tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4772518190281360378..comments2024-03-15T20:52:26.967-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Survival of the HottestUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58683216917106312462008-03-02T14:08:00.000-08:002008-03-02T14:08:00.000-08:00Have you ever noticed that when you mixed someone ...Have you ever noticed that when you mixed someone from a european background and an east asian background, provided that they are decent looking to begin with, some of their children turn out amazing good looking. Well we eastern europeans are a bit genetically east asian. This can also explain why some middle eastern or indian populations have hot women. My guess is also that some latin american women are hot because of their amerindian influence. My theory is that those populations with the hottest women have a bit of east asian influence and less of the germanic or middle eastern influence which can give you what my friend calls a "horse face".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10822211996874689372008-01-17T15:41:00.000-08:002008-01-17T15:41:00.000-08:00One reason why Eastern European women may be sligh...One reason why Eastern European women may be slightly more attractive is because they tend to be thinner.<BR/><BR/>Despite what is portrayed in fashion magazines and movies, fast food and automobiles are taking a heavy toll on the bodies of many North American and Australasian women<BR/><BR/>I'd also say that any increase in the attractiveness of western woman would have levelled-off in the 60s or 70s.<BR/><BR/>Some women may be getting more athletic looking as they spend time in the gym (and a fortune on their general appearance) but I don't think they any prettier than they were 40 or 50 years ago.<BR/><BR/>Someone like Cameron Diaz (impressive pins with a boxers nose) wouldn't have been considered particularly attractive in 1950s Hollywood.Mike Courtmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15226171376902020196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-465247520586396402008-01-16T19:00:00.000-08:002008-01-16T19:00:00.000-08:00Forget the biological effects. Steve is right, too...Forget the biological effects. Steve is right, too short a time span to be of any effect. <BR/><BR/>Consider the political effects of all those men gone in non-Soviet ruled nations. Germany with much of it's young men gone. Britain, France. The profound feminization of those nations particularly post WWII speaks volumes. While Switzerland which was immune from losing it's men did not grant women the vote till the 1970's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21741716170409927722008-01-16T10:13:00.000-08:002008-01-16T10:13:00.000-08:00Iranians gorgeous? Scrape off the makeup before yo...Iranians gorgeous? Scrape off the makeup before you make that decision. Still, with nose jobs nearly universal, I'm sure they're improving. Now if only the Brits would get teeth jobs. The Lebanese are pretty good looking though. Indians gorgeous? All one billion of them? Maybe it's just me, but I don't see it. Certainly some are, but it's just a matter of taste.<BR/> We've all got our biases I guess. The most beautiful people, male or female I've ever seen are in central Italy and former Yugoslavia. Except in Yugoslavia it was mainly the men who looked good. In Italy, incredibly thick, no-split ends, lustrous hair, faces out of Botticelli. And the women are even better. The Spanish (but not so much the Portugese) are often beautiful, as are the Hungarians and Czechs.<BR/> But in Florence I saw a policeman I would have died for--green eyes under wavy hair.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19306463332926920662008-01-15T19:33:00.000-08:002008-01-15T19:33:00.000-08:00with the old masters small pox probably had a larg...with the old masters small pox probably had a large say in who was pretty and who wasn't, the first vaccines were done when it was noticed milk maids who had contracted cow pox were not hit as hard by small pox. imagine a world were the only one with good skin is the farmers daughter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58542421808735052382008-01-15T13:43:00.000-08:002008-01-15T13:43:00.000-08:00In countries like Lebanon, Iran, and India, males ...In countries like Lebanon, Iran, and India, males have been outnumbering females for centuries. However, women in those countries are gorgeous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20701103966315743692008-01-15T10:24:00.000-08:002008-01-15T10:24:00.000-08:00If this is true(and I don't doubt that it is), the...If this is true(and I don't doubt that it is), then you will see the opposite in China, where currently, thanks to the One Child per Family law, there are about 130 men per 100 women. So men will be desperate for women, and we will see no selection for attractiveness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23986165605028770362008-01-15T10:03:00.000-08:002008-01-15T10:03:00.000-08:00"There are many testimonies that during the thirti..."There are many testimonies that during the thirties children died in mass, and it makies sense that the fairest were somewhat protected."