tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post2657100501919527210..comments2024-03-15T20:52:26.967-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: End of WWII, AgainUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger191125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84704178250578514092011-08-29T20:30:57.637-07:002011-08-29T20:30:57.637-07:00It isn't either one or the other.
The Russian...It isn't either one or the other.<br /><br />The Russians did the bulk of destroying the manpower and armour of the German Wermacht. It's easily evident in observing the Order of Battle during the continuous campaigns in the East. <br /><br />However, without involvement by Western Allies, the situation may have been fatal for Stalin.<br /><br />The units that were deployed to the West , to counter African, Italian and French invasion, siphoned off the cream of the German Army. <br /><br />Rommels Afrika Corp.. in the end ground down to dust or surrendered en masse. Italy : SS Panzer, Fallschirmjager ( elite parachute infantry ) , Panzer Grenadier , Mountain divisions and specialty units like the Panzer Lehr and Herman Goering divsions.<br /><br />One has to realize that every time a unit , especially Elite unit, suffered high attrition -- the replacements of equal calibre became increasingly hard to acquire . Eventually the close to 40 SS divisions created, stripped the Wermacht of top line commanders ( equiv. sargeant, lieutenant etc ). By the end of 1944 the Elite units were just shadows of themselves despite this.<br /><br />Now, consider if the West basically stayed out, and these units were available to Hitler for deployment to the East. Considering how many times the Elite formations pulled Wermacht ass out of the fire, by offensive bold strokes or defensively brilliant actions; it's entirely plausible that Hitler could have prevailed. ( leaving aside his idiotic Strategic command ability -- for example.. getting sucked into a Grudge match at Stalingrad over ego , when a typical enveloping action could have taken it all quicker and with very little loss compared to city fighting )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74132143539490064602011-08-25T12:59:43.748-07:002011-08-25T12:59:43.748-07:00"I've heard that racism was one major rea...<i>"I've heard that racism was one major reason why the A-bomb was dropped on Japan, that it would've impossible for the bomb to have been dropped on a white country like Germany, had Germany been in Japan's position."</i><br /><br />The idea that race difference elicited more intense and hostile attitudes towards the Japanese than towards the Germans isn't unreasonable. It's what you'd predict from sociobiology and there's empirical support for it:<br /><br />http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/08/american-white-awareness-during-world-war-ii/#more-10095Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87570007662308067062011-08-24T02:25:33.269-07:002011-08-24T02:25:33.269-07:00Italians lost to Ethiopians armed with camels. It`...Italians lost to Ethiopians armed with camels. It`s weird how it seems that across the pond the French are the poor soldiers. In fact the operation Barbadossa was delayed because Hitler have to save Mussolini`s ass in Greece. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War" rel="nofollow">Greco-Italian war.</a><br />What contributed to the Germany`s loss was also that their troops were everywhere occupying various countries and that it was very difficult to supply the troops so far in Russia. Some say that the reason why Stalin didn`t try to continue his attack to Paris and beyond was that the Red Army`s supply was already as far streched that it could be in Berlin.<br />It was widely believed that after Normandy the Nazi Germany would be done in almost instantly, but it took still another year. There were even some bad moments during the Battle of Bulge.<br />The reason for Germany`s poor production (of planes in particular) is often attributed to Goering who Hitler didn`t wan`t to sack off no matter what. Finally after Speer took over those production numbers started to skyrocket even when there was a very heavy bombing going on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16733928655970982342011-08-23T23:15:33.578-07:002011-08-23T23:15:33.578-07:00"Isn't there some rule that stupid people..."Isn't there some rule that stupid people can't post on the internet?<br />No? Well, there should be."<br /><br />That is called political correctness when manifested on the left and denial of reality when manifested on the right. <br /><br />And as with Starkey, when people can't face the stark truth, they just call it 'shupid'. <br /><br />But look at the social and cultural reality today regarding race relations, and it cannot be denied. Blacks FEEEEEEEL the rage and power, and whites are so afraid and traumatized of blacks that they resort to calling them 'youths'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-85441427928414565882011-08-23T21:51:15.464-07:002011-08-23T21:51:15.464-07:00And of course, later, the conquest of Palestine by...<i>And of course, later, the conquest of Palestine by Jews.