March 3, 2013

Mormon team ranked #1 nationally in HS basketball

Lone Peak High School in Utah is ranked #1 nationally in boys basketball by Maxpreps, despite being pretty much an all-white team of Mormons. (From the pictures, there don't appear to be any black players.) It played 10 games out of state this year and won 9, five of them over teams now ranked #1 in their own states.

This isn't a Hoosiers story about a small town school. Lone Peak is a large public high school in the suburban corridor between Salt Lake City and Provo. The community is well-to-do and thus can afford to send the team to national tournaments. It doesn't recruit much outside its school district lines, but I wouldn't be surprised if sports-minded family don't move there because of the quality of its sports programs.

The national media are amazed that Lone Peak wins (this was its 6th state title in 9 years) without black players, and that the white kids play a black Showtime style of fast-breaking and dunks. In general, I suspect that white basketball players develop better as adolescents without blacks around to intimidate them. I'm also guessing that Lone Peak's team was heavily "redshirted" by their parents because several of the players are about to leave for their overseas Mormon mission of two years -- that happens at age 19, which suggests that Lone Peak's team is older than you would expect high school players to be. 

But, in general, high school sports are much less black dominated than college or professional sports. They are typically dominated by mostly white schools, either Catholic or upscale exurban like Lone Peak. In football, the usual formula for winning state championships is to have a team that's about 80% white from a school that's 90% white, but with black stars at running back, receiver, linebacker, and, say, cornerback. 

For schools I'm more familiar with, Maxpreps has as #1 in California and #4 nationally the basketball team from Mater Dei, a large Catholic school in Orange County. Mater Dei is a traditional football power, with two Heisman Trophy winners among its alumni, and has the kind of weight room you'd expect to see in the SEC. Judging from pictures of Mater Dei's basketball team, it looks like it has about 3 black stars and the rest of the team is white with a few Filipinos or Mexicans.

Mater Dei just lost over the weekend to Etiwanda, previously ranked #9 nationally, a large public high school in exurban Rancho Cucamonga. Etiwanda's student body is about 19% black, and the team looks like it has four or 5 blacks on the court most of the time, with a more mixed bench. 

Basketball is different from football in that you can go a long way with about 3 stars. For example, a number of years ago, a local upscale private high school (we'll call them HC) recruited the #1 eighth grade black basketball prospect in the country (he's now playing well in the NBA), found a couple of black wing men for him, and won the California state championship. This was so successful that this private school, which played my son's school in football each year, tried this same strategy with their football team.

When my son was a freshman, his school's football varsity beat HC's varsity, mostly whites and Asians with one five-foot-tall fast black freshman receiver, in a tightly fought game. Over the next two years, HC's varsity football team filled up with giant fast black players and HC would win by scores like 56-0. But then by my son's senior year, all the giant black players were suddenly gone, and HC's team was back to whites, Asians, and the tiny black receiver, now a senior, and it was once again a close game.

I've noticed that strange stuff like this happens in high school sports not uncommonly these days, although you can never find an explanation in public. How did HC suddenly acquire giant black football players and why did it suddenly get rid of them? We're not likely to ever hear the full story.

51 comments:

Anonymous said...

White basketball players develope better without black players around to intimidate them.

The same is true with Asians. There would be more Asians in professional sports today if Asians could have their own schools and sports leagues.

But white people would not like this anymore than black people would like it if whites had their own schools and leagues.

Dutch Boy said...

The traditional high school fb power in California is De La Salle HS in Concord. They are a mostly white team that plays a tightly-disciplined option offense that their opponents of whatever color have not been able to slow down (they won the championship of the state open division last year and will likely win it again next year).

guest007 said...

Steve,

One of the odd differences in Texas is that the public schools have remained better in sports than the private schools. Of course, most of the winning teams come the affluent suburbs where they can put more resources into football and basketball than either the private schools or the inner city schools.

The state football champion in Texas was Katy High school that is over 60% white and only 7% black.

In the book Friday Night Lights, the author wrote about the differences between raw talent (of Dallas Carter) versus the system players of schools like Odessa Permian. In high school football, the system schools usually win but a private school can always stack its basketball team.

