tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post3615987943760320453..comments2024-03-29T05:14:33.223-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: "When Writers Speak"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16856460167264194492009-10-03T14:30:03.574-07:002009-10-03T14:30:03.574-07:00Nothing more boring than reading writers writing a...Nothing more boring than reading writers writing about their writing process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24929121142630191742009-09-29T15:47:37.113-07:002009-09-29T15:47:37.113-07:00"These days, I don't have the kind of mem...<em>"These days, I don't have the kind of memory left where I can work out a long chain of argument in my head. I have to put my flickering thoughts down on screen right away before they go away."<br /><br />Why write stuff like this? You frighten the young. I.E.....Me. </em><br /><br />Me too. How much does a person lose as he ages? I once heard that by your seventies you typically fall a standard deviation. Is this true?Richard Hostehttp://hbdbooks.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6144420304356108942009-09-29T06:38:12.504-07:002009-09-29T06:38:12.504-07:00"Only good speakers/orators can truly change ..."Only good speakers/orators can truly change history...the best thing writers can hope to do is influence the ideas of great oratorical politicians who in turn use that knowledge to influence the masses."<br /><br />Newton, Adam Smith, Darwin, Edison, Ford, WWII codebreakers, ... ?<br /><br />Depends on what you mean by "writers" I suppose. Certainly Shakespeare, Tolstoy, etc., did not change history.RobertHumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03913525250329418444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62177496680133652072009-09-29T00:42:41.207-07:002009-09-29T00:42:41.207-07:00Only good speakers/orators can truly change histor...Only good speakers/orators can truly change history...the best thing writers can hope to do is influence the ideas of great oratorical politicians who in turn use that knowledge to influence the masses.<br /><br />The generally ignorant masses do not respond well to writing, logic, facts, or reason -- instead, they are only swayed by eloquent speakers/orators who use strong emotion. The ancient Greeks/Romans understood this and studied and practiced rhetoric and public speaking profusely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19581536189202461202009-09-28T20:31:21.360-07:002009-09-28T20:31:21.360-07:00I'm a loner and I perform very much better whe...I'm a loner and I perform very much better when no one is observing me. I once tried to commentate a cycle race and just couldn't keep up with the race. Couldn't even remember the participants names,but could always win the races.I think teachers thought I was dim except when I wrote external exams and came up with distinctions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11081354359310570852009-09-28T20:23:50.966-07:002009-09-28T20:23:50.966-07:00In "The Bell Curve" the authors point ou...In "The Bell Curve" the authors point out that a high IQ person may not always be quick or articulate on his feet due the fact that he's processing so much more information. <br /><br />Then again, those that are both quick on their toes and say intelligent things must be bright. All great writers must likewsise be bright. Therefore high IQ is probably necesary but not sufficient for either skill. <br /><br />Some equate "g" with processing speed, and since all the top writers probably have high "g", it is strange that so many are average in spoken word. Perhaps they get anxiety knowing they fall short of their wit and colorful use of language in writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-85083038319787895942009-09-28T18:45:24.180-07:002009-09-28T18:45:24.180-07:00I went to a P.J.O'Rourke book signing (Eat the...I went to a P.J.O'Rourke book signing (Eat the Rich) where he read a passage from the book's intro.<br /><br />He sounded...well he sounded like ME. Hesitant, halting, and not well paced. After he tripped on a word he said "Wow, I'm going to pieces over one word." But to read his stuff it's obvious he's highly gifted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6145014015536073852009-09-28T17:28:51.796-07:002009-09-28T17:28:51.796-07:00Tom Wolfe is a great writer who is also an enterta...Tom Wolfe is a great writer who is also an entertaining speaker. His speaking style, though, is different from his writing style.Pentheusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84748564893537813172009-09-28T16:25:16.674-07:002009-09-28T16:25:16.674-07:00If your job is turning sentences around in your he...If your job is turning sentences around in your head all day you become excruciatingly sensitive to faulty or even weak sentence structure. Which means that in conversation you frequently revise internally, a major impediment to fluency.ricpichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01321511130788764861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40460030712163408412009-09-28T15:58:59.055-07:002009-09-28T15:58:59.055-07:00"Comedians and politicians make horrible writ..."Comedians and politicians make horrible writers. Comedians become unfunny (Garrison Keillor) and politicians incredibly self-absorbed(Obama)."