tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4858509205198155385..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: BlackwaterUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80009137332260600762007-11-03T22:56:00.000-07:002007-11-03T22:56:00.000-07:00"blackwater" is in reference to the creeks in the ..."blackwater" is in reference to the creeks in the area that run black with tannin from the tuff in the forests. The water is some of the creeks back in the woods is literally coffee-colored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-76110937014405771842007-10-29T21:38:00.000-07:002007-10-29T21:38:00.000-07:00What's fascinating about this whole thread is that...What's fascinating about this whole thread is that there are people here who have actually served in the military, or know folks in the military, and who actually talk to them when they see them instead of stare at the ground and sort of slink away.<BR/><BR/>How do these conversations go at sites like DailyKos?<BR/><BR/>"Um, yeah, I was a Marine in the 29th Division of the 75th Ranger Battalion stationed in Meridian, Mississippi. My rank? Well, uh, Chief Petty Officer. My platoon leader was Colonel Ozzie Mandias."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53469895194462514052007-10-29T20:58:00.000-07:002007-10-29T20:58:00.000-07:00My understanding is that many police forces hire p...My understanding is that many police forces hire private detectives to do things the police forces can't.<BR/><BR/>And by the way, if its wrong to have mercenaries, then why are private detectives and security guards okay?<BR/><BR/>And how about those private firefighters from AIG that helped out in San Diego?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13340552024279609352007-10-29T19:46:00.000-07:002007-10-29T19:46:00.000-07:00Some would consider them more of an elite light in...<I>Some would consider them more of an elite light infantry unit than special forces.</I><BR/><BR/>That's exactly the impression I got (from word of mouth, not just personal observations of their behavior) and was trying to impart.Svigorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397917915404344439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29399755303342360972007-10-29T19:43:00.000-07:002007-10-29T19:43:00.000-07:00One of these battalions is at Hunter Army Airfield...<I>One of these battalions is at Hunter Army Airfield.</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, that's what I meant, not Fort Stewart. I haven't lived in Savannah for 15 years.Svigorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397917915404344439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11781070398116103002007-10-29T16:26:00.000-07:002007-10-29T16:26:00.000-07:00I have no moral objections to using mercenaries, a...I have no moral objections to using mercenaries, as long as we don't pretend that thye are civilians.Glaivesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16867323638154972101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68126711604403006792007-10-29T13:19:00.000-07:002007-10-29T13:19:00.000-07:00To the best of my knowledge, all modern Ranger bat...<I>To the best of my knowledge, all modern Ranger battalions are headquartered at Fort Benning, Georgia and organized under the 75th Ranger Regiment.</I><BR/><BR/>Two battalions and the Ranger Training Brigade are based in Georgia. One of these battalions is at Hunter Army Airfield. But one battalion is based at Ft. Lewis, Washington, I suspect because Rangers are in the first line of reaction and so one gets stationed nearer to Asia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73926332082515878572007-10-29T12:59:00.000-07:002007-10-29T12:59:00.000-07:00Since when are Rangers "special operations" troops...<I>Since when are Rangers "special operations" troops? I'm no war nerd but I did live near Fort Stewart; as far as I remember/could tell at the time, that place churned out battalions of those guys and they weren't "spec ops." They were the Army's answer to the Marine Corps, as far as I could tell.<BR/><BR/>-svigor</I><BR/><BR/>They are special forces, but not quite as special as, say, Delta. The more talented guys often get their feet wet in a ranger battallion, then move on to other, more specialized units. Your average ranger is a kid of about 20 or so, whereas a Delta member would typically be closer to 30. One guy I know started out as a ranger, then became a SEAL, then something unclear, then worked for mercenaries, yet was somehow disappearing for "training" all the time. To be honest, I don't know what the hell he's doing, and he doesn't talk about it.