tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post6326564550426167101..comments2024-03-19T02:31:02.140-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: The Syrian Jews of BrooklynUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34825866384208123912013-06-02T20:40:21.835-07:002013-06-02T20:40:21.835-07:00Who ever wrote this article has very poor informat...Who ever wrote this article has very poor information and should truly get their facts straight. <br /><br />I actually know a handful of educated Syrians. Lawyers,doctors,rabbis, teachers, nurses, engineers ect..<br />All educated, Harvard law, NYU, Wharton, Brooklyn college, FIT, Manhattan school of music. <br /><br />I have never seen a more tight knit community with several organizations to help their fellow Jews,<br />Or Jews in general. <br /><br />As far as the edict and marriage, in order for a person to convert they have to go through several years of studying about Judaism and Jewish laws. <br /><br />From what I hear, the Syrian community also feels that there is no way of telling wether the individual (who is converting) is converting for the love of the religion, which is how it should be when converting as you take on the religion and prayers and followings, versus someone who wants to be married (to a Jewish person) and needs and has to convert for those reasons than the love and belief of the religion. <br /><br />As a religious person, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39410592504851656342011-10-23T07:32:30.572-07:002011-10-23T07:32:30.572-07:00"The Syrian Jews of Brooklyn differ from Ashk..."The Syrian Jews of Brooklyn differ from Ashkenazi Jews in many ways: their birthrate is very high; their intermarriage rate with gentiles is miniscule; they show no interest in science, the arts, or ideology; they don't pursue higher education; they don't become doctors or lawyers; they don't seem concerned about making the world in general a better place; and very few Syrian Jews become celebrities. Well-known half-Syrian Jews include Jerry Seinfeld and Paula Abdul, but Dan Hedaya (an actor best known for looking like Richard Nixon) is perhaps the most famous celebrity raised in a Syrian Jewish environment."<br /><br />How ignorant can the poster be? Syrian Jews of Brooklyn do not differ at all to Ashkenazi Jews in Brooklyn in terms of anything relating to birthrates, educational attainment, etc. It is a RELIGIOUS thing, not a Syrian thing - Jews in Brooklyn do tend to be more traditional and religious compared to Jews living in the rest of the country. <br /><br />Syrian Jews in New Jersey tend to be more secular and have low birthrates, but still do not differ from Ashkenazi Jews in terms of educational attainment, income, etc. They do tend to work professional jobs and earn incomes above the national American average, just like all Jewish ethnic groups.<br /><br />As for 'very few Syrian Jews becoming celebrities', well obviously seeing as there are only around 60,000 Syrian Jews in the US compared to the at least 6 million Ashkenazi Jews living here. Use your brain please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10062013219837337712011-10-09T11:10:10.911-07:002011-10-09T11:10:10.911-07:00My thoughts and prayers to those sincere gerim who...My thoughts and prayers to those sincere gerim who wish to be a part of these communities. I could've sworn from my Syrian Yom Kippur Mahzor that one of the confessions was for not loving the ger. Thrice daily the gerei sedek are mentioned in The Amida. I wish the Chief Sephardic Rabbis would come out with an edict stating that those communities who partake in such views against sincere gerim will have no share in the Messianic times less alone World to Come.SephardicGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04337645580122890171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13188516899258462112011-10-02T17:22:48.897-07:002011-10-02T17:22:48.897-07:00Sounds like they're doing a good job of mainta...Sounds like they're doing a good job of maintaining their identity. If they keep it up, "Jewish" will be synonymous with "Syrian Jew".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30080313238488569822010-12-22T20:03:11.462-08:002010-12-22T20:03:11.462-08:00"We told her she was welcome to come back, bu..."We told her she was welcome to come back, but not with her husband or kids."<br /><br />I wonder what kind of people would honour an edict that would have a mother abandon her child? How can you even begin to stand for virtue much less Religion when you must make literally inhumane ultimatums. <br />The ironic thing is, Syrian Jews are not even good specimens in the first place; it's impossible to reason what exactly they're trying to preserve? Intelligence? Their physical beauty? They sadly have none of either.