tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post1803613900735798928..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: "Myth of American Meritocracy" now onlineUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64525933384290394722012-12-15T07:23:12.776-08:002012-12-15T07:23:12.776-08:00Steve, this is an excellent, thought provoking art...Steve, this is an excellent, thought provoking article. And while I agree with most of the author’s conclusions and admire his intellectual honesty and even audacity to publish it, I do disagree with one of his conclusion namely “the collapse of Jewish academic achievement.” I believe Ron Unz incorrectly equates a relative Jewish achievement decline to an actual Jewish achievement decline. This is not an uncommon mistake. Let me explain.<br />Let us assume that in a mythical high school in California the student body includes no east or south asian students. And with 2,000 students taking the PSAT, the top 0.5% or 10 students currently include 4 Jews, 5 non-Jewish whites and 1 black student. Now imagine that a Nobel prize winning WASP scientist has discoverd a pill (given only to non-Jewish white students) that improves their IQ by one SD and therefore improves their academic performance accordingly. In this hypothetical new world, although the Jewish student performance remains exactly the same, the top 10 students now include only 2 Jews, and 8 non-Jewish whites. Therefore the relative Jewish performance has dropped by half (from 40% to 20% of the top students) without any change in the actual Jewish performance.<br />Something similar is certainly at work here. The introduction of large number high achieving east and south Asians students in American high schools, implies that there is a collapse of Jewish academic achievement (along with non-Jewish white academic achievement), but does not prove in any way that the Jewish and non-Jewish white academic performance has actually declined.<br />On a side note, I am reminded of a humorous episode from the 1990s. My Jewish friend (who was then a partner at a prestigious NY law firm) told me that his daughter came home one day from school elated that she was now ranked third in her class. When he asked her why third, why not first or second, her immediate response was “well they are both Indians.” In other words, she clearly understood at age 10 that the demographics of her classroom had undergone a significant change with the introduction of the Indians, and while her performance had not declined she could no longer expect to be ranked first or second.Nurashinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-76415663524866834162012-12-01T23:24:56.906-08:002012-12-01T23:24:56.906-08:00"...All he has are scores from the PSAT, a te..."...All he has are scores from the PSAT, a test that's virtually meaningless..."<br /><br />Yes, PSAT is meaningless. It is meaningless not only for the universities, but also for the kids. I know, I am a teacher. This is similar to the NAEP. These things are just not that important for most kids.<br />Also, the Asian kids take the PSAT in much larger numbers than the whites.bla-blanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69059045772459619952012-12-01T18:34:38.965-08:002012-12-01T18:34:38.965-08:00Accidentally posted this on old thread. Here it i...Accidentally posted this on old thread. Here it is again:<br /><br />Russell K. Nieli on study by Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Radford (mentioned by Unz):<br /><br /><br />“When lower-class whites are matched with lower-class blacks and other non-whites the degree of the non-white advantage becomes astronomical: lower-class Asian applicants are seven times as likely to be accepted to the competitive private institutions as similarly qualified whites, lower-class Hispanic applicants eight times as likely, and lower-class blacks ten times as likely. These are enormous differences and reflect the fact that lower-class whites were rarely accepted to the private institutions Espenshade and Radford surveyed. Their diversity-enhancement value was obviously rated very low.”<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45042176647511306042012-11-30T17:52:26.953-08:002012-11-30T17:52:26.953-08:00 All he has are scores from the PSAT, a test that&... <i>All he has are scores from the PSAT, a test that's virtually meaningless, and not used by a single school in making admission decisions. That's pretty thin evidence for such a grand conclusion.</i><br /><br /> My knowledge on this is pretty limited, but when I took the PSAT 30 years ago, the rule of thumb eas that on average one would score about 100 points higher on the SAT, a year later. I went from 1240 to 1340.<br /> If this correlation was true back then and still holds true today, the PSAT scores would be meaningful.TontoBubbaGoldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15084529465502345934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59199859982463751732012-11-30T08:14:44.017-08:002012-11-30T08:14:44.017-08:00I read the article, spent about 3 hours to do it.