Anonymous said...

Males can now go on missions at the age of 18. This was changed last october. One of the guys is going straight after graduation the other will play a year at BYU.

helene edwards said...

The most touted basketball player I can remember from Mater Dei was Tom Lewis, who became a star at Pepperdine. Needless to say, once he got to the NBA, he couldn't play.

Anonymous said...

The most touted basketball player I can remember from Mater Dei was Tom Lewis, who became a star at Pepperdine. Needless to say, once he got to the NBA, he couldn't play. I think you are right. Years ago Oceanside had Cherokee Parks who had some American Indian. I went to Los Amgios in my day it was mainly white and had about 20 percent Mexican. We had a good team with one tall Mexican and lost to Newberry Park. The best players was Clayton Oliver who play in college and some pro in Europe. There was a Rogers who went to play pro at La Quinta High which is majority Vietamise now. As for Mater Dei they know how to recruit and its right in a middle of a Mexican neighborhood since its in Santa Ana.

Anonymous said...

The state football champion in Texas was Katy High school that is over 60% white and only 7% black.
Katy also most have at the most only 25 percent Hispanic. Texas your able to get away from the Hispanic areas by going to upper-middle burbs.

Anonymous said...

But, in general, high school sports are much less black dominated than college or professional sports. They are typically dominated by mostly white schools, either Catholic or upscale exurban like Lone Peak. In football, the usual formula for winning state championships is to have a team that's about 80% white from a school that's 90% white, but with black stars at running back, receiver, linebacker, and, say, cornerback.
Verbuim Dei use to be a powerhouse and it was a Catholic school with a lot of blacks. La County lost a lot of blacks and whites. Whites dominate sports in La County since they are usually bigger than Hispanics. How low the white population drops in the younger generation effect on sports who knows. i'm surprise that Ca does as good as Texas in track and field since Texas had more blacks. As for sports people don't care about like swimming, living in a warmer climate helps Arizona or California or Texas or Florida even if the demographics which favors whites is getting less in the kids population. Remmeber Michael Phelps came from the burbs of Baltimore where you would not except best swimmer unlike Spitz who was born in northern Calif in the 1950's which was heavily white then.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of Mormons:

"Mitt Romney has admitted that a failure to connect with minority voters and his underestimation of support for Barack Obama's healthcare reforms helped cost him the presidential election - an assessment that could have important implications for a Republican party divided over how to take back the White House.

Romney said the alienation of Latino and black voters did "real damage to my campaign".

"We weren't effective taking our message to primarily to minority voters, to Hispanic Americans, African Americans, other minorities.

"That was a failing. That was a real mistake," he told Fox News Sunday in his first major interview since his defeat in November.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/03/mitt-romney-fox-mistake-campaign

How can a man who is so successful in the cut throat, qualitative and quantitative world of private equity get it so wrong? Why would non-white ethnics, most of whom have a heavy short term bias in their thinking, stupidly vote against the better ethnic spoils program especially when lead by one of their own, BO?

First, blacks and Hispanics aren't the majority. Second, his hope of running a better campaign to reach out to them would have netted him only maybe 10-20% more votes of that demographic. This very optimistic 6% total increase would not have swung the election, especially as it would have likely alienated a greater number of white voters.

The GOP really is the stupid party.

Mike said...

guest007... You're correct about the public schools being better than the private schools in Texas but maybe you don't remember the deal. Jesuit Dallas and Jesuit Strake (Houston) wanted out of the private league and into the public league. One of the things they had to agree to was to play sports at the 5A level. Jesuit Dallas would be a 4A school if it the student body were counted "fairly." I think Jesuit Dallas would dominate 4A. They get their ass kicked in 5A.

Texas, for being as heavily Catholic as it is, never really developed the Catholic HS network of Chicago and other places. The likely explanation is the hispanics. They just aren't as into the parish thing as the whites.

guest2 said...

"White basketball players develop better without black players around to intimidate them."

Black parents also get nasty with white students, coaches, other parents, etc. if their kids aren't being given all the playing time, positions they want, etc.