<br /><br />This may well be true on average, but I just thought of a counter-example. A few years ago I picked up a book by Dennis Miller in the discount bin at a Barnes & Noble. Couldn't put it down, ended up buying it and reading it whole. I think I enjoyed it more than I ever did listening to him on TV.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67481511967076017152009-09-28T15:43:19.118-07:002009-09-28T15:43:19.118-07:00I'm an appellate lawyer, and have been for a c...I'm an appellate lawyer, and have been for a couple of decades. The next time I drive back to the office after an oral argument without thinking of a brilliant riposte to a judge's question that I wish had occurred to me in time will be the first.Jim Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912710881278409532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7301660395295616732009-09-28T15:12:33.163-07:002009-09-28T15:12:33.163-07:00I'm with Pinker on this one, writing isn't...I'm with Pinker on this one, writing isn't in real time.<br /><br />Still, writing makes me a better speaker. Hash it out enough times in print and it becomes rote and you can summon it quickly in real time.<br /><br />I think Nabokov is the exception.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26957354981023914212009-09-28T11:00:56.293-07:002009-09-28T11:00:56.293-07:00I'm not sure Nabokov is the best example since...I'm not sure Nabokov is the best example since English was not his native language.my two centsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25831888811715133502009-09-28T10:36:18.176-07:002009-09-28T10:36:18.176-07:00Steve, this contrast between deliberate thinking a...Steve, this contrast between deliberate thinking and on-your-toes thinking extends to areas other than writing. And I imagine there's a HBD element involved. Take a completely different area of expertise - driving. Some cultures like the Germans aren't great at thinking on their toes, so they create elaborate systems of rules and infrastructure so that they wont have to. Stop lights, limited access freeways, rules for passing - all of these things are focused on reducing the amount of immediate decision making that will be needed. Whereas southeast asia has few or none of those things, and all the different combinations imaginable of pedestrians, bicycles, cars, trucks, and farm animals. To a German that is a very stressful driving experience. But to a southeast asian, it's not so bad - you just have to immerse yourself in the reality of the moment, not the construct of the rules. <br /><br />A lot of American industry is based on the same principles. Like they used to say about the Navy or the Phone system: "built by geniuses to be run by dummies". Deep thought in advance to avoid thinking on the spot.Chief Seattlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17975479922350884102009-09-28T10:33:10.182-07:002009-09-28T10:33:10.182-07:00Is this line of argument just another way to save ...Is this line of argument just another way to save your Obama had no ghost writer thesis?<br /><br />Must of the electorate today expects a published politician to have had a ghost writer. This is especially true when the writing is better than the speaking. This seems to describe Obama. He is famous for his eloquence as a reader of a tele-prompter. No one pretends that Obama writes those speechs that scroll in front of his face when he is on a podium. Many have noticed that when he is off the prompter he is not particularly eloquent or well informed.<br /><br />So the suspicion arose that Obama didn't write the books published under his name. I hired you to investigate this issue (that means I bought your book).<br /><br />You have become identified with the theory that Obama is a highly talented author and that his writings offer a window into his soul.<br /><br />You are a professional author but have only published the one book. If the central thesis of that book - that <i>Dreams of my Father</i> is the way to understand Obama - is wrong, your reputation and credibility must suffer. <br /><br />This posting seems like another attempt to support your stance that Obama is primarily a literary being. You may be right or you may be wrong. Right now it looks as if Obama had Bill Ayers as a ghost. I don't know of course but the arguments based on internal evidence and a lot of speculation seems to currently favor the critics. <br /><br />The idea that good writers are poor speakers is at best "not proven". There are four classes: good writers but poor speakers, poor writers but good speakers, good witers and good speakers, poor witers and poor speakers. If anyone has investigated these classes I am unaware of the results. You only provide anecdotes.albertosaurushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13209465319904999278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49914973706833001292009-09-28T10:21:09.271-07:002009-09-28T10:21:09.271-07:00Reminds me of interviewers who discovered that P.G...Reminds me of interviewers who discovered that P.G. Wodehouse was not witty at all in person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41212101341260367062009-09-28T06:52:58.315-07:002009-09-28T06:52:58.315-07:00"These days, I don't have the kind of mem..."These days, I don't have the kind of memory left where I can work out a long chain of argument in my head. I have to put my flickering thoughts down on screen right away before they go away."