tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post6306752014485099854..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Sotomayor on RicciUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4465234547560685462009-06-07T18:40:18.070-07:002009-06-07T18:40:18.070-07:00Also there may be a benefit in that blacks and His...<i>Also there may be a benefit in that blacks and Hispanics might respect the firefighters more if they have blacks and Hispanics among the leadership.-- quote</i><br /><br />I have no problem with this line or argument per se. However organisations making parallel arguments have historically been denounced in the most vicious terms imaginable when white males are the group designated for favouritism. Just recall the clothing store chain with its "frat boy" (I cannot recall its name) image being accused of purposefully staffing its stores with young white male employees. It was not permitted to argue (either morally or legally) that it wanted to hire employees matching its intended customer base. Under contemporary politically correct morality, if we switch white with non-white in our arguments, right becomes wrong and vice versa, although this is seldom spelled out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25259996282523334852009-06-07T09:09:03.348-07:002009-06-07T09:09:03.348-07:00She would inevitably know that historically, NAMs ...She would inevitably know that historically, NAMs do worse on standardized tests than whites and Asians. The interesting policy question, IMO, is between:<br /><br />a. Believing that the tests don't really measure what matters. In this case, you have a pretty arbitrary way of selecting people to be promoted that happens to favor whites. The only issue is balancing fairness to whites who won the arbitrary selections (and ought not to have their win taken away lightly) vs. fairness to blacks who were subjected to an arbitrary selection process that was biased against them. In this case, it's 100% sensible to rule against the plaintiffs. <br /><br />b. Believing that the tests really do measure what matters. In this case, you have to balance wa more diverse workforce at the fire department with an effective fire department. In this case, the situation is way harder to deal with, and depends on how you weigh those competing concerns. <br /><br />I suspect Sotomayor believes (a), but it's obviously impossible to know for sure. Similarly, most of the decisionmakers in our society seem to believe (a) or some near variant of it. That explains their support for continuing various forms of AA. <br /><br />Fighting that is hard, because disbelieving (a) translates into racism by many definitions of that word, and hardly anyone wants to be called a racist. Also, the issue is somewhat complex, which allows arguments that are full of holes (like Gould's book) to reassure doubters.none of the abovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44312053380997278182009-06-04T01:48:20.660-07:002009-06-04T01:48:20.660-07:00Also there may be a benefit in that blacks and His...<i>Also there may be a benefit in that blacks and Hispanics might respect the firefighters more if they have blacks and Hispanics among the leadership.</i>-- quote<br /><br />Thanks for admitting that blacks and hispanics are anti-white racists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41340479667202493502009-06-03T14:44:14.887-07:002009-06-03T14:44:14.887-07:00"Uh, did you see her major and thesis at Prin..."Uh, did you see her major and thesis at Princeton? She was basically doing 'ethnic studies,' which is a totally meaningless major, while not engaging in Latino activism."<br /><br />Correction, that should be: , when she wasn't busy engaging in Latino activism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81244631597318673262009-06-03T11:21:48.721-07:002009-06-03T11:21:48.721-07:00"The allegation that she lacks intellectual q..."The allegation that she lacks intellectual qualifications is pretty empty. She graduated summa from Princeton. Even if she got in under some AA scheme, she would still have to prove herself, which she did. She went to the best law school in the country, and again, even if she got in under AA, to make Law Review requires real substance. It's a stupid argument."<br /><br />Uh, did you see her major and thesis at Princeton? She was basically doing 'ethnic studies,' which is a totally meaningless major, while not engaging in Latino activism. Also, Law Reviews at prestigious law schools, like Yale and Harvard, have affirmative action slots, so all we can say about her selection to law review is that she did well compared to other NAMs.<br /><br />"On the whole subject of testing, has any research been done to try and pinpoint which questions in particular have racial bias in them? Does that even happen, or is it just a holistic sort of thing?"