June 7, 2013

"American Pravda:" Sibel Edmonds

With Turkey in the news, it's worth taking another look at Sibel Edmonds' charges about a corrupt cabal linking Turkey and the U.S. government. Ron Unz writes in "American Pravda" in The American Conservative:
During the mid-2000s I began noticing references on one or two small websites to a woman claiming to be a former FBI employee who was making the most outlandish and ridiculous charges, accusing high government officials of selling our nuclear-weapons secrets to foreign spies. I paid no attention to such unlikely claims and never bothered reading any of the articles. 
A couple of years went by, and various website references to that same woman—Sibel Edmonds—kept appearing, although I continued to ignore them, secure that the silence of all my newspapers proved her to be delusional. Then in early 2008, the London Sunday Times, one of the world’s leading newspapers, ran a long, three-part front-page series presenting her charges, which were soon republished in numerous other countries. Daniel Ellsberg described Edmonds’s revelations as “far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers” and castigated the American media for completely ignoring a story that had reached the front pages of newspapers throughout the rest of the world. Such silence struck me as rather odd. 
Philip Giraldi, a former CIA official who regularly writes for this magazine, suggested he investigate her charges. He found her highly credible, and his 3,000-word article in TAC presented some astonishing but very detailed claims.

Edmonds had been hired by the FBI to translate wiretapped conversations of a suspected foreign spy ring under surveillance, and she had been disturbed to discover that many of these hundreds of phone calls explicitly discussed the sale of nuclear-weapons secrets to foreign intelligence organizations, including those linked to international terrorism, as well as the placement of agents at key American military research facilities. Most remarkably, some of the individuals involved in these operations were high-ranking government officials; the staffs of several influential members of Congress were also implicated. On one occasion, a senior State Department figure was reportedly recorded making arrangements to pick up a bag containing a large cash bribe from one of his contacts. Very specific details of names, dates, dollar amounts, purchasers, and military secrets were provided. 
The investigation had been going on for years with no apparent action, and Edmonds was alarmed to discover that a fellow translator quietly maintained a close relationship with one of the key FBI targets. When she raised these issues, she was personally threatened, and after appealing to her supervisors, eventually fired. 
Since that time, she has passed a polygraph test on her claims, testified under oath in a libel lawsuit, expanded her detailed charges in a 2009 TAC cover story also by Giraldi, and most recently published a book recounting her case. 
Judiciary Committee Senators Chuck Grassley and Patrick Leahy have publicly backed some of her charges, a Department of Justice inspector general’s report has found her allegations “credible” and “serious,” while various FBI officials have vouched for her reliability and privately confirmed many of her claims. But none of her detailed charges has ever appeared in any of America’s newspapers. 
According to Edmonds, one of the conspirators routinely made payments to various members of the media, and bragged to his fellow plotters that “We just fax to our people at the New York Times. They print it under their names.” 
At times, Congressional Democratic staff members became interested in the scandal, and promised an investigation. But once they learned that senior members of their own party were also implicated, their interest faded.

[The original article has lots of links to documentation.)

I've looked into Sibel Edmonds' charges a couple of times and they seemed not unreasonable. Thus, they ought to be pretty interesting to Americans, but, evidently, they're not.

Unfortunately, I couldn't think of any way to either validate them or falsify them. 

I could also dream up scenarios in which the U.S. government activities she apparently stumbled upon weren't the blatant corruption they seemed, but were actually a Byzantine plot to furnish somebody the U.S. government doesn't like with disinformation on nuclear weapons in return for cash. Maybe the mainstream media has ignored the Sibel Edmonds story because they've been privately told by government officials that it's really a U.S. operation.

But how could you tell who is telling the truth?

Here's a question I've always wondered about: Exactly how do the back channels between the U.S. government and the commanding heights of the national media work? Does the editor of the New York Times have a phone number to call to find out if a story is okay to run with or they'd better spike it? Does it also work the other way: does the government call up the NYT and tell them here's this week's Biggest Story in the History of the World, like, say, the Epidemic of Military Rape? Or is it all much more poorly organized?

I haven't been reading enough spy thrillers lately, so I'm out of the loop on how this sort of thing works.

55 comments:

Whiskey said...

A number of times during Bush's presidency the NYT admitted that the CIA director or Bush himself had called and asked them not to run the story (examples: the CIA's private airline running detainees around the world and the "black" CIA detention sites). They ran it anyway. Had Lightworker Obama's people called, they would not have.

Why?

Because the NYT people are hard core Dems. And "Black leaders are magical" believers. It is a religious belief with them.

As for Edmonds claims, Aldrich Ames and that guy in the FBI, Hanssen, were spies for years before being uncovered even though many arrows pointed to them. Incompetence, old-boy-network backscratching, careerism (aka "not on my watch did I screw up") explains most of that.

