tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post2733802664094361996..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Tom Wolfe's "Back to Blood"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10151753108009365942010-08-19T10:40:19.611-07:002010-08-19T10:40:19.611-07:00One of the main themes of The Sopranos was Tony...One of the main themes of <i>The Sopranos</i> was Tony's angst over the possibility of his "putrid" bloodline.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79409213209496925842010-08-19T10:39:06.267-07:002010-08-19T10:39:06.267-07:00Oh, and Battlestar Galactica had the same thing.Oh, and <i>Battlestar Galactica</i> had the same thing.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69650050961736608152010-08-19T10:37:48.806-07:002010-08-19T10:37:48.806-07:00I am surprised that there are so few hereditarian ...<i>I am surprised that there are so few hereditarian themed books/movies these days.</i><br /><br /><i>4400</i> had the mulatto messiah thing going on, or maybe the mulatto anti-Christ thing.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70298733433732525472010-08-18T21:05:40.050-07:002010-08-18T21:05:40.050-07:00Naipaul is my favourite Nihilist/conservative lean...Naipaul is my favourite Nihilist/conservative leaning author:<br />Independet:V S Naipaul: Scourge of the liberals<br />"Subsequently, all his books of reportage have been shot through with varying degrees of disdain for the locals (except perhaps A Turn in the South: he rather liked the good ol' white boys of the American Deep South, which was not what The New Yoker wanted)."<br />http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/v-s-naipaul-scourge-of-the-liberals-664440.htmlPaavohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04624742837896581547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44365294497395232012010-08-18T20:18:44.923-07:002010-08-18T20:18:44.923-07:00Josh - "Didnt Wolfe wimp out by making the pr...Josh - "Didnt Wolfe wimp out by making the protaganist a whitey,with the main Jewish character being the sympathetic DA dude?"<br /><br />The jewish DA was a pretty unsympathetic character, as was Sherman McCoy himself. As I recall, the presiding judge, who was jewish, was a fairly sympathetic character in the novel.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67043654280898347952010-08-17T14:35:53.626-07:002010-08-17T14:35:53.626-07:00"I'm assuming that Wolfe quotation is sat..."I'm assuming that Wolfe quotation is satire."<br /><br />I'm assuming it's something the character he's portraying would regard as true. Wolfe is a realist fiction writer, and his characters are people you'd see out in the world. Which is why his writing keeps on being echoed in the real world.<br /><br />The book will be a must-read. No critic can ignore a new Wolfe novel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15976800858381461272010-08-17T09:40:57.533-07:002010-08-17T09:40:57.533-07:00I think islam was originally a copy of judaism i.e...I think islam was originally a copy of judaism i.e an ethnic nationalism wrapped up in a special religious status with the arabs replacing jews as the special ones.<br /><br />That changed by force of circumstance after islam spread so far away from its original ethnic source but there's still an under current of ethnic one-upmanship with actual arabs first, middle-easterners who call themselves arabs second and non-arabs third - with Iranians as a separate category on their own as at heart they don't really accept arab primacy.<br /><br />So i don't think it's accurate to see islam as arab religion-backed nationalism now but i think it was once and there's an element of it that still exists as an under current.<br /><br />Playing on the the arab vs other muslims fault-line is a tactic western intelligence agencies can use.Wandrinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75826894155059890002010-08-16T19:55:53.559-07:002010-08-16T19:55:53.559-07:00"Arab interests are also placed very high on ..."Arab interests are also placed very high on their list of grievances such as the non-Muslim presence in Saudi Arabia, the sanctions in Iraq, and Palestinian human rights. They do not spend as much time complaining about Bosnia, Chechnya, or Uyghur human rights. Surely, the situation in Chechnya is far worse than the situation in Saudi Arabia!"<br /><br />I agree with most of your post, but I think this is a bit off-base. It may be damn near impossible to separate ethnic interests from religious interests when it comes to Saudi Arabia and Palestine. Are Arabs offended by a Christian or Jewish presence in those places because it offends them as nationalists to have non-Arabs in their lands, or because it offends them as Muslims to have non-Muslims in what they consider to be Islamic holy places? Probably both, but I tend to think that the ferocity of the reaction against US bases in Saudi Arabia is better explained by religious objections than simple nationalism or ethnic chauvanism.