<br /><br />Yes, psychometricians have been looking into this for a long time. See e.g., A. R. Jensen's "Bias in Mental Testing." Also see anything by Linda Gottfredson (all her papers are open-access on her site). Basically, bias (in the sense of inaccurate prediction of performance) has been virtually eliminated from psychometric tests for a long time now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68512177460062609392009-06-02T20:21:22.940-07:002009-06-02T20:21:22.940-07:00Are there any other white males who would feel unc...Are there any other white males who would feel uncomfortable having Sotomayer adjudicate their case from the bench? <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Sotomayer might be the first *openly* prejudiced member of the Supreme Court. At some point in the future, if present trends dont cease, white males will cease being such good productive citizens in light of state-sacntioned-contempt towards them. Civilization will be poorer for it. MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-977741236830891842009-06-02T19:47:42.757-07:002009-06-02T19:47:42.757-07:00"This may be Obama's March to Moscow.&quo..."This may be Obama's March to Moscow."<br /><br />And we all know what happened to that place, don't we? This nation is a tinderbox.<br /><br />6/02/2009<br />-------------<br /><br /><br />Ya, but the Russinas don't want him either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22780527453717409792009-06-02T19:29:12.809-07:002009-06-02T19:29:12.809-07:00put's?put's?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22651681150575951862009-06-02T18:36:51.416-07:002009-06-02T18:36:51.416-07:00--Firefighting is not rocket science. Because of t...--Firefighting is not rocket science. Because of the pay and benefits of the job most firefighters are over qualified. It may be unfair to use race to promote but it is probably not dangerous. Also there may be a benefit in that blacks and Hispanics might respect the firefighters more if they have blacks and Hispanics among the leadership.--<br /><br /><br />Playing basketball in the NBA is not rocket science. Because of the pay and benefits of the job most of the players are over qualified. It may be unfair to use race to promote but it is probably not dangerous. Also there may be a benefit in that whites and Asians might respect professional basketball teams more if they have white and Asians among the lead players.Zylonetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91998950850907109132009-06-02T16:52:40.931-07:002009-06-02T16:52:40.931-07:00Okay, so now we find out the DOJ has decided that ...Okay, so now we find out the DOJ has decided that the state of Georgia cannot implement its verification of citizenship for voter registration. Did you see that? The Georgia law allowed the secretary of state to use drivers' license and social security databases and the DOJ ruled it was a "no no"--it supposedly is unfair to certain people. <br /><br />How the hell can the DOJ argue this is discriminatory? <br /><br />Had I not abandoned my fatuous, vacuous liberal ideas a decade ago, I surely would upon reading this. I now understand why people have been working to preserve the second amendment. <br /><br />This all makes me long for Tony Soprano. Where are the real men, the alphas, when you need them? (Apologies to Steve, whom I do see as an alpha male--wish there were more like him.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47644015551390843142009-06-02T15:04:27.672-07:002009-06-02T15:04:27.672-07:00"People who take a contrary view are called "conse..."People who take a contrary view are called "conservatives", or maybe "ultra-conservatives".<br /><br />Actually back in the civil rights days, I believed and affirmed that people should be treated as individuals and not discriminated against because of their race in employment, housing, schooling, etc. For my beliefs, I was called a "N-word loving communist" by people who disagreed with me. Forty years later I still believe the same thing and am called a "racist" by people who disagree with me. Don't times change!<br /><br />The only thing that should matter is that this test has questions that are practical and relevant to firefighting. I can understand doubting what questions like "Green is to yellow as X is to red" might have to do with the job; but the only question that I have seen aired had to do with what combination of various lengths of firehose you needed to reach a certain height. <br /><br />That's a very relevant question if you have to fight fires in buildings over a certain height, like apartment buildings. <br /><br />It should stand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14122053737357686952009-06-02T13:54:13.957-07:002009-06-02T13:54:13.957-07:00"Mandatory, overt discrimination against White Men..."Mandatory, overt discrimination against White Men in a deep, lasting recession with no other employment but Government, is not politically sustainable."<br /><br />Recession? We're headed for a DEPRESSION, boyo. <br /><br />"This may be Obama's March to Moscow."<br /><br />And we all know what happened to that place, don't we? This nation is a tinderbox.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81563418403223597102009-06-02T13:51:48.555-07:002009-06-02T13:51:48.555-07:00When did "Puerto Rican" become a race??.......