...I read the article, spent about 3 hours to do it.<br />I think it is an important article.<br />I wonder what other people will think now about my kids, who were admitted to and graduated from MIT (EECS) and Cornell (Dept of Chemistry and Chem. Biology) and then got their Ph.D.s from Stanford and UCSF respectively, at age 26 each.<br />Will they be now considered as admitted by “quasi-affirmative” quota now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71438155282767489882012-11-29T22:53:04.040-08:002012-11-29T22:53:04.040-08:00The TAC redesign looks good--not many sites improv...The TAC redesign looks good--not many sites improve their layout (w/ most making it worse), this is actually easier to use than, say, TNR or Wired. Their social networking icon I thought was Jefferson but (I see) is actually Edmund Burke. But isn't the magazine dominated by aspirational Red Tories who'd naturally look askance at Burke? More appropriate pic would be maybe Lindbergh or Sinclair Lewis, for preferenceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9458539891755246752012-11-29T22:31:49.370-08:002012-11-29T22:31:49.370-08:00I think a learned the solution to Unz's parado...I think a learned the solution to Unz's paradox of Jewish success in getting admitted to the best universities. <br /><br />http://h2oreuse.blogspot.co.il/2012/11/k-solves-unzs-paradox.htmlJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05676167615981895061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51550376132666554402012-11-29T16:16:46.100-08:002012-11-29T16:16:46.100-08:00Affirmative action for all - the Lake Woebegone so...Affirmative action for all - the Lake Woebegone solution, where ALL the children are above average.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7193740976527464502012-11-29T09:57:57.588-08:002012-11-29T09:57:57.588-08:00Either affirmative action for all or affirmative a...Either affirmative action for all or affirmative action for none -- those are the only two non-discriminative alternatives that pass the equal-protection clause.Luke Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11290760894780619646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49819305873656934982012-11-29T05:41:17.204-08:002012-11-29T05:41:17.204-08:00Yunno, an Egyptian archeology site discovered a fe...Yunno, an Egyptian archeology site discovered a few years ago provided a picture of the laborer community for the pyramids. Surprise! THEY WEREN'T SLAVES. They were skilled workers with status.<br /><br />How many here have actually read the Old Testament let alone the Talmud.History Is Bunknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39148045077303917522012-11-28T23:01:32.112-08:002012-11-28T23:01:32.112-08:00@Sunbeam
per my recollection hispanic sounding na...@Sunbeam<br /><br />per my recollection hispanic sounding names were about 5<br /><br />But many of them could be white hispanics, not mestizo hispanics<br /><br />Per my understanding, blacks and hispanics have a separate cut off<br /><br />The National Merit list cut off score is about 220<br /><br />The National Achievement list meant for blacks and hispanics has a lower cut off of about 180<br /><br />NAMs were given a separate lower cut offrec1manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08283145675242793064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-77823768203624166902012-11-28T22:20:49.254-08:002012-11-28T22:20:49.254-08:00One of Unz's considerations that I question is...One of Unz's considerations that I question is his comparison of the percentage of Jewish enrollment at Caltech and the elite UC campuses versus the Ivy League. If a disproportionate number of the top Jewish candidates are being admitted to the Ivy League schools, then it would seem logical that their numbers are down at the Caltech, etc. If Harvard has only 1,600 undergraduates and about 25% are Jewish, that's 400 Jewish kids. If that were reduced by 50% there would be 200 highly qualified Jewish kids accepting spots at schools like UCLA. <br /><br />I don't think this really changes the analysis much but it makes me think that aspect of Unz's methodology seems to double count Jewish over representation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-54386534844617230102012-11-28T22:07:10.140-08:002012-11-28T22:07:10.140-08:00I don't see how Unz's idea of limiting pur...I don't see how Unz's idea of limiting purely meritocratic admission to 20% will relieve competitive pressure. It will increase it instead.<br /><br /> Asian Tiger Moms will see no reason to slack off on the li'l changs when they know that being in the top 20% "guarantees" admission at the elite colleges. All that will change is they will see no need to force their children to play a musical instrument or other extracurricular just to make the resume look "we'll-rounded".<br /><br />End result: the top 20% in all the elite colleges will be majority Asian, as Caltech is now.Anonymoustachenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67453129589033130642012-11-28T21:18:17.288-08:002012-11-28T21:18:17.288-08:00The main takeaway from Unz's article is this:
...The main takeaway from Unz's article is this:<br /><br />The Ivy League Colleges used to practice heavy affirmative action favoring WASPs. Now they are practicing even heavier affirmative action favoring Jews. Anonymoustachenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61370918935521264272012-11-28T21:09:33.531-08:002012-11-28T21:09:33.531-08:00"I also wonder how prominent Jewish organizat..."I also wonder how prominent Jewish organizations might receive this result. The obvious implication, that, based on merit alone, many, many fewer Jews should get into the Ivy League is obviously going to be anathema to them.<br /><br />But what will be the counterargument? It's hard to imagine."<br /><br />Um, that its pure speculation. Unz has no idea what the average Jewish student sat score compared to other admitted students at top schools. Nor does he know the percentage of high scoring applicants that are Jewish. All he has are scores from the PSAT, a test that's virtually meaningless, and not used by a single school in making admission decisions. That's pretty thin evidence for such a grand conclusion. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48722450162823857142012-11-28T20:10:29.557-08:002012-11-28T20:10:29.557-08:00rec1man said:
