tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post5640930190915498073..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Advanced Advanced PlacementUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74834543877953820732011-01-10T14:00:27.876-08:002011-01-10T14:00:27.876-08:00Terms like "lazy" or "grind" a...Terms like "lazy" or "grind" are really subjective. For the average Asian person, everyone else (except maybe Indians) are lazy. For the average white and especially NAM, Asians are grinds. <br /><br />Objectively, it'd be fair to say that for non-Asians, most time is spent in leisure. For Asians, most time is spent studying or schooling. Depending your value system, Asians are grinds or everyone else is lazy. Take your pick. <br /><br />Personally, I believe in the work/life balance. I don't approve of the East Asian academic system, but I do think most Americans, of all races, slack to some extent. It wouldn't kill us to extend the school day and cut back on all these breaks, but the East Asians should let their kids play more. Balance tends to optimize things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23488271182387673022011-01-10T11:06:05.443-08:002011-01-10T11:06:05.443-08:00If whites are so much less intelligent and industr...If whites are so much less intelligent and industrious than Chinese and Indians, we're just forced further afield to explain why China and India suck, and any sane Chinese or Indian would emigrate to a European country.<br /><br />We talk about creativity a lot here, but honesty (trust) plays a role, too. Chinese and Indians don't have an honest (trusting) bone in their bodies, relative to Euros. And there's agreeableness; too much agreeableness means authoritarianism.<br /><br />And it's not as though the Chinese, for example, aren't the sort to get rich and sit on their asses; I just read an interesting Cablegate memo about the friction between "princelings" and "shopkeepers" in the Communist party elite. The princelings are the sons of the leaders of the revolution, who think their pedigrees mean they get to rule. A harbinger of Chinese complacency to come?<br /><br />In short; everybody's hungry when they're poor. Let's see how the Chinese and Indians perform <i>after</i> a few generations of prosperity.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37029877969901999092011-01-10T00:46:51.761-08:002011-01-10T00:46:51.761-08:00I agree with the previous poster who mentioned tha...I agree with the previous poster who mentioned that Asians only seemed like grinds because other groups were lazy. In my opinion, blacks, whites, and Hispanics are congenitally lazy compared to East Asians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84199456069438721132011-01-10T00:35:04.832-08:002011-01-10T00:35:04.832-08:00Asians only look like such grinds because they'...<i>Asians only look like such grinds because they're compared to groups with these slacking tendencies.</i><br /><br />Heh. Funny how the doctrine of the mean always turns out in practice to "mean" that wherever I am, that's the golden mean! ;)<br /><br />(Not to confine this to Asians of course. I should this will become more common among Whites the more they are intermediate between Africans and Asians - why, they're just the golden mean, that's it!).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21035543910665837392011-01-10T00:32:00.736-08:002011-01-10T00:32:00.736-08:00Simon, I looked up the statistics.
Hi. I, anonymo...<i>Simon, I looked up the statistics.</i><br /><br />Hi. I, anonymous, who answered you, am not Simon, to clean up any confusion. But thank you for your reply.<br /><br />Some of the overrep may come from Pakistani folks registering in bogus colleges to gain leave to stay in the UK, but if all these folks are British citizens, that's of course not the case. If they are not British nationals, but merely people of Pakistani origin, thus aggregated, this would explain the whole of the difference, I would think.<br /><br />If not it would be interesting why Pakistanis with good results are more interested in the higher education track rather than going straight into work.<br /><br />You are right that it's curious about the Sikhs. I've known mostly East African Sikhs in London, who in my experience have been like the Hindus in that they are from East Africa and to quote a site about them "also had the further advantage of usually being highly skilled and employable, in contrast to the humble labourers from the Punjab", although most of the Sikhs in the UK have, as you say, arrived as labourers. The exact proportion of each is somewhat difficult to obtain.<br /><br />Presumably this dual nature of Sikhs is why I've been confused in the past when comments on iSteve have discussed the so called "Sikhs working as labourers". I would assume that the "African" Sikhs have boosted the "Punjabi" Sikhs accomplishment somewhat, but possibly not enough. Possibly they inspired their Sikh brothers somewhat as well. <br /><br />You are right that these groups still overaccomplish relative to the sub-90 IQ ceteris paribus estimates from India, which indicates that these are incorrect or that migration has been relatively selective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78167448714916412262011-01-09T17:21:04.685-08:002011-01-09T17:21:04.685-08:00"Black Sea said...
