tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post212109431382571447..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Putin's lawyerly furtiveness is a good thingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48754489601138080332014-03-17T19:58:01.561-07:002014-03-17T19:58:01.561-07:00"Finland did look West."
No, Britain th..."Finland did look West."<br /><br />No, Britain thought Finland would become a German ally and tried to sabotage Finland at every turn. During the Russian Civil War, Finnish troops fought a mini war against the British expedition who tried to block Finnish independence and hand Finland back to Russia.<br /><br />You're so ignorant of history that it's pointless to talk to you. It's as if some Russian guy wrote about World War I and claimed that obviously Britain and Germany were close Western allies plotting together against Russia.<br /><br />If you wanted to write some propaganda about Russia needing to attack Finland to prevent it from allying with a foreign power, that power for Finland would have been Germany (a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one...), not Britain which was at every turn hostile to Finland for exactly the same reason - they thought Finland would become a German ally.<br /><br />Even the neutrality agreement that began Finlandization stated that Finland was banned from ever allying with Germany - not "the West" or "Britain", Germany. The Russians were never worried about Britain, they were scared of Germany.<br /><br />There was no friendship whatsoever between Britain and Finland. The liberal elite became big believers in the League of Nations when they solved a border dispute with Sweden and they won over the pro-German faction as the West kept assuring them that the League would be backed with military force. When the Western liberal project turned out to be toothless against any country that isn't Sweden, the liberals were instantly discredited and the pro-Germans were put in charge.jaakkelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07479648936016425724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36370032439982744082014-03-17T15:13:47.719-07:002014-03-17T15:13:47.719-07:00America is to blame for all of this. It caused Kos...America is to blame for all of this. It caused Kosovo to secede from Serbia. It opened Pandora's box.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52547760421008355792014-03-17T08:11:40.835-07:002014-03-17T08:11:40.835-07:00Finland did look West. It could not have avoided c...Finland did look West. It could not have avoided coming under pressure from the USSR. The british and french were going to help Finland next but their army was kicked out of Norway. Finland compromised because it thought Russia would get nasty otherwise.<br /><br />I'm sure Finland like the rest of Europe has been totaly 'Finlandised' by the US. Finland was not given a key region in the fifties though. Russia might have reacted quite differently if that was the case. <br /><br />Ukraine has been very foolish to think Russia would stand for a Western orientated Ukraine, or that Russia would back down in its own back yard.<br /><br />The west got Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons because it thought Ukraine might need to use them to stop the Russians. The US knows it could get drawn into a nuclear war between Russia and Ukraine, so they disarmed them, and Ukraine got a piece of paper with empty promises from the US and its client states. Foreign policy is not moral.<br /><br />As for the thirties. The moderate progressive establishment figures like (admirer of Gandhi ) Philip Kerr, 11th Marquess of Lothian were not too worried because with Austria Hitler seemed to be gathering in Germans into a German state. Hence Lothian's remark that Hitler was Just marching into his own back yard could be used in the article.<br />Munich: On 15 Sept Chamberlain agreed to Germany anexing those provinces that voted for it in a plebicite in the Sudetenland, which given that in was basically German meant he accepted Germany was going to get it in a few months time. Then on 22 Sept Hitler demanded immediate German occupation of the Sudetenland without a plebicite. Chamberlain had already conceded that Germany was going to get the Sudetenland in half a year. So at Munich Chamberlain's big concession was on on the TIMING. The timing of when Germany got Sudetenland. Which Chamberlain had had already, in effect agreed to when he agreed to the plebicite. I think that shows that Chamberlain was angry Germany was issuing dictats, but what they were demanding was considered German, and then getting it not unacceptable, if done through negotioation. Chamberlain was very much a political moderate. Yes Conservatives who wanted to confront Germany in the 30's on were on the far right of the party and the same ones who wanted to keep India irrespective of the what Indians thought, like George Lloyd, 1st Baron Lloyd. Churchill too On 15 March, Germany invaded the Czech provinces of Bohemia and Moravia, including Prague" That was a key shift, (because those territories were not in any sense ethnically or historically German unlike previous ones Hitler had acquired) and Chamberlain immediately started making veiled threats of war, . It was a watershed.