As for why the stuff about Obama leaked out (to the British press, not the American) many theories abound: dead SEALs pals and dead Amb. Stevens pals settling scores for them, Obama giving explicit orders to TWO rescue teams to stand down so his re-election is not jeapordized is one. Another is true believers appalled that their Lightworker is a "god who bleeds" and nothing but a Chicago sleaze. Another is people afraid of a purge and damaging Obama so he can't institute a night of the long knives. Another is hackers/whistleblowers in retaliation for Bradley Manning. I'm sure I've left out a few: foreign spies penetrating/hacking the secrets and embarrassing weak Obama, or what have you.

Anonymous said...

Off topic, but within the bounds of the blog:

http://omg.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/shakira-genius-literally-230321038.html?vp=1

High IQ celebrities. Isn't that an oxymoron? I would think, if someone was smart in the sense of IQ they would focus their attention on something other than entertaining people, and in the case of most of these celebrities they entertain the left half or at least the left 90% of bell curve. Granted I hold entertainers/performers in low regard, just a step above the dregs of society.

Thoughts?

Anonymous said...

http://omg.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/shakira-genius-literally-230321038.html?vp=1

Smart latinos? This anecdotal evidence proves your blog wrong Steve.

anony-mouse said...

Edmonds was on a'60 Minutes' segment. That's hardly being ignored by the MSM.

Her name comes up in searches on both the NYT and the WaPost websites.

Anonymous said...

Here's a question I've always wondered about: Exactly how do the back channels between the U.S. government and the commanding heights of the national media work?

There recently was a good Netflix series devoted to illustrating how it works. I thought it was pretty believable.

Drunk Idiot said...

"Smart latinos? This anecdotal evidence proves your blog wrong Steve."

Don't stop with Shakira. Add another anecdotal example of evidence: Carlos Slim of Mexico, the world's richest man, and, no doubt, a really smart guy.

A Working Class American said...

sailer wrote:
"Thus, they ought to be pretty interesting to Americans, but, evidently, they're not."

=============

They are not interested because the mainstream media has not picked up on it. If the MSM did, the people would be interested.

hbd chick said...

@anonymous - "I would think, if someone was smart in the sense of IQ they would focus their attention on something other than entertaining people...."

this is one of the reasons i keep saying that there's more to hbd than just iq. we shouldn't forget about things like personality. shakira and madonna with 140+ iqs? ok, but what sorts of personalities do they have? histrionic by any chance?

Anonymous said...

As I understand it usually a high ranking official will call the editor/producer/news company president and ask them to quash a story for intelligence reasons.

The "bags of cash exchanging hands" scenario probably happens a lot. Simply paying for secrets was the preferred method of the Soviets to acquire information from the people who had it. The implication of that is that anyone with money, motivation, and a modicum of skill would use the same techniques to get or suppress information. See also the occasional blog-for-pay scandals that crop up, such as a certain writer that was blogging about Malaysia.

Lovely Malaysia, jewel of the China Sea. Sample the night life of vibrant Kuala Lampur!

Edmonds strikes me as someone who had general truthiness about something relatively mundane (FBI translators being shoddy in their work) and later inflated her claims.

Paul Rise said...

"Here's a question I've always wondered about: Exactly how do the back channels between the U.S. government and the commanding heights of the national media work"

It's called "public relations." It's performed by "public relations agencies."

Anonymous said...

Sibel Edmonds sounds plausible to me. When you really think about the last 12 years, does anything really make sense?

-OBL goes from a CIA conspirator to an anti-American terrorist.

-Bin Laden family has strong business ties to Bush family and the Saudi royals, but Bin Laden turns against Saudi Arabia and America?

-Bush administration repeatedly ignores NUMEROUS dire warnings (from FBI) of terrorist attacks.

-After 9/11, OBL denies responsibility. The on later tapes, he accepts responsibility.

-Bin Laden is cornered in Tora Bora, but somehow escapes. How?

-Taliban announces Bin Laden's death in Tora Bora. Why?

-Of the new Bin Laden tapes, many appear to be frauds. In one tape, the tape in which OBL takes responisbility, Bin Laden uses his right hand to write, despite being left handed.

-We go to war in Iraq due to imaginary claims of WMDs and Al Qaeda links. On numerous occasions, it's falsely stated that Saddam is working with OBL.

-Huge no-bid contracts go to Bush/Cheney cronies, like Haliburton.

-Ron Susskind writes a book in which he claims the CIA forged the yellowcake document.

-After Obama takes office, he keeps a US presence in Iraq and surges troops in Afghanistan.

-OBL turns up near a Pakistani military base. His body is immediately disposed of, with no pictures. Why? When Saddam and his sons were killed, their bodies were shown on tv and there was no immediate burial. Their bodies were also handed over to relatives. Why is OBL different?

-The story on OBL's death keeps changing. First story is Bin Laden fired at the SEALS, second story is he threw his wife at our SEALS, and now the story is he was unarmed. Why does the story keep changing? Obama and his team were viewing the mission as it unfolded. How could they get so confused so many times?

