July 16, 2013

Riots v. protests

From the Los Angeles Times
Though demonstrations over the Zimmerman verdict have been mostly peaceful across the U.S., California has stood apart, marked by violence in Los Angeles and Oakland, where officials' and activists' patience were diminishing.

The conventional assumption about riots appears to be that they occur in proportion to the aggrievement of the "community." In contrast, my impression over the last four decades is that they more occur due to "Hey, the cops aren't a worry, let's get free stuff!" 

Thus, I would distinguish between protests and riots.

And I try not to make predictions about when riots happen because they tend to be dependent upon two things happening. A lot of people in the street and the police losing control. The latter tends to be hard to predict.

A key example would be the huge 1992 Los Angeles riot. Was it caused more by the passionate outrage of the community ... or by the LAPD sulking over all the criticism they'd undergone, and thus wimping out when shoplifting at liquor stores at the corner of Florence and Normandie started to explode? I'd lean toward the latter (although I can appreciate arguments for the former).

Since then, riots in North America seem more likely to be associated with sports than with traditional complaints. The big riot in Chicago in June 1992, for example, came as a surprise surprise because the crowds weren't angry, they were ecstatic over Michael Jordan's Bulls winning their second straight NBA title. There hadn't been a riot the year before when the Bulls finally made it to the top, so why the second year? And then, in 1993, there was some looting but the Chicago PD was well prepared with cops on horses.

Thus, if riots are largely the result of cops failing to enforce order, then the increasing professionalization (indeed, militarization, as seen in the Hunt for the Bomb Brothers) of police forces over the last generation, especially since 9/11, has made riots less common.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151463458802130&set=a.60054292129.82507.517472129&type=1&theater

Anonymous said...

Riots = Youths.

Anonymous said...

Just watched Anderson Cooper's special on race and and the trayvon martin case. Depressing as usual with the usual suspects, along with a lot of talk about profiling and the high incarceration rates of black males. Zero mention of the vastly higher crime rates, though. Go figure. No Tim Wise, thankfully, but his ideology was well represented.

Nachoan

Anononymous said...

Riots after verdict:

la-me-ln-zimmerman-verdict-city-leaders-urge-calm
About 350 Los Angeles Police Department officers swarmed the Crenshaw district after groups of youths broke away from a peaceful protest in Leimert Park and stomped on cars, broke windows, set fires and attacked several people.
...Reporter Dave Bryan and his cameraman, ... were attacked and one of them was taken to a hospital with a possible concussion
...about 150 people took part in the violence after the peaceful vigil
...Earlier Monday, several protesters made their way into a Wal-Mart ... Los Angeles Police Department officers wearing helmets and carrying batons swarmed the store
------------------
Video:
video: LA Riots 2013: George Zimmerman protesters riot in Los Angeles, CA

Anonymous said...

The stupidity of so many is just depressing. The news shoed Stevie Wonder in concert in Quebec announcing he would no longer step foot in Florida. When the audience gve him a huge hand forvthat (hey, Canadians, just as pc and wussy as ever I see--no change there), Wonder then announced, he,d not perform in any state with a Stand Your Ground law.

It's amazing how many people, even those who think they have followed the case fairly carefully, think that the Zimmerman defense team invoked the Stand Your Ground law . They did not. His attorneys decided to forego a SYG hearing and instead simply used the garden variety self defense argument. Even the AP wire service keeps getting it wrong. Since UPI went under, the AP is absolutely atrocious in reporting accurately even the most easily checked facts.

Whiskey said...

Steve, you're wrong on this -- it is politics that dictate if police are used to crush riots or not.

Bradley gave the order to have the LAPD stand down, and they did. Same with Dinkins and the NYPD at Crown Heights. Same with Garcetti and the stuff the other day.

