tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post9024695075976934445..comments2024-03-19T02:31:02.140-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: "Libyan rebels reject African Union peace plan"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1467485992229285922011-04-17T10:10:38.107-07:002011-04-17T10:10:38.107-07:00>The Libyan opposition is made up of crazies, t...>The Libyan opposition is made up of crazies, thugs, ignoramouses [sic], and/or tribalists.<<br /><br />Sounds like democracy to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42275068754473333912011-04-17T10:09:53.711-07:002011-04-17T10:09:53.711-07:00>BTW, what exactly was Gaddafi purportedly doin...<b>>BTW, what exactly was Gaddafi purportedly doing to kill his citizens before this flare up and how many did he kill? There are no catchy monikers like "rape rooms" and I've never seen it laid out.<</b><br /><br />I asked that question on another blog. The clueless response was: "He killed [x number] of the rebels this week!"<br /><br />Jody said<br /><br /><b>"what is the evidence that gaddafi is deliberately killing bystander civilians who had nothing to do with the rebellion? i continue to hear that this is happening and that this is the reason it makes sense for the US to start a war with libya. but so far all i see is gaddafi infantry, armor, and artillery killing rebels. not random libyan civilians who were minding their own business"</b><br /><br />Oh, Jody. Look up "collateral damage" and "civilian casualties." Plenty of innocent people are killed in battles. That's business as usual: war is hell. And yes, it's no reason for us to step in and start an even bigger battle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73777796705768113432011-04-16T17:47:53.778-07:002011-04-16T17:47:53.778-07:00headache said...And Gadfly is apparently a private...<i>headache said...And Gadfly is apparently a private admirer of Israel and has ties to their security outfits.</i><br /><br />Under the matrilineal descent of Judaism, Khadafi is a Jew--sort of. He was <a href="http://libyamonitor.blogspot.com/2008/09/gaddafis-mother-was-jew-converted-to.html" rel="nofollow">born of a Jewish mother</a> who converted to Islam at age nine. <br /><br />One of the Libyan rebels told an American journalist that their gripe with Khadify if that "He's a Jew."Harry Baldwinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65559831903110980362011-04-15T03:28:29.419-07:002011-04-15T03:28:29.419-07:00Gaddafi would have to be really stupid to ever acc...Gaddafi would have to be really stupid to ever accept any ceasefire that puts him out of power. Immediately he did so the same NATO governments would be demanding his extradition to put on a show trial (a la Milosevic). Perhaps NATO would promise not to do so but we already promised that if Gaddafi gave up his wmds we would let him back into the club of friendly dictators so the market value of a western political promise is not high.<br /><br />Note the way that Britain, with no visible opposition from the US, decided not to charge Moussa Koussa with the Pan Am bombing. He was Libya's intelligence chief at the time so if Megrahi and Libya were involved (something I dount, I think it was always Sytia bit they became our ally in Iraq 1) he is certainly guilty. <br /><br />But hey - he is now part of the democratic opposition, along with our al Quaeda pals so lets not argue and bicker about who killed who. Replacing Gaddafi with these scum is now a pressing national need because if he isn't the politicians are going to be seen as incompetent, corrupt, buffoons.neil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50361993122318873602011-04-13T11:29:41.880-07:002011-04-13T11:29:41.880-07:00EvilNeoCon/Whiskey/Testing99
Air power alone will...<i>EvilNeoCon/Whiskey/Testing99<br /><br />Air power alone will have the same effect on regime change as it did with Saddam. Clinton dropped a lot of bombs on Saddam, to get him to allow inspectors back in, and Saddam just shrugged it off.<br /><br />Air power is not a magic wand. It can kill armor very well in the Desert if it moves, and even kill it fairly well in non-Jungle areas. But that's all. It has failed EVERY TIME it has been used alone, without troops on the ground, to eject regimes. EVERY TIME.<br /></i><br /><br />I'm impressed by the facts you seem to know and how artfully you misconstrue, omit and outright lie about them to weave your narrative.<br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia" rel="nofollow">The 1999 NATO bombing campaign</a> successfully ended that conflict. Air power may be less effective against hardened Afgan mountain warriors, but Libyans have repeatedly shown themselves to be worse fighters than their former Italian colonizers.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1750" rel="nofollow">UN inspectors were withdrawn for their own safety in preparation for plann US airstrikes</a>. Clinton did not start bombing to force Saddam to let the inspectors back in. <br /><br />Saddam desperately sent invitations to the UN and the US to have them inspect anything they wanted to stave off the US-led invasion.<br /><br />Similarly, <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joe_conason/2006/03/31/bush_lies" rel="nofollow">Bush got inspectors pulled out</a> because they were not finding the WMDs he wanted and said they were not likely to find any.Evil99Whiskeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7837065858457259562011-04-13T05:29:28.174-07:002011-04-13T05:29:28.174-07:00AmericanGoy:
I don't suppose many people here...AmericanGoy:<br /><br />I don't suppose many people here are lauding Gadaffi for his calm, rational, Lee Kwan Yew like management style. The world is full of thuggish, none-too-sane leaders, and in the nature of things, those leaders tend to do nasty things to their people. Mostly, we don't get involved, because after all, they're foreign countries, and our government's job is to look after the interests of its citizens, not to police the world. <br /><br />Were it up to me, we would have left Gadaffi and his rebels to solve their own problems as best they were able. And we'd similarly be out of Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Our response to international terrorist attacks would have very little nation building, and a lot of refusing visas and police work, with a side order of absolutely knocking the shit out of countries whose governments were plausibly connected to terrorist attacks. Whiskey is correct that you can't do nation building or win civil wars from the air. But you can turn the capitol city of the country into a smoldering ruin from the air, and that's the sort of thing that makes an impression on leaders of other governments. <br /><br />This would provide less opportunity for gold-plated defense contracts and neocons who think they're Kimball O'Hara playing the great game, but it would probably work better than what we're doing now.none of the abovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8027946774095359842011-04-12T22:32:05.321-07:002011-04-12T22:32:05.321-07:00"Have you never wondered why he did those thi..."Have you never wondered why he did those things?"<br /><br />Do some more research on the crazy colonel. He was a self styled revolutionary, sending his troops and agents/terrorists hither and thither,<br /><br />He had troops in Uganda helping Idi Amin.<br /><br />He was fighting in Chad's civil war, against Chad's army and the French.<br /><br />There are many more examples of Libyans being involved all over Africa stirring s**t up.<br /><br />The American bombing authorized by Reagan of Libya was as a response of hostile (and quite idiotic) acts by this madman and not the cause.<br /><br />Basically, once one researches "tghe colonel" one realizes that the man had illusions of grandeur and liked to stir s**t up... for the hell of it.AmericanGoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865892490752172185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84496142877304575412011-04-12T21:59:43.134-07:002011-04-12T21:59:43.134-07:00France's dealings in Africa are nothing new.France's dealings in Africa are <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/inside-frances-secret-war-396062.html" rel="nofollow">nothing new</a>.TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17008271995295758632011-04-12T20:04:07.043-07:002011-04-12T20:04:07.043-07:00Jody:
I think the decision to intervene in Libya ...Jody:<br /><br />I think the decision to intervene in Libya just happened too fast for our propaganda mechanisms (aka respectable US media) to get fired up. Had they had a few months to work on it, we would all know the first names of Gadaffi's horrifying evil sons who tortured puppies and dissidents for fun, we'd have atrocity stories about rape rooms and plastic shredders and Kuwaiti babies dumped out of incubators and Chinese babies carried on bayonet tips and so on. Some of these stories might even have been true, but they'd have worked no better than the fake ones. <br /><br />The other difference is that, with all that propaganda work done, anyone who called the war into question in public would have to hedge it five ways, to avoid being accused of being some kind of pro-rape-room, pro-plastic-shredder monster. I mean, these guys are honestly quite good at their jobs.none of the abovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67179295419156204862011-04-12T17:34:00.084-07:002011-04-12T17:34:00.084-07:00Whiskey, That's an interesting thesis re R2P ...Whiskey, That's an interesting thesis re R2P vis Israel. I don't see this line in mainstream neocon stuff (yet). Who knew you were a maverick ultra plus neo-con?<br />Gilbert Pinfold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14409845790603050952011-04-12T14:32:27.844-07:002011-04-12T14:32:27.844-07:00Let me add, the unrest started over basic economic...Let me add, the unrest started over basic economic issues. ME populations are poor and have little margin, so food price rises hit them hard first. We'll see the same dynamic here soon enough.