tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post7812391677668338795..comments2024-03-19T02:31:02.140-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Who are the truly insane?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48795530860804902532012-02-22T05:19:25.223-08:002012-02-22T05:19:25.223-08:00Could you clarify what you mean by ""Iri...Could you clarify what you mean by ""Irish""? My contention has to do with people of (specifically) English AND another ancestry, and the systematic downplaying of the former and amplification of the latter. The specific point wuth regard to surnames is that an obviously Irish (etc) one will generally be co-opted to demonstrate Irishness etc, whereas an obviously English one is pretty likely to be ignored as signifying anything much.Londonernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9257317744356121812012-02-21T17:57:57.904-08:002012-02-21T17:57:57.904-08:00A search for "Harrison" makes the origin...<i>A search for "Harrison" makes the origins and dissemination of the name pretty clear.</i> <br /><br /><br />I don't dispute the origin of the name. I'm just pointing out that you said this:<br /><br /><i>In the wikipedia age, an informal one-drop rule appiies to the English and the Anglo population of the Anglosphere: any trace, however small, of Irish/Scottish/Welsh (and indeed any other non-English) ancestry is pushed front and centre and the person becomes "of (implicitly 100%) x ancestry".</i> <br /><br /><br />You said that by way of arguing that certain "Irish" people born in Britain should not be considered Irish, but British. Even if their last name is "O'Sullivan". So you can hardly turn around now and appeal to the ancient roots of the Harrison surname.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39726327094915337682012-02-21T14:01:15.471-08:002012-02-21T14:01:15.471-08:00Recent anonymous: I know the Harrison wikipedia ar...Recent anonymous: I know the Harrison wikipedia article has been amended - I was referring to an earlier version of it. Interesting to read about G. Harrison the Irish Republican - of course in the old days the movement was not synonymous with the ethnically Irish/Catholic - many of its prime movers were Anglo-Irish Protestants of sometimes very recent British descent (that hasn't been the case for a while now, although Sean MacStiofain (actually John Stephenson) was a fairly big player in the IRA in the 1970s. Good website for surname mapping here: http://worldnames.publicprofiler.org/Default.aspx?region=!WORLD-EUROPE. A search for "Harrison" makes the origins and dissemination of the name pretty clear.<br /><br />And yes my Peter King comment was trite and a bit cheap, so I withdraw it.Londonernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29659717164599206292012-02-21T07:41:10.602-08:002012-02-21T07:41:10.602-08:00Not altogether sure why, but IMO the English have ...<i>Not altogether sure why, but IMO the English have more in common with the I than with the S or the W. Peter King types will doubtless disagree furiously from their country on the other side of the world!</i> <br /><br /><br />I don't disagree, but have to observe that you seem to be pretty free with your imaginings of what you think Peter King believes from your vantage point in your country on the other side of the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73240033633591189992012-02-21T07:33:29.803-08:002012-02-21T07:33:29.803-08:00As chance would have it, my sister (Irish) works i...As chance would have it, my sister (Irish) works in Britain. As a psychiatrist. <br /><br />Her husband, also Irish, is an ob/gynie. <br /><br />Apparently the bulk of doctors in Britain come from other countries in Europe. Or perhaps just the bulk of the doctors in the NHS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62472035788682238922012-02-21T07:15:57.797-08:002012-02-21T07:15:57.797-08:00For the purposes of the propagandists, as soon as ...<i>For the purposes of the propagandists, as soon as one ancestor who can by any standard be described as "Irish" is found, the guillotine slams down on the need for any further research. In the wikipedia age, an informal one-drop rule appiies to the English and the Anglo population of the Anglosphere: any trace, however small, of Irish/Scottish/Welsh (and indeed any other non-English) ancestry is pushed front and centre and the person becomes "of (implicitly 100%) x ancestry".</i> <br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />I suppose that can be looked at from either side. Plenty of propagandists exist who are intent to claim any accomplished person of mixed Irish/English ancestry as English. Several months ago there were people here arguing vehemently that U2 are an English band rather than an Irish one.