<br /><br />Also, while I'm guessing you're right that more Arabs want to fight for other Arabs than want to fight for other ethnic groups, I'm not sure how important that is. How many Europeans want to fight for non-Europeans, Asians for non-Asians, etc.? What's interesting is the number of Islamist Arabs who HAVE gone out of their way to fight on the side of their co-religionists in places like Chechnya and Afghanistan, places that have no conceivable connection to any kind of Arab nationalism except the Islam-as-proxy-for-Arab-nationalism you described in your post. It seems to me that, while nationalism is important, religion is the key factor that decides the goals of groups like al Qaeda and inspires their members to be so murderous (and suicidal).<br /><br />"The argument these Arabs make against today's Arab leaders is not that they are insufficiently Islamic because they are too focused on nationalism but rather that they are insufficiently Islamic because they have close relations with the West. Secular Arab nationalism is sad joke in the Arab Muslim world today."<br /><br />True. This may be where I could meet Wolfe's argument halfway. Clearly Arab nationalism failed dismally as a response to the pressures of European ideologies like capitalism, Marxism, and nationalism (not Arab nationalism, but European and American nationalists dominating the Arab world in pursuit of their own national interest). If Arab men were looking for something to be proud of, and for a set of recognizably Arab and non-western principles by which to live and from which to gain the strength to beat back foreign influence, Islamism was and is a much more appealing option than secular nationalism.<br /><br />But here's where I'd disagree with Wolfe (or, at least, with the argument he has his character spouting): If what I've just said is in any way a valid explanation for the rise of violent Islamism, then stronger and more credible Arab nationalism might REDUCE Islamist violence by providing an alternative that's at least open to the possibility of compromise with non-Muslim peoples.<br /><br />I guess Wolfe could argue that Arab nationalism finds its inevitable expression in a horrendously violent interpretation of Islam, but I don't see any reason why that would be true. Pointing to jihadism and saying, "Aha! Arab nationalism!" would be like "explaining" 19th century British imperialism by saying "Back to blood! English nationalism!" Kind of, I guess, but you're not explaining anything by saying that--you're just singling out one aspect of an enormously complex phenomenon and pretending that it's the only one that matters. I think more, rather than less, nuance is needed in the discussion of how to respond to Islamist terrorism. So I get frustrated by over-simplifications even when they're produced by Tom Wolfe, the master of the amusing broad stroke.<br /><br />Anyway, that's more than enough out of me. Thanks for the exchange, I learned a lot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46888695677387108412010-08-16T19:00:01.778-07:002010-08-16T19:00:01.778-07:00Tom Wolfe goes too much over the top for his stuff...Tom Wolfe goes too much over the top for his stuff to really be best. I mean I like him and all. He gets cool insights. Best thing from him was his anthology The New Journalism about intersting nonfiction writing.<br /><br />Steve Sailer: Why have you never mentioned Selleck's An Innnocent Man? It's a lot like Wolfe's prison scene in A Man in FullAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55108547142887530112010-08-16T18:53:52.218-07:002010-08-16T18:53:52.218-07:00You can add Back to the Future to the list. Genera...You can add Back to the Future to the list. Generations there repeating both good and bad characteristics.<br />The Godfather? Maybe, but it's not clear if Michael becomes his dad for social reasons or not.<br />Didn't see the Last Air Bender, but the commercials gave the impression that some kind of heritage made the kid special. Stamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86389167670971671052010-08-16T00:34:05.561-07:002010-08-16T00:34:05.561-07:00"'I am your father.' Nature over nurt..."'I am your father.' Nature over nurture was the case for both Skywalkers who were the best Jedis despite missing out on extensive training."<br /><br />Nature beats out nurture when it comes to raw power, but there's also the theme of free will. Vader chooses to use his power for evil but Luke chooses to continue using his power for good.