tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post3275512207740365027..comments2024-03-15T20:52:26.967-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: The Tunefulness of CrowdsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61281794743192251082013-01-22T05:39:49.474-08:002013-01-22T05:39:49.474-08:00"Even changing from 5 beats per line to 4 sta..."Even changing from 5 beats per line to 4 stands out and lets you know it's meant to evoke something different, like the "Double, double toil and trouble" chant from the witches in Macbeth. It just sounds like it comes from some other world than where the rest of the dialog has come from. (He also switches the beat from the second unit of a foot to the first one.)"<br /><br />Neither Shakespeare or Milton composed that many lines in strict iambic pentameter, which much of the time sounds anodyne and clunky. You'll find that much of their poetry had only four beats to a line - closer to the measure pre-Norman Anglo-Saxon verse. <br /><br />Pope and Dryden did tend to write in strict iambic pentameter, and I suspect that this has much to do with the fact that they're little read today. <br /><br />English poetry is strange - while the actual daughter of the Latin language all devised meters to suit their distinct phonetic qualities, only the English decided to apply antique meters wholly unsuited to the rough-hewn vigour of a Teutonic tongue. Jeff Changnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65486007968002359832013-01-19T19:31:29.635-08:002013-01-19T19:31:29.635-08:00It's a lot easier to "do it" to polk... It's a lot easier to "do it" to polkas than to waltzes. The key is to be able to ignore either the upbeat or the downbeat and treat it as though it were in 4/4 at half the speed. That can be quite pleasant once you get the hang of it. <br /><br /> I learned this growing up in Tinley Park, but having a Polish family on m mother's side from just outside Calumet City. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56032146745932407232013-01-18T20:55:35.313-08:002013-01-18T20:55:35.313-08:00Was the catholic rhythm thing a birth control joke...Was the catholic rhythm thing a birth control joke? You try having sex to polka.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21234734261718194472013-01-18T08:08:18.025-08:002013-01-18T08:08:18.025-08:00The equivalent of part of the crowd lip-synching w...The equivalent of part of the crowd lip-synching when testing for crowd wisdom would be not just taking their answers but asking them to express their confifence in the answer on a 1 to 10 scale.<br /><br />Then the wrinkle would be to find if the 10s who are sure their answer is right, are right. Would the highest level of accuracy come from multiplying everybody's answer by their confidence score or would it work better by adjusting the 10's confidence level to 3 or 4.<br /><br />Basically do loudmouth know it alls actually average knowing more than the quiet types? I have no idea which is why it would be worth doi8ng.neil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-62149421039894039902013-01-18T03:23:55.206-08:002013-01-18T03:23:55.206-08:00I'm happy to see that this was actually studie...I'm happy to see that this was actually studied.<br /><br />I definitely fall into the tone mute category. I've always been a music lover and usually wake up in the morning with a song in my head, but I can't sing to save my life. <br /><br />What fraction of instrumental musicians are tone mute? Now that's an interesting question.Corneliusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39066492520082837412013-01-17T21:12:16.557-08:002013-01-17T21:12:16.557-08:00Eric Clapton has a moderately good sense of timing... Eric Clapton has a moderately good sense of timing as a vocalist, but much better as a guitarist. The two do not seem to be linked as one would assume. Clapton is a first rate rock guitarist: his limitations are those of most rock guitarists, which are their lack of rigorous harmonic training as compared to the better jazz guitarists. (Fellow former Yardbird) Jeff Beck, by comparison has a sense of harmony and an understanding of the structure of the guitar (i.e., where chords and progressions lie on the fretboard, given its tuning in fourths with one strategic major third between the G and B strings, assuming "concert tuning") that is at least as good as that of the average working jazz guitarist. <br /><br /> Jimmy Page cheats: he uses odd open and modal tunings. <br /><br /> My beef with Clapton as a solo performer is that he is a mediocre vocalist as compared with his excellent rock guitar playing. That's also true of, say, Glen Campbell, except that Campbell is also a good songwriter. Clapton is mostly a complete hack at that. For example "Wonderful Tonight" is a cheap and cheesy rifacimento <i>(gee, Professor Oliver, I like that word!)</i> of the far better Jerome Kern warhorse,"The Way You Look Tonight". (Elton John's "Something About the Way You Look Tonight" is also, but not nearly so cheesy.)