<BR/><BR/>The special operations community is kind of a closed society, so if you know a couple of them like I do, you end up meeting a lot more. I shouldn't run them down, because for the most part I like them and enjoy their company, but they are <I>Warriors</I>, and that isn't an unmitigated blessing. <BR/><BR/>I am not surprised by the Blackwater incident. Something like this was bound to happen, and I seriously doubt it's an isolated fluke. <BR/><BR/>I watched that anti-American Turkish movie "Valley of the Wolves Iraq" recently, and as corny as it was it brought up many of the grievances locals have with Americans in the region. The main villain in the movie was an American head of a mercenary outfit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24903697619181085022007-10-29T12:37:00.000-07:002007-10-29T12:37:00.000-07:00Roger’s Rangers Rules or Plan of DisciplineMajor R...<I>Roger’s Rangers Rules or Plan of Discipline<BR/>Major Robert Rogers - 1757<BR/>(Commander of Roger’s Rangers) <BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Don't skip #13: " ....them put them into the greater surprise and consternation, and give you an opportunity of rushing upon them with your hatchets and cutlasses to the better advantage."<BR/><I><BR/>This is the original version — <BR/><BR/><BR/>1. All Rangers are to be subject to the rules and articles of war; to appear at roll-call every evening on their own parade, equipped each with a firelock, sixty rounds of powder and ball, and a hatchet, at which time an officer from each company is to inspect the same, to see they are in order, so as to be ready on any emergency to march at a minute's warning; and before they are dismissed the necessary guards are to drafted, and scouts for the next day appointed. <BR/><BR/><BR/>2. Whenever you are ordered out to the enemy's forts or frontiers for discoveries, if your number be small, march in a single file, keeping at such a distance from each other as to prevent one shot from killing two men, sending one man, or more, forward, and the like on each side, at the distance of twenty yards from the main body, if the ground you march over will admit of it, to give the signal to the officer of the approach of an enemy, and of their number, & c.<BR/><BR/><BR/>3. If you march over marshes or soft ground, change your position, and march abreast of each other, to prevent the enemy from tracking you (as they would do if you marched in a single file) till you get over such ground, and then resume your former order, and march till it is quite dark before you encamp, which do, if possible, on a piece of ground that may afford your sentries the advantage of seeing or hearing the enemy at some considerable distance, keeping one half of your whole party awake alternately through the night. <BR/><BR/><BR/>4. Some time before you come to the place you would reconnoitre, make a stand, and send one or two men in whom you can confide, to look out the best ground for making your observations.<BR/><BR/><BR/>5. If you have the good fortune to take any prisoners, keep them separate till they are examined, and in your return take a different route from that in which you went out, that you may the better discover any party in your rear, and have an opportunity, if their strength be superior to your, to alter your course, or disperse, as circumstances may require. <BR/><BR/><BR/>6. If your march in a large body of three or four hundred, with a design to attack the enemy, divide your party into three columns, each headed by a proper officer, and let these columns march in single files, the columns to the right and left keeping at twenty yards distance or more from that of the center, if the ground will admit, and let proper guards be kept in the front and rear, and suitable flanking parties as a due distance as before directed, with orders to halt on all eminences, to take a view of the surrounding ground, to prevent your being ambushed, and to notify the approach or retreat of the enemy, that proper dispositions may be made for attacking, defending, & c, and if the enemy approach in your front on level ground, form a front of your three columns or main body with the advanced, guard, keeping out your flanking parties, as if you were marching under the command of trusty officers, to prevent the enemy from pressing hard on either of your wings, or surrounding you, which is the usual method of the savages, if their number will admit of it, and be careful likewise to support and strengthen your rear guard. <BR/><BR/><BR/>7. If you are obliged to receive the enemy's fire, fall or squat down, till it is over, then rise and discharge at them. If their main body is equal to yours, extend yourselves occasionally; but if superior, be careful to support and strengthen your flanking parties, to make them equal with theirs, that if possible you may repulse them to their main body, in which case push upon them with the greatest resolution, with equal force in each flank and in the center, observing to keep at a due distance from each other, and advance from tree