tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post2433660745830167683..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Affordable Family Formation in the U.K.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23409466638887915842013-06-04T22:02:56.980-07:002013-06-04T22:02:56.980-07:00Arrogant Englishman said:
DVN: The distinction bet...Arrogant Englishman said:<br />DVN: The distinction between English settlers and Irish immigrants is valid, but ultimately people are just people. The feelings of the two groups would not have been all that different (and given that the Irish arrived in a ready-made prosperous first-world-for-its-time nation state, and the English arrived in Deathworld, the English could be forgiven for cleaving far more closely to their roots than the Irish).<br /><br />DVN: Actually its counter intuitive. Surely the experience with immigrants wouldve opened your eyes to it!<br />It is precisely because the Irish arrived in a first world modern nation that they cleaved more closely to their country than the WASPs did.<br />Isnt that what immigrants in England are doing today?<br />The Irish Americans in their melodrama tend to exagerrate the prejudice against them. The prejudice was really religious than racial apart from a few cranks who believed Celts were unsuited for the industrial revolution because they were mystical...or something<br />And its precisely it was Deathworld ,the Puritans had to rely more heavily on their own wits and immediate community than a faraway kingdom who was mostly indifferent to their success.<br />During the American revolutionary war, the British lost against the irregulars as they were unfamiliar with the terrain.If you are talking about blood and soil nationalism.The British certainly didnt fulfill the soil criteria and seeing how todays WASPs are a minority among whites ,even the blood factor is almost moot.<br /><br />Arrogant Englishman:<br />As for the Empire - I have no affection for any of it. I broadly share your views. I don't know if you're familiar with the original meaning of the term "Little Englander", but that describes me (and many others). I don't feel guilt about the settlement of empty-ish lands per se - I am pleased that Englishmen formed viable new nations abroad, albeit sad that this enterprise was not managed without squashing the locals. But I take no pride or joy from the despoiling of India, Africa etc. I wish we could have remained a small, prosperous, isolationist northern European state as several of our neighbours were (and still are, just).<br /><br />DVN: Of course this is not begrudge the tremendous advantage of populating entire continents with your people. I will give you that many who condemn you for your Empire are simply envious that they didnt have their own. For the most part Indians are exempt from this as its ingrained in our history and culture that any invasion of a foreign country except as self defense is sinful.<br /><br /><br /><br />Arrogant Englishman:<br /><br />Ref: South Africa. I mean the Anglo-South Africans, many of whom are now back here having decided that the game is up (and having done so much to bring that unhappy conclusion about). Many of this group in fact put down such shallow roots on the Cape that they now move among us again without registering as foreign in even the smallest measure."<br /><br />DVN: Sad what happened to South African whites. They were aholes for sure but not monsters especially when you consider the horrors of the past century.<br /><br /><br />Actually the English dealt more harshly than other whites than non whites( most non whites who died in millions in famines in India or diseases in Americas died not due to malice but incompetence).<br />Not to mention the English treatment of Germans in WWI and WWII.<br />Churchill contemplated sterilizing the German populace and made a point of urinating in the Rhine<br />Boers who had humiliated English regulars were only beaten when the English coralled their women and children into a nifty little invention called "concentration camps"<br /><br />When the British ambassador met his German counterpart in the 30s to complain about the same, the grinning German produced an encyclopedia with concentration camp defined "first used by the the British against the Boers"<br /><br />Some trivia : One person who was decorated by the British for his service as a stretcher bearer in the Boer war was a young lawyer called Mohandas GandhiDr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22062656763122433372013-06-04T06:30:23.050-07:002013-06-04T06:30:23.050-07:00Nope i couldnt be happier that India isnt Christia...<br />Nope i couldnt be happier that India isnt Christian. Instead it is thriving in consequential countries like China."<br /><br />DVN: What?!<br /><br /> The only thing stinging my nostrils are the three guys currently taking a dump in the streets of Bombay. The decomposing corpses dont help either. Heres a hint champ when you have to compare your current culture to medieval european culture in order to create a positive comparison your culture needs help. <br /><br />DVN: Oh yes it does. I never said that it didnt. When did I claim that India is a paradise? LOL idiot. FYI Madurai ,Vijayanagar, Calicut for starters for considerd much cleaner than London or Paris of that era. Once again why should we grateful to the British exactly<br /><br />Heres another one if your country didnt suck i wouldnt know how bad indian food smells because youd all still be in india where you cant smell the food over the dead bodies.