-No investigation is done by the govt or media into why OBL was hiding by a Pakistani military base, except to say that "rogue" elements may have been behind it. Seriously. WTH?

-OBL was a diabetic and also need kidney dialysis. How could he live that long fleeing our troops with all those serious medical problems? and with no modern hospital to see him and give him dialysis?

Anonymous said...

By the way, back when Sibel Edmonds made all these allegations, she claimed that Congressman Denny Hastert was taking bribes from Turkey.

Several years later, after Hastert retired, he took a lobbying job with a Turkish firm.

So it seems like she's legit.

Steve Sailer said...

I could see the argument that when it comes to Turkey, you don't really want to know how the sausage is made. Turkey is a hugely strategic country, yet it's managed to more or less sit out most of the trouble of the last 85 years, which is good. So maybe you don't want to know about American-Turkey relationships. Some bags of cash get exchanged, well, it's better than various possible dire alternatives for the buffer between Europe and Islam.

But I just made that argument up. I've never heard anybody else make it.

Ex Submarine Officer said...

Sibel Edmonds is, or at least was at some point, quite the extreme hottie. That means something. Hot chicks usually don't get involved in some long drawn out personal commitment drama like this.

Anonymous said...

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/commerce-dept-bats-for-pharma-exporters/article4778163.ece

Indian Commerce Dept doubling down on supporting generic drug makers despite new allegations of tainted drugs in India.

Anonymous said...

Sibel Edmonds is, or at least was at some point, quite the extreme hottie. That means something. Hot chicks usually don't get involved in some long drawn out personal commitment drama like this.

She was (is?) definitely quite the looker.

I remember reading once (probably on this blog) about how the few attractive women who choose to go grad school tend to be much sharper than their more dumpy peers. A woman will consider higher academia only when her intellect exceeds her beauty.

Anonymous said...

There is anyone that still believe in the OBL assassination? No pictures, no vídeos.... just Hollywood.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

-OBL goes from a CIA conspirator to an anti-American terrorist.

DVN: OBL never had anything to do with the CIA. He was an "Arab Afghan" , CIA dealt with the Afghan muhahideen. THe Afghan mujahideen were compelled to baby sit these Arabs and let them play holy warrior because their countries were pumping so much money into their struggle.

-Bin Laden family has strong business ties to Bush family and the Saudi royals, but Bin Laden turns against Saudi Arabia and America?

DVN: Mohd Bin Laden had some 50 children, of whom Osama was a minor one and yes a bad apple.
Bin Laden was the largest construction empire in the Middle East ,of course prominent people around the world did business with them.

-Bush administration repeatedly ignores NUMEROUS dire warnings (from FBI) of terrorist attacks.

DVN: This is news to me. What dire warnings specifically did FBI warn about. FBI and CIA get a lot of info but much of it is noise. It is often to hard to figure out which what info is legit and what is not.

-After 9/11, OBL denies responsibility. The on later tapes, he accepts responsibility.

DVN: He praised Allah for the attacks but may have denied it initiall to avoid calamity befalling his patrons the Taliban.

-Bin Laden is cornered in Tora Bora, but somehow escapes. How?

DVN: In what way was he cornered that his escape became impossible?

-Taliban announces Bin Laden's death in Tora Bora. Why?

DVN: When in 2002, or 2011?


-Of the new Bin Laden tapes, many appear to be frauds. In one tape, the tape in which OBL takes responisbility, Bin Laden uses his right hand to write, despite being left handed.

DVN: In the Middle East using your left handed for anything besides bathroom duties is considered improper. So he wouldve been trained to use his right hand whether he liked or not. Such people end up being ambi dexterous.
My mother was born left handed but this was a nono for my orthodox grandparents who trained her to use her right hand through the time honored practice of corporal punishment

Dr Van Nostrand said...


-We go to war in Iraq due to imaginary claims of WMDs and Al Qaeda links. On numerous occasions, it's falsely stated that Saddam is working with OBL.

DVN: It WMDs were not considered imaginary by most intelligence agencies in the world at the time.
Saddam had tentative connections with Al Qaeda.OBL connection was a shot in the dark
They had a common enemy so its not outside the realm of possibility


-Huge no-bid contracts go to Bush/Cheney cronies, like Haliburton.

DVN: There is only another company in the world who can do the kind of things LOGCAP could do - Schlumberger- a French company and that wasnt happening after their lack of support

-Ron Susskind writes a book in which he claims the CIA forged the yellowcake document.

DVN: Well if Ron Susskind says so....! case closed I guess

-After Obama takes office, he keeps a US presence in Iraq and surges troops in Afghanistan.

DVN: So?

-OBL turns up near a Pakistani military base. His body is immediately disposed of, with no pictures. Why? When Saddam and his sons were killed, their bodies were shown on tv and there was no immediate burial. Their bodies were also handed over to relatives. Why is OBL different?