To a considerable ext..."Black Sea said...<br /><br /> To a considerable extent, critical thinking is simply the application of the scientific method to a host of questions and controversies."<br /><br />I agree with everything you wrote. My point in an earlier post was merely that the term "critical thinking" is redundant. If critical has any meaning in the context, it has no meaning which is not subsumed by the simple word "thinking". The use of the CT term by the education establishment shows nothing but thier own faux-erudition and thier fondness for sixty-four dollar words which add no meaning.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41253328997235836422011-01-09T15:42:09.523-08:002011-01-09T15:42:09.523-08:00Grind = focused and hardworking. Use the terminol...Grind = focused and hardworking. Use the terminology you wish, but I respect hardwork. Though I do think there needs to be a balance between work and play too. We need to be more like Asians/Indians, but they should be more like us. <br /><br />A lot of people have this image of white Americans as being sober, responsible, well-behaved, hardworking, etc.... Realistically, they aren't too bad, but there's a moderate amount of teen rebllion and rowdiness, combined with a tendency to do the minimum to get by. White Americans do have some tendency to slacking, even it's not too severe.<br /><br />Asians only look like such grinds because they're compared to groups with these slacking tendencies. <br /><br />By the way, would are Indians grinds?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44972306344329608232011-01-09T15:32:25.548-08:002011-01-09T15:32:25.548-08:00Simon, I looked up the statistics.
In terms of go...Simon, I looked up the statistics.<br /><br />In terms of good GCSEs, Indians have been increasing their lead over British whites for the last 10years. Pakistanis do worse, but they've been narrowing the gap significantly. Bangladeshis are almost doing as well as whites. Chinese are way ahead of almost everyone, but not too far ahead of Indians.<br /><br />Pakistanis and especially Indians attend college/university at a much higher rate than white British. Bangladeshis are about equal. Indians seem to be vastly overrepresented in law, medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, etc. whearas Pakistanis are evenly represented. Whites are underrepresented. <br /><br />I think you're right that the Gujarati merchants (Patels, Shahs, Parikhs, Mehtas) and medics in Britain are much more prosperous than Sikhs, who came as laborers. However, even Sikhs are about as prosperous as white British.<br /><br />A few questions come to mind....<br /><br />1.) Why are Pakistanis and Indians so overrepresented in higher education? <br />2.) If they have lower mean IQs, how can all the South Asian groups be so competitive with British?<br /><br />I would guess that by your description of South Asians (quiet, studious, overbearing parents, unathletic) that they are a lower testosterone and more submissive/docile group by nature. So maybe that's conducive to pushing their kids to attend school, study, and not rebel - even if the kids aren't all that bright.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37529567759757412702011-01-09T12:30:17.054-08:002011-01-09T12:30:17.054-08:00The final thing I would say is that crititcal thin...<i>The final thing I would say is that crititcal thinking isn't something that you teach in a course, it's something that does (or doesn't) permeate a curriculum.</i><br /><br />That's what I was getting at; IME critical thinking is a <i>value</i> you teach, more than a process.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69683737144797432292011-01-09T09:10:41.065-08:002011-01-09T09:10:41.065-08:00"but contrary to anonymous, plenty of them ar..."but contrary to anonymous, plenty of them are straight up grinders."<br /><br />Once again, a simple error in understanding:<br /><br />There is no such thing as a "grinder", either one has the intellect to pass these tests, or he does not. If he does not there is nothing he can do to develop it.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69738367666582794932011-01-09T03:47:18.223-08:002011-01-09T03:47:18.223-08:00Simon, I thought that South Asian (Indian and Paki...<b>Simon</b>, I thought that South Asian (Indian and Pakistani) kids were overrepresented in the British universities and were especially well represented in medical, dental, pharmacy, and law schools. They (at least Indians) also get more good GCSEs than white students. <br /><br />The stats show South Asians are academically outdoing British whites.<br /><br />Out of curiosity, how do white British view South Asians? What are some stereotypes associated with them, their children, and their enclaves?