tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post1471716297310025648..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Guardian: "Intelligence tests highlight importance of genetic differences"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72400647726286670292011-08-11T10:19:13.231-07:002011-08-11T10:19:13.231-07:00No surprise. Human beings are immensely complex an...No surprise. Human beings are immensely complex and most of their characteristics are governed by a relatively large number of genes (i.e., there is no single IQ gene).Dutch Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687679491743923216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9431667728187462382011-08-10T18:42:46.895-07:002011-08-10T18:42:46.895-07:00Steve Hsu discusses the study here.
Kevin J. Mitc...Steve Hsu discusses the study <a href="http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2011/08/intelligence-heritable-and-polygenic.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Kevin J. Mitchell at GNXP <a href="http://www.gnxp.com/wp/2011/08/03/welcome-to-your-genome/#comment-2743" rel="nofollow">doesn't think</a> they established that IQ is polygenetic.TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12276678888166248212011-08-10T15:07:45.045-07:002011-08-10T15:07:45.045-07:00Yeah, general musical ability does exist. And peop...<i>Yeah, general musical ability does exist. And people who posses it do not, contrary to some opinions expressed here, typically have any unusual degree of ability in non-musical areas.</i><br /><br />Straw-man argument. No one is suggesting that all mental abilities correlate perfectly; many mental abilities correlate very weakly. But all mental abilities correlate POSITIVELY. So a sample of musically gifted people (or people gifted in any other cognitive domain) should average above the 50th percentile in every other mental ability. Similarly, a sample of musically retarded people should average below the 50% in every other cognitive domain. These are only averages so exceptions would be everywhere.catpersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648652809818262153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46396169159358416512011-08-10T14:44:58.338-07:002011-08-10T14:44:58.338-07:00>> "Yeah, general musical ability does ...>> "Yeah, general musical ability does exist. And people who posses it do not, contrary to some opinions expressed here, typically have any unusual degree of ability in non-musical areas. "<<<br /><br />Actually, music does correlate with other skills. The correlation is not extreme enough that a music genius is guaranteed to also be a master of physics, politics and business, but so what?<br /><br />As discussed earlier, the reason that "unusual degree of ability" in one domain is not typically accompanied by unusual ability in other areas has nothing to do with music, IQ, etc. It is a result of (you, the anon(s)) setting "unusual ability" as a performance cutoff. There are statistical selection effects that follow from that, and you happen to have noticed one of them. It tells us nothing about intelligence, music, or anything else.<br /><br />If you control for the selection effects by looking at, say, pianists only or football players only, then yes, there will still be a correlation between piano ability and ability to master other instruments (or languages), and between football success and athletic ability transferable to other sports (as well as non-athletic attributes transferable to the post-NFL career). <br /> <br /><br />>> "Or do you really want to argue that if Kurt Cobain had not gone into music, he could have become a scientist or economist or spoken eight languages or done something noteworthy in another field? "<<<br /><br />The argument is rather that he would have been more likely than Courtney Love to reach any given level of success in those fields.Ivy League Bastardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9369259989925114812011-08-10T13:15:01.634-07:002011-08-10T13:15:01.634-07:00Great pianists are not great violinists, and vice ...<i>Great pianists are not great violinists, and vice versa, but general musical ability exists.</i> <br /><br />Yeah, general musical ability does exist. And people who posses it do not, contrary to some opinions expressed here, typically have any unusual degree of ability in non-musical areas. <br /><br />Or do you really want to argue that if Kurt Cobain had not gone into music, he could have become a scientist or economist or spoken eight languages or done <i>something</i> noteworthy in another field?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91837567500873370812011-08-10T13:08:57.326-07:002011-08-10T13:08:57.326-07:00I should rely more on urban legends like you.