DVN:Pictures may surface over the years. God alone knows what different security measures facilitated the display of bodies of Saddams sons vs the non display of Osama.
It could very well be that Obama didnt want to inflame the Muslim world by rubbing their nose in it.
And hence gave him an Islamic burial as well


-The story on OBL's death keeps changing. First story is Bin Laden fired at the SEALS, second story is he threw his wife at our SEALS, and now the story is he was unarmed. Why does the story keep changing? Obama and his team were viewing the mission as it unfolded. How could they get so confused so many times?

DVN:Never attribute to malice what you can to incompetence

-No investigation is done by the govt or media into why OBL was hiding by a Pakistani military base, except to say that "rogue" elements may have been behind it. Seriously. WTH?

DVN: Pakistanis are double crossing SOBs. No further explanation required

-OBL was a diabetic and also need kidney dialysis. How could he live that long fleeing our troops with all those serious medical problems? and with no modern hospital to see him and give him dialysis?

DVN: It is not that complicated to set up a dialysis machine in a cave or a shabby mansion

Dr Van Nostrand said...


High IQ celebrities. Isn't that an oxymoron? I would think, if someone was smart in the sense of IQ they would focus their attention on something other than entertaining people, and in the case of most of these celebrities they entertain the left half or at least the left 90% of bell curve. Granted I hold entertainers/performers in low regard, just a step above the dregs of society."


Being from India, I always used to think that traditional Indian people were orthodox killjoys when they felt that the entertainment industry is not a respectable or honorable profession .But then I was young

When I come across the idiocy, promiscuity,vacuity,self absorption,debauchery and,treachery from both Bollywood and Hollywood types I feel that I was an idiot and the elders were (again) vindicated

Look, a person with a high IQ may want to enter the industry because he would make more a screenwriter or actor in a few years than he would make in a lifetime as a STEM major.
Dolph Lundgren and Cindy Crawford both have masters degree in chemical engineering for instance

And yes both are flop actors ,however even as flopstars they have made more than they would even if they made it as the CEO of dupont

And also the movie industry is a very formidable IQ reducing machine.
Imagine you are surrounded by dunces and much of the work unless you are a writer is mindlessly repetitive and you are not just told by the director how to look and stand but how to FEEL!
And yes ,you will start feeling the character being loved,hated,betrayed,abandoned,raped and what have you again and again and again

And then later for another character and a different set of emotions

No wonder drug use is rampant!

Adam Smith also had something to say about why entertainers were paid so handsomely - he thought if they had to degrade themselves so thoroughly it did justify their earning large sums of monies

Of course, actors in traditional societies were not just a step above prostitutes. They quite often were prostitutes

One of the reasons the entire Roman Senatorial classes turned against Nero is not so much due to using Christians as night torches and other barbarisms but his degrading the imperial throne by performing on stage as an actor and singer.

sunbeam said...

Whiskey, I'm trying to analyze you to figure out where you are coming from.

It's not a major priority, but since it is in my nature I feel compelled to do it.

Since most of us post anonymously, it is obviously difficult, the best that can be done easily is to analyze through your written material and context.

Now, the question I ask you is simply in the nature of acquiring a data point. It would make the game more interesting for me, since I delight in forming theories. Also I'd like to say that I have no particular feelings about the ethnicity one way or the other.

But are you Jewish Whiskey?

Hunsdon said...

"Give it some attention, but don't play it up," said the man with the folder bulging with extracts from Carnivore, Echelon and PRISM. "We'll feed you something else."

Anonymous said...

I saw this from the inside, as one of the press people for a USG agency that deals with such issues. Steve’s “bat phone” suggestion between (say) Keller of the NYT and the WH takes something mundane and makes it mysterious.

Basically, any reporter working on a story about an issue that affects agency X will always call the press office of that agency. The best reporters try to develop sources independent of that, to go directly to people working the issues. But it’s always a violation of policy, and sometimes of the law, for such people to talk to the press without authorization (and supervision). And agencies go out of their way to put the fear of God into everyone that if you get caught, you will be disciplined and perhaps face criminal charges. Hence only the most fearless and/or ideologically committed will talk out of school.

That means that “message discipline” in these agencies is pretty strong and so the reporter has no choice but to call the press office. Then, if we think it’s in our interest to cooperate, we will, in various ways. If not, we stonewall or just ignore, or give out paltry little nothing tidbits and pretend we are being helpful.

Plus, it is a box the reporter has to check. They pretty have to, by the standards of their industry, ask for official comment. They can’t just not call.

So, when the call comes in along the lines Steve suggests—a potential revelation about a secret program—that will wend its way up the chain to various big-wigs. There is no “bat phone” from the editor NYT to the National Security Advisor or anything like that. Rather, the issue comes to sight to through a call from the line reporter to the press office and then works its way up.

