August 15, 2013

This whole Egypt thing not really working out


50 comments:

rightsaidfred said...

Coming soon to a street corner near you.

Silver said...

How's it not working out? They're in the midst of a huge transition. Surely it's only to be expected that there will be bumps along the road.

At least they're acting in what they perceive to be their own interests, which is more than you can say for the average white American clown, who at best shifts uncomfortably when you point out to him he has racial interests that are now in the process of being steamrolled.

Dave Pinsen said...

If only there were a big infrastructure project the Egyptians could engage in that might soak up the joblessness and let all those angry young men exhaust their passions with physical exertion while stoking pride in Egypt's glorious ancient history, a time before there were Copts or Muslims.

Steve Sailer said...

The Islamists would kind of like to dismantle the pyramids. That could keep people occupied for awhile.

Anonymous said...

Steve,
I'm no big fan of political Islam, good heavens no. But I am a reluctant and forced believer in democracy - it's just about the only thing cynical old me can force a belief and allegiance to. Basically my position is that power must always be in the ultimate hands of 'the people' - if any non elected and no representative body seizes power for itself - whatever the justification - they must be opposed. It's not so much that I have a mystical belief in the primacy of 'the people' but more that I cannot stomach the usurpation of power by the unelected and unrepresentative, in other wors dicators, simply put *no one* has the right to seize power in this way and anyone who does so is inherently evil.

In this vein, I have full symapthy for Mohammed Morsi and the Islamic Brotherhood - as they are the legitimate democratically elected government of Egypt. If he Egyptian don't like them and don't want them, then they should throw them out at the next election.

It's also noteworthy that the USA that pontificates, pontificates and pontificates about 'democracy' and 'human rights' is as silent as a lamb over this monstrous injustice. Likewise the EU, that rotten dictatorship that never, ever fails to have a pop at Putin or Lukashenko.
Doesn't the furore over 'Pusst Riot' seem rather ridiculous against the mass murder of thousands?

No wonder the Arabs hate the west.

Anonymous said...

Of course, the whole Egyptian instability is linked to mass overpopulation and the scarcity of imported food - not to mention jobs.

(How does that pan out for you, numbskull utopian economists?)

The commodity price inflation of the past decade, (fuelled by China buying everything up due to 'globalist' dogma enabling them to gut western industry), knocked the stuffing out of Egypt.

Repeat after me 'globalism enriches all its paticipants'.

Dave Pinsen said...

What about a limited, collusive war with Israel? Egypt's generals talk Israel into staging an incursion into the Sinai, ostensibly to strike at Palestinian militants or smugglers or whatever. Then they gin up some nationalism + anti-Israel rage, conscript lots of young Islamists, and send them against Israel's army in a human wave assault, while the professional Egyptian military discretely pulls back. Israel wipes the conscripts out then pulls its troops out of the Sinai. Egypt declares a historic victory over Israel, and then lets John Kerry engage in some shuttle diplomacy to restore the peace.

spandrell said...

Easier to invade Ethiopia or something.

Silver said...

"The commodity price inflation of the past decade, (fuelled by China buying everything up due to 'globalist' dogma enabling them to gut western industry), knocked the stuffing out of Egypt."

That is bullshit. Egypt hasn't had the stuffing knocked out of it. Prior to the recent political turmoil Egypt's economy had been growing steadily and unemployment was not historically high. All that happened was that the people, in common with other Arabs, eventually tired of the social-political system they had been enduring. (How can anyone have a problem with this? What is the point of mocking Egyptians over it? What should they do instead, bend over and take it because they're "inferior Arabs"? Sheesh.)

As for food, look, prices fluctuate. That's economics. But no one in Egypt is starving. The world isn't on the verge of "running out of food." The next hundred years will be crucial, but population seems set to stabilize, there is sufficient cultivable land and agricultural productivity is likely to continue growing at a pace sufficient to meet future demand, so there is a very strong likelihood that all will prove well.

Shouting Thomas said...

How could it not be working out?

Prez Obama made a speech, didn't he?

Marlowe said...

By 1891, an Englishman remarked, Cairo resembled an English town which had retained oriental sights 'much as the proprietor of a country place keeps a game preserve or a deer park for his own amusement.' But the picturesque had its limits. Certainly visitors were entranced by minarets and mosques, their domes rising like 'great gilt and turquoise bubbles' above the palm trees and the house tops. They were charmed by Moorish arches and lattices, by carpet bazaars and spice markets, by street scenes filled with the 'dramatis personae of the Arabian nights'. They were dazzled by the abundant natural life and the kaleidoscope of colours in the Nile Valley.

