tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post1300470867086752116..comments2024-03-15T20:52:26.967-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Obama on Affirmative Action: Don't End It, Don't Mend It, Extend It!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74893878127712373402008-07-20T00:26:00.000-07:002008-07-20T00:26:00.000-07:00becarefull is all i can say just look at south afr...becarefull is all i can say just look at south africaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35292854137280342692007-05-16T22:34:00.000-07:002007-05-16T22:34:00.000-07:00If your point is that the "white" category include...<I>If your point is that the "white" category includes people who are physically nonwhite, consider that a person whose physical appearance is totally, 100% lily-white is nonetheless classified as nonwhite if he or she has even the slightest iota of black ancestry. Are you pale skinned, blonde-haired and blue-eyed? If great-great-great granddad was black, legally you are too.</I><BR/><BR/>Categorized by <I>who</I>? People categorize themselves these days. I am pasty white European, but if I marked "African American" on the next census, the Bureau would be none the wiser. They'd count me and my family as black.<BR/><BR/>AA in business and college is based more on appearance and surnames than on alleged ancestry. (Trust me - I'm 3.125% American Indian, and I know that I'll never qualify as an AA appointee in anyone's manual.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87525524113746762182007-05-16T22:27:00.000-07:002007-05-16T22:27:00.000-07:00"If I was [a benefit of affirmative action], then ...<I>"If I was [a benefit of affirmative action], then I certainly am not ashamed of the fact, for I would argue that affirmative action is important precisely because those who benefit typically rise to the challenge when given an pportunity.</I><BR/><BR/>OR...they could have risen to the challenge BEFORE applying for the job, by qualifying for it on the merits. My guess is that those people who don't do such won't rise to the occasion afterwards, either.<BR/><BR/>Back in the early 1970s, before affirmative action had kicked in, about 3% of American doctors were black. 20 years later, after two decades of affirmative action...3% of American doctors were black.<BR/><BR/>And FWIW, I think the moderation is great. I don't miss guys like "Jupiter."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33329304107823511692007-05-16T20:06:00.000-07:002007-05-16T20:06:00.000-07:00Moderating posts might keep trolls out but it mess...Moderating posts might keep trolls out but it messes up the flow of conversation. If someone has replied to another poster, but their comment has not yet appeared, I might think that they havent replied yet, and write my own reply, which looks useless and out of place when the other one appears. I liked it better the way it was.Stopped Clockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18155709284859187212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-2461904124683847452007-05-16T17:00:00.000-07:002007-05-16T17:00:00.000-07:00something that mightnot have even been raised with...<I>something that might<BR/>not have even been raised with respect to a white former<BR/>president of the Review</I><BR/><BR/>Thanks for the paste, Anon.<BR/><BR/>Blacks love to play the babe in the woods routine vis-a-vis "Affirmative Action" (sounds like a name the Einsatzgruppen might've given one of their programs); "I'll pretend not to know what it's really about, and you'll pretend there's no witch hunt waiting to pounce on you if you question me." Obviously, he's implying that questioning a black's qualifications be raciss, and assuming no one will question him (i.e., ask why it's racist to wonder if a member of a group eligible for preferences did in fact receive preferences).Svigorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397917915404344439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21941043062628646532007-05-16T10:44:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:44:00.000-07:00Just so you know Steve, this gay new moderation me...Just so you know Steve, this gay new moderation method of yours is causing pages to regularly eat my posts (FF 1.5).Svigorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397917915404344439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75423842943354966612007-05-16T08:32:00.000-07:002007-05-16T08:32:00.000-07:00from the article linked by cvc..--According to JBH...from the article linked by cvc..<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>According to JBHE's latest survey, the Harvard Law Review was the only review at which blacks made up a<BR/>larger percentage of the editorial board than of the student body at the law school. The Harvard Law Review has a long history of choosing black editors.<BR/>...<BR/>In 1991 Barack Obama was the first Afncan American to be named president of the Harvard Law Review. Obama, now 38 years old, is a graduate of Columbia University, After college he served as the director of the Developing Communities Project, a not-for-profit organization on Chicago's South Side, that provided job-training programs and college preparatory classes for low-income students. In 1988 Obama was accepted and enrolled at Harvard Law School. He was elected to the law review in his second year and, during his third year, was elected president of the Haward Law Review, the first African American to hold that post.