</i> --anonymous<br /><br />Yeah, those Semites sure know their stuff when it comes to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arabic_speaking_world.svg" rel="nofollow">conquest</a>.Reg Cæsarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-772771036254683702011-08-23T18:49:31.198-07:002011-08-23T18:49:31.198-07:00It's also like Jack Johnson thing. White peopl...<i>It's also like Jack Johnson thing. White people simply couldn't believe that the black man was the heavyweight champion of the world. So, they looked for the great white hope. But when Johnson mauled Jim Jeffries and totally humiliated and reduced him to a pile of sorryassness, whites people then knew Johnson was the champ, and the white man had been forever defeated by the negro who was now the alpha male badass. When a people get beat REAL BAD, they really lose heart. And Jack Johnson did to white male pride what B-29s did to Japanese national pride.</i> <br /><br /><br /><br />Isn't there some rule that stupid people can't post on the internet?<br /><br />No?<br /><br />Well, there should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13695061992147580842011-08-23T18:36:05.432-07:002011-08-23T18:36:05.432-07:00those industrial productions figures, it turns out...<i>those industrial productions figures, it turns out, were vastly exaggerated by Speer</i> <br /><br /><br />The loonies are coming out of the woodwork now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89507865912151577362011-08-23T17:44:44.740-07:002011-08-23T17:44:44.740-07:00Actually, you can make a strong case that Germany&...Actually, you can make a strong case that Germany's invasion of Russia was a very near thing. If they'd zigged instead of zagged, they could very well have taken Moscow. And this isn't just hindsight; Hitler's generals were begging to zig.<br /><br />The Russians coming out on top doesn't strike me as inevitable. If the Germans had taken Moscow, Russia could very well have collapsed. All the rail lines led to Moscow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81499580175795901662011-08-23T15:57:58.807-07:002011-08-23T15:57:58.807-07:00"Why a German would act embarrassed over Germ..."Why a German would act embarrassed over Germany losing a war vs. Great Britain, Russia, and America combined is anybody's guess."<br /><br />You can't be this stupid!<br /><br />1. German shame in WWII is moral than military-related. Germans are not ashamed for having lost; they are ashamed for the reasons they fought: to enslave and exterminate 'subhumans'. <br />There is no shame in losing to bigger/larger forces. But there is shame in moral degradation. <br /><br />2. Though German military was the best pound-for-pound, war isn't only about fighting spirit and military might but about decision-making. Hitler militarily did most things right until June 1941 when he attacked Russia, and then he made one fatal mistake after another. And then, Germany didn't just loser but was raped/mauled toward defeat. There is no shame in a big strong guy getting beat up by 20 smaller guys; the strong guy was simply overwhelmed. But if the big strong guy DECIDED to take on 20 guys, there is shame in his stupidity. Hitler's decision to invade USSR--and then declare war on US when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor--was stupid. And the fact that Germans worshiped that lunatic as a god and invested their entire future in his hands is shameful too. <br /><br />3. German hubris paved the way toward massive psychological trauma. WWII wasn't an ordinary war between nations. Germans had pumped themselves with hyper-pride in being the best, invincible, unbeatable(it was said WWI would have been won too if not for the 'stab in the back'), and etc. Though Germans were the best soldiers, they were not gods. But Hitler and Germans made themselves believe as though they were gods. So, it was humiliating to be brought back down to ground, especially by men deemed to be 'subhuman'. Worse, Russian 'subhumans' raped superior 'Aryan' women in huge numbers,and the so-called 'Aryan' supermen could do nothing but stand around and watch(and pee in their pants like scaredy cats). <br />Because of their vastly inflated self-image, defeat in WWII was a huge psychologial blow to Germans. They were bound to feel shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78351457794544915312011-08-23T12:56:45.558-07:002011-08-23T12:56:45.558-07:00I also think your assessment of the loss of an Ita...<i>I also think your assessment of the loss of an Italina "Shock army" massively overestimates the military contribution of the Italians, whose record was not of success.</i><br /><br />Craig...<br /><br />You missed the point entirely. <br /><br />Their 'contribution' to the war in the East was to lay down their arms -- with no notice to the Germans -- one fine Summer day -- leaving a staggering door 80 miles wide in the center-South Ukraine.<br /><br />Next, with no ammo expenditure -- nor lost vehicles or tanks -- the Soviets drive straight on to Keiv. Imagine: the biggest advance of the war without firing a shot.<br /><br />The German units nearest the surrender zone were enveloped en masse by Soviet spearheads.