<br /><br /> Jeff Beck solves these issues by not singing. That hasn't made him nearly as much money, obviously.Darfur Millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3396359186083368752013-01-16T20:11:39.768-08:002013-01-16T20:11:39.768-08:00By the way I didn't mean to imply that either ...By the way I didn't mean to imply that either one of the pair of rhythm anonymouses at 8:16 and 3:00 were unfunny ... especially if they are the same personlgthreadingguidenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87311164152599669592013-01-16T19:39:55.113-08:002013-01-16T19:39:55.113-08:00"Rhythym" is a form of birth control, wh..."Rhythym" is a form of birth control, which does not use methods that physically close off<br />the possibility of transmission of life, but which uses the timing of fertility in rough relation to <br />the female spouse's menstural cycle, and which is <br />considered by some or most Catholics, including "officials", to not be<br />an illicit form of birth control. It gives rise to much unfunny<br />humor among certain types of Catholics and anti-Catholics. lightreadingguidenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66424330500734482552013-01-16T18:46:32.718-08:002013-01-16T18:46:32.718-08:00How different are La Bamba and Stand from Twist an...<i>How different are La Bamba and Stand from Twist and Shout?</i><br /><br />The original "La Bamba" predates "Twist and Shout" of course, but "Twist and Shout" only follows "La Bamba"'s chords and rhythm, while "Stand" goes further, with Stipe essentially singing its guitar solo note-for-note, beat-for-beat. Yay public domain! Let's!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83473479977368063902013-01-16T16:12:00.914-08:002013-01-16T16:12:00.914-08:00I have tried to learn the solo for Crossroads for ...<i>I have tried to learn the solo for Crossroads for years without that much success. But I don't feel bad. I have heard lots of guitarist with more technical skill than myself, and maybe more than Clapton, fail to capture it. </i><br /><br />I read/heard somewhere that Clapton hates that solo because he was off a whole beat, coming in on the second. The damn thing is so random, I find it hard to hear it that way; almost have to force myself to imagine it. I also think the main Crossroads riff is hard to play really well. <br /><br />Thinking out loud, another person I find really hard to figure out is Keith Richards. A good example is his "solo" (really just a chord riff) on Monkey Man.JeremiahJohnbalayanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4046468698249662442013-01-16T15:00:01.321-08:002013-01-16T15:00:01.321-08:00"Not too long ago it was generally true that ...<i>"Not too long ago it was generally true that Catholics had a great deal of trouble with - and from - rhythm."<br /><br />That's just silly. You ever tried to dance a polka without having any rhythm?</i><br /><br />That's not what he meant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48675666107125631342013-01-16T13:57:18.717-08:002013-01-16T13:57:18.717-08:00Clapton does not have rhythm?
Motherless Child: ...Clapton does not have rhythm? <br /><br />Motherless Child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoFKYsRj7Gk<br /><br />And his use of different voices here, dramatic perfection.<br /><br />(This song was selected for purposes exemplary not emotive.)Suburban_elknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86274528958064197602013-01-16T13:02:17.074-08:002013-01-16T13:02:17.074-08:00"while the rhythm is in there, it is hidden i...<i>"while the rhythm is in there, it is hidden in flourishes, runs, and builds"</i><br /><br />a little o/t, but both drumming and guitar in the Who's 'Circles' is magnificent. "flourishes, runs, and builds" is it.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XfGKh-BEuo<br /><br />Is singing ability heritable? My mother sang beautifully, but I'm terribly off key. You rarely seem to find great singing voices in multiple generations, though singer-instrumentalists who've played with the folks - Rufus Wainwright, Eliza Carthy - don't do too badly. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34424165797435048652013-01-16T08:16:40.582-08:002013-01-16T08:16:40.582-08:00"Not too long ago it was generally true that ..."Not too long ago it was generally true that Catholics had a great deal of trouble with - and from - rhythm."<br /><br />That's just silly. You ever tried to dance a polka without having any rhythm?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11482561780813524512013-01-16T06:35:14.349-08:002013-01-16T06:35:14.349-08:00Re: Clapton and rhythm,or the lack thereof, and th...Re: Clapton and rhythm,or the lack thereof, and thoughts on The Who.<br /><br />I play have played guitar in bands since high school. The set list has usually included some of Clapton's stuff, including "Wonderful Tonight."<br /><br />I would agree that compared to, say, Hendrix's "Bold as Love" a song like Clapton's "Sunshine of Your Love" does not have as much, for lack of better word, depth. That being said Clapton's stuff from that era it is still driving and lively. It is just not exceptional. <br /><br />Where Clapton soars is in his phrasing (which is tied to the rhythm but can hide in it) and his tone (the unique color to the notes he plays as noted above). He is also aided by his masterful vibrato, and the great equipment he was using. It's how he puts the notes together that makes him an exceptional guitarist. I have tried to learn the solo for Crossroads for years without that much success. But I don't feel bad. I have heard lots of guitarist with more technical skill than myself, and maybe more than Clapton, fail to capture it. <br /><br />The solo on "Wonderful Tonight," however, not so hard. One time when we were playing out a