tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post5803318283664377876..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Who is rich?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37533371427479375272010-12-12T14:22:43.542-08:002010-12-12T14:22:43.542-08:00I think you are all missing a very important eleme...I think you are all missing a very important element of this tax debate. <br /><br />Let's consider the the facts: for the last few decades, the Republicans and Democrats have ossified tax policy in basically two directions, at least from the perspective of public consumption:<br /><br />1) The Democrats only want to raise taxes for the rich.<br /><br />2) The Republicans want to lower taxes across the board.<br /><br />What is the logical conclusion of this policy stance? That taxes for the middle and working classes should not have gone up for decades.<br /><br />Is that the case? No.<br /><br />Working class and middle class people have seen their taxes rising in the same period that Democrats promised tax increases on only the rich, while Republicans promised tax decreases for everyone. In addition, for the majority of those decades, the Legislative Branch, and thus the taxing authority, has been controlled by Democrats.<br /><br />What does this mean?<br /><br />It means that Democrats have routinely lied about taxing the rich. They don't believe in it. In all the years that Democrats have controlled Congress, they have actually imposed tax increases on middle class and working class people, not the rich.<br /><br />In practice, the Democrat "soak the rich policy" is in effect a "soak the middle class" policy.<br />That's what you would expect since the Democratic Party is the Party of the rich and the poor.Truth(er)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87677417331704924972010-12-11T05:48:37.795-08:002010-12-11T05:48:37.795-08:00Or how about this: I'm not willing to accept ...Or how about this: I'm not willing to accept a nickel of new taxes for anyone until I get a verifiable government audit of where the tax money is going, including where the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU" rel="nofollow">1.3 trillion that went missing from the pentagon</a> went. <br /><br />The idea of "the rich vs. the rest of us" is a distraction. The real issue is Wall St. vs. Main St. Parasitic finance capital vs. real production.<br /><br />In the meantime, someone please give me a reason why I should believe that ALL the richest people in the world are New Money. Slim, Gates, Turner, Buffett. Not ONE old money family slipped through the cracks? Maybe it's the dynamism of capitalism? I wish the supply of Bridges in Brooklyn could meet demand.Paul DeRenonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79840380381900311762010-12-10T20:14:42.239-08:002010-12-10T20:14:42.239-08:00Anonymous:
Lots of brilliant, talented people are...Anonymous:<br /><br />Lots of brilliant, talented people aren't that good at business, or aren't very good negotiators. And they often don't make a big pile of money, even when they're amazingly brilliant creative people, or scientists who ultimately change the world. <br /><br />Indeed, my impression is that the folks who are having the biggest long-term impact on the world are scientists, who usually don't make a whole lot of money. (Some do, and that's a good thing, but most don't get rich, even if they do really important, world-changing stuff.) <br /><br />By contrast, any number of highly successful salesmen, lawyers, and financiers seem to me to be taking their impressive gifts and using them to enrich themselves, usually without doing much for the rest of the world. That's fine--they don't owe me anything--but I also don't owe them anything.none of the abovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89466941890336129162010-12-10T10:09:29.835-08:002010-12-10T10:09:29.835-08:00"Never met any arrogant rich people? You have...<i>"Never met any arrogant rich people? You have clearly never been down frat row of a large southern university. Or check out the website "TFM" where these guys gloat about their inherited wealth."</i><br /><br />I didn't say or write that. <br /><br />Try reading what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. <br /><br />I'm no fan of frat boys, sorority girls or posters who attribute sentiments to me that I did not express, all of whom seem equally arrogant to me.Kylienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56631791296833955482010-12-10T09:14:51.099-08:002010-12-10T09:14:51.099-08:00"Homogenity, low amounts of poor people, low ...<i>"Homogenity, low amounts of poor people, low labor supply, cheap land...yeah, all characteristics of the U.S.A."</i><br /><br />They used to be, back in the good old days.Kylienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17372722965926592702010-12-09T23:10:59.939-08:002010-12-09T23:10:59.939-08:00"In any conventional economic calculation, th...<i>"In any conventional economic calculation, the value of human capital seems to be taken as a constant."</i><br /><br />No, wrong. The open borders lobby certainly knows how to argue about the importance of highly skilled workers to the American economy: 'all the Indians in Silicon Valley' and all that.