to tree, with one half of the party before the other ten or twelve yards. If the enemy push upon you, let your front fire and fall down, and then let your rear advance thro' them and do the like, by which time those who before were in front will be ready to discharge again, and repeat the same alternately, as occasion shall require; by this means you will keep up such a constant fire, that the enemy will not be able easily to break your order, or gain your ground. <BR/><BR/><BR/>8. If you oblige the enemy to retreat, be careful, in your pursuit of them, to keep out your flanking parties, and prevent them from gaining eminences, or rising grounds, in which case they would perhaps be able to rally and repulse in their turn. <BR/><BR/><BR/>9. If you are obliged to retreat, let the front of your whole party fire and fall back, till the rear has done the same, making for the best ground you can; by this means you will oblige the enemy to pursue you, if they do it at all, in the face of a constant fire.<BR/><BR/><BR/>10. If the enemy is so superior that you are in danger of being surrounded by them, let the whole body disperse, and every one take a different road to the place of rendezvous appointed for that evening, which must every morning be altered and fixed for evening ensuing, in order to bring the whole party, or as many of them as possible, together, after any separation that may happen in the day; but if you should happen to be actually surrounded, form yourselves into a square, or if in the woods, a circle is best, and, if possible, make a stand till the darkness of the night favours your escape. <BR/><BR/><BR/>11. If your rear is attacked, the main body and flankers must face about to the right or left, as occasion shall require, and form themselves to oppose the enemy, as before directed; and the same method must be observed, if attacked in either of your flanks, by which means you will always make a rear of one of your flank-guards.<BR/><BR/><BR/>12. If you determine to rally after a retreat, in order to make a fresh stand against the enemy, by all means endeavour to do it on the most rising ground you can come at, which will give you greatly the advantage in point of situation, and enable you to repulse superior numbers. <BR/><BR/><BR/>13. If general, when pushed upon by the enemy, reserve your fire till they approach very near, which will them put them into the greater surprise and consternation, and give you an opportunity of rushing upon them with your hatchets and cutlasses to the better advantage. <BR/><BR/><BR/>14. When you encamp at night, fix your sentries in such a manner as not to be relieved from the main body till morning, profound secrecy and silence being often of the last importance in these cases. Each sentry, therefore, should consist of six men, two of whom must be constantly alert, and when relieved by their fellows, it should be done without noise; and in case those on duty see or hear anything, which alarms them, they are not to speak, but one of them is silently to retreat, and acquaint the commanding officer thereof, that proper dispositions may be made; and all occasional sentries should be fixed in like manner. <BR/><BR/><BR/>15. At the first dawn of day, awake your whole detachment; that being the time when the savages choose to fall upon their enemies, you should by all means be in readiness to receive them.<BR/><BR/><BR/>16. If the enemy should be discovered by your detachments in the morning, and their numbers are superior to yours, and a victory doubtful, you should not attack them till the evening, as then they will not know your numbers, and if you are repulsed, your retreat will be followed by the darkness of the night.<BR/><BR/><BR/>17. Before you leave your encampment, send out small parties to scout round it, to see if there be any appearance or track of an enemy that might have been near you during the night. <BR/><BR/><BR/>18. When you stop for refreshment, choose some spring or rivulet if you can, and dispose your party so as not to be surprised, posting proper guards and sentries at a due distance, and let a small party waylay the path you came in, lest the enemy should be pursuing.<BR/><BR/><BR/>19. If, in your return, you have to cross rivers, avoid the usual fords as much as possible, lest the enemy should have discovered, and be there expecting you.<BR/><BR/><BR/>20. If you have to pass by lakes, keep at some distance from the edge of the water, lest, in case of an ambuscade, or an attack from the enemy, when in that situation, your retreat should be cut off. <BR/><BR/><BR/>21. If the enemy pursue your rear, take a circle till you come to your own tracks, and there form am ambush to receive them, and give them the first fire.