<br /><br />Why write stuff like this? You frighten the young. I.E.....Me. <br /><br />dkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87387292345079205282009-09-28T05:02:08.090-07:002009-09-28T05:02:08.090-07:00"How do I know what I think until I see what ..."How do I know what I think until I see what I say?"<br /><br />-E. M. Forster. I used to like that quote, except that it really should go, "How do I know what I think until I read what I wrote..." But that doesn't cut any ice in our loquacious --to put it kindly--culture.<br /><br />Saul Bellow delivered a great interview to the Paris Review sometime in the mid-1960s; he asked for a transcript of the initial conversations, and heavily revised this before publication. This seems a neat way to do it. <br /><br />I've found that keeping a journal has been tremendously illuminating. When I don't write, it's almost as if I don't know what has happened. <br /><br />Somewhat related to this, I read a long article somewhere a few years ago about how different people are good at assimilating information either through listening or through reading. And one reason to explain the failure of some recent presidents--I think JFK was an example?--was that they were better at listening and only got written reports, or the other way around. I don't think I read it here, because I only discovered this place a few months ago...Jerrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11236243237724849502009-09-28T04:01:19.042-07:002009-09-28T04:01:19.042-07:00"...and people capable of telling great stori..."...and people capable of telling great stories waddle like ducks out of water when they attempt to write." <br /><br />Reading the transcript of a 'great speech' or witty monologue is usually a disappointment. Comedians and politicians make horrible writers. Comedians become unfunny (Garrison Keillor) and politicians incredibly self-absorbed(Obama). With speech, delivery is 50% (+/-).<br /><br />Then there are writers who try to duplicate the halting, rambling, cliche-ridden pattern of conversational speech. I find this style of writing annoying, but some are able to build a lucrative career on it (Thomas Friedman).lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12390177671454109702009-09-28T03:59:46.559-07:002009-09-28T03:59:46.559-07:00Part of the difference between a "personality...Part of the difference between a "personality" and a writer is just quickness. The French have an expression, "l'esprit de lescalier", or "the spirit of the stairs," which refers to how one thinks of an appropriate response on the way down the stairs after a dinner party, rather than at the dinner, when it would have been timely. People who are witty in person are just better at coming up with stuff on the spot. <br /><br />I've often found, however, that when these wits set their thoughts down on paper, they don't sound nearly as intelligent as real writers -- who don't sound nearly as intelligent in person. <br /><br />A big part of the difference may have to do with inhibitions. People who are shyer by nature are constantly censoring themselves in various ways, and it's harder to come up with good material when in that frame of mind. When you're lying on your back with a laptop perched on your chest at 6:30AM with no one else around, the thought flow much more freely. And writers are by nature more solitary creatures; "personalities" by nature want more social contact.John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66377896842816432972009-09-28T03:45:47.036-07:002009-09-28T03:45:47.036-07:00Has there been any studies between the people who ...Has there been any studies between the people who write exactly like they talk and those who use entirely different speech patterns?<br /><br />From an example from pop culture, Siskel and Ebert were both very entertaining on their show and both had interesting insights, but Ebert's written reviews were always much, much better written than Siskel's. I always thought that was strange.Kevin Knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30611743448900207202009-09-28T01:24:15.951-07:002009-09-28T01:24:15.951-07:00The same thought occurred to me thirty odd years a...The same thought occurred to me thirty odd years ago when I saw a famous writer being interviewed on a TV show. He set new standards for being inarticulate.<br /><br />I find that it's much easier to lie to myself (ignore counter arguments, etc) in voice than in text.Stephen Dawsonhttp://www.hifi-writer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84352845230227606782009-09-27T23:38:08.320-07:002009-09-27T23:38:08.320-07:00How do I know what I think until I see what I say?...How do I know what I think until I see what I say?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758584002044225327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60453947320012777932009-09-27T23:06:50.318-07:002009-09-27T23:06:50.318-07:00on a similar note, I find typing easier than voice...on a similar note, I find typing easier than voice input, even though voice input has improved tremendously and I'm a terrible typist. Perhaps the slower pace of typing has something to do with it or maybe the sound of my own voice is distracting....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52890940726649420882009-09-27T22:19:17.977-07:002009-09-27T22:19:17.977-07:00So your radio interview didn't go so well? I c...So your radio interview didn't go so well? I couldn't get the streaming software to work.robert61noreply@blogger.com