March 25, 2014

Todashev shooting: FBI maintains 71 out of 71 hot streak in killing only folks who had it coming

Remember Ibragim Todashev, the Chechen friend of older Boston Bomb Brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who supposedly was confessing to helping Tamerlan in the ritualistic murder of three Waltham, MA dope dealers on the 10th anniversary of 9/11, when he suddenly attacked an FBI man and was shot dead?

The Civil Rights Division of the DOJ has issues its report on the shooting, and what do you know, the feds have determined, for at the least the 71st consecutive FBI shooting, that the FBI done good.

Todashev was the son of an important government official in Chechnya, who is two steps down the org chart from Ramzan Kadyrov and thus only three down from Vladimir Putin. Yet, young Todashev managed to obtain refugee status in America, even though he told his dad he wasn't coming here because he feared violence at home but because America has better gyms for training to become an MMA fighter.

Of course, nobody will issue a report on how in the world Todashev got asylum.

Interesting bits from the DOJ report:
Todashev had an arrest record for assaultive behavior. In 2010, he was arrested in Boston for disorderly person and resisting arrest. In 2012, Todashev was accused of assaulting another man in an Osceola County, Florida bar. On May 4, 2013, he was arrested in Orlando for aggravated battery. In this latter incident, Todashev allegedly fought two men, knocking one unconscious. The Massachusetts Investigative Team was aware of Todashev’s arrests for assaultive conduct, knew from his gym associates that he was known as a tenacious martial arts fighter, had viewed the YouTube postings of his mixed martial arts competitions, and strongly suspected his involvement in the brutal 2011 triple homicide.

Is it too much to ask that the feds also check out arrest records and Youtube videos of guys claiming to be terrified refugees? The pattern I've noticed is that successful asylum seekers these days seem to be disproportionately connected to the power structure in their home country. They are often the folks with the money and bureaucratic expertise to construct sad stories to win residency in the U.S.

Now, you could argue that poor Todashev's life was in some danger in Chechnya because Kadyrov might eventually be overthrown in a Third War of Chechen independence, and then the relatives of all the victims of Kadyrov's and Putin's bully boys will come after the relatives of their former oppressors. But, still ...
... While there are audio/video recordings of the interview of Todashev earlier that evening, there are no recordings of the shooting. ... 

The interviewer who was recording the interview on his cell phone switched to looking at his text messages.
In response to continuing questioning, [Todashev] hesitantly, but indisputably, admitted complicity in the murders. The verbal confession was recorded on the troopers’ recording devices. ... 

And supposedly the last sentence of his partially handwritten confession admitted guilt just before he ran amok. But we're not allowed to see that yet:
Because the investigation of the triple murder continues, the Middlesex County, Massachusetts District Attorney has requested that the details provided in Todashev’s confession not be made public at this time. ... 
According to both the Agent and the Assisting Trooper, Todashev refused to comply with commands to show his hands. The Assisting Trooper saw Todashev grab a metal utility pole from the corner next to the front door. While the Assisting Trooper attempted unsuccessfully to draw his handgun, Todashev raised the pole over his head, holding it with both hands in “a trained fighting position” as he charged at the Assisting Trooper. The Assisting Trooper raised his arms up in front of his face to block an impending blow. According to the Assisting Trooper, he expected to be “impaled” by the pole. 
The Assisting Trooper heard a volley of gunfire from his right. He saw the gunfire strike Todashev and Todashev fall to, or partially to, the floor, then quickly regain his footing and lunge toward the Assisting Trooper. The Assisting Trooper estimated that Todashev’s body was coming back at them at a 45 degree angle from the floor. He heard a second volley of gunfire. The Assisting Trooper saw the impact of the bullets twist Todashev’s body back and forth. He thought he heard three or four shots in each volley. The Assisting Trooper further declared that, had he been able to draw his handgun in time, he “absolutely” would have shot Todashev because the Assisting Trooper feared for his own life. ... 
Todashev suffered gunshot wounds from seven bullets.