<br /><br />P.S.: When they look your way act distraught at your ineligibility to spend the rest of your life next to a falling-house-magnet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88988534816794978622010-06-04T17:21:47.052-07:002010-06-04T17:21:47.052-07:00Yet there are many Syrian Jews who deal art behind...Yet there are many Syrian Jews who deal art behind the scene. And what about the famous Syrian Jewish fashion designer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91195078079417359962010-05-26T13:55:49.961-07:002010-05-26T13:55:49.961-07:00I happen to be a Roman Catholic and to my luck, I ...I happen to be a Roman Catholic and to my luck, I happened to fall for a Syrian Jewish man. We've been dating for three years. Have I been told “RUN ", "break up with him", "date a Jew, but not a Syrian", etc., oh yes, everyday. Is it easy to leave someone you're just so connected to, and above all when you're in love with that someone? No. The older I get the harder it is. I've considered Orthodox conversion, not for marriage but to be on the same page, feel happy, make a life together and raise kids of the same faith. So you can't say it's for marriage, it's for personal belief. Yet, I know this will not be accepted by the community. I can honestly say, his parents won't find him a better match within their community, maybe a 10X richer match, but that's about it. I'm struggling all the time with this rejection, and I did nothing wrong to his parents nor do I have any "bad goy qualities". So, thanks to the Edict, people such as myself and the Syrian man I am dating suffer the consequences, but of course no one cares; this community looks at me like i'm some sort of a rock or better yet nothing. It's a really cruel and unneeded rule especially in the current world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64369425475091494012009-07-23T21:19:08.680-07:002009-07-23T21:19:08.680-07:00that is one person speaking on behalf of the entir...that is one person speaking on behalf of the entire community!!! not too mention how highly criticized he was when his comments came out. not to mention how false the idea of syrians not seeking higher education or professional jobs. I myself am attending the wharton school of business and many of my peers are attending schools just as prestigious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83018403458541121122009-07-23T14:34:27.563-07:002009-07-23T14:34:27.563-07:00Well, it looks like all of the formalities about t...Well, it looks like all of the formalities about the Syrian Jews have resulted in ttheir being exposed as actually human beings, just like any other culture group, they are not any less corrupt,nor any better, nor do you have any closer connection to God than the rest of the people all over the world, just humans with shortcommings, imperfections so..<br />your stand on the statement below cannot be justified...<br /> “Never accept a convert or a child born of a convert,” “Push them away with strong hands from our community. Why? because we don’t want gentile characteristics.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49219805524490538032008-06-17T04:04:00.000-07:002008-06-17T04:04:00.000-07:00I think that what you fail to understand is why Sy...I think that what you fail to understand is why Syrian Jews are so weary of converts. You are talking about an extremely wealthy group of people with international connections. There are strong Syrian Jewish communities in NY, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Sao Palo, and Panama City. You might be very surprised if you knew what % of the modern skylines of these cities Syrian Jews were responsible for. There is an extremely disproportionate number of Billionaires in this international community with less than 400 last names and 100,000 people. <BR/><BR/>What they are protective over is an extremely rich quality of life and standard of living where family and character are everything. Of course, some people do stray from the flock and marry who they want. The culture is lost, children start identifying themselves as ¼ or 1/8 or 3/16ths Jewish, the end result is often the infamous “Hanukah Bush.” Maybe that is acceptable to European AIPAC Jews, but not to Syrians who wish to maintain their CULTURAL characteristics. <BR/><BR/>If you wanted a comparison, maybe the best could be made to the Phillips Academy – Yale group of WASPs in Connecticut. You can be as White and Christian as you want and never be accepted after marrying into that society. Lets face it, you aren’t being allowed into Skull and Bones and most likely no one in your family ever will be. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are racist, it means they are elitist. <BR/><BR/>This group isn’t political, they shy away from the media, and they have no interest in forcing culture on you. They are not use to complaining or trying to change society, they just live by the rules of the world as presented to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-77062257605282251942007-11-07T10:38:00.000-08:002007-11-07T10:38:00.000-08:00“Never accept a convert or a child born of a conve...<I>“Never accept a convert or a child born of a convert,” Kassin told me by phone, summarizing the message. “Push them away with strong hands from our community. Why? Because we don’t want gentile characteristics.”