<br /><br />DVN: You say here is another one as if you are a delivering a zinger of Hbomb proportions when you only end up sounding more and more like a troll.<br />I know what Indian food is and what it is not.So you will pardon me if once again I laugh AT you and not with you.<br />And I wouldnt talk about corpses - your religion is based on venerating corpses.<br /><br />You know who else celebrates evicting the Portugese angola and mozembique. "<br /><br />DVN : Good for them. I reckon a semi retarded child from the interiors of Mozambique has twice your IQ(but he is still in double digits..tsk tsk)<br /><br />Make sure you build a few more atatues commenerating that feat. Ill look forward to their inevitable collapse due to shoddy construction."<br /><br />DVN: Perhaps so, as long as they fall on your head, I will overlook the corruption and sloppy work that Indians are known for just this once.Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12889234434885302382013-06-04T06:07:51.343-07:002013-06-04T06:07:51.343-07:00DVN: The distinction between English settlers and ...DVN: The distinction between English settlers and Irish immigrants is valid, but ultimately people are just people. The feelings of the two groups would not have been all that different (and given that the Irish arrived in a ready-made prosperous first-world-for-its-time nation state, and the English arrived in Deathworld, the English could be forgiven for cleaving far more closely to their roots than the Irish).<br /><br />As for the Empire - I have no affection for any of it. I broadly share your views. I don't know if you're familiar with the original meaning of the term "Little Englander", but that describes me (and many others). I don't feel guilt about the settlement of empty-ish lands per se - I am pleased that Englishmen formed viable new nations abroad, albeit sad that this enterprise was not managed without squashing the locals. But I take no pride or joy from the despoiling of India, Africa etc. I wish we could have remained a small, prosperous, isolationist northern European state as several of our neighbours were (and still are, just).<br /><br />Ref: South Africa. I mean the Anglo-South Africans, many of whom are now back here having decided that the game is up (and having done so much to bring that unhappy conclusion about). Many of this group in fact put down such shallow roots on the Cape that they now move among us again without registering as foreign in even the smallest measure.Arrogant sneering English bastard about to bayonet a fuzzy-wuzzy or shoot a jig-dancing Irishman trying to escape the Titanicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62609637166117005642013-06-03T20:35:14.110-07:002013-06-03T20:35:14.110-07:00DVN, you don't need to pretend to like English...<br />DVN, you don't need to pretend to like English people or the English nation when this is manifestly the opposite of the truth. I don't mind and I'm sure none of my compatriots do - our feelings will not be hurt and we can still discuss this or that civilly. But some honesty, please.<br /><br />DVN: Mr Arrogant officer in Mel Gibson movie-you seem to have been annoyed by comments about the British empire and called into question that England was never invaded.<br /><br />These were responses to arrogant HBD types who justified a foreign conquest of my country for my own good no doubt!<br /><br />A common refrain that comes up was Sati and this is often used to highlight British humanitarianism<br /><br />Ok, Ill bite.I will accept British rule for sake of abolishing Sati if you accept hypothetically a conquest of your country by Moorish Spain in 1300s say so they would end the dastardly practice of burning witches.<br /><br />If you think liking the British people today entails admiration for the Empire then we have a problem.<br /><br />There was enough to like about England before the Empire - Magna Carta,Chaucer,Shakespeare,Christopher Wren,Isaac Newton. All these had little to do with the empire.<br /><br />You couldve been a great country with your gifts of exploration,science and trade but you got greedy.<br /><br />You couldve dealt fairly with the native of Australia and America and expanded to mutual benefit but you didnt because you COULD overpower them and take it.<br /><br />The ports of Calcutta and Madras were initially given to you by the local despots for trade and you couldve acquired more land by purchase and barter but no you wanted it all and you took it all because you COULD.<br /><br />If you played your cards right, you could still those ports in India ,some land and heck even more islands in the Indian Ocean but you lost it all for greed.<br /><br />Imperialism is a poison because it fosters a pride that is zero sum. This pride derived from power pushes aside all other pride and when you lose power,as what happened in late 1940s-1960 you sink into despair.<br /><br />Oh sure Thatcher put some brakes on the slide down by siding with Reagan against the Soviets, prevailing over a tin pot Latin American dictatorship over a barren piece of rock(two bald men fighting over a comb) and pushing wobbly Bush 43 into the Iraq war but the slide is here to stay.<br /><br />Nasty immigrants ,welfare state, cultural decline(as elaborated by Theodore Dalrymple),decline of military prestige are all symptoms not causes.<br /><br />And just FYI ,forget about Muslims they are beyond hope, if Hindu and Sikh Brits support India at England vs India cricket matches yes I think they should hightail it back to their homelands if they cant cheer for the hometeam.Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68873640669020648542013-06-03T20:34:57.516-07:002013-06-03T20:34:57.516-07:00As an Englishman, I fully regard "my" an...As an Englishman, I fully regard "my" and "our" history as encompassing pre-England Britain and pre-Britain England. <br /><br /><br />DVN: Love your handle BTW!<br /><br />How would you as an Anglo Saxon claim heritages that are not yours?<br />I ask this sincerely what cultural aspects did Anglos borrow from the Neolithic Iberian settlers or the Romanized Britons? <br />I am always puzzled that the English claim King Arthur,a half Briton Roman aristocrat who fought the Saxons, as one of their own.<br /><br />"I find it hard to imagine not doing so. Why therefore shouldn't an Anglo-American regard his history as reaching back across the Atlantic? Irish-Americans certainly do. Virginia Dare was born five lifetimes ago only. Less than three lifetimes ago the colonists were seeking only to assert their rights as Englishmen, not to renounce their heritage and form a new nation without roots or memories.<br /><br />DVN: The people land on Plymouth as seperatists but opportunistically decided to stay loyal to the Crown for protection.<br />When you form a new nation ,you do form a new nation with your roots and this decideds you sever a great deal of roots and memories of the old nation.<br />Otherwise the new nation would be no better than those Replicants in Blade Runner, running around with other peoples memories in their head!<br />Irish Americans cannot be compared to the seperatists.<br />The Irish were immigrants while the seperatists were settlers.<br />It was economic rather than ideology that compelled the Irish to move to America.<br />Therefore it is not inappropriate for them to have ties to their mother country.<br /><br />"As Simon and others have said, Anglo-Americans, South Africans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders will never be fully foreign to English people. I sense this is a source of no little irritation to at least one poster on this thread, but it is a fact. Why would you expect it to be otherwise?"<br /><br />DVN: Canadians,Australians,NZ,Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands,Gibraltar,Barbados,Bahamas et al are fine and expected as they recognize the crown as their sovereign.<br />But America and South Africa? Not so much.<br />Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-85022844115832850352013-06-03T20:05:00.290-07:002013-06-03T20:05:00.290-07:00?!?!
Um, is this bizarro-England you're talk...<br />?!?! <br /><br />Um, is this bizarro-England you're talking about?! Pro-Palestinism is confined to the elites and the Far Left. The average Englishman thinks warmly* of Israel, and loathes Arabs.<br /><br />DVN: Oh cmon! I am talking not so much of the appreciation of those joyless fundies imported from Pakistan but more of the picturesque sheikhs and Bedouins from Araby<br />The East coast WASPs inherited this Arabophilia from you and established American University of Cairo and Beirut.<br />Arabs learnt to articulate much of fierce anti Zionism from British and American professors,no they werent considered "left" at the time but very much establishment aristocrats<br /><br />Yes Christian Zionism was invented in Britain.But like so many things invented in Britain such as soccer and cricket ,foreigners do it better these days<br /><br /><br />*OK, not as much as Americans. But vastly more than most Europeans.<br /><br />6/3/13, 2:32 PM<br /> Simon in London said...<br />DVN:<br />"And that was a different Britain that resisted(and failed) the invasion of William of Orange from the Netherlands."<br /><br />Yes, we fought bravely, but after he put an arrow in our Bonnie Prince Charlie's eye, we had to give up.<br /><br />DVN:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England<br /><br /><br />Actually was speaking of this guy.<br /><br />To be fair, he was sort of invited by English protestants.Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89714671518404456032013-06-03T14:38:59.232-07:002013-06-03T14:38:59.232-07:00DVN:
"And that was a different Britain that r...DVN:<br />"And that was a different Britain that resisted(and failed) the invasion of William of Orange from the Netherlands."<br /><br />Yes, we fought bravely, but after he put an arrow in our Bonnie Prince Charlie's eye, we had to give up.<br /><br />(Maybe you're thinking of a different William?)Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59555598408077569312013-06-03T14:32:40.612-07:002013-06-03T14:32:40.612-07:00DVN:"Yes the average English guy is very pro ...DVN:"Yes the average English guy is very pro Palestinian but its much more than that. They are Arabists and have a serious hard on for the Middle East."<br /><br />?!?! <br /><br />Um, is this bizarro-England you're talking about?! Pro-Palestinism is confined to the elites and the Far Left. The average Englishman thinks warmly* of Israel, and loathes Arabs.<br /><br />*OK, not as much as Americans. But vastly more than most Europeans.Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34660955348393887872013-06-03T06:03:25.845-07:002013-06-03T06:03:25.845-07:00As an Englishman, I fully regard "my" an...As an Englishman, I fully regard "my" and "our" history as encompassing pre-England Britain and pre-Britain England. I find it hard to imagine not doing so. Why therefore shouldn't an Anglo-American regard his history as reaching back across the Atlantic? Irish-Americans certainly do. Virginia Dare was born five lifetimes ago only. Less than three lifetimes ago the colonists were seeking only to assert their rights as Englishmen, not to renounce their heritage and form a new nation without roots or memories.