tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post8901919038034390682..comments2024-03-29T05:14:33.223-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Environmentalism = FashionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79128572646773512032009-11-05T16:08:52.979-08:002009-11-05T16:08:52.979-08:00well, at the minimum, climate change is absolutely...well, at the minimum, climate change is absolutely, positively fashion. if proponents of the idea, and the potential consequences, were serious, every single one of them would be very strongly in favor of a nuclear build out.<br /><br />but they aren't. so, i'm so supposed to believe they're good enough at science and math to detect "for certain" that climate change is happening, is partly or wholly due to humans, and could cause serious problems, again "for certain"" in less than 100 years. but at the same time i'm supposed to believe the same people think a build out of photovoltaic cells and windmills can replace oil and coal, when they definitely, DEFINITELY, cannot. the energy density is not there, nor will it EVER be.<br /><br />it already makes sense to transition to improved fission reactors, and eventually, fusion reactors, since all of the oil and coal is going to be used up at some point anyway. might as well begin the change over right now, today. go for the highest energy density and lowest pollution of any energy source, fusion, which powers stars, and should power human cities by 2100.jodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19115859525108466872009-11-05T16:05:54.516-08:002009-11-05T16:05:54.516-08:00Whatever happened to the spotted owl? According to...Whatever happened to the spotted owl? According to wiki the friggin bird is dying off despite closing millions of acres of federal land to logging.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64608377667888378082009-11-05T14:36:23.995-08:002009-11-05T14:36:23.995-08:00Here's an environmental issue that looks like ...Here's an environmental issue that looks like it may be worth a little attention:<br /><br />http://bit.ly/2ZYVhARay Sawhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02434181069400646328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60767245332675543052009-11-05T12:10:16.099-08:002009-11-05T12:10:16.099-08:00"Rich countries gain, poor countries lose for...<a href="http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0313-forests.html" rel="nofollow">"Rich countries gain, poor countries lose forest cover</a> ... Globally, forest cover has generally been expanding in North America, Europe and China while diminishing in the tropics."<br /><br />"Whether you're rich or poor, it's nice to have money."Le Murnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38882222657882019022009-11-05T10:16:36.920-08:002009-11-05T10:16:36.920-08:00Pseudo, I'm an environmentalist, but it seem t...Pseudo, I'm an environmentalist, but it seem to be that you claimed some of the same areas were desertified both by ex-Mideastern nomads, and also by the Roman empire. Which is it?blue anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72872018765146097682009-11-05T04:53:50.462-08:002009-11-05T04:53:50.462-08:00P.S.: Kinda like how the Sierra Club backed down o...<i>P.S.: Kinda like how the Sierra Club backed down on its opposition to unlimited immigration -- because of accusations of racism</i> <br /><br />Are you the only one here who doesn't know it was David Gelbaum's 100 million dollars (he was specific as to what it was for) that did that, or are you just trying to get someone else to mention it?Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32932498420693779622009-11-04T21:27:38.173-08:002009-11-04T21:27:38.173-08:00If any grumpy Conservatives here bothered to consu...If any grumpy Conservatives here bothered to consult Wiki they'd find out these problems still exist but it's no longer newsworthy. After all, wars, killings, rapes and strife continue to ravage the African continent but who cares? The Congolese suffered for the sake of rubber a century ago now they suffer for coltan but it's not news. It's a combination of NIMBYism and compassion fatigue.Gilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13582165682236222352009-11-04T20:49:19.434-08:002009-11-04T20:49:19.434-08:00I have often wondered if forests in the Amazon cou...I have often wondered if forests in the Amazon couldn't be chopped down and composted for soil rather than burned. Since rain forest vegetation contains the large majority of the nutrients, wouldn't this make the soil sufficiently rich? Couldn't farming and grazing activities be sustained on a parcel of land for a much longer period of time, reducing the need to slash and burn every few years? I guess this wouldn't work because I have have never read of any attempt to do this. Why isn't this viable?tommynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35184832104595783842009-11-04T20:13:39.431-08:002009-11-04T20:13:39.431-08:00"The spread of the degradation of the soil wa..."The spread of the degradation of the soil was centrifugal from Latium itself outwards. Varro noted abandoned fields in Latium, and two centuries later Columella, about A.D. 60, referred to all Latium as a country where the people would have died of starvation, but for their share of Rome's imported corn. The Roman armies moved outwards from Latium demanding land; victory gave more land to the farmers; excessive demands again brought exhaustion of fertility; again the armies moved outwards.