tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post471872396468861046..comments2024-03-15T20:52:26.967-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Great moments in neocon strategizing: Bomb Paraguay!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23966329625442374442012-02-12T11:08:03.452-08:002012-02-12T11:08:03.452-08:00"Whiskey said...
WE want cheap oil, from the..."Whiskey said...<br /><br />WE want cheap oil, from the ME, because our economy depends on it."<br /><br />And thanks to advice from nitwits like you, we are now paying an exorbitant price for our cheap oil. Where does the money come from for the vast military infrastructure necessary to secure cheap oil? Or do those drones, and humvees, and Black-hawks, and carrier groups run on Unicorn farts (to use your own stale cliche)? Oil this cheap is proving too expensive to afford.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33886078085459322652012-02-12T11:02:12.995-08:002012-02-12T11:02:12.995-08:00"Propeller Island said...
In 2004, Putin sai..."Propeller Island said...<br /><br />In 2004, Putin said that Iraq was planning terror attacks in American cities. I don't know why Putin of all people would lie about something like that, so it has a high probability of being true."<br /><br />Or perhaps Putin just wanted to goad us into embarking on a pointless military adventure that would squander american lives and resources, as indeed it did. Also, any dicking around in the middle east tends to raise the price of oil, which is advantageous to an oil exporter like Russia.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80399748778945881972012-02-11T09:45:10.337-08:002012-02-11T09:45:10.337-08:00Forget it, Steve. Israel Against the Nations in en...Forget it, Steve. Israel Against the Nations in encoded in their bloodstream. They don't call themselves Tribe for nothing. You will simply be attacked as a Nazi for your viewpoint, forever, world without end. Remember that they are still angry about stuff that happened (?) 5000 years ago. There are reasons why the WASP establishment tried for a long time to keep Jews away from official power. The problem is older than lack of a football team.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80817461754724581792012-02-11T03:28:23.534-08:002012-02-11T03:28:23.534-08:00"Krauthammer wasn't acting on orders from..."Krauthammer wasn't acting on orders from Ariel Sharon when be demanded America invade Iraq. Sharon was a smart, fairly realistic guy. Iraq was way down the list of countries he'd like America to attack."<br /><br />I think you're clearly right about neocon fantasising of themselves as Israeli action heroes in the mold of Yonatan Netanyahu -<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonatan_Netanyahu<br />- But I am unsure if their 'dual loyality' is really about US & Israel. You must remember that their ideology is fundamentally Trotskyite, not Nationalist. Everything I've seen indicates that their ultimate loyalty is not to Israel but to the ideology of Global Democratic Transformation - revolutionary Marxism with a right-Liberal face.Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36594513019227562962012-02-10T23:08:31.866-08:002012-02-10T23:08:31.866-08:00The "empty swimming pool" crack was funn...The "empty swimming pool" crack was funny, then the local deputy Wikipedia editor here had to go & ruin itPolish submarine doornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51394919936013619562012-02-10T15:14:23.540-08:002012-02-10T15:14:23.540-08:00Obama, the most hard-left and anti-Israel Presiden...<i>Obama, the most hard-left and anti-Israel President in generations, has done so. Why?</i><br /><br />See what I meant (a few threads back I think) about what the Whiskey Caucus considers "anti-Israel"? This only serves to show that extreme "hard-left" has little real meaning in this context, and "anti-Israel" means "not extremely pro-Israel enough." Israel-firsters are <i>really</i> spoiled for choice. Dialing the volume down below an ear-splitting "10" is "inaudible."<br /><br /><i>Because killing leaders in a network dedicated to mass terror attacks on the US (to generate funds, men, following, and acclaim in the Muslim world) is the only rational action by Democratic leaders. Who wants to get blamed for not stopping an attack on say, Los Angeles, or NYC?</i><br /><br />Whiskey <i>really can't</i> help himself. I (and others) have mocked this tendency on his part (and that of many Jews) to conflate NYC/LA and the US*, but he keeps playing right into it. Of course, if he subs in Indianapolis and St. Louis we'll mock him for that, so I guess it's a lose-lose kind of situation.<br /><br />* Most elegantly encapsulated in Arsenio Hall's line in <i>Coming to America</i> (paraphrasing): "But America is so big, the choices so vast. Where should we go - Los Angeles, or New York?"