However, Europeans were also horrified by the squalor and the confusion that reigned in Egypt. They were assailed by touts, pimps and deformed beggars whining for baksheesh. They saw tattooed harlots and bastinadoed slaves, emaciated dogs and maltreated donkeys, garbage-strewn slums and fly-blown souks. They witnessed indigo Bedouin and blue-shirted fellaheen 'living in filth and poverty unmatched even in India and China'. Still more shocking was the contrast between contemporary decadence and the stupendous relics of the first great civilisation. Living in the shadow of the romantics, Victorians were awed by the Ozymandian ruins of Memphis and Thebes, by the majesty of the pyramids at Gizeh and the splendour of the temples of Luxor. Once 'Mother of the World', Cairo now had an ashen look, seeming 'to have been buried in lava, and like Pompeii to have just been brought to light'. In the opinion of one traveller, Amelia Edwards, the Hall of Pillars at Karnak, known to the ancients as the forest of eternity, was 'the noblest architectural work ever designed and executed by human hand'. Yet the Egyptians, who had once summoned giants from solid rock were now 'a nation of slaves'. Florence Nightingale thought it 'good for British pride' to compare the titanic past with the present degradation and she wondered if England would 'turn into Picts again ... as Egypt has turned into Arabs'.

-- Piers Brendon, The Decline and fall of the British Empire, 2007

AMac said...

I'd like to start a betting pool: In a discussion of Egypt's Current Unpleasantness, when will the Cathedral media make its first mention of the striking parallels with Algeria? We haven't even got to "Turkey" yet.

This morning, CBS' Charlie Rose News Show had some Adventurous Blonde Girl-Correspondent chittering with Shapely Redhead News Anchor about "violence" and "democracy." Matched the level of insight on display at the State Dept. briefings that CSPAN Radio is kind enough to rebroadcast.

Obama and his hacks competing with Bush II and his hacks in a race to the bottom. Who will come in first? No matter, we all win!

Dromedary Heights said...

"This whole Egypt thing not really working out"


I don't know, it feels more and more like this is what America will look like in a decade.

Big bill said...

Anonymous: "[S]imply put *no one* has the right to seize power in this way and anyone who does so is inherently evil"

God bless you for your commitment to Truth, Beauty, and Goodness all over the world.

Please feel free to immigrate to Egypt today and fight for the "rights" of the Egyptian people.

Given that 83% of the Egyptian people polled think that summary execution should be the penalty for apostasy, given that the "freedom fighters" are burning down every Christian church they can find, you may have a bit of a tough sell over there.

Nonetheless, please feel free to leave America, follow your heart's desire and go give it a shot with your brothers-in-arms.

Don't let the door slap you in the butt on your way out.

Evil Sandmich said...

Of course, the whole Egyptian instability is linked to mass overpopulation and the scarcity of imported food - not to mention jobs.

Indeed, and as another commentator pointed out about war Ethiopia, that seemed the way Morsi was moving, and their casus belli wouldn't be groundless either since the Ethiopians are looking to thieve Nile water. Add in overpopulation in Kenya and perpetual instability in Somalia; it all gets very...interesting.

But yes Mr. Sailer, if you mean by 'not really working out' you're referring to government subsidies that cause overpopulation in the low IQ castes, then yes. Thus as the first commentor pointed out: coming soon to a street corner near you.

Hell_Is_Like_Newark said...

Egypt might have to invade Ethiopia. A dam is being built there that will further imperil Egypt's ability to grow its own food.

Another likely victim would be Libya (food and oil).

This is of course assumes Egypt's military managed to acquire enough fuel to keeps its tanks moving.

Anonymous said...

Former president Morsi was a bad man, and the Muslim Brotherhood's actions against Copts are shameful, but the coup (it was definitely a coup) was the wrong move by the military. Egyptians are getting the idea that whoever makes the most noise in the streets gets what they want. Worse, Islamists are getting the idea (understandably) that their wins in the ballot box will not be respected, and so that they need to use violence to achieve their goals.

Just let the Islamists govern, do a terrible job, and get booted out democratically. That's the way forward in these Arab countries.

Anonymous said...

eliminating the Christian population, destabilizing so they can't oppose Israel... if you're an NGO what's not to like?

Anonymous said...

The Islamists would kind of like to dismantle the pyramids. since the days of the sultons the Egypitians have realized westerners freak out over this - and they would frequently threatened (and often did) to destroy antiquities as 'blackmail'

of course, the Taliban gets front page lead story when they do it.. but when the secular governments of Turkey and Israel to it for their own agendas (no armernian churches and graveyards... mean there were no Armenians, likewise with non jewish archaeological sites in Israel) - no big deal!