I agree with guest007. Texas public schools (and not just upper class) have remained better than the private schools.

Anonymous said...

Texas, for being as heavily Catholic as it is, never really developed the Catholic HS network of Chicago and other places. The likely explanation is the hispanics. They just aren't as into the parish thing as the whites. Texas whites tend to be heavily evangelical whilte in Chicago they are more likely Catholic.

Anonymous said...

"I've noticed that strange stuff like this happens in high school sports not uncommonly these days, although you can never find an explanation in public. How did HC suddenly acquire giant black football players and why did it suddenly get rid of them? We're not likely to ever hear the full story."

Steve, being the dumb naive amerikan that I am, I will take a stab at this. Most likley the black "student" athlete "scholars" were "macking" as they call it in the hood, on some white gurls.

Before you know it their racist fathers (alumni with connections?), who absolutely do not see the truth and infallibility of equality, multiculturalism, and diversity did not accept this arrangement. Threatened to pull their kids and support of HC.

But, I am just a dumb naive amerikant, wtf do I know?

guest007 said...

Mike,

In looking at the USA Today Top 25, I saw the name of Prime Prep Academy in Dallas. In looking for information about the school, it appears that Deion Sanders and others tried to set up a diploma mill to sponsor a stacked basketball team similar to Findlay Prep in Nevada or Riverdale Baptisnt in Maryland. However, the public schools in Texas figured out what was going on and kicked Prime Prep Academy out of the UIL. http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/11/30/prime-prep-academy-withdrawals-from-uil/

Maybe one of the things that helps the public schools in Texas are rules against recruiting.

Dennis Dale said...

White basketball players develope better without black players around to intimidate them.

The same is true with Asians.


I was thinking this in regard to the Jeremy Lin phenomenon--combined with the disparity in physical maturation rates, which, like so much else, stack up blacks earliest and Asians latest with whites intermediate.

Of course even if this became a widespread strategy for increasing the diversity in, say, the NBA, I imagine it would only yield a small net increase in the underrepresented groups. Then again, isn't it happening now? Whites and Asians already have plenty of incentives to shield their children from black kids. And they do, if they have the means. And we're back to another Sailer theme--working class whites are left to the wolves.

I'm sure someone in the education "reform" movement has had the same thought about black scholastic inadequacy. Shield the little ones through high school and college and then spring them on the broader world. Of course it doesn't work (and even leads me to the depressing realization--earlier black maturation means their brains too are developing earlier, and they should have a leg up in thinking too; disparity in educational achievement is then worse than what we see)

Black kids nowadays generally aren't intimidated by anything (somewhere I read a refutation of this notion of the reformers; a study showed that black elementary school kids treated math and such much as they do everything else, over-estimating their own abilities and quick to ridicule those of their fellows).
Or at least they react differently--I think black hostility toward scholastics is a reaction to their own perceived inadequacy. I remember sensing this in high school with Mexican kids and my own white trash kin.

Knowing they can't compete, they attack the basis and validity of that competition.
And they are winning, culturally. The young of all races are adopting the alternative, the stupid culture of hip hop, etc. Black American culture can be seen as a MacDonald-esque "evolutionary strategy".

poolside said...

I was going to mention Katy HS, west of Houston, but I see some folks beat me to it.

Katy is a football powerhouse and has been for years, winning with the same mix as you talk about here, Steve ... majority white players but a handful of blacks at the skill positions. I believe Southlake Carroll is the same type of program.

The interesting thing in Texas HS football is that some of the weakest overall teams -- usually from all-black schools -- have the most Div. 1 college recruits.

You see this all the time. The black school will finish the season 3-7, losing to majority white suburban schools, but will place 5-10 players at colleges like Oklahoma, Florida, Texas, etc. The white schools will dominate the season but have no players who go on to play major college football.

You have to wonder how schools with so much Div. 1-quality talent can't win against smaller, slower white kids.



MC said...

"Males can now go on missions at the age of 18. This was changed last october."

Yup.

Anonymous said...

How do mid-level teams suddenly dominate? Google Skaneateles New York high school football and former coach Tim Green, and find out one way.