<BR/>...<BR/>"I had established a presence<BR/>in the classroom and in other activities during my first<BR/>year of law school -serving as an editor on the Harvard<BR/>Civil Rights-Civil Liberties Review, assisting several professors on their scholarly work, and campaigning actively on issues of diversity in faculty hiring. As a result, I think my peers and professors knew that I took my work at the law school seriously and were less likely to question my qualifications for a spot on the Review. Moreover, by the time I was<BR/>elected to the presidency of the Review, the peers who voted for me had worked with me in close quarters for over a year<BR/>and were pretty familiar with my accomplishments."<BR/><BR/>"I have no way of knowing whether I was a beneficiary of -<BR/>affirmative action either in my admission to Harvard or my<BR/>initial election to the Review," Obama told JBHE. "If I was,<BR/>then I certainly am not ashamed of the fact, for I would argue<BR/>that affirmative action is important precisely because those<BR/>who benefit typically rise to the challenge when given an opportunity. Persons outside Harvard may have perceived my<BR/>election to the presidency of the Review as a consequence of<BR/>affirmative action, since they did not know me personally. At<BR/>least one white friend of mine mentioned that a federal appellate<BR/>court judge asked him during his clerkship whether I had been elected on the merits. And the issue did come up among those who were making the hiring decisions at the University of Chicago] law school -something that might<BR/>not have even been raised with respect to a white former<BR/>president of the Review."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-77524217652826643362007-05-16T06:39:00.000-07:002007-05-16T06:39:00.000-07:00well the timing of this article was convenient!yah...well the timing of this article was convenient!<BR/><BR/>yahoo news:<BR/><BR/>Affirmative action is failing in South Africa<BR/><BR/>May 15 '07<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/2dfgmoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12060156050205100682007-05-16T06:36:00.000-07:002007-05-16T06:36:00.000-07:00I got into the JSTOR article. After Barack Obama ...I got into the JSTOR article. After Barack Obama said the quote you posted, he went on to add "If I was [a beneficiary], then I certainly am not ashamed of the fact, for I would argue that affirmative action is important precisely because those who benefit typically rise to the challenge when given an opportunity. Persons outside Harvard may have perceived my election to the presidency of the Review as a consequence of affirmative action, since they did not know me personally."<BR/><BR/>Also: South Africa doesn't really have anything like what we are familiar with as Affirmative Action. What they have is government agencies designed to restrict the economic activities of whites and other minorities such as Indians, all of whom are richer than the majority blacks. <BR/><BR/>(Uh-oh, comment moderation. I guess it had to happen.)<BR/><BR/>Did my first post go through? If this is a duplicate post, I apologize.Stopped Clockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18155709284859187212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90355221696656228372007-05-16T02:15:00.000-07:002007-05-16T02:15:00.000-07:00how do you handle a nation where the majority of p...<I>how do you handle a nation where the majority of people will get affirmative action for their entire lives? how much affirmative action does south africa have, and how do they handle having a majority eligible for it?</I><BR/>Posted by Jody<BR/><BR/>-----------------------<BR/><BR/>By massive taxation and making the whites do the jobs of their incompetent black bosses. Though, South Africa isnt the only country with a majority in AA. Malaysia has it too, I believe the Malays make 51-53% of the population and get AA against the Chinese and Indian minorities - but its definitely a softer AA than the draconian SA one. (Read Sowell's Affirmative Action around the world for the Malay case study).<BR/><BR/>An important point to consider in the SA case is that the whites are leaving as fast as they can pack their bags. Out of the ~6 mil there, over a million have left. Its worse than it sounds because that million is concentrated in the 18-40 group, so its more like half or more of the productive whites have left.MensaRefugeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00140097855923319224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3622709087747014332007-05-15T22:27:00.000-07:002007-05-15T22:27:00.000-07:00I tried to find out if anyone ever asked Barry if ...I tried to find out if anyone ever asked Barry if he benefited from affirmative action. I only found <A HREF="http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1077-3711(200024%2F200124)30%3C22%3ATFBPOT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-X" REL="nofollow">this</A> (which I can't access) where he says "I have no way of knowing whether I was a beneficiary of affirmative action either in my admission to Harvard or my initial election to the Review." Sure.C. Van Carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918883799053031223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30102519068313101482007-05-15T19:53:00.000-07:002007-05-15T19:53:00.000-07:00Police departments all over the country classify m...