"In my analysis of 2011, Calif...rec1man said:<br /><br />"In my analysis of 2011, California National Merit,<br /><br />There are about 2000 National Merit slots for California of which,<br />East Asians = 975<br />South Asians = 200<br />Jews = 125<br />Non-Jewish Whites = 700<br /><br />Gentile whites outnumber jews by 5.5 to 1, in the California National Merit for 2011"<br /><br />Any info on hispanics?sunbeamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540822135478202229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39791301325690784102012-11-28T19:54:54.297-08:002012-11-28T19:54:54.297-08:00Jeez, that took me a while to read....however, its...Jeez, that took me a while to read....however, its a game-changer, transformative, monumental and shocking. In addition, it was nice to see Steve referenced like one would reference another academic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47585412652691662842012-11-28T18:11:32.594-08:002012-11-28T18:11:32.594-08:00In my analysis of 2011, California National Merit,...In my analysis of 2011, California National Merit,<br /><br />There are about 2000 National Merit slots for California of which,<br />East Asians = 975<br />South Asians = 200<br />Jews = 125<br />Non-Jewish Whites = 700<br /><br />Gentile whites outnumber jews by 5.5 to 1, in the California National Merit for 2011rec1manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08283145675242793064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41975838445496098852012-11-28T17:28:12.331-08:002012-11-28T17:28:12.331-08:00"Universities always emphasize the importance..."Universities always emphasize the importance of non-academic (and subjective) “leadership traits” "<br /><br />unless the organization you are the leader of is the Future Farmers of America or the Crusade for Christ or the Conservative Club. Then such leadership becomes important in a different way - it gets you put on the reject pile even faster. <br /><br />"Holistic" admissions from day one was B.S. - it started (as detailed in Karabel's book) as a method for WASPs to keep out Jews while maintaining "deniability". It is was born in sin and in sin it shall remain because everything goes on behind closed doors, like in a brothel. It is Karmic payback that the Jews have apparently captured the system and turned it back on its originators. <br /><br />The only way out of this unholy mess is to discard the "holistic" black box where all sorts of evil can be concealed entirely and go back to a meritocratic, test based admission system - this is the system that prevails in most countries. You put the admission test scores in rank order and work your way down the list - it's all out in the open. Of course there are far to many vested interests for this to happen. And a side effect would be universities that are largely Asian - now WHO wants that (other than Asians and who cares what they want).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81550636614942525232012-11-28T17:08:32.616-08:002012-11-28T17:08:32.616-08:00People will ignore this because of the imprecise m...People will ignore this because of the imprecise methodology involved in picking out Jewish last names from that list of academic achievers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51684954304669428412012-11-28T17:04:56.070-08:002012-11-28T17:04:56.070-08:00"Universities always emphasize the importance..."Universities always emphasize the importance of non-academic (and subjective) “leadership traits” as a central reason why they do not rely upon grades and academic test scores to select at least their white students, arguing that evidence of such personal initiative and leadership should often outweigh somewhat lower academic performance in predicting future success and value to our society."<br /><br />They favor alphas?<br />Betaphobia must end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21951617439575823232012-11-28T16:45:08.932-08:002012-11-28T16:45:08.932-08:00candid_observer sed:
Obviously, the most important...<i>candid_observer sed:<br />Obviously, the most important issue is the collapse in Jewish academic achievement. ...<br />Likewise, the relative underachievement of Jews at Harvard, given the numbers, can hardly be disputed.<br /><br />I just do wonder how the elite academic world is going to receive this frankly astonishing result.<br /><br /></i><br><br />If you read history carefully it is not astonishing. Many Scotch-Irish achievements went on the backs of gentiles who were either humble or bad at marketing themselves. The best example is Einstein who had David Hilbert do most of the dificult math for him. Do you ever see Hilbert on any modern posters?nanunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74422518028517424192012-11-28T16:31:38.292-08:002012-11-28T16:31:38.292-08:00The quote referenced 100% Jewish roots; Lenny Krav...<i>The quote referenced 100% Jewish roots; Lenny Kravitz is, shall we say, somewhat less than 100% Jewish in terms of ancestry.</i><br /><br />All Jews are less that 100% in terms of ancestry...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41884607168859223062012-11-28T16:18:57.624-08:002012-11-28T16:18:57.624-08:00How about the overwhelming number of presidents of...How about the overwhelming number of presidents of Ivy and equivalent schools who are Jewish? Yale just replaced one with another. Anyone taking bets on what happens at Princeton to replace the retiring president? I don't think a Bowen (lefty gentile) would get the nod these days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6853400213614004722012-11-28T16:09:09.874-08:002012-11-28T16:09:09.874-08:00MC:"Today the possession of a Jewish surname ...MC:"Today the possession of a Jewish surname is less predictive of 100% Jewish roots (eg Lenny Kravitz)."<br /><br />Uh, Lenny Kravitz does have Jewish roots:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Kravitz#Early_life"<br /><br />The quote referenced 100% Jewish roots; Lenny Kravitz is, shall we say, somewhat less than 100% Jewish in terms of ancestry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com