<br /><br />"It seems to me that there is a cliche orphan or fatherless character who grows up to be exactly the badass dude his dad was - 'you dad was a damn good cop' or something - but I just can't bring any to mind."<br /><br />This isn't quite what you're talking about, but isn't one of the subplots of Lord of the Rings that Aragorn--despite being basically a drifter--is destined for great things because of his bloodline?<br /><br />On a less mythic note, there's also Maverick in Top Gun. He learns towards the end of the movie that he inherited both his skill and his recklessness from his father, who was an unsung hero.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80393751306621919822010-08-15T23:48:26.335-07:002010-08-15T23:48:26.335-07:00"Wolfe may gloss over some things and I do no..."Wolfe may gloss over some things and I do not think he is very knowledgeable on Muslim matters but he is basically right that Islam is repackaged Arab nationalism."<br /><br />I'd quibble with this a bit. I agree that there's a lot of racism in the Arab world, and that some of the pride Arabs take in their religion is ethnic/nationalistic rather than purely religious. But the interesting questions are: which Arabs are most active in promoting Islamism among non-Arab Muslims, and which Arabs are most active in promoting an interpretation of Islam that sanctions violence against non-Muslims?<br /><br />In both cases, the answer tends to be: religiously-motivated Arabs who specifically define themselves in opposition to the more nationalist/ethnic visions represented by, say, Nasser. If someone is going to argue that al Qaeda is a symptom of Arab nationalism, racism, ethnic pride, etc., he'd need to demonstrate that those motivations dominate al Qaeda and its forebears (the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.) to a greater extent than they do other Arabs. I think that'd be hard to do, since al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood are dominated by men who are preoccupied by religion and not by ethnicity.<br /><br />I get that, if you say that Islam is a proxy for Arab ethnicity, the distinction I'm drawing ceases to matter. But that what bothers me about Wolfe's (or Wolfe's character's) argument in the first place. There's a fairly clear distinction, in the historical record and in the statements of various Arabs, between the Arab nationalists and the Islamists. If Wolfe or anybody else wants to explain why the Islamists are actually, secretly, the most nationalistic Arabs of all, he can have at it. But just asserting that everyone is primarily preoccupied with race because Tom Wolfe is, or because Americans tend to be, isn't much of an argument. Speaking of which:<br /><br />"Each individual adopts a set of values which, if truly absolute in the world--so ordained by some almighty force--would make not that individual but his group . . . the best of all possible groups, the best of all inner circles."<br /><br />Leaving aside the question of whether a theory Wolfe developed to belittle American grad students is a useful way to analyze the motivations of Arab Islamists, I don't think he wrong. I'd just say that, pretty clearly, Islamist militants define their "group" as Muslims who practice the "right" kind of Islam. They don't define their "group" or "inner circle" as "Arabs." Wolfe might respond that they SAY "Muslims" but MEAN "Arabs," but that's not an argument it's just an assertion. I could just assert the opposite and it would carry about as much weight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52537014187418246352010-08-15T20:49:07.543-07:002010-08-15T20:49:07.543-07:00I am surprised that there are so few hereditarian ...I am surprised that there are so few hereditarian themed books/movies these days. It seems to be me that the ones that have the theme are pretty popular. For example:<br /><br />I am told that there is a strong hereditarian theme in Harry Potter: witch power runs in the blood and personality characteristics, good and evil, repeat from one generation to the next.<br /><br />"I am your father." Nature over nurture was the case for both Skywalkers who were the best Jedis despite missing out on extensive training.<br /><br />Dune: Breeding a messiah.<br /><br />But that is all I can think of. It seems to me that there is a cliche orphan or fatherless character who grows up to be exactly the badass dude his dad was - "you dad was a damn good cop" or something - but I just can't bring any to mind.stamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58722170788957645542010-08-15T15:06:48.028-07:002010-08-15T15:06:48.028-07:00animals learning bad behavior from children
