tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post6205068977566045412..comments2024-03-15T20:52:26.967-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Long reviews of "Coming Apart"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57405000882202409082012-02-18T13:36:24.615-08:002012-02-18T13:36:24.615-08:00A couple more examples:
Even the supposed "c...A couple more examples:<br /><br />Even the supposed "class revolution" of Russia of 1917 was in many respects an ethnic conflict of Ashkenazis vs. Ethnic Russians (for which claim a mountain of evidence is growing, including Chapter 14 of Solzhenitsyn’s recent 200 Years Together).<br /><br />Also, the supposed "class revolution" of Hungary was in many respects an ethnic conflict of Ashkenazis vs. Ethnic Hungarians, as recently noted by Paul Gottfried:<br /><br />http://www.vdare.com/articles/viktor-orban-and-the-national-question-in-hungaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84580782100969899952012-02-18T13:14:01.593-08:002012-02-18T13:14:01.593-08:00Regarding the importance of race vs. class, look a...Regarding the importance of race vs. class, look at it this way.<br /><br />Throughout human history, probably at least 80% or more of all wars have been based in ethnic hostility. <br /><br />And many other wars although apparently ideological had an ethnic basis underneath the surface (e.g. the Germanic Reformation vs. Latin Catholicism). <br /><br />How many wars have we had that were class based?<br /><br />Probably less than 1%. <br /><br />Prior to WWI, Marxists thought classes across Europe would unite and overthrow the capitalists, but the lower classes quickly aligned with the upper-classes of their co-ethnics.<br /><br />And even of the many supposed "class conflicts" of the Cold War (such as in Asia) had underlying ethnic conflicts (e.g. Slavs vs. Asians, North Asians vs. South Asians, etc.). <br /><br />As any sober observer should realize, race will almost always trump class.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31882876697202438222012-02-17T16:18:35.960-08:002012-02-17T16:18:35.960-08:00"The literate American mind has come in some ..."The literate American mind has come in some measure to think Jewishly, to respond Jewishly. It has been taught to, and its was ready to." <br /><br />This statement has to be qualified somewhat because what is 'Jewishy thought'? For there to be 'Jewishy thought', Jews first had to learn to think goyishy. Marx got his ideas from Hegel, Kafka was inspired by Kleist, and Freud was partly inspired by Nietzsche(and of course Greek mythology). So, to say something is 'Jewish thinking' is entirely kosher. It's like calling Rock music 'black music'. But for there to be 'black music', blacks had to first imitate and take ideas from white music. <br />Some blacks like to claim Jazz and Rock n Roll as purely or essentially black, just like some Jews may wish to designate modern thought as 'Jewish thought'. Jewish contribution has been immense, but it's not like Jews thought it up all by themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55143040325809619172012-02-17T13:57:08.253-08:002012-02-17T13:57:08.253-08:00@ David - It has often seemed to me that the insis...@ David - It has often seemed to me that the insistence that modern society is a meritocracy, unlike the societies of the past, contains a large element of moral vanity and unwarranted self-congratulation. <br /><br />High intelligence and strong motivation have always been necessary to climb to the commanding heights of economic and social status. A mediocrity or a fool might inherit a title or a fortune, but without applied intelligence could not maintain high position. History is replete with stories of high-born failures (e.g., Philip, first duke of Wharton, "Mad Jack" Mytton), and of the successes of smart and diligent persons of obscure origins (Cardinal Wolsey, Jean-Baptiste Colbert).<br /><br />I suspect that many of the top figures in Washington or on Wall Street today would not have been able to hold their own at the courts of Lorenzo the Magnificent or Guidobaldo da Montefeltro. They'd have been thought ignorant boors. <br /><br />Success even in middle-class trades might elude them. The great Christopher Plantin (1520-1589), the first man to make a fortune as a printer and publisher, required his typesetters to know Latin, Greek, and one vulgar tongue in addition to their own - all that on top of knowing how to set type. How many of today's Ivy League professors could meet those language qualifications, to say nothing of the typographic one?Crawfurdmuirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13489870031253307062012-02-17T13:02:11.802-08:002012-02-17T13:02:11.802-08:00Ever try to read non-Jewish conservative sites? It...<i>Ever try to read non-Jewish conservative sites? It's almost braindead. Either Christian Zionist tripe or hammy Nietzschean posturing(so laughable).</i><br /><br />Ever heard of niches?<br /><br />There is only so much space in a niche.<br /><br />A smart guy who keeps other smart guys out and only lets in dumb guys who agree with him is pursuing a successful strategy for that niche.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20800815158769516982012-02-17T07:55:12.613-08:002012-02-17T07:55:12.613-08:00Anonymous 2/16/12 7:25 PM = Frum?