Anonymous said...

"I'm no big fan of political Islam...No wonder the Arabs hate the west."

I think they'd probably hate us anyway but the hypocrisy is pretty sickening and gives them a good reason to hate us on top of any bad ones they might already have.

I've certainly come to hate the political and media elite of USUK.

The thing is if they said:

We think it is in our interests to intervene one way in Libya

and

We think it is in our interests to intervene in the opposite way in Egypt

then that would be that. But the public won't support wars unless there's a moral justification so the western elite make up all this spurious BS about protecting civilians or protecting democracy and then make themselves look like disgusting, hypocrital two-faced liars - and the rest of us the same by extension.

Anonymous said...

I've come to believe that Barack Obama does, as he told an aide, "really believe his own shit too much."

He really did believe that HE, a black man, a man raised for a portion of his life in a Muslim land, would cause the Arab world, hell, the whole world, to reassess itself to the point problems of the ages would be solved.

He really is, as Krauthammer said after observing him for almost 4 years, a "textbook narcissist."

Anonymous said...

"Of course, the whole Egyptian instability is linked to mass overpopulation and the scarcity of imported food - not to mention jobs."

Would like the hear (from maybe Cochran) a discussion of what the genetics of this area of the globe actually offer in the way of hope for peace.

I would imagine that it's a far cry away not just as a result of policies that have left many economically ravaged.

Anonymous said...

"In this vein, I have full symapthy for Mohammed Morsi and the Islamic Brotherhood - as they are the legitimate democratically elected government of Egypt."

What makes you think that all peoples will live more peacefully and more economically successfully with a "democracy"?

Auntie Analogue said...


In the sanitized, smugly tut-tutting p.c. language of today's West, Moslems and Islam simply must be a force for good since they oppose even the most ancient of pyramid schemes.

james wilson said...

It is remarkable how little the prospect of starving to death occupies Egyptians. Their hatred for the Renaissance, Jews, and Copts must be incredibly distracting.

Anonymous said...

The Arabs hate everything. It's what they do.

Florida resident said...

I am surprised that nobody mentions the dynamics of Egypt's population:
1948 --> 18,967;
1976 --> 36,626;
2006 --> 72,798;
2013 --> 84,314;
i.e. almost doubling each 30 years, and no tendency of slow-down. M.Brotherhood definitely would not be willing to stop that tendency.
Meanwhile, arable land stayed more or less the same through all these years, with some improvement after the building of Aswan High Dam.
What would you expect in this situation?

djoy said...

i've noticed that most US television media does not cover this anymore, in particular CNN, which now seems to cover almost anything other than the news. minor stupid human interest stories appear to be CNN's primary focus at this point and fill up most of their primetime schedule.

back in 2011 when it was just starting and nobody was getting killed and obama was praising it as a great thing, the US television media was covering this situation daily.

also, CNN has gone full blown over the top cultural marxist. it's actually hilarious, if you understand who the cultural marxists are, then watch CNN in 2013 to see them engaging in almost caricature level propaganda. you can go hours and hours without seeing a heterosexual european man on screen. they even deliberately go out of their way to find vibrant subject matter experts.

heck, the other day i even saw tim wise on CNN, along with an african 'psychologist' or doctor or something, talking about, what else, trayvon martin, and how it shows that the US remains a hopelessly racist place.

Anonymous said...

There is no 'Egypt thing' since we have no plan for its future. US is playing it by ear, which is all it can do.

PS. We might not be so tied to Egyptian affairs if not the Israel thing. Maybe Carter shouldn't have got involved in the peace deal. It just pulled us into the region, got Sadat killed, and let to lots of resentments with the entire region seeing Egypt, once the leader of the Arab world, as a stooge of the US.

Mark Plus said...

>Of course, the whole Egyptian instability is linked to mass overpopulation and the scarcity of imported food - not to mention jobs.

Egypt and Germany have about the same population, roughly 80 million. But Germany's population has an IQ about 20 points higher than Egypt's. If the two populations exchanged countries, I predict that Egypt under new ownership would mysteriously become a lot more prosperous. Meanwhile, the Egyptians would turn Germany into a cold, high-latitude version of their original country.

In other words, Egypt today suffers from "underintelligence," not from "overpopulation."

dearieme said...

Some news concerning the muslim world.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/girls-escape-forced-marriage-by-concealing-spoons-in-clothing-to-set-off-metal-detectors-at-the-airport-8764404.html

Hunsdon said...

Dave Pinsen: You scamp! I like the way you think.

Anonymous said...

