March 23, 2013

What have boys who are smart at math and science ever done for humanity?

From the New York Times:
Girls Excel in the Classroom but Lag in Entry to 8 Elite Schools in the City 
By AL BAKER 
In the United States, girls have outshined boys in high school for years, amassing more A’s, earning more diplomas and gliding more readily into college, where they rack up more degrees — whether at the bachelor’s, master’s or doctoral levels. 
But that has not been the trend when it comes to one of the highest accomplishments a New York City student can achieve: winning a seat in one of the specialized high schools. 
At all eight of the schools that admit students based on an eighth-grade test, boys outnumber girls, sometimes emphatically. 
Boys make up nearly 60 percent of the largest and most renowned schools, Stuyvesant, the Bronx High School of Science and Brooklyn Tech, and as much as 67 percent at the High School for Mathematics, Science and Engineering at City College, according to city statistics. 
While studies suggest that girls perform as well as boys in math and science classes in high school, their participation in those fields drops off in college and ultimately in careers, a phenomenon that the White House, with its Council on Women and Girls, and the National Science Foundation have tried to reverse. 
The fact that girls are underrepresented in New York’s top high schools, which tend to be focused on math and science, and which have more than a dozen Nobel laureates among their alumni, worries some academics who see the schools as prime breeding grounds for future scientists and engineers. 
“It is very suspect that you don’t have as many girls as boys in New York City’s specialized schools,” said Janet S. Hyde, a psychology professor at the University of Wisconsin who has published research on girls’ performance in math and science from elementary school through college. Individual girls might be losing opportunities, she said, “but it is also bad for society as a whole because in a global economy we need to identify the best scientists and mathematicians.” 
The racial makeup of the schools has been a combustible issue for years — 5 percent of the students accepted this month into the elite schools were black, and 7 percent were Hispanic. Civil rights groups have argued that using a test as the sole basis of admission favors students with means to prepare for the test, and have pushed unsuccessfully to have the schools adopt additional criteria, like middle school grades, for admission. 
The gender imbalance has not generated the same kind of protest. But several academics and analysts said the reliance on the test might also play a role in keeping girls out. While girls outperform boys on an array of academic benchmarks in high school and college, they still trail on standardized tests, like the SAT, according to federal Department of Education statistics. 
This year, of those who took the Specialized High School Admissions Test, 51 percent were girls. But only 45 percent of those offered seats in the schools were girls. 
... Even the specialized schools with a focus on the classics and humanities, Brooklyn Latin and the High School of American Studies at Lehman College, now have a majority of male students. It was not always that way: Girls outnumbered boys at both schools until recently. American Studies has used the specialized admissions test since it opened a decade ago. 
But in the first few years at Brooklyn Latin, founded in 2006, it had a broader admission policy based on grades and exams. Once it was made one of the specialized test schools, its population swung toward males. 
A corollary, perhaps, of the masculine leanings of the eight schools is the makeup of some of the elite high schools that do not use the specialized admissions test for admission. 
At Fiorello H. La Guardia High School of Music and Art and Performing Arts, which admits students based on grades and auditions or portfolios of artwork, 73 percent of the students are girls. At Bard High School Early College, which has campuses in Manhattan and Queens, as well as at Millennium, Beacon and Townsend Harris High Schools, girls outnumber boys by at least 3 to 2. 

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

Lots of whites excel in NCAA college football but lag in NFL recruitment.

Harry Baldwin said...

Political correctness seems to know no bounds. Sometimes I try to think what could be in store for us next--there is nothing so absurd that it might not be up for consideration within a few years.

How about every adolescent boy be legally required to have at least one homosexual experience, to prove that he at least gave it a try? This could be supervised by the government healthcare service.

Another idea: how about babies in nurseries be randomly handed out to parents? If whites were aware that after delivery, they might be taking home the baby of an unwed black teenager, and she might be taking home theirs, they would surely press for more racial equality.

There are all sorts of progressive ideas like that we can envision for our future. Just think outside the box a little.

Rev. Right said...

“It is very suspect that you don’t have as many girls as boys in New York City’s specialized schools,” said Janet S. Hyde

Yes, very suspect indeed. There is one remaining bastion in the New York City School system where boys aren't failing, one last area in which male academic achievement is not collapsing. Something must be done. And Dr. Hyde will do it.

Enough is never enough.

Matthew said...

"It is very suspect that you don’t have as many girls as boys in New York City’s specialized schools”

It is suspect that there are more boys than girls in juvenile detention.

It is suspect that women go to jail and prison less often than men.

It is suspect that women live longer than men.

It is suspect that Jews make up a far higher portion of the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, the Forbes 400, and the Harvard student body than they do of the general population.

All of the above are worthy rebuttals, but ones that no one can make because they would instantly be branded a bigot, a sexist, and an anti-Semite.

Somehow, this article takes for granted than women graduate from college more often than men. When men do worse than women, it's the faukt of men. When men do better than women...it is also the fault of men.

When men

Anonymous said...

No wonder there's people out there who can't wait until this all comes burning down around our ears. Having to hunt for your food but never having to hear about ths shit again seems like a fair trade.

