showing that "given a certain crime committed by a pedestrian of either race, officers are not using discretion in deciding whom to arrest, or at least, that any discretion they use is uncorrelated with race". Of course you could argue that that's not a good metric, but certainly these is no any clear evidence that the police harass blacks more than whites after controlling for different propensities to crime.

Steve Sailer said...

"after controlling for different propensities to crime."

Yeah, but noticing patterns is racist.

theoak said...

I thought it was pretty widely known that the statistics the NYPD use to show a reduction of crime in NYC are not legitimate.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/nyregion/new-york-police-department-manipulates-crime-reports-study-finds.html?_r=1&

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/28/nyregion/28crime.html

Commodore Haines said...

The Israelis racially/ethnically profile to screen for potential terrorists and it is referred to as brilliant. They practically hold a kristallnacht against illegal immigrants and scarcely a whisper is said by the world. PC for thee, and not for me, indeed.

Anonymous said...

The other seldom/never discussed statistic -- one that goes a long way towards explaining officer Serrano's attitude towards his job -- is the extremely high rate of corruption and incompetence among minority (Black and Hispanic police officers. An acquaintance of mine, who led the internal affairs division of a very large federal police agency, was only one of many police administraors who told me this was a well-known problem that is utterly intractable because it cannot even be mentioned. My acquaintance went on to say that one way of distinguishing corrupt from incompetent officers is by their enthusiasm for work: Merely incompetent officers go through the motions. Corrupt officers are constantly seeking ways to feather their nests with over-time, extra details, and supervision-independent work that allows for bribes, shakedowns, and the like. Reading between the lines of this article, it would appear that Serrano is just incompetent and not corrupt. This whole farce is a way for him to avoid a civil service hearing and some sort of rebuke/punishment for his inability and/or unwillingness to perform his official functions as a police officer.

Anonymous said...

Back in the 1990s I had a chat with a law-enforcement type in NYC, the tenor of which was something like this:

A relatively small number of people commits most of the crimes. They can't always get them at once--whether it's because they don't have the clues at first, or because of tangles in the legal system--but they keep on committing crimes, and eventually they'll get arrested. So it's not that there are large numbers of criminals who never get arrested, but that it just takes a while for every criminal to get arrested.

I suppose that means that people who only commit a few crimes might get away with it, but it's mildly encouraging to think that most of the repeat offenders will eventually get caught.

FWIW.

Anonymous said...

Another thing from NYC law enforcement--having a black cop on the stand for the prosecution for a drug bust is really helpful for getting blacks on juries to be willing to convict black drug dealers, rather than think of it as a frame-up of some sort. (E.g., it was necessary for a conviction in a jury I served on.) I'm not overwhelmingly fond of forcing incompetent blacks onto the police force, but it might actually serve to increase the conviction rate of black criminals, given the voting habits of black jury members. Something to consider.

bleach said...

Can you stop calling mestizos Hispanics and Latins, especially on subjects that are blatantly racial? There's enough disinformation in the mainstream media without you adding to it. Unless you think all Americans and Canadians should be ommonly referred to as English, or perhaps Germanics.

Anonymous said...

Pressed by the officer on what he meant, Inspector McCormack offered examples of people who should not be stopped, like an elderly person violating a parks rule by playing chess.

What kind of totalitarian hell hole makes it against the law to play chess in the park?

Mr. Anon said...

New York City is a foreign country. I don't care what happens there.

countenance said...

Around 90% of NYC homicides, and I would presume a similar percentage of all violent crimes and category crimes, are committed by blacks and Hispanics.

Naw, man, no reason for racial profiling at all.

eh said...

That guy Serrano was probably an Acorn plant.

smead jolley said...

Last night I watched a documentary on the 1980-81 murders of black kids in Atlanta by Wayne Williams. All along, the 'community' assumed it was a white guy. They needed an FBI profiler to tell them, "well, it would probably take a black guy to get this close to this many black kids."

pat said...

The black problem isn't going away. Black people have inferior brains. Their brains are smaller in those areas most important to being able to participate in civilization.

