tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4607848630151810752..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Getting cynical in my old ageUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52442622831218618522011-03-08T14:30:44.690-08:002011-03-08T14:30:44.690-08:00JSM:
NO. You are NOT going to force my smart kid ...JSM:<br /><br /><i>NO. You are NOT going to force my smart kid to spend 7 hours a day in school tutoring dumb kids.</i><br /><br />Most of these dumb kids shouldn't be in school anyway, even vocational school. They should be out on the street, or playing their precious sports 24/7, or working as chimney sweeps.<br /><br /><i>I do NOT need my smart kid's head bashed in by a dumb, and jealous, and ungrateful, and resentful, non-White kid.</i><br /><br />I don't want <b>my</b> six-year-old smart kid's head bashed in either, nor do I want him to be swallowed whole by some 17 year old roid mutant (of <b>any</b> race) who should be doing manly work such as clearing minefields in Iraq - rather than being cooped up in clasroom with "faggy little munchkins".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81792320262911968122011-03-08T14:17:39.273-08:002011-03-08T14:17:39.273-08:00A big problem with school that is often overlooked...<i>A big problem with school that is often overlooked is that we sort kids out solely by age, so they have no interaction with kids of other ages. That's stupid. Kids can often best learn a skill from other kids who have just gone through the process of learning it, and the more advanced kids get their knowledge reinforced by teaching.</i><br /><br />That is a double-edged sword.<br /><br />One of the reasons for age segregation is to protect the younger, physically smaller and weaker, children. Even with age segregation, schools have a poor record of such proection.<br /><br />It is nice when kids get to interact with kids of other ages - but schools are not extended families. Leave that to actual families, and to adult-supervised special interest groups.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23049838434386513822011-03-08T14:11:18.535-08:002011-03-08T14:11:18.535-08:00Thrasymachus said...
Education is mostly seen as ...Thrasymachus said...<br /><br /><i>Education is mostly seen as a group socialization process anyway.</i><br /><br />That's really all that public education has been for the last 65 years, plus some overpackaged trivia that passes as "academics".<br /><br />(That's right, trivia. The academic knowledge passed on by educators is basically a collection of pre-packaged facts and factoids. No deep knowledge. No critical thinking.)<br /><br /><i>Children can learn indivicually, but they can't be indoctrinated individually. To make somebody believe something that is clearly wrong, you have to make them see that there are social consequences for it.</i><br /><br />IOW, create an artificial culture of shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18718116772742822042011-03-07T10:36:09.465-08:002011-03-07T10:36:09.465-08:00Surely by now we would know if Computer assisted e...Surely by now we would know if Computer assisted education really worked, don't you think? People have been experimenting with this concept for 30-40 years by now -- where's the big payoff? Do you really think that some big idea is just around the corner here -- which idea has until now escaped the imaginations of the thousands or tens of thousands of developers who have toiled in the field of educational software?<br /><br />Honestly, this is just another fad that we can add to the long list of failures in the area of supposedly breakthrough reforms.<br /><br />How about the idea that education is hard, both for student and teacher, and that we're not terribly far away from the asymptote of what we might ever achieve here, given the students we have on our hands?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5869717826187036532011-03-07T10:05:20.911-08:002011-03-07T10:05:20.911-08:00"My guess is, this [Internet access to advanc...<i>"My guess is, this [Internet access to advanced knowledge] will be a huge inequality amplifier. Smarter kids will learn more every day than dumber kids, at least assuming some combination of discipline and interestingness-of-material, and the more you know and understand, the more you can learn."</i><br /><br />With all due respect, I think you've missed a key point. You need to assume not only a combination of discipline and interesting material but continued accessibility. <br /><br />Years ago, I used to look up my favorite literature online and then read profs' lectures, or even their syllabi and study questions. I learned some useful background that made me enjoy what I read even more. But I notice that increasingly these aren't available. Maybe they're in some other format.<br /><br />The continued dumbing down of so many curricula should give you pause. There's a reason for that and it's not so bright students will seem or become brighter. I wouldn't be surprised if general access to advanced knowledge became increasingly restricted or just fell into the memory hole.<br /><br />In short, I think you're overly optimistic.Kylienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23511581322215684112011-03-07T08:41:13.897-08:002011-03-07T08:41:13.897-08:00Who needs AI when there are Indians?