<I>Police departments all over the country classify mestizo perps as "white" because they are under pressure from the FBI to do so ... The US census is full of meaningless categories. For example: "white". The Iraqi refugees from this conflict are going to be classified as "white" and "non-Hispanic white" in the next census.</I><BR/><BR/>If your point is that the "white" category includes people who are physically nonwhite, consider that a person whose physical appearance is totally, 100% lily-white is nonetheless classified as nonwhite if he or she has even the slightest iota of black ancestry. Are you pale skinned, blonde-haired and blue-eyed? If great-great-great granddad was black, legally you are too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79465188659671205022007-05-15T19:25:00.000-07:002007-05-15T19:25:00.000-07:00And as in Prop 13 or other causes needing only a c...<I>And as in Prop 13 or other causes needing only a candidate or cause to lead to a political upheaval of the current regime.</I><BR/><BR/>Hopefully this political upheaval will involve repeal of Prop 13 - it has been an all-around disaster for CA. How much "native ability" does it take to realize this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21179613914299880652007-05-15T17:59:00.000-07:002007-05-15T17:59:00.000-07:00I'm all for colleges weighting class background in...I'm all for colleges weighting class background in applications. There are tons of smart kids from all racial backgrounds who have the brains and the will to succeed, but were stuck in crappy schools with few or no AP classes, no expensive SAT preps, and mediocre to lousy teachers, putting them at a disadvantage when up against the resume-polishers of the upper middle class suburbs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1777205258199679222007-05-15T16:20:00.000-07:002007-05-15T16:20:00.000-07:00that makes me wonder how "Hispanic" is going to be...<I>that makes me wonder how "Hispanic" is going to be handled in 2040</I><BR/><BR/>Deconstructing the language itself is a key step toward an Orwellian future. If the powers that be can label crucial issues with terms that have ambiguous meanings (like Hispanic), then they can conceal any agenda. <BR/><BR/>Hispanic means whatever the government wants it to mean. Sort of like Comprehensive Immigration Reform or War Czar. <BR/><BR/>Police departments all over the country classify mestizo perps as "white" because they are under pressure from the FBI to do so. But the same group of people is classified as Hispanic when they are victims of crime. <BR/><BR/>The US census is full of meaningless categories. For example: "white". The Iraqi refugees from this conflict are going to be classified as "white" and "non-Hispanic white" in the next census. <BR/><BR/>Deconstruction of language is basic strategy for all tyrannical regimes. Language control > idea control > media control > social control. <BR/><BR/>In the modern era, if a politician sticks to the PC lexicon (the new Newspeak), there is no way to determine where exactly they stand on any issue. That is the entire point. Because where they stand is almost always against the majority of the people's interest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-2723310120360544962007-05-15T15:13:00.000-07:002007-05-15T15:13:00.000-07:00Politics are, essentially, divvying up the spoils....Politics are, essentially, divvying up the spoils.<BR/><BR/>IMHO we seem to be getting towards a tipping point in politics where large masses of ordinary Anglo voters are seeing the spoils going to other groups. And as in Prop 13 or other causes needing only a candidate or cause to lead to a political upheaval of the current regime.<BR/><BR/>Steve is correct in his estimation that Wealthy White Elites won't give up the Affirmative Action hammer to keep lower class whites out of the upward mobility ladder. He's dead wrong that it's because of competence or IQ. It's because of privilege. If anything the threat is perceived to be much greater from working and middle class whites because they have both intellectual (native ability) and social (generally disciplined work habits) capital that African-American and Hispanic groups are perceived to lack (by the White Elites).<BR/><BR/>Ultimately scarce resources are going to be fought over. Given that Middle Class Whites still make up the majority of voters and citizens, despite the open borders proponents and efforts to dilute them with unfettered immigration, I don't see the current Affirmative Action status quo being sustainable much longer. Any more than the dominance of the NorthEastern Federalist-Whig coalition around John Quincy Adams could hold off the Westerners embodied by Andrew Jackson, or slavery compromises could hold off the Middle West ascendancy of Lincoln and the Republicans, etc.