tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post7690820573383053447..comments2024-03-29T05:14:33.223-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: "A New Book Argues Against the SAT"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69369915181771676482011-11-11T11:12:41.700-08:002011-11-11T11:12:41.700-08:00(Goulash...in the pot, nine days old.)
according ...(Goulash...in the pot, nine days old.)<br /><br />according to a phd in nursery rhymes, that was pease porridge in the pot 9 days old. Goulash that old would be toxic. Saw it on my SAT subject test.Charlottenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57182741300154140892011-11-11T00:17:31.651-08:002011-11-11T00:17:31.651-08:00Well, do go by one some time, they're all pret...Well, do go by one some time, they're all pretty absurd.Penn State rioternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55321924567229939732011-11-10T20:06:23.620-08:002011-11-10T20:06:23.620-08:00The "I hope universities crumble because I ha...The "I hope universities crumble because I hate hate hate liberals" mentality perplexes me to no end. Perhaps if I went a university, I would understand it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30877768978901577312011-11-10T17:07:55.695-08:002011-11-10T17:07:55.695-08:00>"Yes, Dragan, that's nice, but what a...>"Yes, Dragan, that's nice, but what are you going to do for my next year?"<<br /><br />Isn't it your job to determine that?<br /><br />Not only does an applicant have to possess the knowledge and aptitude to work well in the field. According to you, he also has to make your business plan for you. <br /><br />Are you merely in HR or something? Or is this another baleful instance of parasitical management at its most arrogant?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78628814510307994442011-11-10T15:17:01.721-08:002011-11-10T15:17:01.721-08:00The capacity of some social "scientists"...The capacity of some social "scientists" for self-delusion and dissimulation never ceases to astonish me.C. Blackwellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29017403664371073012011-11-10T12:52:38.548-08:002011-11-10T12:52:38.548-08:00I want to hate this Soares person, and indeed I ma...I want to hate this Soares person, and indeed I may yet do so, but I notice that amid the usual lefty nonsense he does make <a href="http://www.wfu.edu/sociology/soares/jsoares.html" rel="nofollow">a good, iSteve-friendly point:</a><br /><br /><i>"Just as race-sensitive admissions at very selective colleges helped to bring diversity into America's political elites ... , a first-generation-sensitive admission policy may accomplish something similar for Americans from modest to low social class backgrounds."</i> <br /><br />If Soares is not dissembling here -- if this policy <i>really is</i> about class and not merely race -- then this is precisely the sort of scheme Steve has long advocated: that the low-hanging fruit for higher education is to be found among poor Whites.<br /><br />Possible proof of his bona fides: he's an Air Force brat, and a first-generation college graduate himself. <br /><br />There just <i>might</i> be something here that we can work with...<br /><br />GopherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38720185184019116472011-11-10T12:42:55.104-08:002011-11-10T12:42:55.104-08:00Back in 1984, a Canadian grad student asked me why...<i>Back in 1984, a Canadian grad student asked me why Americans placed so much weight on the SAT and ACT. I asked him what they looked at when you applied to college-- excuse me, to university-- in his country. He said, "Your marks."</i> <br /><br /><br /><br />If Canadian high schools/secondary schools work like the British ones, then your "marks" are not awarded by your high school teachers. All exam papers are sent away to be blind graded. So you don't have the situation which you find in America where an "A" in math in a certain high school is the same as an "F" in math in some other high school. An A is an A is an A.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-27525015028482666762011-11-10T12:24:41.412-08:002011-11-10T12:24:41.412-08:00I told him that wouldn't work in our country b...<i>I told him that wouldn't work in our country because of too much diversity among schools. Not within schools, among them. And that didn't refer to racial diversity.</i> <br /><br /><br /><i>By ninth grade I'd attended ten schools in seven communities in five states in four (or five or six) sections of the U.S. Seven of those schools were lily-white, and the others were thoroughly assimilated Asian-American, or effectively the same as lily-white. </i> <br /><br /><br />I found that exactly the same thing occurred in college. (In the US) The standards were whatever the professor teaching each class wanted them to be. It also depended on the ability of the collection of students you happened to be taking the class with. This was in math and science, mind you, not art history and English lit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88723611948654723522011-11-10T11:11:03.292-08:002011-11-10T11:11:03.292-08:00I recall teachers saying that they didn't like...<i>I recall teachers saying that they didn't like having to teach to them, and the headmaster calling them "cruel and unusual punishment.</i><br /><br />Yeah, no kidding. Actually teaching content is real work. As for the headmaster, let me translate, the headmaster didn't have high marks on his exams.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23587221014477392422011-11-10T09:49:28.948-08:002011-11-10T09:49:28.948-08:00Life discriminates in favor of clever and strong p...Life discriminates in favor of clever and strong people. Life is unfair!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39281199533479348852011-11-10T07:08:54.801-08:002011-11-10T07:08:54.801-08:00He characterizes it as a test that tends to favor ...<i>He characterizes it as a test that tends to favor white, male, upper income students with the means to prepare for it.