http://www.b...Who needs AI when there are Indians?<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11452881<br /><br />From the above link:<br /><br />“Pupils at a north London primary school have been improving their maths - thanks to the internet which has put them in touch with teachers thousands of miles away in India.”<br /><br />But the teachers’ unions don’t think this is a good solution. For some reason.<br /><br />“Tutors and pupils may be enthusiastic about the scheme, but teachers' unions have criticised it, saying schools should focus their resources on empowering classroom teachers to raise standards.”Haroldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75363506844960701222011-03-07T08:23:22.542-08:002011-03-07T08:23:22.542-08:00And yet, common sense says that information techno...<i>And yet, common sense says that information technology offers the main hope of us ever being able to afford on a mass scale the one educational tool that works more often than anything else, especially with math: individualized tutoring.</i><br /><br />Art Jensen had a similar idea about individualized tutoring (by computers), which, I believe, can be found in "The g Factor and the Design of Education" here:<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=gTP05XkjiR8C&oi=fnd&pg=PA111&ots=zkyAogXIVX&sig=SfjjXp6VCrDfLZM6HPRGQ8Eelrg#v=onepage&q&f=falseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41838375343735733022011-03-06T20:11:26.896-08:002011-03-06T20:11:26.896-08:00Computerized education has had a huge impact on me...Computerized education has had a huge impact on me, from college on. That's not software to teach me some subject, but rather access to experts, papers, summaries, blogs, and discussions about whatever subject I want to study. Podcasts and iTunes U are utterly amazing--you can basically sit in on classes from MIT and various other places, for free. <br /><br />Extending this to kids in school means making it more accessible. I think that's certain to happen. And as it does, we will get a natural experiment about Flynn's feedback-loop hypothesis explaining the Flynn effect. (His idea is basically that smarter people select more intellectually stimulating environments, and so get still smarter.) My guess is, this will be a huge inequality amplifier. Smarter kids will learn more every day than dumber kids, at least assuming some combination of discipline and interestingness-of-material, and the more you know and understand, the more you can learn.<br /><br />Assuming the basic HBD view of the world is right, that will make the racial differences much bigger and more obvious, as the kids shooting up through the stratosphere will be overwhelmingly Asian or white. Assuming the unconscious discrimination model of the world is right, the previously-shut-out black and brown geniuses, given access to a color-blind way to push themselves, will shoot up to their rightful places. That's another natural experiment, one I hope we make soon.none of the abovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47258030143719050902011-03-06T15:13:38.821-08:002011-03-06T15:13:38.821-08:00I don't agree that having brighter students tu...I don't agree that having brighter students tutor slower students never works. It all depends on the students of each ilk being chosen. Canny teachers choose patient, somewhat phlegmatic bright kids to pair with earnest but dim kids. The openly hostile are left to their own malignant devices. I have personally seen many kids "get it" when they didn't before, and witnessed many honest expressions of appreciation for the assistance. The concept can and does work, but it must be controlled by a teacher who really knows his or her students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30185554726628538282011-03-06T11:55:34.307-08:002011-03-06T11:55:34.307-08:00" A retired teacher told me how suddenly one ..." A retired teacher told me how suddenly one year she had to teach three grades combined,"<br /><br />We had mixed grades in the 70's for 1st thru 3rd grade. I don't know the reason. Maybe it was talent level.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40020598832389390702011-03-06T11:52:04.902-08:002011-03-06T11:52:04.902-08:00"Frankly, all you need is a netbook that will..."Frankly, all you need is a netbook that will access the cloud while students are at school (a simple word processor and the textbooks themselves can be loaded in flash memory). A Macbook really seems like overkill."<br /><br />Do you mean just downloading the textbook on a Sony reader or Kindle? I wouldn't want to read from a PC for a long time. Better to carry a Kindle than a big bag of books. Maybe they'll be able to write on them in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12397722380228056022011-03-06T10:35:35.615-08:002011-03-06T10:35:35.615-08:00Responding to Anonymous' question/comment: &qu...Responding to Anonymous' question/comment: "So you're saying we're now metaphysically in a maternal vs a paternal sort of world order, interesting."