<br /><br />As Simon and others have said, Anglo-Americans, South Africans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders will never be fully foreign to English people. I sense this is a source of no little irritation to at least one poster on this thread, but it is a fact. Why would you expect it to be otherwise?<br /><br />DVN, you don't need to pretend to like English people or the English nation when this is manifestly the opposite of the truth. I don't mind and I'm sure none of my compatriots do - our feelings will not be hurt and we can still discuss this or that civilly. But some honesty, please.Snobby Elitist English Office Chap in a Mel Gibson filmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36386091371635058482013-06-03T02:48:06.648-07:002013-06-03T02:48:06.648-07:00I don't. You've just worked yourself into ...<br />I don't. You've just worked yourself into such a state over the thought of the natural sense of affiliation that ordinary Englishmen and most white Americans commonly share, that it's impaired your reading comprehension.<br /><br />So is it the white Americans or the Englishmen you're crushing on here, DVN? Because you sure do seem to be throwing a big silly gay jealous fit over this undeniable historical/genetic/cultural connection. ("Oh, girlfriend, you need to just get over John Bull, I heard him say the most terrible things about you!...)"<br /><br />DVN: Hahaha! Actually no. I like Americans and English people as well on a small scale(personal relations) and large scale(relations between India and the Anglosphere)<br /><br />But yes I prefer Americans more.<br />Rather than the jealous girlriend I think a more apt analogy would be the battered wife syndrome(it depends on who you ask ,patriotic British will claim it is they who are abused while Americans will claim emotional abuse)<br /><br />Of course there are "undeniable historical/genetic/cultural connection"( I notice you didnt address my point about Thomas Paines observation on genetic links).<br /><br />You know who else has "undeniable historical/genetic/cultural connections?"<br /><br />England ,France and Germany<br /><br />India and Pakistan<br />India and Sri Lanka<br />Iraq and Iran<br />Japan and China<br /><br />you see where I am going with this?<br /><br />You are a new country and a powerful one.<br />But you seem to suffer an inferiority complex due to a lack of a long history and wish to latch on to the motherland's old world appeal and heritage.That is understandable. Understandable but dangerous.<br />National self confidence and cultural integrities are destroyed this way.<br /><br />You taking solace in England's long history is absurd as the English taking pride in proto Saxons of Germany defeating the Romans under Augustus.<br /><br />Create your own history and leave them behind. Even if they are pleasant people.<br /><br />If you choose to pursue this anglophilia you will remain a cultural banana republic.<br /><br /><br />Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32149747705425766512013-06-03T00:30:43.273-07:002013-06-03T00:30:43.273-07:00Nope i couldnt be happier that India isnt Christia...Nope i couldnt be happier that India isnt Christian. Instead it is thriving in consequential countries like China. The only thing stinging my nostrils are the three guys currently taking a dump in the streets of Bombay. The decomposing corpses dont help either. Heres a hint champ when you have to compare your current culture to medieval european culture in order to create a positive comparison your culture needs help. Heres another one if your country didnt suck i wouldnt know how bad indian food smells because youd all still be in india where you cant smell the food over the dead bodies.<br /><br />You know who else celebrates evicting the Portugese angola and mozembique. Make sure you build a few more atatues commenerating that feat. Ill look forward to their inevitable collapse due to shoddy construction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40523303996507155642013-06-02T23:32:42.739-07:002013-06-02T23:32:42.739-07:00But Indra Ghandi made Nixon wait that one time, be...But Indra Ghandi made Nixon wait that one time, because her plane was having mechanical problems one imagines, so I guess you have that going for you"<br /><br />Actually what we do have is her dad humiliating the Portuguese.<br /><br />And preventing Islamic and Chritian imperialism is unmatched in world hisotry.<br /><br />And THAT is what aggravates you, it stings you that we not only did not accept your childish theology of the Trinity but we defeated them ideologically and we are taking that battle to your turf if the crisis of faith and the increasing trend of cremation is any indication.<br /><br />Honestly I cant think of a more disgusting concept than that of bodily resurrection. WTF? <br /><br />Cremation is the way to go. Greeks,Romans and Vikings concur .I bring these up as obviously opinion of white people is more valid than any other!Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48015237587658753132013-06-02T23:26:50.913-07:002013-06-02T23:26:50.913-07:00Hunsdon said...