<BR/><BR/><BR/>22. When you return from a scout, and come near our forts, avoid the usual roads, and avenues thereto, lest the enemy should have headed you, and lay in ambush to receive you, when almost exhausted with fatigues. <BR/><BR/><BR/>23. When you pursue any party that has been near our forts or encampments, follow not directly in their tracks, lest you should be discovered by their rear guards, who, at such a time, would be most alert; but endeavour, by a different route, to head and meet them in some narrow pass, or lay in ambush to receive them when and where they least expect it. <BR/><BR/><BR/>24. If you are to embark in canoes, bateaux, or otherwise, by water, choose the evening for the time of your embarkation, as you will then have the whole night before you, to pass undiscovered by any parties of the enemy, on hills, or other places, which command a prospect of the lake or river you are upon. <BR/><BR/><BR/>25. In paddling or rowing, give orders that the boat or canoe next the sternmost, wait for her, and the third for the second, and the fourth for the third, and so on, to prevent separation, and that you may be ready to assist each other on any emergency. <BR/><BR/><BR/>26. Appoint one man in each boat to look out for fires, on the adjacent shores, from the numbers and size of which you may form some judgement of the numbers that kindled them, and whether you are able to attack them or not. <BR/><BR/><BR/>27. If you find the enemy encamped near the banks of a river, or lake, which you imagine they will attempt to cross for their security upon being attacked, leave a detachment of your party on the opposite shore to receive them, while, with the remainder, you surprise them, having them between you and the lake or river.<BR/><BR/><BR/>28. If you cannot satisfy yourself as to the enemy's number and strength, from their fire, & c. conceal your boats at some distance, and ascertain their number by a reconnoitring party, when they embark, or march, in the morning, marking the course they steer, & c. when you may pursue, ambush, and attack them, or let them pass, as prudence shall direct you. In general, however, that you may not be discovered by the enemy on the lakes and rivers at a great distance, it is safest to lay by, with your boats and party concealed all day, without noise or show, and to pursue your intended route by night; and whether you go by land or water, give out parole and countersigns, in order to know one another in the dark, and likewise appoint a station for every man to repair to, in case of any accident that may separate you.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Such in general are the rules to be observed in the Ranging service; there are, however, a thousand occurrences and circumstances which may happen that will make it necessary in some measure to depart from them and to put other arts and stratagems in practice; in which case every man's reason and judgment must be his guide, according to the particular situation and nature of things; and that he may do this to advantage, he should keep in mind a maxim never to be departed from by a commander, viz. to preserve a firmness and presence of mind on every occasion. <BR/><BR/><BR/>— From JOURNALS OF MAJOR ROGER ROGERS (as published in 1765) </I><BR/><BR/>http://www.military-info.com/freebies/roger.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68196342857789868392007-10-29T12:29:00.000-07:002007-10-29T12:29:00.000-07:00Renaissance Italy, for example, used lots of merce...<I> Renaissance Italy, for example, used lots of mercenaries and how'd that work out for them? There are good reasons why advanced societies got rid of their reliance upon mercenaries. </I><BR/><BR/>Steve, privateers are a fine, old, and early American tradition. Check out the bios of John Paul Jones or of Robert Rogers. Rogers as in "Roger's Rangers." From whence do you think the US Army got that handle?<BR/><BR/>Good ol' Steve. Usually sound, but occasionally goes into his War Nerd mode.<BR/><BR/>Steve, you seem to have the Left's fear that Blackwater will be hired by the RepubliKKKan high command to do dirty deeds within the US and/or will become the nucleus of an AmericaKKKan FreiKorps. ( ... As if that were a bad thing, thinks I. ... just kidding. )<BR/><BR/>My attitude is, Blackwater is my kind of guys. Good for them if they can earn some decent pay checks.<BR/><BR/>/////////////////////<BR/><BR/><I> Robert Rogers was a colonial farmer recruited from New Hampshire in 1755 by the British for service in the French and Indian War (1754-63). <BR/><BR/>He created a unit ( of irregulars acting under a letter of marque --DD) called Rogers' Rangers in 1756 (the first Rangers), and by 1758 the British placed him in charge of all colonial Ranger companies. The Rangers wore distinctive green outfits and developed tactics called "Rogers' Ranging Rules", which the British considered unconventional. These tactics are still in use by Rangers today, including the Green Berets.