tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4991278210225061547..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: IQ ArbitrageUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72348346793447133852009-12-27T08:54:57.942-08:002009-12-27T08:54:57.942-08:00"Why shouldn't everybody be able to borro..."Why shouldn't everybody be able to borrow at whatever interest they freely agreed to?"<br />Jct: Forget whether I should pay interest when I borrow your earned savings and concentrate on why I should pay interest when I borrow a bank's newly created credits that are not someone's savings. <br />Why shouldn't I be able to borrow new chips interest-free like at a casino bank so there's no inflation like on casino chips?King of the Paupershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14374913605730692218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4922718400899575512009-11-30T15:52:22.531-08:002009-11-30T15:52:22.531-08:00If a bank lends you $100 which didnt exist (fracti...<i>If a bank lends you $100 which didnt exist (fractional reserve banking magic) before they made the loan, and you only pay back $10. Well so what - they are still $10 up on the deal.<br /><br />Or am I missing something?</i><br /><br />Yes. When the bank lends you $100 that doesn't exist the loan document becomes the counter-balancing asset on their books - they incur a $100 debt to your account at the same time they receive a document from you which is a legally binding promise to repay the loan. The document is listed as an asset valued at some percentage of the outstanding balance.<br /><br />When you default on the loan the remaining balance on loan document is no longer worth anything, but the $100 they sent to your account is still in the debit column on their books. So yeah, they actually lose money.<br /><br />But you know that, intuitively, since hundreds of banks have gone out of business this year. If it was really just a case of them creating money with no restriction that would never happen.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34505883133259393472009-11-30T15:03:27.180-08:002009-11-30T15:03:27.180-08:00I used to play a lot of poker. In California pret...I used to play a lot of poker. In California pretty much every place that has poker also has a section for "Asian games", like Pai Gow, which are straight up gambling. High stakes gambling, in some cases - you can bet ten grand on a single deal in the card room I used to frequent.<br /><br />Half the people in the Asian games section have gambled away all their assets and charged up credit cards at "usurious" rates. But the way I see it things could be worse - we could have usury laws.<br /><br />You want to know what usury laws do? They drive people to that no-necked guy at the bar name of Vinny The Juice Man. Vinny will lend you money at 10% a week, and you don't even need collateral. But everybody knows Vinny gets paid first - before the rent, before the IRS, even before you feed your kids. There are a lot of people in these places with missing fingers.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50654352140392946342009-11-25T18:29:51.291-08:002009-11-25T18:29:51.291-08:00"Average IQ maybe, there are a lot of people ...<b>"Average IQ maybe, there are a lot of people in India."</b><br /><br />Lot of people in Latin America, Mid East, Africa, and SE Asia too.... How many African or Algerian or Turkish or (ethnic) Malaysian CEOs do you see? <br /><br />BTW, Mehta isn't a Brahmin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70628889317085621652009-11-25T17:37:47.382-08:002009-11-25T17:37:47.382-08:00Vernunft,
Yeah, you are right.
That explains why...Vernunft,<br /><br />Yeah, you are right.<br /><br />That explains why Anti-Usury Laws caused that massive Credit Crunch in the 50’s. <br /><br />How’s that? There wasn’t a massive Credit Crunch in the 50’s?<br /><br />Well, at least we can be sure that now that we got rid of those no good Anti-Usury Laws we'll never have Credit Crunches any more. <br /><br />How’s that? We just had a massive Credit Crunch in 2008? And this Credit Crunch was actually caused by Banks using the lack of Anti-Usury Laws to loan out money to people so poor that the only way you can loan to them is with really high interest rates?<br /><br />That surely can’t be the case! It would go against a precept of Libertarian Economic Dogma!Michaelhttp://venturageoscore.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72857478161169848572009-11-25T16:53:54.785-08:002009-11-25T16:53:54.785-08:00Look up Solon at Plutarch Live's:
Athens at t...Look up Solon at <a href="http://www.e-classics.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Plutarch Live's</a>:<br /><br /><i>Athens at this time had three factions: the people of the hills, who favored democracy; the people of the plains, who favored oligarchy; and the people of the shore, who favored a mixed sort of government and prevented either of the other two factions from prevailing. The political turmoil had come to the point where it appeared that the only way any government at all could be established would be for some tyrant to take all power into his own hands. <br /><br /> Under Athenian law at that time, if a loan went into default, the creditor could seize the debtor and his family and sell them as slaves to get money to pay off the debt. The cruelty and arrogance of the rich caused the poor to form into gangs to save themselves and rescue those who had been made slaves through usury. The best men of the city saw Solon as someone who was partial to neither the rich nor the poor, and they asked him to lead. The rich consented because Solon was wealthy, and the poor consented because he was honest.<br /><br /> Solon's task was dangerous and difficult because of the greediness of one side and the arrogance of the other. To placate both sides, Solon said: "Fairness breeds no strife." To the poor, "fairness" meant equal wealth; and to the rich, "fairness" meant keeping what they owned. 2 <br /><br /> Both rich and poor, therefore, believed for a while that Solon was on their side. But soon the poor people became disgusted that Solon would not use his power to seize the property of the rich. Solon's friends advised him that he would be a fool if he did not take advantage of the opportunity that fate had presented. Now that he had this power, they said, he should make himself a tyrant. Solon, who was a wise man, replied that tyranny is indeed a very pleasant peak, but there is no way down from it. <br /><br />* * *<br /><br /> Unlike Lycurgus, Solon could not change the state from top to bottom, so he worked only on what it was possible to improve without a total revolution. He only attempted what he thought he could persuade the Athenians to accept, with a little compulsion. Wherever possible, Solon made use of euphemisms, such as calling taxes "contributions." With a judicious mixture of sweet with sour, justice with force, he managed to achieve some success. When afterwards Solon was asked whether he had made the best laws he could for the Athenians, he answered: "The best they were able to receive."<br /><br /> Solon's first reform was forbidding mortgages on bodies. Even with the consent of the debtor, the creditor could no longer legally enslave him and his family. Those who had already become slaves were liberated, and those who had been sold to foreigners returned to Athens as free men. Solon also ordered that all outstanding debts were forgiven, so all mortgages on land disappeared.<br /><br /> But here Solon was disappointed by his friends. Shortly before he published his law releasing all mortgages, he told some of his most trusted friends. They immediately went out and borrowed money to buy land, giving the purchased land as security for repayment of the loan. When the law was published, they had their land free and clear. For this, Solon was suspected, but when it came to be known that he himself had lost fifteen talents by his own law, he managed to escape serious damage to his reputation.<br /><br /> Neither the rich nor the poor got all they wanted from Solon's reforms. There was no complete redistribution of wealth as the poor had demanded, and the rich were angry about the loss of the money they were owed. Both the rich and the poor now hated Solon for not obeying their desires. Even those who had been friendly to him before now looked at him with grim faces, as an enemy. But with time and success came forgiveness. When the Athenians saw the good result of the release of debts, they appointed Solon general reformer of their law.</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18643368728182238582009-11-25T13:45:03.095-08:002009-11-25T13:45:03.095-08:00"This post isn't talking about price cont..."This post isn't talking about price controls."<br /><br />Yes it is. Capping the price of credit is controlling price. This is basic stuff here.<br /><br />"The problem with price controls is that they create shortages, anti-usury laws do not cause shortages."<br /><br />There's no shortage of credit when people can't charge the market interest rate? More basic stuff that seems to have soared over your head.<br /><br /><br />"See the difference?"<br /><br />Nope! But then I have a brain.Vernunfthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16652751092085432868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30391793697752165322009-11-25T13:23:50.939-08:002009-11-25T13:23:50.939-08:00Headache - take an aspirin!Opposition to usury was...Headache - take an aspirin!Opposition to usury was a teaching of the Catholic Church in line with biblical precepts. The nobility of medieval Europe allowed Jews to practice usury in return for a cut of the swag (Jewish law forbade interest on loans to Jews but not gentiles). The Reformation relaxed prohibitions on usury and it has become a universal (and deplorable) aspect of civilization since.Dutch Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687679491743923216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26364628946475219172009-11-25T13:18:42.741-08:002009-11-25T13:18:42.741-08:00> anti-usury laws do not cause shortages <