<br /><br />Similarly there was a huge shift in attitude when the Nazi Soviet pact was announced. "Only after the German soviet nonagression pact of August 21 did Halifax implement the unilateral guarantee to Poland with aa formal mutual assistance Pact" Source: The Anglo American Establishment by Carroll Quigley page 300. As Carrol Quigley says, Chamberlain had no problem with Germany going to war--with the USSR. In fact he and Halifax tried to facilitate it.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42702675788019173132014-03-17T07:25:14.595-07:002014-03-17T07:25:14.595-07:00> It was Krushchev who was a Ukrainian but it s...> It was Krushchev who was a Ukrainian but it simply seemed sensible to make it part of the adjoining Ukraine rather the far way Russia.<br /><br />The strait between it and faraway Russia is three miles wide.RSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57939301388405102602014-03-17T03:44:39.368-07:002014-03-17T03:44:39.368-07:00"Interesting. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, Am..."Interesting. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, American political scientists expected the Soviet Union to go on for generations."<br /><br />Oh, our *political scientists* were useless. Any form of "anti-Sovietism" would immediately ruin an academic career.<br /><br />It's the right wing that could have upset the situation as if a right-wing government had attempted to break away from the neutrality/Finlandization consensus and get closer to the West, the Russians might have done the Prague thing.<br /><br />But precisely those parts of the right that would have been eager to contest communism were also convinced that the Soviet Union was declining. As I said, even the right wing worked to build connections in Russia so that the communists would not have had a monopolized channel to feed the Russians ideas about "fascism" in Finland.<br /><br />My grandfather was in the parliament from the 1950s to the 1970s for the main right-wing party and I've heard more than a few stories about this stuff. I doubt in any other country the military wing of the right wing party did banya diplomacy in the Soviet Union, drinking all that truth serum together...<br /><br />Finlandization left the right *very* unhappy as any significant post was off limits to the right wing, the leftist witch hunts ruined careers just by accusing someone of "anti-Sovietism" etc. This would not have been tolerable if the right-wing would not have had its reasons to expect communism to die. They most certainly discussed risky alternative plans.<br /><br />Brzezenski clearly has very little idea how Finlandization happened and just why it didn't end with *what just happened in Ukraine* ie a right wing uprising against the accommodating regime.jaakkelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07479648936016425724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30915681604477577302014-03-16T21:46:20.184-07:002014-03-16T21:46:20.184-07:00Mongolia exists as independent nation thanks to Ru...Mongolia exists as independent nation thanks to Russia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80655434110826223742014-03-16T20:47:55.572-07:002014-03-16T20:47:55.572-07:00When has Russia ever helped another nation defend ...<i>When has Russia ever helped another nation defend itself?</i><br /><br />This might be a trick question, there's a case that can be made that Russia was instrumental in keeping the British and French from recognizing the Confederacy during the US Civil War. Russia thus might haved saved the Union:<br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Russian_Navy#19th_century" rel="nofollow">"In 1863, during the American Civil War, the Russian Navy's Atlantic and Pacific Fleets wintered in the American ports of New York and San Francisco respectively. Some historians credit this visit as a major factor in deterring France and England from entering the war on the Confederate side.</a>"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19561780396031091592014-03-16T20:37:40.548-07:002014-03-16T20:37:40.548-07:00First of all, the non-socialists could tolerate Fi...<i>First of all, the non-socialists could tolerate Finlandization as they didn't expect communism to be permanent - we'd just try to delay as much as we could and hope that communism dies before we get the Prague treatment.</i><br /><br />Interesting. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, American political scientists expected the Soviet Union to go on for generations. A lot of them thought Eastern Europe would eventually stop rebelling and turn into another set of SSRs.<br /><br />Good to know the Finns knew better. Churchill did too. I believe he told a young aide in the early 1950s that if he (the aide) lived a normal lifespan he could expect to see the end of Communism.<br /><br />CennbeorcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75605787084387831522014-03-16T20:25:52.596-07:002014-03-16T20:25:52.596-07:00Yes, the NATO idea was a provocation. Nobody here ...<i>Yes, the NATO idea was a provocation. Nobody here was terribly excited about it. Nobody could answer the fundamental question of how it would benefit Ukraine. It was sponsored by ineffectual politicians such as Yushenko, and it died.