<BR/><BR/>Oh, please, due to the wonders of evolution you'd be hard pressed to find a child who wasn't cute as a button. Not to mention a sturdier, hardier, "less attractive" child might just have a better immune system than the little waif with the big, bright eyes & not need "protecting" so would survive anyway. Where do you get this stuff?<BR/><BR/>Trust me. Find the ugliest person you can & get a picture of them as a child. You might even discover the opposite is true for someone you consider extremely attractive - the ugly duckling syndrome. <BR/><BR/>And while I'm on the subject. Highly intelligent people aren't necessarily good looking. Highly symmetrical facial features make a person look psychotic rather than attractive - we are accustomed to viewing faces that have a certain amount of asymmetry - too symmetrical looks weird to us...<BR/><BR/>Do some more reading. Do it now!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52953213177706182522008-01-15T09:09:00.000-08:002008-01-15T09:09:00.000-08:00Pictures from the Netherlands, 1400-1700 show almo...Pictures from the Netherlands, 1400-1700 show almost exclusively quite beautiful women. The virgin, of course, but also angels and patron's wives. And from the later eras, of course there are the Vermeer women.<BR/><BR/>The "ugly" women, such as those painted by Rembrandt and van Gogh, are mostly peasants, no better than their men.RobertHumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03913525250329418444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83658532768782435362008-01-15T07:57:00.000-08:002008-01-15T07:57:00.000-08:00"However, pre-Raphaelite maidens from mid-Victoria..."However, pre-Raphaelite maidens from mid-Victorian British paintings are pretty spectacular."<BR/><BR/>Jessica Alba spectacular? I can't imagine artists have genetically changed much, they were always lecherous and dissolute, so they must have been running game on the hottest chicks around to "immortalize" in paintings, then try to sleep with. And still, the history of art has a strikingly poor showing for what men find attractive--now. Disregarding body-shape, how socially-constructed is it? Have you ever been AROUND girls who look like Jessica Alba? There's sure no mistaking the other guy in the room being "socially-conditioned" to think she's just so-so. <BR/><BR/>You know he knows that you know he knows you know he knows you're dating a girl who's 7.8, on the 1-10 scale, no?<BR/><BR/>Now, guns carry a certain mythic weight, since they're in every movie, but rarely handled in person, but is Hollywood-attractiveness really the same? I detected a lot of specious pseudo-science in that John Cleese "The Face" beauty show, from a couple years back, but it's still a valid question. <BR/><BR/>I guess what I'm asking, beyond the single-generation thing, does Natural Selection have its own worthless "cosmetic enhancement" program constantly running, more or less pronounced in all human populations? You can't doubt the male-sexual-selection module is a pretty precise, definite thing, even if there are socially-constructed elements to it; beauty overlaps almost precisely with female fertility. Nonetheless I think the module's elastic enough to get excited about the prettiest girl around. <BR/><BR/>For instance, human female breasts are unnecessary, sort of derrierre-reminiscent things there for the same reason those bipedal red-assed apes have red on their cheeks, despite the obvious locomotive, wasteful drawbacks of big breasts: to remind males of genitals. Males didn't grow to find flat-chests as attractive as rear-ends, human female breasts grew, despite the uselessness of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89754537197494339822008-01-15T01:33:00.000-08:002008-01-15T01:33:00.000-08:00Ukranian people underwent not one generation selec...Ukranian people underwent not one generation selection event but successive such events in the 20th Century. There were civil wars, the collectivization and hunger, and the war. The post-Gorbachev demoralization also must have some effect. <BR/><BR/>There are many testimonies that during the thirties children died in mass, and it makies sense that the fairest were somewhat protected. But three or four generations could not cause a genetic difference. I think Slavic women were always beautiful, the lecherous Turks always demanded Slavic girls from their slave traders and were ready to pay top price for them. Circassian (Ukranian) girls were much appreciated in the Pashas's harems.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05676167615981895061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23488616924309827792008-01-14T19:04:00.000-08:002008-01-14T19:04:00.000-08:00Steve,Even as a woman, I share your love of the Pr...Steve,<BR/>Even as a woman, I share your love of the Pre-Raphaelite paintings. Bouguereau is my favorite (well, he's the favorite of most).<BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William-<BR/>Adolphe_Bouguereau<BR/><BR/>Bouguereau was French and doesn't appear to have painted any redheads, but they were heavily featured in Pre-Raphaelite paintings in general.