tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post2782940628182771521..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: DarfurUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3199581969852830352007-11-16T12:00:00.000-08:002007-11-16T12:00:00.000-08:00Deducing ethnic origin from names is a tricky busi...Deducing ethnic origin from names is a tricky business. For instance, Miller might suggest English origin, but it's also the third most common Jewish surname in the U.S.<BR/><BR/>Really, Rob, you just throw this stuff out there. As a Miller of unknown origin who almost married a Muslim, this information offers a disturbing possibility. It's becoming more and more clear why fathers used to lock their daughters away until they were safely married (and the responsibility of some other poor sap).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44957890931866935072007-11-15T17:46:00.000-08:002007-11-15T17:46:00.000-08:00I think the focus on Sudan was initially sparked b...I think the focus on Sudan was initially sparked by those interested in the conflict between the Christian south and the Muslim north (and the notorious slave trade that resulted). As that conflict began to wind down, attention began to center on Darfur.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89980716156538301592007-11-15T15:40:00.000-08:002007-11-15T15:40:00.000-08:00There is another conflict in the Sudan involving t...<I>There is another conflict in the Sudan involving the Arab Islamic government and the secessionists in the south who are Christian and animist. The secessionists are resisting the imposition of Islamic law, Islam, Arabization, and slavery on their society. I think that is the conflict to which you are referring.<BR/><BR/>-anonymouse</I><BR/><BR/>Writing something smart and using an "anonymous" handle should be a crime. <BR/><BR/>That said, check the links. The conflicts in Sudan are mixed up by the sources, and I think they may be unconsciously correct in doing so, because pretty much anywhere you go in Africa, no matter what various "causes" you can extrapolate from one disaster after another, they all play out in a very familiar and predictable manner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90894721865873449632007-11-15T15:39:00.000-08:002007-11-15T15:39:00.000-08:00"Now in contrast we have various “refugee camps” t...<I>"Now in contrast we have various “refugee camps” that have been home to 3 or 4 generations in some cases and that have been extant far longer than the wars that spawned them. Is it a wonder that the pity party never ends?"</I><BR/><BR/>This is true specifically of the Palestinians (who have their own separate UN bureaucracy to handle them versus another UN bureaucracy to deal with the rest of the world's refugees). Is it true of anyone else? Is there any other group that is still considered "refugees" decades after their grand parents became refugees? I can't think of one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55081438569714381742007-11-15T14:05:00.000-08:002007-11-15T14:05:00.000-08:00I have to give it to Mike for a compact indictment...I have to give it to Mike for a compact indictment of self-serving NGO types. An additional factor in this mess is the foundations and government agencies that sustain these NGO’s when the pickings are slim. Before this money was available there was much less of this kind of disaster careerism. Each humanitarian crisis was dealt with in an ad hoc manner and everyone went home.<BR/><BR/>Now in contrast we have various “refugee camps” that have been home to 3 or 4 generations in some cases and that have been extant far longer than the wars that spawned them. Is it a wonder that the pity party never ends?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6840416485588785652007-11-15T06:54:00.000-08:002007-11-15T06:54:00.000-08:00"It's really pretty clever if this is the case, be..."It's really pretty clever if this is the case, because he has managed to mobilize secular Westerners, Christians and Jews. Jews, because they see a Pharaoh/slaves situation (let my people go...); Christians, because the refugees are nominally Christian (nevermind that most are animists); and secularists because racial equality is their religion and they think the Arabs are white supremacists (in fact, they are black too)."