Hors...animals learning bad behavior from children <br /><br />Horses and dogs are observed to inherit habit complexes that amount to rudimentary personalities. In families of, say, ten siblings, the genetic dice throw was also evident in bifurcations along lines of temperment, ability, physiogmony, etc.<br /><br />Urban environments of 1.7 children and a single cat in the house do not provide "evidence of the senses" about these matters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28821519322277507172010-08-15T15:02:13.732-07:002010-08-15T15:02:13.732-07:00"That shows that you can get away with a lot ..."That shows that you can get away with a lot more politically incorrect things in novels than in movies."<br /><br />Good point; people have to know how to read in order to be offended by written material. That points to a long term strategy: communicate in silence, only by writing.Michael_SChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14179192580620356545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78364406902709775492010-08-15T15:01:27.884-07:002010-08-15T15:01:27.884-07:00Really? White women have been giving birth to chil...<i>Really? White women have been giving birth to children who aren't white?<br /><br />uhhhhhhhh, lern2biology</i><br /><br />Uh, yes. A white person has two white parents. Half-white is half-white, not white. This is complicated?Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23568899636903753502010-08-15T14:58:34.257-07:002010-08-15T14:58:34.257-07:00Josh - "Didnt Wolfe wimp out by making the pr...Josh - <i>"Didnt Wolfe wimp out by making the protaganist a whitey,with the main Jewish character being the sympathetic DA dude?"</i><br /><br />Blimey. I suppose Wolfe's portrait of Kramer is sort-of sympathetic on some levels, but most of us could do without that sort of sympathy. Kramer's a man who, as Churchill would put it, "falls beneath the level of events".Labanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12031578024191117985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-789641874327151812010-08-15T14:16:46.995-07:002010-08-15T14:16:46.995-07:00"Rosenzweigian hypothesis which Spengler used..."Rosenzweigian hypothesis which Spengler used to be developing"<br />Which had <a href="http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2009/05/spenglers-game.php" rel="nofollow">very little to do with Rosenzweig</a>.TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61914492455572705542010-08-15T13:51:12.712-07:002010-08-15T13:51:12.712-07:00Anonymous said...
Really? White women have been g...<i>Anonymous said...<br /><br />Really? White women have been giving birth to children who aren't white?<br /><br />uhhhhhhhh, lern2biology</i><br /><br />Happens all the time, increasingly so.<br /><br />Ever heard of Barack Hussein Obama. His White mother seemed to want to "run from blood" as much as possible.<br /><br />I wouldn't classify the children of Heidi Klum as White.<br /><br />As Steve has pointed out we are increasingly seeing the development in America of a "mulatto elite" mainly born of White females.<br /><br />We will also see a black elite inheriting the wealth and status of their White adoptive parents.<br /><br />These include the children of Steven Spielberg, Tom Cruise, Oscar de la Renta, Emma Thompson, Madonna, Sandra Bullock and large numbers of middle class SWPL White Americans.<br /><br />White women are making an important contribution to the ending of White America. They are doing it at the micro-personal level while powerful White men are doing it through government and corporate policy.DYorknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41679525696891647042010-08-15T13:41:35.048-07:002010-08-15T13:41:35.048-07:00"I agree with that and with the rest of your ..."I agree with that and with the rest of your post. I just draw a distinction between the dominance of Arabs within Islamism and saying that Islamism is, in any significant sense, about Arabs seeking to assert their racial or ethnic superiority over other ethnic groups."<br /><br />If you spend some time with non-Arab Muslims who have spent extensive time in Arab countries, they will talk your ear off about how "racist" the Arabs are towards other Muslims. As a result, Indonesians, Somalis, Turks, Persians, and Pakistanis do not like Arabs very much at all. But they do defer to them in all matters Islamic. Many people are aware of that piece of Sharia law that forbids a non-Muslim man from marrying a Muslim woman but they are not aware that a non-Arab Muslim man is forbidden from marrying an Arab Muslim woman. Also, a caliph must be an Arab of Quraishi descent. Basically, all of those non-Arab Muslims who are pining for a caliphate are begging to be ruled over by an Arab. That is why the Turks who ruled the Ottoman empire never referred to themselves as caliphs because they were not Arabs even though they had the same responsibilities as a caliph.