Murray's th...Anonymous 2/16/12 7:25 PM = Frum?<br /><br />Murray's thesis is based on the assumption that America is a cognitive meritocracy. I'm not sure this assumption is true. There are too many counter-examples. Many of the people at the top (I'm thinking of Wall Street and Washington DC) seem to be little more than glib morons whose lives are centered on log-rolling. This of course indicates that they have organizational ability, of a kind; but there the certainties end.<br /><br />I am more impressed by Hunsdon's first comment here (2/16/12 8:17 AM) than by any of the reviews.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49687146075196060302012-02-17T06:57:45.347-08:002012-02-17T06:57:45.347-08:00“Even America, which has had a significant Jewish ...“Even America, which has had a significant Jewish presence for only the last century, has been enormously influenced by Jews. The theater critic Walter Kerr, writing as early as 1968, demonstrated the integration of Jews into the mainstream American life by describing not Jewish acculturation to gentile culture, but rather gentile adaptation to Jewish patterns of thought: ‘What has happened since World War II is that the American sensibility itself has become part Jewish, perhaps nearly as much Jewish as it is anything else."<br /><br />Culture of Critique is just more interesting and provocative. I'm no fan of Jewish power, but I find most Jews more interesting to read than non-Jews(with few exceptions, Sailer being the most notable). Ever try to read non-Jewish conservative sites? It's almost braindead. Either Christian Zionist tripe or hammy Nietzschean posturing(so laughable). <br /><br />And who is the most interesting writer at Alt Right? Paul Gottfried, a Jew.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-63923932851938026662012-02-17T06:50:27.170-08:002012-02-17T06:50:27.170-08:00Was astonished to see this grammatical error on p....Was astonished to see this grammatical error on p. 101: <br /><br />"The United States comprises a patchwork of many subcultures, and the members of any one of them is ignorant about and isolated from the others to some degree."<br /><br />Members is? Perhaps Mr. Murray is imitating the verbal behavior of the plebs as an object lesson. That must be it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8950104070164682212012-02-17T06:35:43.047-08:002012-02-17T06:35:43.047-08:00Good stuff, Crawfordmuir.
