tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post3187803040583983485..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Barbara Harris: Paying Cash to Crack Addicts for ContraceptionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23753925916252708922012-05-23T00:00:19.144-07:002012-05-23T00:00:19.144-07:00This is Barbara Harris. I'd like to let everyo...This is Barbara Harris. I'd like to let everyone know that the comment made comparing addicts to dogs was NOT my comment. It was made by the sister of an addict we paid directed at her sister who was having baby #6 that the family would be taking in. I repeated the comment on a 60 Minute interview telling of the frustration that people feel and of course with editing being what it is the comment became mine. To all of you who are against what Project Prevention does and believe these women should just continue giving birth I hope you've had a home study done so you can adopt and raise the children that will be born.Barbara Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690072459345530356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75645834765074060092012-05-22T23:55:13.634-07:002012-05-22T23:55:13.634-07:00This is Barbara Harris, just for the record the co...This is Barbara Harris, just for the record the comment comparing addicts to dogs was not made by me. It was a comment that was made about one of the women we paid who was having her 6th baby by her sister. I repeated it in my 60 Minute's interview telling them what the sister said, but of course with editing being what it is I got the credit for the statement!Barbara Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07690072459345530356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34331040401283790712012-05-07T16:46:37.453-07:002012-05-07T16:46:37.453-07:00Sorry to take so long to check back in, some stuff...Sorry to take so long to check back in, some stuff came up. <br /><br />If anyone still cares:<br /><br />"If I introduced you to some of my students who were born with damage to their digestive systems, hears, and diminished brain function due to their mother's drug use, would you tell the, "Tough shit. Preventing suffering such as yours isn't worth sterilizing willing women"?" <br /><br />I would certainly be completely bummed out if I met these students. But avoiding bummed-out-ness is not a moral imperative, and it doesn't give me the right to do whatever it takes to make the feeling go away.<br /><br />The Hippocratic Oath says you work for your patient and nobody else, and you do what's best for your patient. These women may be willing to get the surgery, but if they're not willing to do it for free that's a good sign they don't believe it per se is in their best interest. And you can't say it's objectively in the patient's medical interest, because what you're fundamentally doing is taking an organ that used to work and make it not work. Now it is in the interest of me and you and Barbara Harris and anyone else who has to be bummed out by the spectacle of how these women live their lives, and in some cases it may be in the interest of the tax payer. And yes, if we all get together and give her cash she may be willing to do the surgery. But "willing" is not remotely the same thing as "in the best interest of".<br /><br />Basically what I'm saying is: Look at Harris's tone in the interview, and look at the tone of these comments. If as a doctor you're letting someone who views your patient like a stray cat call the shots in her treatment, it's a pretty good sign you're doing something wrong.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20656762070212443732012-05-04T14:33:33.325-07:002012-05-04T14:33:33.325-07:00Chairman Mao held that drug users and dealers were...<i>Chairman Mao held that drug users and dealers were BOTH social parasites and eliminated them both. Maybe he was right?</i><br /><br />Pet dogs, too.Paul Mendeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6455887879110641592012-05-04T14:29:07.801-07:002012-05-04T14:29:07.801-07:00Now I know what I'll do when I win Megamillion...Now I know what I'll do when I win Megamillions!Paul Mendeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90211659628737808132012-05-04T09:38:53.110-07:002012-05-04T09:38:53.110-07:00Chairman Mao held that drug users and dealers were...Chairman Mao held that drug users and dealers were BOTH social parasites and eliminated them both. Maybe he was right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49935242994460944752012-05-04T05:17:53.379-07:002012-05-04T05:17:53.379-07:00For up-front you'd have to have an age-limit. ...<i>For up-front you'd have to have an age-limit. Otherwise almost everyone, even the long-time oriented, will get sterilized at age 48. The cost would be enormous and do no good.</i><br /><br />True. Just figure the payment on a declining scale. Calculate what it would be worth as a stipend and add it all up, basically.Svigorhttp://svigor.