I ...When did "Puerto Rican" become a race??.......<br /><br />I dunno, kind of like a "Jet" and "Shark" thing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71822625951611961642009-06-02T13:29:10.202-07:002009-06-02T13:29:10.202-07:00The question is not Ricci.
IT is everything else ...The question is not Ricci.<br /><br />IT is everything else in Obama's Government run economy.<br /><br />Mandatory, overt discrimination against White Men in a deep, lasting recession with no other employment but Government, is not politically sustainable.<br /><br />This may be Obama's March to Moscow.testing99noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28627671065049846842009-06-02T12:34:20.517-07:002009-06-02T12:34:20.517-07:00Anonymous said...
Firefighting is not rocket scie...Anonymous said... <br />Firefighting is not rocket science. Because of the pay and benefits of the job most firefighters are over qualified. It may be unfair to use race to promote but it is probably not dangerous. Also there may be a benefit in that blacks and Hispanics might respect the firefighters more if they have blacks and Hispanics among the leadership.<br /><br />6/02/2009<br />--------------<br /><br />You are fool. Nobody cares what color your skin is when ur a$$ is on fire. They just want someone to put you out. Preferably the best and quickest someone possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37830731084744237662009-06-02T11:27:03.231-07:002009-06-02T11:27:03.231-07:00Firefighting is not rocket science. Because of th...Firefighting is not rocket science. Because of the pay and benefits of the job most firefighters are over qualified. It may be unfair to use race to promote but it is probably not dangerous. Also there may be a benefit in that blacks and Hispanics might respect the firefighters more if they have blacks and Hispanics among the leadership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61584334456811981552009-06-02T10:27:02.273-07:002009-06-02T10:27:02.273-07:00As an aside, I have softened my stance on Sotomayo...As an aside, I have softened my stance on Sotomayor. She was an obvious quota pick with a mediocre intellect and an anti-white chip on her shoulder, <br /><br /><br /><br />When did "Puerto Rican" become a race??.......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-847963133267831922009-06-02T10:23:17.543-07:002009-06-02T10:23:17.543-07:00She violated her judicial oath. She decided the ca...<I>She violated her judicial oath. She decided the case before hearing the arguments and said so from the bench. "We're not suggesting..." Sotomayor was arguing the city's case for it!</I>That's a tendentious reading of her statement. It was a three-judge panel, and those three judges (or the two judges who ultimately sided against Ricci) could be the antecedent of "we".ben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43247520391036206832009-06-02T09:51:04.400-07:002009-06-02T09:51:04.400-07:00"Notice how she states "if your test is always goi..."Notice how she states "if your test is always going to put a certain group at the bottom". This implies that she knows that NAMs will always (not just in this one particular year, on this one particular test) score at the bottom."<br /><br />BNGO. That jumped out at me too. She knows that a meaningful test could be administered over and over, and likely as not, the results would be the same or very close to the same. <br /><br />As for Sotomayor allowing her prejudice to be so easily seen through her words...I can't figure out if it's her "I don't give a damn" attitude or if she is simply not all that bright.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78229076975333611012009-06-02T09:39:09.253-07:002009-06-02T09:39:09.253-07:00"again, why not just point out that monoethnic eas..."again, why not just point out that monoethnic east asian nations excel?"<br /><br />Makes one wish that several Asian or Indian firemen (I know--not too many of those but indulge me) had taken the test. When they or they and whites were the top test scorers, what would the city have said/done then? What would the black firemen and their lawyers have said/done? Anything? Nothing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36081110557943392902009-06-02T09:31:32.374-07:002009-06-02T09:31:32.374-07:00Sotomayor is much ado about nothing. She ruled in ...Sotomayor is much ado about nothing. She ruled in the same way as 5 other judges on the panel, who were all white males. So the problem, if it exists, is not intrinsic to her as an individual.