<BR/><BR/>Both the "Arabs" and the Africans in the Darfur situation are Muslim. The "Arabs" (actually Arabized Africans of mixed Arab and sub-Saharan African background) have been terrorizing the African population there for quite some time. The only difference is now the Western media and Western “cause junkies” have decided this situation merits attention and needs to be solved by Western governments based on a cursory understanding of what’s happening down there. <BR/><BR/>There is another conflict in the Sudan involving the Arab Islamic government and the secessionists in the south who are Christian and animist. The secessionists are resisting the imposition of Islamic law, Islam, Arabization, and slavery on their society. I think that is the conflict to which you are referring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67986962989391395062007-11-15T03:55:00.000-08:002007-11-15T03:55:00.000-08:00I think the NGO angle is the strongest. Wherever y...I think the NGO angle is the strongest. Wherever you have refugee camps you are going to have hundreds of bleeding hearts all with a piece of the action, including the security companies, the reporters and cameramen, the bush pilots to fly to and fro, the water suppliers, the food suppliers, those who set up clinics, those who set up schools, and those who ship all the people out and replant them from Minneapolis to Maine and Dublin to the banlieus of Marseilles.<BR/><BR/>A fundamental requirement is someplace SAFE. That place is the internationally managed refugee camp. At the camp they have a concentrated group of pathetic souls, each guaranteed to have a sound bite story, mouths to feed, Western food and medicine nearby (for them), a pool of pathetic humanity they can gather and pimp to the world, international flights relatively close to bring in celebrities and politicians, and , in general, a place where they meet up and mingle like it was old home week.<BR/><BR/>If you don't have a camp, if you don't have a safe place for westerners and their contractors to gather, you will not have the critical mass of bleeding hearts and bleeding heart industries form and coordinate. And the camp guarantees that they are victims and not perpetrators. <BR/><BR/>Filled with starving women and chidren, you never see the camp-dwellers toyi-toyi with calls for blood, you never see them necklace a captured janjaweed or cut up their attackers for muti. They are presented as defenceless martyrs.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444521661983167234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56784602724810261522007-11-14T22:34:00.000-08:002007-11-14T22:34:00.000-08:00If it's blacks oppressing whites, like ZimbabweZim...<I>If it's blacks oppressing whites, like Zimbabwe</I><BR/><BR/>Zimbabwe is black elites oppressing poor blacks. Despite the narrative that you hear from(ironically) both the Western media and the Mugabe dictatorship, whites have very little to do with whats going on over there. Most of the white farmers have already left. Mugabe's primary victims are black.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28419484324394530482007-11-14T22:17:00.000-08:002007-11-14T22:17:00.000-08:00Because in the eyes of the far left, the only wars...<I>Because in the eyes of the far left, the only wars America has any right to get involved in a wars where:<BR/><BR/>1) The victims have little to nothing in common with white Christian Americans. SO no helping white Christians, but helping blacks is OK, as is helping Muslims - so long as...<BR/><BR/>2) The nation has no oil reserves, or any other reason to be of strategic interest to the US. The war must be morally "pure." That means America can have zero interest in the outcome of the war.</I><BR/><BR/>I disagree. I don't think that its the "far left" as much as the center-left liberals (as well as neocons and evangelical Christians) who are pushing for war with Sudan. Those who call themselves "leftists," as opposed to liberals, generally oppose wars of "humanitarian intervention." Chomsky, for example, vigorously opposed the bombing of Kosovo. Just take a look at this article from Counterpunch which opposes U.S. intervention in the Sudan: <BR/>http://www.counterpunch.org/frank05112006.html<BR/><BR/>I punched "darfur" into the search engine at Counterpunch and couldn't find one article which advocated U.S. intervention, or even sanctions or a no-fly zone or something of that nature, and I found many articles opposing such proposals.<BR/><BR/>No, its not leftists who are behind the Darfur agitation. Instead, its a bizarre alliance of <BR/>liberals, college activists(who tend to be liberals), neocons, and Jewish and Christian groups. I have to say this is one of the strangest coalitions I've seen in a while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24747920297407118922007-11-14T22:03:00.000-08:002007-11-14T22:03:00.000-08:00The Darfur region is part of Sudan, which has plen...<I>The Darfur region is part of Sudan, which has plenty of oil.</I> - fred<BR/><BR/>Indeed, Fred. I had forgotten. If memory serves, however, Chinese companies now having the drilling rights. So America can be asked to get involved without having any national interest. And, of course, we'll be expected to allow the Chinese to keep their drilling rights.