Most conservative/react...Good stuff, Crawfordmuir.<br /><br /><i>Most conservative/reactionary thinkers worth reading are "superfluous men" in the sense Nock was.</i><br /><br />And Nock certainly is worth reading. <i>Our Enemy, the State</i> was excellent.ben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21314837274294797982012-02-17T06:34:57.206-08:002012-02-17T06:34:57.206-08:00Everybody keeps talking about the white middle cla...Everybody keeps talking about the white middle class but not the elite. Who are these elites? They are different than the elite of 1960. Like Gerlernter says in his 1997 essay, “How the Intellectuals took Over,” “today's elite loathes the nation it rules” and why is that? Gerlernter says,"The old elite used to get on fairly well with the country it was set over. Members of the old social upper-crust elite were richer and better educated than the public at large, but approached life on basically the same terms. The public went to church and so did they. The public went into the army and so did they. The public staged simpler weddings and the elite put on fancier ones, but they mostly all used the same dignified words and no one self-expressed." <br />The new Elite is different, the New Elite does not serve in the military, despises the haptic sense (unless it has to do with sex or excretion) meaning they do nothing with their hands; But mainly this New elite loathes the nation it rules because it is culturally foreign. At the same time it has plenty of ambitious natives,wannabe epigones who want to be just like the Intellectuals. They provide demographic cover for the Culturally Foreign.<br />But this new elite has very different values from the white middle class. The New Elite are intellectuals, love slight verbal distinctions that they can use to fool the slower, duller witted white middle class with their main tool, the confusopoly strategy. They present their solutions and products in language that is so Rube Goldbergish(ha ha) that normal people’s eyes glaze over in exhaustion at the verbal gymnastics they have to undergo to merely understand how to use a new product or to understand a social solution to our bigger social problems. Scott Adams(Dilbert) calls it the new economy of Confusopolies. Just make everything so complicated that the polite response is "Huh? You lost me” but it might as well be “That’s bulls**t.”<br />The New Elite has the obvious mental ability and verbal agility ability to simplify their ideas and programs, to shave with Occam's razor, but they prefer complexity because they want to limit membership in their club and this way they always have the fallback position of “I didn’t say that.” Exclusivity and verbal double meaning go hand in hand.<br />The recent gay marriage, Ninth circuit decision is a great example of the way the New Elite works. they said(I think)'You cannot use a majority vote of all the people in a Democracy(WTF?) to take back an existing civil right?' Gimmee a break, I thought democracy came before anything else. <br />It is these kind of verbal gymnastics that hve been used by the New Elite to denigrate and mock the white middle class. <br />Why are the stats on the white middle class down from 1960? because the New Elite loathes the white middle class, mocks it every chance they get and the white middle class gets it.<br />In their kitchens the white middle class says "Alright,alright, we get it,we aren't part of this country any more, we understand, we no longer care"Conatushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12543138570489872681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55168256001015615212012-02-17T06:25:30.720-08:002012-02-17T06:25:30.720-08:00The decline of religious faith is part of the gene...<i>The decline of religious faith is part of the general assault of our elite on the rest of us. </i><br /><br />Indeed.<br /><br /><i>Religion in general(and Christianity in particular) emphasizes social solidarity and tends to oppose the acquisitive individualism characteristic of capitalist elites....</i><br /><br />And the erosion of such communal restrictions is well documented in R. H. Tawney’s<i> Religion and the Rise of Capitalism</i>. It's a classic, and I recommend it highly.ben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-77786116930328068332012-02-16T19:25:25.463-08:002012-02-16T19:25:25.463-08:00I guess the other question is whether he actually ...<i>I guess the other question is whether he actually wrote the review, or just hired someone to do that as well...</i><br /><br />Well it doesn't really make sense that he would just hire someone to read books for him, without the reader at least preparing notes or outlining the books in written form.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60240389034174210182012-02-16T19:17:37.918-08:002012-02-16T19:17:37.918-08:00I didn't think much of what I read from Frum. ...I didn't think much of what I read from Frum. He got Malthusianism completely backwards (higher wages led to more children, Malthus did not advocate a welfare state). He appears to have misrepresented Murray's position on the political leanings of the elite. And there isn't that much relationship between wages (which Murray's book points out haven't changed much) and labor force participation. What we've seen is rather obviously a story of changing male-female relationships and hence the role of men.<br /><br />I would be interested in seeing the data he references about changing crime & marriage rates in the previous half of the 20th century.TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48637973031946800152012-02-16T17:40:30.366-08:002012-02-16T17:40:30.366-08:00I wonder if Frum actually read the book...
