June 13, 2013

Mysterious attack leaves Washington Post baffled

From the Washington Post:
‘Violence for violence’s sake is troubling,’ says cyclist attacked by youths on D.C. trail 
By Peter Hermann and Trishula Patel, Published: June 12 
The bicyclist doesn’t remember seeing the youths run at him as he pedaled home late Tuesday afternoon on the Metropolitan Branch Trail, but he certainly recalls one knocking him off his bike and at least a dozen others piling on, punching and kicking him in the head. 
What the 37-year-old can’t understand is why they did it. 
They didn’t take his $500 bicycle. They ignored his cellphone. They didn’t want the $20 in his wallet. In fact, the victim said, “I didn’t hear a word.” 
And the lack of apparent motive is haunting the married father of two, who uses the trail regularly to bike between his office in the NoMa section of the District and his house in Silver Spring. 
The randomness of the attack near Third and S streets NE — and near the location of a surge of violent robberies two years ago — has made him more scared and more angry and left him wondering whether it’s time to give up pedal power in his commute. 
“I would be fine if they took my things, that I understand,” said the man, recovering at home from broken bones above his left eye and bruises too numerous to count. “But violence for violence’s sake is troubling.” 
D.C. police said the attack by as many as 15 youths occurred about 5:30 p.m. in the Eckington neighborhood. As the cyclist passed a group standing to the side of the trail, one broke away and punched him in the face, knocking him to the ground, police said. 
Others joined in, police said, and then the youths ran south toward the NoMa-New York Avenue Metro station. Investigators are checking whether nearby surveillance cameras captured the attack. No arrests have been made. 
Cmdr. Andrew Solberg, head of the 5th Police District, called the assault isolated. He said officers patrol the trail on foot, bicycle and Segway. “I would like to reassure folks that the trail is very safe,” he said. “It’s very unfortunate that every once in a while there are acts of violence that take place.”

Fascinating sentence construction: "there are acts of violence that take place."
In 2011, communities along the trail organized volunteer patrols after attacks along a 1.5-mile stretch between Franklin and L streets NE, the same area where Tuesday’s attack occurred. 
They blamed youths for the assaults and robberies, including an incident in which a stun gun was used to knock a commuter off a bicycle and one in which a metal pipe was thrown at a 61-year-old woman, who was robbed of her purse and a book on Moses. One arrest brought that spate of robberies to a stop, police said at the time. 
Authorities said they do not think what happened Tuesday is part of a new wave of violence. The victim did not want his name published, and The Washington Post generally does not identify crime victims. 
The man said he cannot think of a single reason for the attack on the eight-foot wide paved trail, which he uses to save money, help the environment and get some exercise. “It was completely random,” he said. “I’m having a hard time understanding why this happened. There’s no answer. I want to feel comfortable using the trail.” But he said he is not sure whether he will use it again. 
“One kid just started running at me and hit me on the side of the head,” the man said. “The rest continued to pummel me while I was on the ground. . . . I’ve got no sense of anything I did or could have done to instigate it. I didn’t make eye contact with him. I didn’t even notice him running up to me.” 
The victim said few people were on the trail at the time, although he recalled passing a runner heading south and being passed by another cyclist going north. 
Of his money, credit cars and bike, he said, “I would have gladly given it all up.” 
Now, he’s faced with telling his daughters, ages 7 and 9, what happened to their daddy. “I’m not sure when I can show my face in public again.”

The psychological violation, the feeling of shame, that comes with being a crime victim is seldom discussed except in cases of rape, but it's there.

188 comments:

Anonymous said...

We live in the passive voice.

Start looking for it in crime stories, political stories, celebrity stories -- whatever. You will be shocked, and, if you are like me, horrified by how many of the world's events and activities now seem to have no identifiable movers.

Responsibility and duty are on life-support at best.

FeministX said...

Let me guess: young Negro males?

Should I have even bothered? IT's assumed to be so, right?

Anonymous said...

Liberal mugged by reality. He would have been happy to pay his youthgeld, but the youths did not give him the option. He really needs more Obama stickers on his bike to signal that he's on their side.

Anonymous said...

I feel no sympathy for this man.

Anonymous said...

This kind of thing never happens in Mexico City but it's distressingly common in America. I wonder what difference between the two countries accounts for that.

Anonymous said...

Let's relive some history.

Anonymous said...

It's their country now.

Anonymous said...

One would hope that he understands that such things are emphatically not random.

david davenport said...

Me myself, I would enjoy beating up white Left/liberal/Progressives if I could get away with it.

I take back what I just said! I didn't really mean it!

Whiskey said...

The guy was beaten by a bunch of "youths" aka Blacks, and he can't even name them. Or react like a normal human being. His desire to maintain social approval and dogma is higher than his own sense of manhood.

And this is why Whites are indeed as Derbyshire said, pussies. Whites will never fight, they are entirely too passive and dependent on social approval. A more sensible man recognizing reality would pay whatever it took to commute by car, avoid Blacks no matter what, and if attacked fight with ferocity because his life literally depended on it. And would take his exercise at home, safely, away from the street which is the province of "youths."

But again, social dogma and desire for continued approval is stronger than speaking the truth.

Anonymous said...

You're just Anti-Diversitic!

Stop it or the ACLU and the SPLC will be after you!

Rob said...

The psychological violation, the feeling of shame, that comes with being a crime victim is seldom discussed except in cases of rape, but it's there.

That's what gets me about feminists and their supporters getting angry about rape and those accused of it - the fact that they usually haven't the slightest sympathy with victims of other crimes. Even burglaries where nothing of value is stolen or damaged can leave the victim with a terrible sense of having been violated.

Anonymous said...

Hmm, what would have happened if he'd successfully fought back?

Oh right, George Zimmerman knows...

Anonymous said...

“I’m not sure when I can show my face in public again.”

What did he mean by this?

Kylie said...

From the article: “It was completely random,” he said. “I’m having a hard time understanding why this happened. There’s no answer."

Apparently the victim's attackers didn't knock any sense into his head.

The attack was in no way "completely random". I'm sure that he'll continue having a hard time understanding why this happened, though, because the answer is not one he is capable of understanding.

Anonymous said...

Modern reporting in action: be sure to leave out the obvious pertinent details, namely the races of the "youths" and the person attacked.

Anonymous said...

what is even more mysterious about this article is that the comments section was left open on the washing post.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like a case of youths behaving youthfully.

Mark Caplan said...

“The man said he cannot think of a single reason for the attack [...] 'I’m having a hard time understanding why this happened. There’s no answer.'”

Before reading that I'd have said naivete on so cosmic a scale couldn't exist in a sentient human being.

Chief Seattle said...

While biking I've had plenty of people honk, side swipe, or yell at me from cars. Then I stopped wearing the tight fitting lycra. None of that has happened since. I ride the same racing bike I had since my twenties. My personal theory is that a there's a certain kind of suppressed homosexual that sees a mans tight butt in lycra and uses anger to try and overcome their feeling of lust.

So maybe those youths were just on the down-low. Hard to tell since the wapo doesn't mention their race.

Anonymous said...

Another South Asian by-line at a major American daily - nice!

Anonymous said...

Carry oven cleaner (very caustic) to spray into assailants' eyes. Or carry an expandable (ASP-type) baton from Amazon. Fight back. How about yellow paint to mark the assailants, then call in the assault on your cell phone, "I've just been beaten up by 10 guys, three with a big yellow paint slash on their shirts."

Anonymous said...

Like the man in the report, I've been hospitalized by the diverse (dreamer rather than youth), for no reason beyond the fact that I occupied a shared public space. Thankfully, I never felt any shame or sense of violation. Perhaps it is because I was single, childless, and not a long term resident at the time. Accordingly, I was untroubled by the primal shame of a man who has failed to defend his kin or territory.

In any event, quiet humiliation is not the proper response. We should be furious at the powerful, for allowing and encouraging predation in previously civilized neighborhoods. There is no shame in living with the consequences of perverse policies decisions that are made without our approval.

-The Judean People's Front

Jack Hanson said...

YOUTHS!

I wonder if they know the substitution is up, or if they still think they're fooling anyone.

Anonymous said...

But I thought we lived in a glorious each according to his needs rainbow collective post racial utopia?

Auntie Analogue said...


On this "random" and "isolated" attack the Southern Poverty Law Center commented:


[ ...crickets.... ]

Elli said...

Funny thing about the comments on this article - most of them criticize black thuggery and the Post for omitting race from stories like this.

OTOH, the comments on the article about how death exceeded birth in native-born whites last year were largely cheering on the white decline and fantasizing about what an egalitarian, racism-free world it's going to be.

Anonymous said...

It's their country now.

This kind of gratuitous violence by "youths" has been going on for decades in America's cities.

Steve Sailer said...

"Let's relive some history."

http://isteve.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/was-mugging-of-matthew-yglesias-hate.html

Yeah, it looks a mile or two east of where Yglesias was the victim of a racial hate crime in 2011.

countenance said...

Duh, WaPo. It's Knockout Martin Luther King ("Knockout Game"), which was born in St. Louis.

Anonymous said...

When the "diverse" do it, its always "random". On the other hand, if 15 white kids assaulted and severely injured a random black passer-by, it would be a big hate-crime and there'd be a national outcry.

Anonymous said...

Amy Beale in Spandex.

Next, we will have a picture of him and his family comforting one or more of the apprehended 'youths', revelling in the opportunity for 'foregiveness' (ie self-hatred).

Outgroup altruism; the default posture of the modern useful idiot.

Anon.

Harry Baldwin said...

If he'd shot any of his attackers the media would be sure to identify them as "unarmed," as they always due with Trayvon Martin.

Talking about fighting back or spraying oven cleaner on a mob of a half dozen or more attackers is not realistic. It's not going to save you. Only a firearm would be of any use, and then you have to be prepared to be ground under the heel of the system.

I was at my local post office the other day and the one other customer was telling the clerk why he had a gash over his temple. He had been pushing his toddler in a stroller along a bike path when a youth of about 13 ran out from the bushes at the side, smacked him in the head with a padlock-in-a-sock or some such weapon, and ran off laughing. He was in a borderline neighborhood when this happened.

No need to ask the race of the youth--only one race does things like that.

He reported the assault to the police but this sort of thing gets no coverage.

Orthodox said...

The psychological violation, the feeling of shame, that comes with being an SWPL, it's all there. He's ashamed to be attacked by a pack of youths because he voted for Obama and didn't do anything racist. He even followed protocol and acted like a dhimmi in their presence. He's may also feeling shame for his crime thoughts. He has been mentally raped. If he is full SWPL he will make a donation to the SPLC and direct his hate towards the wrong sorts of white people.