<br /><br /><i>We can't simply deport all Muslims. Politically impossible. We can't simply profile -- politically impossible there too. We can't make rubble bounce in places like Afghanistan or Pakistan (a major AQ center as you noted, Osama bin Laden's protector). Politically impossible.</i><br /><br />Right. The same people who make "discrimination" and ending the race-replacement of America impossible, want us to bomb the ME (because going bankrupt is eminently politically possible). We know already, but thanks for reminding us.<br /><br /><i>Because it works! And is the only thing left within political constraints.</i><br /><br />Some of us would prefer to destroy those "political constraints," rather than treat them as sacrosanct, as you do.Svigorhttp://svigor.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28771626716856709752012-02-10T15:13:22.411-08:002012-02-10T15:13:22.411-08:00In 2004, Putin said that Iraq was planning terror ...<i>In 2004, Putin said that Iraq was planning terror attacks in American cities. I don't know why Putin of all people would lie about something like that, so it has a high probability of being true.</i><br /><br />You don't know why a pol would cut a deal and lie to sell it? My guess would be that (at least at the time), Putin was looking for some PR air cover of his own vis-a-vis terrorism. He has definitely linked his "anti-terror" efforts to America's in the past (I don't know what his position is ATM).<br /><br /><i>And the reason they have so much influence is not due to some magic Jewish juju but because Americans like being an Empire.</i><br /><br />I like how you guys all seem to be reading from the same playbook. Whiskey loves that "magic Jewish juju" stupidity, too. But people like you are the only ones saying these stupid things. So, have fun with them, I guess.<br /><br /><i>So, in the 1990s, when the Jewish oligarchs supposedly controlled Russia, you'd think the neocons would support Russia? Instead they pushed through the NATO expansion, supported the Muslim (!) Chechen rebels, and caused the bombing of Serbia.<br /><br />Sorry, your theory is still bunk.</i><br /><br />Right. Turf wars mean the mafia does not exist.<br /><br />Re Krauthammer and the empty swimming pool, a preliminary G**gle indicates that the pool was not empty. I don't see how someone could survive that. On the other hand, I don't see how someone could break their neck diving into a full swimming pool, either.<br /><br /><i>But is Israel more like a cuddly dog or a ferocious badger?<br />And even if it's like a dog, who's the master and who's the dog?</i><br /><br />If we're talking about the state of Israel, then it's the dog. But that isn't really worth talking about. The <i>nation</i> of Israel (state + diaspora), the Israel referred to between whatever B.C. and whenever it was that Zionism's state of Israel took over the term, is much closer to master than dog.<br /><br /><i>What after all did the Korean civil war or the Vietnamese Civil war have to do us? Nothing really, but the US couldn't wait to jump in & fight.</i><br /><br />True. But Vietnam really drained most of the fervor. And (heavily Jewish) media and academia were instrumental in draining that fervor.<br /><br />This is the other side of the alliance I was referring to. The Warfare State and the Nation of Israel need one another. NoI wants intervention in the ME. The Warfare State wants intervention - anywhere will do (though un-forested areas are a bonus).<br /><br /><i>Of course, the Neo-cons start it all, but the Doofus Americans always go along.</i><br /><br />Well, yeah. But we still prosecute people for fraud.Svigorhttp://svigor.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10071242156883896252012-02-10T15:04:35.669-08:002012-02-10T15:04:35.669-08:00Any self-deception or lack of conscious intent is ...<i>Any self-deception or lack of conscious intent is no excuse. It means that they're even more dangerous.</i><br /><br />Of course it isn't an excuse. It's par for the course. It's impossible to get up to the things they get up to <i>without</i> these things; smart people need really complex rationalizations, given how the game is played (i.e., via persuasion, rather than traditional authority).<br /><br /><i>It's called "plausible deniability". Also, hedging one's bets.</i><br /><br />Right. Tim Wise is my classical example. Basically, he scrawls "I oppose what Israel's doing to the Palestinians and support a two-state solution" on a bathroom wall once a year. Then the usual suspects wave this fig leaf around (but only when the audience is ANTI-SEMITIC!!!) when it suits their purposes, granting it the same weight as the door-stops he's written inveighing against the White race.<br /><br /><i>Sounds a bit like a narrative fallacy. The policy should be questioned and debated. The tangential religious/ethnic background of those debating seems a bit like visiting the deeds of the father upon the son--it inflames the debate but resolves nothing.<br />Forbes</i><br /><br />Right. Cluelessness and eternally fresh naivete as intellectual rigor.