DVN: The line about British not be...Hunsdon said...<br />DVN: The line about British not being able to cook curry was sarcasm.<br /><br /><br />I know Mr Hunsdon. But most American posters here, who unlike the Brtish, are unfamiliar with Indian food and how ubiquitous it is in England. So I thought I would throw in that info.Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50000809847004844862013-06-02T23:19:01.826-07:002013-06-02T23:19:01.826-07:00Yea I think maybe you aren't the best ethnicit...<br />Yea I think maybe you aren't the best ethnicity to be judging which nation's right is the most civilized. Nothing in India is civilized so exactly how would you even know what to look for."<br /><br />DVN: You will forgive me but Im not really interested in the opinion of ignorant twats like yourself when it comes to matters of culture and civilization. <br /><br />The Catholic church actively opposed fascism in Germany and tacitly supported it in Italy so I guess that counts as neutral.<br /><br />DVN: hahahahahahaha. The Catholic church "actively opposed" fascism. Seriously anon dude, you are a joke a minute. I see your historical knowledge remains as pathetic as before.<br /><br /> I know that the Catholic Church is a sore spot in India. All those dead Dalit corpses upper castes weren't able to step gleefully over. <br /><br />DVN: Hey you know who else has sore spots. All those patients in hospitals set by Mother Theresa. She has recieved 100s of millions of $ over the years many of them from despots such as Haitian presidents but she had spent exactly zero on treating patients but simply transferred the monies to the already overflowing treasure chests of the Vatican.<br />I guess the Pope does need a new hat. And the Pope mobile doesnt run on holy water!<br />I guess I should be more understanding.<br /><br /><br />The thing is for such a uncivilized nation you guys aren't exactly over-flowing with barbarian vigor either. Maybe its hook worm who knows.<br /><br />DVN: Shall we get into all the diseased that plagued Europeans well into the Industrial era?<br />You make one false assertion that we are uncivilized and then follow up that we are barbarians but as barbarians we are lacking in vigor.<br /><br />I think dissecting the stupidity,contradictions and obtuseness in that short statement may take up a book but congratulations you are the verbal equivalent of a garbage compactor.<br /><br /> How long has that Communist insurrection been raging. But Indra Ghandi made Nixon wait that one time, because her plane was having mechanical problems one imagines, so I guess you have that going for you.<br /><br />DVN: Look if you have to be snarky atleast give yourself something to work with. The above is pretty weak.Oh did I laugh at it but not WITH you.<br />And genius , it was not Nixon but Kissinger.<br />The communist insurrection is given strong political and ideological cover by Anglicized elites who studied at Oxford,Cambridge and Harvard.<br />They seem to love them there , well I say if you love them so much ,lets let them loose in those environs,what you say.<br />I lived in India for a quite a while and havent been bothered by Naxal violence in the least.<br />It bothers us much less than IRA bothered the English.<br /><br /><br /><br />6/2/13, 3:24 PMDr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51432543678973781962013-06-02T22:35:58.662-07:002013-06-02T22:35:58.662-07:00The difference of course is that England actually ...<br />The difference of course is that England actually fought off its invaders.<br /><br />DVN:Alright I would appreciate you not speak on matters of which you have very little knowledge as I will prove below.<br /><br /> The irony dies when you actually let your country get conquered by people from 1000s of miles away.<br /><br />DVN: What irony? Whos being ironic?<br />To paraphrase madam Clinton what difference does it make where the barbarians invaded you from ?<br />Just FYI, Britain was first populated by Iberian settlers.<br /><br /><br /> No Englishman, or Frenchman, or Portugese, or Mughal, or you get the picture (did I mention Denmark) asked to be allowed to emigrate to India.Nor did India allow them to. You Indians "tried" to resist and largely because your caste and ethnic divisions openly call into question which group India belongs to.<br /><br />DVN: Hello genius. The talk was of invasions in the case of England as well!<br />And the "Britain" that resisted(and failed resisting) the Saxons was a very different one from the Britain that resisted(and failed) resisting the Danes.And that was a different "Britain" that resisted(and failed) resisting the Normans.<br /><br />And that was a different Britain that resisted(and failed) the invasion of William of Orange from the Netherlands.<br /><br />You missed being a colony of Spain only due to bad weather.<br /><br /> Why on earth would a lower caste India fight for India when the Westerners show up treat him better than his fellow "Indians."<br /><br />DVN: Why on earth indeed? Why on earth did lower castes at the forefront at fighting the Muslims and later the British?<br />British coopted certain sections of lower castes and made the great bulk of lower caste far worse off by introducing large holdings to pay off collaborators and introducing bonded labor on an unprecedented scale.<br />Read the reports of Greek and Chinese travellers in India and they will tell you that serfdom and slavery was practically unheard of.<br /><br />So you will forgive me if I dont go head over heels in admiration of English egalitarianism.<br /><br />Furthermore your ridiculous assertions that Indians didnt resist is bogus. The fact that India is predominantly Hindu is circumstantial evidence enough that we resisted.<br />Islam which conquered southern Europe and the entire Middle East in less than 2 centuries took nearly 1 millenia to complete their conquest of India.<br />And as soon as they had completed it they were compelled to retreat due to Hindu Maratha resurgence.