</i><br /><br />A provocation, to put it mildly! Imagine if you saw Nato as your enemy (at least potentially) and your Black Sea fleet as an indispensable strategic resource. Then imagine the fleet's home base being a enclave in Nato territory. <br /><br />For Ukrainians to have considered the option, even briefly, suggests a diminished sensitivity to Realpolitik. <br /><br />Now, you say the idea rightly died. But: after an unconstitutional revolution (or coup, the words mean the same) to install a pro-Western government, how was Putin to know - how is anyone to know - that it wouldn't come back to life?<br /><br /><br /><i>The rebellion against Yanukovych was similar to the uprisings against King George III and Louis XVI. A leader so incompetent and rapacious that he weakened himself to the point he was vulnerable.</i><br /><br />I don't doubt that, but wasn't some feeling that you could wait a year and vote him out at the next election?<br /><br />CennbeorcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5541761863475856862014-03-16T20:24:15.609-07:002014-03-16T20:24:15.609-07:00America is Weimar Germany with Aircraft Carriers. ...America is Weimar Germany with Aircraft Carriers. <br /><br />Worse still, it will not have fanatical white farmboys prepared to defend it to the last man in World War G. For that you have the LGBT Main Battle Tank and the Big Pink Stiff One. The Ghost of General George Pattonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-63943058789545771682014-03-16T18:52:45.521-07:002014-03-16T18:52:45.521-07:00"When has Russia ever helped another nation d..."When has Russia ever helped another nation defend itself?"<br /><br />Well, there was that one time when it went to war to help Serbia... <br /><br />jaakkelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07479648936016425724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21609815148128961882014-03-16T18:50:03.839-07:002014-03-16T18:50:03.839-07:00"Britain did far more that could reasonably b..."Britain did far more that could reasonably be expected, especially as Britain was under no treaty obligation."<br /><br />Right, so you went from "Finland poking the Russian bear by allying with Britain and France" to no alliance and a *plan* that some politicians *discussed* *after* Russia attacked? (Finland doubtlessly would have allied with Britain if Britain had been willing: it had an elite full of anglophile classical liberals. That's why Finland hadn't invested in military...)<br /><br />We're having an exact repeat of the 1930s - not the Nazism part but the useless liberalism part. The Western powers are busy building institutions like the EU and the League of Nations that are very good at disarming small European countries that actually follow treaties and completely useless against anything more powerful than Iraq. This isn't the first time everyone thought history ended with liberalism. Not even the second time. We'll never learn.<br /><br />We even joined that land mine ban championed by Britain. BRITAIN. That is like Mongolia championing naval disarmament. When we act like this it's no mystery why we've ended up a small nation... if anything, Ukrainians should look at us as an example of what listening to the liberals does to you.<br /><br />jaakkelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07479648936016425724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81444152685938484292014-03-16T17:28:36.365-07:002014-03-16T17:28:36.365-07:00When has Russia ever helped another nation defend ...When has Russia ever helped another nation defend itself?<br />--<br /><br />1971 Bangladesh liberation war<br /><br />Vietnam war vs China in 1978<br /><br />both times, weapons and satellite imagery<br /><br />In 1971, Soviet Submarines pinged and followed USS Enterprise when it entered the bay of Bengalrec1manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08283145675242793064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16631561750797506342014-03-16T14:48:57.689-07:002014-03-16T14:48:57.689-07:00Anonydroid at 2:11 PM said: I wish paleocons coul...Anonydroid at 2:11 PM said: I wish paleocons could segregate their self hatred from the views of the US. It's not this country's fault that you are single lonely and crotehcy.<br /><br />Hunsdon said: It's not this country's fault that you're functionally illiterate, either, but it makes me sad all the same.Hunsdonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30534991148764416402014-03-16T14:47:11.585-07:002014-03-16T14:47:11.585-07:00"Isn't it time to start negotiating about..."Isn't it time to start negotiating about money?"<br /><br />Putin's holding all the cards.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37222180230192210392014-03-16T14:11:10.681-07:002014-03-16T14:11:10.681-07:00This is such crap to the extent thar anyone has be...This is such crap to the extent thar anyone has been a reliable ally it is the United States. When has Russia ever helped another nation defend itself? One time it did and two years later the czar was dead and Comintern was trying to overthrow the whole western world. Typical Russian behavior is two swing it's dick around then get is assed stomped in its own backyard like in the Crimean war or to team up with a neighboring country and invade another country. I wish paleocons could segregate their self hatred from the views of the US. It's not this country's fault that you are single lonely and crotehcy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31819660029906306132014-03-16T13:38:31.227-07:002014-03-16T13:38:31.227-07:00@jaakkeli
Good posts.
