tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4653798942597663791..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Campus newsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64220986425142531352011-07-16T22:43:38.364-07:002011-07-16T22:43:38.364-07:00"Everyone knows that at Harvard if you bother..."Everyone knows that at Harvard if you bother to show up to class you'll get some sort of A."<br /><br />Well I guess a lot depends on who's doing the showing up. True story, Harvard seminar in a semi-obscure branch of literature, over 20 years ago...<br /><br />PROFESSOR: ...which leads us to an interesting paradox. You! Sleepy guy in the back there! What's your opinion of all this?<br /><br />ME: I'm very sorry professor, but the truth is, I don't have an opinion because I haven't even read the novel yet.<br /><br />PROFESSOR: Well why didn't you read it?<br /><br />ME: Because I've been really really busy directing a Shakespeare play.<br /><br />PROFESSOR: (laughs) Well why didn't you say so before? Come and see me during office hours, and we'll talk about Shakespeare instead!<br /><br />See, people at Harvard are intellectual grown-ups. Or at least they used to be, I haven't seen the place in over a decade. The alumni magazine sometimes has me deeply worried, sometimes not.<br /><br />PS -- and yes, I got an A in the course, after submitting a well-researched and (ostensibly) insightful paper that had the professor asking me serious questions back, about his own field. Spotty attendance though. And no, I never did read that novel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73956628663821629152011-07-16T21:16:41.851-07:002011-07-16T21:16:41.851-07:00"Being female is not worth a "grade"..."Being female is not worth a "grade" in the humanities. There are too manty females majoring there. If anything, I'd say males are more likely to be favored."<br /><br />"Would you now? And what would you base that on?"<br /><br />Oh, I don't know, Anonymous. Just a hunch based on subjective observation and opinion, to which you appear to be no stranger. What did the pot call the kettle? Black? Spotted? Fuschia?<br /> Multiple choice is what has ruined education.<br /><br />Maybe it was the special attention the cute, articulate guys got in my lady professor's class. Also in my gay professors' classes come to think of it.<br /><br />When I was in college there were a couple of professors who were noted for going down a letter if the student was female. This was a small college. No one tried to prove it though; it could not have been proven anymore than you can prove they'd go up a grade for a girl. It was just a fact of life that some professors favored guys. Nobody questioned that that occurred occasionally and nobody thought of litigation. You learned to appreciate appreciative teachers who looked at the mind, and only the mind, which is their job and why they are there.<br /><br />"In any case, there is more than 75 years of pre-1964 college grading culture, where you could easily do research on the average scores and grades of men and women in each subject, in colleges and universities throughout the U.S."<br /><br />"Yeah, there are. And the evidence indicates that modern women in college are given a big boost by their professors."<br /><br />"Yeah, there are." Not too convincing, Anonymous. I'd have to read them myself. Always frustrating because you know as soon as you finish, somebody's going to wave one in your face that proves just the opposite.<br />I brought up pre-1964 college grading as a way to determine the average grades of men and women before "inflation." By looking at those grades, and looking at current grades, you might get an idea of inflation by gender. Such a "study" might be worth doing and might actually get at the truth. <br /><br />But that comparison of white female grades to black and hispanic was just absurd.dcitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45988557472078862272011-07-16T18:44:31.814-07:002011-07-16T18:44:31.814-07:00The other system, grading on a curve, is used in m...<i>The other system, grading on a curve, is used in many American colleges.</i><br /><br />Heh. In my Alma Mater the nuclear engineering department (thank God I went EE) used a hybrid system. They graded on a curve, but there was also a feeling of "You're going to design nuclear power plants, so you need to know this." One year they flunked every student in a required class, meaning nobody graduated from that department until the following year.<br /><br />The real shame was nobody designed nuclear power plants for the next 25 years anyway. May as well have just passed them.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86049737015086780412011-07-16T15:29:38.476-07:002011-07-16T15:29:38.476-07:00It all sounds like sinecures for nice but unproduc...<i>It all sounds like sinecures for nice but unproductive people.</i> <br /><br />Except that [in reality] they are mean* and anti-productive people.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />*I'm not kidding about the mean-ness, either: I've spent my entire lfe in college towns, surrounded by these libtarded SWPL nihilists, and they'd sell their own grandmothers into Muslim sex slavery if they thought it would help them get a leg up on a grant application.