</i><br /><br />I am a white male with parents who had graduate degrees. I did well on the SAT without preparing for it, other than taking the PSAT. It might be said that I did prepare for the SAT by doing a lot of reading not required in school and by doing my math homework. I suppose that reading on my own was an unfair advantage over people who didn't crack a book outside of school. I apologize to the good professor for having done so much reading on my own, which unfairly cranked up my SAT score.Gringonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50286218702332241392011-11-10T05:42:55.203-08:002011-11-10T05:42:55.203-08:00In reality, universities like upper income white m...<i>In reality, universities like upper income white males (particularly Jews) because they often embody the well-rounded, independent-thinker scholar/athlete ethic that universities like.</i><br /><br />America, what have you done to the Jews?!IHTGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13543091238926738309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47461604452315775012011-11-10T02:45:42.216-08:002011-11-10T02:45:42.216-08:00Thirty years ago Canadian schools must have been h...<i>Thirty years ago Canadian schools must have been homogeneous in more ways than merely the ethnic, if they were only looking at "your marks".</i><br /><br />Not really. The same disparities in grading you see in the US were also to be seen in Canada, or at least Ontario. My high school (private, and genuinely harder than your average public school) actually formulated "recommendation marks," i.e. inflated grades, that they submitted to the central university admissions office in Guelph, to "level the playing field" for their students. <br /><br />I always wondered why there wasn't some standardized test to act as a control on this sort of thing, but the centralized "grade thirteen finals" that my parents took in the '50s had been abolished by the time I was in HS because... well, I never really understood why, but I recall teachers saying that they didn't like having to teach to them, and the headmaster calling them "cruel and unusual punishment." <br /><br />I suppose any attempt at implementing a standardized test now would be condemned for being "American," and nothing will shut down debate in Canada faster than that epithet.Gilbert Ratchethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13448063418910836848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42260415133693893932011-11-10T01:12:56.130-08:002011-11-10T01:12:56.130-08:00http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/11/09/war-agains...http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/11/09/war-against-boys-continues-apace-in-academia/<br /><br />Robert in ArabiaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51170957803305599562011-11-10T01:05:03.543-08:002011-11-10T01:05:03.543-08:00"That's the usual pattern: do away with a..."That's the usual pattern: do away with affirmative action, schools count grades more than test scores. This helps URMs a little--as much as can be done--and helps Asians a *lot*, because Asians get much better grades than whites."<br /><br />Mitch again with his usual bs. It's kinda hard to get much better grades than anyone in a public high school. <br /><br />Asians aren't all geniuses and hard work will only get you so far especially if you aren't focusing on your true weaknesses.<br /><br />I'm sick of you people insisting that they've earned the majority of the spots in elite universities. I've yet to run across even a handful of asians demonstrating such erudition let alone hordes of them.<br /><br />While I don't at all agree that the SAT is a measure of upper middle class whiteness, I do believe there is an overemphasis on the score as a measure of ability. I've followed your pro-Asian PR on this blog before. You've obviously got a personal interest at stake by creating this distortion. <br /><br />I seriously doubt an emphasis on subject tests or requiring some kind of portfolio of schoolwork would give Asians even more of an advantage. In fact, I'm pretty sure people with relatively higher verbal IQs (including women and hispanics) would make the most gains. The SAT score was never intended to be standalone in college admissions at any level. A slightly lower SAT combined with a excellent high school project or two and or some subject tests has to be a much better indicator of ability and would probably give the advantage to WOMEN of any background.<br /><br />Good luck getting that date with the asian squatty though.sarcasticanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11406228863943305372011-11-10T00:55:09.633-08:002011-11-10T00:55:09.633-08:00Back in 1984, a Canadian grad student asked me why...Back in 1984, a Canadian grad student asked me why Americans placed so much weight on the SAT and ACT. I asked him what they looked at when you applied to college-- excuse me, to <i>university</i>-- in his country. He said, "Your marks."<br /><br />I told him that wouldn't work in our country because of too much diversity among schools. Not <i>within </i> schools, among them. And that didn't refer to racial diversity.<br /><br />By ninth grade I'd attended ten schools in seven communities in five states in four (or five or six) sections of the U.S. Seven of those schools were lily-white, and the others were thoroughly assimilated Asian-American, or effectively the same as lily-white. <br /><br />Yet there were huge differences in standards, practices and average levels of ability. Fifth grade in Appalachia was actually easier than fourth in suburban DC, and finishing fifth in the brainiest college town in the Midwest just gave me the bends, or acrophobia, or whatever.