drunk was all "itsh my burthdays couldya play some Clapshton." So I played "Wonderful Tonight" for him. Yes, sometimes I can be a jerk. <br /><br />For an example of a great rhythm guitarist listen to Pete Townshend. Now, I used to dislike The Who because, for some reason, I found them rhythmically weird. The music was driving, and in time, and Dalrty had an amazing voice, but it was like the rhythm was hiding somewhere daring you to find it. <br /><br />Then, I joined a band whose drummer had actually got in a fight at one point in his life defending the honor of Keith Moon. Really. Anyway, he is an awesome drummer, but I have, on occasion, found his playing to be really distracting because, while the rhythm is in there, it is hidden in flourishes, runs, and builds, sort of the way it can be hidden in the phrasing of a guitar solo. It does not help that the bass player, self taught, with a great ear, also tends to prefer floating bass lines and not locked in ones. Were a trio. Drives me crazy. <br /><br />One day, the drummer and I go to see a documentary on Quadrophrenia. He's very excited about it. At one point, the interviewer asks Pete about Moon's drumming. Basically, Pete states he can't stand that style of drumming, finds it annoying, hard to play along to, and proceeded to do a mock version of Keith's drumming. It was all I could do to keep from cracking up.Just another guy with a 1911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46134781331346379192013-01-15T22:14:55.998-08:002013-01-15T22:14:55.998-08:00Okay, why did I write that Clapton's strumming...Okay, why did I write that Clapton's strumming on "Deserted Cities Of The Heart" is breathtakingly paced?<br /><br />If you play acoustic guitar and have tried to sustain fast rhythmic strumming, you'd know why. It's difficult not only to stay in rhythm, but also to avoid having your forearm muscles tighten so that you're forced to try to relax them while still strumming; and the attempt at relaxing those muscles while playing throws your strum off the rhythm. Another hazard is that during such energetic strumming it's very easy to lose the grip on your pick (especially onstage under hot lights, when you're perspiring like Niagara Falls), so that your pick then either pivots in your grip to a useless angle or depth, or it flips clear out of your fingers. To sustain such strumming involves a coordinated effort of concentration and an act of will not to be thwarted by the tightening of your forearm muscles or the shifting or loss of your pick. It takes a great deal of repeated, sustained practice to be able to execute prolonged rhythmic strumming (try playing one of Richie Havens's fast numbers - same thing). This is why most songs that include fast, continuous strumming often also include passages that allow relief breaks from such strumming.<br /><br />Sorry, ben tillman, I can't speak of the work on "Badge" because it's been ages since I've heard it.<br /><br />On another note, as the Anonymous commenter lamented, I too mourn the increasing absence of Classical music from mass media (and I also rue that Classical music is nowadays too often pitched with some sort of pop culture angle to persuade pop-saturated youngsters to like it and listen to it). To my aging, seasoned ear, most pop is just rubbish ("It's got a good beat, Dick, and you can dance to it, so I give it an 85!") to bump-&-grind to; or pop consists of "See Things MY Way" preachy songs or evermore saccharine Wall Of Sound Big Buildup Ballads. Add the stagey - often "shock" - visuals of pop productions, and it's all about sensation or being/looking "cool" - and to this I find Classical music to be the pleasant and rewarding antithesis.<br /><br />De gustibus non est disputandum, of course.Auntie Analoguenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65647821944802685562013-01-15T21:37:15.879-08:002013-01-15T21:37:15.879-08:00I read once that singing ability is NOT hereditary...I read once that singing ability is NOT hereditary. Is that true? Any speculation why?Foreign Expertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15917546189038049572013-01-15T20:45:59.880-08:002013-01-15T20:45:59.880-08:00it's funny you use "happy birthday" ...it's funny you use "happy birthday" as an easy song to sing. In a music theory sense, it is amazingly complex and it's really odd such a strange song caught on. Strange scale, unresolved tonics etc. It's actually a pretty avante guard song. Singing it used to be an audition test, as just about anyone can approximate it but singing it *right* is truly challengingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40807397167662754482013-01-15T19:51:36.777-08:002013-01-15T19:51:36.777-08:00Eric Clapton did not and does not have trouble wit...<i>Eric Clapton did not and does not have trouble with rhythm: his breathtakingly paced acoustic strumming on "Deserted Cities Of The Heart" will put that notion to rest.</i><br /><br />What about Badge?ben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69188135704713215272013-01-15T19:22:28.261-08:002013-01-15T19:22:28.261-08:00Eric Clapton did not and does not have trouble wit...<i>Eric Clapton did not and does not have trouble with rhythm: his breathtakingly paced acoustic strumming on "Deserted Cities Of The Heart" will put that notion to rest.</i><br /><br />I don't have much interest in Clapton one way or another. However, I never heard of this, so I just went and listened to it. Maybe I missed something, but while I suppose it is competently executed, I didn't hear anything I'd consider "breathtakingly paced" or even rising much above "pedestrian".<br /><br />Maybe you could explain this a little more?Ex Submarine Officernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59637195073500204582013-01-15T19:06:18.953-08:002013-01-15T19:06:18.953-08:00Rhythm is the essence.