<br /><br />The allegation that she lacks intellectual qualifications is pretty empty. She graduated summa from Princeton. Even if she got in under some AA scheme, she would still have to prove herself, which she did. She went to the best law school in the country, and again, even if she got in under AA, to make Law Review requires real substance. It's a stupid argument.<br /><br />On a more fundamental level, SC appointments are largely political. No one here will be happy with most Obama appointments. Conversely, no liberal will be happy with most Republican appointments. To the victor go the spoils. <br /><br />On the whole subject of testing, has any research been done to try and pinpoint which questions in particular have racial bias in them? Does that even happen, or is it just a holistic sort of thing?<br /><br />I really wish we could see more comparisons between sports and academics. Why do people think sports tryouts in school are meritorious, but academic tests must be somehow biased? This situation is ironic, because being academically gifted and intelligent is not something that's generally portrayed as desirable in the media (compared to sports achievement). Why is it ok for one race to be better than another physically, but not intellectually?outlaw josey walesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36613949344054805472009-06-02T08:50:07.997-07:002009-06-02T08:50:07.997-07:00as, say, Chicago has done to meet the EEOC's Four-...as, say, Chicago has done to meet the EEOC's Four-Fifths Rule by passing 17,000 out of the 20,000 firefighter applicants who walked in off the street, then choosing randomly among the top 85% of the distribution.<br />----------<br /><br />If you believe it is random, I have a GM to sell you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19608523739612677932009-06-02T07:28:29.835-07:002009-06-02T07:28:29.835-07:00What is so outrageous are the presumptions by Soto...What is so outrageous are the presumptions by Sotomayor and the pundits in the media that any kind of test will do, that no particulars are required for any job, if everybody can't pass. And those who claim to the contrary are simply not people of good will. If they were, they would find a way to construct a test that would include everybody. ====<br /><br />She says:<br /><I> But if your test is always going to put a certain group at the bottom of the pass rate so they're never ever going to be promoted, and there is a fair test that could be devised that measures knowledge in a more substantive way,</I> ====<br /><br />Who is she to claim that this test isn't fair or "substantive?" I would never have been able to pass a test to become a ballerina or a concert pianist. What that tells me is that I should take myself off to other forms of employment, not that the ballet company or philharmonic orchestra should construct tests that would favor my limited talents.Victoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06823851448364528821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41868813148772522082009-06-02T06:09:04.983-07:002009-06-02T06:09:04.983-07:00"Judges just won't think logically about race."
S..."Judges just won't think logically about race."<br /><br />Sotomayor does think logically about race. That should be clear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35774641973422851972009-06-02T05:40:05.716-07:002009-06-02T05:40:05.716-07:00I wonder what would happen if a conservative judge...I wonder what would happen if a conservative judge just can't take it anymore and shouts out, "It's HBD you morons! The fact that blacks can't pass it and whites can is solid evidence for it being a fair test!"<br /><br />I can't imagine what the firestorm would be, especially if it's a high level/famous judge. It would be Watson to the tenth degree. <br /><br />I find it humorous that everyone sees the consistent data from year to year with whites at the top and blacks unable to pass. They've been informed that the test is fair by an independent organization. But they sit there puzzled, unable to rationalize the pass rate disparity. Hilarious if we didn't waste so much money on this.<br /><br />And Sotomayor accuses the lawyer of "assuming": Isn't racial egalitarianism, which shouldn't even be the null hypothesis, an assumption she's basing her decision on?OneSTDVhttp://www.onestdv.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com