</I><BR/><BR/>Another thought: Does the Syrian Jewish community and its synagogues qualify for tax exempt status as a religious group? Does it have to file publicly accessible IRS reports, like non-religious charities, or is it exempt like a religious group?<BR/><BR/>Because it seems to me that our basic understanding of a religion in this country is a particular set of <I>beliefs</I>, not a particular set of genes. And it has occurred to me that there are, in fact, Christian examples of the SY community. Bob Jones University refused to admit unmarried black students until 1975, and even after continued to ban interracial dating until 2000. In 1970 the IRS ruled that schools with racially discriminatory policies were not eligible for tax exempt status. The Supreme Court backed that decision in BJU vs United States (1983).<BR/><BR/>And there <I>was</I> controversy. BJU has been vilified all over the press, as have presidential candidates who have spoken there.<BR/><BR/>The Mormon Church and its Brigham Young University also suffered vilification in the press and challenges to their tax exempt status when blacks were barred not from baptism but just from the priesthood, which policy they changed in 1978. 29 years later they still catch hell for it. Indeed, I'm sure the press will pay lots and lots of attention to that change in its 30th anniversary year if a certain Mormon presidential candidate happens to win the GOP nomination.<BR/><BR/>So to answer my original question, YES, Christian sects with racially exclusive policies DO get vilified in the press for racist policies, and even get denied tax exempt status. So the double standard here is actual, not theoretical.<BR/><BR/>But as I've said above, I'm all for allowing the Syrian Jews to do as they will. Bully for them. But not if other groups can't do so as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71847291116412282542007-11-07T07:54:00.000-08:002007-11-07T07:54:00.000-08:00Under edict put forward in 1935 and most recently ...<I>Under edict put forward in 1935 and most recently reaffirmed by community leaders in 2006… producing proof, going back at least three generations and attested to by an Orthodox rabbi, of the candidates’ kosher bona fides. This disqualifies the vast majority of American Jews, who have no such proof. “We won’t take them — not even if we go back three or four generations — if someone in their line was married by a Reform or Conservative rabbi, because they don’t perform marriages according to Orthodox law,” Kassin said. Even Orthodox candidates are screened, to make sure there are no gentiles or converts lurking in the family tree. ...<BR/><BR/>(mnuez) And personally, I'm pleased as hell that they did it and WISH that all other Jews had done it as well.</I><BR/><BR/>These edicts from the Syrian Jewish community are the same in purpose in defining who is “chosen” by racial purity yet much more restrictive than the Nazi’s <A HTTP://EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG/WIKI/NUREMBERG_LAWS” HREF="”" REL="nofollow">Nuremberg Laws</A> (also first passed in 1935). The Nazi’s only went back 2 generations. In addition, someone was considered Jewish only if 3 or 4 of their 4 grandparents were Jewish. Germans with 1,2 or 3 Jewish grandparents were 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree Mischlings or half-breeds with officially restricted rights which were often bent depending on family connections or state needs.<BR/><BR/>Something tells me you wouldn’t be “pleased as hell” if whites reaffirmed a non-violent form of the Nuremberg Laws today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51750852254629218142007-11-07T07:48:00.000-08:002007-11-07T07:48:00.000-08:00The "Edict" is clearly and unequivocally against J...The "Edict" is clearly and unequivocally against Jewish law. <BR/><BR/>The Torah commands us specifically to love the convert.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7711707259124625722007-11-07T06:59:00.000-08:002007-11-07T06:59:00.000-08:00...any outsider who wants to marry into a Syrian f...<I>...any outsider who wants to marry into a Syrian family — even a fellow Jew — is subject to thorough genealogical investigation.</I><BR/><BR/>I suspect that non-Jews who want to marry into a Syrian-Jewish family aren't subject to any kind of genealogical investigation - they're just given the boot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82607829871862344312007-11-06T23:46:00.000-08:002007-11-06T23:46:00.000-08:00because after all he'll only marry a girl "if she ...<I>because after all he'll only marry a girl "if she converts" and you'll be under a lot of pressure to start calling the ignoramus johnny-come-lately who was "converted" through some holy water and a bagel a Jew!</I><BR/><BR/>Nice try, mnuez, and well-spoken, but remember these folks aren't just rejecting converts - they're actually going back 3 generations to check for "purity." Which, all-in-all, reminds of the purity tests conducted by a certain Austrian-cum-German.