Anonymous said...

The idiot doesn't understand some people are just anti-social, hateful, violent?

How'd you like to be his girls? Some dad, some protector, some male.

I feel contempt for him.

Unknown said...

Upton Sinclair had the explanation for the Post's affected cluelessness,
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

a woman said...


"Before reading that I'd have said naivete on so cosmic a scale couldn't exist in a sentient human being."

I've long since stopped believing progressives/liberals are "sentient human beings."

Anonymous said...

No they honk at you because you are the equivalent of the forty year old who shows up to play basketball with a Lebron jersey on. If Tour de France bikers wore loose fitting clothes then no one would give lycra clad bikers any problems at all. But instead you insist on dressing like professionals athletes but ride at the speed of some old timey Victorian guy riding in the park.

Its like the guy with the 2000 dollar irons who can't golf. If it threw on suspenders a riding cap and wool pants and drove around on one of those bikes with two different size wheels I would get beat up. You look just as ridiculous in your Lycra. Unless you are drafting for Lance just wear normal clothes.

Anonymous said...

"Diversity is our strength and our redeemer!"

Dave Pinsen said...

A few youths attacked a 65-year-old cyclist in Philly last year. He was armed and shot two, killing one. The third youth was arrested. And no charges were filed against the shooter.

If that happened a few times in D.C., the frequency of these attacks would probably decline precipitously.

Porter said...

Youths now filling retirement homes.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

I'll tell you what needs to be done, Steve, but most likely you'll censor me.

Chicago said...

His money, credit cards and bike he "would have gladly given it all up." Really? Gladly? I feel like robbing this bozo myself; cash and a bicycle just for the asking, who could resist that? He seems to have difficulty understanding things so therefore, as a slow learner, additional instruction is called for. The same youths should be called back for repeat performances, again and again, for however many times it takes for him to catch on. Learning isn't always easy. It might be called punch therapy, enlightenment through slugging.

Anonymous said...

Youths.

Anonymous said...

I guess you could that he had a "vibrant" experience with "Diverse-Americans."

boer said...

We've just been through an armed robbery here in South Africa.

You need to take charge, coz blacks only respect PERSONAL power.

Get sharp, learn to read the street culture, take self-defense training, grow muscles. Learn to NEVER be afraid of them.

Anonymous said...

"If he'd shot any of his attackers the media would be sure to identify them as "unarmed," as they always due with Trayvon Martin."

This is just not true. The media almost always give sympathetic coverage to whites who were forced to use lethal force to defend themselves against black predators. The Martin-Zimmerman incident was different because, given the scant details available initially, it looked as if Zimmerman might have engaged Martin in a way that provoked a physical confrontation between the two. It wasn't a case of a white person minding their own business and being targeted for violence, robbery, etc., by a black.

Ex Submarine Officer said...

Mug him again.

Anonymous said...

But again, social dogma and desire for continued approval is stronger than speaking the truth.

To some extent it's difficult to label this guy a pussy. No matter what this guy does, he has several young children which depend on him. It's all very well to want to opt for the Clint Eastwood solution, but if he does so and lands in jail, who will feed and clothe his children?

It would be different if he was a bachelor. Still, I think at least if I were in his situation I would name the race of the "youths" involved.

The Legendary Linda said...

I must admit I've been guilty of violence myself. When I first started making really big money and became known as a successful entrepreneur, I was nice enough to teach an MBA case course at an ivy league university.

To my utter astonishment, my offer was declined, when a hoity toity professor and his professor wife objected that as a high school dropout, I lacked the credentials to teach at an ivy league school.

Excuse me! I make more in a week then these people make in a year and they had the audacity to look down their nose at me, and adding injury to insult, they did so publicly.. The only way to save face was to humiliate them publicly and as brutally as possible.

I waited for a major event when they were being honored in front of thousands of alumni and discreetly paid all security to buzz off.

I walked on to the stage uninvited. "Linda what are you doing here?". They. Looked nervous, and rightly so.

I took off my belt and proceeded to whip them both 67 times as the audience screamed in horror until both were sobbing hysterically and being rushed to the hospital. They too never got over the shame of being the victim of a violent crime, by an extremely tall, but extremely skinny woman. They were too humiliated to show their faces on campus again, and too humiliated to press charges, and to this day, I now teach at that university.

Anonymous said...

In fact, the victim said, "I didn’t hear a word."

The good SWPL is almost certainly lying. A dozen of youfs attacking a random white in complete silence is pretty much impossible.

Jim Bowery said...

Anthony Burgess was a prophet!! Dystopia is here! You can see it all around you: Gangs of drugged up youths engaging in wanton sex living in squalid housing projects with graffiti committing acts of ultraviolence.

OK, so they aren't white gangs and they aren't likely on psychedelics, but you know what I mean...

Anonymous said...

"The media almost always give sympathetic coverage to whites who were forced to use lethal force to defend themselves against black predators."

6/13/13 11:17 PM,how is that possible when the vibrant multicultural experiences are always described as being perpetrated by 'youths'?


They will neither describe them as predatory,nor as black. A picture of the white who defended his or herself is usually shown,but the racial identity of the person responsible for the youthful experience is always suppressed,if possible.


Also,off-topic but if you haven't already, get in the habit of referring to all black-skinned persons as 'youths' or 'teens' in any comment section of any libtarded news outlets you're on.Put it in quotes whenever possible.

When they report "youth" violence,respond with something like:
"'Youths' (wink,wink), gotcha. Reading you loud and clear!"

Or,alternatively:

"So what you're saying is we need to watch out for 3 "teens" (wink,wink) named Odell,DeMontray,and Tyrese. Will do."

They're going to have a mini-chimpout when they know for sure that we know.They can't keep switching from word to word forever. Eventually,it will have to come out.

We can wrench the ugly truth out of them,by mocking them with their own disingenous words.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

re the cop's use of passive voice

Reminds me of the Theodore Dalrymple column

"The knife went in"

http://www.city-journal.org/article01.php?aid=1371


My alltime favorite use of the passive voice must be this

"A fight broke out, a gun arrived, I accidentally took it and it went off."

http://www.socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/002042.php

Anonymous said...

If a bunch of white kids beat up a black person, the reason would be obvious. HATE.

But when a bunch of black kids attack a white person, the racial angle vanishes, and a bunch of 'youths' done it. Besides, how can blacks feel any hate when even a mountain-sized negro only wants to love a wittle biddy white mouse.

It's like Ken Burns seeing Jack Johnson as some folk hero who only beat up bad 'racists' but would never touch a goody good white liberal like him.

In other words, "I can understand and even condone black kids beating up evil whites like the kids in Jena or Zimmerman, but why me? I'm a goody wiberal who voted for Obama and go wee wee in my pants over MLK."

Such wiberals don't understand that while mulattos like Obama act nice to him cuz they got something to gain, lots of blacks aint gonna get shit in the new order.
To them, the rise of Obama just means one thing. White boys are pussyass and worship a black dude; easy hunting. Blacks don't respect weakling wussies.

Too bad this guy isn't a fruiter. He could at least get 'homophobia' out of it.
Instead, dumbass just doesn't get it.

Anonymous said...

"The media almost always give sympathetic coverage to whites who were forced to use lethal force to defend themselves against black predators."

When?

Anonymous said...

They were walkocentrists opposed to wheeled machines?

Anonymous said...

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/can-us-chinese-relations-be-saved-8589

Anonymous said...

It's about race but that's not really what matters. You people get too emotional about the fact that you are white and the attackers were black teenagers.

To put things in perspective here's a reflection by an Irish columnist on the murder of two Polish men by youthy loafers.

"It seems clear to me that there was an element of racism involved in the murders ... but it’s also clear to me that that is the least of our worries. What is really worrying is that we are producing young teenagers that are capable of such extreme, bloody violence, almost like they were in a Tarantino movie. What does that say about the way society in Dublin — and in Ireland — is going?"

"They don’t want to make any effort. And hyped up on drugs and computer games, they are capable of anything."

"It’s a sordid, violent and vicious world in which stabbing someone to death with a screwdriver because of an imagined insult is possible, even for a young teenager. Our welfare state has robbed this underclass of any sense of achievement. They are brutalized and dumbed down, a vicious underclass with no ambition, no ability, no compassion and enormous frustration."

http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irish-voice/spain/Articles/The-Polish-Murders-in-Dublin080308.aspx

That's much more level headed analysis. Random attacks are common across Anglophone countries. In Australia, youthy white loafers randomly attack strangers on the street. In England, there's an epidemic of these attacks even in places like Oxford.

The attacks are racial but they fit into another mold across English speaking countries. That's the real interesting issue.

Why are so many underclass kids in the English speaking world dumb, violent punks?

Anonymous said...

Future of the white race

SFG said...

"It would be different if he was a bachelor. Still, I think at least if I were in his situation I would name the race of the "youths" involved."

No you wouldn't, and we all know why. Because then you'd be outed in the media as a 'racist', which is worse than any crime. Or they wouldn't cite you at all, in which case the incident would simply be forgotten.

Anonymous said...

"I was gang-raped but no one took my purse. Gee, so why did it happen?"

Jonathan Silber said...

The victim may well have identified to the reporter the race of his assailants; and the reporter, acting under the dictates of newspaper PC, omitted them.

I trust no account by the PC media of an incident involving any so-called minority.

Good God: it's as though we live in the Soviet Union and get our news from Pravda.

phil g said...

Chief Seattle:

The fact that race identification is notably absent is a tell that the race is black.

The poor, naive victim is suffering from cognitive disequilibrium because he's been programmed to see blacks as innocent victims of white man's crimes thus giving him immunity because he sympathizes with them. He's also confused by the civilized educated blacks that he works with and who choose to live in white neighborhoods and the good looking blacks that he sees in the movies and on TV news. He's totally oblivious to the vast violent underclass of blacks lurking around DC.

It takes a massive amount of denial to not notice that the vast majority of social pathology and violence is directly correlated to the presence of large black populations and large black populations = underclass. Who's to blame? Who cares, facts are facts.

This is just another case of a liberal literally being mugged by reality.

Anonymous said...

Interesting angle on the Eight Banditos and the hispanic backstory. Personal stuff on the line:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/13/193858/miamis-leon-fresco-the-immigration.html

phil g said...

I have two girls, live in the Atlanta area where there's a large black population, and have many discussions about blacks and the need to differentiate between the issues and dangers of black populations in general and the ability to befriend blacks individually where the demonstrate normal socialization and come from good families.