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14562581367026788052011-01-09T02:54:17.869-08:002011-01-09T02:54:17.869-08:00I know a lot of Asians that love e-gaming. It wou...I know a lot of Asians that love e-gaming. It wouldn't surprise me if they had some natural talent for it.<br /><br />I don't think many people are complaining that it's unfair that Asians work/practice harder. Asians have been working harder for decades and gaining admittance to elite American universities and professions at a disproportionately high rate. Nobody, except on the left, is suggesting that we insitute affirmative action to dramatically lower the Asian percentage at these schools and programs. Asian immigrants can immigrate to California, send their kids to UCLA (over the kids of some caucasian or black guy), and not get any trouble from society. Asians playing the game fairly and winning, so people are fine with it. <br /><br />The issue is whether work habits and personality can explain their attainment better than IQ. If those factors are better than IQ, it doesn't take away from Asian achievement. <br /><br />Regardless of why Asians are doing better academically, they are doing better. So they win. <br /><br />Some people might also have issue with whether children should be pushed to study long hours. This is more subjective, so you can argue either way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74977545682720972352011-01-09T02:44:21.555-08:002011-01-09T02:44:21.555-08:00My impression from the evidence I've seen is t...My impression from the evidence I've seen is that nort-east Asians have an IQ advantage over whites in visuospatial abilities, but a fairly small natural advantage is accentuated by working harder than white children.<br /><br />This doesn't apply in my field; at my University the hardest working students IME tend to be northern European (male + female), especially Germans, and black African female, esp southern African. I've seen very little sign of south-Asians being particularly hard-working, neither British born nor overseas students, though there are individual exceptions.Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46961121558613099922011-01-09T01:27:16.863-08:002011-01-09T01:27:16.863-08:00The notion that East Asian Americans are purely ac...<i>The notion that East Asian Americans are purely academic grind outs is quite frankly a canard. Obviously Steve Sailer and his white nationalist readers have never heard of World of Warcraft or Starcraft 2. East Asians generally tend to spend their free time doing things that nerdier Europeans Americans do, i.e. computer/video gaming, etc.</i><br /><br />Speaking of which, I follow e-sports (professional video gaming), and there's a nearly parallel perception among the community that asians are only the best players because they practice a lot. Anything but admit they're more talented.<br /><br />There's a thinly veiled desire in Starcraft 2 to see a non-Korean win the GSL (biggest SC2 tournament), which leads to Western players who really aren't that good being hyped up to death as if they're an elite talent, like Idra, who has never cracked the top 10 in GSL.<br /><br />And check out the comments after this Defense of the Ancients article.<br /><br />http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/news/14144-gosuawards-2010-solo-player-of-the-year<br /><br />After all 5 nominees for best player are Chinese, do comments like this sound familiar?<br /><br /><i>You see, individually Asian players aren't better, but since they practice more and thus have better teamwork, they win more. This kind of news makes GosuGamers look so ridiculously biased towards Asia, which I'm sure is not your intentions.<br />Please at least consider that not splitting it up into two polls was a mistake, and perhaps do it next year (if you do this again).</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41298636049654228522011-01-09T00:31:37.774-08:002011-01-09T00:31:37.774-08:00"
Who cares, no kid should be going to school..."<b><br />Who cares, no kid should be going to school 8 hours a day and cramming 6 hours afterwards. That is ridiculous. Piling on extra homework doesn't make anyone any smarter. Whatever happened to childhood, and free-time? Kids shouldn't have unreasonable expectations placed upon them like that. Life is short, you can work reasonably hard and be industrious without grinding yourself into the ground.<br /><br /></b>"<br /><br />In India and East Asia, among the middle classes, the mentality is that a child shouldn't play too much. Childhood is for studying and a child should learn to obey his parents and teachers. If you don't study, you'll fall behind and not get a professional job, so you'll end up working class and won't marry well. You also will be stigmatized by society and shunned by your family.