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-63290486616167629002011-04-12T14:31:47.669-07:002011-04-12T14:31:47.669-07:00Israel would prefer Khadaffi stay, since he's ...Israel would prefer Khadaffi stay, since he's a known quantity and hostile to the Muslim Brotherhood/AQ who will be the only group to replace him. Just as they preferred Mubarak to the Brotherhood, and the Saudi Kings to AQ, and even Assad to AQ.<br /><br />However ... Sarko must have got wind of Khadaffi's plans to Mariel Boatlift his way back to power, and doesn't want Camp of the Saints. That's why he's all hot and bothered for bombing, along with Cameron (who also fears all those Muslims in France moving north into the UK). Italy has just moved them along, and is divided anyway, with Berlusconis Bunga-Bunga trial, so the Italians don't care and can't do much even if they could (already significant parts of Southern Italy are under Muslim immigrant control). Samantha Power, Susan Rice, and Hillary all want "R2P" enshrined so they can "solve" the ME "peace problem" by using it to invade Israel to "protect" the Gazans from the predictable consequences of rocketing Israel.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32885682077555536112011-04-12T14:24:19.211-07:002011-04-12T14:24:19.211-07:00Air power alone will have the same effect on regim...Air power alone will have the same effect on regime change as it did with Saddam. Clinton dropped a lot of bombs on Saddam, to get him to allow inspectors back in, and Saddam just shrugged it off.<br /><br />Air power is not a magic wand. It can kill armor very well in the Desert if it moves, and even kill it fairly well in non-Jungle areas. But that's all. It has failed EVERY TIME it has been used alone, without troops on the ground, to eject regimes. EVERY TIME.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53792771074978679182011-04-12T12:31:55.175-07:002011-04-12T12:31:55.175-07:00what is the evidence that gaddafi is deliberately ...what is the evidence that gaddafi is deliberately killing bystander civilians who had nothing to do with the rebellion?<br /><br />i continue to hear that this is happening and that this is the reason it makes sense for the US to start a war with libya. but so far all i see is gaddafi infantry, armor, and artillery killing rebels. not random libyan civilians who were minding their own business, but the guys who starting the shooting in the first place, the guys who want to kill gaddafi, the guys who gaddifi is fighting back against.<br /><br />you would imagine US television news would be all over this, bringing sweeping visions of bystanders getting mowed down into american homes. so far, nothing of the sort. lots of legitimate video of actual force-versus-force engagement though. well, to be more accurate, 30 seconds of the rebels firing a few soviet machineguns in the general direction of...something...then running away in their trucks.jodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71569250766113039062011-04-12T12:22:25.546-07:002011-04-12T12:22:25.546-07:00On a somewhat related matter it seems the French h...On a somewhat related matter it seems the French have become somewhat belligerent in matters concerning Africa. They've been fighting in the country of Ivory Coast, backing the Ouattara faction. Their clients seem to have been committing massacres and various atrocious acts, not a group one would want to be publicly associated with. It seems they've tried to deflect culpability for this by blaming it on "mercenaries" from other African countries, which has a familiar ring to it.<br />The French backed group is also reported as mainly Muslim; the losing side being ousted described as Christian. What the implications of this are is hard to puzzle out. I wonder what the French are hoping to accomplish by becoming militarily involved in this obscure conflict and ushering into power this odious group; it couldn't be something as mundane as grabbing the cocoa supply, could it?Chicagonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14776841099306851032011-04-12T11:14:37.636-07:002011-04-12T11:14:37.636-07:00This ignores the significant probability that NATO...This ignores the significant probability that NATO will simply lose.<br /><br />I think Obama's strategy is to make the responsibility for results in the war diffuse enough to vote present and slip away in the night. Hence fobbing it off on NATO, where who exactly is in charge, to what end?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47285741464590224022011-04-12T10:14:15.733-07:002011-04-12T10:14:15.733-07:00"To make a point by stating the obvious: Obam...<i>"To make a point by stating the obvious: Obama will not personally do any bomb dropping... In fact, he would never in a million years have gone into the military."</i><br /><br />Obama would never in a million years have succeeded in any habitat other than the hothouse environment of AA created by whites.Kylienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38946239532675209802011-04-12T10:03:59.119-07:002011-04-12T10:03:59.119-07:00Difference Maker said...