<br /><br />'Province after province was turned by Rome into a desert,' wrote Simkhovitch, 'for Rome's exactions naturally compelled greater exploitation of the conquered soil and its more rapid exhaustion. Province after province was conquered by Rome to feed the growing proletariat with its corn and to enrich the prosperous with its loot. The devastation of war abroad and at home helped the process along. The only exception to the rule of spoliation and exhaustion was Egypt, because of the overflow of the Nile. For this reason Egypt played a unique role in the empire. It was the emperor's personal possession, and neither senators nor knights could visit it without special permission, for even a small force, as Tacitus stated, might "block up the plentiful corn country and reduce all Italy to submission".'<br /><br />Latium, Campania, Sardinia, Sicily, Spain, Northern Africa, as Roman granaries, were successively reduced to exhaustion. Abandoned land in Latium and Campania turned into swamps, in Northern Africa into desert. The forest-clad hills were denuded. 'The decline of the Roman Empire is a story of deforestation, soil exhaustion and erosion,' wrote Mr. G. V. Jacks in The Rape of the Earth. 'From Spain to Palestine there are no forests left on the Mediterranean littoral, the region is pronouncedly arid instead of having the mild humid character of forest-clad land, and most of its former bounteously rich top-soil is lying at the bottom of the sea.'<br /><br />- http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_3-5.html#Ch5Pseudothyrumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16964917454679679902009-11-04T19:49:22.942-08:002009-11-04T19:49:22.942-08:00Another quote:
"The Nomads have been the gre...Another quote:<br /><br />"The Nomads have been the great human desert-makers, and the deserts of the Gobi, the Lop Nor, the Taklamakan, the Registan, the Great Salt Desert, the Syrian Desert, and even the Arabian Desert and the Sahara of Africa are due to their treatment of the soil. Nor is this desert-making by men at an end. It is going on at the present, as future chapters will show, in North and South America, in Russia, in Asia, in North and South Africa, in Australia, and even in the islands of New Zealand and the West Indies, with a speed that outstrips that of the Asiatic Nomads, so much so that it may even be said that man, in this proud scientific era, has paid for his all-too-swift advance by the loss of terrene capital, of the fertility of the soil. He has become the great transferrer of this capital to other fields than those of the soil, and, by his destruction of the soil, has foredoomed himself to God knows what impending calamities, exceeding those brought about by the Asiatic Nomads, unless he calls a halt." <br /><br />- http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_6.htmlPseudothyrumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61117033854879223002009-11-04T19:47:20.719-08:002009-11-04T19:47:20.719-08:00As an example of what will happen to the Amazon ba...As an example of what will happen to the Amazon basin if it continues to be deforested, just look to North Africa. Massive forests used to exist in North Africa and even in to what is now the Sahara Desert -- as recently as the 6th millennium BC at the beginning of the Neolithic Period much of North Africa was covered with dense forests and vegetation. <br /><br />Well, eventually a bunch of nomadic herders of Near Eastern origin came along, clear-cut the land of trees for their migratory herds and some crops, and slowly but surely desertification set in and the land became almost entirely worthless as viable and productive living space. Now all that exists there in North Africa in what were once lush, wet, dense forests is a lot of sand and some nomadic Arabs with their camels and some very hardy goats struggling to make it across the wrecked desert stretches from one water-hole to another.<br /><br />The same was true of Italy, Spain, Greece, etc as recently as ancient Greek/Roman times -- all of those areas used to be heavily forested but after having their forests denuded now all are dry, dusty, and hostile semi-deserts, ruined by clear-cutting Near Eastern nomads and their rapacious herds.<br /><br />---<br /><br />"Nature followed the rule of return, and the Nomads, unlike the true farmers, failed to follow the, rule of return. Indirectly, by cutting down trees and shrubs for fuel and for ash, they made the soil drier. Rain fell and was by nature broken into a fine spray by trees, shrubs and thick grass and was thus evenly and widely spread in the topsoil. The topsoil, sheltered from sun and rain, stored the water. By slow evaporation from the vegetation, the water was returned to the air. But where excess of cattle fed upon the land and where trees and shrubs were widely burnt, the soil was exposed, dried and powdered, and then blown away by the winds or washed away by the rain. So a district of desert was formed, which forced the Nomads to move on. Nature then returned and in many cases restored the ravage. But if the destruction of fertility had been too great or if the half-recovered soil was again used for crops and grazing, permanent deterioration was the result.