Anonymous said...


White basketball players develope better without black players around to intimidate them.

The same is true with Asians. There would be more Asians in professional sports today if Asians could have their own schools and sports leagues.

But white people would not like this anymore than black people would like it if whites had their own schools and leagues.


Oh, BS. Asians in the US aren't separatists. They don't want their own schools and programs. Asians like being in white schools. They sure as hell don't love all black or all Asian places.

Drunk Idiot said...

@guest007:

"One of the odd differences in Texas is that the public schools have remained better in sports than the private schools. Of course, most of the winning teams come the affluent suburbs where they can put more resources into football and basketball than either the private schools or the inner city schools.

The state football champion in Texas was Katy High school that is over 60% white and only 7% black.
"

Katy may only be 7% black (assuming you're talking in terms of enrollment, not the demographics of the football team), but its football program has a long history of producing outstanding, Division I caliber players at skill positions. And they've been overwhelmingly black.

Katy has plenty of good white players too, of course. I had a college friend who was a big offensive lineman from Katy H.S. (he's a white guy), so I've been well aware of that program for over 15 years. Lots of big white guys there -- especially in the trenches.

But all those great Katy running backs are always black.

MC said...

I'd say Mormons who intend to go on missions are much less likely to "redshirt" in high school, all else being equal. If you really think you're headed for athletic greatness, you don't want to graduate college at the age of 25 or 26 if you can help it.

Mike said...

guest007,

I'd forgotten about Mr. Sanders' school. But to call it a diploma mill? I think you're being unfair. I've no doubt that Prime Time is setting up the finest academic institution.

But on a serious note, the same thing would happen to Jesuit Dallas and Jesuit Strake if the good ol' boys of public school football thought they were recruiting too much.

Drunk Idiot said...

iSteve wrote:

"In general, I suspect that white basketball players develop better as adolescents without blacks around to intimidate them."

This is an interesting concept, and it's something that iSteve has written before. Just from my own experiences and observations, I know that there's a level of truth to it. But there's also evidence that white players develop better when they grow up playing with and against black players.

I played basketball at a Chicago Catholic League high school that had a basically half black, half white basketball program. As freshmen, most of the white suburban kids on the team were intimidated by their urban black teammates. And although I would have been loathe to admit as much, it was definitely true in my case.

But I really, really wanted not to be a goofy, soft white guy, so I spent as much time as I could playing with black guys -- whether at open gyms, at YMCAs or on outdoor courts in ... uh ... non-gentrified parts of town.

I ended up getting really good at crossing over, creating my own shot off the dribble, going hard to the basket (like a bullet train, but without charging) and finishing at the rim. I didn't end up playing ultra-black style basketball like White Chocolate or The Professor, but I became a lot tougher (no longer intimidated by black players), and became a more skilled, aggressive offensive player. And while I've always been a naturally explosive athlete, it wasn't until I began playing with black players every day that I learned how to use my speed, quickness and jumping ability to use in game situations.

So while I was initially intimidated by black players, I also knew that it was weak sauce to be intimidated by them, and that the best way to stop being intimidated by black players (i.e., the guys I had to compete with in practice) was to play with and against them all the time. Once I learned how to play with black players, I realized that they didn't have any kind of magic basketball powers, and that I could my own against them.

I'm pretty sure that most white/non black players go through a similar progression whenever they have to start playing in mixed company.

NOTA said...

Related news story:An academic scandal at UNC thanks to athletics. It seems the athletes were often enrolled in black studies classes fhat never actually met or had tests. Now the college is auditing all their courses to make sure they're actually taking place.

Drunk Idiot said...

More on the subject of white basketball players being intimidated by black players:

These days, all the good young basketball players grow up playing AAU basketball, so white players are exposed to black players at a young age (I played high school basketball in the early 90s, just before the AAU system blew up).

By the time they're in high school, most of the good white players have been playing on ultra-competitive AAU teams with black players, and have been receiving advanced-level coaching from AAU coaches, who on average, tend to be black (and shady).