<BR/><BR/>Rogers' Rangers were most famous for their engagement with the Abenaki St Francis Indians, who lived midway between Montreal and Quebec. These Abenaki were credited with the deaths of over 600 colonists during the duration of the war. After the Indians attacked a retreating British unit under a flag of truce, Rogers led a hand-picked force of 200 Rangers to destroy the Indian's village. <BR/><BR/>( Massacred the mostly mixed-blood St. Francis villagers and their French advisers, in the view of less sympathetic historians. --DD )<BR/><BR/>Rogers' Rangers took part in General James Wolfe's expedition against Quebec and in the Montreal campaign of 1760. The Rangers were later sent by General Jeffrey Amherst to take possession of the northwestern posts, including Detroit. In 1763 the Rangers were in the West again, during Pontiac's War (1763-64), and they participated in the Battle of Bloody Bridge<BR/><BR/>After the war, Rogers went to England to write of his accounts. In 1766 he asked King George III to fund an expedition from the Mississippi River to the Pacific. The King refused, but granted him command of the northwest post called Michilimackinac ( Michigan -- DD. From there, Rogers conducted his own expedition anyways. His ambition caused him to be sent to England on the charges of treason, but he was acquitted. ( Rogers was accused of wanting to set up Michigan and maybe Ontario as his own fiefdom. --DD)<BR/><BR/>Historians believe the spark of the American Revolution may have begun in the ranks of Rogers' Rangers. One of America's best officers during the Revolution was John Stark, who had been Rogers' Lieutenant. The British had treated the Rangers poorly during the French and Indian War. In 1775 former members of Rogers' Rangers fired upon the British at Concord and Lexington.<BR/><BR/>Rogers returned to America to join the Revolution when it started. George Washington refused his offer of help, because he feared that Rogers might be a loyalist spy. Outraged by this, Rogers openly joined the British and organized and commanded the Queen's Rangers, which saw service in areas around New York City, and later created the King's Rangers.<BR/><BR/></I><BR/><BR/>http://www.acidus.com/rogers.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29530784536562248912007-10-29T11:30:00.000-07:002007-10-29T11:30:00.000-07:00Since when are Rangers "special operations" troops...<I>Since when are Rangers "special operations" troops? I'm no war nerd but I did live near Fort Stewart; as far as I remember/could tell at the time, that place churned out battalions of those guys and they weren't "spec ops." They were the Army's answer to the Marine Corps, as far as I could tell.</I><BR/><BR/>They have been special operations troops for a long time, Svigor. However, quite a few infantrymen attend Ranger school to simply earn Ranger tabs and never actually serve in a Ranger battalion. I'm not aware of any Ranger battalions at Fort Stewart, just standard infantry, so maybe this is what you are referring to. To the best of my knowledge, all modern Ranger battalions are headquartered at Fort Benning, Georgia and organized under the 75th Ranger Regiment. When it comes to special operations, you have the Rangers, the Green Berets (technically known as "Special Forces") and Delta Force in the Army; in the Navy you have the SEALs and in the Air Force Pararescue (parajumpers). Until recently, the Marines had no forces that were technically special operations (that is, they weren't controlled by SOCOM) but the <I>de facto</I> equivalent of Marines special operations has long been Force Recon. I believe Force Recon is also under the command of SOCOM now.<BR/><BR/>Ranger school is much harder than ordinary Marines boot camp/infantry training. Marines who are part of the prestigious <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Recon_Battalion" REL="nofollow">1st Reconnaissance Battalion</A> have the opportunity to attend Ranger school when empty slots are available. From what I understand, it is considered one of the most difficult "extracurricular activities" available to these Marines.<BR/><BR/><I>Yeah, from what I've read, our special forces had the laser on the target (bin Laden) and Clinton vetoed the air strike because intelligence reported some towel-head bigshot would've been collateral damage.</I><BR/><BR/>See <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A59781-2004Feb21?language=printer" REL="nofollow">here</A>, <A HREF="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/09/clinton_i_wasnt_soft_on_bin_la.html" REL="nofollow">here</A> and <A HREF="http://bressler.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14931" REL="nofollow">here</A> for information on the problems the CIA had with (intentionally) ambiguous orders from the White House that made it impossible for the CIA to simply kill bin Laden.