<BR/><BR/>Even admission to the "best" schools makes a huge difference in lifetime earnings which parents know and of course resent bitterly: "their" child's spot going to a minority who is not viewed as kin, etc. This is why the Michigan anti-Affirmative Action and also the California initiative by Ward Connerly were so wildly successful and popular even in very liberal states.<BR/><BR/>Along with competition for real estate by illegal immigrants, special privileges (and again, the explosive nature politically of granting illegal immigrants in-state tuition and Affirmative Action Admits is IMHO obvious) for minorities means the white working and middle class lose and the elite wins. Given the nature of spoils politics this current status quo is IMHO not sustainable.<BR/><BR/>Expressions of group interests have been successfully stigmatized as racism, but it only works so far. A large and sustained economic downturn will only intensify efforts to carve out ethnic slices of the spoils. That's the logic of ethnically based spoils politics, it only encourages other identity politics. Nationally Obama will be seen as just another Tammany Hall spoils politician, but one hostile to the majority group's interests. If he's the nominee this alone will IMHO guarantee his defeat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35062356364456426022007-05-15T13:14:00.000-07:002007-05-15T13:14:00.000-07:00One often-overlooked but major advantage of race-b...One often-overlooked but major advantage of race-based affirmative action is that it's ridiculously easy to administer. All that a college admissions office or corporate personnel department has to know is an applicant's race or ethnicity, and in the vast majority of cases that's obvious. There's no need to make the sort of value judgments and factor weighing that a socioeconomic class-based AA program would require. For instance, there's no need to determine whether an applicant raised in a middle-class single parent household is more deserving than one raised by both parents in relative poverty. While lawsuits challenging the validity of an AA program can occur whether the program is race/ethnicity-based or class-based, lawsuits challenging the specific application of the program are highly unlikely with the former type and all too predictable with the latter type.<BR/><BR/><BR/>As a result, don't expect to see universities or businesses adovating any change to the current system. They have it very easy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12380835895073960872007-05-15T12:52:00.000-07:002007-05-15T12:52:00.000-07:00The idea of Obama opposing AA,or doing anything ot...The idea of Obama opposing AA,or doing anything other than expanding it,is crazy. Who is he supposed to be appealing to with that horsehockey? I love all this crap about how Obama is going to "transcend race",it makes me think of him in an Evel Kneivel suit jumping across a canyon:"I am about to Transcend Race! Here I gooooooooooooo....." without about as much success as the real Evel!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5816399370089672612007-05-15T11:29:00.000-07:002007-05-15T11:29:00.000-07:00Quotas and sinecures. If you have to hire incompet...Quotas and sinecures. <BR/><BR/>If you have to hire incompetents, you don't put them into important jobs. You put them somewhere where they simply cannot screw up too badly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36478803395163773922007-05-15T11:20:00.000-07:002007-05-15T11:20:00.000-07:00ahhhhh Barry Goldwater.The exception that proves t...ahhhhh Barry Goldwater.<BR/>The exception that proves the rule that Politicians Are Scum. A man who had actual real principled beliefs about what was best for his constituents and was willing to fight for them at great cost personally and professionally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29248933492843542862007-05-15T10:25:00.000-07:002007-05-15T10:25:00.000-07:00Stephanopoulos: "You've been a strong supporter of...Stephanopoulos: "You've been a strong supporter of affirmative action."<BR/><BR/>Obama: "Yes."<BR/><BR/>That's all you need to know. It's the only answer that matters. The answer that comes before the fluff and spin. Everything else is him just finessing the issue, trying to look like a moderate. I'm shocked if a guy as smart as Mickey Kaus doesn't see that.<BR/><BR/>Obama has also been an avid supporter of open borders/illegal immigration/amnesty for prior. He and Mel Martinez came out at a press conference together, demanding amnesty. He voted for the worst immigration bill in American history, 2. 2611. Apparently, Obama and many others think that immigrants (or children of) have a greater moral right to comment on America's immigration policy than the descendants of the people who welcomed them here.