<br /><br />The flipside is never discussed, or even allowed to be discussed. Immigrants can always make us smarter, or harder working, or give us better family values. They can never make us dumber, or lazier, or more dysfunctional.Captain Jack Aubreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24939202074171088282010-12-09T21:31:35.175-08:002010-12-09T21:31:35.175-08:00"Of course you "can't", because..."Of course you "can't", because the number would be unimpressive,"<br /><br />I can think of 4 in the past year:<br /><br />One white Cuban from Miami who has been unemployed for over a year.<br /><br />One tatted up white guy who lost the use of half his body in a motorcycle crash 5 years ago.<br /><br />One Ventura county Republican who has a special needs daughter who has been in and out of the hospital since she was born.<br /><br />Another guy who got a minor injury at work and has been milking it for two years on disability.<br /><br /><br />Three of these people are generally nice people that I like, yet they are all on this mouthbreathing Ron Paul pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps thing that is just ridiculous looking at their current situation.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14265591608637899332010-12-09T20:14:08.861-08:002010-12-09T20:14:08.861-08:00Speaking ot that, I cannot tell you just how many ...<i>Speaking ot that, I cannot tell you just how many proud, whte tea-partier types I've met who are on disabillity and unemployment recently.</i><br /><br />Of course you "can't", because the number would be unimpressive, and you "can't" admit anything that wouldn't support your crypto-leftist babble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14162683619240363672010-12-09T19:07:47.832-08:002010-12-09T19:07:47.832-08:00"I haven't known any billionaires but I a..."I haven't known any billionaires but I agree with the rest of this. The rich people I've known thought they could pretty much get anything they wanted--and they expected to have to pay for it. The poor people I've known also thought they could pretty much get anything they wanted--and they expected others to have to pay for it. "<br /><br />Never met any arrogant rich people? You have clearly never been down frat row of a large southern university. Or check out the website "TFM" where these guys gloat about their inherited wealth.<br /><br />I agree that poor people are often just as arrogant though. Older rural poor people aren't, but they are a rapidly dissapearing demographic.<br /><br />It's the middle and upper middle class who are being squeezed most disproportionately.BamaResidentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50687720206477008182010-12-09T16:10:02.784-08:002010-12-09T16:10:02.784-08:00Half Sigma sez:
> The real productive work is ...Half Sigma sez:<br /><br />> The real productive work is done by workers making a lot less than $250,000/year<br /><br />No. Gotta be blunt here...but matchstation.com is the work of a journeyman programmer. It is not Google. It is not even a decent web startup. It is mediocrity.<br /><br />Now, mediocrity cannot understand talent. But talent is real, talent exists, and talent is necessary to take something from a flat $0 to a $100MM or more run rate.<br /><br />Half Sigma refuses to believe that it is his own laziness and lack of ability that has kept him a mediocrity. Instead he wants to blame someone else. Those above him must have cheated. They couldn't be smarter, better organized, and harder working. He should spend their money. Listen to him, for he has a blog and can complain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13506058117890590642010-12-09T15:52:38.329-08:002010-12-09T15:52:38.329-08:00airtommy said
>we've been depleting our hu...airtommy said<br /><br />>we've been depleting our human capital<<br /><br />A point not to be forgotten.<br /><br />In any conventional economic calculation, the value of human capital seems to be taken as a constant. That would be a fundamental error, one so significant that it could possibly wreck a country - and might even be wrecking ours now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48611573631323911372010-12-09T13:43:26.356-08:002010-12-09T13:43:26.356-08:00Random reactions:
Another unintended consequence ...Random reactions: <br />Another unintended consequence of the Income Tax, enacted after the constitiution was amended to allow it in 1913, is that it paved the way for Prohibition. Till then, the federal government depended on liquor taxes for about a third of its revenue. Of course, some say that this was an <i>intended</i> consequence<br /><br />Mick Jagger is a tax exile.<br /><br />What bugs me about taxes is not the rates but the use of the tax code to attempt to influence my behavior. We get bribes, uh, "tax credits" or deductions if we engage in behavior X or avoid behavior Y. When did a once-free people decide that they could be flucked for bucks like that?Jim Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912710881278409532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55378091214118750672010-12-09T12:35:28.211-08:002010-12-09T12:35:28.211-08:00I agree with the tithe guy, government has no busi...I agree with the tithe guy, government has no business stealing more than a small fraction of a man's sweat.