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59964802329989259532007-10-29T10:56:00.000-07:002007-10-29T10:56:00.000-07:00Svigor,The Ranger regiment falls under USSOCOM. h...Svigor,<BR/><BR/>The Ranger regiment falls under USSOCOM. http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/socom/sof-ref-2-1/SOFREF_Ch3.htm<BR/><BR/>What separates the Rangers from other infantrymen in the other Divisions or separate Brigades is the selection process. The Ranger Indoctrination Program (RIP) and mandatory completion of Ranger School if one is to stay in the regiment. Ranger School is available for infantrymen assigned to other units and Spec Ops of other branches. The Ranger regiment also serves as a feeder to Special Forces and Delta. Minimum rank allowed to apply to SF selection is E-4 and O-2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22196297587960459422007-10-29T09:45:00.000-07:002007-10-29T09:45:00.000-07:00Rangers fall under control of Army Special Operati...Rangers <A HREF="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arsoc.htm" REL="nofollow"><BR/>fall under control</A> of Army Special Operations Command, which means that they <I>are</I> special operations - though they are the bottom rung of special ops units, and generally the easiest to qualify for. Delta operators and SEALs are miles above them.<BR/><BR/>Some would consider them more of an elite light infantry unit than special forces.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28655734865683686662007-10-29T07:55:00.000-07:002007-10-29T07:55:00.000-07:00Tommy - "and big bucks simply screening out large ...Tommy - "and big bucks simply screening out large numbers of people who couldn't make the cut in Ranger School and the like"<BR/><BR/>I heard that one operation (a British one, not Blackwater itself) recruits through personal recommendation only. So the vetting is informal and cheap. You wont get in if someone already/formerly in the army or marines cannot vouch for you. The inexperienced and washouts wont usually get anywhere.<BR/><BR/>Maybe Blackwater is the same?<BR/><BR/>Another upside of that process is suspect muslims dont seem to to get inside these mercenary outfits. Unlike the the more PC regular US & Britsh forces as we know from various incidents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78721038444584290842007-10-29T06:16:00.000-07:002007-10-29T06:16:00.000-07:00If our military had been authorized by the Clinton...<I>If our military had been authorized by the Clinton administration to take out bin Laden he would have likely been dead anyway.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, from what I've read, our special forces had the laser on the target (bin Laden) and Clinton vetoed the air strike because intelligence reported some towel-head bigshot would've been collateral damage.Svigorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397917915404344439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86457219393332664592007-10-29T06:11:00.001-07:002007-10-29T06:11:00.001-07:00How do all of you anti-Blackwater folks feel about...How do all of you anti-Blackwater folks feel about the airlines?Jodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470033066493529625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21422459710280199832007-10-29T06:11:00.000-07:002007-10-29T06:11:00.000-07:00Sure, most of these guys are pretty decent and won...<I>Sure, most of these guys are pretty decent and won't be a problem in the future, but I've met a couple who are straight-up psychopaths. I know one who just got 5 years for attempted murder (he would have pulled it off if he wasn't so drunk), and I ran into another just the other night who head-butted a guy, breaking his nose over a joke he didn't think was funny. Both assailants were rangers.</I><BR/><BR/>Since when are Rangers "special operations" troops? I'm no war nerd but I did live near Fort Stewart; as far as I remember/could tell at the time, that place churned out battalions of those guys and they weren't "spec ops." They were the Army's answer to the Marine Corps, as far as I could tell.Svigorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397917915404344439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40718604417138719002007-10-29T05:07:00.000-07:002007-10-29T05:07:00.000-07:00If Blackwater had been hired to find and kill Bin ...<I>If Blackwater had been hired to find and kill Bin Ladin during the Clinton administration, he would have been dead before 9/11.</I><BR/><BR/>If our military had been authorized by the Clinton administration to take out bin Laden he would have likely been dead anyway. Blackwater isn't going to be bringing anything to that battle Special Operations soldiers don't have and we didn't need to circumvent the Geneva Conventions to get bin Laden - we just needed a president willing to authorize the hit. It just wasn't enough of a priority for Clinton and his document-filching buddy Sandy Berger.