Even if the white players hail from areas where there aren't many/any black players, and thus have to play on predominantly white AAU teams, they still grow up playing against AAU teams filled with black players.

So the modern white basketball player probably isn't intimidated by black players, because he's almost certainly spent his entire life playing with and against black players.

That's a big change from the way things were 20 years ago.

Coach Jocko Homo said...

Another way to win in football is using Louisville Trinity's playbook: have a Catholic all-male school of 1400 boys, recruit the best players you can and then go kick some ass.

DPG said...

Sometimes they get their due. Check out this story:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/tim_green_update.html

Skaneatles is a small, affluent town on one of the Finger Lakes. The Clintons vacationed there when Hillary first made her run for Senate. It's about 99% white. A former NFL player moved into town and his son took over as quarterback. Within a year, a couple of highly skilled black kids moved into the school district.

Anonymous said...

White people could conquer any obstacle as a group. History has shown that. Jews have worked tirelessly to break down white cohesion for their own benefit. A few years ago, the TV show Survivor broke the contestants up into 4 groups by race: white, black, Latino and East Asian. The white group dominated. Then the teams were disbanded and the white players were picked off one by one by the non-white players who worked as a group.

Anonymous said...

Asians want to be in white schools only because their are no other alternatives and that is the way to get ahead in this country.

The whites who run elite colleges and run industry would not look favorably on an Asian school just like black people would not like to hire someone who comes from an all white school.

The difference, of course, is that blacks don't run elite colleges or business unless they are vetted first by a white man.

So if whites want their own schools then fine, let them have it. But I doubt whites would stand for other groups having their own school and excluding whites (Asians).

The point being that while blacks do intimidate and target whites while in school, white people do the same to Asians.

Anonymous said...

Well, Mittens talking about the 47 percent, well a big chunk of the 47 percent are blacks and hispanics. Two, yes, the heathcare plan probably hurt him with some whites that are uninsured in the mid-west. Mittens only did good with the working class that were into keeping their guns and religion. I don't haver respect for a man that should know that losing Oh was what killed him. The Republicans will go on the Hisapanic thing until 2014 when they have to go back to getting white votes.

Anonymous said...

"White basketball players develop better without blacks around to intimidate them".

EVERYBODY develops better without blacks around.

Don't mean to sound unkind, but I believe that 100%.

Gould K.L. Brownlee said...

The mystery of the large Blacks appearing and disappearing:

I don't know if what I'm about to tell still happens, but 20 to 30 years ago there were some High Schools in Ga., Fla., Ala., etc. that were ALWAYS contenders for the state championship in football.

Some of the wealthier alumni or fathers of students would scout out lower-income high school stars at other schools. They would approach the student's father and tell him that if he would move his kid to their high school area he would have twice the salary on a job they would find or provide for him. Sometimes a free house was in the deal (not a very nice free house typically, but still.)

This used to leak out on a regular basis because every now and then one of the recipients of one of these windfalls would fail to understand how such a thing might look just a little shady and he would proudly go around talking about it to anybody; even people holding microphones with cameras looming behind them.

JeremiahJohnbalaya said...

Drunk Idiot said some stuff

Most of what you've said is true. You do get better by playing against better players. And a big part of basketball is certainly mental. But I think you are missing the point.

Where (and what time) does your experience come from? I matured in a fairly close-knit, controlled environment where I knew all the black kids from a young age. Unless some random blacks showed up at the rec center from the neighboring town, there was just about zero racial animosity on the court. When I got to college, you'd start to see some of the attitudes that blacks had towards whites that tried to compete with them; I was actually good enough that I played on courts where that sort of nonsense wasn't too bad. But I learned to know what to look for, and started seeing it more in more as I moved to new places to play with new people. Now I know that what I grew up with as an adolescent (not as a teenager playing controlled AAU games with referees, or pick up w/ blacks that I'd known all my lift) in rare. The younger brothers and nephews of my friends simply don't have the same good experience that I had. They literally feel in danger of the lives to play with the young black kids. They have abandoned the sport. And that's in a place that is about as synonymous with basketball as you are likely to find in the entire world.

Anonymous said...