...<i>I should rely more on urban legends like you.</i> <br /><br /><br />It's nice that you can take time out from informing the world that "in terms of raw brain power, (Bill Gates) runs circles around Einstein" long enough to whine about "urban legends".<br /><br />No subject on the net attracts more ignorant blowhards than does discussion of IQ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79743261166032251452011-08-10T13:05:46.874-07:002011-08-10T13:05:46.874-07:00The Bill Gates / Math 55 story according to Paul A...The Bill Gates / Math 55 story according to Paul Allen:<br /><br />"I was decent in math, and Bill was brilliant, but by then I spoke from my experience at Washington State. One day I watched a professor cover the blackboard with a maze of partial differential equations, and they might as well have been hieroglyphics from the Second Dynasty. It was one of those moments when you realize, I just can’t see it. I felt a little sad, but I accepted my limitations. I was O.K. with being a generalist.<br /><br />For Bill it was different. When I saw him again over Christmas break, he seemed subdued. I asked him about his first semester, and he said glumly, “I have a math professor who got his Ph.D. at 16.” The course was purely theoretical, and the homework load ranged up to 30 hours a week. Bill put everything into it and got a B. When it came to higher mathematics, he might have been one in a hundred thousand students or better. But there were people who were one in a million or one in 10 million, and some of them wound up at Harvard. Bill would never be the smartest guy in that room, and I think that hurt his motivation. He eventually switched his major to applied math."Ivy League Bastardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43114062281903003982011-08-10T12:57:55.452-07:002011-08-10T12:57:55.452-07:00Both Gates and Einstein are reputed to have (had) ...<i>Both Gates and Einstein are reputed to have (had) an IQ of 160. You don't seem to be terribly well informed about the subjects you speak on.</i><br /><br />You're right. I should rely more on urban legends like you.catpersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648652809818262153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21588855955978424572011-08-10T12:40:51.942-07:002011-08-10T12:40:51.942-07:00>> "Neither here not there. The point i...>> "Neither here not there. The point is that most intelligent people are intelligent only in one narrow sense. And they not only are not terribly intelligent in other ways, they frequently are unusually unintelligent in other ways. " <<<br /><br />That has nothing to do with intelligence. It is reflection of two facts: that specialization exists, and that people don't often win the lottery twice. <br /><br />Great pianists are not great violinists, and vice versa, but general musical ability exists. Michael Jordan was not a great baseball player, but general athletic ability exists.<br /><br />In the same vein, beauty queens and nuclear physicists are mostly separate populations. Sad but true!Ivy League Bastardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7734945412780180522011-08-10T12:08:12.220-07:002011-08-10T12:08:12.220-07:00Bill Gates had a perfect score on his SAT. I think...Bill Gates had a perfect score on his SAT. I think it is fair to say he has both high verbal and quantitative intelligence. Limited creativity, but plenty of smarts.Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18416828215245264002011-08-10T11:26:44.014-07:002011-08-10T11:26:44.014-07:00in terms of raw brain power, he runs circles aroun...<i>in terms of raw brain power, he runs circles around Einstein.</i> <br /><br />Both Gates and Einstein are reputed to have (had) an IQ of 160. You don't seem to be terribly well informed about the subjects you speak on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90386471241401149802011-08-10T11:08:11.743-07:002011-08-10T11:08:11.743-07:00Yesterdays results published in Molecular Psychiat...Yesterdays results published in Molecular Psychiatry and PubMed add further evidence that human intelligence is highly heritable and polygenic. It's summary states, <br /><br />"Our results unequivocally confirm that a <b>substantial proportion of individual differences in human intelligence is due to genetic variation, and are consistent with many genes of small effects underlying the additive genetic influences on intelligence."</b><br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21826061<br /><br />Since more and more evidence has shown intelligence is highly heritable, astute leaders wanting to increase their nations wealth and stability should immediately put in place immigration policies to retain the capable while discouraging the feeble while separating the talented from their neighbors and competitors. <br /><br />Failure to make this effort should be considered <b>negligence.</b>Autumn Statehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17733203182777623476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45480712844677243582011-08-10T08:59:48.231-07:002011-08-10T08:59:48.231-07:00I would have to object to Bill Gates not being a g...I would have to object to Bill Gates not being a genius. He not only attended Harvard but was placed into Math 55 and received an A in the course. Math 55 is by far the most difficult undergraduate mathematics course offered. It combines courses that most math majors take such as analysis and abstract algebra in their junior/senior year and first grad school year into 2 semester freshman year course. Taking complex analysis in freshman year is extremely rare and considering the average IQ of Harvard and the rarity of the student, the students taking math 55 course probably has an IQ 4SD and over. Gates also published a paper on discrete mathematics, which was fairly noteworthy in computer science. So taking his merits both in academics and business, Gates is definitely a genius.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42518619649141284472011-08-10T05:07:56.125-07:002011-08-10T05:07:56.125-07:00On topic , this is a very interesting study, but I...On topic , this is a very interesting study, but I remember when ASPM and microcephalin were portrayed in a similar light and then went to bust.I prefer to wait and watch for more data on the specific genes among races and IQ.Pensive brahminnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45460980569889893672011-08-10T05:05:15.802-07:002011-08-10T05:05:15.802-07:00"in terms of raw brain power, he runs circles..."in terms of raw brain power, he runs circles around Einstein."<br /><br />Please explain why I should take you seriously after this comment.Pensive brahminnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-54158639425743415762011-08-10T02:54:20.361-07:002011-08-10T02:54:20.361-07:00"Bill Gates might not be a genius in the sens..."Bill Gates might not be a genius in the sense of contributing to science or the arts, but in terms of raw brain power, he runs circles around Einstein."<br /><br />W - T - F!BrokenSymmetryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00817998587641971683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50894435669207735142011-08-09T22:53:31.815-07:002011-08-09T22:53:31.815-07:00And Bill Gates is not a genius.
