tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post7231142676081994711..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Junior high school v. middle school?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35857783313445190692013-01-24T19:37:51.024-08:002013-01-24T19:37:51.024-08:00Well,I guess the professor doesn't like that a...Well,I guess the professor doesn't like that asians or whites in Irvine do a lot better than hispanics in Santa Ana or Anahiem. Actually, Anahiem has a real good program Oxford Academy which is over 60 percent Asian but at least 15 percent is Hispanic and only 10 percent white. Oh, well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1195731418331494412013-01-24T15:53:58.195-08:002013-01-24T15:53:58.195-08:00In 1973, when I started 5th grade, my MA public sc...In 1973, when I started 5th grade, my MA public school system began to place students in cohorts, of levels 1 to 5. Each cohort took all classes together. A student's placement was based on some kind of series of tests. Level 5 being the brightest students. Most students remained in the same cohort and level throughout middle school, grades 5 - 7. <br /><br />Big IQ difference between Levels 1 and 5, and even 3 and 5. Only at recess and lunch did a student see students from other cohorts. At that point, Levels 4 & 5 pretty much completely diverged in school and life from the lower levels.E. Rekshunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69368615306713286672013-01-24T15:48:43.393-08:002013-01-24T15:48:43.393-08:00Middle school is the ultimate nightmare for Calif ...Middle school is the ultimate nightmare for Calif public schools. Elem. schools are still mostly neighborhood based and High Schools sort students into classes by academic achievement. But that is not done at middle schools except for math. So no one learns anything in middle school except math. Which grades go to which school is the least problem. Most families who have options are sending their kids to private or charter schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68633616259439049772013-01-24T15:32:54.958-08:002013-01-24T15:32:54.958-08:00In Massachusetts, there is elementary school (grad...In Massachusetts, there is elementary school (grades 1 - 4), middle school (grades 5 - 8) and high school (grades 9 - 12). There is a huge difference between the physical and emotional maturity between 9th graders and 12th graders. Zero 9th graders had experienced sex. Fifty % of 12th graders had experienced sex. This was late 70s early 80s in a middle class, 98% White Boston suburb.E. Rekshunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-307947900855537432013-01-24T14:48:25.056-08:002013-01-24T14:48:25.056-08:00"You do NOT want 9th graders to be the oldest..."You do NOT want 9th graders to be the oldest students in the building. They are insufferable. They need to be the littlest fish in the pond."<br /><br />That might be true if they're all from the same ethnic group but what if some ethnic groups start going through puberty at 8 and others at 12?<br /><br />You get a lot of sexually mature 12 year olds preying on pre-pubescent 8 year olds - and that is *exactly* what happens while the teachers turn a blind eye.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44923683164428955442013-01-24T11:44:48.442-08:002013-01-24T11:44:48.442-08:00I know of a town where the schools are separated 4...I know of a town where the schools are separated 4 times. I think one ot them was called Intermediate School. Sounded real dumb to me. The town was Weston, CT, very rich.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32571069161694196872013-01-24T11:39:14.437-08:002013-01-24T11:39:14.437-08:00It truely doesn´t matter what its called. But, I´m...It truely doesn´t matter what its called. But, I´m sick of words changing in our society to become supposedly more PC. I don´t remember what are the appropriate Asian countries names anymore. And recently I found out that a Waitor or Waitress is a Server. WTF? How is that better to be called. And who makes these decisions??<br /><br />I´m gonna use the words I want from now on.. EFF ´em.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58619769884484280052013-01-24T11:35:20.365-08:002013-01-24T11:35:20.365-08:00My Junior High was 6th graders to 9th graders. The...My Junior High was 6th graders to 9th graders. The age disparity was too large. It was inappropriate for such young girls aroung 15 year olds, and it was dangerous for the younger kids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66703283325913234892013-01-24T11:18:46.909-08:002013-01-24T11:18:46.909-08:00You may be interested in this Steve.
A re-estima...You may be interested in <a href="http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/" rel="nofollow">this</a> Steve.<br /><br /><br /><i>A re-estimated U.S. average PISA score that adjusted for a student population in the United States that is more disadvantaged than populations in otherwise similar post-industrial countries, and for the over-sampling of students from the most-disadvantaged schools in a recent U.S. international assessment sample, finds that the U.S. average score in both reading and mathematics would be higher than official reports indicate (in the case of mathematics, substantially higher).</i> <br /><br /><br />Of course they don't explain why they think we should just pretend that we don't have all those "disadvantaged" people here in the US.Severnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26592230669012071362013-01-24T11:14:35.651-08:002013-01-24T11:14:35.651-08:00The district I attended was shifting from junior h...The district I attended was shifting from junior high to middle school while I was there. One benefit was having more kids in the high school, which made it feasible to offer more AP and honors classes. That alone made it worthwhile, in my view.The Outsiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01702832458836067371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1052986253369187942013-01-24T11:06:40.750-08:002013-01-24T11:06:40.750-08:00Incidentally, at least in California, there were, ...Incidentally, at least in California, there were, and still are, "School Districts" and "High School Districts", and they operate independently. (If your school district is named "Unified School District", it's because they combined the two, probably in the 50s.) As fas as I know, all High School Districts are 9-12, and School Districts which don't have high schools are K-8.