<br /><br />Wolfe may gloss over some things and I do not think he is very knowledgeable on Muslim matters but he is basically right that Islam is repackaged Arab nationalism. Michel Aflaq, a prominent Christian Arab nationalist, converted to Islam for this express reason. Muslim Arabs are also the ones responsible for radicalizing Muslims and for encouraging them into taking their struggle global. If there was little Arab contact with other Muslims you wouldn't see things such as Nigerians, Pakistanis, and Albanians plotting terrorist attacks in the West. Instead, they'd be busy with their own sectarian struggles at home. Arabs see the big picture of Islam and only the most Arabized (devout) non-Arab Muslims share this vision.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1440598145299585642010-08-15T12:08:06.268-07:002010-08-15T12:08:06.268-07:00Re the idea of Muslems focusing on religion,as opp...Re the idea of Muslems focusing on religion,as opposed to race;Wasnt there a weird incident a few weeks ago where the spokesmen for the Dear Leader criticized Al Qaeda for its confinement of blacks to only the lowest levels of work,i.e. blowing themselves up?Obama was mad,apparently,because blacks werent being allowed more "opportunity"!!! ( I heard this on R Limbaugh,so I cant verify the exact story.) Re Jewish wives:Ed Sullivan had a Jewish wife. ( That makes me think of Ed doing a Lenny Bruce bit,laying in bed with his Jewish wife:"Come on...just TOUCH IT!!!!!") George M. Cohan,too. But he interestingly dumped her for a much younger woman later in his career. Re Wolfe,I loved BOTV,the book. Didnt the movie star Tom Hanks? WTF? The phrase "Master of the Universe" was adopted by Wolfe from financial types who refer to themselves that way;it comes from one of the names of God(or G-d)used by Hasidic jews. Didnt Wolfe wimp out by making the protaganist a whitey,with the main Jewish character being the sympathetic DA dude? Was Judith Regan his agent?joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57159048000037198582010-08-15T11:47:47.547-07:002010-08-15T11:47:47.547-07:00Or, alternatively, Wolfe IS a solipsistic, typical...<i>Or, alternatively, Wolfe IS a solipsistic, typically race-obsessed American, and can't fathom that people in other parts of the world may have concerns that are entirely alien to him.</i><br /><br />Surely you jest. <br /><br />"Even before I left graduate school I had come to the conclusion that virtually all people live by what I think of as a "fiction-absolute." Each individual adopts a set of values which, if truly absolute in the world--so ordained by some almighty force--would make not that individual but his group . . . the best of all possible groups, the best of all inner circles." <br /><br />-- Tom Wolfetravisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12293784467178281892010-08-15T11:18:03.231-07:002010-08-15T11:18:03.231-07:00"It's remarkable how untrue that increasi..."It's remarkable how untrue that increasingly is of White women.<br /><br />They are giving birth to and adopting non-White children at a remarkable rate."<br /><br />Really? White women have been giving birth to children who aren't white?<br /><br />uhhhhhhhh, lern2biologyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64055200375543630392010-08-15T10:04:24.157-07:002010-08-15T10:04:24.157-07:00It's not that Arab Muslims want to literally s...<i>It's not that Arab Muslims want to literally subjugate non-Arab Muslims but that in the Muslim world, Arab culture and Arabic is given preference over other Muslim cultures/languages.</i><br /><br />I agree with that and with the rest of your post. I just draw a distinction between the dominance of Arabs within Islamism and saying that Islamism is, in any significant sense, about Arabs seeking to assert their racial or ethnic superiority over other ethnic groups.<br /><br />Maybe I'm splitting hairs here. But when Wolfe asserts (or has one of his characters assert) that everything is about race and ethnicity, and Islamism is just the name some Arabs give to their racial chauvinism, he's badly misunderstanding Islamism. Given that there are a lot of Islamists who want to kill Americans, and a lot of Americans who want the United States to be at war with Islam or elements within Islam, I think it's important not to let over-heated rhetoric get in the way of looking at things in a more nuanced way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35239188612847361642010-08-15T08:36:54.175-07:002010-08-15T08:36:54.175-07:00How many non-swarthy Muslims do you know?How many non-swarthy Muslims do you know?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com