<BR/><BR/><I>And personally, I'm pleased as hell that they did it and WISH that all other Jews had done it as well.</I><BR/><BR/>I wish we had required such racial purity tests for entry to our country, too.<BR/><BR/>Not really, but what's good for the goose...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34284392831532917742007-11-06T22:52:00.000-08:002007-11-06T22:52:00.000-08:00Oops. I think that there's something I should fess...<I>Oops. I think that there's something I should fess up to: I've long been pleased with the Syrian Jewish Community of Brooklyn's strong stance against accepting (even) converts. Their reasons (for the record, and best I'm aware of them) aren't out of any aesthetic distastes for people not born to Jewish parents but rather in order to ensure that their children don't stray from the Jewish faith and start dating non-Jews under the common rationalization that "she can always convert". When you know that converting your potential spouse is not an option you won't even consider dating a non-Jew.</I><BR/><BR/>That explains this part:<BR/><BR/><I>Kassin said. Even Orthodox candidates are screened, to make sure there are no gentiles or converts lurking in the family tree. ...</I><BR/><BR/>You never know what hideous goyish cultural influences might find a vector among those who converted to Orthodox Judaism three or four generations back. We can't risk that. No, siree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40154756523536033192007-11-06T22:25:00.000-08:002007-11-06T22:25:00.000-08:00Sy: Where does it say that they hate non-Jews? The...<B>Sy:</B> <I>Where does it say that they hate non-Jews? The point of the edict is to prevent their community from assimilating and disappearing like most non-Syrian Jews. They don't necessarily hate non-Jews anymore than the Amish hate the non-Amish; they just don't want to be like non-Jews (or like Americanized non-Syrian Jews).</I><BR/><BR/>Uhh, isn't that what just got Dog the Bounty Hunter <A HREF="http://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=Dog%20the%20Bounty%20Hunter%20transcript" REL="nofollow">fired from his job</A>?<BR/><BR/>Trying to dissuade his son from assimilating with a different community?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44604766105200142582007-11-06T22:17:00.000-08:002007-11-06T22:17:00.000-08:00Oops. I think that there's something I should fess...Oops. I think that there's something I should fess up to: I've long been pleased with the Syrian Jewish Community of Brooklyn's strong stance against accepting (even) converts. Their reasons (for the record, and best I'm aware of them) aren't out of any aesthetic distastes for people not born to Jewish parents but rather in order to ensure that their children don't stray from the Jewish faith and start dating non-Jews under the common rationalization that "she can always convert". When you know that converting your potential spouse is not an option you won't even consider <I>dating</I> a non-Jew. <BR/><BR/>And why <I>not</I> date a non-Jew (from the perspective of a believing Jew) who can then convert before she marries someone from your community? Well, for one, she may not choose to convert and your slimy kid has already "fallen in love" with her. Well, you know those kids, everything is love, Love, LOVE! He'll just leave Judaism entirely and marry her even though she's still a shiksa (a term the Syrian Jewish community would not know, by the way).<BR/><BR/>And besides, do you know the state of conversions nowadays? It's a shanda! Teach this sheigetz to spell (or even <I>pronounce</I>) Chanuka correctly and this "Rabbi" (who doesn't know an Aleph from a swastika) will slap a yarmulka on him (for the duration of the wedding service) and call him a Yid!<BR/><BR/>It's nonsense. And it does not a Jew make. But raise your kid with the knowledge that he can date goyim and still be in good standing in the community because after all he'll only marry a girl "if she converts" and you'll be under a lot of pressure to start calling the ignoramus johnny-come-lately who was "converted" through some holy water and a bagel a Jew! And, as mentioned, and as all of the members of the Syrian Community of 1935 knew, he/she is NOT a Jew.<BR/><BR/>So, to summarize: Traditionally, Jews have considered converts into the Jewish community to be the creme de la creme of the community. Jethro was a convert, Ruth was a convert, Onkelos was a convert, the Prophet Obadiah (with his own chapter-volume in the Bible) is said to have been a convert, etc. I can tell you from PERSONAL experience that I've always considered true geirim (converts) to have been people worthy of the highest adulation. Almost worship in fact. <BR/><BR/>And OBVIOUSLY entirely regardless of what ethnicity or religion they originated from. There is no hatred of other races going on here with the Syrian Community's edict. <BR/><BR/>What is going on is that only <I>geirei tzedek</I> ("righteous converts") are worthy of this worship. "Converting" in order to marry your "beloved" doesn't count. In fact it doesn't even work. According to traditional Jewish sources you can dunk yourself in the mikva a thousand times and circumcise your entire netheregions to non-existence but if you converted for marriage you are simply NOT A JEW.