The black brain deficit is not curable. Education is not the answer.

I believe that the above is the simple truth. There are plenty of MRIs, IQ test scores, and FBI crime reports that support these ideas. But clearly most Americans are not ready to face facts. They prefer to believe that black behavior is somehow the product of white oppression. They keep voting for educational reforms and black politicians. If anything, these remedies have made things worse.

America was founded by white Europeans and now finds itself saddled with black and brown non-Europeans who cause most of our social problems. What to do?

I don't know, but I do know that if you, for whatever reason, refuse to face the truth you are likely to suffer.

America has a lot of further suffering ahead.

Albertosaurus

Whiskey said...

Israel would LIKE to conduct the same sort of politics, elect a new people, but the elites will be killed as surely as the ordinary people, ironically terrorism, the desire of Muslims to wipe out every last Jew (and to do so all over the world when given a chance) prevents that sort of Western style politics over there. As much as Israeli elites want it.

Here, Steve NYC is unsustainable. Politics DEMAND an end to Stop and Frisk, that's why the lawsuit is proceeding.

Dems depend on Black and Hispanic votes. That's the BASE. They must be kept happy. Which means above all, no cops stopping them from committing crimes. Criminal violence is key to reproduction among Blacks and Hispanics, as it is a way for young men to demonstrate high-levels of Alpha-tude. You don't get more Alpha than killing someone. Hence no-snitching campaigns with Carmelo Anthony starring in videos, etc.

That's not confined to Blacks and Hispanics either, see the "Holmies" mostly White teen girls fans of James Holmes, the Aurora CO shooter, or the fans of the Petersons, Drew and Scott.

Politically, elites simply cannot keep up the stop and frisk policies that make Park Slope, or Battery Park, or other gentrifying or already gentrified NYC areas places to live for the upper middle class. Hence it is unsustainable. It is Mega City One without Judge Dredd.

Stop and Frisk will be ended, crime will rise dramatically ... and White people will be blamed.

Anonymous said...

Chicago is about to start the same stop and frisking program.

Anonymous said...

He was probably an A.A. hire. Probably not good at his job. Probably resented the wholly deserved criticism he received for his incompetence. Thus he had a chip on his shoulder. Note how he hid a recorder on him like a weasel. When you know every word you are saying is being recorded and the other party has no clue, it is easy to manipulate the conversation to your advantage.

Geoff Matthews said...

The stop-and-frisk strategy is going to be declared unconstitutional, and its going to stop.
So, would it be prudent for social scientists to make predictions on what will occur? Who will suffer?

Anonymous said...

What kind of a person records a conversation in hopes his superior will say something obvious therefore racist.

Where is the shame?

Anonymous said...


“The problem was, what, male blacks,” Inspector McCormack said. “And I told you at roll call, and I have no problem telling you this, male blacks 14 to 20, 21.”



He should have just said males aged 14-25.

The New York Times would not bite on that story.

Anonymous said...

"New York City is a foreign country. I don't care what happens there."

But elites there sure care what happens in other parts of the country and have the power to force their agenda on all of us.

Anonymous said...

"Chicago is about to start the same stop and frisking program."

It seems black leaders have to be bought off first. Once that's been done, black rage has been decapitated. With Al Sharpton having a nice gig with rich white folks, he doesn't seem to be leading the angry mobs no mo.

Maybe Obama was useful in this sense to the white/Jewish liberal elites. White libs didn't use Obama so much to change all of the black community but to convince the black leaders and elites that if they play along with white libs, there's lots of cash and prizes for them.

So, if a would-be black leader stop fanning and leading black rage but work with white liberals, they'll be showered with goodies like Obama and Sharpton were.

Anonymous said...

Black mobs can sometimes scream and riot, but without leadership, they cannot sustain any kind of movement like the one that Jesse Jackson used to lead(and drive white libs and Jews crazy). Masses can never lead themselves.