<br /><br />The Dutch were conclusively defeated by Marthanda Varma of Kerala in 1789.They never set foot in India again.<br /><br />The Portuguese were given a thorough beatings by various kings of Kerala and the Marathas and restricted themselves to Goa and one island no Indian had idea existed.<br />In 1960,the Indian army invaded Goa and made short of the Portuguese army. <br />The howls from England over how unfair that fight was deafening but also hilarious.<br /><br />The English and French companies(or tried in their case) acquired India not just by force of arms but also fraud,bribery ,treachery and deciet. Thoroughly dishonorable tacts and methods but go ahead and pat yourself on the back for it and oh while your at it dismiss the 15 million dead Indians in engineered famine during the British Raj as cant make an omellete and all that old boy. Why, how else will us heathen savage learn the glories and benefits of English humanitarianism?<br /><br />pip pip cheerio and all that you fatuous git<br />Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8516351480784700052013-06-02T20:32:13.137-07:002013-06-02T20:32:13.137-07:00DVN: Are they your cousins or brothers or your mo...DVN: <i>Are they your cousins or brothers or your mother?Talk about loopy metaphors!</i><br /><br />All three work just fine in their given contexts. Are we going to have to send you into the sperg corner today too? <br /><br /><i>What makes you think I think this board is populated with neocons.</i><br /><br />I don't. You've just worked yourself into such a state over the thought of the natural sense of affiliation that ordinary Englishmen and most white Americans commonly share, that it's impaired your reading comprehension.<br /><br />So is it the white Americans or the Englishmen you're crushing on here, DVN? Because you sure do seem to be throwing a big silly gay jealous fit over this undeniable historical/genetic/cultural connection. ("Oh, girlfriend, you need to just get <i>over</i> John Bull, I heard him say the most <i>terrible</i> things about you!...)<br /><br /><i>Ascribing obtuseness to your adversary is always a bad move.</i><br /><br />No kidding.Rohan Sweenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12176084011190247652013-06-02T15:34:14.903-07:002013-06-02T15:34:14.903-07:00The difference of course is that England actually ...The difference of course is that England actually fought off its invaders. The irony dies when you actually let your country get conquered by people from 1000s of miles away. No Englishman, or Frenchman, or Portugese, or Mughal, or you get the picture (did I mention Denmark) asked to be allowed to emigrate to India. Nor did India allow them to. You Indians "tried" to resist and largely because your caste and ethnic divisions openly call into question which group India belongs to. Why on earth would a lower caste India fight for India when the Westerners show up treat him better than his fellow "Indians."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26376223397612402972013-06-02T15:24:23.553-07:002013-06-02T15:24:23.553-07:00Yea I think maybe you aren't the best ethnicit...Yea I think maybe you aren't the best ethnicity to be judging which nation's right is the most civilized. Nothing in India is civilized so exactly how would you even know what to look for. <br /><br />The Catholic church actively opposed fascism in Germany and tacitly supported it in Italy so I guess that counts as neutral. I know that the Catholic Church is a sore spot in India. All those dead Dalit corpses upper castes weren't able to step gleefully over. <br /><br />The thing is for such a uncivilized nation you guys aren't exactly over-flowing with barbarian vigor either. Maybe its hook worm who knows. How long has that Communist insurrection been raging. But Indra Ghandi made Nixon wait that one time, because her plane was having mechanical problems one imagines, so I guess you have that going for you. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88864629972394803722013-06-02T13:44:57.196-07:002013-06-02T13:44:57.196-07:00DVN: The line about British not being able to coo...DVN: The line about British not being able to cook curry was sarcasm.Hunsdonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55028883139317557992013-06-02T12:40:21.624-07:002013-06-02T12:40:21.624-07:00I'll take your word that your wife said this, ...<i>I'll take your word that your wife said this, but I won't give much credence to her judgment.<br /><br />http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/10/timss-nclb-minnesota-oped-cx_dr_1211ravitch.html<br /><br />"While the U.S. continues to rank well below the top-performing nations, Minnesota now ranks fifth in the world, behind only Hong Kong, Singapore, Chinese Taipei and Japan. While U.S. fourth-graders saw a gain of 11 points, Minnesota's students had a gain of 38 points."</i><br /><br />If you adjust for participation rates, the strongest Math states in the US, in this order are:<br /><br />Massachusetts, Illinois, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Minnesota, North Dakota, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc.<br /><br />Minnesota isn't quite as good as the Jew heavy Northeastern states (which tend to dip a lot in the unadjusted rankings due to their very high participation rates), but still is pretty good.<br /><br />(There's about a standard deviation in distance in the adjusted rates between Massachusetts and West Virginia [the weakest performing state, below District of Columbia when adjusted), with Massachusetts about half an SD above the US average and WV about half an SD below.