Yes the Police are more militarized, and that is a FAILING not a plus for society. A society that requires a massive, organized police force is not really functional. The professionalization and really militarization of the police who are now almost indistinguishable in equipment, uniforms, and tactics to military personnel engaged in "peacekeeping" operations is a function of an out of control sector of society. Mostly Black, secondarily Hispanic, underclass populations of young men (with a smattering of some young women). Street fighting being a young man's game basically.

And along with that militarization has been the function of politics, urban political machines are utterly dependent on Black voters and secondarily Hispanic ones, and thus cannot crack down on violent actions, riots, "get free stuff" until AFTER a crisis has already been reached. Basically some Reginald Denny has to be beaten to near death and permanent crippling injury for the full force to be used, at which point the rioters/looters generally have free reign. Quite often politics intervenes because Mayors do not want to be thrown out of office by vengeful Black/Hispanic voters upset that their little looter/rioter was hauled to jail and spent six months in juvie. In Chicago Bobby Rush as much admitted that he represents basically gang members:

After Kirk proposed the mass arrests of as many as 18,000 of Chicago’s Gangster Disciples, Rush on Wednesday suggested the senator should keep his solutions to himself.

According to the Chicago Sun-Times’s Lynn Sweet, Rush called Kirk’s idea an “upper-middle-class, elitist white boy solution to a problem he knows nothing about.”

At any rate, when a society needs to make its police into pseudo soldiers, it has already lost control of its cities to blocs of voters who make up the criminal class.

Anononymous said...

And we already have some 'Reginald Denny's'.

Witness claims youths yelled 'this is for Trayvon' in beating

"several young black males and two black females chasing a 37-year-old Hispanic man
... the male with the gun beat the victim with what appeared to be his gun while others kicked and stomped him
... yelling, "This is for Trayvon, [expletive],"
... Using a translator, police spoke to the victim, who knows some English
... suspect ... told him, "What's up, [expletive]." When the victim raised his phone to call 911, the suspect raised his shirt and flashed a silver handgun in his waistband.

The victim turned and ran before he was caught in the 2800 block of Fairmont and was beaten"

------------------------------------------------

'This is for Trayvon. Kill that white': Six youths 'beat man, 78, in alleged racial revenge attack'
"A 78-year-old white man says he was savagely beaten by a gang of six youths shouting: 'This is for Trayvon. Kill that white.'
... on the way home from the shops
... the boys approached him and one said: 'Take him down.'
... For the next four minutes the youths continued to punch and kick Mr Watts, until he lost consciousness.
... they shouted: '[Get] that white [man]. This is for Trayvon ... Trayvon lives, white [man]. Kill that white [man].'

Mr. Anon said...

"Thus, if riots are largely the result of cops failing to enforce order, then the increasing professionalization (indeed, militarization, as seen in the Hunt for the Bomb Brothers) of police forces over the last generation, especially since 9/11, has made riots less common."

Yeah, now the cops do the rioting.

It is indisputable that police forces are becoming more militarized. However, I don't know that they are becoming more "professional" - perhaps they are just getting meaner.

Jack Hanson said...

As an infantry veteran and law enforcement, I've blogged about some of the reasons behind the militarization of law enforcement. A lot of the driving force behind it has been veterans coming home from the wars and their influence on police culture. There's been a great deal of deference to the experience of these vets, for better and for worst.

The "better" has been in the fact that law enforcement tactical training has improved leaps and bounds. However, actual people skills have suffered greatly. Instead of having officers who can 'win friends and influence enemies', you've got tacticool wannabees hiding behind mirror shades treating every shift like a patrol in Fallujah.

I'm honestly not a fan of where law enforcement is going in general. There's too many officers out there who can't defuse simple conflicts without it turning into Ruby Ridge.

That being said, you can definitely see a difference between police departments (who's chiefs are hired), and sheriff's departments (the sheriffs are elected).

Anonymous said...

Why are there "riots" whenever kentucky wins the tournament. One of the few examples of white riots.

Jefferson said...