So, Todashev was hit three times in the first volley, but he still got up and was coming at the FBI shooter when four more bullets put him down for good.

Whatever else you want to say about him, he died like a true Chechen.
   

47 comments:

Svigor said...

I try to tell people that bullets from small arms are pretty much never instantly fatal unless one makes a substantial impact on the central nervous system (brain or spinal cord). Every other kind of wound, even the fatal kind, takes quite a bit of time to play out, usually via blood loss. Even with a catastrophic heart wound it takes 5-10 seconds to bleed out, IIRC. 5-10 seconds is a a long time in a life-and-death confrontation at close range. And that's about as quickly as a non-central-nervous-system wound can play out.

OrangeKangaroo said...

Look at the FBI agent's bloody head: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588974/FBI-agent-justified-shooting-Tsarnaev-friend-dead-attacked-pole-admitting-Tamerlan-killed-drug-dealers-says-prosecutor.html

This may have been legit self-defense...

Anonymous said...

This American Life did a show about the Todashev killing, and Boston Magazine ran a corresponding article as well.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/519/dead-men-tell-no-tales

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/02/25/waltham-murders-boston-marathon/

Luke Lea said...

Chechens -- they will fear no evil because they are the meanest mfer's in the valley.

Sideways said...

Congratulate the cop on hitting a target 7 times.

Anonymous said...

In other news, Right Sector leader gets clipped by the cops:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26729273

Melendwyr said...

Not to be all conspiracy theorist, but we know nothing about how he died. We don't really have any evidence, only testimony from less-than-trustworthy sources.

We only know about the "Tonkin Gulf Incidents" that weren't carried through successfully - frankly, I suspect the government has gotten better at them with practice.

Alexandre Vladimirski said...

Raise your knives and forks like a Chechen at a Moscow Gangster Banquet!

Alexandre Vladimirski said...

What do they make Chechen nervous systems out of? A Vodka Stalin Alloy?

Anonymous said...

Why on god's green earth are we letting such people come to this country?

Hepp said...

Rachel Maddow opened with this story tonight. She talks about how this makes a record of 151-0.

But why is this surprising? I don't believe that law enforcement goes around summarily executing people. They generally are people who have demonstrated some level of aptitude and self-control. And they go out and arrest the most dangerous people in society. I think it's completely believable that in the vast majority of cases, when the FBI shoots a criminal, there was a very good reason for doing so.

Anonymous said...

Its funny you mention this. The FBI gets a pass shooting someone threatening them with a stick.

Meanwhile the Border Patrol has to justify to the ACLU and La Raza why their agents should be allowed to defend themselves with gunfire from noble undocumented border migrants bombarding them with softball sized rocks.

Anonymous said...

The Atlantic monthly writer Conor Friedersdorf touched upon this subject recently. I commented on his site that the mystery regarding this situation was not the shooting, but how this man gained entry to our country as a refugee.

The comment was deleted within hours.

anony-mouse said...

According to Bill James' 'Popular Crime' book, cops have been killing fewer people than they used to.

John Dillinger is 111.

Anonymous said...

Some time earlier, didn't some guy sustain similar, or even worse head wounds?

I can't remember if the media were so keen to justify shooting in this case.

Fred Mitchell said...

"He died like a true Chechen".

Um, no. Going from "blood"--a culturally specific metaphor for kinship--to biological relatedness, well there's a wide gap between them.

The fact is that in primitive kinship-based societies, kinship is often not a matter of biology. It can even be a matter of eating from the same land, which obviously has political implications beyond biology.

Even in our culture, consider adoption, for instance. So once you talk about kinship-based circles of loyalty, you're already far away from biology.

Given such a wide variation in concepts of kinship, why should cultures naturally follow the Western understanding of kinship? Or to ask it another way, if biology is so important, why are non-biological concepts of kinship so widespread?

The SOB got his just deserts by law enforcement as a true thug. His nationality had NOTHING to do with it.

Whiskey said...

If Law Enforcement, really really really wants someone dead, why you would not believe how many hard guys end up hanging themselves in prison and jail. Its astonishing.