<br /><br />It was Stalingrad redux for the Germans -- for the Soviets is was a gift from the West.<br /><br />The lack of fighting denied Stalin any heroic imagery. Indeed, it's embarrassing to let the world know that the West destroyed the German position in the East via this mechanism.<br /><br />Hitler had to replace the Italians -- that's one army.<br /><br />He had to replace the lost Germans -- that's army number two.<br /><br />He had to shunt a Panzer Army into Italy to greet the Anglo-Americans -- that's army number three.<br /><br />So the Italian surrender was TWICE as bleeding as the fiasco at Stalingrad.<br /><br />Deal with it.<br /><br />BTW, this reality makes everyone uncomfortable -- which is why it is not a video on the History Channel. <br /><br />(It embarrasses the USSR. It is not helpful to the NATO alliance. It became a tabooed reality.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75644440949939749272011-08-23T12:33:36.073-07:002011-08-23T12:33:36.073-07:00"Why a German would act embarrassed over Germ..."Why a German would act embarrassed over Germany losing a war vs. Great Britain, Russia, and America combined is anybody's guess."<br /><br /> Exactly. The Germans lost to sheer numbers ONLY. The Wehrmacht would have kicked the ass of the U.S army, the Red Army and the RAF single-handedly, but it could not possibly win against the combined push of the Red Army from the East, the constant bombings of the RAF over it's Ruhr industry, and the U.S pushing from the West. Too much for a country the size of Texas with barely 20% of the population of it's combined enemies to handle. And the Russians, Americans and British should be ASHAMED that it took them six years to break that little country. Epic incompetence. Oh, and the U.S needs to be on trial for war crimes for what it did to Dresden. A complete slaughter of a civilian polulation, half of which were children under the age of ten, for NO reason whatsoever except to show strength.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22743956201744789072011-08-23T12:12:00.413-07:002011-08-23T12:12:00.413-07:00"The media is playing this up to give more cr..."The media is playing this up to give more credit to the communists for "winning" WW2 (a pyrrhic victory if there ever was one). The Europeans have already rewritten history to make the USSR responsible for beating Germany. Of course the USSR would not have survived without Lend Lease and the Western Front, and was the worst of all the parties involved in the war in terms of total body count, and in "victory" imposed a communist regime over Eastern Europe."<br /><br /> Holy shit, how callous are you? The Soviets DID beat Hitler, and not the U.S. The evidence? Over 30 MILLION Russians died in WWII compared to only 300,000 Americans, and 85% of the total casualties in WWII were German and Russian. Not only that, but ALL the biggest battles of WWII were between the Germans and Soviets. FACTS. Get over it. Stop believing the Hollywwod bullshit. Even if the U.S had never entered Europe in WWII, Germany would have been beaten anyeway. When the U.S entered in July, 1945, Germany was already on it's knees and would have lost even if the U.S had never entered the war.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88334251992744385592011-08-23T09:00:18.722-07:002011-08-23T09:00:18.722-07:00"Far from being the revival of some medieval ..."Far from being the revival of some medieval dream of conquest sparked by the example of the Teutonic Knights, Hitler’s drive to conquer Eastern Europe was based on a very modern model, a model of colonization, enslavement, and extermination that had its parallels in the creation of European empires in Africa and Australia, or the nineteenth-century Russian conquest of Central Asia and Siberia." <br /><br />And of course, later, the conquest of Palestine by Jews.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9231615452800481772011-08-23T08:58:16.974-07:002011-08-23T08:58:16.974-07:00"The bombing survey that was done of WW2 show..."The bombing survey that was done of WW2 showed that German morale wasn't hurt by the bombing but was stiffened, and that German industrial production actually went up rather than down in the context of the bombing."<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2007/dec/20/immoral-rearmament/" rel="nofollow">Initially yes, but after series of bombings, Germans had enough of it, especially in cities that got bombed. I can't imagine people in Hamburg and Dresden just loving the war after they'd been bombed out--and it dawn on them that Allies had gained air supremacy over their country. Also, those industrial production figures, it turns out, were vastly exaggerated by Speer. WAGES OF DESTRUCTION spells it out pretty much.</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-27000230829452933262011-08-23T02:52:00.286-07:002011-08-23T02:52:00.286-07:00Anonymous' "On a war product basis HALF o...Anonymous' "On a war product basis HALF of Germany's output was for the Luftwaffe. (!) Their massive army only received 45% -- their navy 5%" would certainly be strong evidence that the contributions were balanced if proven. However since, after 1940 the German's never came close to being able to match Allied air power it seems counterintuitive. Perhaps you could provide evidence.