<br /><br /><br /><i>George Harrison is a good example: a man from the north of England with an archetypal, old, northern English surname - but these two dots are apparently impossible to join, so his Wikipedia entry is instead swathed in purple prose about his "deep roots In Ireland" (or at least it was for a long time - I think it's been toned down now).</i> <br /><br /><br />You're overreacting. The relevant passage from wikipedia reads:<br /><br /><br /><i>George Harrison, MBE (25 February 1943 – 29 November 2001) was an English musician, guitarist, singer-songwriter, actor and film producer who achieved international fame as lead guitarist of The Beatles.</i> <br /><br /><br />..<br /><br /><i>His mother was a Liverpool shop assistant, and his father was a bus conductor who had worked as a ship's steward on the White Star Line. His mother's family had Irish roots and were Roman Catholic; his maternal grandfather, John French, was born in County Wexford, Ireland, emigrating to Liverpool where he married a local girl, Louise Woollam.</i> <br /><br />Even "deep Irish roots" is hardly "purple prose"<br /><br />As for your archetypal, old, northern English <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Harrison_%28IRA%29" rel="nofollow">surname</a> ..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-2654652718548853552012-02-21T04:57:04.946-08:002012-02-21T04:57:04.946-08:00Londoner
Swansea was a founded by the vikings and...Londoner<br /><br />Swansea was a founded by the vikings and the Welch Marches were ruled over by Norman Lords - 3rd generation vikings.<br /><br />Also, in the other direction, if you go to St Davids Cathedral in Pembrokeshire, you will see the tombs of the local lords from the 12th century. Their surname was Wogan. And, as you might have guessed the Wogans invaded from Ireland and took the area over.<br /><br /><br />Maybe the Wogans were descended from the vikings who founded Cork and Dublin, or maybe they were also Celtic types.<br /><br />St Patrick was Welsh and was kidnapped by raiders from Ireland, who could also have been vikings.<br /><br />Also, back to the Germanic Eastern English, prior to the Anglo-Saxon invasions, the possibly Germanic Belgae could be found not just where Belgium now is, but also in Dorset:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BelgaeY Mochyn Saesnegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14991323486601065402012-02-20T15:28:20.990-08:002012-02-20T15:28:20.990-08:00I generally find the physical stereotype of the We...I generally find the physical stereotype of the Welsh to be very true. Relatively short, dark skinned, black-haired and pale-eyed. There is a secondary pale-skinned stereotype too, but the very dark hair and squat stature is a constant.<br /><br />Perhaps surprisingly, there is also a fairly prominent population of blonde (and often very attractive) Welsh women. Singers Katherine Jenkins and Duffy, TV presenter Lisa Rogers, model Lucy Whitehouse, more. Blonde Welsh men, however? There are hardly any. Two rugby players - Andy Powell and Alix Popham - spring to mind, but Popham has a solid Anglo-Saxon surname. Obviously this is an approximation of what you'd expect in most (northern) European populations - Steve's articles about the "fairer sex" are still some of his best IMO - but the darkness of the males is not seen in England, Scotland or Ireland.<br /><br />The predominance of coal-mining in south Wales, where the majority of the population is concentrated, must have had an impact - tall men simply cannot mine coal, as 6'4'' George Orwell discovered when he spent a day down a mine, being struck equally by the shortness of the miners and the obvious impossibility of his ever being able to work in those circumstances. I don't know if the north Welsh are taller on average.<br /><br />What divides the English from the Welsh, racially speaking, is a very interesting question. The Anglo-Saxons were heavily concentrated on the east coast, the midlands and the north, and while there were secondary concentrations in the west, largely frontiersmen in the centuries-long conflicts against the Welsh, they never settled the south, south-west or west anything like as heavily. And yet the physical differences between the Welsh and the English - of every region - remain obvious. I suspect that the pre-Anglo-Saxon inhabitants of what became England were never simply the same people as what became the Welsh - that they were substantially different ethnically and physically before the Germanic incomers were ever heard of. And most interestingly of all, there are faint suggestions that the pre-Anglo-Saxon population of what later became England may even have been a Germanic people of a vastly older stock. There is one mysterious area in Gloucestershire in the far west where the place-name evidence for this is compelling. The almost total lack of Welsh/Brythonic words in Old English - at least a few borrowings would have been expected if the conventional narrative of gradual settlement and some intermingling is even close to true - is also interesting. <br /><br />Anyway, sorry to drag this off topic, just thought I'd throw a few ideas out there.Londonernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72340972090204692062012-02-20T14:28:01.910-08:002012-02-20T14:28:01.910-08:00Obviously, suicide being highest in whites is not ...