<BR/><BR/>I say call their bluff. Say to the left "We'll send troops, if we can seize (or tax) drilling rights to fund the operation." Then see what they say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50924694644103587712007-11-14T22:02:00.000-08:002007-11-14T22:02:00.000-08:00Actually, very few people are worked up over Darfu...Actually, very few people are worked up over Darfur. It's just that the people who are worked up over Darfur have really large megaphones.<BR/><BR/>Jews are always looking for an opportunity to pit the Western world against the Muslims, and Darfur is an opportunity to do this.<BR/><BR/>Also, Jews are concerned that liberals might oppose the Neocon agenda because of pacifist tendencies. Darfur is an opportunity to generate blood-lust and war-mongering among liberals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72422717239258700312007-11-14T21:53:00.000-08:002007-11-14T21:53:00.000-08:00One more rule to keep in mind: if it's whites oppr...One more rule to keep in mind: if it's whites oppressing blacks, i'll get lots of attention (apartheid era South Africa). If it's blacks oppressing whites, like Zimbabwe (and the future OSuth Africa) it gets no attention at all. The far left doesn't like the idea that blacks can oppress anyone - it contradicts and disporves their whole belief system.<BR/><BR/>We will continue to hear absolutely nothing about Zimbabwe. If we do it will only be about some "famine" which magically appeared out of nowhere and was caused by nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26760250907407784432007-11-14T18:56:00.000-08:002007-11-14T18:56:00.000-08:00No great conspiracy (and no we won't go to war wit...No great conspiracy (and no we won't go to war with Iran, which in any case is already at war with us and has been since 1979). Instead GWB who is fundamentally lazy will kick the can (along with Pakistan) down the road as Clinton did with Osama for the next President. We'll hear from Iran or Pakistan or both when several US cities are in ashes, some "deniable" group makes demands. And we have to get to serious killing to forestall more attacks by others.<BR/><BR/>Darfur is a confluence of various factors. Christian groups agitated in the 1990's about slavery of Christians in the South by the Jihadi regime in the North. Darfur allows facile and cost-free moralizing by the liberal media and press, since there is no chance for anyone to do anything about it -- Blackwater has offered to stop the killing for 1.5 billion -- but no one is likely to take them up on it.<BR/><BR/>The liberal fantasy that "talk" can solve any problem allows that to take place wrt Darfur with endless rallies, conferences, etc. Bonus: demonstration of superior morality and spirituality which is key for wealth liberals.<BR/><BR/>NGOs like HRW and Amnesty trumpet it to raise money and continue their existence.<BR/><BR/>The Anon commenter talking about the Military Industrial complex does not know what he's talking about. Rumsfeld made himself the enemy of the "Big Army" military contractors when he cancelled the Crusader Artillery program on the grounds that it could never be moved to places it was needed like the ME (too big and heavy). Moreover Iraq and Afghanistan have led to within both the Army and Marines a push for more, cheaper, and smaller UAVs for surveillance, and more close-air support UAVs taking "Big Air Force" military procurement programs out of the loop.<BR/><BR/>Army and Marine forces want their own Predators with Hellfires for close-air-support rather than the Air Force "maybe" having an F-22 on station (or not). If anything the ubiquity and rapid development of UAVs, new small arms, and anti-IED measures are oriented to small, politically ineffective vendors. Not "big Army" vendors or the guys responsible for the F-22. <BR/><BR/>Military spending will likely go up, under any administration, but it's like to go for: lots of UAVs, better small arms, better armor, something better than the useless in combat Humvee, Camelbak hydration systems, etc. Not a whole lot of markup there folks.<BR/><BR/>If ANYONE has been paying attention instead of putting the tinfoil hats on during the Ron Paulnut rallies, say reading Defense Weekly, the Navy-Airforce response to Iraq (where they've largely sat it out) and the threat from Iran and Pakistan has been "let us handle it -- now give us more ships/F-22s" and argue that the US can "win" a combination of Desert Fox (Clinton's 98-99 Iraq bombing campaign) and Kosovo-Serbia. Presumably with 100% fewer Chinese Embassies bombed! But the services are careful to note they don't have the "capacity" now and need a whole lot more stuff to get it done (which is likely true).