tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post5504650720965100928..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Norman v. Saxon after 946 yearsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger197125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44284612314292110012015-10-06T20:57:47.359-07:002015-10-06T20:57:47.359-07:00Weird point of view.
"Seriously though, I won...Weird point of view.<br />"Seriously though, I wonder if the IQ advantage dissipates when you have more ancestors outside of the elite gene pool. A person can have a surname of Darcy, but in the 14th century the ancestor married a baker, who in turned married a farmer, etc. I doubt the IQ advantage would be sustained, even though one would still carry the name"<br />Elite gene pool? Some sad confusion here between military success and brains. Military success depends on a large numbers of factors, loyalty of troops, communication, effective chains of command, lines of supply etc. Strange and ludicrous retrospective conclusion to imagine that conquerors are always successful because of greater intelligence. The Normans were not considered to be even more civilised by many at the time. This is a version of the American colloquial thought " If you're so smart why aren't you rich". Sorry mate but there were genius bakers and very clever farmers in history as well, don't assume that people with brains rise to the top or even become rich, that is a product of a narrow quite specified focus and intelligence. People who have a latent ability for eg logic or languages, don't always have any opportunity to develop or use these skills, it doesn't mean that the mental capacity wasnt there in your ancestors or mine. This to my mind is proven by the enormous leaps made by ordinary people given the opportunity for education in the last century. Improved life circumstances where not all their energy is directed towards subsistence is a major factor.<br />.jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539997305094086470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-687389132946204032015-10-06T20:45:57.239-07:002015-10-06T20:45:57.239-07:00Weird point of view.
"Seriously though, I won...Weird point of view.<br />"Seriously though, I wonder if the IQ advantage dissipates when you have more ancestors outside of the elite gene pool. A person can have a surname of Darcy, but in the 14th century the ancestor married a baker, who in turned married a farmer, etc. I doubt the IQ advantage would be sustained, even though one would still carry the name"<br />Elite gene pool? Some sad confusion here between military success and brains. Military success depends on a large numbers of factors, loyalty of troops, communication, effective chains of command, lines of supply etc. Strange and ludicrous retrospective conclusion to imagine that conquerors are always successful because of greater intelligence. The Normans were not considered to be even more civilised by many at the time. This is a version of the American colloquial thought " If you're so smart why aren't you rich". Sorry mate but there were genius bakers and very clever farmers in history as well, don't assume that people with brains rise to the top or even become rich, that is a product of a narrow quite specified focus and intelligence. People who have a latent ability for eg logic or languages, don't always have any opportunity to develop or use these skills, it doesn't mean that the mental capacity wasnt there in your ancestors or mine. This to my mind is proven by the enormous leaps made by ordinary people given the opportunity for education in the last century. Improved life circumstances where not all their energy is directed towards subsistence is a major factor.<br />.jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539997305094086470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67424005669536154532015-10-06T20:25:30.330-07:002015-10-06T20:25:30.330-07:00Arguably the Normans were primarily successful fr...Arguably the Normans were primarily successful from a military perspective, because they had much more tightly defined hierarchical power systems. My understanding is that Anglo-Saxons and Celts rulers relied much more on an allegiance of heart and mind, there was less absolute primogeniture in their society also. The Normans weren't choosing wives on the basis of their brains or looks particularly, dowry and useful family connections were the important considerations. The Butt ugly comment above seems bizarrely gender biased to me, English men aren't top of the lists for good looks either but modern French men are slightly less good looking as rule. Subjective territory, but one fact that is absolutely true is that British stock dramatically increased in size in Australia and NZ, largely due to diet. This was particularly noticeable in the Great war, when the Anzacs often towered over the Tommies.