"So if whites want their own schools then fine, let them have it. But I doubt whites would stand for other groups having their own school and excluding whites (Asians)."

Not only do Asians have their own schools, they have their own countries.

mashie said...

Sports are just like everything else. The more time you spend on it, the better you get. The reason poor black kids and rich white kids are best is because they are playing the most. The poor black kids play all day at the playground, the rich kids get put in year round leagues in elementary school. The people that don't make it are the middle class kids whose parents neither let them run free nor have the money/time/effort to put them into elite programs every year.

mashie said...

Sports are just like everything else. The more time you spend on it, the better you get. The reason poor black kids and rich white kids are best is because they are playing the most. The poor black kids play all day at the playground, the rich kids get put in year round leagues in elementary school. The people that don't make it are the middle class kids whose parents neither let them run free nor have the money/time/effort to put them into elite programs every year.

Drunk Idiot said...

@JeremiahJohnbalaya

"Where (and what time) does your experience come from?"

Where and when does yours come from?

I grew up in the South Suburbs of Chicago in the late 80s/early 90s. I was in high school in the early 90s.

"I matured in a fairly close-knit, controlled environment where I knew all the black kids from a young age...

[In] a place that is about as synonymous with basketball as you are likely to find in the entire world...
"

Where and when?

"Unless some random blacks showed up at the rec center from the neighboring town, there was just about zero racial animosity on the court."

I've never seen much racial animosity on the basketball court. In my experience, black players will give good white players respect, just as long as they're legit and prove that they can play.

A lot of white kids in my high school's basketball program were intimidated by the black players when they were freshmen, but that's primarily because the black players were more physical, aggressive and skilled than most the suburban white kids. Plus they talked trash and got in the white kids' heads at first.

The white kids who were legit would adjust after a while, though, and the better white players would eventually cease to be intimidated or psyched out by the black players. But the white guys always had to earn the black players' respect.

I saw the cycle repeat with each successive freshman class while I was in h.s.

"When I got to college, you'd start to see some of the attitudes that blacks had towards whites that tried to compete with them; I was actually good enough that I played on courts where that sort of nonsense wasn't too bad. But I learned to know what to look for, and started seeing it more in more as I moved to new places to play with new people. Now I know that what I grew up with as an adolescent... in rare."

I've been playing basketball all over the place since I was a teenager 20 years ago. I've been playing in Chicago and in the southern and western suburbs of Chicago since Mark Wahlberg was Marky Mark.

Over the years, my other frequent basketball haunts have been Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Greenville-Spartanburg, SC, Jacksonville/Gainesville/Orlando, Austin, San Antonio, St. Louis, Iowa, Madison, WI, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Indianapolis, Hammond & W. Lafayette, IN.

I've spent a lot of time in each of those places since college and I've played a lot of basketball in all them over the years. I've spent a lot of time on courts in Chicago where there weren't many white faces and I've logged plenty of hours on the courts at Run 'N Shoot in Atlanta. I played for a very competitive high school program and in college (albeit in Division III) and I still play a lot of basketball. I'm in my late 30s now, but I can still walk into just about any gym anywhere in the world and know that there probably won't be a better player than I am in the building (excluding Run 'N Shoot and other gyms that attract NBA players in the off season).

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of black guys who are legit basketball players have no problem whatsoever giving white players respect, as long as the white player proves himself to be a good player who's deserving of that respect.

The better the white player, the more respect he'll get from black players, of course.

The only black guys who have ever given me crap on the court for being white have been hardcore ghetto thug/gang banger types and guys who were testing me and talking sh** when I was young and still intimidated by black players.

I've had times when I've played with black guys who wouldn't give me the ball at first, but that's usually only happened with black guys who weren't legit players. I've never had a problem getting the ball from good black players, at least not after I've demonstrated that I could do good things with it.

Anonymous said...

i dont think whites develop worse bc of blacks. at soccer i always liked to play with other ethnicities. as long as the ref keeps good score and guards fairplay, all can benefit. my impression is the opposite, sports (or music) is as close we can come to raceblind comradery.

ATBOTL said...