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10717041516904340152012-05-03T18:14:11.912-07:002012-05-03T18:14:11.912-07:00The comparisons to Planned Parenthood are also a b...The comparisons to Planned Parenthood are also a bit strained. Here the prime eugenicists are the self-selected clients of Harris, not the other way around. But perhaps being morally culpable by proxy for this form of kickstarter eugenics is preferable to being culpable for increased numbers born out of wedlock to unaccountable irresponsible women (which is the moral posture reserved by her opponents)Alcalde Jaime Miguel Curleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11801154986193443160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22685953294357525162012-05-03T18:07:09.377-07:002012-05-03T18:07:09.377-07:00It is not an invalid point to say that KRACK/Proje...It is not an invalid point to say that KRACK/Project Prevention can't reasonably be scaled out--it depends on a disastrous welfare apparatus to supply it with the problem to remedy. But it's different from paying carjackers not to steal cars because it compels the third party, not as a matter of this mother's liberties but rather everyone else's right not to have to take on the son or daughter of an unwed drug abuser as a ward of the state. Where's your delicate "ethical" sensibility about THAT, a.k.a. the Byzantine, corrosive, rotted-out system of deviancy-defining we have now. As Chesterton said "When a man thinks any stick will do he at once picks up a boomerang"Alcalde Jaime Miguel Curleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11801154986193443160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10902033601771660012012-05-03T14:14:04.979-07:002012-05-03T14:14:04.979-07:00"A stipend would be a waste. In fact, it woul..."A stipend would be a waste. In fact, it would be counter-productive. Take everything you're willing to pay, and pay it up front. That way you're selecting for present-orientation and low impulse control."<br /><br />For up-front you'd have to have an age-limit. Otherwise almost everyone, even the long-time oriented, will get sterilized at age 48. The cost would be enormous and do no good.<br /><br />Or maybe not. After all, it would be only about the same as one-year's Social Security. And why shouldn't good folk get some direct benefit from the taxes they pay?<br /><br />Robert HumeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12918603919523330562012-05-03T12:04:29.851-07:002012-05-03T12:04:29.851-07:00I know a woman who works in child support enforcem...I know a woman who works in child support enforcement. She and her coworkers have a running joke about colocating with a vasectomy clinic, and sending the guys who are on the hook for kids with a couple different baby mommas down the hall for a free snip. (It wouldn't be entirely crazy to offer a stipend for this situation, either.)NOTAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39982014117450184002012-05-03T12:01:16.972-07:002012-05-03T12:01:16.972-07:00So if we combine the up-front cash stipend for ste...So if we combine the up-front cash stipend for sterilization surgery with very generous childcare and mommy & baby medical care for qualifying students at colleges, do you think anyone will notice the pattern? (And will that change if we automatically adjust the graduate students' stipends upward for each child by the student or wife of the student? How about if we waive some student loan debt for hard pressed recent graduates with children?). <br /><br />None of this is likely to have a huge effect--it's spitting into the ocean compared to other demographic forces at work in our society. But maybe it helps around the edges, both in terms of making the next generation a little smarter and healthier, and decreasing the total amount of human misery somewhat. <br /><br />None of this requires coercion or taxation, just private decisionmakers.NOTAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6822161966281276382012-05-03T11:39:23.301-07:002012-05-03T11:39:23.301-07:00I like Anonymous #1's idea.
Wonder if Gates F...I like Anonymous #1's idea.<br /><br />Wonder if Gates Foundation would fund it?<br /><br /><br />Related: Pay poor illegal immigrants receiving any type of public assistance to be sterilized, have their anchor babies renounce citizenship, and then leave permanently.Philosophernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62443608366044940782012-05-03T11:34:24.349-07:002012-05-03T11:34:24.349-07:00Norplant was withdrawn from US in 2002 but still i...Norplant was withdrawn from US in 2002 but still is in use in developing world.