It does happen, not often, that the government will ask that a story not be published. Sometimes the media complies. We have mentioned in this thread the famous instance of the NYT (e.g.) exposing wiretapping in 2006, and there was also the WPost exposing the “black sites” around the same time. Both were asked not to publish and they went ahead anyway. In the NYT case, I believe the President himself made his appeal to Keller in person to no avail.

But I also know of other cases where the appeal worked and media outlets did not publish what they had.

The standard tack in these cases, BTW, is for the government not to confirm or deny anything. What they will say instead is, “If it’s not true, you don’t want to publish it, because in that case you will be publishing false information, and that’s bad for you. If it IS true, you also don’t want to publish it, because then you’d be harming a viable operation.” Sometimes this works and sometimes not.

Re: spreading nuclear disinformation, that is a highly intelligent speculation. The USG has done this in the past. However, it is believed to have backfired, in that, to make the info credible it can’t be too wide of the mark. And once the target realizes it’s wrong, it can be used as a roadmap to what’s right. Plus, the target will often have outside help to suss out the quality of the information and point to the mistakes.

In one instance that I have heard about, reporters did get wind of such a story, came to the USG with it, and were talked out of publishing.

peterike said...

Smart latinos? This anecdotal evidence proves your blog wrong Steve.

Sadly for you, Shakira is Lebanese on her father's side and Spanish/Italian on her mother's side.

Once again: reality is racist.

peterike said...

Add another anecdotal example of evidence: Carlos Slim of Mexico, the world's richest man, and, no doubt, a really smart guy.

Carlos Slim's parents -- Julián Slim Haddad and Linda Helú -- are Lebanese Catholics.

Really, do you do ANY homework before spouting your idiot talking points?

Anonymous said...

Much of what Anon 9:53 says is a mixture of truth and falsehood. The CIA had no appreciable relationship with bin Laden during the anti-Soviet days; he was funded by Saudi groups. Zawahiri also denies there was any US/al Qaeda relationship, despite the fact that it would be a propaganda coup for them to prove otherwise. And it would have been extremely convenient to have killed bin Laden at Tora Bora. (Yeah, the ISI probably knew where he was at Abbotabad, but that's a a Pak issue, not a CIA issue.)

Edmond's claims seem inflated. For example, the claims of specific warnings of the 9/11 attacks were published on her web site on Feb 2011. Why wait so long? As a Turkish translator and only briefly employed I doubt she'd have access to the full range of traffic.

She was probably right about translators cutting corners in the FBI, and that some of them had dual loyalties to, for example Turkish intelligence. She got a taste of fame in that episode, liked it, and started making up stories to stay in the limelight.

Magic Underwear said...

"High IQ celebrities. Isn't that an oxymoron? I would think, if someone was smart in the sense of IQ they would focus their attention on something other than entertaining people, and in the case of most of these celebrities they entertain the left half or at least the left 90% of bell curve. Granted I hold entertainers/performers in low regard, just a step above the dregs of society.

Thoughts?"


They're focusing on the cash, fame and connections. Who is actually brighter, the 'true believer' who impoverishes himself to get a PhD in Sociology, goes to work for the peace corps and lives a life of humble servitude, or Arnold?

Jack Hanson said...

You might be interested, but now whistleblowers are saying Petraeus was taken out through illegal NSA email surveillance.

Jack Hanson said...

I guess the NSA whistleblowers are saying that Petraues got taken out through illegal NSA surveillance of his email.

Byzantine indeed.

Art Deco said...

Sibel Edmonds was a low level munchkin at the FBI for all of six months. I doubt she knows much. She has also been dining off this for a decade.

xederst said...

Her name comes up in searches on ... the NYT ...website

I just tried it for range last 12 months. No hits.

*****789 said...

Well, I just looked at Google's collection of Sibel Edmonds pics, and seems to me she falls well short of "hot." But then, I guess lots of people thought Audrey Hepburn was hot, too. Incidentally, the CIA has an Arabic translator who's really hot. She looks like Greta Schacchi in Presumed Innocent.

Anonymous said...

The US has on occasion spread true nuclear technology secrets. For example, Permissive Action Links, PALs, are pieces of technology that prevent nukes from going off accidentally or without authorization. It's widely rumored that the US has given that information to the Soviets and perhaps others.

Anonymous said...

Smart latinos? [ie Shakira] This anecdotal evidence proves your blog wrong Steve.

Never mind her mixed background, it's argument from anecdote, she is a single example and thus it doesnt prove anything wrong. Latinos remain less smart on average. You do understand whats meant by on average in this context?

Anonymous said...

-WMDs were considered imaginary by intelligence agencies. Scott Ritter and the UN inspectors told us there's no evidence of WMDs in Iraq. As did numerous foreign nations who opposed the Iraq war. Furthermore, Gregory Cochran pointed out that the Iraqi govt's budget was so small that it'd be too broke to have an active WMD program.

-Ron Susskind (a Pulitzer prize winning journalist) discovered that the CIA (under the orders of Cheney) fabricated the forged Niger document, which showed Iraq trying to buy uranium.