<br /><br /><i>However, we see something very different. The neocons as one foam at the mouth at the mention of the names of Putin or Chavez. They push for NATO expansion all the way to Caucasus. They advocate building missile installations in Poland. They love colored revolutions in various God-forsaken sh!tholes. They hold it as their sacred right to lecture Chinese about human right, and also to get into their faces in regards to Taiwan and Tibet. They want American troops to forever protect South Korea from North Korea. And so on, and so forth.</i><br /><br />They've thrown their lot in with the Armaments industry. Jews have a long history of packaging their interests as "universal" interests. So it's to be expected that they'll push for interventionism, because without it they can't intervene where they want to, and because to get Americans to go along they have to broaden the appeal.<br /><br />It's not like we've actually stepped things up in any of those places the way we have in central Asia.<br /><br />But pointing out that there are other players in this game doesn't really make the point you're trying to make, I think.Svigorhttp://svigor.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73371090372035219602012-02-10T14:59:56.752-08:002012-02-10T14:59:56.752-08:00What I wonder about is why so many anti-semites (S...What I wonder about is why so many anti-semites (Svigor perhaps excepted) resist the label. I mean, the point of crossover to anti-semitism line is pretty clear...it's obviously not accurately pointing out Jewish ethnic influence where it exists, like Mearsheimer and Walt* or what have you. It's the idea that the Jewish people are sinister parasites on Western civilization, a unified conspiracy to undermine and destroy the non-Jewish societies they live in, that everything you dislike about your society is somehow the fault of the Jews. (Which assumes that non-Jews, inevitably the great majority of key figures in every important decision and social movement, are incredibly weak, craven, and manipulable, but never mind). If you feel that way, why deny anti-semitism? You should stand up and be proud of it. Hell, I would hate any group that really were the way the anti-semitic crowd describes the Jews. Have the courage of your convictions and come out and say it!<br /><br />*As a note, Mearsheimer and Walt's Israel Lobby book was a NY Times best seller, showing the power of the might Jooz to repress debate).MQnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8393716534469925892012-02-10T13:27:49.774-08:002012-02-10T13:27:49.774-08:00The problem nearly every paleo has is a refusal to...The problem nearly every paleo has is a refusal to face reality. Their fantasy is we can have an economy running on oil, avoiding far WORSE social tensions, if we just got rid of those darn Israelis and "troublesome Jews." Its a fantasy. If Israel had never existed, we'd have the same damn problems.<br /><br />WE want cheap oil, from the ME, because our economy depends on it. Sure production at home, assuming the Greens/Hollywood/Silicon Valley/Media rulers don't kill it, offer long term (timeframe: 20 years out) solutions. But in the meantime, who ever dominates the Persian Gulf, and to a lesser extent the Easter Med (the Suez Canal ships lots of oil, as do pipelines) controls effectively the world price of oil.<br /><br />Our conflicts with Iraq and Saddam? Driven by oil. Our conflicts with Iran and the Ayatollahs? Driven by oil? Our conflict with Russia, Venezuela, and even China? Again driven mostly by oil. Its a scarce resource. Whoever has the most dominates, and whoever has the least loses. That's why every President since FDR inclusive has acted to preserve American naval domination of the Gulf, and Eastern Med. <br /><br />Its the oil. Simple as that. Don't like it? Get ready to move to the nearest "vibrant' inner city near you!Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82344473170892362312012-02-10T13:19:18.260-08:002012-02-10T13:19:18.260-08:00Bombing Paraguay, or rather the parts that Al Qaed...Bombing Paraguay, or rather the parts that Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and other Jihadi networks occupy is no more "off the wall" than using drones to kill AQ leaders in: Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Kenya, Pakistan, and Tanzania, all of which have happened to general acclaim under Obama.<br /><br />Obama, the most hard-left and anti-Israel President in generations, has done so. Why?<br /><br />Because killing leaders in a network dedicated to mass terror attacks on the US (to generate funds, men, following, and acclaim in the Muslim world) is the only rational action by Democratic leaders. Who wants to get blamed for not stopping an attack on say, Los Angeles, or NYC?<br /><br />We can't simply deport all Muslims. Politically impossible. We can't simply profile -- politically impossible there too. We can't make rubble bounce in places like Afghanistan or Pakistan (a major AQ center as you noted, Osama bin Laden's protector). Politically impossible.