They have a couple of black girl friends who come from good homes and do not exhibit any of the black cultural traits and yet are repulsed by the broader black riff raff in their class and around their school. Their black friends are also repulsed by their crude black classmates as well.

Just Another Guy With a 1911 said...

Truly, what a pathetic specimen of humanity. How does someone live in such profound denial of reality even after he has his face shoved in it? It is a particular type of stupid that cannot be fixed.

I know events like this are disquieting as they bring into stark relief the truth that few are brave enough to acknowledge: things are really, really starting to fall apart around the edges and that the center, Western Civilization, is probably not going to hold. I too would rather reside in the halcyon utopia of Steve's youth, but, alas, we are living in a world that is equal parts Blade Runner, Brazil, 1984, and Mad Max. It sucks, but there nothing to do but be of good cheer and meet the world we live on its own non-negotiable terms.

As such, I would suggest that anyone who can obtain a concealed carry permit, no matter how much red tape you need to go through. Then, buy a gun, carry it daily and at all times, including in the house. Make sure to practice with your gun as much as you can, including force on force training.

Also, make sure you know the self defense laws of whatever jurisdiction that you are in like the back of your hand.

Reduce the chance of having to use your new found skills and knowledge - avoid stupid people doing stupid things at stupid times and always maintain situational awareness.

And finally - when the day comes and the cops show up - remember - they are NOT there to help you, so shut the hell up and ask to speak with your lawyer.

Matthew said...

"Carry oven cleaner (very caustic) to spray into assailants' eyes. Or carry an expandable (ASP-type) baton from Amazon."

Or carry a 9mm with plenty of rounds. The minute more of these guys start getting the Bernard Goetz treatment, the minute more of them decide to find a different hobby.

JMurray51 said...

I think this comic expresses the victim's possible reaction to our comments quite well.

http://www.vexxarr.com/Index.php

Satay on rice said...

More of those faceless, colorless, genderless youth again. I see more and more incidents of these in the paper. Since it can't possibly be black or Hispanic youths as they are innocent angels, and it isn't whites or Asians or the story would have jumped at the opportunity to say so, I must conclude that there is either a slow, hidden extraterrestrial invasion going on ALA "They Live", or else, the "Not Me" ghost from Family Circus is alive and well.

Anonymous said...

I live and work in Southern MD and you don't hear of these types of stories and it has nothing to do with guns. Down here the White men are still mostly masculine and will give as good as they get.

Attackers size up their prey. I suspect the victim was an effete man a la Chris Hayes or Matt Yglesias. The youths seeing this simply pounced.

Hunsdon said...

rob said: Even burglaries where nothing of value is stolen or damaged can leave the victim with a terrible sense of having been violated.

Hunsdon said: Yes. When we were moving to a new home, the old one was broken into and ransacked. Nothing particularly valuable was lost, but I felt abused.

Whiskey blathered: Whites will never fight, they are entirely too passive and dependent on social approval.

Hunsdon said: That's the district, Whiksers. There's a reason things like that are much more rare in "real America."

Auntie Anologue mentioned the SPLC.

Hunsdon said: The only question in my mind is whether they thought the cracker, or the goy, had it coming.

Ex Submarine Officer suggested: Mug him again.

Hunsdon said: The muggings will continue until cognition improves.

Junius said...

In my youth, I used to wonder what the Jim Crow Laws were all about. How could any civilized society ever enact such racist and restrictive laws? That was a time when most of my exposure (and probably most other whites) to blacks and their culture, was watching the urbane Negroes on TV - like Bill Cosby, Sydney Poitier, etc.

Now that I'm older and experienced, both peripherally and first-hand to black culture, I've come to think that perhaps those laws were put in place by a society who had centuries of experience with Negroes and knew that, post-emancipation, regulation was required for a culture that regularly misbehaved and was prone to criminality and irrational violence.

If the next stage (as described by Orlov) is economic and political collapse, to be closely followed by social collapse, what will be the solution to deal with a underclass that is, to a large extent, already out of control? Establishment of Bantustans?

Maybe there is no solution. As Kathy Shaidle likes to say, "should of picked our own cotton".

Evil Sandmich said...

The Martin-Zimmerman incident was different because, given the scant details available initially, it looked as if Zimmerman might have engaged Martin in a way that provoked a physical confrontation between the two.

That is interesting and I hadn't thought of that. Usually when a gun is used in self defense the press usually buries it because they don't want to give the impression that firearms actually work for self defense.

Zimmerman had a slight history of a hothead and wanna be vigilante and this was, unfairly, drummed up to cast him as some loon cruising the streets looking for someone to shoot up.

cecilhenry said...

"It would be fine if they took my things, that I would understand."



Well NO, that is not something that I would understand, or consider acceptable.

These parasites cannot take my things anymore than they can take my freedom.

Not something wise to be allowing: SURE come along and take all my stuff, that's okay.

NOTA said...

It's easier to understand and accept a crime committed for material gain than a hate crime or a random ass kicking for the sake of kicking someone's ass. I can see exactly why someone wants my ipad or my wallet--it makes sense, I'd want those things too, even if I wouldn't mug someone to get them. But just beating the hell out of someone because it would be fun to beat up a white guy, or because you just like hurting people, that's a lot harder to absorb somehow. Honestly, in order to work up a serious enough dislike of someone to want to beat the hell out of them, I pretty much need to know them--not just notice that they're bicyclist of the wrong race in my neighborhood.

The macho BS about fighting back is keyboard tough-guy-ism. If you are jumped by a half a dozen guys, there is probably not a hell of a lot you can do to fight them off. Even a gun isn't necessarily going to save you. You are sure as hell not going to take them on with muscles and karate and a can of oven cleaner. Try running away if you can, it's a much better strategy than trying to pretend to be Jet Li.

The hard thing to figure out is, what the hell do we do about it? Put the perps in prison when we catch them, sure, but we have a huge fraction of our population in prison, including something like one in nine black men between 20-34. It's not like we haven't been putting people in prison.

My guess is that neither diversity nor walkable/bikeable cities are consistent with unsafe streets. If there are many random attacks like this, everybody prefers to drive everywhere and to move to a nice safe suburb where the evil racist police seem to stop every car full of "youths" and search it from top to bottom for any excuse to arrest them. if we went back to the crime rates of the 70s, the trendy concern with walkable and bikeable cities would evaporate overnight.

Mr. Anon said...

"Chief Seattle said...

While biking I've had plenty of people honk, side swipe, or yell at me from cars. Then I stopped wearing the tight fitting lycra. None of that has happened since. I ride the same racing bike I had since my twenties. My personal theory is that a there's a certain kind of suppressed homosexual that sees a mans tight butt in lycra and uses anger to try and overcome their feeling of lust."

Perhaps it's because so many of our modern two-wheeled spandex-warriors act like dicks - taking up a whole lane, while languidly peddaling along on their "racing bike" (if it's a racing bike, how come they always go so damned slow?) backing up traffic ten cars deep.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

I feel no sympathy for this man."

I admit it's difficult to feel much sympathy for homo eloiensis. Any word on what this guy does for a living? Is he perhaps involved in the "social justice" industry? He just got a big dollop of social justice.

Edward Waverley said...

"Even burglaries where nothing of value is stolen or damaged can leave the victim with a terrible sense of having been violated."

Rape hasn't always carried an exclusively sexual denotation. Indeed, it was far more often used to connote robbery prior to the 19th century. Example, Alexander's Pope "Rape of the Lock" is not about the molestation of a padlock. It's about the purloining of a maiden's tress of hair which, in that day and age, would have been tantamount to today's "rape". As morals have declined, so have the words used to reflect them. But the spike in coercive sexual violence should not blind us to the similar horror that comes from any form of attack upon home or person. Burglars are home rapists. "Youths" out on a polar bear hunt may not violate their victim's sexuality, but they certainly rape his sense of physical well being.

Polichinello said...

No matter what this guy does, he has several young children which depend on him. It's all very well to want to opt for the Clint Eastwood solution, but if he does so and lands in jail, who will feed and clothe his children?

True, but he should at least show some situational awareness. The story notes that the area has seen a number of robberies and attacks, so maybe riding alone through that dodgy overpass isn't a real hot idea.

Suburban_elk said...

Getting beat badly by a gang is traumatic. What the victim says shortly afterward is not an indication of his true feelings. There will be anger and resentment that will last for years if not forever; in some people it will harden up. Condemning this guy for being a spineless sap is easy and quick, but check back with him in a few years.

On the sub topic of bicyclists being harassed by motorists - it is maddening. In the suburb where i live, which is adjunct to one of the supposedly most bike friendly cities in the country (not Portland!), people in cars react to a bike like they are seeing a moose.

There is resentment on their part. In spite of the glamour of a fast Mustang of something, most people in cars feel trapped; someone on a bike is at least outside, and exercising and his blood is pumping. Also those in cars are protected in a cage of steel and glass, and feel safe from reprisals, and now that people are become less sympathetic to one another - the joys of multi racialism, the cascading effects of incivility - every one is looking for someone to shove. Oh look a guy on a bike!

But also there is the phenomenon of, what is noticed. A thousand cars pass with courtesy and respect, and one will honk or shout something, and that is remembered.


Mr. Anon said...

"Jack Hanson said...

YOUTHS!

I wonder if they know the substitution is up, or if they still think they're fooling anyone."

I think what the press means by "youths" is more like this: We know we're lying. You know we're lying. We know you know we're lying. F**k you!

So much of elite, official, and/or establishment communication with the public - when decoded - amounts to nothing more than this......F**k you!

Suburban_elk said...

No doubt that in looking for a victim, "youths" look for a type. Obviously weak and easy, but more to the point, someone who looks like "whitey". Someone above said learn street culture; yes. Un ironically, one of the best and quickest ways to learn about street culture is to get your ass beat.

The website nononsenseselfdefense has the best take that i have read about the attitudes involved.

pat said...

When I read that no one said a word and I saw that the attack was next to Gallaudet I figured it had to be another attack by the roving hordes of the deaf.

Actually it reminded me why I got out of Urban Planning. I remember way back then feeling jealous when a fellow planning student got more praise for his planning project than I got for mine. He did it right while I stumbled about looking for something appropriate within the purview of 'Planning'.

He had created a plan for bike paths all over Washington DC. That was a very Planning appropriate kind of project. This poor guy in the news today probably was attacked on one of my colleagues bike paths.

In Urban Planning it is good to manipulate the physical environment but it is bad to think about race.