...> anti-usury laws do not cause shortages <<br /><br />They cause a shortage of credit. Credit isn't a capital good but it's grease for the wheels.<br /><br />I like headache's take on it though I'm unreligious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84953288138838313492009-11-25T10:59:59.145-08:002009-11-25T10:59:59.145-08:00"I'm for usury laws. I'm also for the..."I'm for usury laws. I'm also for the government paving the roads, etc. But, because a bunch of libertarian a-holes got rid of them I now have to read the mile of fine print on every business decision. Should I have to pave my own side walks too? Libertarians are such unthinking pricks. A Conservative."<br /><br />Okay, but SOME people won't get credit, and they better not complain. But, they will! <br /><br />How about no cap on interest rates BUT no trick marketing. Like packs of cigarettes have warning labels, how about all credit card applications come with a warning in BIG BOLD LETTERS: If you're dumb and ignorant, this shit's gonna land you on your ass. <br /><br />Words ordinary people might understand.Middletown Girlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89207609588160616242009-11-25T10:46:53.900-08:002009-11-25T10:46:53.900-08:00FeministX/Half Sigma,
Middletown Girl was right wh...FeministX/Half Sigma,<br />Middletown Girl was right when she said:<br /><br />"As with everything else, liberals want to have the cake and eat it too. On the one hand, liberals want EVERYONE to have access to the goodies of life--almost as a RIGHT. But, when the negative cost of this policy becomes obvious, liberals say we need more regulation to save poor people from predation."<br /><br />You're also attacking a strawman by making Steve and his readers seem to be much more libertarian than is actually the case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24239248328026525772009-11-25T09:32:15.744-08:002009-11-25T09:32:15.744-08:00Anonymous said
> Anyone who goes into the lend...Anonymous said<br /><br />> Anyone who goes into the lending business will primarily be dealing with the least responsible half (or three quarters, or whatever) of the population. They will default. The banks will then buy enough politicians to get bailed out with taxpayer money.[...] Crises and bailouts are permanent features of the financial industry. They're not exceptions, they're the norm. The system seems to be set up with them in mind.<br /><<br /><br />I always assumed creditworthiness consisted in ability to repay. Now you're suggesting it consists in the opposite and always did. This seems to be an extraordinary inversion of what we're taught, and I want more proof, or at least a different credit score.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38444922184581804652009-11-25T07:54:10.683-08:002009-11-25T07:54:10.683-08:00Um, I think that is only indentured servitude. Tha...<i>Um, I think that is only indentured servitude. That is, a guy who couldn't repay a debt could just work for you to compensate you, but not for more than seven years. So whatever you wanted out of him, better get it in those years. After that you couldn't keep after him.</i><br /><br />No, it also refers to debts owed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53558644937764525842009-11-25T07:54:10.684-08:002009-11-25T07:54:10.684-08:00Usury facilitates the transfer of wealth from usur...Usury facilitates the transfer of wealth from usurers to usurees. The growing inequality of wealth in this country is partly due to the relaxation of anti-usury laws. Transferring the industrial economy to China et al didn't help either.Dutch Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687679491743923216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21184114416462231162009-11-25T07:43:34.741-08:002009-11-25T07:43:34.741-08:00FeministX said...
What's your schtick here? ...<i>FeministX said... <br /><br />What's your schtick here? Right wing economics say we have deregulation. This means banks can loan as they please. Liberals say regulate to protect the poor. <br /></i><br /><br />How sweetly naive, conservatives vs liberals on the banksters take over of our economy. Someone even threw in libertarians as if they had any political power.<br /><br />Ask yourself who is signing Chelsea Clinton's paychecks these days. Who were the top 10 donors to Obama's presidential campaign. How many Goldman Sachs men were in Clinton's and Obama's cabinet and staff vs Bush I & II. Who used the courts and similar threats to force bad lending to minorities?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57502815770470288032009-11-25T06:43:29.753-08:002009-11-25T06:43:29.753-08:00"The Atlantic had an article several months a..."The Atlantic had an article several months ago on the cause of the financial collapse. One of the facts it mentioned was that prior to 1985 the financial industry never made more than 16% of gross domestic profits. By the 90s it was over 30% and by this decade it was over 40%. I'm not talking about a random year or two - I'm talking about a long-term trend."<br /><br />Economic growth in the financial sector is not growth.<br />It is just skimming the cream off the top.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56576110143160794222009-11-25T05:15:08.677-08:002009-11-25T05:15:08.677-08:00"Price controls, they always work.