<BR/><BR/>We need to dump these mercenaries. It is a crappy deal for the taxpayers and those most tempted by the offers of firms like Blackwater are the very sort of personnel who would likely have long careers with the military if there were no other buyers for their skills (i.e. Navy SEALs, Army Rangers, Army and Marine Corp. snipers, etc.). These are prestigious specialties that less committed people in the military won't ordinarily even try out for. <BR/><BR/>These individuals aren't cheap to train either. In the process of driving up the cost of hiring and retaining skilled military personnel, Blackwater is also receiving a generous form of corporate welfare by selling our military the troops the military has already paid out big bucks to train (and big bucks simply screening out large numbers of people who couldn't make the cut in Ranger School and the like). <BR/><BR/>If Blackwater wants to compete on a level playing field then let them take in 18-year-olds with zero military experience and cough up the money to turn a worthy handful of them into special operations troops and snipers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78474087516309504342007-10-29T04:38:00.000-07:002007-10-29T04:38:00.000-07:00How come no one has mentioned Milo Minderbinder in...How come no one has mentioned Milo Minderbinder in Catch 22?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87232962747296704382007-10-29T01:53:00.000-07:002007-10-29T01:53:00.000-07:00I know a couple of guys who do this for a living. ...I know a couple of guys who do this for a living. They're young, well-paid, and get to play with the coolest big-boy toys. A lot of them really like their jobs, but I have pretty serious reservations about what's going on. <BR/><BR/>For one thing, they are used in situations where soldiers might be prevented from doing so by US law. For example, when the Louisiana Natl. Guard was sent to New Orleans to control the situation after Katrina, mercenaries were sent as well. I know one who was there. Seems like an end run around Posse Comitatus, but I'm no legal expert. <BR/><BR/>They are also used for sensitive missions that you and I will never know about because they are classified. Whose authority are they under?<BR/><BR/>Another consideration is the fact that these companies are largely run and staffed by special operations soldiers. I can't offer any numbers to back it up off the top of my head, but it seems that there are far more of them than there were when we faced down the USSR with tanks and bombers. <BR/><BR/>Special operations demands a certain mentality and combat style that could fairly be described as vicious. Do we really want to be training thousands of ninjas to eventually turn loose on the civilian population? <BR/><BR/>Sure, most of these guys are pretty decent and won't be a problem in the future, but I've met a couple who are straight-up psychopaths. I know one who just got 5 years for attempted murder (he would have pulled it off if he wasn't so drunk), and I ran into another just the other night who head-butted a guy, breaking his nose over a joke he didn't think was funny. Both assailants were rangers. <BR/><BR/>This is one of those things people haven't really thought through. As Steve's quote from Machiavelli pointed out, these guys may have some nasty surprises in store for their current masters somewhere down the line. <BR/><BR/>As for the "foreign" aspect of mercenaries, it is an interesting idea that if these guys are foreign in a sense, then perhaps the original racial stock of America has become a de-facto foreign entity in this land (we're certainly treated that way at times). The mercenaries and soldiers I know are racially and culturally so much more like me than the people I see when I turn on the TV that it's almost as though we constitute a different, alien nationality. That's something that's been kicking around in my head for a little while -- that America will not in all likelihood blend together, but rather different groups will coalesce and actually revert back toward their original forms. This may be the ultimate result of radical diversity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66501848515708049032007-10-29T01:18:00.000-07:002007-10-29T01:18:00.000-07:00Okay, but Blackwater _has been hired_ during the B...Okay, but Blackwater _has been hired_ during the Bush Administration, and the bastard's still alive after 6 years.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68791946267982067902007-10-29T01:04:00.000-07:002007-10-29T01:04:00.000-07:00The bottom line for the hiring of Blackwater and t...The bottom line for the hiring of Blackwater and the like is that they can circumvent the Geneva convention laws to which our soldiers must theoretically adhere, not to mention conforming and dealing with all the political shenanigans that never end.