<br /><br />DKT International founded by Adam and Eve sex toy founder Phil Harvey distributes free birth control in developing world. Google them. IIRC, around 15 years ago, 60 Minutes profiled them and highlighted a non-surgical procedure similar to tubal ligation. It's not available in US.Philosophernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78457738836618810042012-05-03T11:07:19.887-07:002012-05-03T11:07:19.887-07:00I'm sorry, but this is not right. Surgical ste...I'm sorry, but this is not right. Surgical sterilization (i.e. hacking up a healthy organ for life style, not medical, reasons) is already on ethical thin ice when it's done to benefit the patient's life style. To do a sterilization to benefit the life style of some third party not the patient is just totally ethically indefensible. <br /><br />And if the idea is "we're tough. post-Christian people, what do we care about morality and ethics?" then why do you care if some addict unethically has 14 kids? Barbara Harris says she wanted a little girl to play live dress up doll with, and Barbara Harris got a little girl to play live dress up doll with. The addict gets to keep her human dignity (or what's left after what she's done to it herself), and the little girl gets to be alive. Win-win-win, at no cost to the tax payer. If Harris doesn't want to take all the extra siblings she doesn't have to, there are plenty of people in this country who would love to adopt a baby. Is she seriously saying "I felt sort of bad about splitting up half siblings who never met each other. Don't make me choose between feeling sort of bad and having no control over my family size: let's smash the Hippocratic Oath to smithereens instead"?<br /><br />And if she's worried about innocent babies suffering from being born addicted, yes that's ugly. (Although I do recall Slate is always running articles debunking these crack baby stories, e.g. how much of the baby's distress was withdrawl and how much was just colic?) But again, if we don't care about ethics, why do we care about the temporary suffering of some random baby we've never met? "I feel sort of baby about a baby suffering, so let's replace the Hippocratic Oath with 'If your patient is a crack whore, go ahead and carve her up'". Seriously, do you want Dr. What's Morality, If The Check Clears I'll Do It counseling you on your surgical options right after he's done a couple of these ladies?<br /><br /><br />Talk about "intelectual dishonesty", (roll eyes)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37324059140767352852012-05-03T10:58:52.815-07:002012-05-03T10:58:52.815-07:00"I bet that for a 20 grand, the number of tak..."I bet that for a 20 grand, the number of takers would be well over a million."<br /><br />Heck, I might to it for 20 grand for the rest of my life. Sounds sweet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23837306745163832762012-05-03T09:36:58.133-07:002012-05-03T09:36:58.133-07:00It’s Only “Good Science” if the Message is Politic...<a href="http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2010/11/its-only-good-science-if-the-message-is-politically-correct/" rel="nofollow"> It’s Only “Good Science” if the Message is Politically Correct </a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5360150830694379882012-05-03T08:19:22.473-07:002012-05-03T08:19:22.473-07:00Sterilizing crack addicts seems almost like a no-b...Sterilizing crack addicts seems almost like a no-brainer, given the effects of crack on the fetus. That this would even be controversial is bizarre.Georgia Residentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58924700818272301892012-05-03T07:10:36.490-07:002012-05-03T07:10:36.490-07:00She needs a silver-tongued spokesperson while she ...She needs a silver-tongued spokesperson while she shuts up and does her job. A lot of people agree with her and would help her succeed but she is politically dangerous to work with because she is a motor mouth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-27912764609284557962012-05-03T06:07:59.205-07:002012-05-03T06:07:59.205-07:00In my last post I should have said that Mencken wr...In my last post I should have said that Mencken wrote about this 75 years ago.Dahindanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68515893808894828792012-05-03T06:06:26.477-07:002012-05-03T06:06:26.477-07:00Mencken wrote about this 90 years ago: http://menc...Mencken wrote about this 90 years ago: http://mencken.info/2010/08/utopia-by-sterilization/Dahindanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40415367666995693402012-05-03T05:03:35.243-07:002012-05-03T05:03:35.243-07:00Maybe there is a way to temporarily sterilize wome...<i><br />Maybe there is a way to temporarily sterilize women on welfare. </i><br /><br />It's called an IUD.Lucillenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17289317888258247312012-05-03T04:38:15.105-07:002012-05-03T04:38:15.105-07:00"Legalized abortion was supposed to make the ..."Legalized abortion was supposed to make the gene pool better, but my lying eyes see otherwise."<br /><br />But maybe legalized abortion accounts for the decline in crime rates! Just a thought. What else accounts for the great mystery? <br /><br />I used to think it was the decline in lead due to stopping using lead in gasoline. But the continuing decline has reduced me to wondering if maybe it's lead in the mother's system.