<br /><br />As for paying down our debt, well, the gubbmint has a lot of assets. They're what bankruptcy's for. E.g., the feds own about half, maybe more, of the real estate in the western U.S. Why listen to the mewling about the debt until that's been sold off? What does a used aircraft carrier get you?Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70786445990229814032010-12-09T12:23:39.840-08:002010-12-09T12:23:39.840-08:00@Captain Jack: Where do you think capital for long...<i>@Captain Jack: Where do you think capital for long-term investment comes from? The reality is that after a (potential) 35% haircut from income, the investor then deploys the remaining capital into investments that are subsequently taxed at 15% (or a much higher rate if sold before reaching a one-year holding period). Then we all get the shaft at death when the estate tax – an even higher rate – kicks in (and, yes, I know that the estate tax is 0% this year, and the tax, when implemented, is on a marginal amount of net worth).</i><br /><br />Even I know that your investor does not pay a 15% rate on that remaining capital.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52767336187329759792010-12-09T12:07:37.630-08:002010-12-09T12:07:37.630-08:00Given how unwilling Steve seems to subsidize those...<i>Given how unwilling Steve seems to subsidize those who have less earning power than him, I'm not sure why he thinks A-Rod should have to subsidize him.<br /><br />The same goes for the rest of you populists. Wanting to live off other people is disgraceful, assuming you're not too mentally or physically handicapped to function like an adult and support yourself.</i><br /><br />While I agree wholeheartedly that grasping for taxpayer goodies is disgraceful, I have to point out that America is now an oligarchic kleptocracy.<br /><br />How does one encourage or exhort morality in such an environment?Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18909070664940363302010-12-09T11:18:10.751-08:002010-12-09T11:18:10.751-08:00Anon:
How about wanting someone else to foot more...Anon:<br /><br />How about wanting someone else to foot more of the bill for our pointless wars, endlessly increasing medical costs for Medicare/Medicaid, billion dollar unuseful weapons systems, etc? I mean, someone must pay for this crap. Why is Sergei Brin or Bill Gates a worse person to pay for it than me?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84396264558849083032010-12-09T10:12:42.821-08:002010-12-09T10:12:42.821-08:00"You don't appear to grasp that all that ..."You don't appear to grasp that all that new diversity and poverty is NOT an asset for the US,"<br /><br />Poverty not an asset? No, you don't say.<br /><br />As far as diversity, it has always been an asset of the U.S. The land was graciously donated by the native AMERICANS, the labor was graciously donated by blacks, and but other "whites" who at the time were hardly considered white. Hitler did have to have a rationale for killing so many of you, after all, and the Germans had to have one to go along. <br /><br />Yes, there will be a donwnfall, but not for the third-grade reasons you people think that there will be, there will be a downfall, because that is what parasites do; they suck the life of the host until it runs out, than they exit for a new host. <br /><br />Your overseers have quite easily, with no effort at all, really, involved you in the oldest shell game in the history of man; they have stolen everthing you own, while simultaneously giving you "cause" to cast a jaundiced eye upon people on your financial level...and below. It says much about your general IQ, really. <br /><br />Of course, it's not anymore, and we don't have a rich country any more. <br /><br />It it isn't, what country is?<br /><br />"Wanting to live off other people is disgraceful, assuming you're not too mentally or physically handicapped to function like an adult and support yourself."<br /><br />Speaking ot that, I cannot tell you just how many proud, whte tea-partier types I've met who are on disabillity and unemployment recently.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80997386620689201732010-12-09T09:55:42.183-08:002010-12-09T09:55:42.183-08:00Steve,
What is making you change your mind on hig...Steve,<br /><br />What is making you change your mind on higher marginal tax rates for the wealthy and/or high income earners? You did seem somewhat sceptical of supply side theory or lower tax rates in the past but it seems more salient now. Why is that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45853296614144005712010-12-09T09:54:04.366-08:002010-12-09T09:54:04.366-08:00"Personally I've known a number of millio...<i>"Personally I've known a number of millionaires and at least one billionaire. They were universally better people than the poor people I knew when I was a social worker."</i><br /><br />I haven't known any billionaires but I agree with the rest of this. The rich people I've known thought they could pretty much get anything they wanted--and they expected to have to pay for it. The poor people I've known also thought they could pretty much get anything they wanted--and they expected others to have to pay for it. <br /><br />I hear a lot about the insufferable arrogance of the rich but it's nothing compared to the insufferable arrogance of the poor.Kylienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6478564908020959952010-12-09T08:38:37.595-08:002010-12-09T08:38:37.595-08:00oops, I meant 20 years both times in my post about...oops, I meant 20 years both times in my post about the hypothetical high-saving doctor, not 15 years.Mel Tormenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74913560786963066362010-12-09T07:22:11.745-08:002010-12-09T07:22:11.745-08:00Given how unwilling Steve seems to subsidize those...Given how unwilling Steve seems to subsidize those who have less earning power than him, I'm not sure why he thinks A-Rod should have to subsidize him.