<BR/>This allows for tactical expediency advantages that our military, often striving for political correctness, and well as convention laws, simply cannot match.<BR/>Frankly, we utilize the Blackwater soldiers in matters where we want to "cut the bullshit, and get it done."<BR/>If Blackwater had been hired to find and kill Bin Ladin during the Clinton administration, he would have been dead before 9/11.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46277973721614539582007-10-29T00:04:00.000-07:002007-10-29T00:04:00.000-07:001) Not every relative of a 9/11 victim got "millio...<I>1) Not every relative of a 9/11 victim got "millions"; awards were based on future earning potential with a minimum payout of $250k.</I><BR/><BR/>No, but many did. The average payout was $1.8 million. If I died tomorrow in a car wreck would the feds give my wife and kids millions? Nope. The 9/11 workers were "special."<BR/><BR/><I>2) The purpose of the fund was to forestall a tsunami of litigation that could have bankrupted the airlines, among other businesses. Those receiving payouts were required to drop their right to sue.</I><BR/><BR/>Either way you're wrong on this one:<BR/><BR/>If you think the airlines <I>were</I> liable for the terrorist attacks, then why should Congress protet them from their own negligence?<BR/><BR/>If, as I, you don't think the airlines should have been held liable for the attacks, then either they would've won the lawsuit or Congress should have enacted tort reform protecting businesses from such tragedies.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>3) Family members of servicemen killed in battle today receive more money from the government than surviving parents or spouses ever received before in American history. The receive a tax-free one time "death gratuity" of $100k...</I><BR/><BR/>Even the poorest 9/11 victim's family got more than that. The average payout was $1.8 million.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>and, assuming their serviceman signed up for the max low-cost SGLI insurance (which they pretty much all do), an additional $350k in life insurance. This is comparable to what the family of a 9/11 office worker earning a similar salary would have received from the 9/11 fund.</I><BR/><BR/>Comparable, perhaps - for the lowest earner. Keep in mind that "earning a similar salary" means "peanuts." Because that's what most soldiers get paid.<BR/><BR/>And you mean that servicemen have to <I>buy</I> the life insurance - before they die??? Why who ever would have thunk it? Maybe the 9/11 office workers could've done that, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-27582816306226646092007-10-28T23:02:00.000-07:002007-10-28T23:02:00.000-07:00Very good post. In addition to "invade the world/i...Very good post. In addition to "invade the world/invite the world" the GOP also stands for running the government very poorly and corruptly.<BR/><BR/>Just about every good historian has noted that the best sign of a country in decline is that it hires mercenary armies to fight its wars. Frankly I find it scary that there is now a well-funded army, with its own PR machine, and controlled by a crazy Republican who married into the Amway company's crazy founders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26228435523442113052007-10-28T21:54:00.000-07:002007-10-28T21:54:00.000-07:00"In addition, the message has been sent by this Co...<I>"In addition, the message has been sent by this Congress and this administration that if you work in an office tower in New York, in no way serving the country, the feds will reimburse your family millions if you die from a terorrist attack. If you wear the uniform, then the best your family can expect is a few thousand."</I><BR/><BR/>1) Not every relative of a 9/11 victim got "millions"; awards were based on future earning potential with a minimum payout of $250k.<BR/><BR/>2) The purpose of the fund was to forestall a tsunami of litigation that could have bankrupted the airlines, among other businesses. Those receiving payouts were required to drop their right to sue.<BR/><BR/>3) Family members of servicemen killed in battle today receive more money from the government than surviving parents or spouses ever received before in American history. The receive a tax-free one time "death gratuity" of $100k, and, assuming their serviceman signed up for the max low-cost SGLI insurance (which they pretty much all do), an additional $350k in life insurance. This is comparable to what the family of a 9/11 office worker <I>earning a similar salary</I> would have received from the 9/11 fund. Surviving spouses or parents of slain servicemen also a monthly stipend for the rest of their lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com