At one time Los Angeles used to be one of the most desirable cities in the country to live in.

But that was back when the majority of Angelinos racially resembled the GOP.


Anonymous said...

"The stupidity of so many is just depressing"

This how I've been feeling for the last 10 years.

Anonymous said...

"A key example would be the huge 1992 Los Angeles riot. Was it caused more by the passionate outrage of the community ... or by the LAPD sulking over all the criticism they'd undergone, and thus wimping out"

Yes. You see it in Europe where the police are pussy-whipped by political correctness they don't even try to stop the rioting so it can go on for days or weeks.

.

"Thus, if riots are largely the result of cops failing to enforce order, then the increasing professionalization (indeed, militarization, as seen in the Hunt for the Bomb Brothers) of police forces over the last generation, especially since 9/11, has made riots less common."

This is the odd thing about the US where in many ways the police forces are even *more* PC than in Europe (at least on the surface) but at the same time are more prepared to use force directly.

Anonymous said...

"Why are there "riots" whenever kentucky wins the tournament. One of the few examples of white riots."

Genetics - white people in Kentucky are more recently barbarian.

Violence is a behavioural trait like any other and gets passed down and increased / decreased from generation to generation.

The reason black people have got so psycho is liberal social policies has created gang dominated underclass environments that literally *breed* impulsively violent inidividuals.

The core worst gangbangers in those environments, say 10%, father say 20-30% of the kids because the more violent the environment the more females prioritize protection and in gangbanger land going with one of the gang means you don't get raped by all of them.

hbd chick said...

George Zimmerman unlikely to face federal charges

Justice Department officials say they are unlikely to prosecute George Zimmerman because it would be hard to prove he acted out of racial bias.

Anonymous said...

This is a great website:

whitegirlbleedalot.com

It tracks black racial crime videos and, MERCIFULLY, is a credible source.

Here is the latest from L.A.:

http://whitegirlbleedalot.com/watch-how-often-the-reporters-apologize-for-the-violence/

Anonymous said...

So far, I've got counted three isolated "Trayvonning" assaults that made the news: the latino in Baltimore, the jogger in Mississippi, and the guy walking alone in Milwaukee.

The jogger in Mississippi went on the news (his face hidden) and said how he forgave his attackers. He sounded scared shitless. #stockholm
This was also same case that featured the half-asleep black detective who didn't want to repeat what was allegedly said in the kidnapping/assault by the perps to the victim.

I think the lesson in this is: be a little extra on your guard right now. Young black thugs will prey on a lone white or small group of whites who they perceive to be an easy target.

Anonymous said...

Exactly the same pattern is evolving in the UK.
Here it is a massive under-class of alienated, unemployed afro-carribean youths that pose a constant menace, (they've been here for nigh on 60 years now, are only getting worse year-by-year, yet New Labour was intent on importing even more of them).

Riots, (or as Steve pointed out mass looting sprees), pop up at random - always connected with the coppers killing 'one of their own' in dubious circumstances, as the fates indicate. Usually, a white innocent or a white copper has to be slaughtered by the mob as a blood sacrifice to avenge the death.

eah said...

Where's Riot Porn when you need it?

Anonymous said...

I really hope it's possible for Zimmerman to sue all the media organizations which used pictures of Zimmerman alongside baby pictures of Trayvon Martin

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/#1

instead of an actual picture from the time

http://media2.wptv.com//photo/2013/05/22/TM711_4_20130522123142_640_480.PNG

as the media doing that undermined his plea of self-defense.

neil craig said...

Same thing in the UK. Last summers riots followed on one relatively small one in London following the police shooting a known, black, thug who was probably not pointing the gun he had. The police did nothing to stop looting so the next day there was looting in various parts of London & they did nothing, so the next day there was increased looting in London and some across the rest of the country. At which point local shopkeepers set up community policing, the police started cracking down. The looting ended.