-Saddam had no connections with Al-Qaeda. You're feeding us the same BS all the neocons and politicians fed us in 2002/2003. The Saudis actually had pretty close ties to Al Qaeda, but they weren't invaded.

-Nothing is outside the realm of possibility. Fidel Castro could be working with China to do something devious. The point of foreign policy is to be realistic about threats - and Iraq was not a threat. The world knew it and our govt knew it. The Iraq war was done under lies.


-Haliburton and the other contractors engaged in massive amounts of waste and fraud in Iraq, which has never never been punished. Why? It's because these guys bribes Bush and Cheney. Simple as that.

-Ron Susskind has more credibility than Bush, Cheney, Feith, and all the other politicians who lied to us for years. Besides, Ron Susskind recently wrote a book critical of Obama. So he's hardly a partisan Democrat.

I'd invest more in him that all these idiots who told us about WMDs, mushroom clouds, and links to Al Qaeda.

-Why are we still in Afghanistan anyway?

-We didn't mind inflaming the Iraqis during the middle of the civil war, which was exceptionally ferocious. Why can we show Saddam and his sons' bodies, but not OBL? Our govt is obviously hiding the truth.


-Our govt should investigate who in Pakistan was hiding OBL. So much money and dead troops have been invested to find OBL. This is a serious matter......... Way worse than anything Saddam ever did. Really the Pakistanis govt are as bad as the Taliban, since they appear to have been hiding OBL for a decade............

-Then the Pakistanis should be punished as badly as Saddam and the Taliban.

-Actually kidney dialysis requires extremely clean conditions to set up, but anyway it seems unlikely for a man to be on the run for this long and to be getting regular dialysis. Somebody would've seen him and reported OBL in return for the huge reward on his head.............. Unless, OBL had been dead since 2001. In which case, he wouldn't need dialysis.

all hail Shakira said...

All Hail Donilon

HBD Q.E.D. said...

Who is actually brighter, the 'true believer' who impoverishes himself to get a PhD in Sociology, goes to work for the peace corps and lives a life of humble servitude, or Arnold?

Might makes bright

Anonymous said...

"High IQ celebrities. Isn't that an oxymoron? I would think, if someone was smart in the sense of IQ they would focus their attention on something other than entertaining people, and in the case of most of these celebrities they entertain the left half or at least the left 90% of bell curve. Granted I hold entertainers/performers in low regard, just a step above the dregs of society."

Fortunately, they don't care about what some pretentious dweeb like you thinks, nor do most people.

Anonymous said...

"Don't stop with Shakira. Add another anecdotal example of evidence: Carlos Slim of Mexico, the world's richest man, and, no doubt, a really smart guy."

Both of them are of Lebanese descent, not mestizos

Hunsdon said...

Sunbeam asked: But are you Jewish Whiskey?

Hunsdon said: Despite his inability to spell Pat Bukanon's name, Buchannon's name, Bucanone's name, whatever, that dude's name right, Whiskey is vociferous in his assertions that he is (wait for it) Scotch-Irish. Actually, I think that's where the whole "Scotch-Irish" meme originated, but I could be wrong.

David Davenport said...

-Actually kidney dialysis requires extremely clean conditions to set up, but anyway it seems unlikely for a man to be on the run for this long and to be getting regular dialysis. Somebody would've seen him and reported OBL in return for the huge reward on his head.............. Unless, OBL had been dead since 2001. In which case, he wouldn't need dialysis.

Ex-SEAL Team Six member Mark Owen was a one of the raiders who got Osama Bin L. in 2011. In his bookNo Easy Day, Owen says that the team's search of Binny's house in Abottabad found no dialysis equipment or any indications of kidney trouble.

Owen days say that they found some Clairol hair dye in the bathroom -- Osama's "compound" did have indoor plumbing. Owen also says that the deceased Osama's long beard was black and recently dyed, making OBL look younger than he appeared to be in some of his earlier videos. Younger but not prettier, because the corpse had a big hole in the head with brains oozing out.

Owen is sure that they got the right man, because Owen took DNA samples, which matched DNA samples of Binny's relatives. Owen also took photographs of the dead man and measured his height.

Some other SEAL Team Six man shot Bin Laden.

Owen doesn't say exactly why he quit the Navy, but he does complain about Leon Panetta as well as Obama blabbing names of Seal Team Six members and details of the mission and being slow to authorize the raid.

Owen does not directly say that the Paki government was not cooperating with the raid, but neither does he say that the Pakistanis were told about the mission in advance.

The book says that the SEALs had rather detailed information about the layout of Binny's house. It's easy to infer that an informant squealed the OBL's location. Furthermore, the Muslim Judas must have seen the inside of Binny's house or compound.

So much for intra-Muslim loyalty.

Anonymous said...

"Smart latinos? [ie Shakira] This anecdotal evidence proves your blog wrong Steve.