<BR/><BR/>If there was money to be made in getting rid of the Iran-Pakistan nuke problem it would have bipartisan support and would have been already done. Instead both are a threat, a big one (due to factionalism-tribalism in both nations) but no money to be made only saved. And generally people will exert themselves to make a penny but not get off the couch to save a buck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45477597085592492872007-11-14T18:28:00.000-08:002007-11-14T18:28:00.000-08:00I think anonymous 3:11 is fairly close to the trut...I think anonymous 3:11 is fairly close to the truth in his final paragraph. I started hearing about Sudanese government atrocities against its Christian population over a decade ago in places like Reader's Digest and the Christian websites that existed back then. So there was already an awareness of Sudanese horrors when the Darfur war began that made people notice. <BR/><BR/> I don't think the George Clooney explanation is correct because celebrities like him jumped on the bandwagon after it was already much-publicized, not before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36303798083994616602007-11-14T18:09:00.000-08:002007-11-14T18:09:00.000-08:00darfur is a way to "protest" iraq by daring the go...darfur is a way to "protest" iraq by daring the government to double down on humanitarianism. <BR/><BR/>since there is a quasi-humanitarian reason to be in iraq, the darfur activist plays chicken with this motivation by testing the governments desire and ability to fund another useless incursion. <BR/><BR/>the government either has to agree that humanitarianism is worth any price and go into darfur because we're in iraq, or admit we're only in iraq because of oil and we're a bunch of callous assholes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41518273978494507192007-11-14T16:41:00.000-08:002007-11-14T16:41:00.000-08:00"Google some pictures of the people involved, ther...<I>"Google some pictures of the people involved, there is no racial difference between the two sides."</I><BR/><BR/>The Janjaweed don't look a lot lighter than the people they are raping and killing, that is true. The president of Sudan, for that matter, who I'm sure considers himself an Arab, is quite dark. But Janjaweed don't seem to agree that there is no racial difference between them and the people they are raping and killing. Arabs, with their history of slavery combined with their tradition of manumission, have different ideas about race. <BR/> <BR/>Christopher Caldwell had another great column about Darfur a few days ago in the Financial Times: <A HREF="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/f0290998-8ef5-11dc-87ee-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Ff0290998-8ef5-11dc-87ee-0000779fd2ac.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcomment%2Fcolumnists%2Fchristophercaldwell" REL="nofollow">An Abduction of Idealism</A>. It's about a French entrepreneur/philanthropist who is under arrest in Chad now for trying to rescue child refugees of Darfur. It seems there is some disagreement about whether these children were refugees and whether what the Frenchman planned to do would have been a rescue or a kidnapping.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5297625183747978172007-11-14T15:14:00.000-08:002007-11-14T15:14:00.000-08:00"Because in the eyes of the far left, the only war...<I>"Because in the eyes of the far left, the only wars America has any right to get involved in a wars where:<BR/><BR/>[...]<BR/><BR/>2) The nation has no oil reserves, or any other reason to be of strategic interest to the US. The war must be morally "pure." That means America can have zero interest in the outcome of the war."</I><BR/><BR/>The Darfur region is part of Sudan, which has plenty of oil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33891623440265836802007-11-14T15:11:00.000-08:002007-11-14T15:11:00.000-08:00"Darfur involves caucasians (very swarthy caucasia..."Darfur involves caucasians (very swarthy caucasians, but still) perpetuating the atrocities on black africans."<BR/><BR/>Google some pictures of the people involved, there is no racial difference between the two sides. One group are black African muslims who primarily speak some Afro-Asiatic language and the others are black African muslims who primarily speak some african language. Neither group appears to have any caucasian admixture. <BR/><BR/>A lot of white people probably don't realize that the strong "negroid" racial features we associate with africans are most prevailent in West Africa and less so in other parts. Many pure bantu people for example have very thin lips.<BR/><BR/>Also, people are confusing this civil conflict(Darfur) with a seperate conflict in the south of Sudan which involves Christians(who aren't all good guys).