<br /><br />I also think your assessment of the loss of an Italina "Shock army" massively overestimates the military contribution of the Italians, whose record was not of success.<br />---------------<br />As regards the 88<br /><br />"The greatest single tank destroyer is the German 88 MM anti-aircraft gun. For example, on May 27th at 8:00 AM., Axis forces having enveloped Bir Hacheim, a German tank force of sixty tanks attacked the British 22nd Brigade some distance to the northeast. The British moved to attack this force with 50 light and medium American tanks. It soon became apparent that this British force was inadequate and the Brigadier commanding ordered a second regiment of 50 tanks into action. In ten minutes the 88 MM German AA guns destroyed 8 American medium tanks of this reinforcing regiment. All day thereafter the British engaged the enemy half-heartedly and finally withdrew. Sixteen American medium tanks were lost in all. These sixteen fell victims without a single exception to the 88 MM AA gun." <br /><br />http://www.lonesentry.com/tacticalstudy/index.htmlneil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24549371492068746792011-08-23T01:21:51.348-07:002011-08-23T01:21:51.348-07:00We didn't bomb North Vietnam the way we bombed...<i>We didn't bomb North Vietnam the way we bombed Germany. Our air strikes in North Vietnam were mostly limited to military targets. We also avoided some obvious targets (their dam system) that could have caused massive civilian casualties.</i><br /><br />The bombing survey that was done of WW2 showed that German morale wasn't hurt by the bombing but was stiffened, and that German industrial production actually went up rather than down in the context of the bombing. It suggested that bombing wasn't that effective at stopping supply lines. It showed that bombing was just good for destroying cities. The experience of the heavy bombing leveled against North Korea that ultimately wasn't that effective suggests similar conclusions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30121319400210783912011-08-23T00:26:57.274-07:002011-08-23T00:26:57.274-07:00We didn't bomb North Vietnam the way we bombed...<i>We didn't bomb North Vietnam the way we bombed Germany. Our air strikes in North Vietnam were mostly limited to military targets. We also avoided some obvious targets (their dam system) that could have caused massive civilian casualties.</i><br /><br />Nor like the way we bombed Korea during the "forgotten war". <br /><br />The Korean War involved about 3 years of heavy indiscriminate bombing. Basically everything became a military target including civilians and infrastructure such as large irrigation dams that provided water for 75% of North Korea's food production were bombed.<br /><br />LeMay himself admitted the bombing killed around 20% of the population and said that they had "burned down every town in North Korea" (http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1995/06/19/1995_06_19_047_TNY_CARDS_000370012). Estimates of civilian deaths range from 2 to 5 million. North Korea's population was around 10 million at the start of the Korean War.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69338662168502542372011-08-22T23:56:33.212-07:002011-08-22T23:56:33.212-07:00Germany and Japan--military and civilians--both go...<i>Germany and Japan--military and civilians--both got beat so bad that they knew who the new boss was.</i> <br /><br /><br />That's a really, <i>really</i> goofy way to look at a war. We didn't beat the British - both military and civilians - so bad that they knew who the new boss was in 1776 or 1812. How come? <br /><br />We didn't beat the Spanish - both military and civilians - so bad that they knew who the new boss was in 1898. What's up with that? US leadership were not properly briefed on the anonymous internet commenters rules of war?<br /><br />The North Koreans did not beat America - both military and civilians - so bad that they knew who the new boss was in 1975. It's really inexplicable, isn't it?<br /><br />The thing is that though you are trying to apply street fight rules to international conflict, you don't even know the rules of street fighting. I've been in more than my share of fights, and the object is virtually never to "beat the other guy so bad that they know who the new boss is".<br /><br />Back when the typical American male actually got in fist-fights from time to time, there was a more intelligent assessment of violence, its purpose, and its limitations. These days we have to listen to keyboard warriors who'd break down and cry if somebody punched them in the nose doing their impression of Genghis Khan and lusting for the lamentation of the women and the massacre of the innocents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31904010562970128032011-08-22T23:41:36.523-07:002011-08-22T23:41:36.523-07:00The 88 was the main gun on the Tiger 1, King Tiger...<i>The 88 was the main gun on the Tiger 1, King Tiger and Jagdpanther armored fighting vehicles, all capable of dominating any Sherman, T-35/85 or JSII Stalin tank they ran across up the end of the war.