<br /><br />What IS possible is bombing, discretely, through drones, a bunch of people conspiring to kill us all over the world. They generally hang out in places with no or little law: Paraguay, and the tri-border region (known for the last 30 years as lawless and occupied by crime groups of various stripes); the Horn of Africa, Sudan, and Pakistan.<br /><br />Feith was and is entirely sensible -- even Obama copied his strategy. Because it works! And is the only thing left within political constraints.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55528466192034032462012-02-10T11:52:51.283-08:002012-02-10T11:52:51.283-08:00aaaand...the crazed anti-semite makes his mandator...<i>aaaand...the crazed anti-semite makes his mandatory appearance in an Isteve thread.</i> <br /><br /><br /><br />Do you people REALLY think that trotting out the "racist" card ... oops, the "anti-Semite card" ... serves as a useful substitute for intelligent thought? <br /><br />If you disagree with what somebody says, use facts and reason to make the case for why they are wrong. This stupid ad hom (and "anti-Semite" is nothing but ad hom) convinces no one and only serves to discredit you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40817297439005359082012-02-10T10:43:23.070-08:002012-02-10T10:43:23.070-08:00So, in the 1990s, when the Jewish oligarchs suppos...<i>So, in the 1990s, when the Jewish oligarchs supposedly controlled Russia, you'd think the neocons would support Russia? Instead they pushed through the NATO expansion, supported the Muslim (!) Chechen rebels, and caused the bombing of Serbia.</i><br /><br />Nobody really "controlled Russia" in the 90s.<br /><br />Russia was up for grabs in the 90s. Nothing was settled. <br /><br />Putin was supported by some Jewish oligarchs and looked at relatively positively by some neocons. They believed that his leadership would result in a further consolidation of their control and influence in Russia. It became clear to them, however, that Putin wasn't really a team player and would hinder or reverse some of their gains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83717974876889402562012-02-10T09:29:02.326-08:002012-02-10T09:29:02.326-08:00Thrasymachus said...
The idea that the US is a na...<i><b>Thrasymachus said...</b><br /><br />The idea that the US is a natural ally of Israel and should fight wars with it is somewhat less ridiculous than the idea that the US is a natural ally of Great Britain should fight wars with it, an idea much more viciously crammed down on America, and with much worse consequences.</i><br /><br />Wait what?Jacob Robersonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46078182205767264492012-02-10T09:26:35.692-08:002012-02-10T09:26:35.692-08:00A well written blog post. But again, the problem i...A well written blog post. But again, the problem isn't little ethnic groups trying to involve us in *their* wars, its the weird American willingness, even eagerness, to crusade and fight other people's battles around the world.<br /><br />What after all did the Korean civil war or the Vietnamese Civil war have to do us? Nothing really, but the US couldn't wait to jump in & fight.<br /><br />So this current mau-mauing of Iran is just a 21st century offshoot of that bizarre "We'll bear any burden, pay any price" JFK chest thumping, that Americans love.<br /><br />Of course, the Neo-cons start it all, but the Doofus Americans always go along.No Namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-2074960720155354452012-02-10T08:28:30.773-08:002012-02-10T08:28:30.773-08:00addendeum re: #2 and #3, nato involvement would al...addendeum re: #2 and #3, nato involvement would also work against russian ambitions and interest. And i dont think long term, nato or us involvement will only help israel for the short and intermediate term. Long term everything is too murky to tell outside of the main long term trend, which IMHO is israel will eventually be conquered by her neighbors either way regardless of anything us or europe wants or does.amithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16327968287770709707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39244980356027815972012-02-10T08:24:33.235-08:002012-02-10T08:24:33.235-08:00Douglas Feith - ALPHA!Douglas Feith - ALPHA!The Anti-Gnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386593803225823789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34580093315379869442012-02-10T08:13:47.632-08:002012-02-10T08:13:47.632-08:00That reminds me of my own paranoid conspiracy theo...<i>That reminds me of my own paranoid conspiracy theory from back then: W. was blackmailed by some Saudis to invade Iraq instead of doing the logical thing and invading their own country.