<br /><br />Thirty years ago Canadian schools must have been homogeneous in more ways than merely the ethnic, if they were only looking at "your marks".Reg Cæsarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-76601948945644381812011-11-10T00:52:56.766-08:002011-11-10T00:52:56.766-08:00Who cares? Wake is a TTT anyway.Who cares? Wake is a TTT anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3316464903868205432011-11-10T00:36:29.245-08:002011-11-10T00:36:29.245-08:00In my day they just told us to get a good night...<i>In my day they just told us to get a good night's sleep the night before.</i> --SF<br /><br />I am Goulash.<br /><br />I got about three hours sleep the night before my SAT, and did just fine-- that score got me into Mensa. <br /><br />But I didn't get into my first-choice school, but my second. So, would a full-night's sleep have added 10 or 15 points, and placed me better?<br /><br />And no, I wasn't fretting, and wasn't "studying". I was up listening to records. Yes, vinyl ones. That was back when the test still meant something.<br /><br />I am Goulash... <br /><br />(...in the pot, nine days old.)Reg Cæsarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25146911219970537402011-11-09T23:03:41.136-08:002011-11-09T23:03:41.136-08:00An argument could be made that the SAT skews the p...An argument could be made that the SAT skews the priorities of universities, lets unis think they don't have to impose any rigor on their recruits. Their admission is the only vital datum about 90% of U.S. college grads.<br /><br />But then, having a law school skews them too. I won't even touch the subject of football programsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20440944966826559002011-11-09T21:10:14.139-08:002011-11-09T21:10:14.139-08:00There's some evidence of differential predicti...<i>There's some evidence of differential predictive validity of the SAT in a way that's biased against women.</i> <br /> <br /><br />I think you could rephrase that to "Women in college are graded more gently than their male fellows". <br /><br />Ideally all college work would be blind graded, which would make it impossible for professors to take students color, sex, etc into consideration when awarding grades.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66345155627207722182011-11-09T20:27:53.869-08:002011-11-09T20:27:53.869-08:00A prediction for the future: Colleges will ultimat...A prediction for the future: Colleges will ultimately (in pursuit of marketshare and PC) debase the currency of the bachelor's degree so much that a stint of military service will be a stronger credential. After all, the military has an intellectual cutoff for entrants, too, and while much of the training is not terribly workplace-applicable, you can say the same about university studies.<br />This will also follow a well-known sociological pattern where fields that become female-dominated suffer status devaluation.<br />As a result, some employers will start asking for '*either* bachelor's degree or 4+ years military service'. Learning to interpret a military resume will become a valuable HR skill. Ultimately, maybe some places will stop asking for degrees entirely...bbartloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809977239420353712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9061778350471829902011-11-09T17:55:11.121-08:002011-11-09T17:55:11.121-08:00@Maya: There's some evidence of differential p...@Maya: There's some evidence of differential predictive validity of the SAT in a way that's biased against women. It's not very big in the scheme of things. But it's at least in the direction that people who want to discredit the SAT would say it is, unlike with race and class where when there are differential prediction issues they actually hurt higher-scoring groups (rich kids, white kids).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43459184682375788072011-11-09T17:19:27.215-08:002011-11-09T17:19:27.215-08:00I've got an idea: why doesn't the Gates Fo...I've got an idea: why doesn't the Gates Foundation peel off a few million and put it towards proving that good SAT scores can be bought through well-funded test prep? Take a group of average kids and buy them ivy-worthy scores. <br /><br />While I'm at, it another one: why not have some statisticians figure out how much income inflates test scores (meaning that the scores overpredict academic success) and adjust accordingly? The schools have all the data they need: the SAT scores, the parents' incomes, and a history of grades.<br /><br />I think the emperor is streaking through the quad.Darwin's Sh*tlistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41360697791103953182011-11-09T16:13:44.869-08:002011-11-09T16:13:44.869-08:00There are enough Asians in American culture now th...There are enough Asians in American culture now that the <a href="http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/jpr_rghrs.html" rel="nofollow">Oriental>White>Black hierarchy</a> is impossible to ignore. <br /><br />Yet noticing that obvious fact would be admitting that Rushton was correct.Big Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-198809027451545482011-11-09T15:43:49.423-08:002011-11-09T15:43:49.423-08:00I don't know why they aren't satisfied wit...<i>I don't know why they aren't satisfied with the trend established by having already eliminating the most 'g' loaded tests, such as the verbal analogy test.</i><br /><br /><br />Okay here is my question. Asians do better on Math SAT than whites and not as well on Reading SAT. Makes sense, more Asians than whites are not native English speakers. However, Asians do better than whites on Writing? Huh, come again. Are the graders really unbiased? When someone writes decent essay but leaves out words like "the" or leaves off the third person 's' at too high a rate for it to be just haste, it kind of screams Asian. Has anyone been a grader for the SAT writing section? How subjective is it and got any insight on Asians doing better at verbal expression than verbal comprehension? That just seems pretty backwards.<br /><br />Anyway, Asians would barely be above whites on SAT were it not for their higher English writing scores.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com