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-54848917375779004362008-01-14T17:48:00.000-08:002008-01-14T17:48:00.000-08:00The assumption that good teeth and bone structure ...The assumption that good teeth and bone structure depends on modern dentistry is nonsense. While I don't idealize primitive people, they generally do have spectacular teeth and bone structure, with a palate wide enough to comfortably accommodate a excellent set of cavity-free teeth. While genes play a role, Europeans had similarly good teeth and bone structure before the introduction of large amounts of sugar. Weston Price's priceless worldwide studies during the 1930s show types from Switzerland to Ireland toto Congo to China to Peru. When they go off their natural diet, whether milk, fish, potatos, grain, meat or whatever, and start living on refined four and sugar (and nowadays sodas), the bone structure and teeth deteriorate. The photos a show dramatic differences even between siblings raised on different foods.<BR/>http://www.westonaprice.org/sitemap.html<BR/> By the 1700s, the food supply was already tainted and denatured, but bad teeth were probably less common than they are today. We know for certain that teeth were in pretty good shape during the middle ages, due to remains found. People were not very tall, but they were well formed.<BR/> I don't have any examples of pretty ladies from 19th century photos right now, but Lewis Carroll's photos of kids (no, he really was not a pervert) are gorgeous. Here's one example: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://press.princeton.edu/carroll/Alice.jpg&imgrefurl=http://press.princeton.edu/carroll/Alice.html&h=575&w=469&sz=54&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=xVfNUX59w7m0wM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=109&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dalice%2Bliddell%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3DenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60086072856688435462008-01-14T16:34:00.000-08:002008-01-14T16:34:00.000-08:00Some comments have mentioned Britain. John Derbys...Some comments have mentioned Britain. John Derbyshire recently wrote a short article (it's on his site) about the shortage of marriage-age men in Britain after World War I. Britain didn't lose nearly the same percentage of its young male population in WWI as the Russians lost 25 years later, but it was bad enough.<BR/><BR/>Could Britain have experienced a "survival of the hottest" effect?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43242234208395968962008-01-14T16:12:00.000-08:002008-01-14T16:12:00.000-08:00Possibly more "Mongoloid" Russian POWs were single...Possibly more "Mongoloid" Russian POWs were singled out for a particularly nasty fate by the Nazis. I remember watching a documentary on the Hitler Channel (occasionally known as the History Channel) in which German soldiers on the Eastern Front, in their letters written to families back in Deutschland, expressed horror at the not entirely European appearance of many Russians. <BR/><BR/>Still, I seriously doubt that the Nazis were all that selective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68041586458118835752008-01-14T15:53:00.000-08:002008-01-14T15:53:00.000-08:00By the way, in Old Master paintings, most girls ar...<I>By the way, in Old Master paintings, most girls are a little funny-looking. One partial exception is Botticelli. </I><BR/><BR/>I don't know how much you know about painting, but it seems odd to me to single out Botticelli.<BR/><BR/>Check out Christofano Allori's "Judith and Holofernes" (1613). This Judith wouldn't look out of place in an MTV clip or in FHM.<BR/><BR/>Or the same heroine and scene depicted around 1595 by Caravaggio, who used the same girl for "St. Catherine of Alexandria" (1597)<BR/><BR/>Or "Antea" by Parmigiano (around 1525). This is a portrait by the way, so this was not a painter's model but a regular person.<BR/><BR/>Rafael´s women weren't ugly either.<BR/><BR/>Also, modern day models are international stars who work all over the world, while painter's models were local girls.<BR/><BR/>Or even the artist's family mmembers. Rembrandt often painted his wives, who didn't have "model" looks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30923723472228139432008-01-14T15:38:00.000-08:002008-01-14T15:38:00.000-08:00Some problems with the early photos:1/ All B & W2/...Some problems with the early photos:<BR/><BR/>1/ All B & W<BR/><BR/>2/ The women in those early photos generally didn't smile-because then you would have seen their black/missing teeth.<BR/><BR/>3/ Make-up? What kind of painted lady would be respectable?<BR/><BR/>4/ Women in those early photos had children, sometimes multiple children at an early age (see B. Spears)<BR/><BR/>5/ Plastic surgery? What's that?<BR/><BR/>6/ Excercise? Women don't do excercise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51187914382310259862008-01-14T15:18:00.000-08:002008-01-14T15:18:00.000-08:00I have no idea what Anonymous is talking about whe...I have no idea what Anonymous is talking about when he says British women are some of the ugliest.<BR/><BR/>I dated a Scots-Irish girl for a number of years. She was a former Rose Festival queen from Austin. She was most definitely hot.