</i><br /><br />I call it the Bush-WoG (Wahhabi Occupational Government) theory, and it does make some sense. And it doesn't need blackmail; Bush was a Christian Wahhabi deep at heart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49692314271157172952012-02-10T06:38:48.513-08:002012-02-10T06:38:48.513-08:00I've heard former Nazis still enjoy high level...I've heard former Nazis still enjoy high level contacts within the Argentine government and I suggest the USAF bomb Buenos Aires flat forthwith. My British identity has nothing to do with it, of course.Marlowenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21301429427262257342012-02-10T06:31:21.529-08:002012-02-10T06:31:21.529-08:00Perhaps Israel having a special relationship to Am...Perhaps Israel having a special relationship to America is inevitable. Even with animals, some--like dogs and cats--are more special to us than others. <br /><br />But is Israel more like a cuddly dog or a ferocious badger? <br />And even if it's like a dog, who's the master and who's the dog?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10989980291820255822012-02-10T00:11:59.843-08:002012-02-10T00:11:59.843-08:00"However, we see something very different. Th..."However, we see something very different. The neocons as one foam at the mouth at the mention of the names of Putin or Chavez. They push for NATO expansion all the way to Caucasus."<br />1. Because russia is a major power that has interests in middle east and have historical and political connections to middle east, which are not necessarily aligned with israel. Now given that russia aint lichtenstein and is for sure a big player on world stage is not under the influence of neocons, and in fact russia and usa takes opposite positions on many international realpolitik issues much to the displeasure of neocons. So given the likelihood of russian influence on arabs in middle east whether that be in arms, technology, political or dipolomatic support, UN support, disaster relief or whatever, russia appears to be a problem in middle east for israel and/or american hegemony worldwide. <br />2. If NATO somehow gets in involved in caucasus which means indirect and implied involvement in middle eastern politics which will only grow on the part of NATO due to the inherent inertia and complexity of middle eastern politics, who stands to gain the most from this situation if it comes to pass? European elites might not be israel firsters like american elites but they are definitely friends of israel. <br />3. Basically america as a hegemonic superpower going around the world smacking people into democratic heavens and outposts of tolerance and multicultural feminist ideology is beneficial for israel in the short term and long term.amithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16327968287770709707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12741063030182802972012-02-09T23:05:37.871-08:002012-02-09T23:05:37.871-08:00Charles Krauthammer broke his neck diving into an ...Charles Krauthammer broke his neck diving into an empty swimming pool - why would you take advice from a man who did that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81015208452673379912012-02-09T22:51:06.639-08:002012-02-09T22:51:06.639-08:00Anonymous - ""Iraq was way down the list...Anonymous - ""Iraq was way down the list of countries he'd [Sharon] like America to attack"<br /><br />But it was very high on the list of countries the Saudis wanted us to attack, as Iran is now."<br /><br />That reminds me of my own paranoid conspiracy theory from back then: W. was blackmailed by some Saudis to invade Iraq instead of doing the logical thing and invading their own country. They threatened to divulge hard evidence regarding some career-destroying piece of wankery W. had engaged in back in the day.Luke Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11290760894780619646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25430817853827778832012-02-09T22:02:01.272-08:002012-02-09T22:02:01.272-08:00Why would the neocons oppose Putin, and Russia'...<i>Why would the neocons oppose Putin, and Russia's influence under his rule? Try a search including the terms Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Abramovich, oligarchs, Jewish and Putin, and see what you come up with.</i><br /><br />So, in the 1990s, when the Jewish oligarchs supposedly controlled Russia, you'd think the neocons would support Russia? Instead they pushed through the NATO expansion, supported the Muslim (!) Chechen rebels, and caused the bombing of Serbia. <br /><br />Sorry, your theory is still bunk.Propeller Islandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35496953113066557042012-02-09T21:28:21.241-08:002012-02-09T21:28:21.241-08:00@Propeller Island
"However, we see somethi...@Propeller Island<br /> "However, we see something very different. The neocons as one foam at the mouth at the mention of the names of Putin or Chavez."<br /> <br /> Hmmm. Why would the neocons oppose Putin, and Russia's influence under his rule?<br /> Try a search including the terms Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Abramovich, oligarchs, Jewish and Putin, and see what you come up with.<br /> Then look for Amy Chua's book World on Fire.<br /> Then get a clue.Tom Regannoreply@blogger.com