(Let us not forget that 1 in 4 Australians has Irish ancestors also). Almost all down to increased meat consumption; sadly in my lifetime the general population is increasingly obese. When I first went to the US over 30 years ago I was amazed at the number of gone-to-seed fat Californians. Since then this has become a global phenomenon. It is hardly surprising that the wealth often has stayed in the hands of people from Norman backgrounds, there were a great deal fewer of them to start with after all. Conversely forming any analysis of wealth distribution for the millions of people with artisonal or A/S surnames would be extremely difficult to calculate and relatively meaningless even with understanding the interplay between inherited and created wealth at different times in British history. jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539997305094086470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87255529525740474452014-03-19T20:07:23.868-07:002014-03-19T20:07:23.868-07:00^^^
I hate to double post, but to spell it out, y...^^^<br /><br />I hate to double post, but to spell it out, you seem to be under the assumption that people within ethnic groups seem to be identical in genes and thus talent, when it doesn't quite work that way. <br /><br />Your family history can determine your blood pressure, proneness to anxiety or depression, your risk of a heart attack, etc. You think doctors chart your family history for giggles? In addition, your personality and IQ will be moderately correlated with your other siblings, which suggest a within-family hereditary component. In the grand scheme of things, on the stuff that matters, you will be far closer to your parents then your ethnicity as a whole. <br /><br />To be in the elite, not only do you have to have a high IQ, but also high conscientiousness, high openness, and high emotional stability, a sprinkle of the dark triad, all of which are highly hereditary, and rare to find together. <br /><br />This may come as a shock to many that comment here, but simply being white doesn't grant you equal genetic talent as the next Issac Newton. The Norman's knew this, which was why they didn't just breed with any random englishwomen they saw. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00915921529971035933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11086877134898275682014-03-19T19:36:22.807-07:002014-03-19T19:36:22.807-07:00"Seems to me a lot of them must have married ..."Seems to me a lot of them must have married the English girls of the now second rank aristocracy. So while the land and wealth and tile still attaches to the Norman name the genes might well be very similar to the general population by this time. "<br /><br />The Normans tended to marry English noblewoman, whose descendants married other nobles. This practice was done for hundreds of years. This would explain why those with Norman surnames are far more likely to attend Oxford. They married English women, but they were the cream of the crop. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00915921529971035933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25711604430252806092014-03-19T19:21:50.770-07:002014-03-19T19:21:50.770-07:00Whew. My surname originates from one of the Polis...Whew. My surname originates from one of the Polish Szlachta. Guess I dodged a genetic bullet. <br /><br />Seriously though, I wonder if the IQ advantage dissipates when you have more ancestors outside of the elite gene pool. A person can have a surname of Darcy, but in the 14th century the ancestor married a baker, who in turned married a farmer, etc. I doubt the IQ advantage would be sustained, even though one would still carry the name. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28442483104107970322012-07-24T14:44:33.128-07:002012-07-24T14:44:33.128-07:00This post has generated more bad pseudo-history th...This post has generated more bad pseudo-history than any of Sailer's that I can remember.alexishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14958611059030729965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56508905558571323412012-07-24T13:17:04.591-07:002012-07-24T13:17:04.591-07:00Back in the early seventies I had a daylong outing...Back in the early seventies I had a daylong outing with the locals in a small southern french town. The conversation turned to the Viking influence in Normandy. One of the french wags commented: "Eh oui, la-bas on dit "Voulez-vous passer le viking chez moi?"". We all thought that was pretty funny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33465545431105290272012-07-24T10:11:32.696-07:002012-07-24T10:11:32.696-07:00it is a curious fact that the composer of Land of ...<i>it is a curious fact that the composer of Land of Hope and Glory was a Catholic.</i><br /><br />The composer of "God Bless America" and "White Christmas" was Jewish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1481478403587272722012-07-23T21:06:13.432-07:002012-07-23T21:06:13.432-07:00"Best. iSteve. Thread. Evah!"