He might not be a...<i>And Bill Gates is not a genius.</i><br /><br />He might not be a genius in the sense of contributing to science or the arts, but in terms of raw brain power, he runs circles around Einstein.catpersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648652809818262153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82171157489438939322011-08-09T20:52:22.243-07:002011-08-09T20:52:22.243-07:00Bill Gates is not just brilliant at computers
Wa...<i>Bill Gates is not just brilliant at computers</i><br /><br /><br />Wait .... Bill Gates is brilliant at computers? I suppose Henry Ford was a fantastic auto engineer as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34967038528086435332011-08-09T20:48:20.948-07:002011-08-09T20:48:20.948-07:00Anyone who is super successful in life has to be c...<i>Anyone who is super successful in life has to be capable in multiple areas.</i> <br /><br />You're moving the goalposts. Being intelligent and being "super successful in life" are two very different things.<br /><br /><br /><i>It's very rare that you'll find someone who is a genius in one area, who is below average in most other areas.</i> <br /><br />Einstein was a socialist. Newton, who wrote more on religion than he did on science, had some very kooky beliefs indeed.<br /><br />And Bill Gates is not a genius.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8951241521018086572011-08-09T20:36:17.495-07:002011-08-09T20:36:17.495-07:00Douglas Knight,
Unlike most GWAS studies this one...Douglas Knight,<br /><br />Unlike most GWAS studies this one does not try to find an association with a single SNP and IQ. They fit a model with IQ as a function of a random effect of 599K SNPs and estimate the associated variance components. The same method was applied to SNPs and height in an earlier paper.Statsquatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17817921893921527627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70808592571290663272011-08-09T20:28:21.304-07:002011-08-09T20:28:21.304-07:00Neither here not there. The point is that most int...<i>Neither here not there. The point is that most intelligent people are intelligent only in one narrow sense.</i><br /><br />That's not true at all. Anyone who is super successful in life has to be capable in multiple areas. For example Bill Gates is not just brilliant at computers, but also gifted at recognizing business opportunities, hiring the right people etc. It's very rare that you'll find someone who is a genius in one area, who is below average in most other areas.catpersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648652809818262153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86052449808816368962011-08-09T20:21:29.764-07:002011-08-09T20:21:29.764-07:00The reason is simply that we don't live in env...<i>The reason is simply that we don't live in environments controlled by outsiders. We choose our own environments. That means that the lucky child born with good IQ genes very likely will also grow up in a house with two parents, lively conversations, an emphasis on education, etc.</i><br /><br />None of those things have any influence at all on a person's IQ by the time the reach middle age when the effects of shared environment completely vanish. g is a physiological variable that appears uninfluenced by culture, psychological experience or intellectual stimulation of any kind. <br /><br /><i>It's the same reason that athletic people like to work out and play sports, while nerdy people don't. Yes, if you forced the nerdy kid to work out and play sports, he'd get better - up to a point. But because he doesn't enjoy working out or playing sports and realizes that he'll never improve enough to compete with the naturally athletic people, he chooses to spend his time doing things and being around people that he enjoys.</i><br /><br />You've fallen for the meme that the brain is like a muscle. The brain is not like a muscle. Mental exercise does not appear to make us smarter the way physical exercise makes us stronger. Instead intelligence is more like height, influenced only by genes and nutrition. <br /><br />The only way I could see the environments we choose affecting our intelligence is if a genetically low IQ person decides to spend all his time consuming drugs and alcohol, while high IQ people abstain from substance abuse. But the effects of substance abuse probably contribute only a tiny percentage to IQ variation.catpersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648652809818262153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84552825771679219242011-08-09T15:49:14.806-07:002011-08-09T15:49:14.806-07:00If you're good at math, likely you would also ...<i>If you're good at math, likely you would also be good at foreign languages *if you put in the time to learn them.*</i> <br /><br /><br />Neither here not there. The point is that most intelligent people are intelligent only in one narrow sense. And they not only are <i>not</i> terribly intelligent in other ways, they frequently are unusually <i>unintelligent</i> in other ways. <br /><br />We call such people "liberals" in the US. They usually have college degrees, and they usually believe all sorts of preposterously stupid things which would make the supposedly non-intelligent working classes laugh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34791295443169089942011-08-09T15:45:41.258-07:002011-08-09T15:45:41.258-07:00an anon said:
>>"even if genes account...an anon said:<br /><br />>>"even if genes account for ~50% of intelligence while environment/culture accounts for the remainder, in practice, the genes will end up accounting for nearly the entire difference in intelligence and/or test scores." <<<br /><br />No. Within whatever class of statistical models was considered by the study (be it realistic or not) the non-biological but hereditary effects you're talking about are already accounted for where they write proportions like 50 percent. <br /><br />The correct argument would work the other way round. That is, having 51 percent of mental performance predictable genetically could represent 40 percent of direct genetic influence on brain function, plus 11 percent of environmental effects predictable from one's genetics (through its correlation with parents' IQ, culture, economics, etc). In addition to the 49 percent of environmental effects not predictable from one's genetics that would, in this hypothetical example, make "51 percent genetic" mean "40 percent biological and 60 percent environmental".Ivy League Bastardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21238481854863753332011-08-09T15:30:56.444-07:002011-08-09T15:30:56.444-07:00can't say that I've ever noticed this in r...<i> can't say that I've ever noticed this in real life. There are very few polymaths. Most people who are highly intelligent in one area tend to be quite stupid in other areas. Academics, for instance, are famous for this. So are musicians.</i><br /><br />If you're good at math, likely you would also be good at foreign languages *if you put in the time to learn them.* No one is saying that studying math is going to make you wake up one day speaking italian, that's just stupid.<br /><br />-osvaldo M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com