<br /><br />The same goes for the rest of you populists. Wanting to live off other people is disgraceful, assuming you're not too mentally or physically handicapped to function like an adult and support yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4303383953154749252010-12-09T07:11:37.162-08:002010-12-09T07:11:37.162-08:00At one time I was against highly progressive taxat...At one time I was against highly progressive taxation. After years of illegal immigration, mass immigration,war forever, bank and big business bailouts I say tax the rich until they bleed. I don't care if it produces revenue or not.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-200987352170715132010-12-09T07:07:17.006-08:002010-12-09T07:07:17.006-08:00"Outside of the east and west coast it is. 25..."<i>Outside of the east and west coast it is. 250,000 a year won't buy a deep sea fishing boat or an extra vacation home, but it's substantial enough for a nice house, nice car, nice vacations, etc.</i><br /><br />Sure, it's a decent income - it doesn't make one rich. As many have noted, income is not wealth. So, if you had a doctor who was a good saver (haha, OK, this usually doesn't happen due to the divorce, the airplane, the power-boat, and the BMW, but just hypothetically) for 20 years, and manages to put away $75,000/year after taxes and all, the guy may be considered "fairly rich" after those 15 years, with 1.5 million bucks. Even that is not really "rich", though.<br /><br /> <br />Blogger Truth said...<br /><br />"<i>Wealth is produced by: A. a homogeneous, high-trust society. B. Low amounts of poor people constantly entering the labor market. C. High wage rates (low labor supply). D. Cheap land. E. High investment in capital to leverage expensive labor.</i>"<br /><br />"<b>Homogenity, low amounts of poor people, low labor supply, cheap land...yeah, all characteristics of the U.S.A.</b>"<br /><br />Hey, sports fan, his point was that America used to be like that. Of course, it's not anymore, and we don't have a rich country any more. The wealth is being drawn down fairly quickly, just as an unemployed guy will draw down the bank account fairly quickly. <br /><br />Bad, times are a-comin', sure as my name ain't Mel Torme.Mel Tormenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52349732522639398582010-12-09T06:42:53.326-08:002010-12-09T06:42:53.326-08:00To "none of the above":
Nope, you say p...To "none of the above":<br /><br />Nope, you say people in power understand this, that we are going off a cliff with our budgets (I say this goes for personal and governments, BTW).<br /><br />I agree about the "going off a cliff" part, not the "people in power understand" part. I have been following government for 25 years or so, and I know that the only people in power that care are very few in number or the ones that are looking forward to a collapse. The can has been kicked down the road continually, and there is no getting off the track that leads off the cliff at this point.<br /><br />Any additional money from taxes that the US Government collects WILL be spent. They will only quit spending when the money runs out, which will be soon. Yeah, they can print more, but it will just delay the collapse a short time, as hyperinflation will result.<br /><br />From Anonymous:<br /><i>Isn't "rich" like talking about a position, like a location between NYC and LA; and "income" like talking about a vector such as speed. At $15 mil/year I may be going pretty fast but be located in Pittsburg. Warren Buffett is in Orange County.</i>"<br /><br />I know the point you are trying to make, but that terminology is wrong. Speed is NOT a vector - speed and direction comprise velocity, which is a vector. Speed is a scalar.<br /><br />The part of math you should present is Calculus, whereas, wealth represents the integral of income, and income, therefore, is the derivative of accumulated wealth.<br /><br />i.e. Infinitesimally small bits of income over tiny increments in time can be added (integration) to equal wealth. The instantaneous slope of wealth with time (derivative) equals the net income (whether + or -). Of course, you could get less fancy, and just say (due to finite sums, not smooth curves) that wealth is the sum of net income, added over days for instance.<br /><br />OK, just being correct about the math - I do get your point.Mel Tormenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88490012229633510862010-12-09T06:31:45.281-08:002010-12-09T06:31:45.281-08:00"Outside of the east and west coast it is. 25..."Outside of the east and west coast it is. 250,000 a year won't buy a deep sea fishing boat or an extra vacation home, but it's substantial enough for a nice house, nice car, nice vacations, etc."<br /><br />You make my point, because having a nice house, a nice car, nice vactions, etc. isn't MY definition of rich, or most peoples.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com