Never mind her mixed background, it's argument from anecdote, she is a single example and thus it doesnt prove anything wrong. Latinos remain less smart on average. You do understand whats meant by on average in this context?"

I was the original poster. Apparently some readers are so cynical they are incapable of realizing my play on words. Just look at the word "anecdotal" what do you think the connotation is in relation to the general theme of the blog?

Shakira and Slim have lebanese ancestry, but most people assume they are latinos. I'd also guess real latinos enjoy knowing that at least someone of supposed "latino" ancestry is remotely successful. Reference the isteve posts on white latinos for a refresher.

Jim said...

I remember reading the Sunday NYT and it had an article about this place in Waco, TX and a religious sect called the Branch Davidians. And wouldn't you know the next week the ATF showed up. I'm sure that a treasury person put the NYT on the story but I'm not sure what the mechanism would be.

Charlesz Martel said...

Ethnically a Lebanese Christian.

Anonymous said...

I hate to refight the details of the Iraq war in Steve's comments, but the Niger Uranium story didn't depend of forged documents.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/04/wowie_zahawie.html

Bin Laden wasn't on dialysis, and so on and so forth.

I sort of half believe that "Marc Owen" is a dangle operation designed to nab terrorists going after the SEAL Team that got Bin Laden. He's from a small town in Alaska, and has a somewhat unusual name, which makes dusky terrorists looking for him easy to spot. I'd more than half believe it if I thought the government was that competent.

Uh oh, I just googled his name, so his buddies are probably going to kick down my door in a moment.

Anonymous said...

If Shakira receives an endorsement contract for a product will she be marketed as a Latino or Lebanese Christian? Who is Shakira going to make her money off of, Latinos or Lebanese? Her handlers and marketers have positioned her as a Latin singer.

Sort of reminds me how one group positions themselves as one of us whites, but their wikipedia pages reference something else, wink wink.

A google search for "Shakira Latin" or "shakira latino" 12-13 million hits, "Shakira Lebanese" 800,000 hits.

sunbeam said...

David Davenport wrote:

"Ex-SEAL Team Six member Mark Owen was a one of the raiders who got Osama Bin L. in 2011. In his bookNo Easy Day, Owen says that the team's search of Binny's house in Abottabad found no dialysis equipment or any indications of kidney trouble.

Owen days say that they found some Clairol hair dye in the bathroom -- Osama's "compound" did have indoor plumbing. Owen also says that the deceased Osama's long beard was black and recently dyed, making OBL look younger than he appeared to be in some of his earlier videos. Younger but not prettier, because the corpse had a big hole in the head with brains oozing out.

Owen is sure that they got the right man, because Owen took DNA samples, which matched DNA samples of Binny's relatives. Owen also took photographs of the dead man and measured his height.

Some other SEAL Team Six man shot Bin Laden.

Owen doesn't say exactly why he quit the Navy, but he does complain about Leon Panetta as well as Obama blabbing names of Seal Team Six members and details of the mission and being slow to authorize the raid.

Owen does not directly say that the Paki government was not cooperating with the raid, but neither does he say that the Pakistanis were told about the mission in advance.

The book says that the SEALs had rather detailed information about the layout of Binny's house. It's easy to infer that an informant squealed the OBL's location. Furthermore, the Muslim Judas must have seen the inside of Binny's house or compound.

So much for intra-Muslim loyalty."

Yeah but all that can be interpreted in the following way:

1) We need a media event. The election is in a year or two.

2) We got this guy stashed in a safehouse in Pakistan. One of the guys we use to make our Bin Laden videos on demand. The real one ain't doing it from his freezer.

3) Let's whack him, that marketing campaign run its course anyway. I see Navy Seals, Helicopters, whole nine yards. There any way we can get a guy from Hollywood in to help us with this? I want it to come across just right. Close out this whole schtick with a bang, and tie up loose ends.

And since we set this whole thing up anyway, we know ALL about the layout of this safe house.

4) Unless Mark Owens can read DNA by running his hands over the sample, the DNA is what the lab says it is.

5) And we come back to the point that there is no body.

Charlesz Martel said...

What is your reasoning on this?

Horace Staccato said...

Well, you can't really believe anything Unz writes. He's one of the victims of the Leftist pathology and that the foundation for his belief system is nothing but lies and fantasies; especially when it comes to race and immigration, Unz is a rabid, starry-eyed fool.

I noticed it about a year ago when that leftist traitor, Ron Unz, started getting all "reasonable" and "common ground" and "Gosh that's a good idea (pick your leftist lie/fantasy)" with the evil leftists currently infesting the ruling elite.

Those cowards have decided to ignore the fact that Leftists and their lively, vibrant, diverse, parasitic wards are wrecking the U.S.

It's as if a guy came home to find a bunch of other guys tearing his house down and stealing his possessions and he just says something like, "Gosh, just look at that lively, vibrant energy and creative destruction. I should drop my pants and invite them to rape me while they're being so lively. Then we'll all sit down and discuss ideas and common ground."