<br /><br />Sports, dating, partying, hanging out, "finding yourself", being a kid, etc. are Western concepts that Asians/Indians would term as BS. Life is about grinding and doing what your parents want. Most everything else is frivolous. <br /><br />As both Asians and Indians tend to be submissive/docile low-testosterone populations, the parents and society can push the kids to spend all their free time cramming and doing homework. Unruliness, teen rebellion, and kids who fight back are almost unknown in these cultures.<br /><br />This mentality is what produces those Asian/Indian academic superstars. You might not like it, but this is the reality of the east. <br /><br />If America wants to continue to maintain its edge, it might need to embrace the mentality to an extent, if it can. <br /><br />When Amerians think of minorities, groups like blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, and Filipinos come to mind. For Europeans - it's Africans, Arabs, Muslims, Turks, and Middle Easterners. If you deal with Asians and Indians, it's striking (REALLY STRIKING) just how different they are from NAMs. It's almost like they live in a different universe, behaviorally and culturally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64893452850640365392011-01-08T23:12:18.379-08:002011-01-08T23:12:18.379-08:00To a considerable extent, critical thinking is sim...To a considerable extent, critical thinking is simply the application of the scientific method to a host of questions and controversies. Critical thinking also highlights the distinction between areas of thought which are suject to empirical verification, and those which are not. In this sense, critical thinking can be taught, though the extent to which it will be learned depends of course on the student. But this is true of everything.<br /><br />From what I've observed, and read, the less you know about a subject, the harder to it is to think critically about it (hardly surprising). The second, less obvious point, is that people compartmentalize this practice. A research engineer who spends all day thinking critically about technical problems and solutions may go out and buy a car on a whim, knowing almost nothing about its performance characteristics. In other words, there isn't much critical thinking carry-over from one area of our lives to another.<br /><br />The final thing I would say is that crititcal thinking isn't something that you teach in a course, it's something that does (or doesn't) permeate a curriculum. And teaching it still isn't that effective, because in fact critical thinking is a highly unnatural activity. One of the first things people need to learn is how to be comfortable saying, "I don't know enough to have an opinion."Black Seahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347464061061628147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25654817697637574662011-01-08T21:58:53.083-08:002011-01-08T21:58:53.083-08:00"I have to admit, there are a fair number of ...<i>"I have to admit, there are a fair number of nihilists here at iSteve."</i><br /><br />You can always spot the theologically-motivated cranks on the discussion forums here, thanks to their constant abuse and misuse of the word "nihilist".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78835894514909611222011-01-08T21:51:24.044-08:002011-01-08T21:51:24.044-08:00""Evolution" is a nifty little idea...<i>""Evolution" is a nifty little idea, but it's just that - an idea, nothing more."</i><br /><br />Yeah, and "gravity" is a nifty little idea, but it's just that - an idea, nothing more.<br /><br />Go back to the children's table, Mr. Anonymous #1; the adults are talking here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69248541873754767322011-01-08T21:46:13.456-08:002011-01-08T21:46:13.456-08:00"SAT prep courses are generally pretty short ..."SAT prep courses are generally pretty short term, but can boost test scores by at least a little bit. If American kids were attending academic prep courses every day, it's not inconceivable that their test and academic performance would benefit substanially. Of course, that assumes that American kids are diligent enough to work that hard."<br /><br />Who cares, no kid should be going to school 8 hours a day and cramming 6 hours afterwards. That is ridiculous. Piling on extra homework doesn't make anyone any smarter. Whatever happened to childhood, and free-time? Kids shouldn't have unreasonable expectations placed upon them like that. Life is short, you can work reasonably hard and be industrious without grinding yourself into the ground.Anonyianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89313103249690394762011-01-08T21:34:24.715-08:002011-01-08T21:34:24.715-08:00Hi!