Shooting someone? That means at a min, FBI or local law enforcement reviews, or BOTH, the DOJ involvement, pressure on various institutions by ethnic/race groups (unless the shooting victim is White, never mind). TONS of paperwork and forms, and countless hours of interrogation, possible discipline and suspension, and certainly desk riding (anathema for "go out and do stuff" field guys) and a whole lot of people who would love to collect an FBI or Cop's scalp after them.

Meanwhile a very suspiciously large amount of genuine hard guy tough cases seem to hang themselves in prison and jail.

Incentives. People respond to them.

And yeah, the guy died like a Chechen.

Anonymous said...

OT but might be interesting in the light of all those Ukraine posts:
Sashko Belyi (that Kalashnikov-wielding face of the "Right sector") has been killed yesterday. Ukraine media immediately went to blame Russians but today Ukraine police ("MVD") admitted that the death was the result of its own "special operation." Goes to confirm what some commenters said before: Neonazis were used as useful idiots and their time is over. The true masters of the entire regime change in Ukraine are Yatsenyuk-like neocons - and they are making sure that they've got no competition. The idiots do not understand that they themselves are being used as useful idiots against Russia...

Rob said...

From Wikipedia:

When the Russian embassy in Washington learned of Todashev's shooting, it asked the U.S. government for the relevant documentation, including the autopsy report as well as information about the firearms used in the incident.

Didn't know the Russians were so concerned about Chechens.

Anonymous said...

Steve, no post or comment on the passing of James Rebhorn?

panjoomby said...

wichita state made it to 35 wins before becoming 35 - 1. you go, FBI!

Steve Sailer said...

James Rebhorn always played super-WASPy businessmen or government officials (e.g., the President's advisor in Independence Day who admits that the President hasn't been told quite everything about Area 51, the shipbuilder who wants his son Jude Law to come home in "The Talented Mr. Ripley"), although he was a Lutheran himself.

Steve Sailer said...

He died of skin cancer, which is a very WASPy way to go.

Prof. Woland said...

One reason cops hate making arrests in domestic violence fights is that they have a fairly high chance of being shot. They are inside someone's home, usually at night, and the person who they are coming to investigate is forewarned and already pissed off. Knowing that this guy had already been associated with three known assaults I am sure they were on high alert. My only suggestion is that the cops should have carried a bigger gun.

countenance said...

There is something to this story the Feds want covered up.

How do I know this?

Because the FBI wants one of the principal people in this matter to be deported.

When the Feds actually want to deport you, then you know something's up.

Anonymous said...

In other news, Right Sector leader gets clipped by the cops:

That's terrible. I was hoping to see him give Yatsenyuk the same treatment he gave that guy in the prosecutor's office.

I hope this inflames the right and causes them to fight this new government.

Anonymous said...

James Rebhorn's self-penned obituary was a paean to the best of old-school mainline Protestant liberalism--he praised his family, his church, and his unions.

Rebhorn's also an example of how phrenology has never died among casting directors. His high forehead and sharp features led to him always getting cast as patricians, authority figures, and cerebral types.

Steve Sailer said...

"Rebhorn's also an example of how phrenology has never died among casting directors."

Great call. I've got to do some research on casting directors as phrenologists. I read a bunch of articles on casting directors a year ago, but they were all about how brilliantly they put two stars together (e.g., Midnight Cowboy). What I'm interested in is the supporting actors: why was James Rebhorn obviously going to be a CIA Director rather than a Marine Corps general? Casting directors know intuitively that audiences would get confused if Rebhorn was cast as a Teamster rather than an executive, and that would slow down the movie. Can any of them articulate general principles of what human beings expect in terms of personality and class based on facial bone structure?

Mr. Anon said...

"Steve Sailer said...

James Rebhorn always played super-WASPy businessmen or government officials (e.g., the President's advisor in Independence Day who admits that the President hasn't been told quite everything about Area 51, the shipbuilder who wants his son Jude Law to come home in "The Talented Mr. Ripley"), although he was a Lutheran himself."