Whiskey is wrong about the meekness of whites - except in the short run. Currently white people are indeed inappropriately peaceable. But things can change.

The !Kung in South Africa are called the "Peaceful People". They exhibit no aggression of any sort. But in the memory of living man they were once noted for their constant warfare like the Yanomami. There is no violent crime today among the descendants of the Vikings who live in Minnesota or Sweden. But they could quickly revert to their former practices. They could be carving 'Blood Eagles' again.

All peoples are violent and aggressive when conditions warrant. There were a lot of Jews in Germany in the early twentieth century because Germans were so tolerant. Then it changed.

A lot of white people are beginning to think that black people and their advocates have been playing them for suckers. If and when white people wake up I'm quite sure they will be sufficiently nasty.

Albertosaurus

Anonymous said...

“I would be fine if they took my things, that I understand,” said the man, recovering at home from broken bones above his left eye and bruises too numerous to count. “But violence for violence’s sake is troubling.”

But violence for his "things" is not troubling? What kind of pussy...

Rohan Swee said...

He would have been happy to pay his youthgeld...

"Youthgeld". Good one.

Anonymous said...

"Youths" seems to be the approved code-word for "blacks" these days.

Barack Obama is half-youthful.

Michael Vick has very "youthful" skin.

Piper said...

He can't speak the race of the youths. For one, the paper wouldn't print it if he did (for all we know he did say it, but following the injunction in the stylebook the journalistas omitted it). Second, the guy would be ostracized by his social circle if he said anything coherent. If he had been mugged by a Finn that would have been okay, but anyone who reports being attacked by a person or persons of diversity confesses he is a liar and a racist, since everyone knows that all diverse persons are innocent victims of racists who falsely accuse them of crimes to justify discriminating against them. As the Lion of the Blogosphere has explained, nothing is more evil than racism.

Alfa158 said...

Dave; the 65 year old bicyclist was black like his attackers. It is possible that that is why he was not charged.
Regarding the suggestion someone made for using oven cleaner, (or as other people suggest, bug-spray) for self-defense, check your local laws. In some jurisdictions it is illegal to use a caustic or poisonous material for self-defense unless it is a product like pepper spray specifically made for that purpose.

Anonymous said...

"It would be different if he was a bachelor. Still, I think at least if I were in his situation I would name the race of the "youths" involved." - that is basically what we want here. If the races had been just a little more random(say 10 whites vs 1 black), he'd be the first to declare it was anything but random.

Hacienda said...


Responsibility and duty are on life-support at best.

---------------------

Stop the sentimentalism.

It ended with the thoughtless destruction of the ecology. And that goes way back.

BTW, I'm not blaming whitey here. (At least not entirely.)

JSM said...

MKP: Okay, makes sense.

Just be sure, while you're campaigning for the 20-something gals to hurry up and marry their quality boyfriends and get preggers, make sure you also campaign for the non-quality guys to marry and impregnate the 35-y-o washed-ups--and DO IT NOW while they ARE still fertile.

Our demographic crisis absolutely requires it.

fnn said...

Black crime in gay Paree:

http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2013/06/easy-justice.html
Last March 16, a gang of twenty thugs attacked a train of the Regional Rail D line at the Grigny station. The passengers were stripped; several of them including women and adolescents were beaten. The juvenile court of Evry, that handled this case, handed down very light sentences on Wednesday (June 12): the eleven who were indicted received mere warnings, or public service assignments, or in the best cases, a suspended prison sentence.

The announcement of the verdict created a scandal, with some seeing it as evidence of an intolerably lax French justice system. The Front National, in a communiqué, deemed that "the sentences handed down are clearly an encouragement to continue and repeat."

For deputy Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, "the gangrene of lax policies is corroding us. With Mme Taubira as Justice minister, the judges have no safeguard. The prize goes to the most indulgent judge." His anger is shared by the Socialist mayor of Argenteuil, who is asking for a toughening of legislation for juvenile criminals.

(..)

ah said...

It's times like this I really miss Larry Auster, because this article is an Auster-special.

It has everything that Larry used to skewer so corrosively. "Random" "I don't understand", an idiotized Eloi incomprehension of reality, passivity: "“I would be fine if they took my things, that I understand," lying about the race and even the gender of the attackers, etc.

RIP Larry. I really couldn't stand you when you were alive, but I miss you now.

Anonymous said...

'Mug him again.'

Mind mugged by GLUES(globalist liberal urban elites), body thugged by 'youths'.

Paging Dr. Johnson! said...

We live in the passive voice.

Presumably this is in reference to the sentence "there are acts of violence that take place." But neither of those verbs is passive in the formal sense (i.e, "acts of violence are committed").

People frequently use the technical expression "passive voice" when they really mean "impersonal constructions" (e.g., ones that leave out the agent of the action but aren't formally passive, like "there are acts" and "acts take place").

Of course, one purpose of using the passive voice is to leave out the agent (there are other reasons for using the passive). The vague constructions here are clearly used in the same way to avoid having to say who committed the act. But they aren't "passive."

Anonymous said...

It's all very well to want to opt for the Clint Eastwood solution, but if he does so and lands in jail, who will feed and clothe his children?

It would be different if he was a bachelor.


Why different for a bachelor? Who will feed and clothe the bachelor's future children? Will he be able to have any future children if he acts differently than here?

Still, I think at least if I were in his situation I would name the race of the "youths" involved.

He could at least assert that it was a hate crime, without even mentioning the race of the youths.

TontoBubbaGoldstein said...

Fascinating sentence construction: "there are acts of violence that take place."


Down in South Carolina, the "youths" say, "Whah ha' happen was...."*

*"What had happened was..."

Anonymous said...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ndn-video-page,0,3091608.htmlstory?freewheel=90921&sitesection=sechicagotribune&VID=24881191

heartiste said...

steve: Fascinating sentence construction: "there are acts of violence that take place."

"Mistakes were made" - Bubba

If there's one thing leftoids are good at, it's adapting to their cognitive dissonance.

George said...

Nothing was stolen? Au contraire. They certainly got what they wanted. A beatdown on whitey.

@ whiskey- not all whites are pussies. Just urban white males. These incidents are nonexistent or rare in certain parts of the country.

Anonymous said...


Chechens being Chechens? I wonder who did this> I am curious.

Anonymous said...

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113317/hannah-arendt-film

Anonymous said...

What is hidden from the public are aggregate statistics on bad black behavior against whites as a function of time and place. Violent assaults against whites increased 13% during the Obama administration and I only saw this mentioned once in some publication like the City Journal. This is an incredible amount of suffering caused by garden variety evil and yet when someone like John Derbyshire stands up and says,"tell your children to protect themselves," he's driven out of mainstream journalism. It looks like whites will obediently walk into the gas chambers that blacks and Hispanics plan to set up for them.

Bill said...

What's missing from the article is an acknowledgement that this was a very vicious, dangerous beating about on par with being shot.

"Broken bones above his left eye" = supraorbital fracture, which requires a lot of force. Typically, you'd get this from being hit with a steel pipe or kicked full force -- in the face. Given that the man was 37 and in shape he probably did not have frail bones (peak bone density occurs at 35). In other words, they weren't holding anything back.

Yes, assaults result in psychological trauma. Rage, humiliation, shame, all that. It really isn't all that different from rape, and for a man of his age who has never been through it I can imagine the effects would be extraordinarily unsettling, and possibly permanent. I have no doubt that it will have profound consequences for his immediate family as well.

Anonymous said...

"I'll tell you what needs to be done, Steve, but most likely you'll censor me."

Steve, I a very curious which type of commenters you most often delete: People you suspect are genuine extreme right wingers who post comments comments that are beyond the pale in some way (made-up example: "We need to torture and kill all the blacks and send their mutilated bodies back to Africa!"), or people you believe are left-wingers who say these kinds of things to make right-wingers look bad.

I'm left-wing, and a few years ago I went to a Tea Party rally with a video camera, and I shouted horribly racist slogans (more plausible, and not as extreme as the example I give above) to see if anyone would take the bait and loudly agree with me. Without exception, right-wing people argued with me. I think they either saw what I was doing and knew not to agree with me, or they were genuinely offended. On the other hand, I found three groups of other left-wing groups whom I feel sure were more or less doing what I was doing: the conversations were weird positive feedback cycles in which comments got more and more extreme, but quickly lost energy. I only showed the video to my family, and it was sort of embarrassing.

cycledude said...

The takeaway is: Whenever you see a mob of "youths," regard this like you would an unchained dog and pedal as if your life depends on it. Because it very well might, QED.

not a hacker said...

This kind of gratuitous violence by "youths" has been going on for decades in America's cities.

No, it hasn't. This kind of thing is almost entirely a millenial product. It results from a feeling of black entitlement that didn't exist before 1995, supercharged now from knowledge that Holder's in charge. And you're an asshole, because you knew this.

kh123 said...

"The Washington Post generally does not identify crime victims."

Nor, it seems, perpetrators. "Youths".

peterike said...

OT: More fun diversity in a distinctly Sailerian vein.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2341689/Purdue-University-engineering-students-hacked-professors-accounts-change-grades--boosting-A-A.html

rjp said...

Best sentence:

The guy was beaten by a bunch of "youths" aka Blacks, and he can't even name them. Or react like a normal human being. His desire to maintain social approval and dogma is higher than his own sense of manhood.

Best commentss:

1) No they honk at you because you are the equivalent of the forty year old who shows up to play basketball with a Lebron jersey on. If Tour de France bikers wore loose fitting clothes then no one would give lycra clad bikers any problems at all. But instead you insist on dressing like professionals athletes but ride at the speed of some old timey Victorian guy riding in the park.

Its like the guy with the 2000 dollar irons who can't golf. If it threw on suspenders a riding cap and wool pants and drove around on one of those bikes with two different size wheels I would get beat up. You look just as ridiculous in your Lycra. Unless you are drafting for Lance just wear normal clothes.


2) His money, credit cards and bike he "would have gladly given it all up." Really? Gladly? I feel like robbing this bozo myself; cash and a bicycle just for the asking, who could resist that? He seems to have difficulty understanding things so therefore, as a slow learner, additional instruction is called for. The same youths should be called back for repeat performances, again and again, for however many times it takes for him to catch on. Learning isn't always easy. It might be called punch therapy, enlightenment through slugging.

Thanks for the laughs my friends. Lebron jersey. ... Robbing this bozo myself .... sense of manhood.

Anonymous said...

"This kind of gratuitous violence by "youths" has been going on for decades in America's cities."