<i>Obviously, suicide being highest in whites is not consistent with suicide being linked to lower IQ. If it were linked to lower IQ then we would expect that blacks and Hispanics would have higher suicide rates than whites.<br /></i><br /><br />Perhaps a dumb Hispanic or black man finds himself surrounded by people just like him and they all feel dumb & happy together, while a dumb white man is more likely to find himself facing persons considerably smarter & unsympathetic to his plight (look at how smart white liberals love to deride dumb whites) and the awareness of his shortcomings & isolation becomes intolerable.Marlowenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73191469434614635902012-02-20T10:45:19.619-08:002012-02-20T10:45:19.619-08:00I read once a study on ECT, electro-convulsive the...I read once a study on ECT, electro-convulsive therapy (electric shocks) and who will get it, in terms of ethnicity (and probably gender and social class, education etc.)<br /><br />As I've had learned from movies, ECT is administered often as a disciplinary measure against difficult patients, I expected the Black males to receive a lot of electricity, but surprisingly, turned out they get less. Is it a symptom of an inequality, are they deprived of quality care?<br /><br />Then I started to ponder that it might be interesting to crosstabulate the ethnicity (and religion...) of the psychiatrists and the patients in ECT treatments, is there different patterns for instance with Jewish psychiatrists and Goim?<br />_ ---<br />that was written because somebody was missing comments about Jews ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41941126226182634932012-02-20T10:33:07.066-08:002012-02-20T10:33:07.066-08:00*how many of the ancestors of the Irish ancestors ...*how many of the ancestors of the Irish ancestors of this or that English person*<br /><br />by the by, I find that Irish incomers into England and their descendants generally assimilate and eventually become proud to be English a lot more readily than do the Scots and perhaps even the Welsh. Not altogether sure why, but IMO the English have more in common with the I than with the S or the W. Peter King types will doubtless disagree furiously from their country on the other side of the world!Londonernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18713941830083570392012-02-20T10:22:19.180-08:002012-02-20T10:22:19.180-08:00Londoner:
Very true!
Dr Van Nostrand:
Although ...Londoner:<br /><br />Very true!<br /><br />Dr Van Nostrand:<br /><br />Although I cannot prove it, I have no doubt that the Welshies are on average shorter than the English. Just ask any (extremely rare) tall Welsh woman/girl where she feels a freak - England or Wales? <br /><br />This makes sense when you consider that the Dutch (cousins to the Anglo-Saxons) are the tallest in Europe.<br /><br />A lot of Welsh have dark hair and eyes (Tom Jones, Catherine Zeta Jones etc) but they tend to be very pale, like the Irish, not swarthy.Y Mochyn Saesnegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91231313558453851962012-02-20T07:35:10.656-08:002012-02-20T07:35:10.656-08:00Much talk about Irish ancestry in England - yes, i...Much talk about Irish ancestry in England - yes, it is substantial, but it's probably a lot higher in Scotland, where real etho-religious tensions between the two groups still exist. Also, how many of the Irish ancestors of this or that English person were themselves English? There is a good chance that the answer is "some" or "many", but virtually no chance that the possibility will be entertained, still less investigated. For the purposes of the propagandists, as soon as one ancestor who can by any standard be described as "Irish" is found, the guillotine slams down on the need for any further research. In the wikipedia age, an informal one-drop rule appiies to the English and the Anglo population of the Anglosphere: any trace, however small, of Irish/Scottish/Welsh (and indeed any other non-English) ancestry is pushed front and centre and the person becomes "of (implicitly 100%) x ancestry".<br /><br />George Harrison is a good example: a man from the north of England with an archetypal, old, northern English surname - but these two dots are apparently impossible to join, so his Wikipedia entry is instead swathed in purple prose about his "deep roots In Ireland" (or at least it was for a long time - I think it's been toned down now).