He also played the DA who sent Jerry, George, Elaine, and Kramer up the river in the series finale.

Anonymous said...

"Why on god's green earth are we letting such people come to this country?"

Part of the stealth color revolution war on Russia.

.

"The SOB got his just deserts by law enforcement as a true thug. His nationality had NOTHING to do with it."

1) It's quite possible his death is the only true part of the story e.g. mad at a deal being broken - deportation?

2) Why is organized crime - apart from the banking version - dominated by clannish populations from mountainous regions with a long history of vendetta as the only law - coincidence?

.

"were used as useful idiots and their time is over. The true masters of the entire regime change in Ukraine are Yatsenyuk-like neocons"

Yes, if the Svoboda / Right Sector guys want to survive they better move fast.

.


"Rebhorn's also an example of how phrenology has never died among casting directors."

A very cool point I hadn't thought of - my favorite thing :)

The two guys who played Q in James Bond movies are a good example of the same type.

Cinematic Phrenology


http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2013/01/28/1226563/624872-james-bond-skyfall-personalised-gun.gif

Mr. Anon said...

"Hepp said...

But why is this surprising? I don't believe that law enforcement goes around summarily executing people."

According to a sheriff who helped the FBI run down Pretty Boy Floyd, Agent Melvin Purvis just summarily executed him. The FBI also murdered Vicki Weaver while she had an infant in her arms.

Cops and FBI agents have probably unlawfully killed more people then you realize.

Auntie Analogue said...


So, the FBI has no line item in its budget for, you know, Tasers?

Such an important, key suspect and, instead of neutralizing Todashev with a jolt of juice, the agents cut him down in a fusillade of lethal gunfire?

Might one be forgiven for this incident bringing to mind "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"?

Anonymous said...

I won't be happy until the FBI sends the bill for the seven bullets to the dead Chechen's family.

Anonymous said...

"But why is this surprising? I don't believe that law enforcement goes around summarily executing people."

I think the general rule is law enforcement will be about half as bad as the worse criminals they have to deal with.

(Hence different forces, precincts and units can be much worse than others depending on their version of "normal".)

Anonymous said...

Wonder if the FBEye had become frustrated after the Chechen refused to turn into an FEEbEE stooge?

Chicago said...

It's possible people like this are deliberately allowed to come in, despite the lack of a valid refugee claim, is that they may be deemed a good possible recruitment target by US government agencies. They're natives, speak the language, can travel around, go back and forth and have some connections back home so that it's plausible they might move up the ladder over there someday. The fly in the ointment in the case of this group is that they had personal characteristics that made them unstable and ended up as liabilities. Outwardly, though, it probably seemed at the outset that they had possibilities.

Mr. Anon said...

"Prof. Woland said...

One reason cops hate making arrests in domestic violence fights is that they have a fairly high chance of being shot. They are inside someone's home, usually at night, and the person who they are coming to investigate is forewarned and already pissed off. Knowing that this guy had already been associated with three known assaults I am sure they were on high alert. My only suggestion is that the cops should have carried a bigger gun."

So why didn't they invite him down to the local station house to interview/interrogate him. The fact that they conducted a lengthy interrogation of him in his home was one of the things that was suspicious about the whole thing.

slumber_j said...

Uhhhh, what's a "metal utility pole?" Is it sort of like the "yoga stick" that was initially supposed to have been deployed in the murder of a neighbor of mine in NYC a few years back?

Hepp said...

"I think the general rule is law enforcement will be about half as bad as the worse criminals they have to deal with.

(Hence different forces, precincts and units can be much worse than others depending on their version of "normal".)"

Interesting theory, though I believe it varies by culture. The gap between criminals and cops in Russia is probably much smaller than the gap in the United States. And the FBI is likely much more competent and professional than most local and state police.

Hunsdon said...

There's been a growing desire on the part of US police forces to have folks recognize, and submit to, their authority. Chechens are famously poor at this. Our cops HATE HATE HATE* getting laughed at.


* Whiskey, your residual check is in the mail.

Anonymous said...