Just look at white cons. There are still many of them, but there's no true movement since there's no leadership. Most con leadership has been bought off by globalists, neocons, and etc. The likes of Gingrich and Romney and Rand Paul never try to lead the white masses. They just mislead the masses while really serving their own self-interests by sucking up to globalists and Zionists.

So, if white conservative masses are so helpless though there are so many of them, what can black masses do if black leadership is increasingly obamcized or obamstrated?

There's no leadership among cons to lead the masses to fight 'gay marriage'. No leadership to fight open borders. So, there's a lot of white con rage and anger but it never comes together into a force since there's no leadership that can lead a movement.

Dennis Dale said...

"New York City is a foreign country. I don't care what happens there."

But elites there sure care what happens in other parts of the country and have the power to force their agenda on all of us

Absolutely. Also, the quoted speaker above misses the point entirely--NY, among others, seems to be very successful at getting what they want. Watch them and learn, as Sailer advises. And yes, point out their hypocrisy, over and over.
To paraphrase an old quote: you may not care about NY, but NY cares vert much about you.

Anonymous said...

It's been said money talks, BS walks.

But it seems like money makes BS talk.

Average Joe said...

I think the NYPD should let the black and Hispanics kill each other. I am sick of minorities complaining about "racial profiling" because the police want to stop their moronic young males from killing each other.

Michael Ryan said...

we have to give up the constitution right to bear arms, freedom from search free association, free speech etc to accommodate the stone age people.
the plan seems to be to take back the cities for the elites and mix the neanderthals in the suburbs to be civilized by osmosis

Reg Cæsar said...

"New York City is a foreign country. I don't care what happens there."

But elites there sure care what happens in other parts of the country and have the power to force their agenda on all of us.
--two Anons

And yes, point out their hypocrisy, over and over. -- D Dale

I seem to recall the "other parts of the country" threatening to take away New York's highway money if the state didn't buckle and adopt the world's highest drinking age. My stepsister was among those burned by this, losing her right to a cold one just months after she first got it.

Hypocrisy is a six-lane interstate highway, it seems.



Reg Cæsar said...

...we have to give up the constitution right to bear arms, freedom from search free association, free speech etc to accommodate the stone age people.

I've made the same point myself at times. But it's a little disconcerting to hear it from one who shares the name of the perpetrator of England's most recent public massacre.

Anonymous said...

There's so much wrong here I couldn't begin to list it all, but just one example is how cops now have to fill out a form just because they stopped someone. How much paperwork do you want them to waste time doing?

But frankly, this being recorded in hopes of your committing a thoughtcrime is pretty much Stasi time.

I like the way the Hispanic cop -- demonstrating the typical solid Latino work ethic -- was told that his laziness was unfair to crime victims.

You think?

NOTA said...

The question you never see asked in this kind of story: In some area, if black males make up 25% of the people passing through, but 75% of the muggers, should the police be stopping and frisking black males only 25% of the time, or should it be more like 75% of the time?

Anonymous said...

To C. Haines: Why ? diid the Israelis criticize stop and frisk? I never heard that. In fact I recall the Israelis telling the TSA they should profile. And are you kidding about the whisper? Israel is criticized for it all the time in the world, apartheid state etc. they just ignore it.

Matthew said...

"So by this back of the envelope calculation, only 87.5% of that community is great. That's a lot different than throwing out that mythical 99%."

A different way of looking at it is this: if 1% of whites and 10% of blacks are thugs, then that means that 90% of blacks are still basically decent people - but it also means that you have 10 times the crime.

Rights or no rights, you can't have a society where law enforcement is prevented from using basic common sense. Wanna stop crime? Frisk black and Hispanic young men. Wanna catch 90% of all illegal aliens? Allow law enforcement to detain anyone who can't speak English or who speaks it with an accent, especially Hispanics. Problem solved.

Except we can't solve the problems, because law enforcement is prevented from using basic common sense.

The bottom line is that some populations require a more authoritarian hand than others. You can use a light hand on Asians and whites. Don't tighten your grip on blacks and Hispanics and chaos ensues.

Anonymous said...