No, it hasn't. This kind of thing is almost entirely a millenial product. It results from a feeling of black entitlement that didn't exist before 1995, supercharged now from knowledge that Holder's in charge. And you're an asshole, because you knew this.


I can attest to numerous incidents like this that were perpetrated in the 1980s. Maybe it didn't happen pre-1970.

Anonymous said...

This is why all this talk about black IQ misses the point.

What makes blacks act like this isn't resentment over higher white IQ but contempt for lower white PQ(physical quotient).



Anonymous said...

"Broken bones above his left eye" = supraorbital fracture, which requires a lot of force.

Exactly. "A few broken bones above my left eye." Sounds a lot less serious than "fractured his skull."

Anonymous said...

@ whiskey- not all whites are pussies. Just urban white males. These incidents are nonexistent or rare in certain parts of the country.

That may have less to do with the character of the potential target than the number advantage of the assailants. "Youths" are less likely to find themselves in 5/10/15-on-1 situations in the country than on the cityscape.

Anonymous said...

Look at Negro muscle

Anonymous said...

Second, the guy would be ostracized by his social circle if he said anything coherent.

No he wouldn't be.

Anonymous said...

As the Lion of the Blogosphere has explained, nothing is more evil than racism.

Anti-semitism is worse than racism.

Anonymous said...

What makes blacks act like this isn't resentment over higher white IQ but contempt for lower white PQ(physical quotient).

This is misleading. What accounts for this behavior is that blacks have been pushed out of the real economy, by immigrants especially. It is foreseeable then that some would move into a niche like this where they have a comparative advantage (physical; risk aversion; cost benefit dynamic). But if they had the job opportunities, you would see a lot less of this kind of violence.

Anonymous said...

"Shirasaki, also 24, allegedly changed 24 grades between May 2010 and December 2012, changing some from fails to As and Bs.
Bizarrely, he even changed two As for classes in Japanese and aeronautics and astronautics engineering to A pluses."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2341689/Purdue-University-engineering-students-hacked-professors-accounts-change-grades--boosting-A-A.html

ROTFL.

That's what I call perfectionism.

Anonymous said...

Reading this story has made me understand what a horrible human being I am because of the fact that my immediate visceral reaction was to wish I could have been there to join in and pound on this bozo a little bit myself. Sorry about that.

Anonymous said...

Pinker's book is a joke.

On page 38:

"Does chimpicide have a Darwinian rationale?"

That should be the title of he book.

Anonymous said...

"The macho BS about fighting back is keyboard tough-guy-ism. If you are jumped by a half a dozen guys, there is probably not a hell of a lot you can do to fight them off."

How about a product called the skunker?

If you're attacked, you press a button and foul odor bursts out all over you from a pack. You'll stink and puke but so will the attackers.

Anonymous said...

"Anti-semitism is worse than racism."

Jewish power win. Racism against Asian is totally ok, even with mainstream media.

carol said...

Unless you are drafting for Lance just wear normal clothes


Street clothes are sweaty because they don't wick. And if this guy was commuting, I doubt he was in full racing gear anyway but some compromise between the two.

I think blacks just find it easy and fun to knock down someone on a bike.

Anonymous said...

Is there a Daily Mail account of this story? They find other, less censored accounts.

I do think awareness and a gun would help.

Can we have a gun thread?

r. daneel goatweed

Anonymous said...

@ whiskey- not all whites are pussies. Just urban white males. These incidents are nonexistent or rare in certain parts of the country.

Very true. When was the last time you heard of any of these punks, even 15 of them at a time, coming anywhere near a white man dressed in fatigue hunting gear, with his shotguns mounted on his gun rack? Blacks looking for easy white marks do not choose those types of whites.

Anonymous said...

dame gagaois

John said...

Being assaulted is far less traumatic than many here are making out. It's only shameful if you cultivate an inflated ego and an unrealistic sense of yourself as a macho hero. Guys with insecurities about their masculinity - probably the majority of the commenters on this site - might find being assaulted traumatic, but only because it punctures their unrealistic image of themselves as macho supermen who can defeat any opponent.

For men who have a realistic and balanced sense of their own masculinity, there is no shame in being beaten up by 10 men. Even a trained special forces soldier wouldn't be able to defend against that. Heck, there even isn't any shame in being beaten up one guy who is much bigger and tougher than you.

And for a guy who cultivates his intellect and does not care about violence, getting "bested" in physical combat carries with it no stigma or shame at all. Such things simply don't matter to him as a source of personal pride, and he has never bothered to train for it, because he rightly despises physical violence, except when necessary, as low. He leaves that to the animals in human guise. Of course, such a man may have it in him to be an excellent fighter, and might become one in a time of war.

I also find that Americans' general lack of contact with genuine violence allows them to nurture this unrealistic ideal of the macho male who can be intelligent and work as a white collar job but also be able to best any street thug who attacks him and who has been developing his fighting skills and courage his whole life. Hollywood in particular perpetuates this myth, as it does so many others, but it is only the insularity of American life that allows these myths to be take root. In countries where violence is very real, and people have intimate contact with it, unrealistic macho myths give way to a sense of realism and being beaten up or defeated is not necessarily a cause for shame, but ultimately an inevitable fact of life that most people go through at some point. In Ancient Greece, a famous anecdote has a man pleading to be heard in the Assembly with these words, when threatened with a beating "Beat me, but hear me afterward!". Clearly, being beaten was not considered so shameful.

Anonymous said...

This is apparently happening out in Virginia in the DC suburbs as well. In wealthy areas like Reston in Fairfax County, which is the or one of the wealthiest counties in the US in terms of median or average income.

"String of Assaults, Robberies on Reston Paths May Be Connected
By Mila Mimica and David Culver
| Friday, Jun 14, 2013"

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/String-of-Assaults-Robberies-on-Trail-May-Be-Connected-211602241.html

"Police say a series of four assaults and robberies along pathways in Reston, Va. during the past couple of weeks may be related.

A common thread between the incidents is that individuals walking or riding bikes along secluded paths were approached by several men, who assaulted them and demanded money.

"[They're] knocking people down, punching them, assaulting them, taking their belongings and then leaving. Sometimes running, sometimes walking away," Lucy Caldwell with Fairfax Police told News4's David Culver.

In the first incident, two men were walking along a path near Moorings Drive and North Shore Drive just before 8 p.m. June 3 when they were attacked.

Four days later, a 31-year-old man was walking on a path near the community center on Pinecrest Road at 9 p.m. when he was approached by four men who demanded money then punched him repeatedly.

June 9, a 42-year-old man was pushed off his bicycle by one man and assaulted and robbed by three others just after 6 p.m. The victim was brutally beaten - he was hospitalized for broken bones and other non-life threatening injuries.

In the latest incident, a 23-year-old man was walking home from the store at approximately 3:30 p.m. along a path close to a soccer field at Hunters Woods Park. Three men approached him from behind, pushed him to the ground, robbed him and assaulted him. He also suffered non-life threatening injuries.

Officers have started patrolling the pathways.

"We have stepped up police presence and people can expect to see us, or it may be even undercover along the pathways in Reston," Caldwell said.

Some Reston residents say they avoid the paths all together, police presence aside.

"I don't walk that path! I've done it a couple of times with other people, but I will not go there alone," Jacqueline Garnier said.

"You see three or four guys who are just hanging out at a bridge - I don't care if they're black, white, purple with yellow dots - they outnumber me!" Mary Dominiak said.

The suspects in the latest incident are described as the following:

Two black men in their late teens or 20s, approximately 5'9" and weighing 150 pounds
One possibly Hispanic man, 5'9", between 18 and 20 years old"

Anonymous said...

I guess he was not wearing a helmet.

Also, nobody ever mentions in all these so called random attacks and flash-mobs of how cowardly the thugs are. It took 15 thugs to beat up a SWPL pansy?

MC

Anonymous said...

"In countries where violence is very real, and people have intimate contact with it, unrealistic macho myths give way to a sense of realism and being beaten up or defeated is not necessarily a cause for shame, but ultimately an inevitable fact of life that most people go through at some point."

No, unrealistic macho myths give way to realistic macho myths.

Black communities, Latin nations, and Africa are very violent, but they're full of machismo.
But it's more realistic. When you see a big mofo, you run like a mothafuc*a.

eh said...

You've got to hand it to John, he really makes a cogent point. The times I've been battered by blacks ('assault' is vanilla, and legally erroneous besides, actual contact being unnecessary to the completed crime) I didn't experience much emotional trauma or shame. Instead, I experienced, e.g., 6 mos. of constant headaches after being knocked out from behind by a 6'7" guy unhappy I floated a shot over him in the lane, or a $1,500 dental bill when a guy I'd never seen before busted me on the sidewalk from a running start. Unlike those here whose minds John can read, I'd never thought myself the least bit macho, but that second event ironically caused me to view myself as something of a superman. After all, how many knowledge workers can withstand a surprise like that without going down? Right now I'm practicing ripping things with my teeth. When the inevitable gang-up occurs, my plan is to introduce the kid to cannibalism.

NOTA said...

Maybe he's not too coherent because he just got the hell beaten out of him by a bunch of thugs. Give him a couple weeks to get over the concussion and off the pain medicine, and he might have something more coherent to say. Though as others have noted, we have no way of knowing what he actually said, just what was reported. If he speculated about the attack being a racial hate crime, or complained about what is wrong with American black culture that makes this kind of thing seem okay, that almost certainly would never have ended up in the article.

Several years ago, Fred Reed talked about the broad pattern of not reporting black on white racial hate crimes, omitting discussions of race from crime as much as possible, intentionally leaving the public as ignorant as possible of what the worst black ghettos look like, etc. The pattern continues. I wonder what will happen when it stops working.

Anonymous said...

John, not necessarily so. About 30 years ago, my parents took us, their (then) young adult children on a family trip to the Bahamas. My younger brother spent one of the nights we were there getting completely shit-faced with some English guy. He went to use the toilet, and found himself surrounded by 5 locals. One of them grabbed him around the waist, and another grabbed him around the neck, while the other three smirked in front of him, like, "Give up the wallet, my man."

Unfortunately for them, they didn't know that little bro had been training in martial arts since he was 8 years old (he was 21 then). I don't know the names of the moves, but he assumed his stance and sent an elbow thundering backward into the jaw of the guy who had him around the waist. With the same arm, he drove his fist forward into the solar plexus of one of the guys in front of him. He flipped the guy who had him around the neck onto the floor. He said that out of the corner of his eye, he could see the guy he'd hit in the jaw lying with his hands over his face, and a big pool of blood forming on the floor. The other two were on the floor, as well. This all happened in less than 15 seconds. Then he faced off against the two that were left. They both put their hands up in the air and backed against the wall. He walked out of the bathroom with a few scratches.