Economics..."Price controls, they always work.<br /><br />Economics is not your strength."<br /><br />The main problem with price controls is that they reduce the supply. in this case, that's a feature, not a bug. Read Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" sometime. He thought interest rates should be capped at 5%, to prevent speculative lending.Jim Bairdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01515091154037683897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50533109621265354622009-11-25T04:44:43.361-08:002009-11-25T04:44:43.361-08:00Prime sed:
according to some biblical sources, a d...Prime sed:<br /><i>according to some biblical sources, a debt ought to be forgiven by the lender after seven years.</i><br /><br><br />I personally think this is a great principle, but it is Old Testament and applied to the Jewish people only. The Jewish people had/have social constructs rooted in the synagogue which ensure that this principle is not abused within their society. In modern democracy, with its lack of social control, this principle would throw open the barn doors to hucksters and swindlers. On the other hand, don’t bankruptcy laws stem from this principle?headachenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88019099893691133202009-11-25T04:41:19.155-08:002009-11-25T04:41:19.155-08:00Anti-usury laws stem from that America with a prot...Anti-usury laws stem from that America with a protestant tradition. Classical Protestantism is about developing a benign society where institutions and money should serve man, not the other way round. That's what Jesus said about the Sabbath, so this principle applies to all things. That these laws could be construed as anti-Semitic says more about the complainers than about the laws. Nobody can argue with a straight face that anti-usury laws are a bad thing. Islam prides itself on taking no interest. Whilst this stance is unrealistic, and Arab banks have ways and means to get the dough anyway, the principle that money should be a tool to better society and not to grab and lust after is what lies behind anti-usury and is a secondary ethic of the New Testament. Considering the current meltdown, there is valid reason for this wisdom.headachenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62197003879107839942009-11-25T04:29:12.202-08:002009-11-25T04:29:12.202-08:00Anonymous said...
A few months ago I read Niall ...Anonymous said... <br /><br />A few months ago I read Niall Ferguson's 2 volume history of the Rothschilds. The book is full of financial crises and government bailouts, all of them facilitated by corrupt politicians. <br /><br />~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br /><br />Having wanted to tackle that work I envy you. I caught Ferguson narrating his multipart PBS series based on his Ascent of Money on the shelf here unstarted. Ferguson was on a panel of business journalists on Bloomberg TV last weekend all of whom have published a book on the meltdown and ensuing bailout. He said in an interesting thing in response to the question posed of each, 'how did you get into business journalism.' He said that in researching an earlier book exploring the roots of WWI in pre-war Germany, going through archives and press clippings that finance and the banking system had been given short shrift by historians. That "Finance and financial market history is as important, in some cases more important, than politics and political history in the shapings of the world into the present day" at which the other panelists nodded.Pat Shuffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57415912051166046232009-11-25T01:59:39.689-08:002009-11-25T01:59:39.689-08:00i thought indians had an IQ of 81???? hmmmmmmmmmm....<i>i thought indians had an IQ of 81???? hmmmmmmmmmm...........</i><br /><br />Average IQ maybe, there are a lot of people in India.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9656882893736743892009-11-25T01:58:18.131-08:002009-11-25T01:58:18.131-08:00If a bank lends you $100 which didnt exist (fracti...If a bank lends you $100 which didnt exist (fractional reserve banking magic) before they made the loan, and you only pay back $10. Well so what - they are still $10 up on the deal.<br /><br />Or am I missing something?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40845728791068539732009-11-25T00:18:54.933-08:002009-11-25T00:18:54.933-08:00"Price controls, they always work.
Economics..."Price controls, they always work.<br /><br />Economics is not your strength."<br /><br />This post isn't talking about price controls.<br /><br />The problem with price controls is that they create shortages, anti-usury laws do not cause shortages.<br /><br />See the difference?Michaelhttp://venturageoscore.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3331566251205931692009-11-24T23:06:16.671-08:002009-11-24T23:06:16.671-08:00The debtors who can't pay their debts should b...The debtors who can't pay their debts should be the indentured servants of savers - instead, it's the savers working for the debotrs by bailing them out. Brilliant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62177317891324757492009-11-24T23:04:40.852-08:002009-11-24T23:04:40.852-08:00"What I do not understand is how a bank makes..."What I do not understand is how a bank makes money lending money it can never get back." <br /><br />Who cares if the banks make money? The executives of the S&L, fly-by-night credit shop, or Citi for that matter, book the profits on paper based on a model of likely default rates, take high salaries, and then take off for the next job while the taxpayers are left holding the bad debts. And it's all legal!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com