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62829760970911783842013-06-02T12:16:38.201-07:002013-06-02T12:16:38.201-07:00The worst place in Europe for ethno-nationalist pa...The worst place in Europe for ethno-nationalist parties in Europe are Spain Portugal and Ireland, closely followed by Germany."<br /><br />All these countries were ruled by either fascists ,Nazi sympathizers or in the case of Germany....<br /><br />Also they are predominantly Catholic- the Church was not exactly neutral on the whole fascism issue.<br /><br /><br />England being the most civilized of the lot,their right wingers are given more benefit of doubt.<br /><br />For discussion of the right in France-the other on Marie Le PenDr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47208230733743710832013-06-02T12:11:12.441-07:002013-06-02T12:11:12.441-07:00The second comment from Anonymous nails it. The re...<br />The second comment from Anonymous nails it. The real comparison for America can only be Canada, Australia and NZ. And in all those countries you see open borders enthusiasm."<br /><br /><br />DVN: I can somewhat understand Canada,Australia and U.S. I mean geography does make a difference. These are among the top ten largest countries. But NZ?!<br /><br />Keep in mind, those three countries are actually far more conservative in their founding history than the radical whiggery that created the USA. Plus they maintained their allegiance to the British Crown, and by extension to British ethnicity, for all these centuries. I'd say even India has more Britishness in its national character than America.<br /><br />DVN: I remember meeting many WASP types from Mass and Conn who liked me a great deal since I knew a lot about Wodehouse ,British history and played squash unlike the majority of Americans.<br />They were somewhat disappointed that I loathed cricket though<br /><br />The USA really is unique in its absolute repudiation of ethnicity and blood-and-soil nationalism. Which is why the American rightwing is this weird collection of idiots, libertarians and capitalists. Not a single respectable rightwinger who can compare with the Le Pens, or Netanyahu, or even Putin."<br /><br />DVN: I like the American right wing personally though I agree they should pay some more attention (not too much) to white HBDs<br />U.S may not have a strict blood ans soil nationalism as in the old country but they do have "real"Americans as in the descendents of the four branches of Albion.<br />They are a minority today but their culture still predominates.<br /><br />You will never have strong anti-immigration sentiment here. You can fight it all you want but it is inside you, written in your country's DNA... you can keep scrubbing at that foul spot all you want but it will never leave.<br /><br />DVN: The Statue of Liberty/Emma Lazarus myth is a recent narrative.Before that and even after anti immigrant especially anti Catholic sentiment was very strong.<br />And statue of liberty actually had nothing to do with immigration but the liberation of slaves hence "liberty" .At the base of the statue are broken schackles which can only be seen from air.<br /><br />It is quite interesting though that the ethnonationalist rightwing is weakest in the UK among European countries. It is almost as though the country which was most successful in exporting itself across the world over the last few centuries was suffering from its overexertion. Maybe identification with the empire and the Anglosphere weakens identification with the local. <br /><br />DVN: Invade the world ,invite the world. That and Empire guilt on steroids.<br />I think the most hardy died off in WWII and Britain may have won the war but surrendered something more precious for peace..<br /><br />Maybe universalism is a good strategy to propagate your culture for some time(white man's burden, bringing democracy to Iraq, expecting other societies to adhere to your conception of human rights etc etc), but also contains the seeds of its own destruction in that it makes you lose your self-identity. So global relativism combined with national particularism may be the best long-term pro-rightwing strategy.<br /><br /><br />DVN: Universalism done right ala Greeks and Romans did work to a large degree. <br />The British Empire while strived to be fair and just fell apart due to its greed and hypocrisy by making a mockery of its high standards.Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-76060990514106981732013-06-02T12:06:05.850-07:002013-06-02T12:06:05.850-07:00Rohan Swee:
"At any rate, I may be a son-of-a...Rohan Swee:<br />"At any rate, I may be a son-of-a-bitch American to some Englishmen, but, for all that, and after two centuries separation, I'm still not seen as a son-of-a-bitch Johnny Foreigner."<br /><br />Yes - Brits often resent American power and its misuse, but cannot conceive of any Anglospherians as 'foreign'. When my American wife first moved here, several times she met Brits who were gobsmacked that the immigration authorities' official rules treat Americans worse than third-world Commonwealth citizens, mostly south-Asians. Of course rules and actual practice are not always the same thing. In her case the BUNAC (British Universities North America Canada) scheme, nominally designed for six-month postgraduate jaunts, made moving here very easy. Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35043641988914942672013-06-02T11:59:31.429-07:002013-06-02T11:59:31.429-07:00DVN:Are they your cousins or brothers or your moth...