He said that the patrons left in the bar, including the English guy, were all gathered round the bathroom door (presumably having heard the fracas inside.) My brother was drunk and pissed off, and turned to go back in and finish off the other two, but the English guy stopped him. He got my brother to sit down, saying, "They won't come out." He was right. After a few minutes, one of the bartenders went in. The would-be muggers had all booked out the bathroom window, taking their wounded with them.

The next afternoon, my brother took me back to the same pub. I saw him talking to the bartender, and he came back smiling. He said that the bartender asked him, "How is your elbow?" "It hurts," my brother admitted. The bartender said, "I know someone whose jaw hurts worse." Then he complained about all the blood that had to be cleaned off the bathroom floor.

My reason for recounting this story, other than the fact that it's cool and I like telling it, is that you couldn't get a guy more "desk job" than my brother; yet, to this day, he could still kick the ass of any thugs who tried it on in an alley, elevator, subway or wherever. Contrary to your assertion, thugs do not "develop their fighting skills;" they gang up and prey on easy targets. Against a gang, even two people who had decent training in martial arts would stand a pretty good chance of at least making it out without anything broken.

Obviously, all the training in the world wouldn't do much good against a gun, but against the sort of "wilding" assaults, done for the sheer pleasure of beating, that seem to be growing in frequency, martial arts training is invaluable.



JSM said...

"Yes, assaults result in psychological trauma. Rage, humiliation, shame, all that. It really isn't all that different from rape, and for a man of his age who has never been through it I can imagine the effects would be extraordinarily unsettling, and possibly permanent. I have no doubt that it will have profound consequences for his immediate family as well."

Getting the snot beat out of ya, yes, is horrible.
But it IS different from rape. Rape also has the possibility of impregnation, which leaves her asking, if pro-life, do I commit murder on my own child? As well as, quite probably, being infected with STDs.

IA said...

Anthony Burgess also wrote about a future dystopia where hetero men would pretend to act gay in order to advance. (The Wanting Seed) DC police has a special unit that investigates hate crimes.

In the early 80s there was a rash of murders of British tourists in Miami. Apparently, blacks target(ed) them because of weaker prosecution by authorities. Car rental companies removed conspicuous logos. British touist death rates dropped.

Anonymous said...

Against a gang, even two people who had decent training in martial arts would stand a pretty good chance of at least making it out without anything broken.

This just isn't true. Numerical advantage is virtually decisive.

Anonymous said...

Also, nobody ever mentions in all these so called random attacks and flash-mobs of how cowardly the thugs are. It took 15 thugs to beat up a SWPL pansy?

Outnumbering victims is the standard operating procedure.

Rohan Swee said...

@2:32 PM quoting news article: "You see three or four guys who are just hanging out at a bridge - I don't care if they're black, white, purple with yellow dots - they outnumber me!" Mary Dominiak said.

What is it with this "I dont' care if they're purple with yellow dots" trope? How many times have I seen this turn of phrase in the context of anything with a racial angle? Sometimes the dots are pink, and sometimes they're polka dots, but it's always the form of "purple with [x][y] dots". Always presented by the types who make presenting their non-racist bona fides a priority.

Did they all get the line from the same source? Like, I dunno, some newsletter that went out with helpful pieces like "10 tips for deflecting accusations of racism when you're white flighting/victimized by vibrancy/taking your kids out of the recently diversimatized neighborhood public school" etc.

Seems to be more of a tea-partier type than a SWPL thing in general, though.

Tony said...

“I would be fine if they took my things, that I understand,” said the man
Because they're poor, poverty strickened youths who have a right to those things. Yeah ok.

Tony said...

"Let me guess: young Negro males?"

No way. Gotta be Scandanavians.

Suburban_elk said...

John at 2:23 p.m., says that

"Guys with insecurities about their masculinity - probably the majority of the commenters on this site - might find being assaulted traumatic, but only because it punctures their unrealistic image of themselves as macho supermen"

Well jeez John, thanks for straightening that out. Is PTSD a bunch of non sense as well? Does your characterization of guys who experience assault as traumatic extend to soldiers also?

There is no exact line between being slugged in the nose and having your blown off, there are a thousand gradations between. So, John, at which point is trauma an experience that damages and hurts a real man? Consider the story in question. The guy had his skull fractured. Any trauma he may be experiencing is, according to you, the result of his "unrealistic image of [himself]".

If you believe there is no such thing as trauma in the psychological sense, as in PTSD for instance, then we can agree to disagree. But if you acknowledge physical trauma does cause lasting damage to the brain, which expresses in personality and behavior, then your comment that beating is not traumatic is categorically wrong. Unless you can delimit exactly when and where it (psychological damage from physical trauma) begins. Go ahead.

This mistaken point of yours you mix in with another point about there being no shame in being beaten. This point is not so off the wall and mistaken, but it is a separate point. Shame is a complex idea - what might be experienced as shame by a person, might not be shameful, as in your examples. Shame is often associated with trauma by the individual, but shame is a small and not even necessary component of trauma. Your ideas are confused and muddled.

The converse observation, by the way, to yours, that beatings are traumatic only to those with unrealistic images of themselves, is that beatings are not traumatic to insensitive louts on whom the experience of life leaves not a lasting impression.

John said...

Numbers are in fact decisive, and it is sheer romanticism to believe otherwise.

@Anon, there is a well known phenomenon where highly trained martial artists get beaten up by street thugs who have half their skill and half their strength (google it). The issue is one of experience in real-world fighting. There is something called the "killer instinct" where the thug has honed the ability to bring a sudden, overwhelming amount of violence and ferocity to an encounter with the intention to do maximum physical damage. It is a psychological state of mind developed over time through many real world encounters and can stun an opponent who is both stronger and more skilled than him, but who is not prepared to bring that level of ferocity to the encounter, or at least not right away. The element of surprise and ferocity overcomes skill every time. The military knows this and trains for this.

Unfortunately, this psychological trait is developed through experience - real world encounters of violence across many years.

I am not saying all street thugs have this, but many do, and anyone not used to fighting and not used to getting in "state" (ferocity) will be at a disadvantage. The average white collar worker who trains in martial arts is rarely prepared to bring this level of sudden violence to the encounter.

That being said, the white collar worker who is a trained fighter does not, in my view, represent any kind of masculine ideal. Violence is degraded and brutish, not glamorous, and only people isolated from it think it glamorous. Anyone exposed to violence knows how animalistic it is, how large the element of luck is, and how little "glory" there is in winning a fight. Typically, people who have no other talents or abilities resort to violence, which is why in every society the lowest levels are the ones who are violent. Anyone who has anything else going for him avoids it.

Suburban_elk said...

Also, John, in your last paragraph you write,

"I also find that Americans' general lack of contact with genuine violence allows them to nurture this unrealistic ideal of the macho male who can be intelligent and work as a white collar job but also be able to best any street thug who attacks him and who has been developing his fighting skills and courage his whole life. Hollywood in particular perpetuates this myth, as it does so many others, but it is only the insularity of American life that allows these myths to be take root."

The point of the article is that the insularity is dissolving and quickly. There is no avoiding the violence anymore, and it is for the most part protected middle agers and older who consider that Americans are insulated from violence and or that they get their ideas about it from Hollywood. The reality is that kids today get to experience first hand violence in its real form - as in skull fractures and gang rapes - as do most other Americans not living behind gated walls.

Hollywood did sell that fantasy, of unrealistic fighting skills, but get real - no one believes it. From where are you getting your ideas of what people think and experience. You are out of touch.

Harry Baldwin said...

Also, nobody ever mentions in all these so called random attacks and flash-mobs of how cowardly the thugs are. It took 15 thugs to beat up a SWPL pansy?

The guys perpetrating these kinds of beat-downs couldn't care less if it appears cowardly. The former prison guard Rory Miller writes about criminal violence in "Meditations on Violence" and "Facing Violence."

The kind of fight that starts when a stranger says to you, "What are you looking at?" is a dominance display, generally performed as a demonstration for an audience of his peers. Miller calls this the Monkey Dance.

What Miller terms the Group Monkey Dance is what we see in these mob attacks. These are rituals of group solidarity and establishment of territory. Miller writes, "This is behavior that is familiar in chimps and baboons--your tribe will band together to drive away or scare off members of another tribe or a predator. If you don't participate, your loyalty to the group might be questioned."

Miller's blog "Chiron training" is worth poking around in.

John said...

@Suburban_elk, that's not true where I live, NYC. Violence is very low here for middle class whites, almost non-existent. As far as I understand this is true for most large American cities these days.

But the point is, if violence IS becoming more pervasive, certainly we should organize to combat it. My objection is to the silly macho glamorization of violence and the idea that an average white collar worker should be able to handle an assault by 10 thugs, and if he can't, he is a "pussy" and will suffer psychological shame and trauma. That's silly Hollywood- peddled nonsense. It is not just romanticism, but also comes from the kind of masculine insecurity -peculiar to our modern culture- that results in other grotesque deformities, such as Game, which bear no relation to real life but whose primary significance lies in the fact that they are psychological overcompensations.

John said...

@ Subrurban_elk

PTSD is the result of prolonged exposure to a very high level of stress, not violence per-se. Any prolonged exposure to extreme stress can have some negative effects. A single beating, even if relatively severe, is not traumatic for most people. I do not think the human mind is quite so fragile.

But my objection is more to the idea that such a thing need result in shame and humilitation - it needn't. If you wish to say that getting beaten that way is a severe stress that for some people, more fragile than others, who then experience trauma, I don't have any particular objection to that.

I am not trying to stigmatize or shame anyone by saying they are "more fragile" - everyone has their own capacity to deal with stress, and I respect that, and no one should be shamed for it. A well ordered society shouldn't even test these things. But I do think that a single beating is the kind of thing most people can simply get up and shrug off, perhaps shaken but without any great trauma, and certainly if they feel shame or humiliation it is because of a false view of life and a false view of the macho ideal. That's all.

Anonymous said...

Being assaulted is far less traumatic than many here are making out.

Many of us here to like to see if your reaction remains the same after we throw a blanket party for you. Besides, by that reasoning, rape shouldn't be very traumatic either - after all, it's the rare woman who's strong enough to best her male attacker.

Anonymous said...

Violence is degraded and brutish, not glamorous, and only people isolated from it think it glamorous.