<br /><br />It just starts to feel like the deliberate erasure of the English(-descended) identity. Which is bad enough in the US or Australia, but intolerable when it happens here.Londonernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86930800001761095952012-02-20T02:37:10.675-08:002012-02-20T02:37:10.675-08:00The Welsh in general tend to be darker and shorter...The Welsh in general tend to be darker and shorter than the average Briton as they are of mostly Ibero Roman (King Arthur) extraction."<br /><br /><br />Response by <br />"Anon":That is a ludicrous assertion."<br /><br />Go to Cardiff and announce loudly in the town square the King Arthur was not one of theirs and please info me on their reaction.<br />That the Wales are considerably darker than the average Briton isnt exactly a state secret or a wild conspiracy.They take pride in their exotic appearance!If you are unaware of it or if it pains you that a European ethnic group isnt as white as you would like them to be-thats really not my problem!<br /><br /><br /><br />"......and were disproportionately represented in the infantry on Norman side in the Battle of Hastings."<br /><br />Response by "Anon":Completely false. There were no welsh at the Battle of Hastings. It was a contest between the Saxons and those frenchified vikings known as the Normans.<br /><br />You need to brush on YOUR history.There were many non NOrmans who fought on the side of Normans, including the Welsh and Bretons and the non Norman French from the South.The Welsh were still seething from the Saxon conquests.<br /><br /><br /><br />Response by "Anon":You might ought to reconsider using movies and graphic novels as historical sources.<br /><br />Oh dear,I hope you are not implying that King Arthur was an Englishman unlike those pesky movies and graphic novels which portray him as a Roman gone native!Dr Van Nostrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73030050506815903272012-02-19T18:36:31.653-08:002012-02-19T18:36:31.653-08:00I'm surprised to see so much stuff here about ...<i>I'm surprised to see so much stuff here about the Irish. I expected to see the usual slagging on Jews, gooks, geeks, and religious heretics.</i> <br /><br /><br />I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that you're not as smart as you think you are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86750943179538690212012-02-19T18:33:52.916-08:002012-02-19T18:33:52.916-08:00People asked about source data for claim that lowe...<i>People asked about source data for claim that lower IQ is linked to higher suicide rate, and that suicide is highest in Whites</i> <br /><br /><br />Obviously, suicide being highest in whites is not consistent with suicide being linked to lower IQ. If it were linked to lower IQ then we would expect that blacks and Hispanics would have higher suicide rates than whites.<br /><br />Your links are to studies in Sweden mostly, plus one each in Britain and Australia. But one of the striking things about suicide is how variable it is. From the wikipedia list of countries by suicide rate, we see that Hungary has a male suicide rate of 40 per 100,000. Italy's rate is a quarter of that - 10 per 100,000. Romania is in between, at 21 per 100,000. <br /><br />The Hungarian rate used to be even higher than it is now; it has been dropping since the end of communism.<br /><br />New Zealand (20 per 100k), Australia (15) and the UK (11) show a significant variation, even though they are genetically very similar countries. <br /><br />I know it's heresy to suggest this around here, but there seems to be a sizable non-hereditary component to suicide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33089240615312600222012-02-19T16:40:11.669-08:002012-02-19T16:40:11.669-08:00People asked about source data for claim that lowe...People asked about source data for claim that lower IQ is linked to higher suicide rate, and that suicide is highest in Whites.<br /><br />Lower IQ is associated with higher suicide rates in males:<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21296426<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20522657<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19606920<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18626557<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18331576<br /><br />Rates of suicide (age adjusted rate per 100,000) are higher in adult Whites than other ethnoracial groups:<br /> ______________Asian_Hisp_White_Black<br />2001-2003 Male 10.7__12.7__27.6__12.7<br />2001-2003 Female 3.8__2.1__6.5__2.3<br /> <br />2004-2006 Male 10.1__12.0__27.8__12.5<br />2004-2006 Female 4.4__2.3__7.1__2.2<br /> <br />2007-2009 Male 11.4__12.7__29.7__12.1<br />2007-2009 Female 4.7__2.4__7.7__2.2<br /><br /><br />Data source is CDC's Health Data Interactive<br />http://205.207.175.93/HDI/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=166Galtonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11542550046419854091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71136885439139561672012-02-19T14:19:46.827-08:002012-02-19T14:19:46.827-08:00"gene said: Paul was entirely Irish descent.