<br />DVN:Are they your cousins or brothers or your mother?Talk about loopy metaphors!<br />I met English Tory guys who were pro American for sure but even they thought the U.S was too religious/gun happy/patriotic yahoos - Basically boilerplate Democratic party talking points<br /><br />RS:Sane Englishmen rightly resent the pernicious effects of American power and cretinous foreign policy - something sane Englishmen share with sane Americans. (They also complain, like everybody else, about the messianic export of a more and more degraded political and social "culture", but they've lapped up its worst aspects so enthusiastically that can no longer really point fingers here.)<br /><br />DVN: You must be joking. British popular culture is far more crass and revolting than the American counterpart.Indeed most noxious American trends such as reality TV shows have their origins in Britain.<br />You shouldnt really be bothered by the opinions of those who gave the world the British Empire and yes it was a NET negative.<br /><br />RS:At any rate, I may be a son-of-a-bitch American to some Englishmen, but, for all that, and after two centuries separation, I'm still not seen as a son-of-a-bitch Johnny Foreigner.<br /><br />DVN: Silly boy. They only wish to live vicariously off you no matter how much they despise you for your power which they used to have!Now look at them-the Portugal of Northern Europe! You are still a crass Yank to them. You were once somewhat the same people but two major wars(including one where they burned down your capital) can change a lot of things.<br />If you are thrilled about England not being on board for U.S support for Israel, knock yourself out.<br />Yes the average English guy is very pro Palestinian but its much more than that. They are Arabists and have a serious hard on for the Middle East.<br />One could be forgiven in thinking that they dont mind the moniker Londonistan.<br />This is what happens when Anglican church turns into what it is now.<br /><br />RS:From what I see, if my cousins do something good, I say: "that is the legacy of the Swee blood, drive and culture"<br />If they do something bad- "stupid cousins,they have wrecked what our parents and grandparents bequeathed them!"<br /><br />RS:Hope that FTFY clarifies things. (It shouldn't be news to a regular that a lot of the white Americans around here don't exactly share the neo-con sui generis view of America.)<br /><br />DVN: What makes you think I think this board is populated with neocons. Ascribing obtuseness to your adversary is always a bad move.<br /><br />Neocons have got you to what Iraq,Afghanistan tops? Both monstrous entities created by the British BTW<br /><br />Anglophilia led you to WWI,WWII. Churchill wanted FDR to invade Russia.<br />And there was that little matter of Tony Blair pushing Clinton into Kosovo and Margaret Thatcher warning Bush 41 to not "go wobbly" on Saddam.<br /><br />Creating ANOTHER Muslim republic into Balkan Europe.Wise move that. This was a strong catalyst in the rise of Putin.<br /><br />Now who cost you more blood and treasure for wars in which you had little part- those blasted neocons(who are still Americans btw) or your blood cousins who love you so so very much?Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8037897901592160302013-06-02T11:59:03.502-07:002013-06-02T11:59:03.502-07:00DVN: I never understood this grovelling Anglophili...DVN: I never understood this grovelling Anglophilia among white American HBD types.If you think that it is better than Judeophilia then you are welcome to it.<br />Ideally the only "philia" should be for your country.<br /><br />RS:That's a real puzzler there, DVN. Why do so many white Americans with HBD sympathies feel some affinity for the mother-nation of Anglo-Saxondom? It's almost as if we had some sort of genetic/historical/cultural relation to them.<br /><br />DVN: I would say its because white HBDers are a very silly people and dont prefer to ask themselves uncomfortable questions like why didnt Australia,Canada and New Zealand didnt choose to secede<br /><br />RN:I don't understand what you don't understand.<br /><br />DVN: Thomas Paine addressed this type of silliness when responding to proto HBDers among the English crown insisted that it was unnatural to Americans who were mostly of English blood to seperate from the mother country. Paine brought up Normans and enquired why England was no longer beholden to France and Germany?<br />It is one thing to acknowledge your roots, its another to view them through bizarre rose colored lenses.<br /><br /><br />RS:Hadn't noticed any "groveling", though.<br /><br />DVN: Then you are not paying attention. What you white paleos and neocons have in common in the glorification of the British empire. Now I understand time may put a lot of things in a better light but c'mon. Most Americans of that era were dead set against the Empire, especially its conduct in India(5 million dead in engineering famines in 1940s).<br />Neocons happily invoke the Empire as a justication for their misadventures abroad and your lot provides them with moral cover with your Anglophilia. And lets not kid ourselves: white HBD anglophilia does justify the Empire.<br /><br /><br />RS:However most English have only resentment and contempt for Americans.<br /><br />Haven't seen this in my personal interactions. On a more global level, one can resent the hell out of the behavior of one's cousins, but they're still one's cousins (whatever the knee-jerk anti-Americanism and the ignorance of the U.S. of the Guardianista classes). <br />Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.com