<br /><br />The Nomads, then, lived a life of ill-balance by not following the rule of return, which is the only stable rule of living. They were, therefore, forced to live a life of chance. They depended on the seasons and, as the seasons varied, they themselves were necessarily speculative. In this character, indeed, they were like to other kinds of speculators, many prominent at the present time. Speculators disregard the rule of return. They strive to gain without giving; they disregard future generations; they are indifferent to the sufferings of others, provided they themselves can escape suffering. Yet eventually there is no escape from the effects of these actions, because ultimately their values are destructive and not conservative."<br /><br />- http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_6.htmlPseudothyrumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43605034976235323492009-11-04T17:32:55.013-08:002009-11-04T17:32:55.013-08:00In fact, the South Bronx has less crime than Johan...<i><br />In fact, the South Bronx has less crime than Johannesburg. Why are people so afraid to walk the streets of South Bronx?<br /><br />Seriously, you guys sound like a bunch of libs talking about HBD.<br /><br />-airtommy</i><br /><br />You don't get it, do you? <br /><br />Not only is the Amazon forest more pristine and less threatened than American forests, it is something Americans have less control over than our own forests. <br /><br />Liberals in San Francisco love to talk about ANWR and the North Bank, but they are totally ineffective in their own backyard. Who would ever take these jokers seriously? Certainly not the farmers who clear land in south Brazil.<br /><br />It is soooo much easier to mount a campaign over something purely symbolic than it is to do anything about where you, personally, live. It is also cowardly and a waste of everyone's time.Billhttp://www.welmer.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-85101114084139953382009-11-04T15:08:49.469-08:002009-11-04T15:08:49.469-08:00In fact, the Amazon rain forest is far more intact...<i>In fact, the Amazon rain forest is far more intact than any major forest in the United States.</i><br /><br />In fact, the South Bronx has less crime than Johannesburg. Why are people so afraid to walk the streets of South Bronx?<br /><br />Seriously, you guys sound like a bunch of libs talking about HBD.airtommynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72426838005222294782009-11-04T14:25:35.341-08:002009-11-04T14:25:35.341-08:00I always assumed it got cut down. What a bore the ...I always assumed it got cut down. What a bore the subject was, by the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74980853744750374612009-11-04T12:02:37.147-08:002009-11-04T12:02:37.147-08:00They would always say "WE are destroying the ...They would always say "WE are destroying the rainforest" when it was the Brazilians.C. Van Carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918883799053031223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10509800211809000612009-11-04T11:23:49.250-08:002009-11-04T11:23:49.250-08:00RandyB said
> New Jersey [has] done a masterfu...RandyB said<br /><br />> New Jersey [has] done a masterful job of partitioning its land into suburban, industrial, recreational and wild land, that would serve as a good model for developing mu[c]h of the west <<br /><br />Yeah, because if there's one thing the West should become, it's more like New Jersey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17745898805076028552009-11-04T10:37:58.807-08:002009-11-04T10:37:58.807-08:00And what about the hole in the freaking ozone laye...And what about the hole in the freaking ozone layer? It was going to kill us all, remember? <br /><br />If global cooling goes on for another 5-10 years, they'll have to come up with something else. What could it be? Dysgenics? j/k, that would be too factual.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52563191781496715082009-11-04T10:28:53.860-08:002009-11-04T10:28:53.860-08:00I see the appeal of tribalism. I really do, hell I...I see the appeal of tribalism. I really do, hell I'm halfway to WN.<br /><br />Pollution is an obvious case of the tragedy of the commons. Rivers really did catch fire, acid rain was not pretend. Now one can probably find 'tards who thought acid rain would burn their skin off in a downpour, but reduction in fishery output, making national forrests where people like hiking and such uglier, that was real too.<br /> <br /><br />Ends and means are not bad just because the "swipples" like them. Arguem ad Obama=Hitler is just as much as a fallacy as original.<br /><br />"Medicine = fashion"<br /><br />I remember when they were all concerned and shit about polio and cholera. Now they talk about obesity and Alzheimers.<br /><br />"Drug scare = fashion"<br /><br />People used to be worried about 'shrooms. Now they all care about methamphetamine. Shrooms didn't go away.<br /><br />Foriegn policy = fashion<br /><br />They used to want to invade Afghanistan. Now they want to invade Iran. WTF?