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45230917631849915262011-07-16T13:13:29.933-07:002011-07-16T13:13:29.933-07:00Here's an interesting question:what should tes...Here's an interesting question:what should testing measure?<br /><br />Should it measure mastery of the subject matter? if so then the students should not be in competition with each other at all. It would be perfectly possible for <i>every</i> student to get a A, or for every student to get an F. A students grade is not dependent, for good or ill, on the performance of other students.<br /><br />The other system, grading on a curve, is used in many American colleges. This means that a certain percentage of the students will get an A, and a certain percentage will get a D ... <i>regardless of their mastery of the subject matter.</i> The smartest person in a class full of dunces will be an A student. Meanwhile a very intelligent person in a class full of very <i>very</i> intelligent people will be a D student. <br /><br />Another problem with testing in US colleges is that it's not blind. The graders know the people they are grading, making it easy to award or deduct marks for non-academic reasons such as race.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13659806496078891242011-07-16T12:53:22.852-07:002011-07-16T12:53:22.852-07:00At good public universities, getting an A still ta...<i>At good public universities, getting an A still takes work, but not too much. Only 30% of the class will get an A.</i> <br /><br />Depends on the college and the course being taken within that college. In Queens College NY the math and science depts will not allow more than 10% to score an A.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30218535648900542162011-07-16T12:50:07.190-07:002011-07-16T12:50:07.190-07:00Male and female IQs and acadmic performance in the...<i>Male and female IQs and acadmic performance in the 115 to 140 area </i> <br /><br />What are you talking about? IQ? Grades have little to do with IQ, especially in the social sciences and humanities.<br /><br /><br /><i>Being female is not worth a "grade" in the humanities. There are too manty females majoring there. If anything, I'd say males are more likely to be favored.</i> <br /><br />Would you now? And what would you base that on?<br /><br /><br /><i>Women have always been pretty strong academically in non-hard science courses and have not needed much affirmative action.</i> <br /><br />I don't know whether they "need" it or not. They certainly do get it though. Male college students have slightly better SAT scores then the females, indicating slightly higher IQ. Yet the females do significantly better in college. <br /><br /><i>In any case, there is more than 75 years of pre-1964 college grading culture, where you could easily do research on the average scores and grades of men and women in each subject, in colleges and universities throughout the U.S.</i> <br /><br />Yeah, there are. And the evidence indicates that modern women in college are given a big boost by their professors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21854198544051565782011-07-16T11:21:08.914-07:002011-07-16T11:21:08.914-07:00" Being a female is worth about one entire le..." Being a female is worth about one entire letter grade in non-scientific courses. I have to assume that brown skin is at least that valuable."<br /><br />B.S. Male and female IQs and acadmic performance in the 115 to 140 area (where most grad students fall) are not worth a "whole grade" except in the hard sciences. <br />Being female is not worth a "grade" in the humanities. There are too manty females majoring there. If anything, I'd say males are more likely to be favored. Also, if there is any inflation on behalf of females, it is more likely to be -- mildly -- in the hard sciences. During the 70s, when women were still unusual in law school, they got lower grades because of a tendency not to be as agressive verbally. That may have changed. Probably has.<br />When I worked in the American Studies Dept. of a large private university, a recruiting guy came in and talked about getting the "best man" for the job (circa 1982). The prof, no pc hack, replied that most of the strongest students were female and the guy just explained that "best man" was a figure of speech and he meant whoever was the best for the job.<br /><br />Women have always been pretty strong academically in non-hard science courses and have not needed much affirmative action. To compare a middle to upper class female with a black or hispanic of either gender (and I speak strictly statistically) is absurd.