<BR/><BR/>Go check out the Page 3 girls for British hotties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25328479898330111062008-01-14T14:17:00.000-08:002008-01-14T14:17:00.000-08:00This is very subjective of course but while not al...<I>This is very subjective of course but while not all Polish girls I see are beautiful, none of them would be described as ugly by me, also it should be said that few if any of them are over 35.</I><BR/><BR/>Great comments on an interesting topic ...<BR/><BR/>I think the consumer economy is generally good for one's appearance. Look at pictures taken of Eastern European groups 30 years ago and compare them to pictures from today. I can almost guarantee that the modern group will be collectively better looking, male and female alike. Their clothes and hairstyles alone will be vastly improved. Even little things, like eyeglasses, will be more attractive. Genetics certainly can't be responsible for this - it's simply access to more stylish clothes and accessories and greater interest in and emphasis on looking good. <BR/><BR/>Evidence? Google Hashim Thaci, the PM of Kosovo and former thug/terrorist. You'll find that he's quite a handsome fellow, and not just because of pleasing facial features. He's well-groomed, well-barbered, well-dressed ... he looks like he could be an American politician. Did you ever see a photograph of a Soviet-bloc politician who looked this good, with their greasy hair, heavy glasses and ill-fitting, outdated suits (not to mention perennially grim expressions - the impulse to smile and look friendly and generally good for the camera seems to be a capitalist notion)? Probably not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10260024091472257832008-01-14T14:04:00.000-08:002008-01-14T14:04:00.000-08:00Or perhaps the post-Soviet economic inequality and...Or perhaps the post-Soviet economic inequality and drinking-themselves-to-death behavior among Russian men means that Russian women have to try harder to snag a winner than in, say, nearby Finland, where there are a lot of pretty good guys available.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30355722501563478322008-01-14T13:54:00.000-08:002008-01-14T13:54:00.000-08:00Speaking in the negative. Why are the British pre...Speaking in the negative. Why are the British prehaps the uglist major tribe in Europe?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45893978294363439502008-01-14T12:38:00.000-08:002008-01-14T12:38:00.000-08:00In the UK we have seen a tsunami of Poles arriving...In the UK we have seen a tsunami of Poles arriving in the last two years. Before that Id never met any Poles (other than the descendants of the WW2 exiles). Now Im acquainted with and work with dozens and friends with a few.<BR/><BR/>This is very subjective of course but while not all Polish girls I see are beautiful, <B>none</B> of them would be described as ugly by me, also it should be said that few if any of them are over 35.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36977687212027725682008-01-14T12:17:00.000-08:002008-01-14T12:17:00.000-08:00People are better looking today because of better ...People are better looking today because of better nutrition and lack of childhood diseases.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17884515474945390862008-01-14T12:16:00.000-08:002008-01-14T12:16:00.000-08:00Steve,Another possibility -- not exclusive of one ...Steve,<BR/><BR/>Another possibility -- not exclusive of one proffered -- is that the Soviet men who returned from the war were disproportionately attractive.<BR/><BR/>This possibility would be consistent with a theory that (a) intelligent people tend to be more attractive (I believe this assertion is supported by a recent article in Intelligence), and (b) intelligent people would be less likely to die in war.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26266444354138833482008-01-14T11:44:00.000-08:002008-01-14T11:44:00.000-08:00In addition to Anonymous' comments about plastic s...In addition to Anonymous' comments about plastic surgery and cosmetics, nutrition and modern health care and sanitation may also play a role in making girls today look hotter than 100 years ago without necessarily any genetic changes. Populations in first world countries receive much better nourishment and medical care today than they did 100 years ago. Consequently, they are much taller and this secular increase in stature has not just been an overall increase in size, but limb proportions have changed quite a bit. First world populations today have comparatively longer limbs in relation to their torso dimensions and as a result have much longer and more linear builds than their predecessors as long as they avoid become too fat from overnutrition. This combined with hair bleach means that there are many more "leggy blondes" today than in the past.<BR/><BR/>Also, since people suffer less environmental insults than in the past, they probably have less disturbances to growth and better facial symmetry. Studies tend to find that people with more symmetrical facial features are perceived as more attractive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com