How dare you suggest Egyptians love democracy less than Americans do?

Charles Krauthammer.

Anonymous said...

*In other words, Egypt today suffers from "underintelligence," not from "overpopulation."*

It's kind of cute how people still seem to show up at this blog for the first time and give us insights like this. Yeah, everybody here already knows why Egypt is messed up.


Winston said...

Steve, since you are a firm believer in IQ, it's safe to say you believe that people's innate abilities are different, and I'm curious about your views on democracy, which is largely based on popularism. Here is an interesting article in NYT, what's your opinion?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/10/opinion/meritocracy-versus-democracy.html?pagewanted=all

Anonymous said...

"The Arabs hate everything. It's what they do."

This sums it up.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
How dare you suggest Egyptians love democracy less than Americans do?

Charles Krauthammer.
__________________________

This doesn't sound like something CK would say; it sounds like something Karl Rove or G. Bush the Younger would say.

Cail Corishev said...

Meanwhile, arable land stayed more or less the same through all these years, with some improvement after the building of Aswan High Dam.
What would you expect in this situation?


As Mark Plus just suggested, if the next 10 million new Egyptian citizens were German, I'd expect the amount of arable land to increase dramatically.

Paul Mendez said...

This whole Egypt thing not really working out."

I dunno.

Any time you have Moslems killing Moslems over religious differences, that's not so bad.

Anonymous said...

Have they tried opening the borders?

Mark Plus said...

@Cail Corishev:

>As Mark Plus just suggested, if the next 10 million new Egyptian citizens were German, I'd expect the amount of arable land to increase dramatically.

Cairo lies at about the same latitude as Austin, Texas and the Hill Country, and the Germans who settled there seem to have thrived in that environment.

Anonymous said...

Americans blind belief in the magic of democracy has led to the bloody chaos of Iraq, Afghanistan and now Egypt. It is time American's acknowledged that the notion of the people's right to self determination has led to genocide of peoples like the Armenians and the blind belied in democracy has led to the bloody carnage of Egypt.

Tscottme said...

Any plan that has Muslim fighting Muslim can't be all bad. It's the only thing that keeps them busy and focused on someone besides us.

Anonymous said...

"Any time you have Moslems killing Moslems over religious differences, that's not so bad."

Setting aside the benighted morality this statement reflects, it's factually incorrect. The biggest losers in Egypt right now may be Coptic Christians (about 10% of the population). Muslim Brotherhood members have burned down some 50 churches in Egypt this past week.

Anonymous said...

There is more to success than intelligence. The Germans are less inclined to self-pity than the Arabs, and their culture is less fixated on saving face. They are also less clannish. Raise the average IQ of Egypt 20 points, and I consider it likely that it would still be a dysfunctional place.

Anonymous said...

democracy + meritocracy = demeritocracy

Matra said...

Amnesty International has called the junta's actions "excessive". That's the term they used to use in Northern Ireland when a terrorist was killed in action by the security forces. So the mass slaughter of people demanding that their vote count is no worse than that according to the world's foremost "human rights" organisation. Clearly liberals, starting with the Obama, don't have any problem with what this American-backed thugocracy is doing.

It's hard not to be struck by the white liberal mentality: when an Arab in the West might be stereotyped or, Lord forbid, deported, we must take all kinds of action but when hundreds, even thousands, of Arabs in their own part of the world are slaughtered they shrug.

Muslim Brotherhood members have burned down some 50 churches in Egypt this past week.

Given the size and power of the Egyptian security forces why are these attacks not being prevented? I'd say it is because the government wants the West to see Christians attacked so they gain moral leverage with the West? "OK, we led a military coup but look at how awful the Muslim Brotherhood is. We had no choice but to suspend democracy. Now, keep sending his money and arms so we can better protect the embattled Christians."

IHTG said...

Hmmm http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4418953,00.html

Anonymous said...

Given the size and power of the Egyptian security forces why are these attacks not being prevented? I'd say it is because the government wants the West to see Christians attacked so they gain moral leverage with the West? "OK, we led a military coup but look at how awful the Muslim Brotherhood is. We had no choice but to suspend democracy. Now, keep sending his money and arms so we can better protect the embattled Christians."

(I'm the anonymous earlier.) I definitely wouldn't put this past the Egyptian military. That said, these attacks haven't been widely reported in the Western press, so if this is their plan I don't know how effective it is.

Anonymous said...

Matra said "Given the size and power of the Egyptian security forces why are these attacks not being prevented? I'd say it is because the government wants the West to see Christians attacked so they gain moral leverage with the West?"

That presupposes TPTB in the West care about Christians.