As likable as he is, and ...Difference Maker said...<br /><i>As likable as he is, and as hated by the Jews, there can be no absolution. ..</i><br><br />I read on some army site that Israel is actually arming and managing his counter-offensive, in return for big bucks and probably lower future oil prices.<br />Apparently IDF operatives working for Israeli Security companies are managing the logistics of importing the mercenaries and obtaining weapons. And Gadfly is apparently a private admirer of Israel and has ties to their security outfits.headachenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1574277018857644732011-04-12T10:00:35.690-07:002011-04-12T10:00:35.690-07:00"I would love to see some peace loving group ..."I would love to see some peace loving group in the USA exercise their 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech rights and commit to burning one Koran per week until the Obama administration commits to ending all the wars in Muslim countries and bringing all American servicemen and woman home."<br /><br />Here's a start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riSJcZC89HcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66310022921724797662011-04-12T09:41:18.216-07:002011-04-12T09:41:18.216-07:00Yeah, it's Libya, not Ghaddaffey. If there...Yeah, it's Libya, not Ghaddaffey. If there'd been no civil unrest, no civil war, no headlines, and then BAM some sniper put a bullet in his head, or they blew him to bits with a smart bomb, I'd have raised a glass. One of his sons would have taken over, and that would be that. And if the son lost the reins, well, that's his problem; it's not like Ghaddaffey was going to live forever.<br /><br />It's the bombing and the regime change and the interventionism that I can't get behind.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23886713588555675592011-04-12T09:37:31.011-07:002011-04-12T09:37:31.011-07:00I suspect there is more than a little bit of simpl...I suspect there is more than a little bit of simple race hatred here.<br /><br />We call everything and everybody on that continent African, but there are big rifts in their Pan African brotherhood.<br /><br />Historically of course Libya and Tunisia were what the ancient world called Africa and they were inhabited then as now by Caucasians. Scipio's invasion of Africa was to fight the Semitic Carthaginians. North Africa is still dominated by Semites like Arabs and Berbers. Or Hamites like Egyptians.<br /><br />These civilized northern Africans feel little connection to the Blacks who come from further south. So why should they honor the wishes of the African Union?<br /><br />Muslims have long considered Blacks to be the least valuable slaves. Why would anyone expect the Libyan rebels to pay special attention to "Jacob Zuma of South Africa and other African leaders"?<br /><br />AlbertosaurusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8698714720104989782011-04-12T09:37:29.194-07:002011-04-12T09:37:29.194-07:00I can't help but sympathise with Gadaffi in so...<i>I can't help but sympathise with Gadaffi in some twisted way. I just want to see the three stooges with eggs on their faces.</i><br /><br />Me too. Maybe it's my contrary nature. Maybe it's my contra-TPTB nature. Maybe I should hate the guy and want to see him gone. But I just don't. I just don't care. I know he probably has blood on his hands with the airliner thing. I know that should make me want to see him gone, but it doesn't.<br /><br />Maybe that's because I suspect that having him gone will cause more problems for Libyans than having him stay, said (likely) suffering outweighing the revenge urge over white folks long dead. Well, that, combined with the fact I don't trust TPTB and their mission.<br /><br />Maybe I just think it's time to ease up on bombing people in the ME.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20989796300674384652011-04-12T09:22:20.203-07:002011-04-12T09:22:20.203-07:00Reply to Americangoy:
Have you never wondered why...Reply to Americangoy:<br /><br />Have you never wondered why he did those things? What acts did he take against Canada or Mexico? Nothing. But these countries did not pursue a hostile foreign policy against him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26609044114468963072011-04-12T07:22:34.542-07:002011-04-12T07:22:34.542-07:00"Obama,Cameron,and Sarko, for reasons best el...<i>"Obama,Cameron,and Sarko, for reasons best elucidated by a psychiatrist, want to deliver the Middle East to religious fundamentalists in the guise of 'democracy and freedom'...<br /><br />Although I am tempted to believe that a forensic accountant could shed light on the matter, a darker visions now seems possible: that our 'leaders' are actually acting out of a deep sense of conviction."</i><br /><br />I've thought for some time now that these fools actually believe the tripe they peddle. I also think that ultimately, they care more about the welfare and "rights" of these religious fundamentalists than they do about their countrymen who elected them.Kylienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74926598361462551412011-04-12T07:18:30.281-07:002011-04-12T07:18:30.281-07:00http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM...http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jzDaCMbfs6awFjepxeRIpbl6e3pw?docId=CNG.864e5bdaf5e056f22152cf07470cb4b2.4a1<br /><br />Gobsmackingly, the US has stopped bombing Q-dog. We stopped bombing him a week ago. I really don't think that this has penetrated into most Americans' conscious awareness--our alliance is bombing, we must be bombing and the other guys are window dressing, right?<br /><br />No. The British and French are bombing, we are just fueling and surveilling. Okay, our Secret Squirrels are somewhere in the desert, but we're out of the fight.<br /><br />So we made an enemy with a history of support for terrorists and playing with chemical and bioweapons, we broke the only successful agreement on record for a pro-terrorist dictatorship to reform and Play Nice, and we're making NO effort to win. <br /><br />--Anonymous CowardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com