(With ap..."Best. iSteve. Thread. Evah!"<br /><br /><br />(With apologies to Steve Goodman and David Alan Coe...)<br /><br /><br />NOT the best iSteve thread evah......cuz there is nothing about Obama, Nazis, AIPAC, JFK, McMansions,Manute Bol or Occam's butterknife...TontoBubbaGoldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15084529465502345934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9851758279462154242012-07-23T14:40:51.264-07:002012-07-23T14:40:51.264-07:00"Someone touched on the Greeks. What is the c..."Someone touched on the Greeks. What is the consensus on the genetics of Modern Greeks? Are they Turks who speak Greek, as some people assert, or genuine descendants of the Ancient Greeks?"<br /><br />I think they're probably similar. One of the things about invasions based on a military elite is they tend to congregate in the places where the plagues happen and the population refills from the countryside.<br /><br />.<br />"There does seem to be a Catholic strain...it is a curious fact that the composer of Land of Hope and Glory was a Catholic."<br /><br />I think being an ethnic, religious or sexual minority creates internal conflict and calming internal conflict is one factor in the desire to produce art.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15605159316125687432012-07-23T14:20:39.696-07:002012-07-23T14:20:39.696-07:00Apropos of nothing in particular:
BEST. iSTEVE. ...Apropos of nothing in particular: <br /><br /><b>BEST. iSTEVE. THREAD. EVAH.</b><br /><br />That's all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91826489796746010242012-07-23T13:33:52.552-07:002012-07-23T13:33:52.552-07:00Dear boy, do you really think that believing Jesus...<i>Dear boy, do you really think that believing Jesus is the son of God is enough to make a Baptist a Christian?You really need to study your Catholic doctrine.</i> <br /><br /><br />Another person who knows jack about religion wanders in to offer his opinion.<br /><br />If you recite and believe in the Apostles Creed - and even the Anglican Church still does that - then, yes, you are a Christian.<br /><br />Feel free to expose your vast and encyclopedic knowledge of "Catholic doctrine" to all the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40139895687441628692012-07-23T13:22:40.638-07:002012-07-23T13:22:40.638-07:00How are we supposed to judge religions?By economic...<i>How are we supposed to judge religions?By economic performance? Organizational efficiency? At the very least, one can say that Anglicans have produced an aesthetic legacy that puts the Baptists in the shade.</i> <br /><br /><br />Dear God! (Pun half intended)<br /><br />As I said above, the typical isteve reader is an atheist or agnostic who only has time for religion to the extent they think it signifies ethnicity. Discussion of religion around here is a bit like listening to some high-school graduates trying to debate string theory.<br /><br />And you come along to prove the point. Thanks, mate!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1260533880249091562012-07-23T13:19:00.205-07:002012-07-23T13:19:00.205-07:00"That would be amazing if it were true. But i...<i>"That would be amazing if it were true. But it's not. There is no way to tell if those people "living nearby" are "direct descendants". Sharing some genetic markers does not make them direct descendants. (Unless he was the first person in history to have those genetic markers - but that's not the case here)"</i> <br /><br /><br /><i>They could be direct descendants. The waves of Indo-European invaders of various stripes would have reduced the portion of Cheddar Man's people in the modern population to maybe something like 10%, but they're still direct descendants.</i> <br /><br /><br />"Could be" means something rather different from "are".<br /><br />It "could be" that the people living in Cheddar today with the same genetic markers as "Cheddar Man" are his direct descendants. It's equally possible that they are not. There is no way to tell.<br /><br />The claim was made that they <i>are</i> his direct descendants, hence: "There is no way to tell if those people "living nearby" are "direct descendants".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8813254732335706142012-07-23T10:37:20.044-07:002012-07-23T10:37:20.044-07:00"Oddly enough, much of the best 20th-century ...<i>"Oddly enough, <b>much</b> of the best 20th-century English literature was written by Catholics (G. K. Chesterton, Evelyn Waugh, and of course Tolkien, among others)."<br /><br />One can just as easily point to the great many important non-Catholic 20th century British writers: W.H. Auden, Virginia Woolf, George Orwell, D.H. Lawrence, etc.</i><br /><br />"Much". Not "most".