That's a pretty retarded remark, although calling it retarded is an insult to retards. People get a charge from from action movies not because it's glamorous, but because they get a thrill from the idea that the good guy gets to win for a chance. It's an escape from real life, where the bad guys get to torture innocents to death and skate on technicalities. We don't go to the movies for real life - for that, we have newspapers, and real life stories from incidents involving friends and relatives.

Anonymous said...

Don't Americans have the right to carry guns?

ben tillman said...

Fascinating sentence construction: "there are acts of violence that take place."

Indeed. Good point.

ben tillman said...

I feel no sympathy for this man.

I do.

This kind of thing never happens in Mexico City but it's distressingly common in America.

Yeah, being kidnapped for ransom is so much more fun.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

This is misleading. What accounts for this behavior is that blacks have been pushed out of the real economy, by immigrants especially. It is foreseeable then that some would move into a niche like this where they have a comparative advantage (physical; risk aversion; cost benefit dynamic). But if they had the job opportunities, you would see a lot less of this kind of violence."

Yeah - that's why these particular persons-of-youth didn't even steal anything from the guy - lack of economic opportunity.

Many blacks remove themselves from the legal economy by being indifferent to serving long prison sentences for stupid crimes which they almost no sooner commit than they are arrested for them. Loss of economic opportunities does not account for gratuitous assault, rape, and murder.

ben tillman said...

A few youths attacked a 65-year-old cyclist in Philly last year. He was armed and shot two, killing one. The third youth was arrested. And no charges were filed against the shooter.

Good for him, but West Reading would be about 60 miles west of Philly.

ben tillman said...


This is just not true. The media almost always give sympathetic coverage to whites who were forced to use lethal force to defend themselves against black predators. The Martin-Zimmerman incident was different because, given the scant details available initially, it looked as if Zimmerman might have engaged Martin in a way that provoked a physical confrontation between the two.

But why would that matter? Provoking a physical confrontation is irrelevant under the law.

ben tillman said...

It wasn't a case of a white person minding their own business and being targeted for violence, robbery, etc., by a black.

No, it wasn't, because Zimmerman isn't White.

But he was minding his own business. And he shouldn't be railroaded to serve a political agenda.

Truth said...

"But he was minding his own business..."

I would say that "following a stranger around" qualifies as the very antithesis of "minding your own business."

Anonymous said...

I would say that "following a stranger around" qualifies as the very antithesis of "minding your own business."

A neighborhood watch leader who follows a suspicious stranger in his neighborhood who's looking in windows and might be up to no good is by definition minding his own business. He won't always be home, and helping to apprehend or deter a crook might prevent his own home from being burgled. Truth undoubtedly feels that it's Zimmerman's responsibility to pay (via taxes) for the upkeep of convicted criminals (via food stamps, housing allowances and SNAP cash payments) who've been let out of prison and don't feel like working, but an outright crime for Zimmerman to prevent potential criminals from mounting a burglary attempt on the neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

Now, if Zimmerman were following a suspicious stranger around somebody else's neighborhood miles away from his home, that would be a different story. Even so, it's not a crime to follow suspicious strangers around. In fact, it's a crime to sucker punch someone who's following you around. It's also a crime to smash his skull into the concrete pavement. Truth can be accused of many things, but using reasonable premises is not one of them.

Anonymous said...

As a Pedant-American, I feel duty bound to point out that structures such as "an act of violence occurred" are not actually in the passive voice.

Anonymous said...

Re: Maybe there is no solution. As Kathy Shaidle likes to say, "should of picked our own cotton".

Actually, a lot of people picked their own cotton and a lot more would have been willing to do so.

Unfortunately, groups of very rich white men, who enjoyed disproportionate political representation, preferred to import "cheap" negro slaves who would work for less money and would not enjoy the same rights as poor white Americans.

Thank God nothing like that happens in today's America!

David Davenport said...

There is resentment on their part. In spite of the glamour of a fast Mustang of something, most people in cars feel trapped; someone on a bike is at least outside, and exercising and his blood is pumping.

Resentment on their part?

Deep down inside, you wish you could afford a fast and glamorous car, don't you? Saying that a fast Mustang is glamorous is a Freudian slip, isn't it?

You say you were being ironic? My reply is, peepul often reveal their latent wishes with clumsy attempts at irony.

someone on a bike is at least outside, and exercising and his blood is pumping.

You don't know the Mustang driver's exercise schedule or occupation,do you? That driver might be getting a lot more exercise than you do on your silly racy style bike.

... Freud is largely discredited nowadays, but f.y.i. old Siggie said that bicycle riding is onanistic.

I agree that in general Psychoanalysis is bunk, however I believe that offhand remarks often reveal desires that the conscious self cannot acknowledge.

Anonymous said...

"Getting the snot beat out of ya, yes, is horrible.
But it IS different from rape. Rape also has the possibility of impregnation, which leaves her asking, if pro-life, do I commit murder on my own child? As well as, quite probably, being infected with STDs."

I would think that rape is much worse, because it would be an impediment to a healthy sex life from then on, with the traumatic memory of the rape always there. I can't see a beating like this doing anything comparable (unlike, say, being tortured for a long period of time).

Anonymous said...

"The media almost always give sympathetic coverage to whites who were forced to use lethal force to defend themselves against black predators."

When?


These kinds of stories are posted on conservative, white nationalist, and guntalk sites all the time. One that immediately comes to mind was a story about a white Harlem restaurant supply company owner who shot and killed a black who was trying to rob his place. Here's a link:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/blue-flame-owner-kills-harlem-restaurant-supply-owner-shoots-dead-botched-robbery-article-1.395533

Also, here's a story about a white LA store owner who had to fight off armed robbers on several occasions. He's treated a hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKVAy0hb7I4

In fact, just search youtube for "store owner shoots robber" or "clerk shoots robber." There are tons of stories like that. The idea that the media side with black criminal against white victims is a myth.

Anonymous said...

Zimmerman followed a black guy to prevent a crime.

Black guys follow non-blacks to commit a crime.

Anonymous said...

"I would say that "following a stranger around" qualifies as the very antithesis of "minding your own business".

Of course YOU would say that, 'Truth'.

And I might even AGREE with you, IF;

The guy in question was NOT the neighborhood watch leader. Its his job to be on the lookout for strangers and potentially suspicious looking people.

He was following the guy around, OUTSIDE of his home and neighborhood.

Harry Baldwin said...

In fact, just search youtube for "store owner shoots robber" or "clerk shoots robber." There are tons of stories like that. The idea that the media side with black criminal against white victims is a myth.

Self-defense shootings where the intended victims were in their home or place of business are much more clear-cut than self-defense shootings on the street or in some neutral locale, and treated accordingly. If you are forced to defend yourself on a bike path or when leaving a theater you will find that the police and press are not so quick to take your side--the situation is always more murky.

Ben Tillman comments, "Provoking a physical confrontation is irrelevant under the law."

I'm sorry, that is not true. If you are forced to use deadly force in a fight that it appears you provoked, your self-defense argument is very weak. Among the conditions necessary for a self defense claim is "preclusion"--i.e., you could not simply have walked away or avoided the conflict.

Silver said...

It's easier to understand and accept a crime committed for material gain than a hate crime or a random ass kicking for the sake of kicking someone's ass. I can see exactly why someone wants my ipad or my wallet--it makes sense, I'd want those things too, even if I wouldn't mug someone to get them. But just beating the hell out of someone because it would be fun to beat up a white guy, or because you just like hurting people, that's a lot harder to absorb somehow. Honestly, in order to work up a serious enough dislike of someone to want to beat the hell out of them, I pretty much need to know them--not just notice that they're bicyclist of the wrong race in my neighborhood.

Does "absorb" mean "understand" or "accept" above?

I don't think it's difficult to understand at all. There is ample evidence that people behave as though race matters to them. So why should an individual being targeted for his race be hard to understand? It should be ridiculously easy to understand.

So I guess we're stuck with "accept."


The progressive/equalitarian/fantasist attitude is "it can't be true and I refuse to accept it."

The conservative/realist/'racist' approach is "it can be true, and the evidence indicates it probably is, so it's best to accept it."

Please note: accepting doesn't mean liking.

I don't like that racial violence occurs and I believe that efforts to surmount racial passions often times pay off. Just as it's easy to understand the urge to kill a man for sleeping with your wife, there are benefits to learning to surmount such passions. But it's very foolish to pretend that such passions can forever be eliminated and to base a society on the belief that they can be - or worse, that they have been.

Silver said...

This just isn't true. Numerical advantage is virtually decisive.

It also depends on the fighting skills of your assailants.

I have been gang-bashed on two occasions when I was alone, on one occasion by four others, the second by as many seven or eight. (And a few more occasions where I was initially alone, but had friends come to my aid within moments.)

The first time I suffered minimal harm (fat lip, slight black eye) because my assailants, while getting the better of me, lacked any real fighting proficiency. The fight ended because passers by intervened, but had I not been drunk there is a non-negligible chance I might have beaten them off, particularly if I took down their 'leader.'

The second occasion I received a pretty decent thrashing, being knocked out within the first couple of punches, with the fight ending with on my back attempting to kick off the attackers. Still, the result was't anything horrific, and nothing requiring hospitalization. (In fact, after a friend assured me I looked okay, we changed locations and continued drinking.)

This pales in comparison to the right ass-kicking I received in a one-on-one fight with someone who really knew how to fight. This one grotesquely disfigured my head (not permanently, thank heavens). The shame and humiliation I experienced on this occasion dwarfs anything I felt after being gang-bashed. Indeed, I felt much more pride at having 'survived' the gang-bashings than anything negative (well, a bit of rage, I admit).

Truth said...

"A neighborhood watch leader who follows a suspicious stranger in his neighborhood who's looking in windows and might be up to no good is by definition minding his own business."

He was a self appointed "neighborhood watch leader" who thought so little of authority, that he did not follow the organization's rules, nor those of the police. There is not corroborating evidence that Martin was "looking in windows" and "up to no good" is a totally subjective term. What there is evidence of, is that he had just made a purchase at 7-11 and was on a path to his father's house.

"He won't always be home, and helping to apprehend or deter a crook might prevent his own home from being burgled."

There was no corroborating evidence to suggest that Martin was a "crook" other than the fact that he was young and black, which, to many of the simpletons here, is the same thing. There is evidence, however, to suggest that Zimmerman was a "crook" as he was arrested twice and sentenced once.

"Truth undoubtedly feels that it's Zimmerman's responsibility to pay (via taxes) for the upkeep of convicted criminals (via food stamps, housing allowances and SNAP cash payments) who've been let out of prison and don't feel like working but an outright crime for Zimmerman to prevent potential criminals from mounting a burglary attempt on the neighborhood."