<br /><br />My male students who have been exposed to some element of a patriarchal order, whether at home or through some sport (boxing, for example) are significantly better behaved and more disciplined that those that grew up without one. I would say in many parts (ie. blue) of the country, the maternal order of feelings, talking, self-esteem, and softness has reigned for decades now. Black males are almost exclusively raised by their mothers and grandmothers and The Rawness has amply pointed out how feminine many of them act (lack of control over emotions, obsession with outward shows of wealth and power, etc.) Go to any playground and see how inappropriate any use of masculine force is and you will quickly see how maternal our culture is.Pseudonymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01022773616548085373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12126682275606989552011-03-05T20:32:17.230-08:002011-03-05T20:32:17.230-08:00For kids who want to learn, you want orderly, step...For kids who want to learn, you want orderly, step by step instruction. With no distracting Sesame Street junk.<br /><br />And this is being delivered - for free via Youtube - by Sal Khan (of the "Khan Academy"). To his credit, Bill G has provided some funding to Sal. <br /><br />Of course, this approach will mean that kids will learn at different rates. <br /><br />Which brings me to Carol's comment that it's "a mistake to teach Algebra I in 8th grade. ... it's too abstract for them". That's probably true for some, but others can tackle algebra in year 6 and move on to calculus at, say, age 15. This notion is scarey - it would limit all the kids to the level of the slowest. <br /><br />BTW, having brighter kids teach the slower ones does not work. My mom got me a few jobs tutoring math when I was in High School. But, while I knew the math, I was hopeless at the task of teaching, ie communicating it to people who found it difficult.Felix Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26209864835749106002011-03-05T12:17:56.178-08:002011-03-05T12:17:56.178-08:00"Ontologically, my students (and I) have no c..."Ontologically, my students (and I) have no concept of a patriarchal order, and all grew up in an era where one's feelings are equally, if not more, important than one's ability. "<br /><br />So you're saying we're now metaphysically in a maternal vs a paternal sort of world order, interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-85473046954122092242011-03-05T11:48:32.501-08:002011-03-05T11:48:32.501-08:00"A big problem with school that is often over..."A big problem with school that is often overlooked is that we sort kids out solely by age, ...Let the smart older kids teach the smart younger kids."<br /><br />Oh, horseshit. Where have you been? Schools tried that 20 years ago. Even here in flyover. A retired teacher told me how suddenly one year she had to teach three grades combined, for the same stupid reasons you cite, and it was fucking chaos. There is a big difference in maturity year to year at that level. And as someone said above, where is the justice in making the smart teach the stupid and maybe dangerous?<br /><br />You need to learn more about the plethora of progressive ed fads the schools have been through, the last 40 years, before you go handing out advice.<br /><br />What pisses me off is that our legislators are just as ignorant.Carolnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86095148409239447872011-03-05T02:02:42.924-08:002011-03-05T02:02:42.924-08:00"Tutoring doesn't have to be expensive if...<i>"Tutoring doesn't have to be expensive if it replaces school rather than supplements it. For the $10,000 or so we spend per student on schools, you could pay for four hours of tutoring per week for thirty-six weeks and still have a couple of grand left over for books, software, sports or activity fees, etc. And that's paying fifty bucks an hour for tutoring; you could hire a pretty good tutor for fifty bucks an hour. You wouldn't have to pay for schoolhouses, vice-principals, secretaries, principals, or any of the other stuff the schools waste money on. (Tutors could provide their own office space.)"</i><br /><br />Combine RGH's idea with Steve's idea about retired Army or Marine NCOs and you've got something.Frednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7854628811526482342011-03-04T21:56:16.412-08:002011-03-04T21:56:16.412-08:00jesus having read the comments, with a few excepti...jesus having read the comments, with a few exceptions this post really drew the intensely clueless geek crowd...guys, save your Linux and Mac lectures for the people who care, which would be nobodyUdolpho.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12976984423336975944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36066296686548791892011-03-04T21:17:29.991-08:002011-03-04T21:17:29.991-08:00> What's harder is getting the computer to...> <i> What's harder is getting the computer to figure out why the student gets wrong a problem at his appropriate level. Yet, that's not an impossible task in math, where there are a finite number of ways to screw up. </i><br /><br />I've posted this before, but for algebra, it's been done: http://www.stuckonalgebra.com/soapositive.html<br /><br />he doesn't specify it there but, he was a tutor for a few years, and knew what mistakes kids made. His software figures it out and helps accordingly. [I'm not associated with him, I just think it's cool. I wish there was similar software for topology :) ].rainy_dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14988377881664865258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10625128457714422562011-03-04T21:16:39.043-08:002011-03-04T21:16:39.043-08:00Computers in the classroom will fix all our proble...Computers in the classroom will fix all our problems, right after overhead projectors in the classroom, slideshows in the classroom, film projectors in the classroom, and televisions in the classroom.<br /><br />But hey it's free money right? We can afford to spend it on untested, expensive, rapidly depreciating resources.Udolpho.