<br />In any case, there is more than 75 years of pre-1964 college grading culture, where you could easily do research on the average scores and grades of men and women in each subject, in colleges and universities throughout the U.S.dcitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86212248688123539922011-07-16T07:29:07.846-07:002011-07-16T07:29:07.846-07:00Regarding grade inflation, I remember a grad schoo...Regarding grade inflation, I remember a grad school professor of mine giving me a short history of it. After Sputnik in the early fifties, grade DEFLATION actually occured, especially among science and engineering departments, as the prevailing wisdom at the time was that the US was falling behind the Soviets. The late sixties and early seventies saw major grade inflation, as professors were afraid giving a poor grade to a student might result in a de facto death sentence for him (i.e. being drafted into the Vietnam War). At the time I was in grad school - the early 90's - there was still some of that mentality left, but for the most part grade inflation had leveled off. Now it looks like it's coming back in spades.Hapalong Cassidynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8479471981662460902011-07-15T22:52:43.193-07:002011-07-15T22:52:43.193-07:00I remember David Brooks's "amazing" ...I remember David Brooks's "amazing" creativeperson whom he designated "she" without explanation. When I hear the word "amazing", I reach for my revolver.Londonernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89660014666821403202011-07-15T22:31:31.390-07:002011-07-15T22:31:31.390-07:00http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2011/07/fucking-...http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2011/07/fucking-honor-student.html<br /><br />Read the comments. Freaking hilarious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44910048764615222512011-07-15T21:56:36.478-07:002011-07-15T21:56:36.478-07:00"...so they send in another check for another..."...so they send in another check for another $50,000 worth of college for Junior, but they don't realize that a 3.00 is more like a 1.00 in the bad old days."<br /><br />Then again, that $50,000 now is more like a $10,000 in the bad old days, so it sort of evens out.DanJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3244667521318722622011-07-15T21:45:04.842-07:002011-07-15T21:45:04.842-07:00"My daughter, who was National Honor Society ..."My daughter, who was National Honor Society in high school, busted her tail to graduate with a B- GPA."<br /><br />LOL she didn't tell you about all the frat parties.<br /><br />As long as you understand the nuances of grade inflation I don't think it harms anyone.<br /><br />Everyone knows that at Harvard/most of the Ivies if you bother to show up to class you'll get some sort of A. They're trying to get donations, after all.<br /><br />At good public universities, getting an A still takes work, but not too much. Only 30% of the class will get an A.<br /><br />There are a few random hardass schools that haven't allowed their grades to inflate too much (like the Berkeley engineering school), but I'm sure most grad school admissions people are aware of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53977080377319570592011-07-15T21:02:53.739-07:002011-07-15T21:02:53.739-07:00Well, here's the link to the College of Ethnic...Well, here's the link to the <a href="http://www.sfsu.edu/~ethnicst/" rel="nofollow">College of Ethnic Studies</a> at CSU San Francisco. It has 4 departments: Africana Studies, American Indian Studies, Asian American Studies, and Raza Studies. Over 40 faculty members with the rank of assistant professor or above.<br /><br />Incidentally, the Engineering and Computer Science departments at CSUSF combined have only about 33 faculty members.<br /><br />If the govenrment of California is to do the right thing, then the local business community needs to force them to realize that more ehtnic studies grads isn't the way to go. Of course they're busy recruiting over in Hyderabad, so they probably don't really give a shit...Jack Aubreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51900668233735468312011-07-15T20:10:44.662-07:002011-07-15T20:10:44.662-07:00By cousin's daughter goes to CPSLO.
Big class...By cousin's daughter goes to CPSLO.<br /><br />Big class sizes, though, and not enough on-campus housing. But, it's kind of like BYU in showing that you can run a pretty good at a fairly low budget.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21250690273752919942011-07-15T20:08:37.534-07:002011-07-15T20:08:37.534-07:00Cal Poly SLO -- no racial preferences (banned by P...Cal Poly SLO -- no racial preferences (banned by Prop. 209) and no holistic application either (the rest of the Cal States aren't worth doing holistic admissions over, so CPSLO doesn't have them either. This makes CPSLO a rare a highly desirable school with no thumb on the scale.)Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20234686277976709932011-07-15T20:05:16.713-07:002011-07-15T20:05:16.713-07:00No one seems to have told the professors at Cal Po...No one seems to have told the professors at Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo. My daughter, who was National Honor Society in high school, busted her tail to graduate with a B- GPA. Of course the other Californians have characterized the school as White, Christian and Republican. And they have a great Rodeo team. Way out of step in the Golden State. No wonder her freshman class of just over 4,000 started with over 27,000 applicants.Mark Royerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09629451687418698311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64344577323233702252011-07-15T18:31:51.664-07:002011-07-15T18:31:51.664-07:00The most corrosive thing about grading in American...The most corrosive thing about grading in American colleges is not that everyone gets easy grades, it's that the grade you get in many individual courses is heavily dependent on your race, sex, ethnicity, class, and political beliefs. Being a female is worth about one entire letter grade in non-scientific courses. I have to assume that brown skin is at least that valuable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51772417789558384502011-07-15T18:10:46.846-07:002011-07-15T18:10:46.846-07:00Perhaps the losers are parents whose views of GPAs...