<BR/><BR/>But your kid might not see it that way (traditional sources be damned) so in order not to get into an Orthodox-Conservative-Reform-Reconstructionist-Humanist debate you simply post up on the wall: "We will not accept your converted spouse as a Jew." <BR/><BR/>Lotta time saved.<BR/><BR/>And personally, I'm pleased as hell that they did it and WISH that all other Jews had done it as well. Alas, they haven't - which is why in a very short while Reform synagogues will be filled (for the Yom Kippur brunch only) with a majority of Halachically non-Jews and any of them who wish to marry an Orthodox Jew (of any stripe) will have to prove their bona fides in exactly the way that they now must when desiring a marriage with a member of the Syrian Jewish Community. It isn't a matter of "race" and never was (we worship TRUE converts, remember?), but in order to convert you've got to be the Real McCoy. And HE comes along rather seldom.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/><BR/>mnuez<BR/><A HREF="http://www.mnuez.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">www.mnuez.blogspot.com</A><BR/><BR/><BR/>I'll save myself the bother of my next comment by posting it now: <BR/><BR/><I>If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken<BR/>Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools...</I>mnuezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10328856077944673860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55880544209705164702007-11-06T21:45:00.000-08:002007-11-06T21:45:00.000-08:00The Muslim Middle East contains a lot more remnant...<I>The Muslim Middle East contains a lot more remnant and/or old heretical religious groups than does Europe</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe Europe was left void of other religions because Islam was harsher and less desirable than Christianity. Christianity was soft around the edges where Islam was not.<BR/><BR/>As a side note, The Derb had a post the other day <A HREF="http://www.beliefnet.com/story/224/story_22439_1.html" REL="nofollow">linking to an article</A> on the Eastern Orthodox Church which claims (no data is presented) to have a better hold on men than other Christian denominations these days. No further comment, but worth reading.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16524904037610259632007-11-06T21:40:00.000-08:002007-11-06T21:40:00.000-08:00Another thing is that even as recently as a couple...<I>Another thing is that even as recently as a couple of centuries ago Europe was perhaps not entirely Christian. In some rural areas, pockets of paganism survived, often in syncretistic forms.</I><BR/><BR/>Uh, no. "Syncretistic forms" don't count and aren't very impressive considering how practically EVERY Christian community in the world has synchronized elements of pre-Christian religions into their faiths. Heck, if we want to go far back enough we've even got "pockets of" <I>Canaanite</I> religious groups still around today... synchronized into all the worlds Jews, Christians and Muslims!<BR/><BR/>The simple fact is that nestled within centers of the Islamic world today you still have pockets of non-Islamic communities while no such thing (with the always present Jewish Exception - yay Jews!) survived the onslaught of Christian Love.<BR/><BR/>Wanna say that every last one of those communities vanished among the Christians while some (though clearly few) survived among Muslims owing to reasons other than tolerance/a lack thereof? That's fair, and at the end of the day I doubt that the human community has enough accurate information to be able to sort it all out with any definitive explanation - but, we'd be comparing apples and apples in our attempts. Comparing the survival of the Mandaeans among Muslims to something like... I dunno, Halloween? among Christians is hardly the same business.<BR/><BR/>mnuez<BR/><A HREF="http://www.mnuez.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">www.mnuez.blogspot.com</A>mnuezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10328856077944673860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72064856988059477842007-11-06T21:05:00.000-08:002007-11-06T21:05:00.000-08:00For the record, the Amish do accept converts but v...For the record, the Amish do accept converts but very few people in contemporary society can comfortably adapt to a lifestyle largely free of electricity and other modern conveniences. Converts would also have to learn to speak the dialect of German used by strict Mennonites. My father actually knew someone who joined the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite" REL="nofollow">Hutterites</A> (who are somewhat similar to the Mennonites) later in life. The Amish also allow their children to choose whether or not they will remain with the sect when they come