<BR/><BR/>Politicians say lots of things that voters want to hear, large percentages of which is complete crap. It's not a bad thing that they feel the need to voice the concerns of the voters. Even if they're sincere in wanting to listen, we've seen that when the chips are down the only political issues they'll fight for are the ones they truly believe in, and every adopted issue gets dumped by the side of the road.<BR/><BR/>Obama is the smooth-talking son of a serial bigamist (not unlike the last Demo president, come to think of it - is there a pattern here?) He was raised as a Muslim by his Indonesian step-father, then decided to follow a far-left, black Christian preacher - probably when he realized that being Muslim was a handicap.<BR/><BR/>The more I learn about him, the more I hope that he is the Democratic nominee. He'll be far easier to beat than Hillary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79105991354444672152007-05-15T08:08:00.000-07:002007-05-15T08:08:00.000-07:00I really can't imagine why anyone would expect Oba...I really can't imagine why anyone would expect Obama to oppose let alone actually reduce racial AA. After all, his entire personal career and his presidential campaign is almost entirely based on racial AA. <BR/><BR/>For example, if his father had been white Kenyan rather than black Kenyan, I'd suspect that the likelihood of his being admitted to Harvard Law---let alone becoming Review president---would have been approximately zero.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, if racial AA disappeared in the near future, I'd expect that the educational and economic life-chances of his own children and those of most of his closest friends and associates would be reduced by around 95%.<BR/><BR/>Now it's certainly possible that George W. will suddenly begin a national crusade against nepotism. Or that Paris Hilton will advocate a confiscatory tax on inherited wealth. Or that Ronald Reagan hoped to eliminate the American film industry. But none of these seems very likely. So why should be expect Obama to seek to destroy the source of his own personal success in life?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33493377685388698222007-05-15T06:46:00.000-07:002007-05-15T06:46:00.000-07:00i still don't understand why mexicans get affirmat...i still don't understand why mexicans get affirmative action. also, i don't understand what is going to happen in america in 2040 when the majority of "americans" in high school are going to be eligible for affirmative action, whether it be to college or to jobs.<BR/><BR/>how do you handle a nation where the majority of people will get affirmative action for their entire lives? how much affirmative action does south africa have, and how do they handle having a majority eligible for it?<BR/><BR/>also i want to know why white and black are lower case, but Asian is capitalized. and of course "Hispanic" is not a race and should not be used that way, especially on this website. that makes me wonder how "Hispanic" is going to be handled in 2040. will anybody with a spanish name, or a single ancestor at any time with a spanish name, still be "Hispanic" in 2040? the magic of the "Hispanic transfer rule" opens all sorts of strange possibilities in a nation with interracial marriage. "Hispanic" muslims, "Hispanic" asians, "Hispanic" indians?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29334777341530043302007-05-15T05:26:00.000-07:002007-05-15T05:26:00.000-07:00As a victim of racial quotas myself (I'm in the ge...As a victim of racial quotas myself (I'm in the generational niche that got hammered by them at the beginning of my working life, 1990-1994, along with "Dilbert" creator Scott Adams), I think President Obama (and all the scary people who would ride into power on his coattails) would be a long-term disaster for Whites. I came out semi-okay, thanks to a small conservative swing away from pro-quota attitudes in business around 1994-1999 (as did Scott Adams, because he's a genius), but the dent quotas made in my life in terms of lost opportunities that I had earned is large. No crying over spilled milk, but why plan to spill more of it?<BR/><BR/>It is interesting to look into the ethnicity of the drivers of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, but perhaps this topic is verboten, here as everywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88965901870690634412007-05-15T05:06:00.000-07:002007-05-15T05:06:00.000-07:00Great points, as usual. I'd say the vast majority ...Great points, as usual. I'd say the vast majority of Americans have no clue what the "Civil Rights" act means to their everyday lives. The other side of the coin as far as employment quotas is what might be called bureaucratic due diligence. Being able to demonstrate to EEOC auditors that you routinely torture your employees via various diversity, "affirmative management", anti-harassment programs, and by using "diversity" measures as a management evaluative tool, is also important to showing good faith and avoid being sued. So you dont' necessarily need to meet, say, a 15% quota, just that you've made the effort. While perhaps not the worst thing in the world, it certainly contributes to making the jobs of millions of Americans more miserable than they need be.zielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03669293146969638930noreply@blogger.com