<i>Perhaps the losers are parents whose views of GPAs are from pre-1968.</i> <br /><br />There are still colleges in the US where they make a point of handing out a lot of B's and C's. The good public colleges, interestingly enough, make it much harder to get a 4.0 GPA than do the "elite" Ivies. Of course the customers of the Ivies are shelling out a lot of moolah, and they're not doing that so that Jane can get a mediocre grade. For their $120,000 they expect to be told that their child is a superior specimen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40644926722013324552011-07-15T18:10:34.797-07:002011-07-15T18:10:34.797-07:00Grade inflation. Same with Moodys and AAA rating f...Grade inflation. Same with Moodys and AAA rating for subprime mortgages.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71270723011015377342011-07-15T17:42:22.093-07:002011-07-15T17:42:22.093-07:00"I don't know why you're complaining...."I don't know why you're complaining. If Jr is a liberal arts major at almost any university, the course content is crap anyway. The universities are redeeming themselves in a way by giving fake grades for diversity studies."<br /><br />I wanted to challenge such a philistine comment. But then I went through the 'disciplines'. Clearly the 'studies' courses are risible. The 'ologies' are hopelessly corrupted by PC (as Marxists might say 'doomed by their internal contradictions'. Ha!). But what about History, Literature...?<br />Well, it would depend on whether the topic de jour was 'analysis of Polish grain harvests and their effect on peasant protests in the 1840s'; and 'deconstruction of privilege in Jane Austen'.<br />That pretty much leaves Philosophy and the Classics, Languages, Music and Art History with some credibility. Interestingly, these are hardly growth areas in the modern university.<br />Gilbert P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21662249953274666002011-07-15T15:12:14.464-07:002011-07-15T15:12:14.464-07:00@Carol, above:
a few years ago I was on a BART tr...@Carol, above:<br /><br />a few years ago I was on a BART train going through Berkeley. A young black guy stepped on, and was recognized by an old acquaintance standing near me. #1 told #2 he was attending U.C.Berkeley. #2 responded with a knowing smile, "ethnic studies?"helene edwardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25991470505883803682011-07-15T14:50:53.396-07:002011-07-15T14:50:53.396-07:00Compare the chart in this post with the one here. ...Compare the chart in this post with <a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/S8HlbwOKjwI/AAAAAAAANNY/zTvzQfqmPIc/s1600/degreegap.jpg" rel="nofollow">the one here</a>. Coincidence?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50544394699124659782011-07-15T14:21:41.823-07:002011-07-15T14:21:41.823-07:00Steve asked the right question. What difference d...Steve asked the right question. What difference does it make?<br /><br />How many employers pay attention to grades? It is important for grad school, but for what else?Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73965612997701809662011-07-15T14:21:37.267-07:002011-07-15T14:21:37.267-07:00Average GPA for science/engineering majors at UC s...<i>Average GPA for science/engineering majors at UC schools is well under 3.0. Not much grade inflation there.</i><br /><br />In the late '80s when I was a UC engineering student the worst move you could make was to do a few years of engineering and then transfer to the business school.<br /><br />In engineering a "C" was a decent grade. Nothing to write home about, to be sure, but to get that grade you had to have a pretty good grasp of the subject matter. An "A" was pretty rare - only one or two percent of students in any given class would get one. Professors would normally give out one "A+" to the top performing student in all sections (my roommate, damn him).<br /><br />In the business school <i>everybody</i> got an "A". Anything less was as good as an "F", since the companies which came to interview on campus wouldn't bother with you unless you had a 4.0 average.<br /><br />I a dozen people who transferred to the business school mid-way through their second or third year, got perfect grades from then on, and ended up working at used car lots because the engineering classes weighed down their transcript. They would have been better off sticking it out on the low end of the engineering curve - even with mediocre grades you could get a job as an engineer.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.com