Some y...I wonder if Frum actually read the book...<br /><br />Some years back, I heard from a *very* knowledgeable source that Frum used to go around DC bragging that he didn't bother reading books, but---since he came from a rich family---just hired people to read them for him.<br /><br />I guess the other question is whether he actually wrote the review, or just hired someone to do that as well...RKUnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-85521573707706639182012-02-16T17:32:46.706-08:002012-02-16T17:32:46.706-08:00"A corollary of Murray's thesis is that t..."A corollary of Murray's thesis is that these hard science majors are dumber than the humanities and other soft discipline majors. This is false, therefore Murray's thesis is false."<br /><br />Extrapolating further leads to the conclusion that we are dominated by higher IQ verbally fluent grifters. ;0)dogzmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52134489505175815242012-02-16T17:28:49.851-08:002012-02-16T17:28:49.851-08:00"But quite unwilling to do so with a populati..."But quite unwilling to do so with a population that evinces the same characteristics as regards you (let's call you "whitey," for short), as you do with Blacks for example."<br /><br />Could you capitalize "Whitey," the way you did "Blacks," please?JSMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30478320227096975042012-02-16T17:20:17.181-08:002012-02-16T17:20:17.181-08:00Steve, all of these trends are exacerbated by asso...Steve, all of these trends are exacerbated by assortive mating. <br /><br />Two generations ago, Men with an IQ in the top 5% would routinely marry women of average IQ. <br /><br />If anything, the current economic insecurity is increasing the assortive mating trends.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82599328421356270042012-02-16T16:25:40.869-08:002012-02-16T16:25:40.869-08:00They are so underrepresented that this data alone ...<i>They are so underrepresented that this data alone falsifies Murray’s primary explanation.</i><br /><br />Good point. <br /><br />Murray's thesis is falsified by this data. <br /><br />A corollary of Murray's thesis is that these hard science majors are dumber than the humanities and other soft discipline majors. This is false, therefore Murray's thesis is false.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61360724857481540722012-02-16T15:24:05.530-08:002012-02-16T15:24:05.530-08:00Are elites more segregated today? I am not sure bu...Are elites more segregated today? I am not sure but I grew up in a large midwestern city. When I was in high school in the 1970s I had an internship with the international group of the largest bank in the city. I got the job because the senior vice president (who was the number 3 or 4 man at the bank) was the neighbor of the high school teacher who got me the gig. Could anything like that would happen now?Larry, San Francisconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31679093364084784172012-02-16T15:00:38.186-08:002012-02-16T15:00:38.186-08:00"The income of the American middle class has ..."The income of the American middle class has gone up substantially since 1960."<br /><br />Male median income is flat since 1970. Female median income is up by 70%:<br /><br />http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/the-great-male-stagnation.htmlMercernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34646298302185040052012-02-16T14:37:15.317-08:002012-02-16T14:37:15.317-08:00"a collapse in the pay and conditions of work..."a collapse in the pay and conditions of work"<br /><br />David Frum accepts anything that the liberal establishment accepts. <br /><br />In fact, there has been no "collapse" in wages. The income of the American middle class has gone up substantially since 1960.<br /><br />http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12485<br /><br />The CBO shows that real median household income went up 35% 1970-2008. Before 1960-1970 you had rapid income growth. <br /><br />Moreover, only an idiot thinks the government is smaller now than 1960. <br /><br />Frum is a shallow thinker who increasingly identifies with the left.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43201858381875401262012-02-16T14:25:43.822-08:002012-02-16T14:25:43.822-08:00"But Frum obviously cannot admit that bad pay...<i>"But Frum obviously cannot admit that bad pay and bad conditions follow ceaseless immigration and outsourcing."</i><br /><br />The David Frum of your imagination is quite different from the David Frum of the real world.<br /><br />"Ending illegal immigration benefits economy""<br />http://cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/03/frum.immigration.education/index.html<br /><br />"global trade rules do not apply to subsidies created by monetary means. Through this anomaly, the U.S. has outsourced more jobs than it would have if China's currency had moved freely, like the euro or the yen. It's time for the U.S. to reconsider its casual attitude to monetary manipulation."