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389602137217799305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-2511599872520793062013-01-24T11:02:50.605-08:002013-01-24T11:02:50.605-08:00"More and more NAMs in our schools means more..."More and more NAMs in our schools means more and more young white pre-pubescent children intermingling with fully mature NAM thugs."<br /><br />Our local park is used for PE by both an exclusive private middle school and a heavily minority public middle school. The public school kids look high school age -- the boys are sprouting mustaches and run the gamut of adult body types from well muscled (some) to paunchy (most). The girls all look child bearing capable. The kids cluster into groups of three to six and there is little semblance of class order. There is a lot of shouting, pushing, and unintelligible joking. The PE teachers are mostly passive observers.<br /><br />In contrast, the private school kids are lithe, smaller in stature, and many look like they might still be in elementary school. They show deference to adults and engage in very organized sports activities. They play hard, but are generally quiet and attentive, and tend to listen for instructions from the teacher.<br /><br />Just noticing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35650562779825821802013-01-24T11:01:45.751-08:002013-01-24T11:01:45.751-08:00Junior High and High School is great for early mat...<i>Junior High and High School is great for early maturing girls, and boys. And for the most part, society all across the West has adopted those values.</i><br /><br />This, and the rest of what Whiskey has to say is correct.<br /><br />My JHS experience ('50-'53) was bad for a number of reasons, agglomeration of vastly different neighborhood feeder populations being one. Diversity was a curse, mainly creating hierarchies based on physical maturity.<br /><br />On the other hand, we were also "tracked" academically and thus in cognitively segregated homerooms that openly competed with each other.<br /><br />But this did not bridge the dominant physical maturation/social acceptance gap, which one was constantly reinforced: a 7th grader's first experience in a locker room full of nude boys led inevitably to an unwelcome lesson in comparative anatomy, sometimes used to taunt the maturation laggards.Jeeveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00127956739874100978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18396961515741236722013-01-24T10:54:50.670-08:002013-01-24T10:54:50.670-08:00Steve, you have to see this: at Volokh, they'r...Steve, you have to see this: at Volokh, they're discussing a proposal by UC Irvine Law dean Chemerinsky to force every kid to attend public school (outlaw both private and home-school). The entire discussion takes place without once mentioning blacks.<br /><br />http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/23/equality-vs-liberty/ helene edwardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55634755141414976912013-01-24T10:51:19.957-08:002013-01-24T10:51:19.957-08:00I was born in 1957 and most schools in la were gra...I was born in 1957 and most schools in la were grades 6th to 8th. Steve you most have lived in an area that had the older grading system. In Orange County with a few exceptions in the late 1960's the middle school or Jr high was all 6th to 8th.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38297913383369505192013-01-24T10:29:08.370-08:002013-01-24T10:29:08.370-08:00As an Army Brat, I had the highly questionable &qu...As an Army Brat, I had the highly questionable "privilege" of rotating through multiple school systems both in CONUS and the DoD run schools in Europe.<br /><br />At the age of 12 we were located in Fairfax Va. and I attended a Junior High school that was 7th and 8th grades only.<br /><br />Half way through that school year I found myself plunked down in Baumholder Germany and in a school that was for grades 7 through 12 (which was actually surprisingly civilized, the seniors sort of "kept a lid" on the highly rambunctious victims of puberty). At the end of 8th grade I was under the impression that at long last I would be entering the hallowed environs of a real High School, but the US Army apparently discerned my wishes and we were off to Frankfurt Germany and I found myself In Frankfurt American Junior High, which was for grades 7, 8 and 9.<br /><br />So were rotated back to the States in the summer of 1970 and now I am thinking I cannot be denied. Wrong again. We were stationed at the US Army War College in Carlisle Pa., and Carlisle has (I am NOT making this up) an Intermediate High School which was made up of grades 9 and 10.<br /><br />So by virtue of relocation, I did not attend a real High School until the 11th grade. I suspect my story is nigh unto unbelievable to any reader who is not a service brat, and all too believable to them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45868030274589530442013-01-24T10:26:15.384-08:002013-01-24T10:26:15.384-08:00A lot of the adjustments to the actual grade borde...A lot of the adjustments to the actual grade borders of middle school are based on school populations - if there are too many kids at the elementary school, one solution is to make the middle school a 6-8 instead of 7-8. I was born in 1966, and most schools I was aware of were divided K-6, 7-8, 9-12, though many had recently changed from K-6, 7-9, 10-12. Configuring schools K-5, 6-8, 9-12 happened later. Where I live now, there's talk of consolidating a middle school with a high school because there aren't enough kids to keep both schools running near capacity, while the local Catholic schools are K-8 and 9-12.