No, what Truth undoubtedly believes, is that phony law enforcement agents should not initiate confrontations that lead to murders.

Truth said...

"The guy in question was NOT the neighborhood watch leader."

There is no training, education, internship, certification or apprenticeship for that position, you simply say that you are, and you are. He didn't even care enough about the guidelines of his own "organization" as the Neighborhood Watch Association strongly frowns upon it's members being armed, he proved in no uncertain terms that he did not give a shit about authority himself as he was convicted for resisting arrest, which precluded him from being a real law enforcement officer, rather than a phony vigilante.

"Its his job to be on the lookout for strangers and potentially suspicious looking people."

It's not a "job" because the term "job" implies remuneration. And even accepting that, Zimmerman was told in no uncertain terms not to follow the "suspect." Again, he did his best not stick up his middle finger at authority, because he though someone else was.

He was following the guy around, OUTSIDE of his home and neighborhood.

Truth said...

"This pales in comparison to the right ass-kicking I received in a one-on-one fight with someone who really knew how to fight."

Dude, you sure get your ass kicked allot.

Anonymous said...

Actually, a lot of people picked their own cotton and a lot more would have been willing to do so.


Indeed.

http://www.hico-tx.com/objects/J.J._Leeth_Family_picking_cotton_near_Fairy,_1904_compressed.jpg

Anonymous said...

As a woman, I think rape would be horrible, but probably being beaten as bad as that dude was is just as horrible. Contracting an STD or getting pregnant is a physical consequence as are broken bones or brain damage, so six of one half dozen of the other. Psychological damage probably about the same.

Anonymous said...


Among the conditions necessary for a self defense claim is "preclusion"--i.e., you could not simply have walked away or avoided the conflict.


Generally speaking, it is hard to walk away or avoid the conflict when the person jumps on you from behind and then pins you down and is banging your head on the concrete.

The fact that George Zimmerman followed him around or even talked to him does not constitute provoking a fight.

For example. I am an over 40 white woman. If I were out late one night and George Zimmerman had followed me and tried to talk to me, you can be damned sure I would not have tried to jump him and beat him because I felt... what? that he was trying to start some shit with me? Seriously? Who the hell jumps someone that is following them? I sure as hell don't. I get the hell out of there. The whole zimmerman affair is such bullshit. Basically a thug jumped Zimmerman and zimmerman shot the assailant who was trying to either kill him or seriously injure him. Anyone else just would have run away from Zimmerman figuring he was a weirdo at worst.

Anonymous said...


as the Neighborhood Watch Association strongly frowns upon it's members being armed, he proved in no uncertain terms that he did not give a shit about authority himself as he was convicted for resisting arrest, which precluded him from being a real law enforcement officer, rather than a phony vigilante.


What kind of nutless worm is going to let someone kill him to avoid being frowned upon by the Neighborhood Watch Association? Zimmerman's neighborhood is obviously dangerous enough to warrant a man carrying a firearm. And any "authority" that demands law abiding citizens allow criminals to kick their ass at will is hardly an authority worth regarding. Sheesh.

Harry Baldwin said...

Generally speaking, it is hard to walk away or avoid the conflict when the person jumps on you from behind and then pins you down and is banging your head on the concrete.

When I raised the matter of preclusion, I was not referring to the Zimmerman-Martin incident. I was responding to the sweeping statement that "Provoking a physical confrontation is irrelevant under the law."

From the available facts, I don't believe Zimmerman provoked a confrontation. However, in other instances, people do.

Anonymous said...


As a woman, I think rape would be horrible, but probably being beaten as bad as that dude was is just as horrible. Contracting an STD or getting pregnant is a physical consequence as are broken bones or brain damage, so six of one half dozen of the other. Psychological damage probably about the same.


Clearly you have been brainwashed by the patriarchy. Otherwise you would know that rape is the second worst thing that could ever happen to anyone (racism is the worst). The rape of a single woman is a tragedy on par with the deaths of 10,000 men.

Truth said...

"Generally speaking, it is hard to walk away or avoid the conflict when the person jumps on you from behind and then pins you down and is banging your head on the concrete."

Pure conjecture. There is no evidence as to who jumped whom, and from where.

"Who the hell jumps someone that is following them?"

Again, pure conjecture.

"Anyone else just would have run away from Zimmerman figuring he was a weirdo at worst."

The whole controversy here, is over a law entitled, "stand your ground."

"Clearly you have been brainwashed by the patriarchy. Otherwise you would know that rape is the second worst thing that could ever happen to anyone (racism is the worst). The rape of a single woman is a tragedy on par with the deaths of 10,000 men."

This is satire? I sincerely hope that at some point in your life you get to hang out with some prison rapists.

Svigor said...

No, what Truth undoubtedly believes, is that phony law enforcement agents should not initiate confrontations that lead to murders.

There's no evidence it was murder. All the evidence points to Zim defending himself from a lowlife thug. If blacks learned to control their tempers and behavior better, they might not wind up on slabs or in prison quite so often. Of course, it's very possible that they're generally incapable of learning to do so.

Svigor said...

Zimmerman was told in no uncertain terms not to follow the "suspect."

There you go with your reverse nickname, again. First of all, it doesn't matter what he was told by some mouth-breathing 911 operator. She can tell you to go jump off a bridge, too, and if you do, you're a moron. Second, she told him no such thing; she said "we don't need you to do that," which is an observation, not an instruction.

As a woman, I think rape would be horrible, but probably being beaten as bad as that dude was is just as horrible. Contracting an STD or getting pregnant is a physical consequence as are broken bones or brain damage, so six of one half dozen of the other. Psychological damage probably about the same.

You sound like a psychologically tough woman. When the typical women carries on about the infinite psychological trauma of rape, I hear an admission that women are a lot less psychologically tough than men.

The fact that George Zimmerman followed him around or even talked to him does not constitute provoking a fight.

It does if you're a negro. Unless they've all been lying in the wake of lil' Tray-Tray's demise.

Pure conjecture. There is no evidence as to who jumped whom, and from where.

All the evidence is consistent with Zim's story.

This is satire? I sincerely hope that at some point in your life you get to hang out with some prison rapists.

Yep, cuz hetero-vaginal rape is so very similar to homo-sodomy-rape.

Svigor said...

It's pretty clear what happened with the Zim case. It was a justifiable homicide, a clear-cut self-defense case, and the cops knew it so they didn't arrest him. Then the press and the negro pols gave it the full court press for a month and then che YT caved, so now we'll see a show trial.

The only surprise for me is what pansies the Florida browns have shown themselves to be. They haven't lifted a finger to help one of their own, AFAICT. I almost wonder if they're the ones who insist that "white" precede "Hispanic" in every reference to his ethnicity, as a not-so-subtle way explaining why they've washed their hands of him.

NOTA said...

Silver:

Not "accept" in the sense of "accept that it's right." You're not ever going to get my acceptance of a bunch of thugs kicking my ass.

But understanding it and fitting it into your worldview, that's a different matter. A lot of people, like me, really don't feel a strong dislike for strangers who look different. Perhaps that's partly a sheltered life--I'm sure getting mugged a few times by black or gypsy kids installs a pretty strong visceral group dislike in you.

There may be some ugly physical or mental consequences of this beating for the victim--a beating severe enough to fracture your skull is a serious matter. But this may also force him to completely change his life around--he may stop biking entirely, he may decide to move to some suburb where the police regrettably happen to pull over any black men driving through town after dark (terrible really, and he'll get around to protesting it someday...eventually). He's looking at a major rearrangement of his whole life, thanks to a bunch of thugs.

The truth is, biking and walking and public transit only work when the streets are safe. Otherwise, all the talk about "walkable cities" will be lost in the rush to get in a nice safe car with locked doors, driven from your safe suburb to your safe office with security guards and cameras.

IMO, if you believe walkable cities and biking and public transit are worthwhile, you pretty much have to also support really serious measures to keep those things safe. The would-be criminals need to be absolutely sure that preying on their fellow citizens on the train or bike trail or whatever is an incredibly dumb idea. This has to be clear enough that a testosterone-filled 17 year old with an IQ of 70 who's been raised by TV and the local public school system needs to be convinced. The alternative is that all those nice ideas will just go away, because it won't take too many incidents like this before nobody rides his bike to work in that area.

Truth said...

"First of all, it doesn't matter what he was told by some mouth-breathing 911 operator."

If Zimmerman does not have to take suggestion from a law enforcement official, or a policeman making an arrest, why does Martin have to answer a nobody's questions?"

"She can tell you to go jump off a bridge,"

And what about the policeman making an arrest, are you a moron for not ignoring him also.

"Yep, cuz hetero-vaginal rape is so very similar to homo-sodomy-rape."

IF you don't desire it, how much difference is there, and besides, is there some hetero-rapist code of honor that they limit themselves to one orifice"

"All the evidence is consistent with Zim's story."

The only evidence is that his head hit the pavement, and that the other man was shot to death, that's it.

Silver said...

NOTA:

I mean "accept" as in accept that it occurs. Accept in your heart that some people will dislike others on a racial basis and occasionally that dislike will manifest itself in physical violence. You don't have to like that this is part of the human condition, but if you accept that is then you won't be surprised by it. You'll no longer struggle to "absorb" it. And with any luck you'll stop trying to build a society on the basis that it can be made not to happen.

A lot of people, like me, really don't feel a strong dislike for strangers who look different.

Fwiw, I don't feel a "strong" dislike either. But I have on many, many occasions felt strongly disliked by people who looked different to me. And in a few of those cases the dislikers even had the good manners to inform in no uncertain terms why I'm so disliked, just so there wouldn't be any confusion. Baptism of fire, you might say, but it did its part in helping see how the world works.

he may decide to move to some suburb where the police regrettably happen to pull over any black men driving through town after dark (terrible really, and he'll get around to protesting it someday...eventually).

The only "terrible" thing about it is that it's left to the whim of the police officer. Official (and legal, of course) policies consistent with the racial reality that integration and diversity are not strengths would go a long way to providing a measure of consistency to interracial interactions of all kinds; and contrary to what you probably think, a measure of increased racial goodwill, too. Embrace racial reform, NOTA.

ben tillman said...

I'm sorry, that is not true. If you are forced to use deadly force in a fight that it appears you provoked, your self-defense argument is very weak.

Confrontation and provocation are totally distinct concepts. A confrontation is just a face-to-face encounter.

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure the gist of the comments here is that the victim was foolish for letting himself get into this situation, not that he couldn't fend off 10+ youths