</i> <br /><br />All manufactured in tiny quantities - under 500 Tiger II's, 1,300 Tiger I's, and 400 JagdPanthers. Germany built about 11,000 StuG III's and IV's, 9,000 Pz IV's, and 6,000 Panthers, which did the bulk of the real world fighting. Only war geeks obsess over the "freaks" - Germany wasted a lot of time and effort on some strange and unproductive projects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70314946490819531022011-08-22T23:30:07.793-07:002011-08-22T23:30:07.793-07:00"I don't know what that's supposed to..."I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I imagine that very few Germans or Japanese looked on the Allies as 'rightful victors'".<br /><br />It's also like Jack Johnson thing. White people simply couldn't believe that the black man was the heavyweight champion of the world. So, they looked for the great white hope. But when Johnson mauled Jim Jeffries and totally humiliated and reduced him to a pile of sorryassness, whites people then knew Johnson was the champ, and the white man had been forever defeated by the negro who was now the alpha male badass. When a people get beat REAL BAD, they really lose heart. And Jack Johnson did to white male pride what B-29s did to Japanese national pride. Japanese were beaten so badly that soon after surrender, most Japanese were relieved than bitter. And Japanese women were lining up to go with American GIs while defeated Japanese males could only watch as wussies. <br /><br />Japanese lost heart when bomb after bomb rained downon Japan. They knew the Great Anglo-American was the most fearsome mofo on the planet... at least until Jews did the Judo move on the wasp and became the new boss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62790829665538376882011-08-22T23:29:25.995-07:002011-08-22T23:29:25.995-07:00The 88mm anti aircraft gun owned the entire theate...<i>The 88mm anti aircraft gun owned the entire theater in an anti tank role in North Africa.</i> <br /><br />I guess you mean "Other than the actual guns mounted in the German tanks, which were basically all 50mm or 75mm. And other than the German anti-tank guns mounted as SP guns - the Sturmgeschütz and Jadgpanzers, which mounted 75mm guns almost exclusively."<br /><br />I believe that one battalion of Tiger tanks saw service in North Africa, and on occasion the anti-aircrat 88's were pressed into service in an anti-tank role. But the majority of Allied AFV's destroyed in Europe and NAfrica were knocked out by guns other than the 88.<br /><br /><br /><i>someone tell me how much guerilla warfare followed in the wake of Strategic Bombing of Germany and Japan</i> <br /><br />Irrelevant. Guerrilla warfare has exactly nothing to do with strategic bombing. There wasn't a lot of guerrilla warfare after Russia took over Poland, but not because Poland was carpet bombed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50293329774833167002011-08-22T23:23:44.163-07:002011-08-22T23:23:44.163-07:00"I don't know what that's supposed to..."I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I imagine that very few Germans or Japanese looked on the Allies as 'rightful victors'".<br /><br />I don't mean it in the moral sense. I mean it like... after a boxing match, the guy who gets whupped real bad admits that the victorious fighter was the 'better man'. Not better morally but better in being BADASS!! <br />Germany and Japan--military and civilians--both got beat so bad that they knew who the new boss was. Germans knew Soviets were not mess with, and Japanese knew Americans really meant business. When the war ended, no one had a heart to lead an insurgency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12400808322454766312011-08-22T19:49:44.081-07:002011-08-22T19:49:44.081-07:00Google Dresden. (It wasn't an A-bomb but was v...<i> Google Dresden. (It wasn't an A-bomb but was vastly murderous white-on-white civilian bombing.)</i><br /><br />The RAF did the larger part of the Dresden bombing and killing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38696138740810810062011-08-22T18:56:02.774-07:002011-08-22T18:56:02.774-07:00""If only we had carpet bombed the North...<i>""If only we had carpet bombed the North Vietnamese, we could have "beaten them into submission" and shortened the Vietnam War. Oh, wait""</i><br /><br />We didn't bomb North Vietnam the way we bombed Germany. Our air strikes in North Vietnam were mostly limited to military targets. We also avoided some obvious targets (their dam system) that could have caused massive civilian casualties.Frednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4852707111701503502011-08-22T18:54:54.825-07:002011-08-22T18:54:54.825-07:00In the discussion about Ostfront war technology th...In the discussion about Ostfront war technology there's a critical factor that gets neglected - intelligence. The "Lucy' spy ring funneling information to the Soviet provided details on Operation Citadel, the '43 Kursk offensive. The Soviets were thoroughly prepared when it eventually came. The Germans on the other hand were completely in the dark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com