<br /><br />Actually the foreign policy one is pretty true.<br /><br /><br />Sometimes people stop caring about a problem because it's largely fixed, like lead in gasoline. Or because they noticed a much bigger problem. Changing one's response to changes in reality isn't wishywashy, it isn't even all that smart, it is just not being retarded.<br /><br />Losing South American jungle is terrible. Just losing the fungi and bacteria would be a disaster. There may not be anything unexploited worth exploiting in Europe, but South America is full of the dimmest Europeans, Black Africans, and the peasant classes of Pre-Columbian cultures after the elite were slaughtered. There's lots of things they wouldn't even know were awesome.robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91462535186077845752009-11-04T10:25:00.301-08:002009-11-04T10:25:00.301-08:00Here's an excerpt from a Wired article about d...Here's an excerpt from a Wired article about deforestation in Puerto Rico:<br /><br />"He points to a road that winds through the western fringe of El Yunque, the Caribbean National Forest, the only tropical rain forest in the US national forest system. Picture One, an aerial photograph taken in 1951, shows the area on the west side of the road:clear-cut, mowed down, absolutely denuded of trees. It looks like stumps and dead grass. The east side of the road, by contrast, is deep, dark, and flush with vegetation, an untouched virgin rain forest. <br /><br />Picture Two shows the same area 13 years later: from the aerial photograph, both sides of the road are identical. "sabrilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86084583040389704212009-11-04T10:20:03.105-08:002009-11-04T10:20:03.105-08:00"the cycle of nutrients in tropical systems b..."the cycle of nutrients in tropical systems behaves very differently and deforestation there becomes effectively permanent."<br /><br />I am happy to look at your evidence, but it seems to me that if the rainforest were as fragile as you claim, it would have disappeared long ago.sabrilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78743339384199359492009-11-04T10:12:16.843-08:002009-11-04T10:12:16.843-08:00I used to be employed at judging the effectiveness...I used to be employed at judging the effectiveness of public programs. I learned that there are two two equally bad outcomes for government - the program is shown to have not worked and the program is shown to have been successful.<br /><br />Most government programs can survive even after it has been demonstrated that they simply don't work. For example Head Start. Much more serious is success.<br /><br />Environmental problems were indeed real. For example in the San Francisco Bay Area in the sixties the air was bad and the bay was being rapidly filled in. It was only half as big as it had been when whites first saw it. Furthermore the beaches were being privatized and the best of the big tree forests were under attack.<br /><br />All those problems were solved quickly and simply. The major player in those reforms was surprisingly Ronald Reagan.<br /><br />In fact environment problems are quite easy to solve and almost all of them were solved decades ago. Alas, the crazy rhetoric endures.albertosaurushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13209465319904999278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81487598208950195522009-11-04T10:03:27.744-08:002009-11-04T10:03:27.744-08:00If you have Google Earth, feel free to look at the...If you have Google Earth, feel free to look at the forest in Brazil. It is not "disappearing". In fact, the Amazon rain forest is far more intact than any major forest in the United States.Billhttp://www.welmer.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90454947216083886122009-11-04T09:46:58.764-08:002009-11-04T09:46:58.764-08:00P.S.: Kinda like how the Sierra Club backed down o...P.S.: Kinda like how the Sierra Club backed down on its opposition to unlimited immigration -- because of accusations of racism -- maybe 'progressives' looked at who's cutting down the rainforests. Almost no WASPs whacking away with machetes.lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82799827187317923652009-11-04T09:12:46.177-08:002009-11-04T09:12:46.177-08:00"Environmentalism = Fascism"
That's..."Environmentalism = Fascism"<br /><br />That's what I first thought was the title.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65319693176792994802009-11-04T07:40:36.584-08:002009-11-04T07:40:36.584-08:00"l said...
Lefties used to be worried about ..."l said...<br /><br />Lefties used to be worried about the Amazonian rainforest being chopped down, until they got enthusiastic about Brazil's sugar cane-based ethanol ("green"/"alternative"/"sustainable")."<br /><br />And the sugar can is harvested by machete-swinging coolies, who labor in the hot sun so that Petrobras executives can drive ethanol powered mercedes with the money they made selling Brazil's oil to foreigners.<br /><br />But the deforestation of the Amazon basin has an upside: the desertification should increase the Earth's albedo which should help with that global warming. Tell that to an environmentalist.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.com