..."gene said: Paul was entirely Irish descent.<br /><br />Hunsdon replied, with shock: The walrus is dead?"<br /><br /><br />No comment. But among the top best short stories of the 20th century: "The Dead" by quintessential Irishman James Joyce who died the year John Lennon was born.genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43185727375549292952012-02-19T13:18:20.010-08:002012-02-19T13:18:20.010-08:00gene said: Paul was entirely Irish descent.
Huns...gene said: Paul was entirely Irish descent.<br /><br />Hunsdon replied, with shock: The walrus is dead?Hunsdonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88715601666131055762012-02-19T11:58:38.837-08:002012-02-19T11:58:38.837-08:00"Dr Van Nostrand said...
The Welsh in genera..."Dr Van Nostrand said...<br /><br />The Welsh in general tend to be darker and shorter than the average Briton as they are of mostly Ibero Roman (King Arthur) extraction."<br /><br />That is a ludicrous assertion.<br /><br />"......and were disproportionately represented in the infantry on Norman side in the Battle of Hastings."<br /><br />Completely false. There were no welsh at the Battle of Hastings. It was a contest between the Saxons and those frenchified vikings known as the Normans.<br /><br />You might ought to reconsider using movies and graphic novels as historical sources.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33044715002134750172012-02-19T10:47:00.581-08:002012-02-19T10:47:00.581-08:00I'm surprised to see so much stuff here about ...I'm surprised to see so much stuff here about the Irish. I expected to see the usual slagging on Jews, gooks, geeks, and religious heretics.Norman Normalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41889960482704476402012-02-19T08:50:22.608-08:002012-02-19T08:50:22.608-08:00I don't remember the context, but this line fr...<i>I don't remember the context, but this line from 'The Commitments' now seems insightful: "Do you not get it, lads? The Irish are the blacks of Europe."</i> <br /><br /><br />I don't know about Europe. But in in Britain the Irish are very overrepresented in music and sports and entertainment, so in that sense they can be considered to be "the blacks of Britain".<br /><br />The British snooker champion Ronnie O'Sullivan is of Irish descent. So are the Gallagher brothers of the band Oasis. So is Elvis Costello, and Alan Rickman, and so on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88775286336506172502012-02-19T03:06:39.664-08:002012-02-19T03:06:39.664-08:00David:
In no way do I insist (nor even suggest, f...David:<br /><br />In no way do I insist (nor even suggest, for that matter) that there's no "subconscious"--only that I have no way to establish whether or not such a thing exists. And, though I also cannot answer such question for other folks, I have no basis on which to believe (or even suspect) that their "ways of knowing" differ from my own. It's much the same as belief/disbelief in existence of a deity or "supernatural" forces in general, for that matter.<br /><br />We do know there are conditions within ourselves of which we may have no at-the-time awareness, which become known and explicable as autonomous responses to one or another condition but I don't think that those who believe there's a subconscious would include such phenomena.<br /><br />In speaking and constructing our vocabularies, however, we are not limited to only those concepts we can explain or justify on some rational ground; the sky's the limit! Thus, we have numertous words to signify things whose existence we're not at all sure about (magic, demons, ghosts, telepathy, clairvoyance, telekinesis) and even some of which we can make no sense whatever (omnipotent, omniscient) but attach to a concept of deity.<br /><br />"Subconscious" seems, to me, to be just the same sort of concept.Gene Bermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70738391963476703252012-02-19T02:33:33.451-08:002012-02-19T02:33:33.451-08:00" thought I've read that a quarter of the..." thought I've read that a quarter of the English population has Irish ancestry. Lennon and McCartney are of Irish descent."<br /><br /><br />Paul was entirely Irish descent. Lennon's mother was Scottish & English. His father, who was raised in an orphanage, was of dubious parentage and one bio I read said Lennon Sr.'s Irish ancestry was uncertain.<br />George Harrison's mother was Irish entirely. Not sure about his father. There are pictures of George in Ireland visting relatives as a child.genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84179032620478094692012-02-18T19:51:57.861-08:002012-02-18T19:51:57.861-08:00lower IQ whites, have the highest rates of suicide...<i>lower IQ whites, have the highest rates of suicide.</i><br /><br />That's news to me, considering that life, and society, are so good to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com