<br /><br /><i>That would be amazing if it were true. But it's not. There is no way to tell if those people "living nearby" are "direct descendants". Sharing some genetic markers does not make them direct descendants. (Unless he was the first person in history to have those genetic markers - but that's not the case here)</i><br /><br />They could be direct descendants. The waves of Indo-European invaders of various stripes would have reduced the portion of Cheddar Man's people in the modern population to maybe something like 10%, but they're still direct descendants.corvinusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3697792856288727972012-07-23T02:07:25.861-07:002012-07-23T02:07:25.861-07:00As I said earlier, people who think hard about rel...As I said earlier, people who think hard about religion are likely to be clever. There was a trend for intellectual conversions to Catholicism in England in the mid-20th century. Belloc and Tolkien were cradle Catholics, but Greene, Chesterton and Waugh were converts.<br /><br />Someone touched on the Greeks. What is the consensus on the genetics of Modern Greeks? Are they Turks who speak Greek, as some people assert, or genuine descendants of the Ancient Greeks?<br /><br />There does seem to be a Catholic strain in English music. Byrd, and I think Tallis, were Catholics. I believe Elizabeth the First tolerated Byrd's Catholicism. Moving to modern times, it is a curious fact that the composer of Land of Hope and Glory was a Catholic.Julian O'Deahttp://julianodea.blogspot.com.au/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39777776012841290812012-07-22T23:58:46.655-07:002012-07-22T23:58:46.655-07:00Graham Greene, too.Graham Greene, too.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43795895311836358602012-07-22T23:42:48.720-07:002012-07-22T23:42:48.720-07:00"Oddly enough, much of the best 20th-century ..."Oddly enough, much of the best 20th-century English literature was written by Catholics (G. K. Chesterton, Evelyn Waugh, and of course Tolkien, among others)."<br /><br />One can just as easily point to the great many important non-Catholic 20th century British writers: W.H. Auden, Virginia Woolf, George Orwell, D.H. Lawrence, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87497706868651267452012-07-22T23:28:02.535-07:002012-07-22T23:28:02.535-07:00http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/r...http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/r1b-dna-distribution.jpg<br /><br /><br />The weird thing about that map of R1b distribution is if you didn't know about clades and diversity etc - which i don't but have read about - then on the face of it you might think R1b expanded west to east from the atlantic coast with an offshoot along the Danube which overflowed into Anatolia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65850941467663846792012-07-22T23:20:19.205-07:002012-07-22T23:20:19.205-07:00Anonymous:"The Anglican tradition has given u...Anonymous:"The Anglican tradition has given us some masterpieces of English literature" <br /><br /><br />"No doubt. But as a religion it has left much to be desired."<br /><br />Really? How are we supposed to judge religions?By economic performance? Organizational efficiency? At the very least, one can say that Anglicans have produced an aesthetic legacy that puts the Baptists in the shade.<br /><br />SyonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13292993229284659482012-07-22T23:12:15.643-07:002012-07-22T23:12:15.643-07:00Anonymous:"Baptists believe that Jesus Chris ...Anonymous:"Baptists believe that Jesus Chris is the Son of God. So do Catholics.<br /><br />The day is long past when you could say the same thing about Anglicans."<br /><br />Funny,I know many Anglicans who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.On the other hand, there are many atheist Frenchmen of my acquaintance who embrace the Roman Catholic Church as a bulwark of French identity.<br /><br />SyonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70247832990875334462012-07-22T23:07:43.006-07:002012-07-22T23:07:43.006-07:00Anonymous:"Baptists believe that Jesus Chris ...Anonymous:"Baptists believe that Jesus Chris is the Son of God. So do Catholics.<br /><br />The day is long past when you could say the same thing about Anglicans."<br /><br />Dear boy, do you really think that believing Jesus is the son of God is enough to make a Baptist a Christian?You really need to study your Catholic doctrine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57906468810037350812012-07-22T22:58:02.917-07:002012-07-22T22:58:02.917-07:00Dutch Boy
"Sykes based his estimates on the ...Dutch Boy<br /><br />"Sykes based his estimates on the frequency of I1 y-DNA...in the British population (he calls them invader type y-DNA). The native British y-DNA type is largely R1b."<br /><br />Yes but Denmark and the surrounding areas, where the Saxons came from, has 40-50% R1b<br />too.<br /><br />http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/r1b-dna-distribution.jpg<br /><br />So if the Saxon, Viking, Norman etc invasions were split 50% R1b and 50% R1a and I then the R1b component as a marker would be lost inside the original R1b population.<br /><br />Now there are different clades of R1b so it might still be true but all the known invader groups - Celt, Saxon, Viking, Norman - had at least 40% R1b.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82423711199731671252012-07-22T21:57:09.126-07:002012-07-22T21:57:09.126-07:00http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2...http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/07/thiel-v-schmidt.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com