If you play any sort of im...Rhythm is the essence.<br /><br />If you play any sort of improvisational music, or even music in general, you quickly learn that it is far better to play a wrong note but with good timing rather than a correct note but with poor timing.<br /><br />True tone deaf people, like true perfect pitch people, are exceedingly rare.<br /><br />A truly tone deaf person could not be able to tell if you played a scale ascending or descending or tell that there is any difference between a scale played ascending first, then descending second.<br /><br />the ability to recognize music precedes the ability to create/express music. This is very similar to language, wherein recognition, listening, reading, always leads being able to get up and speak in real time time. No big mystery there.<br /><br />A little training on rhythm goes a long way with most people. Just getting people to count 1,2,3,4, (for 4/4) or 1,2,3 (for 3/4) is pretty easy when you consciously lead them through it. It doesn't take long before most people figure out where the 1 beat lands in relatively straightforward music.<br /><br />Same with intonation and singing. A little training goes a real long way. What isn't amazing is that some people don't get some aspects of music without any training; rather, it is amazing and significant that so many people do, to a reasonably competent degree, "get" music, whether rhythmically, melodically, w/out any training whatsoever. Suggests that music, rhythm, melody are like sex in that while they are broadly enjoyable in their own right to people, the mechanism/phenomena has a much more critical purpose than merely entertainment/gratificationEx Submarine Officernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9038268234482140702013-01-15T18:56:54.265-08:002013-01-15T18:56:54.265-08:00Not too long ago it was generally true that Cathol...<br />Not too long ago it was generally true that Catholics had a great deal of trouble with - and from - rhythm.<br /><br />Eric Clapton did not and does not have trouble with rhythm: his breathtakingly paced acoustic strumming on "Deserted Cities Of The Heart"<br /> will put that notion to rest.<br /><br />Rhythm is innate but it's also taught & learned, as even the most cursory survey of the hand-clap songs which feature prominently in pre-school and Kindergarten reveals.<br /><br />In my boot camp company there was one recruit who simply could not march in step. For whatever reason this individual was dreadfully uncoordinated, not just in marching, but also in all the other physical exercises, such as the 16-count manual, calisthenics counts, and Drill Under Arms. Literally, then, I've known one human being who could not walk a straight line and simultaneously chew gum...or, actually, perform either one, or the other, of those activities alone without bungling it.<br /><br />There is a great deal more to singing than just pitch and rhythm. Breath control is the single most underappreciated aspect of singing as it affects every element of vocals. Then there's resonation (involving use of seven different elements of the anatomy: not just the larynx, but also the sinuses, chest, cheeks, lips, tongue, &c.), volume, timbre, vibrato, phrasing (which has only a little to do with rhythm; Sinatra, for example, is renowned for his phrasing), interpretation (cerebral and instinctual and all combinations thereof), and several other elements. Then there's microphone technique which, in this age in which almost all music is performed via amplification, is indispensable; go to any karaoke get-together and you'll hear mike technique ranging from pain-provoking nonexistent to astute. <br /><br />Auntie Analoguenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50674164557780884022013-01-15T18:39:43.555-08:002013-01-15T18:39:43.555-08:00How different are La Bamba and Stand from Twist an...How different are La Bamba and Stand from Twist and Shout?Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53710195227137803822013-01-15T18:34:50.562-08:002013-01-15T18:34:50.562-08:00If you think rhythm might be relevant to drawing, ...If you think rhythm might be relevant to drawing, why not talk about it?<br /><br />Rhythm is obviously important to political rhetoric.<br /><br />Some kind of rhythm is important to prose meant to be read silently, but is it the same skill? I have heard descriptions of pictures that talk about pacing, but this seems likely to be even further afield.Douglas Knightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6592341004711815672013-01-15T18:29:43.933-08:002013-01-15T18:29:43.933-08:00On the other hand, I can notice quite well when a ...<i>On the other hand, I can notice quite well when a bit of one song is lifted from another.</i><br /><br />Interesting you should say that, because when you praised "Stand" as your favorite REM song, you didn't mention how its melody blatantly ripped off the guitar riff from "La Bamba," which Los Lobos had remade just 18 months prior.Let's!noreply@blogger.com