It's astounding how far they will go now at AmCon to redefine cowardice as courage, and hostility as valuable friendship. This is the kind of cowardly denial that comes with a huge fear load combined with the "sanctimonious twit" syndrome.

Drunk Idiot said...

Re: "'Smart latinos? [ie Shakira] This anecdotal evidence proves your blog wrong Steve."

And:

"Never mind her mixed background, it's argument from anecdote, she is a single example and thus it doesnt prove anything wrong. Latinos remain less smart on average. You do understand whats meant by on average in this context?"

Anonymous (6/8/13 8:51 PM) wrote:

"I was the original poster. Apparently some readers are so cynical they are incapable of realizing my play on words. Just look at the word 'anecdotal' what do you think the connotation is in relation to the general theme of the blog?

Shakira and Slim have lebanese ancestry, but most people assume they are latinos...

Reference the isteve posts on white latinos for a refresher.
"

Maybe you'll have to start inserting smiley face emoticons into your comments in order to convey the message, "this is intended as humor -- don't take it literally."

I'd just assumed it was already clear enough, given the citation of the Beirut born Shakira and the corresponding "here's one piece of anecdotal evidence that completely destroys your entire argument, Steve -- you're totally pwn3d!!!" argument.

Hence, my citation of another Lebanese Latino celebrity, Carlos Slim, and corresponding "here's another bit of anecdotal evidence that totally destroys Steve's premise" and "Carlos Slim is Mexican, and he's the world's richest man, so he's gotta be pretty smart" arguments.

Apparently that stuff is too subtle, given the some of the subsequent responses. It is, however, always fun to get called an "idiot" by somebody who's completely missed your point.

That's par for the course at the Huffington Post and in the comments sections of NYT articles, but I didn't expect that to happen in the comments at iSteve.

Incidentally, that's one of the main reasons I use the "Drunk Idiot" moniker around here. It preempts (and toys with) the kinds of antagonistic commenters who are inclined to ascribe idiocy or drunkenness to those with whom they disagree.

It's usually obtuse liberals who make arguments along the lines of "I don't understand your point, and I disagree with it anyway because it doesn't fit easily into my 'liberal heroes fighting stupid rightwinger fascist villains' worldview, so you're an idiot."

But sometimes, people who aren't obtuse liberals make those kinds of arguments too.


Drunk Idiot said...

"If Shakira receives an endorsement contract for a product will she be marketed as a Latino or Lebanese Christian? Who is Shakira going to make her money off of, Latinos or Lebanese? Her handlers and marketers have positioned her as a Latin singer."

All very true, and good points. To a large degree, though, it's probably even simpler than that.

Ethnic origins aside, she was born in Colombia (earlier, I mistakenly wrote that she was born in Beirut [got to be careful not to begin slipping into "Whiskey" style definitive statements of things you think you know, but haven't checked out to make sure), she grew up in Colombia and she became a star in Colombia before becoming an international sensation.

So how else would she be marketed, other than as a Colombian/South American/Latina?

David said...

Here is a description of "King of the Hill" Episode 10 from Season 6 (from TV.com):

Peggy takes an online I.Q. test sponsored by the "Intelligence Institute of Texas," and is declared a genius. When the head of the Institute, Dr. Vayzosa, offers her a chance to get a PhD for only $900, she uses the family savings to pay for it. When Luanne takes the online I.Q. test and also scores as a genius, Peggy realizes that she has been conned, and she comes up with an elaborate sting to get the money back.

We can totally trust a Mensa press release tho.

fondatori said...

Based on the AC article I found Edmonds unconvincing for two reasons. First of all a translator is not necessarily going to know 'the background' of documents that need to be translated so making confident assertions as if she knows the full story of what is going on based on select transcripts does not seem credible to me. The feds would expect her to translate, not analyze and she would not know who was sincere, who was an agent and what were the facts behind truth claims in the documents she had to translate.

Secondly, by including crazy claims like drug smuggling using government planes I don't know how we are supposed to believe her more mundane statements. Would the Times really cover up drug-smuggling by Bush people?

foseti said...

"Exactly how do the back channels between the U.S. government and the commanding heights of the national media work?"

The laziness of the media should not be underestimated. A call to the media with a suggestion about what to report works wonders.

elaine said...

Conor O'Brien did something on the connection of the various media stations--that they all seemed to have the same script. I can't recall the details, because I don't watch his show; but what it boiled down to was, all the media channels tell the same story and work from the same script.
As to who orchestrates all this, remember: those you see are not the ones with real power. At best they have some influence. Goofy, empty, dead-eyed Obama is one of the least "powerful" people in the world. I have no doubt he is programmed 24/7. Some of the others, like Bush II even, were given some slack. Obama's too empty-headed for any slack. He'd collapse like an empty garbage bag if he were not propped constantly