<br /><br />Berkeley divided its schools K-3, 4-6, 7-9, and 10-12, with the K-3 schools in the flatlands and 4-6 schools in the hills, sharing common attendance areas, so that everyone got bussed for 3 years. They seem to have stopped that and now have K-5, 6-8, 9-12.<br /><br />By the way, my middle school was an "intermediate" school, which was common in Northern California at the time. They're now calling it a "middle" school.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389602137217799305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46579040978486815822013-01-24T10:19:27.121-08:002013-01-24T10:19:27.121-08:00I went to a sort-of-fancy secnod tier private scho...I went to a sort-of-fancy secnod tier private school in New York City in the 1980s. Grades 5-8 was called "Middle School". I had no idea there was anything called "Junior High" until well after I graduated college, though as an adult I had older freinds who referred to those grades as "Grammer School".<br /><br />"Junior High" sounds at least a bit like a prole concept.<br /><br />Even at my school, I remember the social atmosphere as being immature and oversexualized. Actual high school was something of an improvement in that regard. There is a strong argument for all-girls and all-boys schools for the years falling right after puberty.Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82252612401300019912013-01-24T10:02:43.994-08:002013-01-24T10:02:43.994-08:00My junior high outside Chicago is still a junior h...My junior high outside Chicago is still a junior high. One of the few that still is. They added 6th graders to it. Back when I went there it was just 7th and 8th. 9th was high school.Dahindanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8423281245617047702013-01-24T09:49:42.713-08:002013-01-24T09:49:42.713-08:00Lemme clue y'all in to the one big advancement...Lemme clue y'all in to the one big advancement in NorCal education between elementary and junior high. You know that big room where you eat lunch and have assemblies and plays and such? Well, K-6 it was called the "multi-use" room. Then in junior high, they started calling it the "multi-purpose" room. And they insisted on that difference. Must have occasioned a lot of yakking at a lot of meetings. not a hackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45266658259748517152013-01-24T09:47:32.257-08:002013-01-24T09:47:32.257-08:00Our local MS in California just reverted back to a...Our local MS in California just reverted back to a 7-8 system from a 6-8 with the elementary schools going back to K-6. The situation with the 6-8 was so dismal for my oldest son that it convinced us to send out daughters to a private elementary/MS just to avoid it. Mind you, this is not one of the worst MS - those have resident policemen with reinforcements at lunchtime to prevent rioting by the usual suspects.Dutch Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687679491743923216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18795581750050388382013-01-24T09:43:30.196-08:002013-01-24T09:43:30.196-08:00I've often wondered what the difference is mys...I've often wondered what the difference is myself. In the district I am in, 7th & 8th grades were Junior High School when I was growing up (almost 30 years ago). Since then they have moved the building and changed the name to Middle School but it's still the same grades.CSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16033461499074590752013-01-24T09:42:05.385-08:002013-01-24T09:42:05.385-08:00Every school district seems to do something a litt...Every school district seems to do something a little different. Often times the definition of what is a middle school will shift, due to either school construction or school closures. That is, it can be a somewhat arbitrary partitioning, where eighth graders are repatriated to elementary schools or promoted to high schools. I attended a public school where junior high and high school were in the same building but on different floors. A recent increase in the local Hispanic population forced the district to reopen a mothballed building and move the junior high out of the high school and into new facilities.<br /><br />I can see how some districts might define middle school as a place where puberty begins and ends for most of the kids in a kind of rolling second order phase transition. Specialized counseling can be made available to kids coping with physical change, and bullying is carefully policed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60853503781574059192013-01-24T09:19:57.302-08:002013-01-24T09:19:57.302-08:00"She held that isolating middle grades was te..."She held that isolating middle grades was terrible. I'm not sure I remember correctly, but I don't think she saw so much difference between 1-8 and 7-12, but thought that 6-8 was unadulterated evil."<br /><br />I think that middle school is bad because the older students feel no responsibility for the younger, and need not set a good example; and the younger need not look up to the older, do not look to them for guides to behavior.<br /><br />In schools with a wider range of grades this behavior comes naturally, and everyone is more likely to behave. <br />Robert HumeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23264707344297166362013-01-24T08:24:15.656-08:002013-01-24T08:24:15.656-08:00Although I think the switch was mostly change for ...Although I think the switch was mostly change for change' sake, it might have been partly to smooth "elementary school" (now K-5) test scores, since "the gap" grows with age in a non-linear fashion.<br /><br />I miss the "Richard Henry Dana Junior Junior High School" in Arcadia, CA, though. Now it is merely the "Richard Henry Dana Junior Middle School" and that name is definitely less memorable. Also when the Arcadia School District changed the name they sent a real vandal to wreck the elegant signage on the main building, leaving ugly scars on its face.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com