Later there was some serious sentencing of looters combined with politicians being shocked, shocked I say, about "right wing" groups keeping the peace.

Silver said...

"... they shouted: '[Get] that white [man]. This is for Trayvon ... Trayvon lives, white [man]. Kill that white [man].'"

I'm sure the police are 'investigating' whether race played a part in this assault. It's notoriously difficult to tell when the victim is white. There's an off chance it could have played a part in this case, but it's definitely not the sort of conclusion you want to jump to.

ben tillman said...

"Why are there "riots" whenever kentucky wins the tournament. One of the few examples of white riots."

Genetics - white people in Kentucky are more recently barbarian.


It's not just Kentucky. What did Larry Munson say after Lindsay Scott went 92 yards to beat Florida?

Do you know what is going to happen here tonight? And up at St. Simons and Jekyll Island and all those places where all those Dawg people have got these condominiums for four days? Man, is there going to be some property destroyed tonight!

Anonymous said...

1999 Seattle WTO Protests:

Police completely lost control, lots of vandalism, most of it directed against "corporate" storefronts by white masked youths (wearing hoodies!), but very little outright looting or violence against persons. I walked around in it for hours and never once felt unsafe.

That's how white rioters roll!

Anonymous said...

I believe that the riots were not spontaneous events, but were instead organized. Back before cell phone cameras and youtube the message could be controlled, so a riot could be a demonstration of force that wouldn't backfire. this has changed, and that is what I would credit with the fall in riots. the organizers aren't doing their part to make it happen any more.

Anonymous said...

hbd chick said...
George Zimmerman unlikely to face federal charges

Of course it's unlikely. If Whiskey said it's going to happen, then it's not going to happen. He's like a divining rod pointed the wrong way.

Anthony said...

The rioting (not riots) in Oakland was the leftover dregs of Occupy Oakland, which is racially mixed, but more white than black. There are pictures in the Daily Mail; the guy throwing a trash can at a window looks white.

pat said...

Some apologists used to say that the iron core of control by the USSR was needed lest the various ethnics tear each other apart. There seems to be some truth to that.

The Rodney King riots only killed about sixty people and only ten of them were whites. The next biggest race riot was in Detroit in 1967, and it killed even fewer.

In 1992 there were maybe as many as 1,000 deaths during the Osh riots. Three years ago they had an another ethnic riot in Osh with over 2,000 deaths.

America really doesn't have ethnic/racial violence by world standards. We are living out Rodney King's dream - we are all getting along.

Albertosaurus

Anonymous said...

Do you regret the prejudiced nonsense you've said about Latinos now, Steve?

Some alt-right types are now saying "whites, Latinos, and Asians" indicating some acceptance, just like they gave Asians a sort of acceptance earlier.

Anonymous said...

"America really doesn't have ethnic/racial violence by world standards."

Quite so. The revenge attacks that have happened are of course shameful, but they really don't compare to what, say, the Copts in Egypt are experiencing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23337659

Anonymous said...

Eric Garcetti has failed his first test. The failure of LAPD to take stronger action against hooligans, who have used Trayvon Martin, as a cover to jusify their violence and vandalism has probably damaged LA's tourism industry.

Anonymous said...

"If Whiskey said it's going to happen, then it's not going to happen."

Ask him about stock markets.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

Do you regret the prejudiced nonsense you've said about Latinos now, Steve?"

He hasn't written anything prejudiced about them, dipstick. He has made observations about facts. If it is prejudiced to notice things that are true, then we need more prejudice.

Anonymous said...

California is only 5th in total black population but first in the other three, White, Hispanic and Asian.

Anonymous said...

Whiskey lives were there are few blacks in Orange County Ca, only 2 percent. There are heavily Mexican towns Santa Ana or Anaheim or heavily Asian towns Westminster or Irvine but no heavily black town. In fact the OC is rated probably the lowest crime rate among the 10 largest counties since it has the least blacks.