.
jaakkeli asked: "W...@jaakkeli<br /><br />Good posts.<br /><br />.<br /><br />jaakkeli asked: "What is the point of allying with the West?"<br /><br />Hunsdon said:"Trust in your history, trust in your valor, trust in the weapons you have; trust not in the West, because they'll sell you out in a heartbeat."<br /><br />Quite.<br /><br />1) Maximize your human capital.<br />2) Have massive secret underground bunkers full of guns.<br /><br />.<br /><br />"We are the Weimar Republic with aircraft carriers"<br /><br />Awesome - i'm stealing that.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34269264548788672422014-03-16T12:42:29.198-07:002014-03-16T12:42:29.198-07:00Isn't it time to start negotiating about money...Isn't it time to start negotiating about money? How much is it worth to Putin to have the Crimea and not have sanctions against Russia? He was willing to give the Ukraine $15 billion before. $50 billion reparations, most to the Ukraine but some gas price reduction to all, might be doable. The west throws in written guarantees of no NATO, never for the Ukraine. Both countries help organize a voluntary people exchange, with Russians encouraged to move to the Crimea, to reduce the rightist vote in the rest of the Ukraine.. Mount Shasta Inquirerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04654969327044500899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83946388335160237462014-03-16T07:54:27.383-07:002014-03-16T07:54:27.383-07:00jaakkeli look
While Britain was at war with Germa...<a href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3l7UsHgFd1oC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=chamberlain+expeditionary+force+march+to+finland&source=bl&ots=YRLl0CTFr9&sig=7BJdB1iQMqGZfPUe4VOc0sEVmXI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R7QlU6izH-eH0AWd64CYBA&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=chamberlain%20expeditionary%20force%20march%20to%20finland&f=false" rel="nofollow">jaakkeli look</a><br /><br />While Britain was at war with Germany, Chamberlain agreed with the French a plan that after invading Norway the expeditionary force would go to aid Finland. against the USSR.<br /><br />Britain did far more that could reasonably be expected, especially as Britain was under no treaty obligation. <br /><br />Listen sunbeam, the motivation is that the EU is the political wing of NATO, which the Americans seem to think they lead. As Mearsheimer says states (like the US) take any opportunity to increase their power relative to rival powers. Ukraine created this situation by not keeping its nuclear weapons, like Mearsheimer proposed.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39674889462060518592014-03-16T07:41:54.337-07:002014-03-16T07:41:54.337-07:00"I did everything I could so that this war wo...<i>"I did everything I could so that this war would begin. I worked day and night."</i><br /><br />Um, so did the NYT which quoted him there. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58536290065458859282014-03-16T02:16:41.686-07:002014-03-16T02:16:41.686-07:00"Anonymous said...
The comparison between Au..."Anonymous said...<br /><br />The comparison between Austria and Finland just proves how much crappier Russia behaved than the us."<br /><br />That doesn't really matter to my point. My point was that Austria was neutral, though firmly in the west.<br /><br />And, anyway, now it is America that is crappier than Russia. What we offer to potential client states is Miley Cyrus, tattoos, gangsta-rap, neo-liberal economics, gay marriage, trans-sexualism, color revolutions, and demographic suicide. We are the Weimar Republic with aircraft carriers and a surfeit of insufferable arrogance. Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12359230076623379202014-03-15T21:28:05.267-07:002014-03-15T21:28:05.267-07:00Finland is not that strategic and has very little ...Finland is not that strategic and has very little to offer the world. Ukraine was fought over for centuries.<br /><br />Have you ever heard about Halford Mackinder? Most people onlu know the nazi Karl Haushofer. All of his 'ideas' came from Mackinder. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82761613182954429302014-03-15T21:24:29.843-07:002014-03-15T21:24:29.843-07:00Woodrow Wilson shoul have kicked back on1917.
Chi...Woodrow Wilson shoul have kicked back on1917.<br /><br />Chicken will come to roost this time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17294918617499531542014-03-15T21:21:35.762-07:002014-03-15T21:21:35.762-07:00Spontaneous? After america spent billions to rouse...Spontaneous? After america spent billions to rouse them up?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42102816638355300072014-03-15T21:01:14.794-07:002014-03-15T21:01:14.794-07:00jaakkeli asked: What is the point of allying with...jaakkeli asked: What is the point of allying with the West?<br /><br />Hunsdon said: The West is a mighty thin reed to rely on. Ask the Hungarians, ask the Czechs, ask the Montagnards, ask the South Vietnamese.<br /><br />Trust in your history, trust in your valor, trust in the weapons you have; trust not in the West, because they'll sell you out in a heartbeat.Hunsdonnoreply@blogger.com