SFG said...

"It is suspect that Jews make up a far higher portion of the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, the Forbes 400, and the Harvard student body than they do of the general population."

We could always argue we earned it, at least up until 1965 or so.

Eric said...

As Professor Mark Perry has noted:
"the concern about gender imbalances and gender equity is very, very selective, imbalanced and inequitable – there is only concern when women are under-represented and never any concern when the second sex is under-represented!"

helene edwards said...

While girls outperform boys on an array of academic benchmarks in high school and college, they still trail on standardized tests

In other words, girls know how to game those other "benchmarks," but the tests tell the real tale.

Anonymous said...


"We could always argue we earned it, at least up until 1965 or so."


Yes, that is the point. Jews earned their success just like boys earned their places in the elite NYC public schools.

But if you make the reasonable analogy to these obviously similar situations of honest but disproportionate success these chicks come unglued.

Anonymous said...

"It is suspect that Jews make up a far higher portion of the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, the Forbes 400, and the Harvard student body than they do of the general population."

We could always argue we earned it, at least up until 1965 or so.


Why only until 1965?

Anonymous said...

Thus proving the eternal stupidity, as regards math and statitics, of journalists in general, and specifically the NYTimes. NYC elite HS students (as prospective college students)are not a subset (a sample) of the college student population, but a distinctly different population. Different population, different outcome. It's the reasoning in the article that's more than suspect.
4BZ

Anonymous said...

Harry Baldwin's excellent comment made my blood run cold. What's next? "How about every adolescent boy be legally required to have at least one homosexual experience, to prove that he at least gave it a try? ... Or babies in nurseries be randomly handed out to parents?"

What wonderful ideas for dystopian fiction! Didn't Evelyn Waugh write a short story set in the future, when men and women both sported long, satiny beards?

Dennis Dale said...

You would think it was mathematicians and scientists running the world, reading this.
Indeed, the article lists how girls are out-competing boys in school generally, without acknowledging much of this has to do both with intentional bias to balance out "sexism" and the fact that school favors girls over more aggressive and rambunctious boys.
I don't see a lot of advanced science and math degrees among the influential elite.
Still it isn't enough. Two recent themes of yours, "microaggressions", "KKKrazy glue" are simply manifestations of a third--the success of Quebec and the chutzpah of Israel.

The left has routed us and is now chasing us into the weeds to cut us down individually--because they haven't even the capacity to imagine doing anything else.

What are they going to do, declare victory and behave graciously? Where's the fun--or more importantly the influence and cash--in that? They are like a vast standing army with nothing to do and no wish to return to civilian life.

Anonymous said...

I really don't understand why we should want to eat this generation's seed grain by condemning the most intelligent young women to spending their reproductive years toiling in academia and industry. Don't intelligent women deserve to reproduce too?

Anonymous said...

In other words, girls do well at school but boys have more raw ability. For some reason this concept mystifies and confounds academics and politicians.

Anonymous said...

In the United States, girls have outshined boys in high school for years, amassing more A’s, earning more diplomas and gliding more readily into college, where they rack up more degrees — whether at the bachelor’s, master’s or doctoral levels.


But that has not been the trend when it comes to one of the highest accomplishments a New York City student can achieve: winning a seat in one of the specialized high schools



I suppose it would be rude to point out that the former is based on the subjective opinions of those girls (female) high school teachers, while the latter is based on objective testing.

In a sane world, people would notice that this data is evidence of systematic discrimination against boys in high school. Well, let's move on ..

Anonymous said...

Funny that the both stop and frisk and elite highschools attract attention for their racial disparities.

But while 40% of the elite high schools are female, that attracts a look into gender disparities only 7% of those stopped and frisked are female, and that attracts no look into gender disparity.

Anonymous said...

The able-bodied C man! He sails swimmingly along.
His philosophy is rosy as a skylark's matin song.
The light of his ambition is respectably to pass,
And to hold a firm position in the middle of his class.

Anonymous said...

“It is very suspect that you don’t have as many girls as boys in New York City’s specialized schools,” said Janet S. Hyde

La Griffe's veteran gap buster makes an appearance!

"I really don't understand why we should want to eat this generation's seed grain by condemning the most intelligent young women to spending their reproductive years toiling in academia and industry."

If x-chromosomes have disproportionate number of cognitive-abilities linked genes, intelligent women reproducing less than their not-so-smart sisters would usher in gender equality!!

"In other words, girls know how to game those other "benchmarks," but the tests tell the real tale. "

To a better degree certainly, the tests can be gamed too however the advantage is slighter. It wouldn't be a wrong assumption that test preparation differs between the genders too.

Bobcat said...

Serious question: would it be illegal for these math and science schools to have something like a ten-year moratorium on admitting males?

Anonymous said...

Reading this you would think at some point they would mention that these schools are heavily Asian. They act like Asians don't exist.

anony-mouse said...

Well to answer your question there is this person with an Erdos number of 4:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman)

Anonymous said...

"Why only until 1965?"

I take that to mean that that was when Jews started to acquire more political, financial, and social power and practiced ethnic nepotism to elevate their group.