Steve, are you going to comment of the &quo...Hi! <br /><br />Steve, are you going to comment of the "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior" article from the Wall Street Journal?asnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51840786718925063552011-01-08T21:03:37.605-08:002011-01-08T21:03:37.605-08:00"critical thinking" - pah. You need to k...<i>"critical thinking" - pah. You need to know things before you can think critically.</i><br /><br />In my experience, the most important things in teaching critical thinking are 1) that it exists and what it is, and 2) that it's important. After that, people with a facility will develop it on their own.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72849596985847796682011-01-08T20:52:00.094-08:002011-01-08T20:52:00.094-08:00Though Sailer's readers often accuse East Asia...<i>Though Sailer's readers often accuse East Asian Americans of being grind outs</i><br /><br />You morph "state" into "accuse," thus tipping your hand. Oh well, not much use knowing which side some guy named "Anonymous" is on...<br /><br /><i>the fact of the matter is that white European Americans benefit relatively speaking from a test that's less g-loaded and more amenable to preparation/memorization/etc.</i><br /><br />You construct this as if you've highlighted some contradiction here. What might that be?Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22176440241691043562011-01-08T20:44:29.599-08:002011-01-08T20:44:29.599-08:00East Asian Americans are not complete academic gri...East Asian Americans are not complete academic grind outs, but that's not the issue The issue is to what extent Asian achievement is a product of IQ v.s. effort. If Asians study more than other groups and are more likely to pursue higher education, it suggests that higher effort plays at least some role. <br /><br />In East Asia and India, the students are pretty much complete grind outs, as they spend most of their waking time in school. Among East Asians and Indians <i>in America</i>, there is a lot of time devoted to school, but they do have extracirricular interests too. I would agree that Asians play a lot of Warcraft and that the <i>average</i> native-born East Asian-American kid is not a grindout. In my view, East/South Asian-Americans represent a well balanced middle ground between the super rigorous east and the overly lax rest of the world. I think everyone would benefit from acting more like them. <br /><br />Within America, everybody slacks off so much that East Asian-Americans look like workaholics in comparison. Realistically, East-Asian Americans just tend to be more sensibly conscientious, while non-domestic Asians are truly workaholic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52417384002954475392011-01-08T19:19:29.405-08:002011-01-08T19:19:29.405-08:00"I could be wrong but I think most of the inn..."I could be wrong but I think most of the innovative minds of 19th century Germany were gentile Germans. Perhaps, this great achievement is what filled Germans with such pride and made them so resentful of being outdone by Jews in the 20th century."<br /><br />That is correct. Jews contributed far out of proportion to their percentage of the population (they were very big in banking, the area that caused by far the most resentment) but the technological achievements in Germany were not dependent on them. The "Nazi" scientists that Russia and the U.S. fought over after WWII were obviously not Jews. In America the were part of Project Paper Clip in Project Paperclip (which led to the development of NASA and the "space race" Remember the famous line in the "Right Stuff." Americans shocked after Sputnik went into space, sputtering "but our Germans are better than their Germans!"<br />IMO the Jews probably made Germany more interesting culturally, but Germany's tech achievements long preceded Jewish involvement. German speaking populations were inventing clocks in the 13th century and automotons in the 16th century. There's a long history of mechanical inclination and interest in abstract science among German speakers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78053307796636335602011-01-08T19:12:56.148-08:002011-01-08T19:12:56.148-08:00"The following used to be regarded as critica..."The following used to be regarded as critical thinking:<br /><br /><br />"We believe in one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is love."<br /><br /><br />Um, that is catechism, which means "echo". So, no, they were upfront in saying that they expected the catechumen to say/repeat it. <br /><br />Belief is something else. <br /><br />Repeating it may lead to belief.<br /><br />I think we know that repeating doesn't always lead to belief, because we are here reading because we didn't believe the standard line on some subjects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com