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12976984423336975944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24360331425011593572011-03-04T20:20:21.180-08:002011-03-04T20:20:21.180-08:00First of all, I really like Whiskey's take on ...First of all, I really like Whiskey's take on why Bill started the Gates Foundation.<br /><br />To add, it should be obvious to all that the Gates Foundation is basically a tax scam. This is just another non-profit hedge fund that gets to keep the difference between what it disburses as required by law and what it earns through various investments...while allowing family members to draw huge salaries in perpetuity as directors. <br /><br />It will never solve any problems because it was never meant to solve any problems.<br /><br />As far as math tutorial programs go, what happened to MathXpert? That seemed like a viable solution.mapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22927759903891466542011-03-04T17:37:03.935-08:002011-03-04T17:37:03.935-08:00"The best thing Bill Gates could do would be ..."The best thing Bill Gates could do would be to fund 'Steve Jobs High'. Where Steve designs the school, .... Liberal Arts meets Tech."<br /><br />LOL. Keep both of them away from the kids, please. Gates had his one big moment with MSDOS license to PCs. He's done NOTHING of value since, and even that is questionable. Jobs great accomplishment is stylizing and feminizing tech. Making tech fashion accessories. He's done nothing else.Peter Kanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998490567229724445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36891913955609865752011-03-04T17:27:31.078-08:002011-03-04T17:27:31.078-08:00Dan Kurt makes excellent points, none of which I d...Dan Kurt makes excellent points, none of which I disagree with in any way, and I thank him for exposing me to Sayer's essay, something I have not come across, though I have come across Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed multiple times in grad school ed classes. I only want to add two points, one ontological and the other material.<br /><br />Materially, schools would be much much better if you took say, 90% of women in professional fields (law, scientific research, medicine, computer science, etc.) and had them teach, which was essentially what was happening until those careers were opened up to women. Those people are hardworking, disciplined, and in the upper echelon of human intelligence. I, on the other hand, went to a 2nd tier private university, am lazy, and undisciplined. I have taught kids who have their pick of tier one Ivy and near Ivy league schools, and most of them would be wasting their time teaching.<br /><br />Ontologically, my students (and I) have no concept of a patriarchal order, and all grew up in an era where one's feelings are equally, if not more, important than one's ability. In my school, there is an entire multiple room for the students to go to when they are not feeling good, emotionally, of course, and I would be seen as some sort insensitive, antiquated tyrant to keep them from going there. They would probably throw a temper tantrum, and I would end up having to fill out all sorts of paperwork, and end up apologizing (in both senses) for my actions. <br /><br />Watching 5 minutes of any reality television show makes it blatantly obvious that we no longer live in a shame culture; vices, both venial and moral, are readily celebrated on television. <br /><br />I have taught at test-in magnet schools, and the quality of the teachers is definitely higher (though not what I imagine it was in Mr. Kurt's time), and the discipline and intelligence of the students was an order of magnitude higher, the ontology was the same. <br /><br />My opinions about class size et al. come from my experience of being within the world (to borrow some vague, Heidegger jargon) with sufficient education and intuition to see the current beneath the surface. Mr. Kurt is correct in every way, but the values and state of being his world had is as discordant with the current world as the Roman world would have been with his.Pseudonymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01022773616548085373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24504165188409674942011-03-04T17:24:20.393-08:002011-03-04T17:24:20.393-08:00What Bostonian said.
Plus: a large purpose of &qu...What Bostonian said.<br /><br />Plus: a large purpose of "public school" is simply to babysit or incarcerate, depending on age. Google John Taylor Gatto and see what this prize-winning teacher had to say about the reasons "public school" was created in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42727784479738421612011-03-04T16:57:52.835-08:002011-03-04T16:57:52.835-08:00I think a good idea would be to assign to the &quo...I think a good idea would be to assign to the "star" teachers an assistant who would help with discipline. When I was in high school and college I did quite a bit of math tutoring and I think I would make a good lecturer. <br />What turns me off from the idea of teaching math to a classroom of kids is the need to constantly maintain discipline. An assistant who would help with the wayward individuals would free the instructor to focus on the subject matter rather than behavior.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84347173616791429792011-03-04T16:42:38.667-08:002011-03-04T16:42:38.667-08:00"Steve Jobs will be at Apple until he dies.&q...<i>"Steve Jobs will be at Apple until he dies."</i><br /><br />So another six weeks?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com