Anonymous said...

"In other words, girls know how to game those other "benchmarks," but the tests tell the real tale. "

To a better degree certainly, the tests can be gamed too however the advantage is slighter. It wouldn't be a wrong assumption that test preparation differs between the genders too.


Meh.. I think a higher proportion of girls could be called diligent compared to boys, hence the better avg benchmarks. But a higher proportion of boys have raw brain power compared to girls, hence higher representation in high test scores.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if China's high male to female ratio has contributed to their technological surge. Internet porn has made being a eusocial R&D sweatshop drone more tolerable.
Pat Buchanan has said that after all these years of legal limits on births, the Chinese appetite for reproduction has waned. I take this as some evidence that the antinataliat might be right, that too much life causes suffering. Could it be that Coulter and Buchanan are closet antinatalists, though I'm sure they'd never admit it. Should we judge them by their behavior or their words?

Having a bunch of techno-eunuchs is probably a good national defense policy. We used to be pretty sure that in a non-nuclear war, our technology would trump their numbers, I doubt anyone believes that anymore.

Andromeda said...

"It is suspect that women live longer than men."

This one was clearly was due at least in significant part to major efforts by society devoted more towards women than men.

Until maybe a century ago or so, women had a lower life expectancy than men. Childbirth was a major killer of women, and major medical advances in childbirth drastically reduced the rate of women dying from childbirth.

We could of course add that women aren't expected to go into the military to defend their country, aren't expected to be the one to take the hit defending their family in the event of break-ins, aren't taught by society to deal with other males with violence, aren't encouraged to deal with stress and trauma with a stiff upper lip, etc. The list could go on....

H. B. said...

"I wonder if China's high male to female ratio has contributed to their technological surge. Internet porn has made being a eusocial R&D sweatshop drone more tolerable"

Pr0n is illegal there, not to mention filtered out by the Great Firewall.

On the other side, its very easy to find a girl who will go all the way at a massage parlor or bar if one has the right amount of $.

Al said...

"Having a bunch of techno-eunuchs is probably a good national defense policy. We used to be pretty sure that in a non-nuclear war, our technology would trump their numbers, I doubt anyone believes that anymore."

lol wut r u talking about

Anonymous said...

"I wonder if China's high male to female ratio has contributed to their technological surge. "

A 750 on SAT-Maths is 97th percentile score for the SAT taking populace(96 for boys and 98 for girls) and since the test is too damn easy, it can't resolve differences beyond that.
A 750 for whites alone is 98th, for asians it's mere 87th. The number would be even lower if you pull out the other asians.
Combine that with the joke of a maths curriculum at american schools vs the chinese drilling to get into better colleges and no exotic explanations necessary.

ogunsiron said...

Harry Baldwin said...
..How about every adolescent boy be legally required to have at least one homosexual experience, to prove that he at least gave it a try? This could be supervised by the government healthcare service.
===
I don't think this is far fetched.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there already are segments of the under 25 population in which not having experienced homosexual sex is seen as weird and maybe a sign of bigotry.
====
Another idea: how about babies in nurseries be randomly handed out to parents?
====
My prediciton is that the left won't be able to ignore genetics anymore. A younger generation of leftsts will embrace genetic engineering and they will push for babies being made up of mixed up genetic material from 100s of random people of all backgrounds.
Families will be handed those babies to raise. Thy will sever the link between parents and offsprings. Before implantation in an articifial uterus, the babies will be screened for personality traits linked with right wing or comservative ideas. They will go back to the eugenics that they used to love.

Anonymous said...

@namae I had to laugh when I saw Hyde was commenting on this as a psychology professor. Never seems like any of the concerned women about lopsided science and tech school ratios are themselves STEM people. Mostly just libarts writers and academics getting grant money to concern troll us.

We’re the last big game left on the reserve, the last area of academe for these people to make a living calling for more resources for women and decrying techies making dongle jokes. Of course they’re going to go after it, it doesn’t matter if more women actually want to be engineers or not, that’s beside the point to them.

candid_observer said...

Somewhat OT, but here's an interesting article, with even more interesting comments -- which gives one a peek into the heart of the academic mentality as represented by the so-called student affairs profession.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/03/22/white-men-alienated-higher-ed-workplace-survey-suggests

Anonymous said...

The emphasis on math is misplaced. Israel always places low in the math rankings but somehow is growing in tech. Why? Because they no longer emphasize math, they emphasize computer science in their high schools. According to TIME, Israel has what is widely regarded as the world’s best computer science education program for High Schools. And that is not tested internationally. As for the discussion of women in science, why not waste a few tens of billions designing programs to make women go into science, fail at it, and then double down with even more tens of billions. Then we can scream if anyone dares to propose cutting the programs - after all do you want less women in science? Sounds like a winner plan to me. Look for it.

Anonymous said...

I think a higher proportion of girls could be called diligent compared to boys, hence the better avg benchmarks.


I think its suspicious that girls only started doing better on certain tests at the same time that we started encouraging the test givers to give the girls better marks. I don't believe that girls would ever outstrip boys in any academic category if not for that discrimination.