" who supposedly was confessing to helping Tamerlan in the ritualistic murder of three"

If the bomb brothers did not go through with the bombing, would the FBI have investigated the ritualistic murder of three?

SeriousQuestion said...

Steve, would someone be excluded from WASPhood for having one great grandparent who was a german immigrant farmer and from whom you got your Lutheranism?

I'm Western Canadian and I don't fully understand the WASP rules. (Presumably the Laurentian Elite know more about that type of thing)

Anonymous said...

@Chicago: It's possible people like this are deliberately allowed to come in, despite the lack of a valid refugee claim, is that they may be deemed a good possible recruitment target by US government agencies.

Retired Fed here...you are 100% correct, and it happens a lot; several hundred times per year and these are bad & dangerous people.

Svigor said...

Our cops HATE HATE HATE* getting laughed at.

That's because most of them are lil' tyrants. They got the badge because they want the instant "respect" that goes with authority. Laughing at them ruins their cosplay.

jody said...

7 hits from a handgun to put down a trained, motivated, experienced man in his physical prime is not unusual at all. i don't know for sure what the FBI was using there, but winchester .40 S&W 180 grain PDX 1 bullets are the FBI standard right now so that's a good guess.

with semi automatic handgun fire, sometimes guys go down with 1 hit, sometimes it takes more than 10. handguns are not that effective at putting people down. effective at making you bleed to death 20 minutes later? sure. effective at stopping you in your tracks and making you dead right this second, not so much. the FBI has been working for years to make handguns MORE dangerous. you can see why.

usually when guys get hit they either keep coming or turn and run away. they rarely stop and drop from 1 hit of semi auto handgun fire. you have to get up into magnum revolver rounds above .357 magnum before people start dropping like they got hit by a truck, and nobody wants to carry handguns in .41 magnum or up. the guns are too big and heavy, slow to aim, recoil a lot, and you're simply outgunned by opponents with big magazine 9x19s. the police found the same thing as the military. volume of fire matters.

FBI should probably start using federal HST hollow points. those are the most effective right now.

"I try to tell people that bullets from small arms are pretty much never instantly fatal unless one makes a substantial impact on the central nervous system (brain or spinal cord)."

i don't know about that. 200 pound men die pretty fast once they start getting hit by .308 winchester and up. any decent hit from .50 BMG and you're dead rather quickly, and .50 BMG is not even that big on the gun scale - 12mm is nuisance fire for any armor.

machineguns are really genuinely dangerous, and they're small arms. they can inflict 10 fatal hits per second.

i'm not into shotguns but 12 gauge shotguns loaded with 1 ounce slugs or buckshot can definitely make you dead in 10 to 15 seconds with one hit.

Mr. Anon said...

"jody said...

7 hits from a handgun to put down a trained, motivated, experienced man in his physical prime is not unusual at all."

It's also not unusual in cases of murder.

For a cop to empty half a magazine into an innocent person isn't that unusual either. If it turns out to have been a bad shooting, there won't be an eyewitness to testify against him.

Cadet/Off./Sgt./Lt./Capt. Hightower said...

After this initially happened I was listening to a weekend show on the local Clear Channel AM talk station. It's hosted by this dim ex-actress/bimbo/whatever who specialized in the late-night cable movie genre (a pre-Internet phenomenon). She expressed some misgivings about a guy being shot while already in custody of the feds, basically said it didn't add up, then put some calls on air, naturally many of whom were men identifying themselves as cops/ex-cops/security guards/whatever (who either make up a lot of the caller pool on L.A. radio or are just able to convince the call screener). Anyway more than one of these cliche commentators recited the same thuggish pushback: "I'VE HAD SUSPECTS IN CUSTODY WHO JUMPED ME, BLAH BLAH, CONCEALED BLADE IN SLEEVE, BLAH, YOU DON'T KNOW HARD IT IS BEING A COP BLAH BLAH." I thought, wow, if even this out-to-lunch weekend host could see the ACLU/Serpico side of the argument, how polarized has our national police-centurion class become... And I don't mean movies with Michael Winslow making beatbox sound effects