<br />http://cnn.com/2011/12/12/opinion/frum-obama-speech/index.htmlbeowulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14987548132065830204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65582599147317898002012-02-16T14:20:11.152-08:002012-02-16T14:20:11.152-08:00Rainer is right in saying "It would indeed be...Rainer is right in saying "It would indeed be useful to define the intelligentsia as a social class in itself, with a particular power base (the ability to manufacture public consent) and particular economical interests (living directly or indirectly from state subsidies), and to regard the conservative intellectual not as a heretic but as a class traitor."<br /><br />The top 5 to 10% of the American population as ranked by income and wealth is a mixture of entrepreneurs, rentiers, and the intelligentsia. There is no agreement on common principles amongst these people, though they may share common tastes and habits. <br /><br />One faction constitutes what might be called a "courtier" party, in which a social-engineering intelligenstia-elite collaborates with a rent-seeking economic elite drawn primarily from the financial industry; each, for its own reasons, seeks control of people through goverment compulsion. Their view is typified by the editorial page of the New York Times. <br /><br />The other faction, a "country" party made up of entrepreneurs and investors, sees laissez-faire economics and prefers a smaller government. This faction's view is represented by the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal. <br /><br />It is worth noting that more of the actual powers-that-be on Wall Street (e.g., Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Diamond, and their respective institutions) concur with the New York Times world view than not. They are both suitably positioned and unscrupulous enough to game the system of government to create rent-seeking opportunities for themselves. The Wall Street Journal is more likely to represent that of the country banker and businessman, who are neither . <br /><br />Angelo Codevilla's book "The Ruling Class" further explores the division between our modern court and country parties. It might usefully be read in conjunction with Murray's writings.<br /><br />The struggle between the two elite factions follows the pattern Vilfredo Pareto outlined in "The Rise and Fall of Elites." Clearly, in these terms, the intelligentsia is the ascendant elite, whereas the independent entrepreneur and investor reflect the manners and mores of the old bourgeoisie, and constitute parts of an elite faction that has been declining for the past eighty years. <br /><br />The attacks of the intelligentsia on the "top 1%", cast in class-warfare terms, its apologia for the constant misbehavior of the black underclass, and its promotion of race replacement through unlimited immigration, are all habits acquired in the course of its struggle against the declining bourgeois elite. As Sam Francis reminded us, egalitarianism almost never reflects an actual wish for everyone to be equal in condition. It is a tool used by a rising, would-be elite to cast down an established elite that it despises and seeks to supplant.<br /><br />The "conservative intellectual" may be viewed by the intelligentsia as a class traitor, but really doesn't belong to the intelligentsia at all. It is worthwhile to remember that "intelligentsia" was originally a Russian word that denoted a particular category of educated persons. Perhaps we might borrow another term from the Russians to describe the conservative intellectual - "superfluous man." Albert Jay Nock, the proto-libertarian philosopher, friend of William F. Buckley, Sr., and moral exemplar to William F. Buckley, Jr., entitled his autobiography "Memoirs of a Superfluous Man." Most conservative/reactionary thinkers worth reading are "superfluous men" in the sense Nock was. Even WFB, Jr. fit this description, until his craven sell-out, late in life, to the neocon branch of the intelligentsia.crawfurdmuirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45441125145139269092012-02-16T14:06:29.169-08:002012-02-16T14:06:29.169-08:00Sunbeam said: However you want to criticize Murra...Sunbeam said: However you want to criticize Murray, is anything wrong with the thesis that the "cognitively gifted" are more or less voluntarily segregating themselves from the rest of society?<br /><br />And that they are increasingly marrying and having children with others of the same social status?<br /><br />Hunsdon replied: Cognitively gifted is not a social class.Hunsdonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82731185090441873752012-02-16T14:00:35.132-08:002012-02-16T14:00:35.132-08:00europeasant wrote: "Perhaps someone can find ...europeasant wrote: "Perhaps someone can find out what happens to high IQ children who have no jobs or have low paying jobs and will be stuck in poverty?"<br /><br />They are the people who go to grad school. It makes poverty slightly less embarrassing, but only for a little while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com