Of course. No one is a true state's right federalist. Everyone wants their way - all the way. I believe it was Elizabeth Dole of North Carolina forcing the drinking age on you.

Mr. Anon said...

"Whiskey said...

Israel would LIKE to conduct the same sort of politics, elect a new people, but the elites will be killed as surely as the ordinary people, ironically terrorism, the desire of Muslims to wipe out every last Jew (and to do so all over the world when given a chance) prevents that sort of Western style politics over there. As much as Israeli elites want it."

Naturally, when the topic of discussion is policing in New York, Israel is the first thing that springs to mind for Whiskey - that plaid-blooded son of the Caledonian soil. Ayyye....a true Scotsman, he.

David said...

I recommend that the NYPD respond by embracing de-policing on the Upper East Side. Let a few of their women get shot coming out of an elevator at 10am. Just to test their devotion to "racial equality." Should be an interesting experiment.

"Parking under a shady tree to work on a crossword puzzle is a great alternative to being labeled a racist and being dragged through an inquest, a review board, an FBI and U.S. attorney investigation, and a lawsuit."

David said...

>What kind of a person records a conversation in hopes his superior will say something[...]racist.<

Answer: the kind of person whom the GOPers and the Dems want to bring into this country or otherwise grant honorary citizenship to by the millions - 12 million, at last (official) estimate.

>Where is the shame?<

Ask Rand Paul's legion of fans, all of them salivating over the promise of a 1% or 2% federal tax decrease (good luck) and swearing up and down to anyone who will listen: "We're not racists, no no no! Laws and borders are Enemies of Free Enterprise!" These utterly damned fools deserve exactly what they'll get.

rob said...

Michael Ryan said...
we have to give up the constitution right to bear arms, freedom from search free association, free speech etc to accommodate the stone age people.
the plan seems to be to take back the cities for the elites and mix the neanderthals in the suburbs to be civilized by osmosis


Not exactly. the Bloombergs and Emmanuels aren't hoping the savages get civilized. The (probably) main goal is getting the NAMs out of the way now that black attack ethnically cleansed the WASPs. The secondary bonus is that the blacks and mestizos will victimize WASPs and 'red-necks.' Sending the criminals to the 'burbs at the same time they're trying to disarm white people is not exactly an accident.

rob said...

Whiskey said...
Israel would LIKE to conduct the same sort of politics, elect a new people, but the elites will be killed as surely as the ordinary people, ironically terrorism, the desire of Muslims to wipe out every last Jew (and to do so all over the world when given a chance) prevents that sort of Western style politics over there. As much as Israeli elites want it.


So the Ashkenazi Israelis, in their own country, want to flood it with aliens until it shatters?

Paging Dr. Mac Donald...

Anonymous said...

Whiskey said...

Israel would LIKE to conduct the same sort of politics, elect a new people, but the elites will be killed as surely as the ordinary people, ironically terrorism, the desire of Muslims to wipe out every last Jew (and to do so all over the world when given a chance) prevents that sort of Western style politics over there. As much as Israeli elites want it.



zzzzzzz I started reading this and it almost sounded reasonable, until I noticed Whiskey wrote it, zzzzzzzz

Anonymous said...

"I think the NYPD should let the black and Hispanics kill each other. I am sick of minorities complaining about "racial profiling" because the police want to stop their moronic young males from killing each other."

They're not trying to prevent crime. The aim of the zero tolerance policy is to push gangbangers out of the areas the liberal elite want to gentrify.

I would be very unsurprised if the people behind the policy own most of that real-estate that will be gentrified.

The people who will pay the price will be those in the suburbs who get the displaced crime.

They can get away with it because the media will turn a blind eye when they do it.

Anonymous said...

The 'right' people may be physically frisked, but it's white people who are psychologically and ideologically frisked for possession of thought-crimes. Just ask Stephanie Grace.

At work and other places, they try to mind-frisk you to see if you're conceal-carrying 'hate weapons' of political incorrectness.

As for guns, it's as if people like Diane Feinstein want to frisk and disarm every white American household of guns.