of age. <BR/><BR/>To compare the Amish to the Syrian Jewish community is misleading. The barriers to joining the Amish community would have seemed less severe a century or two ago and were never intended as a way to keep outsiders from joining or insiders from leaving; the Syrian Jewish edict preventing intermarriage between even converts is intended to do precisely that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25647998261841176112007-11-06T20:26:00.000-08:002007-11-06T20:26:00.000-08:00Cochran's idea that clannishness is the wave of th...Cochran's idea that clannishness is the wave of the futures makes a lot of sense. Ideals of fairness seem to be almost designed for self-destruction. They involve regarding the interests of others to be as important as your own, which is total self-pwnage from a Darwinian point of view. <BR/><BR/>I would draw a biological analogy - a cohesive, non-tribal nation with rule of law and fairness would beat small tribes as easily as a person would destroy bacteria cultures, but if pathogenic bacteria get inside that person, and he lacks an immune system, he's screwed. Of course, the person is Western-style society, the bacteria are tribal societies, and instead of an immune system that works we have a weird autoimmune disease called liberalism which destroys anything that tries to save the organism.<BR/><BR/>c23Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73459010121468570672007-11-06T20:17:00.000-08:002007-11-06T20:17:00.000-08:00How so? Perhaps you could explicate. If you can't ...<I>How so? Perhaps you could explicate. If you can't do so without giving away plot points then never mind, since others here might want to read it.</I><BR/><BR/>It's not a spoiler to say that the protagonist is the spawn of two white trash low-IQ losers of the 22nd century, who nevertheless rises to become a Nietzschean Uberfrau herself due to her accidental possession of a technological interface that is designed to Nuture her to greatness despite her lack of any gifts from Nature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50931842418743772582007-11-06T19:55:00.000-08:002007-11-06T19:55:00.000-08:00Christianity is not inherently more or less tolera...Christianity is not inherently more or less tolerant than Islam. It's just more malleable.<BR/><BR/>The Bible does not specify how tolerant Christians should be towards other religions. It gives the general idea that other religions are false and that their adherents should be converted, but it doesn't specify exactly how. So you can do it by torturing heretics to death, if you're Torquemada, or by working some Jesus stuff into your mostly-secular pop music, if you're Scott Stapp.<BR/><BR/>Islam, on the other hand, has rules about how to treat infidels. The don't prescribe anything as nasty as the Spanish Inquisition or the Albigensian Crusade (not to people of the book, anyway), but they're bad enough that no sane person would want to live under them.<BR/><BR/>In general, this is why Christianity is better than Islam from my secular point of view. Islam is overspecified, and paints its adherents into a 7th century corner, whereas Christianity is so vague that it's almost whatever you want it to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62961527741725437202007-11-06T19:43:00.000-08:002007-11-06T19:43:00.000-08:00I'd suggest that one reason for the survival of va...I'd suggest that one reason for the survival of various pagan/heretical sects in the Muslim world is that Muslim leaders have been <I>less pious</I> than Christian ones. Islam has not traditionally had anything like the Christian system of popes and bishops, i.e. people whose job it is to enforce orthodoxy.<BR/><BR/>Muslim caliphs and sultans, regardless of their status as "commanders of the faithful", were not necessarily particularly religious, and were often driven by purely secular ambitions, the most prominent of which was the filling of the coffers of the state. (Not that this wasn't true of e.g. some popes, too.)<BR/><BR/>The fact that Islamic law decreed higher taxes for non-Muslims meant that rulers had a great incentive to have non-Muslim subjects. There are many stories of Muslim leaders actively discouraging their infidel subjects from converting to Islam, because it would have reduced tax revenues. Strictly interpreted, Islamic law mandates the destruction of faiths other than Islam, Christianity, and Judaism (the latter two must only be subjugated), but in reality the interpretations have been lax, and blatantly polytheistic religions like Hinduism have been tolerated.<BR/><BR/>Another reason for the survival of non-Muslim communities might be that governments in the Muslim world were usually rather poorly organized and inefficient, meaning that distant regions were relatively autonomous. <BR/><BR/>Another thing is that even as recently as a couple of centuries ago Europe was perhaps not entirely Christian. In some rural areas, pockets of paganism survived, often in syncretistic forms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com