"But white people would not like this anymore than black people would like it if whites had their own schools and leagues."

Nonsense. Most white people could care less if other groups have their own institutions. They already do for the most part.

Anonymous said...

Your talkling bout lower middle class kids a lot of kids in the 45,000 to 80,000 do play sports on outside teams and football and basketball don't cost thousands of dollars like Gynmatics or Ice Skating. It more like a 200 per year to play outside sports like football or basketball or swimming. I use to swim as a kid and came from a lower middle class family.

ATBOTL said...

"The point being that while blacks do intimidate and target whites while in school, white people do the same to Asians."

Then stay in Asia, buddy.

Anonymous said...

Makes Jeremy Lin's success in the NBA that much more impressive, eh?

Anonymous said...

Oh, I comment thread on I subject where i actually know something about.

The way to get better at basketball is to play against guys that are better than you -- then when you get as good as that group - find another better group. Lather, rinse, repeat until you hit your level.

The black guys are just more common the more standard deviations to the right.

Anonymous said...

There are a lot of pro basketball players that didn't do outside teams as kids Mark Eaton didn't do Basketball until community college. The average Joe benefits the most by outside teams. In sports like swimming a kid that swam on outside clubs but is not that naturally good of swimmer usually can beat more natural talent swimmmers in events like the 200 and 500 yard freestyles since they have the yardage while the natural talent kid that didn't start until high school will beat the club team swimmer at at 50 yard or 100 yard race.

Anonymous said...

Not only do Asians have their own schools, they have their own countries.

What is that supposed to mean? Nearly everyone "has their own country". Eskimos and Gypsies might not, but blacks and whites always had their countries, and Jews did for 60 years, and Armenians did for 20 years.

not a hacker said...

@Drunk Idiot and Johnbalaya:

Around 1995 I was in a majority black pick-up game on the Berkeley campus, when the Cal coach, Todd Bozeman (famous for getting Shareef Abdul-Rahim out of Georgia) showed up to play. We'd never met before. I hit my first shot over him, and he immediately started yapping all this garbage at me. The fragility of the black ego is simply amazing. Basketball is all they have.

JeremiahJohnbalaya said...

The only black guys who have ever given me crap on the court for being white have been hardcore ghetto thug/gang banger types and guys who were testing me and talking sh** when I was young and still intimidated by black players.

All of your other details are just emphasizing your original point(s), which I agreed with. This sentence gets at the underlying original point. This increasing thuggish behavior is harder and harder for the average white adolescent to overcome. They have better things to do.

FWIW, I'm originally from somewhere in (on?) Tobacco Road, high school in late 80's.

Anonymous said...

High school hockey in Massachusetts may be the best example of the public/parochial dichotomy. The high school sports governing body actually created a special tournament (The Super 8) outside the division structure to place the best Catholic hockey schools, along with a couple publics who had outstanding years and may get lucky with a hot goalie.

Anonymous said...

Yeah. White people have their own country. In Europe.

Alice said...

Isn't it simpler than this? Anyone can develop if given a chance to play, and people with brains can see the value of discipline and practice over unregulated talent.
High school ball isn't the caliber of college or pro. It doesn't take being 3 sigma from the mean in every category to succeed. It takes practice, discipline, effort, and some talent.
What does it take to create a disciplined team of black high school kids? What would it take to get them to consistently show up, attend, and stay academically eligible? How disciplined will your white kids be in a school with a large enough black population that ghetto is the cultural expectation, in terms of decorum, discipline, work ethic, academics, etc.?

the public high schools in the Mpls-St. paul area have white kids who act like thugs even though they are from from well off families. Their teams reflect the undiscipline.

Private high schools have standards. Black kids at private schools may be on scholarship, but even then nearly always, those schools are religious, and the kids come from 2 parent families. It's still a challenge to get them to behave properly. Too many can't hack the classroom behavioral expectations, never mind the workload. So you can only have so many on your team for long.

Anonymous said...

"White people have their own country. In Europe."

If only. On my last trip there, I couldn't believe how many third world people I saw there. Go to any city in England, France or the low countries and you can play a game of 'spot the white man'.