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87545965441922240952007-11-14T14:10:00.000-08:002007-11-14T14:10:00.000-08:00I'm sorry, but I keep hearing that this war is bet...I'm sorry, but I keep hearing that this war is between sub-Saharan non-Arab Blacks and Arab caucasians, but I've looked at pictures of the janjaweed and the so-called "black" people in Darfur, and I can't for the life of me tell the difference between them. Just take a look at this guy<BR/>http://dusteye.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/janjawid.jpg<BR/><BR/>Are you telling me he's not black? Maybe I can't tell just because I'm a Westerner, but this doesn't look like a racial war to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47391232888457475842007-11-14T13:20:00.000-08:002007-11-14T13:20:00.000-08:00The primary reason is that, while the destiction b...The primary reason is that, while the destiction between genocide and war is often a fuzzy judgement call, Darfur manages to fit the genocide description well enough to attract attention, as did Rwanda in the 1990's. Remember how much attention Rwanda got? Genocide gets attention.<BR/><BR/>There are secondary reasons (like, this is post-9/11, and the Darfur bad guys are Muslims), but the reason stated above would alone be enough for Darfur to get a lot of attention.<BR/><BR/>If only Prester John's Ethiopia would suddenly solve our Darfur problem on their own, with no downside for us, like in Somolia...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45334329189769860012007-11-14T12:24:00.000-08:002007-11-14T12:24:00.000-08:00Because its quasi-black people killing black peopl...Because its quasi-black people killing black people, as opposed to black people killing black people. Liberals jump at the chance of making a cause with the former, but simply do not want to think about the later.<BR/><BR/>EOT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83029336250077214332007-11-14T11:33:00.000-08:002007-11-14T11:33:00.000-08:00Because in the eyes of the far left, the only wars...Because in the eyes of the far left, the only wars America has any right to get involved in a wars where:<BR/><BR/>1) The victims have little to nothing in common with white Christian Americans. SO no helping white Christians, but helping blacks is OK, as is helping Muslims - so long as...<BR/><BR/>2) The nation has no oil reserves, or any other reason to be of strategic interest to the US. The war must be morally "pure." That means America can have zero interest in the outcome of the war.<BR/><BR/>As I've said before, I'm all for America getting involved in a few places where we have no strategic interest, like Zimbabwe or Sudan. I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing about those damn so-called "lost boys."<BR/><BR/>And America does have a strategic reason to get involved in Africa - to eliminate any and all excuses for those refugees to come to the West. Invade Sudan, make Darfur safe, and carve out a place for refugees from other African nations, so that when any African wants refugee or asylum status we can say "We know just the place" - and it won't be Portland or Minneapolis.<BR/><BR/>Create similar places in Somlia for Muslim refugees and one in Southeast Asia (Burma?) for Asians. All refugee problems solved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46440834594309460632007-11-14T09:53:00.000-08:002007-11-14T09:53:00.000-08:00I don't think you've missed anything, Steve. How d...I don't think you've missed anything, Steve. How do I know? Well, I myself haven't checked much of anything about Darfur, and for some odd reason I don't feel like I'd missed out on anything. And in this particular incident, my ignorance is probably as reliable as anything else.<BR/><BR/>Darfur is probably in a state-of-... err, -darfur. Which is pretty much why it doesn't show up on our "man bites dog" or "man caresses dog's bitable areas with an impish smirk on his face" maps.<BR/><BR/>...or I'm a hazard to society.<BR/><BR/><BR/>JDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55155238613393191662007-11-14T09:28:00.000-08:002007-11-14T09:28:00.000-08:00It is one of those chaotic social things.Which eve...It is one of those chaotic social things.<BR/><BR/>Which ever fashionable issue manages to gather enough momentum steamrollers the rest.<BR/><BR/>After a while, in their zeal to be seen as sensitive to the plight of those poor, benighted Africans, everyone piles on and forgets the other horrible things that happen elsewhere in Africa or even in the world.<BR/><BR/>No point in overdoing it, eh?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80336200531542158122007-11-14T09:14:00.000-08:002007-11-14T09:14:00.000-08:00I have heard people claim that Darfur is about lig...I have heard people claim that Darfur is about light-skinned people killing dark-skinned people because of their skin color. In their minds, it's a white vs black war. Whereas the other wars in Africa aren't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com