<br /><br />Now here's another possibility.<br /><br />Robert HumeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43346609519604640392012-05-03T04:09:42.956-07:002012-05-03T04:09:42.956-07:00The 200 dollars is the shocker. I'd pay a whol...<i>The 200 dollars is the shocker. I'd pay a whole class of people a stipend of 20K a year for sterilization. That's an investment that would give near-infinite gains, long term.</i><br /><br />A stipend would be a waste. In fact, it would be counter-productive. Take everything you're willing to pay, and pay it up front. That way you're selecting for present-orientation and low impulse control.<br /><br /><i>I would be willing to pay drug addicts, long-term welfare recipients, and the chronically homeless a lot more than $200 to undergo permanent sterilization.</i><br /><br />Why bother with the qualifications?<br /><br /><i>I like the way you think. But, remember, these people aren't future oriented at all. I bet hundreds of thousands would agree to be sterilized for one payment of 10,000. I bet that for a 20 grand, the number of takers would be well over a million.</i><br /><br />Indeed. Stipends are the wrong way to go.<br /><br />It's also a good idea to keep all the personal data of the recipients private. No need to go announcing the racial breakdowns, or any other.<br /><br /><i>The problem of course is that this is a classic slippery slope issue. Someone will quickly extrapolate from drug eugenics to race eugenics and everyone will recoil in horror. I don't think America is anywhere near being ready to consider "final solutions".</i><br /><br />I think it's a mistake to qualify the recipients for addiction or other pathology. Just offer them as big a one-time payment as you can afford, and advertise.<br /><br /><i>I'm sorry, but this is not right. Surgical sterilization (i.e. hacking up a healthy organ for life style, not medical, reasons) is already on ethical thin ice when it's done to benefit the patient's life style. </i><br /><br />Breast implants fall into this category. So, millions of Americans strongly disagree with you.<br /><br /><i>To do a sterilization to benefit the life style of some third party not the patient is just totally ethically indefensible.</i><br /><br />The third party's benefit is immaterial, as long as the recipient benefits. And society isn't really a "third party" in the sense you're suggesting (though I suppose the husbands and boyfriends of women with breast implants could be considered such a nefarious, benefiting 3rd party)<br /><br /><i>The morality and beliefs society would need to adopt in order to find this just are inhuman and anti-Christian. Patriarchy, especially with a belief in brotherly love, not technocratic fixes, is the only thing that can improve us.</i><br /><br />I think you have to make a case, if you want to convince anyone. And you haven't.<br /><br />And I don't see how Patriarchy would be exclusive here.<br /><br /><i>Legalized abortion was supposed to make the gene pool better, but my lying eyes see otherwise.</i><br /><br />Do you have any numbers? AFAIK, the numbers contradict you.<br /><br />This program would actually be an unambiguous good in Africa. Currently, 1st world nations are setting Africa up for a massive die-off by building their population far beyond sustainable levels. When, not if, the aid spigot turns off, starvation will kill millions of them. Getting their population down to sustainable levels before that happens would be a good deed, not a sin.Svigorhttp://svigor.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38618349699072611232012-05-03T04:03:00.066-07:002012-05-03T04:03:00.066-07:00"Legalized abortion was supposed to make the ..."Legalized abortion was supposed to make the gene pool better, but my lying eyes see otherwise. <br />One has to be pretty nihilistic and godless to view these things as good, and a society made up of such people do not have the fortitude, energy, or desire to raise children." (Rose)<br /><br />Do you see the exponential growth in world population? Where do you think it ends? When our farmland is out of fossil water or fossil fuel or mined fertilizer components, and production drops 85% (literally, estimates I've seen say we have 6x over production due to these unsustainable inputs), then what happens. <br /><br />The world has too many people period. I think it's better to prevent someone from having children (especially in a voluntary context), than to kill them as young adults in wars/famine/ect...<br /><br />I would argue that abortion has improved the world relative to where we would be otherwise. It's just hard to see amidst the backdrop of skyrocketing population. I looked at the numbers a while back and seem to remember abortion saving us one population doubling in 100 years at present rates.<br /><br />Johnsockshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02729419432788184210noreply@blogger.com